Is There Such a Thing as a Left-Wing Libertarian?

[BuddyRey]

The reason that I ask is because I consider myself one, but whenever I use the term, I'm laughed at! :D

Here's very specifically what I mean by Left-Wing Libertarian, so you don't go getting the idea that I'm using the term to apply to just any mainstream liberal who fancies the appellation...

Generally, I Describe A Left-Wing Libertarian as someone who is...

1. Aware that the Federal Reserve is a hoax, rejects it, and opposes ANY Central Bank, even a legitimate one.
2. Not disagreeable to a VOLUNTARY income tax, if it were to be levied at a STATE or LOCAL level, and was APPORTIONED!
3. Unabashedly PRO-2nd AMENDMENT, believes, as the T-shirt says, that "Alchohol, Tobbaco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency."
4. Generally populist and isolationist in trade policies, but not expressly opposed to trade agreements that would not be injurious to the American job market or expoitative to foreign workers. Anti-NAFTA, anti-CAFTA, GATT, WTO.
5. Rigidly OPPOSED to Globalization, and a strong supporter of States' Rights and National Sovereignty. Also believes in the validity of national borders, and would NEVER declare Amnesty for illegal immigrants!
6. Believes in environmental regulation for businesses, and anti-trust laws, but supports a responsible free market with possible incentives for small business. No corporate welfare, and an emphasis on corporate responsibility (not just to make a profit)..
7. Believes in Pacifism and non-interventionism, except when directly threatened. NO nation-building!

Questions, thoughts, criticisms, modifications or suggestions are welcome! You think I'm crazy, let me know. Think I'm the son of Satan? Speak up! I hope to get a whole new charter drafted by the end of the week. Hehe...just joking of course.

...or am I?!

[RonPaul4President]

4. ...Anti-NAFTA, anti-CAFTA...

That voids you of the Left-Wing element, IMHO. :D

[BuddyRey]

That voids you of the Left-Wing element, IMHO. :D

Yeah, I'm amazed how many so-called "liberals" sold us out to foreign interests and allowed outsourcing to kill America jobs!

[RonPaul4President]

The people are the foundation of all power. It is taxes enforced by laws that keep Americans imprisoned. It is the taxes WE pay that pay their salaries yet if we do not pay these taxes we are sent to jail. What more does one need to read to see that this is organized crime. You go to work and pay taxes that are illegally demanded, then all 3 branches of government, who's salary WE all pay(except for those illegals that get paid by scum employers under the table), shit on us and laugh about it behind closed doors. Our taxes are the fundamental power of all powers. Without our tax revenues, the government is powerless. Money talks and bs walks...

Patriotism is to government as faith is to religion.

[ShaneC]

As I've stated before, I despise the income tax - but I'd hate it less if I felt the money was being spent with some sort of concern and sound logical reasoning within some sort of legitimate budget.

And I mean that on all levels of government.

[joenaab]

BuddyRey, I can see the "Libertarian" in your post, but where's the "Liberal"? It all sounds Libertarian to me.

I sometimes call myself a Green Libertarian, not that I know much about the Green Party, per se, but that I believe it is constitutionally correct to protect our land, water, air and sea from toxic polluters as part of providing for our national defense.

I also say that I am a "Green Libertarian" on the federal level, but that I am more flexible at the State level when it comes to some form of public or public/private hybrid solution to areas such as education, care for the elderly, transportation, etc., - even a state's right to coin and manage their own money.

[BuddyRey]

BuddyRey, I can see the "Libertarian" in your post, but where's the "Liberal"? It all sounds Libertarian to me.

I sometimes call myself a Green Libertarian, not that I know much about the Green Party, per se, but that I believe it is constitutionally correct to protect our land, water, air and sea from toxic polluters as part of providing for our national defense.

I also say that I am a "Green Libertarian" on the federal level, but that I am more flexible at the State level when it comes to some form of public or public/private hybrid solution to areas such as education, care for the elderly, transportation, etc., - even a state's right to coin and manage their own money.

From a post I wrote on prisonplanet.tv, regarding my differences with Right-Wing Libertarians...

"Well, I actually find a lot of what I've read at reason.com very spot-on. I also have a great amount of respect for most Libertarians and aspire to their general, common-sense pragmatism. The trouble is, I just can't see eye to eye with them on many economic issues. For example, yesterday on Free Talk Live, someone made the case for private businesses having the right to discriminate against potential clients based on race, because the Constitution only holds government accountable to treating everybody as equals, and not private business. This view is thoroughly abhorrent to me, and I'm far from what you'd call a Statist or "Big Government" Liberal. I'm pro-gun, anti-Central bank, and very supportive of States' Rights, but the idea of a completely deregulated economy, wherein large corporations can pollute all they want and form limitless monopolies with impunity, scares the living Hell out of me. I want very much to believe that we can trust a free market, and inasmuch as the free market can exist without doing harm humanity as a whole, I do. But I feel like some Libertarians just take it too far, and almost seem like closet Corporatists, with more regard for impersonal business entities than social justice and the the plight of the "little guy." Please keep in mind however that this is simply my own frank assessment, and I'm not trying to alienate anybody. "

Though I tried to downplay it in the original post, I see absolutely nothing wrong with Welfare and Social Security services and feel like it's a good thing to help the poor, as long as the taxation is fair, responsible, and apportioned. Most Libertarians would consider this statement heresy and immediately blacklist me as a socialist. ;-) I've actually moved a great deal to the right since discovering Ron Paul.

[constituent14]

No Borders!

No Patent Protections!!

Every Person a Government unto Themselves (with larger govt's as mediators)!!!


-oh wait, that's conservative!

[foofighter20x]

Patents and copyrights--i.e. intellectual property--is essential to a conservative and free market position as it fosters creativity and innovation by giving a guarantee to the creator that they shall have exclusive rights to their works for a limited time.

It's kind of like the whole question concerning socialist labor practices. If you do the work, but everyone gets to share the reward of that work, then what incentive is there for you to work hard?

[MsDoodahs]

Just rambling thoughts here...

2. "Voluntary" makes it a donation. Taxation is backed by threat of force.

4. "Isolationist" with respect to trade is detrimental to americans.

5. Opposition to "globalization" is unworkable.

6. Supporting multiple layers of regulation on business is what we have now. This has already killed the goose that laid the golden egg but most have not as of yet come to understand it.

Stalin supported a "reasonable" free market. So did Mao. When your definition of "reasonable" doesn't coincide with the business owners definition of reasonable, what do you do? Pull a gun to force his compliance with YOUR definition of "reasonable?"

There is no such thing as a "reasonable" free market.

One EITHER supports a free market - or one DOES NOT.

MsD

[mdh]

1. Aware that the Federal Reserve is a hoax, rejects it, and opposes ANY Central Bank, even a legitimate one.
2. Not disagreeable to a VOLUNTARY income tax, if it were to be levied at a STATE or LOCAL level, and was APPORTIONED!
3. Unabashedly PRO-2nd AMENDMENT, believes, as the T-shirt says, that "Alchohol, Tobbaco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency."
4. Generally populist and isolationist in trade policies, but not expressly opposed to trade agreements that would not be injurious to the American job market or expoitative to foreign workers. Anti-NAFTA, anti-CAFTA, GATT, WTO.
7. Believes in Pacifism and non-interventionism, except when directly threatened. NO nation-building!

These are pretty much on-message with the majority of libertarian folks - be they LP, CP, or other brands.


5. Rigidly OPPOSED to Globalization, and a strong supporter of States' Rights and National Sovereignty. Also believes in the validity of national borders, and would NEVER declare Amnesty for illegal immigrants!

The last part is a bit contentious. I generally consider open borders to be more left than you're talking here. So on this one, maybe you're "right-of-libertarian-center" or whatever? :p


6. Believes in environmental regulation for businesses, and anti-trust laws, but supports a responsible free market with possible incentives for small business. No corporate welfare, and an emphasis on corporate responsibility (not just to make a profit)..

Touching a little more on what I'd call left in this one in terms of government regulating private entities.

[Shellshock1918]

The term here would be "Liberaltarian"

[constituent14]

I think conservative would be protect your own trade secrets...

what is communistic is expecting everyone else to pay for an agency to enforce your right to capitalize...

my opinnion, if someone else makes it better than you... get to work!
Or better yet, invent something else.

[BuddyRey]

I just remembered another difference I have with Libertarians...I believe wholeheartedly that we should provide universal healthcare for those who can't afford private healthcare. That puts me right over the line into nutty pinko commie territory! :eek:

[Matt Collins]

See this image for the Nolan Chart explanation of our political "spectrum":
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=10&e=10 (http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=10&e=10)

[Bradley in DC]

People come to libertarianism for all different reasons, many of them from the left. I've met many libertarians who have anti-war, anti-drug war, anti-special corporate favors, etc., as their motivating issues.

[angrydragon]

Well buddy, it depends on how you look at the issue. Do you want everyone else to pay for universal health care through government via taxation? If so, that's socialism.

If it's through the market and charities, then that happens via freedom and freedom of taxation. Once government is phased out of health care, prices will drop. Doctors and hospitals will offer lower costing services or even for free to those that are poor, as they did before the government involvement in health care. It's been proven that the less taxes there are, the more charitable donations are given by people.

Like Dr. Paul said, with Medicare and Medicaid, hospitals and doctors charge the maximum amount of money, which raise the cost of care for everyone. Before government involvement, they charged a minimum amount, and free to those who couldn't afford the minimum. I think someone on the forum here did the numbers.

You can also get rid of the monopoly doctors have to give prescriptions for less severe illnesses and have nurses tend to these needs.

[constituent14]

an important fact to note...

No one, no party, no faction is promising anyone Universal Healthcare, what they are promising in Universal (i.e. mandatory) Health Insurance (the reason why we're in this boat in the first place) Coverage. Look at Obama's platform, he says it himself, listen to his speeches. He says, "we need to make sure we have a situation where everyone is covered (something along these lines). What he doesn't say is, "we need to make sure that Insurance companies are no longer allowed to peddle extortion in this fine nation."

[johnrocks]

I heard Ron Paul just a few days ago say something like(not quoting here) it is not a liberal vs. conservative when you follow the Constitution. Liberal leaning people will appreciate his stand maybe on the Patriot Act more than a conservative will for example but a conservative (like me) loves the idea of a smaller govt. and both ends of the spectrum agree on the War in Iraq and his foreign policy, so I think it can be a net win for all!!

[LibertyEagle]

Though I tried to downplay it in the original post, I see absolutely nothing wrong with Welfare and Social Security services and feel like it's a good thing to help the poor, as long as the taxation is fair, responsible, and apportioned.

Well, it sounds "feel good", but what right does the government have to take by force the money or possessions of one person and give it to another? When an individual attempts to do that to another, they get thrown in jail. Why is government different?

If we want to help less fortunate people, we all have the duty (IMO) to use our own free will to help them directly or by donating to charities and churches, so they can help them. But again, what right does government have to force me at the point of a gun to hand over my money to another?

As far as SS is concerned... don't you think the vast majority of us could invest our money much better than giving it to government and expecting them to do it? The Social Security system is bankrupt, because the people we entrusted with our money, who told us we HAD TO fork over our hard earned money to them for safekeeping, robbed the till. In other words, they SPENT all the money. Again, if you opened your employers safe and "borrowed" all the money and left a little IOU in there, what do you think would happen to you? Why is government exempt? They stole our money!

You've probably read this before, but just in case you or someone else has not, this article by Davy Crockett called "Not Yours to Give", speaks to this issue of whether government has the right to steal from one and give to another.

http://www.house.gov/paul/nytg.htm