Allow me to play Devil's Advocate....

[BLS]

I keep hearing things like "They'll start picking on Huckabee and that will even things out", or "Huck doesn't have any money, and they'll figure him out for the liberal he is", etc, etc.

And while I initially agreed with that line of thinking, something is beginning to bother me more and more (and yes, there is a FINAL point to all of this.....please bear with me).

I do NOT believe in 9/11 conspiracies. I don't believe the Jews run the world, and I don't believe the 'all seeing eye' is part of some global goal of ruling the planet.

But I do believe that Huckabee has been thrust into top-tier status BY the establishment. This has proven to me that there are people/groups out there with TREMENDOUS power and influence. There is NO reason he should be the front runner. He's done NOTHING to seperate himself from the others. He certainly didn't raise the money we have. So you have to ask yourself 'why'?

I believe in one of two scenarios.

1. The Neo Cons haven't been able to push Romney or Rudy down our throats well enough to guarantee a victory vs. Hitlery. Most conservatives won't vote for a Mormon or a liberal in R's clothing. Huckabee is the next logical candidate in order to KEEP Ron Paul from winning. Effectively, they are playing Rudy and Romney against us, by portraying Huckabee as the one 'honest' guy in the mix, essentially diffusing MSM coverage of Ron Paul (who WAS that guy).

2. The establishment wants Hillary to win, and they considered that either Rudy or Romney could actually defeat her, and decided to push a lame duck on everyone. One that would have zero chance against her.

Both scenarios DON'T include Ron Paul.

Before you go off calling me a nutjob kook, ask yourself this:
Has the MSM been fair to Ron Paul?
Would you put it past them to direct the election, or deny the possibility that they have the power to make or break a candidacy?

They are ALL against us. From Sean Hannity right down to Wolf Blitzer.
Sean goes straight at him, Wolf 'acts' like our buddy, but he's really a 'Wolf' in a 'sheeps' clothing.

It's truly US vs. THEM. THe money will be great on the 16th...no doubt.
But I don't think it's going to be enough.

IF.....Ron Paul doesn't do something DRASTIC...and I MEAN Earth Shattering DRASTIC. He doesn't stand a chance.

Thoughts?

[AlexMerced]

Ron Paul just needs to make a big national address after the 16th

[asmartchimp]

It's up to us and the blimp...

[tonyr1988]

I agree with your #1, but also think that they are gearing up for a Rudy/Huckabee ticket. That's what everything is pointing to right now.

[xexkxex]

Ron Paul just needs to make a big national address after the 16th

I was thinking the same thing!

When we blow his projected 12 million out of the water...he needs to let people know that he is here and that he intends to win! ....humbly of course.:D

[rfbz]

Someone told me today that they're building him up only to slam him down just like they did with McCain when he was running in the primary against Bush. I'm not quite sure of the logic behind that tactic, but I'm definitely trying to figure this out myself

I do not think it has anything to do with a strategy against Ron Paul though. The media thinks he will fade away just fine without their help.

[mosquitobite]

I agree with your #1, but also think that they are gearing up for a Rudy/Huckabee ticket. That's what everything is pointing to right now.

I've thought that for a long time. Rudy isn't "socially" conservative enough, and Huckabee just seems too "affiable" for the President side. The Establishment has their P/VP picks and are pushing them hard. They want Rudy as President and know their only shot is along side someone the religious right will support as well. (enter Huckabee)

In the past, this kind of set up by the establishment has always worked. They are not capable of understanding how the internet changes everything

[BLS]

I've thought that for a long time. Rudy isn't "socially" conservative enough, and Huckabee just seems too "affiable" for the President side. The Establishment has their P/VP picks and are pushing them hard. They want Rudy as President and know their only shot is along side someone the religious right will support as well. (enter Huckabee)

In the past, this kind of set up by the establishment has always worked. They are not capable of understanding how the internet changes everything


Good point I hadn't considered.

Even so, I don't think a blimp or even a $10,000,000 Tea Party is going to be enough personally. I think Ron needs to do or say something that will garner him a HUGE audience. What, I have no idea.

[mosquitobite]

Good point I hadn't considered.

Even so, I don't think a blimp or even a $10,000,000 Tea Party is going to be enough personally. I think Ron needs to do or say something that will garner him a HUGE audience. What, I have no idea.

I think it needs to be an infomercial on Dec 17th. :D

[FreedomLover]

I don't think it ever had anything to do with Ron paul.

This is par for the course for the MSM. They want an exciting race, so they build up a candidate, then when they're finished, they do what they do best...knock him/her back down. You could as easily guess that the MSM are trying to present the worst possible republican candidate for the general election, and then make him (huckabee) look like a fool for 6 straight months and hand the nomination to Hitlery.

This type of thing has been going on for years. It has absolutely nothing to do with RP.

[mosquitobite]

I don't think it ever had anything to do with Ron paul.

This is par for the course for the MSM. They want an exciting race, so they build up a candidate, then when they're finished, they do what they do best...knock him/her back down. You could as easily guess that the MSM are trying to present the worst possible republican candidate for the general election, and then make him (huckabee) look like a fool for 6 straight months and hand the nomination to Hitlery.

This type of thing has been going on for years. It has absolutely nothing to do with RP.

I agree. It's nothing to do with Dr Paul. (directly)

It's the GOP/MSM's doing, thus my talk of the "establishment". Neither want Dr Paul as the candidate. The GOP because he's anti-war. The media because he's anti-war (and thus would take votes from the Dems)

Notice how the media has basically stopped talking so much about the war lately? Even on the View - and those women are SO anti-war it's not even funny! There was a brief mention of it, but Dr Paul had to bring it up himself.

[cmc]

Rudy/Huck? That's very possible, but I don't think Romney/McCain/Thompson are going to stand by and let that happen so easily. There will be mud-slinging at Huckabee and he will exposed sooner or later. I'm just hoping that his 15 minutes peaks before the 16th.

[BLS]

I don't think it ever had anything to do with Ron paul.

This is par for the course for the MSM. They want an exciting race, so they build up a candidate, then when they're finished, they do what they do best...knock him/her back down. You could as easily guess that the MSM are trying to present the worst possible republican candidate for the general election, and then make him (huckabee) look like a fool for 6 straight months and hand the nomination to Hitlery.

This type of thing has been going on for years. It has absolutely nothing to do with RP.


I hope you're right. Regardless of the reasons, I still feel RP has to do something drastic.

[Alabama Supporter]

Ron Paul has to do something special to garner the limelight the week before Iowa/New Hampshire. I sure hope he's got some good commercials up his sleeves. (That play on emotion and the mood of the country)

[doronster195]

Personally I just think he needs to win a primary or two to gain support from those who agree with him but don't think he a has a change in winning anything (they don't want to "throw away" their vote).

[EotS]

I think the Huckster is getting early attention because of Iowa, where it appears he'll be a good fit.

Recently saw that Bush has an 80% approval rating in Iowa. 80%!

Huckabee is the closest thing to Bush. Warmongering, big government "conservative" who touts his religion and keeps the farm subsidies coming.

[kevman657]

Are you kidding me? The Republican voters have been looking for someone to run too. They worry about Rudy, they're not trustworthy of Romney, and Thompson's appeal has drastically fallen. That's another thing to note, too. Mike is a former baptist pastor (Christian vote), governor (high ranking), has the best campaign commercial (chuck norris...drew attention), and a good speaker (at the debate you could see how he worded his answers to not specifically address the question but just make sure it sounds good).


I think we fight an uphill battle because of the war issue, however, we are gaining across the polls. We may not plunge to the top but once they see on the day of the New Hampshire primary that Paul had a lot of supporters who were too young to get polled, (no home phone, just cell) they'll realize how bogus those polls were.

[mosquitobite]

I think the Huckster is getting early attention because of Iowa, where it appears he'll be a good fit.

Recently saw that Bush has an 80% approval rating in Iowa. 80%!

Huckabee is the closest thing to Bush. Warmongering, big government "conservative" who touts his religion and keeps the farm subsidies coming.

Yup! My Dad said the other day that he was warming up to Huckabee. I said "You want a George Bush III?"

I then also joked that if he became a Huckabee supporter I'd have to slash his tires on election day. (it was my dad so I could get away with teasing like that ;) )

[mmink15]

I think Huck will lose some steam as he will be the focus of attacks from Romney, Giuliani, and Thompson, possibly McCain too. But the voters he loses will jump to Ron Paul, I think.

[The Plan]

I don't know guys...
I don't think Rudy will make it through the election. The only reason there could possibly be for him to make it all the way to the end is that the people setting him up for the run actually want Hillary to win. There is now way in hell he can beat her, they have to know that. The best chance out of the group of douchebags (Ron excluded of course) to have a still extremely unlikely shot is Huckabee and Romney. I don't think Romney would be able to make it as president because his answers come across like he's reading them from a telepromter. He sounds like the Mittbot 5000, that shit is hard to watch. Though Huckabee is equally full of shit as Romney he doesn't come off as stiff so i think he is probably better equipped to tell us lies on camera than Romney. I think Rudy is a straw man that they built up really quick to knock him down, he never had a chance from the beginning. I've never met one person in my life that is going to vote for Rudy.....not even one. His poll numbers have to be a straight up lie.

Personally they can all kiss my ass because I'm voting for the only real human with a soul left in the entire field....RON PAUL!!! Everybody else is just a Muppet.

[Richandler]

The meda has manipulated public opinion for as long as they've existed. I can't go a single minute watching these highly stylized, so-called news networks with out seeing bias and agenda saturating the words and visuals on the screen or even written down on paper. The media is in control. About a month ago I decided that enough was enough, and I turned off the TV and have vowed to my self not to watch the puke filled garbage these media companies produce. I'm on boycott indefinately. There are better sources of information out there. lewrockwell.com is one of those few places. We just have to make sure we know what we are talking about, and we must go out and educate people. It's as simple as that.

[FreedomLover]

I hope you're right. Regardless of the reasons, I still feel RP has to do something drastic.

If RP hits double digits in the next week in a national poll, or a few state polls, expect a lot more news stories with the heading "Could he win?", "Re-evaluating Ron Paul", or "The case for Ron Paul"

The Media cares about ratings and money first and foremost. And when it comes to politics and how much time they give them, they look at two things in general: Their poll numbers, and candidate's fundraising.

When the media sees the story they think will get viewers and "stir the pot", they go to it. Whether they put some 'spin' on it or not is not important, the fact is they will almost always go for it. They are, at the end of the day, a business. (unfortunately).

[CurtisLow]

Have you read this story?

Huckabee: 'Christian Ticket' Would Help Elect Clinton

Former Gov. Mike Huckabee says he would not seek, nor would accept an invitation to run as president from Christian conservative leaders who are considering such a move if the Republican Party nominates a pro-abortion candidate like Rudy Giuliani.

"No, I think a third party only helps elect Hillary [Clinton]," Huckabee said in an interview with washingtonpost.com. "I don't see that being a good strategy for those who really care about pushing a pro-family, pro-life agenda. If they want to do that, the smart thing to do is coalesce their support around Mike Hucakbee. If they do that, I'll become the nominee, I'll win the White House."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/10/04/huckabee_christian_ticket_woul.html

[Eli]

Ron paul can still bypass the news organizations and go straight to television shows. like he did with jay leno. That's the only thing WE can do to gain him mainstream traction.

[MadOdorMachine]

I keep hearing things like "They'll start picking on Huckabee and that will even things out", or "Huck doesn't have any money, and they'll figure him out for the liberal he is", etc, etc.

And while I initially agreed with that line of thinking, something is beginning to bother me more and more (and yes, there is a FINAL point to all of this.....please bear with me).

I do NOT believe in 9/11 conspiracies. I don't believe the Jews run the world, and I don't believe the 'all seeing eye' is part of some global goal of ruling the planet.

But I do believe that Huckabee has been thrust into top-tier status BY the establishment. This has proven to me that there are people/groups out there with TREMENDOUS power and influence. There is NO reason he should be the front runner. He's done NOTHING to seperate himself from the others. He certainly didn't raise the money we have. So you have to ask yourself 'why'?

I believe in one of two scenarios.

1. The Neo Cons haven't been able to push Romney or Rudy down our throats well enough to guarantee a victory vs. Hitlery. Most conservatives won't vote for a Mormon or a liberal in R's clothing. Huckabee is the next logical candidate in order to KEEP Ron Paul from winning. Effectively, they are playing Rudy and Romney against us, by portraying Huckabee as the one 'honest' guy in the mix, essentially diffusing MSM coverage of Ron Paul (who WAS that guy).

2. The establishment wants Hillary to win, and they considered that either Rudy or Romney could actually defeat her, and decided to push a lame duck on everyone. One that would have zero chance against her.

Both scenarios DON'T include Ron Paul.

Before you go off calling me a nutjob kook, ask yourself this:
Has the MSM been fair to Ron Paul?
Would you put it past them to direct the election, or deny the possibility that they have the power to make or break a candidacy?

They are ALL against us. From Sean Hannity right down to Wolf Blitzer.
Sean goes straight at him, Wolf 'acts' like our buddy, but he's really a 'Wolf' in a 'sheeps' clothing.

It's truly US vs. THEM. THe money will be great on the 16th...no doubt.
But I don't think it's going to be enough.

IF.....Ron Paul doesn't do something DRASTIC...and I MEAN Earth Shattering DRASTIC. He doesn't stand a chance.

Thoughts?

How about the fact that Mike Huckabee has tapped into a religious base that is looking for a representative? Mike Huckabee wasn't put in the top of the polls by the media or neo-cons or any other secret party. He was put there by people like you and me. I understand that he has been so successful because he is very appealing. Unlike Ron Paul though, he doesn't have the message. That is why our grassroots is so much better. Ron Paul's message resonates in what so many of us believe in.

Ron Paul has had it fair with MSM. He has repeatedly failed to capitalize on MSM exposure on several occasions. Since the second debate when he had his argument with Rudy Guliani he has consistantly had worse performance in following debates. He is not agrressive. We know that and can accept it because of the message, but most people see the person, not the message which is why they are flocking to Mike Huckabee. Ron Paul hasn't been able to articulate his views in the debates which is why he is not growing as fast as Huckabee. His presence is online and because of us.

I do think that if Ron Paul gets the nomination he can pull in many Huckabee supporters. As a matter of fact, I think Ron Paul will win the presidency overwhelmingly if he is selected as the front runner. It's a matter of the online translating into real votes though. It really going to take a lot of people, much more than are on this forum to get out and vote in order for him to win. It will come out of left field and surprise us all. It's up to us to get him in. We have to vote and get as many people as possible to vote for him in the primaries as we can. I recommend everyone get involved with a meetup group particularly for 15 Dec. The time to act is now! We can do this!

[davidhperry]

How about the fact that Mike Huckabee has tapped into a religious base that is looking for a representative? Mike Huckabee wasn't put in the top of the polls by the media or neo-cons or any other secret party. He was put there by people like you and me. I understand that he has been so successful because he is very appealing. Unlike Ron Paul though, he doesn't have the message. That is why our grassroots is so much better. Ron Paul's message resonates in what so many of us believe in.

Ron Paul has had it fair with MSM. He has repeatedly failed to capitalize on MSM exposure on several occasions. Since the second debate when he had his argument with Rudy Guliani he has consistantly had worse performance in following debates. He is not agrressive. We know that and can accept it because of the message, but most people see the person, not the message which is why they are flocking to Mike Huckabee. Ron Paul hasn't been able to articulate his views in the debates which is why he is not growing as fast as Huckabee. His presence is online and because of us.

I do think that if Ron Paul gets the nomination he can pull in many Huckabee supporters. As a matter of fact, I think Ron Paul will win the presidency overwhelmingly if he is selected as the front runner. It's a matter of the online translating into real votes though. It really going to take a lot of people, much more than are on this forum to get out and vote in order for him to win. It will come out of left field and surprise us all. It's up to us to get him in. We have to vote and get as many people as possible to vote for him in the primaries as we can. I recommend everyone get involved with a meetup group particularly for 15 Dec. The time to act is now! We can do this!

I think you've got some very good points here. Since Dr. Paul doesn't have an ego, he comes across as not eager enough for some people. That may lead them to believe that he's running to prove a point and not actually win. Hucks comes across as someone who's hungry for it and many people fall for that.

Hopefully Huck will get knocked down a peg or two and the other candidates start opening up on him with both barrels.

[BLS]

THIS is exactly why I keep saying Ron has to do or say something DRASTIC.

[Original_Intent]

I think he will (do something drastic).

I think WE need to quit worrying about Huckabee and just keep getting the message out there.

The media is just trying to get to US, they keep sending out a different guy every month while never giving Ron Paul the time of day except for a few days after he raised an astounding 4.3 million.

Just do not lose faith, keep doing what you are doing, give RP another 4-7 days of huge media by making the 16th amazing.

I think Ron will do anything ethical and within his power to do to win. I think he will win partly due to the message and partly due to his supporters won't accept anything less than victory.

No other candidate has supporters like us. Nobody has our diversity and nobody has our unyielding commitment. Any other candidates supporters would have packed their bags and gone home a long time ago if they had to face the obstacles we have overcome. Everything that doesn't kill us just makes us stronger.

[rfbz]

It would be interesting if the liberal media (unwisely for them but good for us) decided to pump up Ron Paul more in order to disrupt the republican base. I'm almost surprised they're not already doing that. I would think from their point of view, Ron Paul would be a safe candidate to promote since they don't think he has a chance in hell.

[Original_Intent]

Heh it is not GOP vs Dem.

It is anti establishment (Paul, Kucinich, Gravel, possibly Tancredo) vs establishment (everybody else) Gravel is gone, Tancredo is toast, Kucinich is in the penalty box for seeing a UFO. Paul is the only one left for them to beat for the insiders to win (doesn't matter to them which party, although I think HIllary is "their girl".

[kevinblack]

BLS,
Here is the REAL reason Mike has surged:
http://www.afa.net/debate/
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/value-voters-pick-huckabee/

Ron Paul had a fair showing on this, based on his record he had a neutral to fair rating going in and he ended with a neutral to negative outlook after voting No to questions like "would you have saved Schiavo's life if you where president"

Once the value voters decide on a candidate they have a massive old boys type network that distributes this message. The main difference between their network and our internet is that their network includes churches and MSM owners.