I want to contribute, but I'm British

[kingbingo]

I’m British libertarian who was a huge fan of Ron Paul and now Rand Paul, I largely credit Ron Paul with waking me up from being just another cookie cutter conservative and onto the path of libertarianism, his videos and speeches inspired me.


I believe that if a libertarian were elected president of the US it would resonate, particularly in the UK where we consume a lot of US news and media. It could positively influence the British debate.


Now with election coming I would love to be able to contribute to his campaign, but my attempts have been rejected, I understand this is to comply with federal law on the matter. I wondered if anyone knew how I might contribute? (and preferably not just say “send it to me and I’ll do it for you”)

[willwash]

I’m British libertarian who was a huge fan of Ron Paul and now Rand Paul, I largely credit Ron Paul with waking me up from being just another cookie cutter conservative and onto the path of libertarianism, his videos and speeches inspired me.


I believe that if a libertarian were elected president of the US it would resonate, particularly in the UK where we consume a lot of US news and media. It could positively influence the British debate.


Now with election coming I would love to be able to contribute to his campaign, but my attempts have been rejected, I understand this is to comply with federal law on the matter. I wondered if anyone knew how I might contribute? (and preferably not just say “send it to me and I’ll do it for you”)

Bitcoin!

And PS, welcome to the forums

[jbauer]

Lol, ask Hillary, she's figured out how to do it.

And I'm not sure, but I'd say you can probably donate to Randpac?

[kingbingo]

you can probably donate to Randpac?

Just tried, and nope.



Bitcoin!

And PS, welcome to the forums

Thanks.

And I'm not sure sure how bitcoins would help, only options I see are for credit cards.

I could buy a hundred copies of his books, but then Amazon would get most of it, plus my neighbours would be baffled when I started handed out copies of a book about some American dude they have never heard of.

[willwash]

Just tried, and nope.




Thanks.

And I'm not sure sure how bitcoins would help, only options I see are for credit cards.

I could buy a hundred copies of his books, but then Amazon would get most of it, plus my neighbours would be baffled when I started handed out copies of a book about some American dude they have never heard of.

When I go to this page:

https://secure.randpaul.com/2/

Bitcoin is given as a payment option. Then again I am on a US ISP/server

Try logging into the website via Tor with a US IP address.

[thechitowncubs]

When I go to this page:

https://secure.randpaul.com/2/

Bitcoin is given as a payment option. Then again I am on a US ISP/server

Try logging into the website via Tor with a US IP address.

I'm confused. It sounds like this is a British Citizen. It doesn't matter if he uses Bitcoin, it is still in violation of the law?

[tsai3904]

As a foreign citizen, you cannot contribute to Rand's campaign or any PAC.

[jbauer]

I'm confused. It sounds like this is a British Citizen. It doesn't matter if he uses Bitcoin, it is still in violation of the law?

Yeah, I'd say without hiding your identity you probably can't and probably shouldn't. Imagine the $hit storm if it was found out that a Brit donated to Rand.

Are you allowed to buy Tshirts on his site or are they all limited to US addresses as well?

[CaptUSA]

I'm confused. It sounds like this is a British Citizen. It doesn't matter if he uses Bitcoin, it is still in violation of the law?

Yeah, really. The law is dumb, but we shouldn't advocate violating it.


I thought donating to PACs was still an option though. You might want to check out Human Action PAC, if RandPAC isn't letting you donate.

[thoughtomator]

you'll have to double check to be sure but I don't think there's anything stopping you from going on a shopping spree at the Rand store

[kingbingo]

When I go to this page:

https://secure.randpaul.com/2/

Bitcoin is given as a payment option. Then again I am on a US ISP/server

Try logging into the website via Tor with a US IP address.

Good man, thanks.


I'm confused. It sounds like this is a British Citizen. It doesn't matter if he uses Bitcoin, it is still in violation of the law?

You are absolutely right. This whole thread was just exercise in hypothetical conjecture.I have nothing but the highest respect for the vast tomes of law that have accumulated in the west today, and it is inconceivable that I would ever infringe any of them.

Even if the other side has been doing it on an industrial scale, and even if by kick starting a libertarian revolution in the US it might end up helping free occupied Europe too.

So I cross my heart and hope to die that I absolutely won’t use Bitcoins to donate to the embodiment of liberty in the US just because I massively support him.

No siree!

P.S - Yeah, the rand store is maybe the way to go. Got a link for that, I'm guessing this is'nt it: http://www.therandstore.com/

[Jeremy]

When I go to this page:

https://secure.randpaul.com/2/

Bitcoin is given as a payment option. Then again I am on a US ISP/server

Try logging into the website via Tor with a US IP address.

Ummmm no no no no. 1) That's illegal 2) That's not how it works. You have to identify yourself when you donate and if you're not American it will simply be rejected. There is no way for him to contribute financially to the campaign because it's illegal.

[Bergie Bergeron]

The internet. Spread the word, comment on articles, defend Rand.

[thechitowncubs]

Good man, thanks.



You are absolutely right. This whole thread was just exercise in hypothetical conjecture.I have nothing but the highest respect for the vast tomes of law that have accumulated in the west today, and it is inconceivable that I would ever infringe any of them.

Even if the other side has been doing it on an industrial scale, and even if by kick starting a libertarian revolution in the US it might end up helping free occupied Europe too.

So I cross my heart and hope to die that I absolutely won’t use Bitcoins to donate to the embodiment of liberty in the US just because I massively support him.

No siree!

P.S - Yeah, the rand store is maybe the way to go. Got a link for that, I'm guessing this is'nt it: http://www.therandstore.com/

Right on mate!

There are a lot of liberty minded activists in Britain. Charlie Veitch is one that I know off the top of my head. He's gone a little crazy but maybe linking up with people like him would be your best option to create some awareness over there.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Ummmm no no no no. 1) That's illegal 2) That's not how it works. You have to identify yourself when you donate and if you're not American it will simply be rejected. There is no way for him to contribute financially to the campaign because it's illegal.

^^^This!


The internet. Spread the word, comment on articles, defend Rand.

^^^This

And I'm sure there will be grassroots initiatives needing financial support that indirectly help...

[kingbingo]

The internet. Spread the word, comment on articles, defend Rand.

Yeah that’s pretty much what I did for Ron. Although any tips on good websites would be welcome. The only US site I have found I really like is Breitbart and National Review, and both of them have readerships that tend to lean a bit more conventional republican.

[William Tell]

You can't donate to the campaign. If you want to donate to RPF, or some project that may start up here sometime, that's fine.

[Inkblots]

Are you allowed to buy Tshirts on his site or are they all limited to US addresses as well?

I'm curious about this, as well. I'd assume not, but that seems especially silly. Think about it: I could set up my own for-profit store, sell Rand-branded merchandise, including to overseas customers, and then turn around and donate all the profit to a pro-Rand PAC.

[Barrex]

Greetings. I am from Croatia.

Maybe it wold be best to delete this thread. Financial donation are ILLEGAL!!! At least comments that suggest illegal activities (on purpose or by accident) should be deleted. (including this comment because it talks about it)


I'm confused. It sounds like this is a British Citizen. It doesn't matter if he uses Bitcoin, it is still in violation of the law?
Yes.


THIS:

Ummmm no no no no. 1) That's illegal 2) That's not how it works. You have to identify yourself when you donate and if you're not American it will simply be rejected. There is no way for him to contribute financially to the campaign because it's illegal.

you'll have to double check to be sure but I don't think there's anything stopping you from going on a shopping spree at the Rand store



Yeah, I'd say without hiding your identity you probably can't and probably shouldn't. Imagine the $hit storm if it was found out that a Brit donated to Rand.

Are you allowed to buy Tshirts on his site or are they all limited to US addresses as well?

Those are counted as contribution and therefore illegal.(This could be grey area but I dont think it is.)



Yeah that’s pretty much what I did for Ron. Although any tips on good websites would be welcome. The only US site I have found I really like is Breitbart and National Review, and both of them have readerships that tend to lean a bit more conventional republican.

You can volunteer. Please first read FEC rules regarding this.

[mrsat_98]

I’m British libertarian who was a huge fan of Ron Paul and now Rand Paul, I largely credit Ron Paul with waking me up from being just another cookie cutter conservative and onto the path of libertarianism, his videos and speeches inspired me.


I believe that if a libertarian were elected president of the US it would resonate, particularly in the UK where we consume a lot of US news and media. It could positively influence the British debate.


Now with election coming I would love to be able to contribute to his campaign, but my attempts have been rejected, I understand this is to comply with federal law on the matter. I wondered if anyone knew how I might contribute? (and preferably not just say “send it to me and I’ll do it for you”)

Dude , send it to Ed Snowden , I got your back just send a receipt.

[r3volution 3.0]

OP, you cannot legally donate to the campaign or to any PAC, and I would strongly advise against any attempt to circumvent the law.

You can, however, donate to any 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization: e.g. Young Americans For Liberty, Campaign for Liberty, the Mises Institute.

In any event, thanks for your support!

I look forward to the day when President Paul and Prime Minister Farage can meet at 10 Downing for a chat.

[RonPaulMall]

Yeah that’s pretty much what I did for Ron. Although any tips on good websites would be welcome. The only US site I have found I really like is Breitbart and National Review, and both of them have readerships that tend to lean a bit more conventional republican.

You could donate to the Mises Institute.

http://mises.org/giving/now

It is the foundation Murray Rothbard established when he was booted from the Cato Institute. Senior Fellows include Judge Napolitano, Thomas Woods, and Thomas DiLorenzo.

But if you really have your heart set on contributing something "electoral" I'd suggest you just set aside the money and wait. You can't contribute to Rand's campaign or any PAC's because it is illegal under US Election Law. But as we get closer to the campaign, a lot individuals will be doing projects (liberty themed publicity stunts or pieces of art) that probably will be soliciting donations. Wait till one pops up that catches your fancy and contribute. Until then, you can always contribute in the form of sweat by promoting Rand on social media and writing polite, supportive, comments in media articles about Rand.

[Foreigner]

"§ 441e.* Contributions and donations by foreign nationals (a) Prohibition.* It shall be unlawful for— (1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make— (A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election; (B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or (C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 304(f)(3)) (2 U.*S.*C.* § 434(f)(3))" - Source: Title 2, chapter 14, subchapter 1, section 441e (United States Code, Title 2, The Congress (http://www.idea.int/political-finance/sources.cfm#country-US))


That means that contributing in any way for a US political race - even if not to the actual campaign - is illegal, except for volunteering your time. Technically that would also cover projects here on rpf-forums. Technically you could phone bank from home, but I don't think people you don't already know are going to be over-excited by foreigners telling them how to vote.

I would SO donate if it was legal to do so for myself. As for actual help to Rand... I invited the 10 people i know in the US to like him on facebook, and If Rand gets to the general, I will do my best to convince the ca 5 people I know here in Norway with US citizenship to vote for him.

Edit:

You can, however, donate to any 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization: e.g. Young Americans For Liberty, Campaign for Liberty, the Mises Institute.
For real?

[presence]

SMDH



Ummmm no no no no. 1) That's illegal

Funny, massively illegal for a liberty loving brit to donate a few BTC directly to Rand... while every elected president in the US for as long as I can remember has been elected by vast gobs of globalist banker and MIC money which has and continues to fund every avenue of propaganda legally averting the "law"; most namely the evening news.


n a 2009 paper (http://www.boalt.org/bjil/docs/BJIL27.1_Teachout.pdf) that preceded the Citizens United ruling, Teachout estimated that by 2030, a third of all money spent on elections for Senate, Congress, and governorships will come from non-American interests:

Foreign private interests will put substantial money into viral videos about candidates; foreign newspapers will editorialize with an eye to actually influencing elections, not merely expressing opinions; foreign television stations, broadcasting online, will do the same. Foreign unions will fund cross-national phone banking, literature drops, and door-to-door canvassing around issues that are likely to influence elections. Foreign governments will funnel money into organizations that do all of these kinds of electioneering.



“The vast majority of these activities will either be legal or, if illegal, their prohibitions unenforceable,” Teachout concluded.



http://www.wnyc.org/story/181667-explainer-can-foreign-companies-make-political-donations/

[dancjm]

I am also a Brit.

Our role is simple and doesn't involve money:

Defend Liberty.

[orenbus]

My suggestion would be to help fund projects run by grassroots from people that have been in the liberty movement supporting Ron Paul/Rand Paul for some time, have a proven track record, and can be trusted. Some in the grassroots can do a lot with very little and aren't bound by the same rules that the official campaign or PACs would be, 501c non profits would be a good second choice as well.

[r3volution 3.0]

For real?

Yessir. They're considered non-partisan educational organizations. Legally, they have nothing to do with any political campaign.

*Note the recent stories about the Clinton Foundation accepting millions from Saudi Arabia et al. Perfectly legal.

[CaptUSA]

My suggestion would be to help fund projects run by grassroots from people that have been in the liberty movement supporting Ron Paul/Rand Paul for some time, have a proven track record, and can be trusted. Some in the grassroots can do a lot with very little and aren't bound by the same rules that the official campaign or PACs would be, 501c non profits would be a good second choice as well.Great point. When you start to see the ChipIns closer to the primaries, chip in. Volunteers need that for traveling expenses. It is really a great way to give money, too, because it isn't wasted. You are directly helping out someone who is going door-to-door, but also needs to eat. They usually stay at other people's homes, but sometimes getting there costs money.

[orenbus]

And I'm sure there will be grassroots initiatives needing financial support that indirectly help...

+Rep.

[Barrex]

I repeat again that this entire thread is crime in progress :D



The Prohibition
The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) prohibits any foreign national from contributing, donating or spending funds in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly. It is also unlawful to help foreign nationals violate that ban or to solicit, receive or accept contributions or donations from them. Persons who knowingly and willfully engage in these activities may be subject to fines and/or imprisonment.


NO MONEY TRANSFER!

Read this carefully before any of you does anything(I did before I got involved):

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/foreign.shtml (http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/foreign.shtml)


Sincerely,

Your Snitch

P.s.

From now on I am just an observer:
http://xaxor.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/perfectly-timed-pics-moments-before-disaster16.jpg

http://img.phombo.com/img1/photocombo/6774/cache/Disaster_display.jpg


:D

[Inkblots]

Off topic, but seeing a number of British users checking this, I can't resist asking: what do you guys think of UKIP? Are they doing well in your constituency?

[r3volution 3.0]

My suggestion would be to help fund projects run by grassroots from people that have been in the liberty movement supporting Ron Paul/Rand Paul for some time, have a proven track record, and can be trusted. Some in the grassroots can do a lot with very little and aren't bound by the same rules that the official campaign or PACs would be, 501c non profits would be a good second choice as well.

I'd be wary of that Orenbus.

If the grassroots project is supporting a political campaign (as opposed to being "educational" like CFL, LvMI, etc) it's going to be illegal for foreigners to donate.

And the grassroots organizers here in the US would be the ones who get in trouble (USGOV can't reach the foreigners).

[kingbingo]

Great point. When you start to see the ChipIns closer to the primaries, chip in. Volunteers need that for traveling expenses. It is really a great way to give money, too, because it isn't wasted. You are directly helping out someone who is going door-to-door, but also needs to eat. They usually stay at other people's homes, but sometimes getting there costs money.


I love that idea, that is what I will do. I hope this forum will highlight a few well deserving examples nearer the time. Of course I won't be donating to them to campaign. I will be either gifting them money because I like them, or maybe I will hire one of them to proof read a very very short book I'm working on or something.



I repeat again that this entire thread is crime in progress

Stand easy solider. I won't contribute to any camapign so no laws broken. I may gift money to indivduals I like however who are not candidates.


And moreover, is'nt it a load of BS. Obama sends his political team out to Isreal to campaign aganist bibi and all is fine. The Clintons break laws like a TV chef breaks eggs and all is fine. But if I want to do something for the forces of good against evil its made hard.



Off topic, but seeing a number of British users checking this, I can't resist asking: what do you guys think of UKIP? Are they doing well in your constituency?


What do I think of UKIP? Hmm, yeah Okay I suppose. Oh that and the fact I had dinner with Nigel Farrage a few weeks ago and I have been selected to stand as a candidate for parilment in one of the consistencies near me. (I won't win though)


UKIP, and actually Nigel Farrage himself is the closet we have a Ron Paul in this country. There is also a Conservative called Dan Hannan who is just vastly sound, but he is kinda pissing into the wind when it comes to spreading libertarianism in the Conservative party under David Cameron, who we would consider 'a wet' but I think the term you would use is a 'RINO'.

[TheTexan]

You can contribute by voting in the online polls that people post here. It's a little less useful or satisfying as voting in real elections, but every vote counts no matter how small.

[angelatc]

Now with election coming I would love to be able to contribute to his campaign, but my attempts have been rejected, I understand this is to comply with federal law on the matter. I wondered if anyone knew how I might contribute? (and preferably not just say “send it to me and I’ll do it for you”)
You can't.It's a violation of federal law, and you will not be doing him any favors by trying to skirt the law.

[GunnyFreedom]

When I go to this page:

https://secure.randpaul.com/2/

Bitcoin is given as a payment option. Then again I am on a US ISP/server

Try logging into the website via Tor with a US IP address.

Per federal law, every donor must be identified whether payment is made in bitcoin or hot dogs. Foreign donations are strictly illegal, nevermind Hillary gets away with it, Rand will not accept them, and if he ever did that's all you would ever see on MSNBC between now and election day. It's lose-lose all the way around no matter how you slice it.

I wouldn't even pay food and lodging for an independent grassroots volunteer in any visible way considering there are press reporters with agendas who are desperate to hit R's with foreign donations if nothing else to remove that line of attack off of Hillary. Normally you have to treat this subject like refined uranium metal. This year you have to be even more careful. It's never right, good, or legal; but right now it's double-worse than normal. So just don't do it.

[presence]

The Clintons break laws like a TV chef breaks eggs and all is fine.
But if I want to do something for the forces of good against evil its made hard.

lol

[65fastback2+2]

show me the article and section in the constitution where its illegal...

[presence]

foreign governments and corporations are openly spending tens of millions of dollars a year buying influence in Washington by hiring well-connected lobbyists, according to research by the Sunlight Foundation (http://reporting.sunlightfoundation.com/2010/top-players-2009/) and others (http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/pevehouseforeignmoney.pptx) who have examined the filings those lobbyists (https://efile.fara.gov/pls/apex/f?p=171:17:964533656263402::NO:::) have to make to the Justice Department.And some of that money may well be wending its way into politicians' election coffers through the generous campaign contributions those lobbyists routinely make to buy access and reward friends.
"There's pretty clear evidence that foreign money is being used, at least indirectly, to finance U.S. elections,"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/18/foreign-money-campaign-finance-lobbying_n_897189.html?

[presence]

Ways to legally finance a US candidate as a foreign national page 4: Items that are not contributions
http://www.ngklaw.net/files/76258223.pdf

Most noteworthy is "honorarium" for speaking appearance.

[Inkblots]

What do I think of UKIP? Hmm, yeah Okay I suppose. Oh that and the fact I had dinner with Nigel Farage a few weeks ago and I have been selected to stand as a candidate for Parliament in one of the consistencies near me. (I won't win though)

UKIP, and actually Nigel Farage himself is the closest we have to a Ron Paul in this country. There is also a Conservative called Dan Hannan who is just vastly sound, but he is kinda pissing into the wind when it comes to spreading libertarianism in the Conservative party under David Cameron, who we would consider 'a wet' but I think the term you would use is a 'RINO'.

It mystifies me that Hannan is still campaigning for the Tories. Carswell and Reckless are two of his closest friends, and they both came over to UKIP.

Anyway, good for you, getting involved and running for a seat. And when they call you a racist, remind them you're the only party that doesn't want to privilege white Europeans over Africans and Asians when it comes to immigration. Pro-EU progressives hate thinking about that.

[fr33]

show me the article and section in the constitution where its illegal...

hehe, there's people in prison saying that.

[cindy25]

donating to a superpac is one way; buying one of Rand's books is another. voting UKIP is another.

[orenbus]

hehe, there's people in prison saying that.

For arguments sake did a quick search but couldn't find anything, I wonder if anyone associated with a political campaign has actually ever been prosecuted for accepting money from sources in other countries? Or is it like refusing to provide all the answers to the government census, they say the law is in place and if you don't answer you get fined, but no one ever has.

[GunnyFreedom]

For arguments sake did a quick search but couldn't find anything, I wonder if anyone associated with a political campaign has actually ever been prosecuted for accepting money from sources in other countries? Or is it like refusing to provide all the answers to the government census, they say the law is in place and if you don't answer you get fined, but no one ever has.

Yeah, I think it's one of those laws where you only get in trouble if theye don't like you.

[fr33]

For arguments sake did a quick search but couldn't find anything, I wonder if anyone associated with a political campaign has actually ever been prosecuted for accepting money from sources in other countries? Or is it like refusing to provide all the answers to the government census, they say the law is in place and if you don't answer you get fined, but no one ever has.

I didn't mean that for this crime that there are people in prison saying that. Just that there are people in prison pointing to the constitution asking how what they did is illegal.

[GunnyFreedom]

Apparently 22 people were convicted of fraud behind Bill Clinton receiving Chinese money in 1996.

https://www.opencongress.org/wiki/Foreign_Money_in_U.S._Elections


Chinagate

In the years following the presidential election of 1996, the Justice Department investigated allegations that Chinese individuals made financial contributions to the Bill Clinton campaign. The Republican majority of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee investigated and produced a report. Twenty-two people were eventually convicted of fraud.

Washington Post on the Draft Committee Report: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/campfin/stories/cf021098b.htm)

“The draft report also criticizes the DNC's dismantling of its "vetting" systems to check the appropriateness and legality of large donations during the 1996 campaign. While staffers had checked all donations of more than $10,000 during 1992 and all contributions of more than $25,000 in 1994, that program was abandoned during the last campaign, the report says.” "In fact, it appears that the DNC made a decision to operate under a 'system' that would turn a blind eye towards questionable contributions, allowing the DNC to receive large, illegal contributions without any accountability for their receipt in the event they were detected," the report states”


One would assume that some of them are/were in prison.