Congress Demands War in Ukraine!

[Suzanimal]

Just weeks after a European-brokered ceasefire greatly reduced the violence in Ukraine, the US House of Representatives today takes a big step toward re-igniting -- and expanding -- the bloody civil war.

A Resolution, "Calling on the President to provide Ukraine with military assistance to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity," stealthily made its way to the House Floor today without having been debated in the relevant House Committees and without even being given a bill number before appearing on the Floor!

Now titled H. Res. 162, the bill demands that President Obama send lethal military equipment to the US-backed government in Kiev and makes it clear that the weapons are to be used to take military action to return Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine to Kiev's rule.

Congress wants a war in Ukraine and will not settle for a ceasefire!

The real world effect of this Resolution must be made clear: The US Congress is giving Kiev the green light to begin a war with Russia, with the implicit guarantee of US backing. This is moral hazard on steroids and could well spark World War III.

The Resolution conveniently ignores that the current crisis in Ukraine was ignited by the US-backed coup which overthrew the elected government of Viktor Yanukovych. The secession of Crimea and eastern Ukraine were a reaction to the illegal coup engineered by US officials such as Victoria Nuland and Geoff Pyatt. Congress instead acts as if one morning the Russians woke up and decided to invade Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

There is no mention at all of US backing for the coup -- or even that a coup took place!

...

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/march/23/congress-demands-war-in-ukraine/

[Natural Citizen]

Good post, Suzanimal. Nobody is paying attention to this stuff anymore. We should.

Ceasefire never really happened, though. Still have tanks blasting over there.

Heh. Check this out. Nothing like putting weapons on the hands of children and taking them for happy tank rides to get the propaganda started...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_HUIOTaXtg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXIwxEhFCqE

[charrob]

Here's (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2015/roll131.xml)the roll call votes:


H RES 162 2/3 YEA-AND-NAY 23-Mar-2015 7:08 PM
QUESTION: On Motion to Suspend the Rules and Agree
BILL TITLE: Calling on the President to provide Ukraine with military assistance to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity.


Republican
Yeas - 214
Nays - 10
NV - 20


Democrat
Yeas - 134
Nays - 38
NV - 16


TOTALS
Yeas - 348
Nays - 48
NV - 36





---- NAYS 48 ---

Amash
Beyer
Bonamici
Capuano
Chu, Judy
Clark (MA)
Clarke (NY)
Clawson (FL)
Conyers
DesJarlais
Duncan (TN)
Edwards
Ellison
Farr
Frankel (FL)
Fudge
Grijalva
Hahn
Honda
Huelskamp
Huffman
Johnson (GA)
Johnson, E. B.
Jones
Lawrence
Lee
Lewis
Loebsack
Lowenthal
Massie
McGovern
Meeks
Moore
Mulvaney
Nadler
Nolan
O'Rourke
Pocan
Posey
Rohrabacher
Schakowsky
Schrader
Speier
Takano
Tsongas
Waters, Maxine
Watson Coleman
Welch





---- NOT VOTING 36 ---

Bishop (UT)
Blumenauer
Boyle, Brendan F.
Brown (FL)
Buchanan
Chaffetz
Cohen
Davis, Danny
Doyle, Michael F.
Duncan (SC)
Garamendi
Granger
Graves (MO)
Gutiérrez
Hinojosa
Hultgren
King (IA)
Knight
Labrador
Lipinski
Love
McClintock
Payne
Pompeo
Richmond
Roe (TN)
Rogers (AL)
Roskam
Ruiz
Rush
Ryan (OH)
Smith (WA)
Stewart
Walberg
Walorski
Wilson (SC)





---- YEAS 348 ---


Abraham
Adams
Aderholt
Aguilar
Allen
Amodei
Ashford
Babin
Barletta
Barr
Barton
Bass
Beatty
Becerra
Benishek
Bera
Bilirakis
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (MI)
Black
Blackburn
Blum
Bost
Boustany
Brady (PA)
Brady (TX)
Brat
Bridenstine
Brooks (AL)
Brooks (IN)
Brownley (CA)
Buck
Bucshon
Burgess
Bustos
Butterfield
Byrne
Calvert
Capps
Cárdenas
Carney
Carson (IN)
Carter (GA)
Carter (TX)
Cartwright
Castor (FL)
Castro (TX)
Chabot
Cicilline
Clay
Cleaver
Clyburn
Coffman
Cole
Collins (GA)
Collins (NY)
Comstock
Conaway
Connolly
Cook
Cooper
Costa
Costello (PA)
Courtney
Cramer
Crawford
Crenshaw
Crowley
Cuellar
Culberson
Cummings
Curbelo (FL)
Davis (CA)
Davis, Rodney
DeFazio
DeGette
Delaney
DeLauro
DelBene
Denham
Dent
DeSantis
DeSaulnier
Deutch
Diaz-Balart
Dingell
Doggett
Dold
Duckworth
Duffy
Ellmers (NC)
Emmer (MN)
Engel
Eshoo
Esty
Farenthold
Fattah
Fincher
Fitzpatrick
Fleischmann
Fleming
Flores
Forbes
Fortenberry
Foster
Foxx
Franks (AZ)
Frelinghuysen
Gabbard
Gallego
Garrett
Gibbs
Gibson
Gohmert
Goodlatte
Gosar
Gowdy
Graham
Graves (GA)
Graves (LA)
Grayson
Green, Al
Green, Gene
Griffith
Grothman
Guinta
Guthrie
Hanna
Hardy
Harper
Harris
Hartzler
Hastings
Heck (NV)
Heck (WA)
Hensarling
Herrera Beutler
Hice, Jody B.
Higgins
Hill
Himes
Holding
Hoyer
Hudson
Huizenga (MI)
Hunter
Hurd (TX)
Hurt (VA)
Israel
Issa
Jackson Lee
Jeffries
Jenkins (KS)
Jenkins (WV)
Johnson (OH)
Johnson, Sam
Jolly
Jordan
Joyce
Kaptur
Katko
Keating
Kelly (IL)
Kelly (PA)
Kennedy
Kildee
Kilmer
Kind
King (NY)
Kinzinger (IL)
Kirkpatrick
Kline
Kuster
LaMalfa
Lamborn
Lance
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Latta
Levin
Lieu, Ted
LoBiondo
Lofgren
Long
Loudermilk
Lowey
Lucas
Luetkemeyer
Lujan Grisham (NM)
Luján, Ben Ray (NM)
Lummis
Lynch
MacArthur
Maloney, Carolyn
Maloney, Sean
Marchant
Marino
Matsui
McCarthy
McCaul
McCollum
McDermott
McHenry
McKinley
McMorris Rodgers
McNerney
McSally
Meadows
Meehan
Meng
Messer
Mica
Miller (FL)
Miller (MI)
Moolenaar
Mooney (WV)
Moulton
Mullin
Murphy (FL)
Murphy (PA)
Napolitano
Neal
Neugebauer
Newhouse
Noem
Norcross
Nugent
Nunes
Olson
Palazzo
Pallone
Palmer
Pascrell
Paulsen
Pearce
Pelosi
Perlmutter
Perry
Peters
Peterson
Pingree
Pittenger
Pitts
Poe (TX)
Poliquin
Polis
Price (NC)
Price, Tom
Quigley
Rangel
Ratcliffe
Reed
Reichert
Renacci
Ribble
Rice (NY)
Rice (SC)
Rigell
Roby
Rogers (KY)
Rokita
Rooney (FL)
Ros-Lehtinen
Ross
Rothfus
Rouzer
Roybal-Allard
Royce
Ruppersberger
Russell
Ryan (WI)
Salmon
Sánchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Sanford
Sarbanes
Scalise
Schiff
Schock
Schweikert
Scott (VA)
Scott, Austin
Scott, David
Sensenbrenner
Serrano
Sessions
Sewell (AL)
Sherman
Shimkus
Shuster
Simpson
Sinema
Sires
Slaughter
Smith (MO)
Smith (NE)
Smith (NJ)
Smith (TX)
Stefanik
Stivers
Stutzman
Swalwell (CA)
Takai
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Thompson (PA)
Thornberry
Tiberi
Tipton
Titus
Tonko
Torres
Trott
Turner
Upton
Valadao
Van Hollen
Vargas
Veasey
Vela
Velázquez
Visclosky
Wagner
Walden
Walker
Walters, Mimi
Walz
Wasserman Schultz
Weber (TX)
Webster (FL)
Wenstrup
Westerman
Westmoreland
Whitfield
Williams
Wilson (FL)
Wittman
Womack
Woodall
Yarmuth
Yoder
Yoho
Young (AK)
Young (IA)
Young (IN)
Zeldin
Zinke

[Brian4Liberty]

So we can probably thank Boehner for sneaking this through?

[Ronin Truth]

Give 'em guns and send 'em over.

[Brian4Liberty]

Sanford voted yes?

[Brian4Liberty]

Resolved,
That the House of Representatives strongly
1
urges the President to fully and immediately exercise the
2
authorities provided by Congress to provide Ukraine with
3
lethal defensive weapon systems to enhance the ability of
4
the people of Ukraine to defend their sovereign territory
5
from the unprovoked and continuing aggression of the
6
Russian Federation.

Great idea. Let's put some more anti-aircraft missiles into a conflict that has already shot down a passenger airliner!

[AuH20]

We're not going broke fast enough for my liking.

[pcosmar]

Great idea. Let's put some more anti-aircraft missiles into a conflict that has already shot down a passenger airliner!

Yeah,,

As if Ukraine does not have an Arms industry. :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Defense_Industry_%28company%29

[phill4paul]

Why is, under U.S. law, that if I give a gun to someone, with knowledge that they will commit murder, I can be charged with murder? And yet, our government can give guns to someone, with knowledge that they will be used in war, but not have a resolution to go to war?

[Cabal]

Why is, under U.S. law, that if I give a gun to someone, with knowledge that they will commit murder, I can be charged with murder? And yet, our government can give guns to someone, with knowledge that they will be used in war, but not have a resolution to go to war?

You answered your own question.

[phill4paul]

You answered your own question.

True. It was rhetorically scripted. Guilty as charged. Some pigs....

[jllundqu]

Amash keeping it real.... :cool:

[AuH20]

Rohrabacher for the win.

[Brian4Liberty]

Why is, under U.S. law, that if I give a gun to someone, with knowledge that they will commit murder, I can be charged with murder? And yet, our government can give guns to someone, with knowledge that they will be used in war, but not have a resolution to go to war?

That raises interesting questions. Some people want everyone to have access to weapons. Some people only want non-aggressors to have weapons (i.e. non-criminals).

So supplying weapons to a known aggressor, does that have any civil or criminal liability?

The Ukrainian government is the known aggressor in this case. They have initiated and continue to use violence against their own population.

We can compare this to the Kurds, where ISIS is the known aggressor, and the Kurds are defending themselves.

And of course there is always the taxpayer's interest. Is this about selling or giving away arms? Some people are advocating that weapons be sold to the Kurds for self-defense.

In the case of the Ukraine, this is a giveaway on the backs of the US taxpayers. Don't you all feel generous today?


Whereas Congress provided the President with the authoriza-
tion and budgetary resources to provide Ukraine with
military assistance

[alucard13mm]

I got a question. How come some congressmen can abstain or not vote? What is the point of their job? But i guess w are better off if they all dont vote. Hahaha

[phill4paul]

That raises interesting questions. Some people want everyone to have access to weapons. Some people only want non-aggressors to have weapons (i.e. non-criminals).

So supplying weapons to a known aggressor, does that have any civil or criminal liability?

The Ukrainian government is the known aggressor in this case. They have initiated and continue to use violence against their own population.

We can compare this to the Kurds, where ISIS is the known aggressor, and the Kurds are defending themselves.

And of course there is always the taxpayer's interest. Is this about selling or giving away arms? Some people are advocating that weapons be sold to the Kurds for self-defense.

In the case of the Ukraine, this is a giveaway on the backs of the US taxpayers. Don't you all feel generous today?

No I don't feel generous. And based on my quoted post would I not also be guilty of murder by contributing to the purchase of a gun in which a murder was committed?

[Brian4Liberty]

I got a question. How come some congressmen can abstain or not vote? What is the point of their job? But i guess w are better off if they all dont vote. Hahaha

I believe that this was intentionally rushed through such that some people were out of the room.

[Natural Citizen]

I believe that this was intentionally rushed through such that some people were out of the room.

TPP is still out there. I think that was is going down over there is a relevant aspect to that screed.

[Cleaner44]

So the Ukrainian annual budget looks like this:
Roads....................$50 Million
Bridges..................$40 Million
Libraries.................$10 Million
National Defense......U.S. Government

Must be nice to have people on different continents paying for your military needs. I wish we had an ally that would do that for our country... I'm looking at you Israel.

[ord33]

Good to see Congressman Duncan (TN) voting against this. He was one of the few Republicans voting against the Iraq war as well.