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donnay
03-12-2015, 03:07 PM
Here are Six Companies Who Get Rich off Prisoners


There are currently 2.4 million people (http://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie.html) in American prisons. This number has grown by 500% (http://mic.com/articles/86519/19-actual-statistics-about-america-s-prison-system) in the past 30 years. While the United States has only 5% of the world's population, it holds 25 percent (https://www.aclu.org/safe-communities-fair-sentences/prison-crisis) of the world's total prisoners. In 2012, one in every 108 adults (http://mic.com/articles/86519/19-actual-statistics-about-america-s-prison-system) was in prison or in jail, and one in 28 children in the U.S. had a parent behind bars.

Why do we have so many people in prison?

Money is a huge reason we have so many prisoners.

Several corporations make huge profits off prisons. It costs an average of $23,876 annually (https://www.libertariannews.org/2011/09/29/victimless-crime-constitutes-86-of-the-american-prison-population/) to house a state prisoner for a year. To save money, cash-strapped states (aka, us, the taxpayers) pay companies to deal with their prisoners. Companies make money by running prisons as cheaply as possible and squeezing the prisoners and their families (http://time.com/3446372/criminal-justice-prisoners-profit/) for money for basic necessities and fees. As a result, private prisons are a $70 billion industry (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/prison-privatization_b_1414467.html).

Even crazier, 65 percent (http://www.salon.com/2013/09/23/6_shocking_revelations_about_how_private_prisons_m ake_money_partner/) of private prison contracts require an occupancy guarantee. That means states must have a certain amount of prisoners -- typically between 80 and 90 percent of occupancy -- or pay companies for empty beds. Talk about bad incentives -- a state throws money away if it does not have enough prisoners.

Continued... (http://www.attn.com/stories/941/who-profits-from-prisoners?utm_source=social&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=usu)

DamianTV
03-12-2015, 05:31 PM
Human Trafficking is profitable.

http://static.infowars.com/politicalsidebarimage/bankstercop_large.jpg

Slave Mentality
03-12-2015, 05:39 PM
Not to mention the work prisoners do making goods for literal slave wages. Pay some SOB 13 cents an hour to tig weld all day just for the priveledge of getting out of the cage. Saw a good documentary about this, but can't remember the name.

We give North Korea shit. Our prisons just look nicer.

phill4paul
03-12-2015, 05:47 PM
There's a phrase for this. It's called "War Profiteer."

heavenlyboy34
03-12-2015, 05:50 PM
There's a phrase for this. It's called "War Profiteer."

Ur blasphemy is reported to Big Sister.

Zippyjuan
03-13-2015, 12:18 PM
So should we be for or against privatization of government services? (Ignoring for the moment the question of why are so many people in jails) Some have cheered the treatment Sheriff Joe Arpaio gives his prisoners- bologna sandwiches and no fans in their tents in 120 degree Arizona.

The Gold Standard
03-13-2015, 12:23 PM
So should we be for or against privatization of government services?

I guess that would depend on your definition of privatization, but I don't see anything private about the government renting out their prison slaves to companies.

donnay
03-13-2015, 12:39 PM
So should we be for or against privatization of government services? (Ignoring for the moment the question of why are so many people in jails) Some have cheered the treatment Sheriff Joe Arpaio gives his prisoners- bologna sandwiches and no fans in their tents in 120 degree Arizona.


There needs to be more discussion about this. If we pride ourselves as being a 'Free Society,' why do we have so many incarcerated people? This circumvents the 13th amendment "involuntary servitude" doesn't?

thoughtomator
03-13-2015, 12:42 PM
There needs to be more discussion about this. If we pride ourselves as being a 'Free Society,' why do we have so many incarcerated people? This circumvents the 13th amendment "involuntary servitude" doesn't?

The 13th Amendment has a loophole you can drive the entire prison industry through. And they do - boy, do they ever.

acptulsa
03-13-2015, 12:45 PM
So should we be for or against privatization of government services? (Ignoring for the moment the question of why are so many people in jails) Some have cheered the treatment Sheriff Joe Arpaio gives his prisoners- bologna sandwiches and no fans in their tents in 120 degree Arizona.

If you privatize something, that's good. But the reason stuff like this is entrusted to government is because people see a reason to eliminate the profit margin from the whole process. As soon as crime begins to pay, then someone will bribe Congress to make everything a crime.


Then you wind up with stuff like this:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/fbi-state-investigate-avalon-tulsa-halfway-house/article_ceae2f3b-9af8-595a-af1d-21d888a18da1.html


Last summer, Tulsa attorneys Louis Bullock and Scott Graham went to the Avalon Tulsa halfway house to see an inmate who complained that his broken hand wasn't getting medical treatment.
Both lawyers have visited private and public prisons throughout Oklahoma and typically undergo a basic security check and pat down when entering facilities. At Avalon Tulsa, they said, they signed their names on a sheet and walked right in.

The inmate simply wanted medical treatment for his injured hand, Bullock said, but his explanation of how the injury occurred shocked the lawyers. He told them he broke his hand beating up another inmate for using methamphetamine — at the direction of Avalon's staff, Bullock said.
"I found that to be pretty stunning," he said.
Soon more stories of inmate fights sanctioned by Avalon staff began to surface. Then a cellphone video emerged that appeared to corroborate stories of inmates fighting for sport, to settle debts or as a system of discipline at the facility.

Make anyone a slave and someone will try to make a gladiator out of him. I hear a lot about how a public-private partnership is the best of both worlds. But somehow they invariably wind up being the worst of both worlds. No wonder 'fascism' became such a dirty word that the fascists refuse to let anyone use it.

Danke
03-13-2015, 01:09 PM
So should we be for or against privatization of government services? (Ignoring for the moment the question of why are so many people in jails) Some have cheered the treatment Sheriff Joe Arpaio gives his prisoners- bologna sandwiches and no fans in their tents in 120 degree Arizona.

Is this slave labor helping your employment statistics?

invisible
03-13-2015, 08:45 PM
If you privatize something, that's good. But the reason stuff like this is entrusted to government is because people see a reason to eliminate the profit margin from the whole process. As soon as crime begins to pay, then someone will bribe Congress to make everything a crime.


Then you wind up with stuff like this:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/fbi-state-investigate-avalon-tulsa-halfway-house/article_ceae2f3b-9af8-595a-af1d-21d888a18da1.html



Make anyone a slave and someone will try to make a gladiator out of him. I hear a lot about how a public-private partnership is the best of both worlds. But somehow they invariably wind up being the worst of both worlds. No wonder 'fascism' became such a dirty word that the fascists refuse to let anyone use it.

How odd that you should just happen to mention avalon. Apparently there was a lot of corruption at the Tulsa facility, and the one around here is supposedly a lot more "clean". The story you mentioned is only a small part of what was going on at that place, from what I've been told.

RonPaulIsGreat
03-14-2015, 12:52 AM
My sisters husband makes close to 100K working at a state run prison. It's a complete joke. So, not really seeing much difference.

JohnGalt1225
03-14-2015, 01:14 AM
You know I work for a private prison company, CCA. I am morally conflicted about it and I do look to change careers this year. But I've also worked at state run prisons and I can tell you there is almost no difference. In fact private prisons are held to a higher level of scrutiny than public institutions because they are inherently not trusted. I don't like my line of work influence my political philosophy or my advocacy for change in the system because having witnesses the system up close I can see it is a mess. The prison system in this country needs true reform.

tod evans
03-14-2015, 04:13 AM
Prisons, evil as they are, are the bottom tier of the "Just-Us" system.

In my opinion the entire system can be brought to its knees, even ruined, by focusing on prosecuting attorneys.

Those who prosecute victimless crimes and those who embellish the crimes actually committed by filing laundry lists of charges must be dragged into the streets and publically tried for their crimes against humanity. Death must be the only sentence for such men who would wield power of this magnitude over their countrymen in an abusive manner.

Prosecuting attorneys are the only ones with the power to reign in kops, they're the only ones with the power to bargain with men's lives like poker chips and when the citizenry doesn't hold the prosecutors life in their own hands the will of the people means nothing.

There would be no need for prisons of the magnitude seen today without prosecutorial scum climbing governments hierarchical ladder on the backs of the citizenry...Literally!

NorthCarolinaLiberty
03-15-2015, 03:31 AM
So should we be for or against privatization of government services? (Ignoring for the moment the question of why are so many people in jails) .


You can't ignore that part of the equation.

timosman
08-21-2015, 02:56 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/28/how-for-profit-prisons-have-become-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-about/


Sen. Marco Rubio is one of the biggest beneficiaries.

Several industries have become notorious for the millions they spend on influencing legislation and getting friendly candidates into office: Big Oil, Big Pharma and the gun lobby among them. But one has managed to quickly build influence with comparatively little scrutiny: Private prisons. The two largest for-profit prison companies in the United States – GEO and Corrections Corporation of America – and their associates have funneled more than $10 million to candidates since 1989 and have spent nearly $25 million on lobbying efforts. Meanwhile, these private companies have seen their revenue and market share soar. They now rake in a combined $3.3 billion in annual revenue and the private federal prison population more than doubled between 2000 and 2010, according to a report by the Justice Policy Institute. Private companies house nearly half of the nation’s immigrant detainees, compared to about 25 percent a decade ago, a Huffington Post report found. In total, there are now about 130 private prisons in the country with about 157,000 beds.

Marco Rubio is one of the best examples of the private prison industry’s growing political influence, a connection that deserves far more attention now that he’s officially launched a presidential bid. The U.S. senator has a history of close ties to the nation’s second-largest for-profit prison company, GEO Group, stretching back to his days as speaker of the Florida House of Representatives. While Rubio was leading the House, GEO was awarded a state government contract for a $110 million prison soon after Rubio hired an economic consultant who had been a trustee for a GEO real estate trust. Over his career, Rubio has received nearly $40,000 in campaign donations from GEO, making him the Senate’s top career recipient of contributions from the company. (Rubio’s office did not respond to requests for comment.)

The Justice Policy Institute identified the private-prison industry’s three-pronged approach to increase profits through political influence: lobbying, direct campaign contributions, and building relationships and networks. On its website, CCA states that the company doesn’t lobby on policies that affect “the basis for or duration of an individual’s incarceration or detention.” Still, several reports have documented instances when private-prison companies have indirectly supported policies that put more Americans and immigrants behind bars – such as California’s three-strikes rule and Arizona’s highly controversial anti-illegal immigration law – by donating to politicians who support them, attending meetings with officials who back them, and lobbying for funding for Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Showing just how important these policies are to the private prison industry, both GEO Group and Corrections Corporation of America have warned shareholders that changes in these policies would hurt their bottom lines.

pcosmar
08-21-2015, 03:43 PM
So should we be for or against privatization of government services? (Ignoring for the moment the question of why are so many people in jails) Some have cheered the treatment Sheriff Joe Arpaio gives his prisoners- bologna sandwiches and no fans in their tents in 120 degree Arizona.

The two are not mutually exclusive.
Neither the profiteers nor Sheriff Joe's cruelty are anything close to a functional justice system.

Jail should be both rare and expensive. Personally costly to those that would cage another human being.
It should be reserved for only the most extreme cases.

RonPaulGeorge&Ringo
08-21-2015, 04:10 PM
You forgot to list the six companies.

JK/SEA
08-21-2015, 05:51 PM
You forgot to list the six companies.

here's what i do. I read the whole story. Try it. You can actually learn things this way. Amazing ain't it?

LibForestPaul
08-21-2015, 06:18 PM
So should we be for or against privatization of government services? (Ignoring for the moment the question of why are so many people in jails) Some have cheered the treatment Sheriff Joe Arpaio gives his prisoners- bologna sandwiches and no fans in their tents in 120 degree Arizona.

Sorry, public risk, private profit. The victim is the only one who should be profiting. Rape someone, steal their TV, work for the victim. But this is the system the people in this land want. There are others, from Sweden to Dutch to Russian to Japanese to Iran to Turkey, they have chosen this model.

enhanced_deficit
08-22-2015, 01:05 PM
So more prisoners means good biziness for them.

There was news of some judges getting kick backs for stiff sentencing if if I recall old news correctly.

timosman
08-22-2015, 01:14 PM
So more prisoners means good biziness for them.

There was news of some judges getting kick backs for stiff sentencing if if I recall old news correctly.

You are probably thinking about "Kids for cash" ?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pennsylvania-seeks-close-books-kids-cash-scandal-n408666

tod evans
08-22-2015, 01:19 PM
. But this is the system the people in this land want.

If by "the people in this land" you mean the "Just-Us" department and those who profit from it then I can't argue.

If you mean your average working stiff who isn't affiliated with the government there's room for discussion.

Weston White
08-22-2015, 11:03 PM
Bing-bango: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again.

donnay
08-22-2015, 11:58 PM
Bing-bango: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again.

Gotcha covered. ;)

mrsat_98
08-23-2015, 01:13 AM
Private Prison means Private guards with missing Oaths of Office maybe ?

donnay
08-23-2015, 08:21 AM
Private prison is an incentive to have a lot of good workers make the owner lots of money. Great entrepreneur enterprise; low wages for products that make business owner huge profits. No health Insurance or paid vacation/Bonus packages and very minimal sick days.

Dianne
08-23-2015, 08:50 AM
Depressing, really. The US seems to be one of the most uncivilized countries in the world. The news media does a good job convincing us that we live in the "land of the free". I haven't met anyone in the U.S. who is truly free. If my daughter buys a little pot and gets stopped, my car will be seized? I can't get over the people who had their home seized because their son sold $40.00 worth of pot on their front porch. No wonder Americans are under such stress. At any moment, and for any reason we can unexpectedly have assets legally stolen by the government.

donnay
08-23-2015, 09:15 AM
Depressing, really. The US seems to be one of the most uncivilized countries in the world. The news media does a good job convincing us that we live in the "land of the free". I haven't met anyone in the U.S. who is truly free. If my daughter buys a little pot and gets stopped, my car will be seized? I can't get over the people who had their home seized because their son sold $40.00 worth of pot on their front porch. No wonder Americans are under such stress. At any moment, and for any reason we can unexpectedly have assets legally stolen by the government.

The very definition of tyranny.

pcosmar
08-23-2015, 10:10 AM
Make anyone a slave and someone will try to make a gladiator out of him.

it isn't called Gladiator School for nothing.

http://www.rawstory.com/2014/03/fbi-takes-over-investigation-into-idahos-privately-operated-gladiator-school-prison/

and it was called that long before news stories ran about it.

pcosmar
08-23-2015, 10:12 AM
Private Prison means Private guards with missing Oaths of Office maybe ?

So you think oaths would help?

surf
08-23-2015, 10:33 AM
I had this discussion Friday with a coworker who was touting Bernie Sanders proclamation that he would introduce a bill banning "private" prisons.

we agreed that all these bogus laws are a primary factor in this industry's creation. I tried to make the case that a private prison could do a better job of rehabing prisoners provided they had an incentive to do so - along with the case that gov't just doesn't do anything worth a damn.

i'm keeping this belief, but it is tough to argue it.

Acala
08-23-2015, 03:52 PM
The whole concept of trying to control adults with a system of punishment is stupid. It simply does not work. Never has, and never will. The entire system based on punishment needs to be thrown in the trash and replaced with a system based on restitution to victims (see how that automatically eliminates "crime" with no victim?). Individuals who are proven to be a perpetual danger to free society are removed permanently. Everyone else pays restitution and remains a full and free citizen. It really is not that hard to figure out once you get past the idea of government as parent "spanking" misbehaving citizens.

PRB
08-23-2015, 04:19 PM
why aren't there "libertarian" companies that compete to lower costs of prisons?

surf
08-23-2015, 05:33 PM
why aren't there "libertarian" companies that compete to lower costs of prisons?you're joking, right?

I don't get why folks want to take potshots at libertarians when they, generally, can't hit the broad side of a barn.

PRB
08-23-2015, 05:58 PM
you're joking, right?

I don't get why folks want to take potshots at libertarians when they, generally, can't hit the broad side of a barn.

why hasn't any competitors stepped up to do good with the market?

sure, somebody might play favorites and crony one company against another even if the price isn't right, but if the alternative is there, at least the public will see an option, too bad, nobody stepped up, only liberals will bother to complain that we should waste money on rehabing instead of prisons.

Dianne
08-23-2015, 06:53 PM
So you think oaths would help?

I worked as a correctional officer in a State prison, retired after six months lol. My husband is a Sergeant there still. It was slammed into us every day, that these inmates are property of the State and they better be in as good a condition when lights out as they were when they woke up the morning. That is not the case with corporate owned prisons. Actually, corporate owned, for profit, prisons should be outlawed. They cost far more than a State owned prison, and most of the proceeds go into their pockets and not into the care and safe housing of the inmate.

Some of you might say "f'k the inmates". I say f'k the corporation that owns the prison and feeding these peeps turkey burgers and billing the government for steak burgers. I would almost bet these corporate owned prisons give these inmates flu shots every year, consisting of sugar water and billing the government for the real stuff. The government knows, but they are on the "take" themselves; as always.

Dianne
08-23-2015, 06:57 PM
I had this discussion Friday with a coworker who was touting Bernie Sanders proclamation that he would introduce a bill banning "private" prisons.

we agreed that all these bogus laws are a primary factor in this industry's creation. I tried to make the case that a private prison could do a better job of rehabing prisoners provided they had an incentive to do so - along with the case that gov't just doesn't do anything worth a damn.

i'm keeping this belief, but it is tough to argue it.

It's tough to argue, because it is untrue. For profit prisons are just that. They bill municipalities three times the actual expenses they pay to house and meet the needs of the inmates. The state doesn't care, only out of laziness. The State doesn't want to have to deal with it, so they are willing to let their taxpayers get beotch raped.

Had to edit to save a sentence or two :) . Keep in mind that the inmates do all the work in a prison. The inmates clean, cook and serve, cut hair, and make about 8 cents per hour (or that was the rate when I was there). What is left? The cost of the prison, itself, that has already been paid for by taxpayer dollars, the correctional officers salaries which run about 25,000. per year, and administrative staff, power, water. Many of the prisons have inmates growing the vegetables and processing the meats.

There is a tremendous amount of profit going into some fat cat's wallet, somewhere.

heavenlyboy34
08-23-2015, 07:27 PM
It's tough to argue, because it is untrue. For profit prisons are just that. They bill municipalities three times the actual expenses they pay to house and meet the needs of the inmates. The state doesn't care, only out of laziness. The State doesn't want to have to deal with it, so they are willing to let their taxpayers get beotch raped.

Had to edit to save a sentence or two :) . Keep in mind that the inmates do all the work in a prison. The inmates clean, cook and serve, cut hair, and make about 8 cents per hour (or that was the rate when I was there). What is left? The cost of the prison, itself, that has already been paid for by taxpayer dollars, the correctional officers salaries which run about 25,000. per year, and administrative staff, power, water. Many of the prisons have inmates growing the vegetables and processing the meats.

There is a tremendous amount of profit going into some fat cat's wallet, somewhere.

You're arguing against cronyist prison companies (and rightly so), not "private" companies. You need to qualify your statements accordingly. :) ~hugs~

Dianne
08-23-2015, 07:31 PM
You're arguing against cronyist prison companies (and rightly so), not "private" companies. You need to qualify your statements accordingly. :) ~hugs~

My bad, but hopefully everyone gets my drift. The inmates, many don't belong there, are better served when the State takes the liability to see to their needs. It saves the taxpayer, the inmates, and the little bit of justice system left in this country.

heavenlyboy34
08-23-2015, 07:35 PM
My bad, but hopefully everyone gets my drift. The inmates, many don't belong there, are better served when the State takes the liability to see to their needs. It saves the taxpayer, the inmates, and the little bit of justice system left in this country.
Yup. The whole way the American Just-Us system works is fundamentally flawed and needs a complete overhaul before we can start talking about "prisons"-which should only be used in cases in which the offender is a danger to others.

Dianne
08-23-2015, 07:49 PM
Yup. The whole way the American Just-Us system works is fundamentally flawed and needs a complete overhaul before we can start talking about "prisons"-which should only be used in cases in which the offender is a danger to others.

The entire "for profit" idea, is the root of all evil and incentive to incarcerate more and more and more. I read further up, there are certain quotas to meet. The United States is a savage country, with no morals or law. It's really disgusting what they are doing. And each of us are maybe one comment or simple action away from joining the prison system. Can you imagine there are some states that are throwing people in jail now, for not paying their hospital bills? I'm not sure about you, but if I get a $200,000 hospital bill I'm not paying it. If I get a 15,000 hospital bill, I'm not paying it. All designed to give the prison system, more customers.

heavenlyboy34
08-23-2015, 08:52 PM
The entire "for profit" idea, is the root of all evil and incentive to incarcerate more and more and more. I read further up, there are certain quotas to meet. The United States is a savage country, with no morals or law. It's really disgusting what they are doing. And each of us are maybe one comment or simple action away from joining the prison system. Can you imagine there are some states that are throwing people in jail now, for not paying their hospital bills? I'm not sure about you, but if I get a $200,000 hospital bill I'm not paying it. If I get a 15,000 hospital bill, I'm not paying it. All designed to give the prison system, more customers.
Exactly right. That's what I mean when I talk about a complete overhaul. Everything you mention and more are huge, destructive flaws. You and I pay more for prisons, "justice", and "health care" than anyone in the world (last I checked), and get little more than jack shit for it. :P

surf
08-23-2015, 10:42 PM
what i'm picturing in a "private" system are prisons that compete for and are awarded contracts based on results as well as costs.

I totally agree with the case for restitution primarily, along with the case that there is no crime without a victim. but I also believe that there are some criminals that should not go free w/o serving some punishment, but that many can be turned into good people. my ideal private prison would house inmates at a reduced cost and prepare those released back "into society" to not be any risk to other citizens.

Warrior_of_Freedom
08-23-2015, 10:50 PM
private prisons have no place in America, either public prisons or no prisons. If there's so many prisoners private prisons become a thing, then there's too many prisoners

surf
08-24-2015, 03:16 PM
i'm going to hoist a white flag on the "private" prisons potentially being better argument I've tried to make.

but i'm curious to hear what folks here think about Sanders proposal to introduce legislation aimed at ending private prisons

pcosmar
08-24-2015, 03:50 PM
My bad, but hopefully everyone gets my drift. The inmates, many don't belong there, are better served when the State takes the liability to see to their needs. It saves the taxpayer, the inmates, and the little bit of justice system left in this country.

Really.
I had lived there for several years. A State Prison. (Known as "the bloodiest 47 acres in America")

It was run by the state.
Bad as it was,,(and it was) I suspect still better than Prison for profit.

tod evans
08-24-2015, 04:33 PM
i'm going to hoist a white flag on the "private" prisons potentially being better argument I've tried to make.

but i'm curious to hear what folks here think about Sanders proposal to introduce legislation aimed at ending private prisons

It's a "Look over there." proposal, nothing more.

Misdirection from addressing the real problem of why there are so many behind bars.