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View Full Version : A 21-year-old who's refusing to pay her student loans compares her cause to Rosa Parks' fight




aGameOfThrones
03-17-2015, 07:08 PM
Mallory Heiney, a 21-year-old former student of the now-defunct Everest College, is part of a group of students refusing to pay back their student loans.

Heiney wrote an op-ed article in The Washington Post in which she described the lies Everest allegedly told her as well as the insufficient education she says she received.

Heiney called Everest a "debt trap." When she explained to her adviser that she couldn't afford student-loan payments while in school, she was assured she could defer the payments on her $24,000 in student loans until post-graduation, according to her article.

That ended up being untrue, she said. Heiney said she was on the hook to start paying interest payments on her loans two months into her program.

The program also allegedly failed to provide her with a quality education. She said her teachers did little more than read aloud from textbooks, and she was unaware of basic concepts required to pass her nursing licensing exam. She said she was able to pass only by "spending hours researching the test questions online and watching YouTube videos."

Heiney and 15 other students who attended the Corinthian College system have banded together to fight what they describe as predatory student-loan tactics by the financial aid offices and a failure to provide quality education.

The members of the group, referred to as the Corinthian 15, feel justified in their refusal to pay back their loans. They believe they are fighting for students everywhere who are manipulated by unfair university practices and are riddled with student loan debt as a result.

"In 1955, Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a bus," Heiney wrote in her article. "This soon led to the revolutionary Montgomery bus boycott. If those who came before us can take a stand in the face of persecution, harassment, beatings, imprisonment and even death, I will certainly stand in the face of wage garnishment and a tarnished credit report."

Prior to 2014, Corinthian Colleges Inc. was a network of more than 100 schools and one of the largest for-profit college companies in the US. But numerous investigations and lawsuits alleging wrongdoing against the company rapidly decreased its size. In July 2014, an agreement with the US Department of Education (DOE) forced Corinthian to sell 85 of its schools and close another 12.

After litigation was brought against the company and many of the colleges closed, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) and the DOE worked together to secure $480 million in debt relief to students of Corinthian.

"These consumers were lured into high-cost loans destined to default, and then targeted with aggressive debt collection tactics. We will be vigilant to ensure that consumers receive this important relief and that others are protected in the for-profit college industry," Richard Cordray, director of the CFPB, said in a statement.

But that relief aid covers only the private loan debt that students borrowed from the school. Any federal loan debt that students borrowed has not been waived.

The Corinthian 15 cite The Higher Education Act of 1965 in defense of their refusal to pay back the entirety of their student-loan debt, saying that students whose schools have closed are allowed to withdraw and have their loans discharged.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mallory-heiney-writes-in-the-washington-post-she-isnt-paying-back-her-student-debt-2015-3#ixzz3UhAMVtgA

kcchiefs6465
03-17-2015, 07:29 PM
Been saying that for years.

Pimp debt to kids.

Funny about the Youtube comment. Said about the same thing not long ago. Not that depending on the specifics of the case, she shouldn't pay back what was borrowed.

Half hope they simply pay all the loans back, the currency collapses as the result, and peace is attained. Though in actuality they'll simply use that to usher in an even worse socialist despot. Sigh.

People need to talk to their children.

CPUd
03-17-2015, 09:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJl0XuDKSjc

Related:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?469696-Students-refusing-to-pay-their-federal-loans-wrote-to-the-Department-of-Education
https://debtcollective.org/studentstrike

euphemia
03-17-2015, 09:48 PM
Comparable to Rosa Parks? Yeah, that's the same. Clearly she is right. Her taxpayer-funded education included no history classes at all.

Suzanimal
03-17-2015, 10:04 PM
"In 1955, Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a bus," Heiney wrote in her article. "This soon led to the revolutionary Montgomery bus boycott. If those who came before us can take a stand in the face of persecution, harassment, beatings, imprisonment and even death, I will certainly stand in the face of wage garnishment and a tarnished credit report."

That sounds like something from The Onion.

2young2vote
03-18-2015, 12:00 AM
I'm refusing to pay my student loans because Lincoln fought the good fight.

The Free Hornet
03-18-2015, 12:12 AM
Comparable to Rosa Parks? Yeah, that's the same. Clearly she is right. Her taxpayer-funded education included no history classes at all.

She stated clearly and unambiguously that Rosa Parks suffered far worse than a poor FICA score (or words to that effect ... ).

heavenlyboy34
03-18-2015, 12:18 AM
Been saying that for years.

Pimp debt to kids.

Funny about the Youtube comment. Said about the same thing not long ago. Not that depending on the specifics of the case, she shouldn't pay back what was borrowed.

Half hope they simply pay all the loans back, the currency collapses as the result, and peace is attained. Though in actuality they'll simply use that to usher in an even worse socialist despot. Sigh.

People need to talk to their children.
I really wish I had known someone as wise about this sort of thing as you are when I was 18. Would've saved me a helluva lot of money and headaches and allowed me to get education instead of schooling.

amy31416
03-18-2015, 05:49 AM
Heiney. :D !!!!!

alucard13mm
03-18-2015, 06:44 AM
What a dumbo... not researching enough about the college she is attending. Probably thought it was an easy shortcut.

However, i will commend her if she passed her nursing (probably not RN) exam by researching and watching nursing youtube videos. If only she researched the school just as hard.

Acala
03-18-2015, 08:18 AM
Almost everything important to civilization has become a scam in the USA. Education is among the worst. Government subsidy in the form of grants and loans has driven the cost of education so high that students now NEED grants and loans to afford it. Catching young people in the web of debt and government dependence before they are old enough to have a clue about what they are doing is evil. I hope they ALL stop paying and break the system.

euphemia
03-18-2015, 08:31 AM
It's not a right to go to college for free. It's also not a right to borrow money for anything without paying it back. I agree if they don't want to pay the school for what happened, but they have to pay back the loans. It's a risk they took and they are now obligated.

aGameOfThrones
03-18-2015, 08:34 AM
Almost everything important to civilization has become a scam in the USA. Education is among the worst. Government subsidy in the form of grants and loans has driven the cost of education so high that students now NEED grants and loans to afford it. Catching young people in the web of debt and government dependence before they are old enough to have a clue about what they are doing is evil. I hope they ALL stop paying and break the system.



I agree.

asurfaholic
03-18-2015, 08:59 AM
I got flamed last time a thread on this topic came up, and I'm willing to take it again.

This girl is no better than a thug from the streets who waits until the night to steal your belongings. Refusing to pay your loan back is stealing and has no place in a free society. If she feels she has been wronged by the school she attended, she should take the matter into a civil court against the school.

With the number of students claiming the same wrongdoing they should qualify for a class action lawsuit. Get it classaction lawsuit?!

Whether she was wronged or not is irrelevant, two wrongs don't make a right, especially when she is robbing joe because mike robbed her.

She needs to pay up or take the fight to where it belongs.

Vanguard101
03-18-2015, 12:58 PM
If you take out a loan, you have to pay it back...


This has nothing to do with Rosa Parks...

Dr.3D
03-18-2015, 01:10 PM
People need to talk to their children.
I didn't know my sons took out student loans till they told me they were having a tough time paying them back.

I believe, children need to talk to their parents. If they had asked me about doing such things, I would have told them not to.

Anti Federalist
03-18-2015, 01:27 PM
Almost everything important to civilization has become a scam in the USA. Education is among the worst. Government subsidy in the form of grants and loans has driven the cost of education so high that students now NEED grants and loans to afford it. Catching young people in the web of debt and government dependence before they are old enough to have a clue about what they are doing is evil. I hope they ALL stop paying and break the system.

This.

Acala
03-18-2015, 01:45 PM
. Refusing to pay your loan back is stealing and has no place in a free society.

No, it isn't. Refusing to pay your loan back is a breach of contract. It is not stealing, it is not a crime, it is not even considered a legal wrong, like a tort.There is even a very respectable school of thought in legal economics that makes a compelling argument that breach of contract when the deal no longer makes sense makes for efficient allocation of resources in the marketplace.

Claiming that you were damaged by a breach of contract is a CIVIL action, not criminal, and the remedy is a judgment for damages, not punishment for the borrower. However, it is hard to get damages paid so almost everyone who loans money has it secured with collateral, which is foreclosed or repossesed and then everyone walks away from the deal. Nobody goes to jail when they stop paying their car loan or mortgage because not re-paying your loan is NOT stealing.

Only the government is stupid enough to make loans with no collateral. And if the borrower doesn't pay it back, that's tough for the stupid lender and the stupid taxpayers that approved the program of making stupid loans. Maybe a massive default will get the taxpayers to wise up. But I doubt it.

By way of full disclosure, I did not use student loans from the government for my education. I borrowed from my family and paid them back. But university students now pay more just for books than I paid for tuition! It is a scam and students are getting screwed.

Anyway, what difference does it make to any of you if they pay back the money? Its not like the governemt is going to give you a rebate on your taxes. They will just spend the money on killing people or give it to the crony-capitalists. Every penny that stays in the hands of the people rather than going into the coffers of government is a blessing.

The Free Hornet
03-18-2015, 02:30 PM
This girl is no better than a thug from the streets who waits until the night to steal your belongings. Refusing to pay your loan back is stealing and has no place in a free society. If she feels she has been wronged by the school she attended, she should take the matter into a civil court against the school.

You left out a couple of lawsuit parties:

1) Federal student loan program (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Direct_Student_Loan_Program)

2) The state in question (licensing of medical professionals)


Refusing to pay your loan back is stealing and has no place in a free society.

You're redefining terms here. I could call it lying, but then I'd be the redefiner! Anywho, if the lender feels they have been wronged by the girl in question, they can take the matter into a civil court against her. Undoubtably, you agree.

PaulConventionWV
03-18-2015, 02:35 PM
Where's that gif of Ron Paul shaking his head at McCain?

Anti Federalist
03-18-2015, 02:43 PM
Where's that gif of Ron Paul shaking his head at McCain?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/customavatars/avatar660_1.gif

Krugminator2
03-18-2015, 04:20 PM
Anyway, what difference does it make to any of you if they pay back the money? Its not like the governemt is going to give you a rebate on your taxes. They will just spend the money on killing people or give it to the crony-capitalists. Every penny that stays in the hands of the people rather than going into the coffers of government is a blessing.

That is actually completely wrong and not how government spending works. In a fiat monetary system, if government wants to spend money they will almost irrespective of taxes collected. There isn't a constrained pool of money like you would have on gold standard. If you don't pay your debts, you are stealing from everyone else in the form of devalued currency.

Acala
03-18-2015, 04:39 PM
That is actually completely wrong and not how government spending works. In a fiat monetary system, if government wants to spend money they will almost irrespective of taxes collected. There isn't a constrained pool of money like you would have on gold standard. If you don't pay your debts, you are stealing from everyone else in the form of devalued currency.

I have news for you, there is no way the currency is not going to be destroyed by inflation. It is hard to say when, but there is no question that the government will continue to spend money until the money is worthless. So why should I care if some of the money stays in the hands of students as opposed to being transferred into the hands of the crony-capitalists who get most of the government largesse? The re-payment of student loans will not even slow down deficit spending. So, no, it really will not accelerate the devaluation of the currency.

Krugminator2
03-18-2015, 05:41 PM
I have news for you, there is no way the currency is not going to be destroyed by inflation. It is hard to say when, but there is no question that the government will continue to spend money until the money is worthless. So why should I care if some of the money stays in the hands of students as opposed to being transferred into the hands of the crony-capitalists who get most of the government largesse? The re-payment of student loans will not even slow down deficit spending. So, no, it really will not accelerate the devaluation of the currency.

You didn't understand what I wrote.

Almost everything you said about crony capitalists and deficits is irrelevant to student loan repayment. Not paying a student loan is a tax on me and it is stealing from me and anyone who holds dollars. It isn't just some issue between the government and the person defaulting.
.
Think about it this way. Nothing is free. The bill is either paid by taxes or inflation The university got the tuition money in first place. They have been paid. Someone ultimately has to be tied to money that got paid to the university. If the student loan doesn't get paid back by the person defaulting, then everyone else ends up being the one who picked up the bill.

kcchiefs6465
03-18-2015, 05:47 PM
I didn't know my sons took out student loans till they told me they were having a tough time paying them back.

I believe, children need to talk to their parents. If they had asked me about doing such things, I would have told them not to.
Very interesting point.

I think it should be noted that parents aren't necessarily aware of what influences are being peddled to their children within the schools. Certainly I was approached by military recruiters fairly regularly and as well was sold tales of collegiate necessity (neither of which I particularly talked to my parents about). I will pay back what I borrowed (I didn't borrow much). Regardless of that though, I cannot recall a single time any of my 'teachers' spoke about credit, a principal, interest rates, etc. In fact some were probably young enough to be saturated in debt themselves yet not a single one had the heart to explain, against the curriculum probably, that college is not for everyone, that it is needlessly expensive, and that with regards to going $200,000 in debt before one is 25, perhaps it might not be the best life plan.

I can't complain too much, though. I should have known better. Had they gotten me for any more, I'd probably openly tell them to fuck off, too. Lest they try their luck collecting.

They will end up being bailed out. A mass resistance of loan defaults will push the banks, who've already made their money regardless, to whine for help. It will probably collapse the currency and the generation of students taught precisely bullshit and pointless trivia will gobble up the populist socialist's pleas for equality. Fun times. If it weren't for that simple fact I'd be more openly supporting people telling the den of thieves to promptly fuck off and die. I mean, I am as pro-contract as it gets but I find myself rather disinterested in moneyed aligned robbers and collective murderer's whines about people defaulting on their privileged interest rate, propagandist pimped loans. When they have a sort like I being relatively unfazed by open loan default, one can only assume the sorts of lenders being talked about. For instance, if they wished to petition a court from behind a jail cell door for money possibly or probably owed, I'd be okay with that.

kcchiefs6465
03-18-2015, 06:03 PM
You didn't understand what I wrote.

Almost everything you said about crony capitalists and deficits is irrelevant to student loan repayment. Not paying a student loan is a tax on me and it is stealing from me and anyone who holds dollars. It isn't just some issue between the government and the person defaulting.
.
Think about it this way. Nothing is free. The bill is either paid by taxes or inflation The university got the tuition money in first place. They have been paid. Someone ultimately has to be tied to money that got paid to the university. If the student loan doesn't get paid back by the person defaulting, then everyone else ends up being the one who picked up the bill.
The government financing student loans is a tax on you as well.

Clearly it wouldn't take a clairvoyant to recognize that offering any and every one five thousand dollars of touchable currency before say, even a test was conducted or attendance particularly noted, would lead to each and every crack head in America aspiring to be pharmacy technicians or HVAC professionals (really, signing up, taking the money, and smoking 8 ball after 8 ball until two weeks later they are broke... then they pay five hundred dollars and do the same goddamn thing again... I've seen it.). They aren't paying anyone back and barely work enough to be garnished. A continuance of this policy will certainly lead to another bail out.

Not that you are in favor of government involvement in student loans but it is a point that I think should be stressed.

They caused the problem. People want them to fix the problem by further compounding or exacerbating the problem. If the policy of socialized education were ended, terms on the loans for many people could be renegotiated, payment plans established. If they got out of the licensing racket, prospective work opportunities would increase on a rather unimaginable scale. Not to mention it wouldn't cost $100,000 for a degree. Especially with the advent of the internet, education is cheap. It is their protectionist policies and direct involvement in the market that has raised the cost of a degree to what it is.

Perhaps some of these people would be receptive to these simple facts after realizing their futures were chained predictably and with ulterior motivations. Motivations aside from churning out a nation of 'genius' pills counters and shrinks.

heavenlyboy34
03-18-2015, 06:04 PM
It's not a right to go to college for free. It's also not a right to borrow money for anything without paying it back. I agree if they don't want to pay the school for what happened, but they have to pay back the loans. It's a risk they took and they are now obligated.
A great many jobs/careers require a college degree. It's not a right to go of course, but for many it's a pre-requisite. It creates its own demand artificially because of anti-discrimination laws. Aside from that, I and others have documented how crooked the loan and "higher-ed" industries are. The lenders deserve to eat the loss because they set their standards too low. And the banksters/politicians ultimately behind the whole mess ought to be on the hook for everything.

phill4paul
03-18-2015, 06:13 PM
Never loan money unless you are prepared to lose it.

heavenlyboy34
03-18-2015, 06:15 PM
Never loan money unless you are prepared to lose it.
That^^
or get collateral to cover potential loss.

My parents lent my sis a bunch of money for her car and whatnot...still haven't been paid back. Rotten little spoiled blonde. :P

kcchiefs6465
03-18-2015, 06:23 PM
A great many jobs/careers require a college degree. It's not a right to go of course, but for many it's a pre-requisite. It creates its own demand artificially because of anti-discrimination laws. Aside from that, I and others have documented how crooked the loan and "higher-ed" industries are. The lenders deserve to eat the loss because they set their standards too low. And the banksters/politicians ultimately behind the whole mess ought to be on the hook for everything.
Frankly this.

I suppose I can entertain collectivist dreams if only Obama's (and the list is long) prison commissary would be garnished and his slave wage kept. Might beep in support if those assholes were picking up garbage.

Zippyjuan
03-18-2015, 06:54 PM
There has been a lot of criticism of "for profit" schools. They are much more about the "profit" than doing anything which would benefit the students. They hit the military guys on their GI bill pretty hard to try to get some of that money.

The school in this case was owned by Corinthian Colleges which closed that school along with several more they were running.


Prior to 2014, Corinthian Colleges Inc. was a network of more than 100 schools and one of the largest for-profit college companies in the US. But numerous investigations and lawsuits alleging wrongdoing against the company rapidly decreased its size. In July 2014, an agreement with the US Department of Education (DOE) forced Corinthian to sell 85 of its schools and close another 12.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mallory-heiney-writes-in-the-washington-post-she-isnt-paying-back-her-student-debt-2015-3#ixzz3Un3BhDn4



Corinthian Colleges responded to the complaint back in September, denouncing allegations of misconduct and stating that the CPFB "...wrongly disparages the career services assistance that we offer our graduates and mischaracterizes both the purpose and practices of the “Genesis” lending program."

The lawsuit was eventually settled, where ECMC group, owner of Corinthian schools, and the CFPB and USDOE came to an agreement. ECMC agreed to provide over $480 million in debt relief to Corinthian victims, no longer offer private student loans, and remove negative information from student borrowers’ credit reports.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
03-18-2015, 07:14 PM
Don't do drugs. Stay in school.

RonPaulMall
03-18-2015, 07:21 PM
I'd love to see Rand Paul come out with a simple bill that removes the restriction on Student Loans being discharageable in bankruptcy. Get ahead of the Dems and offer a free market solution that would have the added benefit of making you extremely popular among younger voters.

asurfaholic
03-19-2015, 10:44 AM
No, it isn't. Refusing to pay your loan back is a breach of contract. It is not stealing, it is not a crime, it is not even considered a legal wrong, like a tort.There is even a very respectable school of thought in legal economics that makes a compelling argument that breach of contract when the deal no longer makes sense makes for efficient allocation of resources in the marketplace.

Claiming that you were damaged by a breach of contract is a CIVIL action, not criminal

Very interesting points. So if I may, intentionally breaching a contract is still wrong, so my point still stands. At least your argument is consistant, some people think it's ok to stiff the govt because it's the govt. But this is dangerous territory. If you want to gain legitimacy in your fight against government wrongdoing, you have to be morally consistant.

It is my opinion that when a person takes a loan from anybody, they should pay it back entirely. If I took a loan to buy my boat, then I realized that I bought a piece of junk not worth the trailer it was riding on, is be in tough shit, since I purchased the boat not fully aware of the condition. I'd still be morally obligated to pay the party who loaned the money to me. But refusing to pay it back just because your all hurt that you didn't find gold in your boat is fraudulent. You obligated yourself to repay the loan regardless of whether the boat sits in the bottom of the intercostal waterway. If I felt that the person who sold the boat to me lied to me, I could take him to court.

Morally ok reasons to breach contract - complete loss of income and salvageable assets. Death. That's all I can think of.

Everything else is wrong

Acala
03-19-2015, 11:20 AM
Very interesting points. So if I may, intentionally breaching a contract is still wrong, so my point still stands. At least your argument is consistant, some people think it's ok to stiff the govt because it's the govt. But this is dangerous territory. If you want to gain legitimacy in your fight against government wrongdoing, you have to be morally consistant.

It is my opinion that when a person takes a loan from anybody, they should pay it back entirely. If I took a loan to buy my boat, then I realized that I bought a piece of junk not worth the trailer it was riding on, is be in tough shit, since I purchased the boat not fully aware of the condition. I'd still be morally obligated to pay the party who loaned the money to me. But refusing to pay it back just because your all hurt that you didn't find gold in your boat is fraudulent. You obligated yourself to repay the loan regardless of whether the boat sits in the bottom of the intercostal waterway. If I felt that the person who sold the boat to me lied to me, I could take him to court.

Morally ok reasons to breach contract - complete loss of income and salvageable assets. Death. That's all I can think of.

Everything else is wrong

I don't consider a breach of contract morally wrong unless the party knew in advance that they were going to breach the contract. Changing conditions are a sufficient reason for breaching a contract. But, as a matter of contract law, you don't need a reason. You just do it and pay compensation to the other party. With very few exceptions, the court will not force a person to honor the specifics of a contract. The law merely requires the party that breaches the contract to pay damages so the other party should get the benefit of their bargain. Unless it was a non-recourse loan, in which case the lender gets the collateral and nothing more. The fact that the loan was non-recourse was part of the deal they made so they really have no right to bitch.

Henry Rogue
03-19-2015, 03:22 PM
There has been a lot of criticism of "for profit" schools. They are much more about the "profit" than doing anything which would benefit the students. They hit the military guys on their GI bill pretty hard to try to get some of that money.

The school in this case was owned by Corinthian Colleges which closed that school along with several more they were running.

Are you implying other colleges and universities aren't for profit schools? That's news to me and I doubt any public school has the students interests as their focal point, else they wouldn't be price gouging their students so hard. From what i understand, professors get tenure by publishing, not filling students heads with knowledge.

PRB
03-19-2015, 03:48 PM
Are you implying other colleges and universities aren't for profit schools? That's news to me and I doubt any public school has the students interests as their focal point, else they wouldn't be price gouging their students so hard. From what i understand, professors get tenure by publishing, not filling students heads with knowledge.

you're conflating incompetence with greed and for profit.

Henry Rogue
03-19-2015, 04:08 PM
you're conflating incompetence with greed and for profit.
It appears so, but that wasn't my intent. I was trying to broach two subjects at the same time.

A Son of Liberty
03-19-2015, 04:29 PM
Only the government is stupid enough to make loans with no collateral. And if the borrower doesn't pay it back, that's tough for the stupid lender and the stupid taxpayers that approved the program of making stupid loans. Maybe a massive default will get the taxpayers to wise up. But I doubt it.

Man I get tired of this... Who are these, "taxpayers", exacty? The ones who explicitly entered into a lending agreement with these people, I mean. I guess it's just "tough" for me, as a victim of theft, to be on the hook for the failure of these people? This is similar to Barrex's lousy argument that we as "taxpayers" are to blame for what the USG does with their confiscated loot overseas. I DO NOT ENTER INTO THESE "AGREEMENTS" WILLINGLY. I don't know about you, but I'm being held up at gunpoint. I do not accept any responsibility for what is done with stolen goods once they are out of my possession; nor do I - by the way - acknowledge any responsibility to resist the theft tho' I suspect something immoral will be done with the booty once out of my control. I am just is much a victim, if not to the same degree as those on the receiving end of the state's bounty.

economics102
03-19-2015, 04:40 PM
In a society of free individuals, the right to be left alone after you've been deprived of all your property is, to my mind, a libertarian idea. That means the right to full, unrestricted bankruptcy. If you can be held liable for financial debts even after everything has been taken from you, that makes you an indentured servant.

A contract promising to spend the rest of your life paying down a loan, signed at age 17 (or any age), is illegitimate in my eyes, so I support their civil disobedience. These banks made loans on the back of a totally illegitimate non-bankruptcy law. So to my view they did that at their own risk, just as anyone buying a slave in the pre-Lincoln era did that at their own peril since common sense even back then ought to have told them slavery was an aillegitimate concept (though I still think, as I've argued elsewhere, that the government had a moral obligation to at least attempt to compensate slave owners, as they should any time they outlaw something they previously sanctioned as legal property).

Acala
03-19-2015, 04:53 PM
Man I get tired of this... Who are these, "taxpayers", exacty? The ones who explicitly entered into a lending agreement with these people, I mean. I guess it's just "tough" for me, as a victim of theft, to be on the hook for the failure of these people? This is similar to Barrex's lousy argument that we as "taxpayers" are to blame for what the USG does with their confiscated loot overseas. I DO NOT ENTER INTO THESE "AGREEMENTS" WILLINGLY. I don't know about you, but I'm being held up at gunpoint. I do not accept any responsibility for what is done with stolen goods once they are out of my possession; nor do I - by the way - acknowledge any responsibility to resist the theft tho' I suspect something immoral will be done with the booty once out of my control. I am just is much a victim, if not to the same degree as those on the receiving end of the state's bounty.

I don't disagree with what you are saying. But let's place the blame where it really belongs: government and the crony-capitalists in the education industry. Those are the people who are getting the benefit of the program, not you, or me, or the people who took out the loans. It is a mistake to allow ourselves to be diverted into blaming students for having been roped into a rigged system. I forgive them their mistake for some of the same reasons I forgive kids who enlist in the armed forces: they are too young and inexperieinced to know what they are getting into and that is EXACTLY why the government tagets them.

I advocate forgiving student debt because it is the best way to end the program. And it isn't going to result in more taxes or money creation because the government is going to tax and print as much as it possibly can anyway.

Gaddafi Duck
03-19-2015, 09:14 PM
No, it isn't. Refusing to pay your loan back is a breach of contract. It is not stealing, it is not a crime, it is not even considered a legal wrong, like a tort.There is even a very respectable school of thought in legal economics that makes a compelling argument that breach of contract when the deal no longer makes sense makes for efficient allocation of resources in the marketplace.

Claiming that you were damaged by a breach of contract is a CIVIL action, not criminal, and the remedy is a judgment for damages, not punishment for the borrower. However, it is hard to get damages paid so almost everyone who loans money has it secured with collateral, which is foreclosed or repossesed and then everyone walks away from the deal. Nobody goes to jail when they stop paying their car loan or mortgage because not re-paying your loan is NOT stealing.

Only the government is stupid enough to make loans with no collateral. And if the borrower doesn't pay it back, that's tough for the stupid lender and the stupid taxpayers that approved the program of making stupid loans. Maybe a massive default will get the taxpayers to wise up. But I doubt it.

By way of full disclosure, I did not use student loans from the government for my education. I borrowed from my family and paid them back. But university students now pay more just for books than I paid for tuition! It is a scam and students are getting screwed.

Anyway, what difference does it make to any of you if they pay back the money? Its not like the governemt is going to give you a rebate on your taxes. They will just spend the money on killing people or give it to the crony-capitalists. Every penny that stays in the hands of the people rather than going into the coffers of government is a blessing.

Nah, there was a pattern of behavior here. She continuously borrowed money and continuously assumed the services, but then after the fact decided she wasn't happy years into the program. Too bad so sad.

There's a difference between borrowing money and being too distressed to pay it off...it's another entirely to be pissed that you have debt and refuse to bother as a result. It's $24,000. Seriously? That's nothing significant. More significant than $23,999 or $0, but c'mon...$24k in student loan debt and she wants to fight for civil rights?? Uhhhh....

She was upset teachers read from textbooks and she had to spend HOURS studying for tests??? LOL!!!! Hilarious. I mean, you had to STUDY for HOURS? Oh my God!!! The HORROR!!! And has she not been in school the past 13 years BEFORE college??? Is she going to lead the charge to indemnify property owners for being coerced into paying for public schools? Or is she going to just pop out a kid and send hers to a subsidized education like she took?

Breach of contract? That's fine. She can have her credit score tarnished for a decade jeopardizing her chances of any meaningful career, and ultimately cost her more than $24,000 in interest rate charges she will receive if she ever acquires credit again to buy a car or a home, which I'm sure she will want to do.

Unfortunately for her, she can't understand that by paying off a relatively benign $24k loan is better than defaulting, likely losing due to her defiant attitude to absolutely refuse to uphold any part of her contract even though she willfully took the money to do what she wanted at the time, and that by not paying off the $24k loan, she'll pay several times more than in interest in any debt she assumes in life.