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View Full Version : I think it is becoming painfully obvious the blimp won't fly.




dfalken
12-04-2007, 12:30 PM
The original plan obviously worked. As a PAC donations were limited to 5k (outside of campaign donations) and under that premise almost 500k was pledged so I see no reason why that plan had to change.

I think what has happened here is that the 15 minutes of fame really got the best of Trevor. This became obvious to me a few weeks back when a poll where 89% of respondents said the daily email for the teaparty was a bad idea was completely ignored by Trevor. I pleaded with him through emails, posts, pm's about reconsidering his daily email idea as I knew a bunch of people that weren't signing up because of it. For every X number of people that didn't sign up because of this I am sure a certain percentage will forget to donate on the 16th. A simple reminder a few days before the event and the day of the event would have encouraged more people to sign up and not alienated those that didn't want to receive daily spam.

89% of poll respondents saw this, yet Trevor arrogantly told me that he owned a marketing company and he knew what he was doing and the daily email was a good idea. At that point I completely lost faith on the guy and lost my enthusiasm to contribute to any aspect of the grassroots that involved him. I could tell his ego was going to his head.

Another insignificantly small detail that proves my point is the fact that he signs his daily teaparty spam "Trevor Lyman" at the bottom. Do we really need to know his name? Why not sign "A Ron Paul Grassroots Effort" or something to that effect? It is obvious he has been trying to make a name for himself from day one. The teaparty is a grassroots effort it is not a Trevor Lyman effort, so why sign the daily spam with his name?

The November 5th idea was not his idea, he took it from someone else and the same goes for the Teaparty idea. He is an average web developer at best as we have seen with all the problems the site has encountered, how long it took to go live, the fact that the counter is still not updated automatically, the fact that the footprint of the page is enormous affecting bandwith, etc.

His ego is now sinking the blimp idea which would have been a great innovative media attention gathering event. There was no need to form a private company...other than the need to continue to further his own Trevor Lyman cause.

He will argue that to collect the millions needed to fly the blimp for a year the private company was needed to circumvent the 5k per donor PAC limit. Well I strongly disagree. First of all the major impact of the blimp will be the first month it flies as the media will be all over it, after that period I am not even sure that the 350k for each subsequent month couldn't be better spent elsewhere. Under the PAC premises in a few days 500k was funded and I am sure at least 2 months (700k) could have been collected without having to get any donations larger than 5k. Those two months would have carried the blimp into the majority of the primary elections and probably into the SuperBowl. After that point Ron Paul will either have won the primary or not. If he wins it plenty of new supporters will join his cause and plenty of new money would become available to keep funding the blimp still under the PAC, if not, the blimp is no longer needed.

An individual's greed is causing a lot of turmoil in what has been to date an amazing grassroots effort. I am not trying to cause waves here but I am very dissapointed at how Trevor has let his 15 minutes of fame completely derail this cause. The grassroots need to follow a new leader for future moneybombs and other major GRASSROOTS efforts. I have no idea who that new leader is but I have seen several posters on the boards that would probably step up to the plate. I really wanted to see this blimp fly but I am very discouraged by what has happened.

JohnnyWrath
12-04-2007, 12:32 PM
exact reason why I am promoting http://ronpaulsteaparty.com/ instead of Trevors site.

Elijah
12-04-2007, 12:33 PM
The graph was broken from 2 am till 10 am.

MozoVote
12-04-2007, 12:34 PM
I had more doubts Sunday night than I do right now. They've gotten $90,000 so there are quite a lot of people giving them a chance. I think when the decals go on, donations will "balloon".

NerveShocker
12-04-2007, 12:36 PM
exact reason why I am promoting http://ronpaulsteaparty.com/ instead of Trevors site.

ROFL. They both tell you to donate to Ronpaul2008.com there is no difference... Except that site comes up slower and the amount of pledges is not accurate.. Oh well I still don't see the difference.. I can't help but laugh. Pledge to whichever you want... all your doing is saying you will send 100$ www.ronpaul2008.com...

MaxDeMarzi
12-04-2007, 12:36 PM
Ok... somebody floated the idea that one of us should donate $20 bucks for every negative post about the blimp.

I just put in another $100 bucks, so that takes care of dfalken, JohnnyWrath and the next 3 naysayers. :D

Thanks Max De Marzi, you're done!
Your order has been sent to Liberty Political Advertising. Return to Liberty Political Advertising

dfalken
12-04-2007, 12:38 PM
I had more doubts Sunday night than I do right now. They've gotten $90,000 so there are quite a lot of people giving them a chance. I think when the decals go on, donations will "balloon".

I hope you are right. I would love to see the blimp fly as it is a great media attention getter, I just wish it had been done the way it was originally planned.

areyou4real
12-04-2007, 12:40 PM
The original plan obviously worked. As a PAC donations were limited to 5k (outside of campaign donations) and under that premise almost 500k was pledged so I see no reason why that plan had to change.

I believe your premise is false? The 500k pledged before was not real to begin with.

See here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=44336

jt_54321
12-04-2007, 12:42 PM
I wish I could contribute more, but I have already done my part and I have put a small amount aside for 16th Dec as well. I am still optimistic about the blimp program..

But I have learnt one lesson in life that, "not to be too confident on any issue". In case if we fall short by a small amount, I really wish/hope that at least one, I mean only ONE, Ron Paul follower who happens to be a multi-millionaire would come and sponsor the blimp for an amount like $50,000/- or more? I still prefer we all do it through our small contributions, but....

Am I wrong in hoping for that? Do any of you have close contacts with any such Ron Paul follower?

jt

dfalken
12-04-2007, 12:44 PM
I wish I could contribute more, but I have already done my part and I have put a small amount aside for 16th Dec as well. I am still optimistic about the blimp program..

But I have learnt one lesson in life that, "not to be too confident on any issue". In case if we fall short by a small amount, I really wish/hope that at least one, I mean only ONE, Ron Paul follower who happens to be a multi-millionaire would come and sponsor the blimp for an amount like $50,000/- or more? I still prefer we all do it through our small contributions, but....

Am I wrong in hoping for that? Do any of you have close contacts with any such Ron Paul follower?

jt

I am hoping at this point what you say will happen. Someone like Mr. Lepard hopefully will step up to the plate and fund the blimp themselves...as the idea is great.

Maverick
12-04-2007, 12:50 PM
But I have learnt one lesson in life that, "not to be too confident on any issue". In case if we fall short by a small amount, I really wish/hope that at least one, I mean only ONE, Ron Paul follower who happens to be a multi-millionaire would come and sponsor the blimp for an amount like $50,000/- or more? I still prefer we all do it through our small contributions, but....


I'm hoping that if it happens to fall short, that maybe...just maybe Trevor and the others take out a loan to show that they're actually putting their "asses on the line" like they've been claiming. I mean, if they're really committed to seeing the blimp fly, then surely they'd have no problem giving a little of themselves to make up difference, right?

jb4ronpaul
12-04-2007, 12:52 PM
gave 100 today, give them a chance.

ItsTime
12-04-2007, 12:52 PM
Hello bank, I need a loan. Bank, "for what" Trevor, "A blimp"


I'm hoping that if it happens to fall short, that maybe...just maybe Trevor and the others take out a loan to show that they're actually putting their "asses on the line" like they've been claiming. I mean, if they're really committed to seeing the blimp fly, then surely they'd have no problem giving a little of themselves to make up difference, right?

JohnnyWrath
12-04-2007, 12:52 PM
They both tell you to donate to Ronpaul2008.com there is no difference

One puts you in a Trevor database for personal gain, and the other does not.

dfalken
12-04-2007, 12:58 PM
One puts you in a Trevor database for personal gain, and the other does not.

Sad but true. One has daily spam signed "Trevor Lyman" the other one does not.

Mental Dribble
12-04-2007, 12:59 PM
Sad but true. One has daily spam signed "Trevor Lyman" the other one does not.

It does not have daily spam. I've been signed up for 2 weeks and have gotten, 5 or 6 emails, hardly daily. Anything helping ron paul is not spam in my book.


http://www.mentaldribble.com/images/blimp.jpg

This is the ACTUAL BLIMP!

dfalken
12-04-2007, 01:02 PM
It does not have daily spam. I've been signed up for 2 weeks and have gotten, 5 or 6 emails, hardly daily. Anything helping ron paul is not spam in my book.


http://www.mentaldribble.com/images/blimp.jpg

This is the ACTUAL BLIMP!

I agree, I signed up for the Paulunteer that sends me a daily email...I have no problem with that. But does the teaparty email have to be signed "Trevor Lyman"? He is looking to get his name in lights make no mistake about it.

Mark
12-04-2007, 01:03 PM
I think what has happened here is that the 15 minutes of fame really got the best of Trevor.



It wouldn't be the first time it's happened.

I'm just worried about his reputation if the blimp doesn't fly and all the money isn't returned.

If he just returns part of it and keeps some for himself, it won't be good for him.

fletcher
12-04-2007, 01:03 PM
No doubt about it: Trevor is an opportunistic egomaniac.


Hello bank, I need a loan. Bank, "for what" Trevor, "A blimp"

More like
Trevor: I need a loan.
Bank:For what?
Trevor: A business. People are throwing money at me because they think they are donating to a cause. I'm gonna be rich.
Bank: We'd like some of that sweet action. Here's a loan.

Mark
12-04-2007, 01:05 PM
gave 100 today, give them a chance.

Do you expect ALL of it back if no blimp?

JohnnyWrath
12-04-2007, 01:05 PM
More like
Trevor: I need a loan.
Bank:For what?
Trevor: A business. People are throwing money at me because they think they are donating to a cause. I'm gonna be rich.
Bank: We'd like some of that sweet action. Here's a loan.

LMAO !

Mark
12-04-2007, 01:09 PM
Mr. Lepard hopefully will step up to the plate and fund the blimp

Wasn't $100,000 of his own money for the ad enough to ask of him?

zcopley
12-04-2007, 01:10 PM
Put your egos away -- think of how much press and attention this is going to generate. Who gives a rats if Trevor gets to be a bigshot. The blimp will fly!

Mark
12-04-2007, 01:10 PM
exact reason why I am promoting http://ronpaulsteaparty.com/ instead of Trevors site.

Whose email database does that site feed? Different from Trevor's?

RockHoward
12-04-2007, 01:10 PM
I would also add that the PAC idea was unworkable. All donations to a PAC that focuses on a single candidate like Ron Paul goes against your total contributions for Ron Paul. In other words, if you donated the max amount to RonPaul2008 you could not donate at all to the blimp and vice versa. This limitiation ruined the initial PAC concept.

That the team recovered and came up with what looks to be a reasonable and probably legal alternative is entirely to their credit.

As to the point that people will get paid for this effort, please note that this is an important aspect of the plan. Making the effort "for profit" is an important legal point that stands against those who would try to stop this effort on a legal pretext based on campaign finance law.

Mental Dribble
12-04-2007, 01:11 PM
Whose email database does that site feed? Different from Trevor's?

a 16 year old kid.... one that I've pmed with some questions and am awaiting a response from.

Ivanelterrible
12-04-2007, 01:11 PM
For christs sake stop with the never ending Trevor bashing, its getting sickening. Look, I dont think the guy is the greatest political mind ever, and he may be in the clouds a bit because of Nov 5th, but he is also giving a huge aqmount of time to try and get Ron Paul elected. Don't like the salaries? Don't donate, nobody is forcing you to. Or try and get your own blimp for Ron Paul without any fee for yourself. There is a difference between construcitive criticsism and bashing again and again.

JaredR26
12-04-2007, 01:14 PM
The original plan obviously worked. As a PAC donations were limited to 5k (outside of campaign donations) and under that premise almost 500k was pledged so I see no reason why that plan had to change.


The problem with a PAC was legality. If the PAC was intended solely for Ron Paul, it would be capped at $2300 and every dollar would count towards the campaign limit.

The $500k pledges WERE NOT VERIFIED. Everyone went on the assumption that at least half of them were valid, but no one made a serious attempt to validate the largest batch of them. Blimp crew big mistake #1.

The second mistake was a lack of communication without us throughout the entire process about what their goals and problems were, and what the potential solutions were. Not even getting our feedback or opinions on what it should say. Mistake #2.

LL funded the Ron Paul advert in USA Today singlehandedly but he got tons of feedback and advice from the RP forums. And he used it to make a better ad. The blimp crew simply told the forums to wait while they made all the decisions.

I hope the blimp flies. I hadn't planned to give originally because I won't hit the campaign cap, but I might change my mind.

Mark
12-04-2007, 01:16 PM
a 16 year old kid.... one that I've pmed with some questions and am awaiting a response from.

I'll hold off then. ;) Thanks..

grizzums
12-04-2007, 01:17 PM
The problem with a PAC was legality. If the PAC was intended solely for Ron Paul, it would be capped at $2300 and every dollar would count towards the campaign limit.

The $500k pledges WERE NOT VERIFIED. Everyone went on the assumption that at least half of them were valid, but no one made a serious attempt to validate the largest batch of them. Blimp crew big mistake #1.

The second mistake was a lack of communication without us throughout the entire process about what their goals and problems were, and what the potential solutions were. Not even getting our feedback or opinions on what it should say. Mistake #2.

LL funded the Ron Paul advert in USA Today singlehandedly but he got tons of feedback and advice from the RP forums. And he used it to make a better ad. The blimp crew simply told the forums to wait while they made all the decisions.

I hope the blimp flies. I hadn't planned to give originally because I won't hit the campaign cap, but I might change my mind.

+1

troyd1
12-04-2007, 01:18 PM
I would also add that the PAC idea was unworkable. All donations to a PAC that focuses on a single candidate like Ron Paul goes against your total contributions for Ron Paul. In other words, if you donated the max amount to RonPaul2008 you could not donate at all to the blimp and vice versa. This limitiation ruined the initial PAC concept.

That the team recovered and came up with what looks to be a reasonable and probably legal alternative is entirely to their credit.

As to the point that people will get paid for this effort, please note that this is an important aspect of the plan. Making the effort "for profit" is an important legal point that stands against those who would try to stop this effort on a legal pretext based on campaign finance law.
Agreed.

NerveShocker
12-04-2007, 01:20 PM
The problem with a PAC was legality. If the PAC was intended solely for Ron Paul, it would be capped at $2300 and every dollar would count towards the campaign limit.

The $500k pledges WERE NOT VERIFIED. Everyone went on the assumption that at least half of them were valid, but no one made a serious attempt to validate the largest batch of them. Blimp crew big mistake #1.

The second mistake was a lack of communication without us throughout the entire process about what their goals and problems were, and what the potential solutions were. Not even getting our feedback or opinions on what it should say. Mistake #2.

LL funded the Ron Paul advert in USA Today singlehandedly but he got tons of feedback and advice from the RP forums. And he used it to make a better ad. The blimp crew simply told the forums to wait while they made all the decisions.

I hope the blimp flies. I hadn't planned to give originally because I won't hit the campaign cap, but I might change my mind.

The truth shall set you free... and hopefully silence others spreading anti-blimp lies.

fuzzybekool
12-04-2007, 01:25 PM
Let's all have fun. I can't wait for the blimp to fly. I wanna hear Wolf Blitzer say "Amazing , Amazing" as the blimp flys over New York City and Boston.

dfalken
12-04-2007, 01:52 PM
Wasn't $100,000 of his own money for the ad enough to ask of him?

I said someone like him I didn't say Mr. Lepard himself.

BobW
12-04-2007, 02:39 PM
Trevor Lyman signs the daily teaparty emails with his own name because that's who the emails are from. It's a common courtesy. Better that being spammed from some anonymous "Ron Paul supporter".

The web site for the blimp explains why it was not feasible to operate as a PAC. Get over it.

dfalken
12-04-2007, 02:42 PM
Trevor Lyman signs the daily teaparty emails with his own name because that's who the emails are from. It's a common courtesy. Better that being spammed from some anonymous "Ron Paul supporter".

The web site for the blimp explains why it was not feasible to operate as a PAC. Get over it.

Ok but when it was supposed to operate as PAC nobody was drawing a salary...how come now that it is operated as a company salaries became necessary? All this questioning has made them first take a cut in their supposed salaries and now is making them say they will dedicate whatever money comes in for the blimp first....so all this questioning has achieved some purpose.

McDermit
12-04-2007, 02:57 PM
Whose email database does that site feed? Different from Trevor's?

TechnoRob's. He has promised to not send anything but TeaParty email, not DAILY, and not to sell or otherwise misuse the email addys.

He hasn't updated in a few days, but whatever. I trust him over Trevor. Unless/until another alternative becomes available, I'm using this site.

millerjd
12-04-2007, 03:30 PM
What a useful use of time...

francisco
12-04-2007, 03:34 PM
Relax everyone. They only need to collect a little more to fix a typo and she'll be ready to fly!




Tsk,Tsk Tom, I guess you were just teasing us when you said on another Blimp thread that you were leaving.

Just in case you revert to being a man of your word, don't let the door hit your butt on the way out.

TCrage
12-04-2007, 03:38 PM
Tsk,Tsk Tom, I guess you were just teasing us when you said on another Blimp thread that you were leaving.

Just in case you revert to being a man of your word, don't let the door hit your butt on the way out.

Oh shut up. I said I wasn't post there on that thread anymore. Quit following me around you wierdo.

francisco
12-04-2007, 03:45 PM
Oh shut up. I said I wasn't post there on that thread anymore. Quit following me around you wierdo.

Careful, your face is turning that funny shade of purple again.

torchbearer
12-04-2007, 03:49 PM
Sure any decent Ron Paul supporter would agree that we should give this project a chance, but a troll on the other hand....his objective is not to be fair and reasonable, but to disrupt, cause doubt, fear, anger, and frustration.
When you read someone's post... ask yourself, what are they trying to sell?
If they are selling fear,doubt,anger, and frustration... then they are of the dark side. Listen to master Yoda once in awhile.

fletcher
12-04-2007, 03:54 PM
Sure any decent Ron Paul supporter would agree that we should give this project a chance, but a troll on the other hand....his objective is not to be fair and reasonable, but to disrupt, cause doubt, fear, anger, and frustration.
When you read someone's post... ask yourself, what are they trying to sell?
If they are selling fear,doubt,anger, and frustration... then they are of the dark side. Listen to master Yoda once in awhile.

Wow. This sounds exactly like the neocons right before Iraq. I guess if it worked for them it can work for you.

Maverick
12-04-2007, 04:21 PM
Wow. This sounds exactly like the neocons right before Iraq. I guess if it worked for them it can work for you.

I know. The similarities are downright eerie. And the funny thing is that nobody sees the irony here. All of you out there saying that the critics of the blimp project are trolls, dissenters, plants, trying to undermine our efforts...just think about the irony for a minute.

Aus4RP
12-04-2007, 04:26 PM
I actually support the Blimp Idea, but just have one concern. I've spent a fair chunk of my time reading through the threads and I haven't seen this brought up but my apologies if it has previously .

Is the Ron Paul slogan on the side of the blimp going to be painted on or just banners?


I'm worried that if it's just a large type banner that's interchangeable it could be cause for a little bit of concern, I'm sure Trever and Co who started the company are genuine, but who also see an opportunity. Ron Paul supporters will be financing the Blimp, while the owners of this new advertising company could (could) start hiring out Blimp time to other buisnesses while the Blimp isn't on Ron Paul duties. The money collected would be close to a 100% net gain because the Blimp is already paid for.


See where I'm coming from?, trust me I'm trying to make sense here. :P

This is not an attack, I want to see this Blimp fly!, I Don't want this to end with Trever sitting at his kitchen table in 3 weeks time waving a gherkin around singing 'hey there blimpy boy'- Homer simpson style.

Naraku
12-04-2007, 04:33 PM
Just because someone comes in with concerns and even negative comments doesn't make them a troll. I believe some of the accusations and concerns are valid. Trevor does seem to be a little arrogant sometimes and he's done a lot of things a person might see as cocky. I believe he should be given the benefit of the doubt, but clearly others wouldn't agree.

There are also legitimate concerns about the blimp. I'm particularly worried about the legal issues. It seems legit, but there's a strong chance of a lawsuit in this regard.

francisco
12-04-2007, 04:34 PM
I actually support the Blimp Idea, but just have one concern. I've spent a fair chunk of my time reading through the threads and I haven't seen this brought up but my apologies if it has previously .

Is the Ron Paul slogan on the side of the blimp going to be painted on or just banners?


I'm worried that if it's just a large type banner that's interchangeable it could be cause for a little bit of concern,...



The following is posted in the "Transparancy' section of the blimp website:

Skyship 600 Decals - Originally a banner was included but banner material was out of stock
o $25,000 (normally $50,000-$100,000 but Airship Management Services gave us a discount)

ON EDIT: Following post from Elijah indicates that banners will be used after all. I give him credit for his immediate response.

Elijah
12-04-2007, 04:37 PM
I actually support the Blimp Idea, but just have one concern. I've spent a fair chunk of my time reading through the threads and I haven't seen this brought up but my apologies if it has previously .

Is the Ron Paul slogan on the side of the blimp going to be painted on or just banners?


I'm worried that if it's just a large type banner that's interchangeable it could be cause for a little bit of concern, I'm sure Trever and Co who started the company are genuine, but who also see an opportunity. Ron Paul supporters will be financing the Blimp, while the owners of this new advertising company could (could) start hiring out Blimp time to other buisnesses while the Blimp isn't on Ron Paul duties. The money collected would be close to a 100% net gain because the Blimp is already paid for.


See where I'm coming from?, trust me I'm trying to make sense here. :P

This is not an attack, I want to see this Blimp fly!, I Don't want this to end with Trever sitting at his kitchen table in 3 weeks time waving a gherkin around singing 'hey there blimpy boy'- Homer simpson style.

I just got word that the decals will not be ready in time so they are doing banners. I wanted to let you know right away so people won't attack me. We will be saving 10-15k on this. And after a month we could change them out to something else.

What you describe possibly happening will not. I personally guarantee it.

Aus4RP
12-04-2007, 04:38 PM
The following is posted in the "Transparancy' section of the blimp website:

Skyship 600 Decals - Originally a banner was included but banner material was out of stock
o $25,000 (normally $50,000-$100,000 but Airship Management Services gave us a discount)


Ok thanks.

:)

Aus4RP
12-04-2007, 04:40 PM
I just got word that the decals will not be ready in time so they are doing banners. I wanted to let you know right away so people won't attack me. We will be saving 10-15k on this. And after a month we could change them out to something else.

What you describe possibly happening will not. I personally guarantee it.

Thank you very much for your prompt reply, I'm 100% behind this now.

The site is looking better by the day as well!.

millerjd
12-04-2007, 04:41 PM
I just got word that the decals will not be ready in time so they are doing banners. I wanted to let you know right away so people won't attack me. We will be saving 10-15k on this. And after a month we could change them out to something else.

What you describe possibly happening will not. I personally guarantee it.

Taking a 3rd person point of view of the banner on the blimp is kinda amusing. Imagine someone who is frustrated at seeing the banners above their freeways and attaching large banners out of windows and buildings now seeing one hanging off a giant blimp...

"Christ! Can it get any bigger?"

Maybe we should start thinking about advertising in space off a pair of geo-synchronous satellites.

torchbearer
12-04-2007, 04:43 PM
Wow. This sounds exactly like the neocons right before Iraq. I guess if it worked for them it can work for you.

Oh, you must explain this one... I'm asking for hope, and your saying i'm a neocon. That is a personal attack and is against forum rules.

Perhaps you would like to state how I am wrong instead of personal attacks? Or would that be too productive?

francisco
12-04-2007, 04:44 PM
Just because someone comes in with concerns and even negative comments doesn't make them a troll. I believe some of the accusations and concerns are valid. Trevor does seem to be a little arrogant sometimes and he's done a lot of things a person might see as cocky. I believe he should be given the benefit of the doubt, but clearly others wouldn't agree.

There are also legitimate concerns about the blimp. I'm particularly worried about the legal issues. It seems legit, but there's a strong chance of a lawsuit in this regard.

IANAL, but I make the observation that the official campaign has nothing to do with the LLC that was formed to make the project happen. The sponsors of time-share advertising purchases are customers, I would be amazed if anyone had grounds for a lawsuit against them, with the possible exception of a very large sponsor buying time in excess of usualPAC limits.

Most importantly, one of the attorneys involved is a highly respected former FEC director, and that gives me confidence that this angle has been covered.

LFOD
12-04-2007, 04:49 PM
I just got word that the decals will not be ready in time so they are doing banners. I wanted to let you know right away so people won't attack me. We will be saving 10-15k on this. And after a month we could change them out to something else.

What you describe possibly happening will not. I personally guarantee it.

Same size and design as the photos on the web page, just in banner form?

Wolfgang Bohringer
12-04-2007, 05:18 PM
I just got word that the decals will not be ready in time so they are doing banners. I wanted to let you know right away so people won't attack me. We will be saving 10-15k on this. And after a month we could change them out to something else.

Does this mean that you're scrapping "Who Is?"???

If so and you can figure out how to humbly tell people that you will have only positive Ron Paul messages, then I'll send the rest of the $100 that I pledged.

And I'm sure others will see this as a sign of you're listening to your potential customers. Over 75% polled, said scrap the silly "Who IS?"

Naraku
12-04-2007, 05:22 PM
IANAL, but I make the observation that the official campaign has nothing to do with the LLC that was formed to make the project happen. The sponsors of time-share advertising purchases are customers, I would be amazed if anyone had grounds for a lawsuit against them, with the possible exception of a very large sponsor buying time in excess of usualPAC limits.

I think I have a good grasp of the legal situation and I'll probably put up a topic with my views on this. Basically, I understand the idea to be legal, but I'm concerned about its implementation.

slantedview
12-04-2007, 05:23 PM
exact reason why I am promoting http://ronpaulsteaparty.com/ instead of Trevors site.
A tea party is a tea party to me. I don't care which site it's organized out of as long as we raise a boatload of money.

tangent4ronpaul
12-04-2007, 05:32 PM
Taking a 3rd person point of view of the banner on the blimp is kinda amusing. Imagine someone who is frustrated at seeing the banners above their freeways and attaching large banners out of windows and buildings now seeing one hanging off a giant blimp...

"Christ! Can it get any bigger?"

Maybe we should start thinking about advertising in space off a pair of geo-synchronous satellites.

hmmmm.... you know there is one guy working on a homemade rocket using a low cost, sugar based propellant to reach low earth orbit... and weather balloons get way up there - maybe deploy an inflatable wing with flexible solar panels and low weight motors - NASA has something like that (the wing) that cruises the upper atmosphere... perhaps an altimeter on the balloons to release gas from the balloons into the wing and...

ah - never mind... Even if we could pull it off, the FAA would never let us do it.

-n

xexkxex
12-04-2007, 05:36 PM
Maybe we should start thinking about advertising in space....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2370/2087814384_37c6c72358_o.jpg

:D

millerjd
12-04-2007, 05:48 PM
Alright, I'll be right back, I'm going to go form Liberty Space Advertising, LLC...

tekkierich
12-04-2007, 05:53 PM
Toby Keith - A Little Less Talk And A Lot More Action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu2kGZ9Et1g)

Why does everyone get them selves all riled up about these things? Get OUTSIDE. Knock on doors people!

tangent4ronpaul
12-04-2007, 05:59 PM
I would also add that the PAC idea was unworkable. All donations to a PAC that focuses on a single candidate like Ron Paul goes against your total contributions for Ron Paul. In other words, if you donated the max amount to RonPaul2008 you could not donate at all to the blimp and vice versa. This limitiation ruined the initial PAC concept.

That the team recovered and came up with what looks to be a reasonable and probably legal alternative is entirely to their credit.

As to the point that people will get paid for this effort, please note that this is an important aspect of the plan. Making the effort "for profit" is an important legal point that stands against those who would try to stop this effort on a legal pretext based on campaign finance law.

That argument about the PAC is tired and has been debunked over and over and over again in these threads. YOU JUST ADD A BANNER WITH THE NAMES OF PEOPLE RUNNING FOR CONGRESS USING RON PAULS PLATFORM! - a small banner... legal condition met!

The other argument that that also answers is that it would take away donations from his campaign - not if you hype more than one candidate and even if it did, the original site specifically asked people to not donate unless they had maxed out contributions to the official campaign!

The "setting up a PAC is too hard" argument is pathetic (in a different post, different author - post 27 or 30, IIRC). There are at least 5 Ron Paul PACs that could have done it.

That said, it's a good idea to break new legal ground and get around the McCain-Feingold BS that was designed to prevent grassroots efforts from working.

What I'm not at all thrilled about is the 42% increase in budget - now down to 21% or $400,000 total and the incredibly bloated corporate structure - all these employees... especially for positions that could have been filled for free.

But the blimp comes first, before the company and the blimp co will launch on speculation if we get $200,000 by Friday, which it looks like we going to make so life is good!

Still think we would have been better off with a PAC for the first month and trying this for month 2+, but it's done and seems to be working.

We still don't have the original background info page back up yet. I still want to see that page.

-n

John P Slevin
12-04-2007, 06:04 PM
[QUOTE=dfalken;527872]The original plan obviously worked. As a PAC donations were limited to 5k (outside of campaign donations) and under that premise almost 500k was pledged so I see no reason why that plan had to change.

No, the original plan proposed to do something which CANNOT be done under the law. Campaign finance is a real thing. Read something, learn about it. NO PAC could donate more than 5,000.00 to Ron Paul's campaign.

NO donor could give more than 2,300.00. The blimp project COULD NOT advertise the Ron Paul candidacy. These ALL are facts. Wake up. What Trevor and company are doing is providing a solution to these legal constraints. Get off your high horse, understand somthing before you speak and before you slam people who, quite frankly, are better quality than those who slam them.

torchbearer
12-04-2007, 06:05 PM
[QUOTE=dfalken;527872]The original plan obviously worked. As a PAC donations were limited to 5k (outside of campaign donations) and under that premise almost 500k was pledged so I see no reason why that plan had to change.

No, the original plan proposed to do something which CANNOT be done under the law. Campaign finance is a real thing. Read something, learn about it. NO PAC could donate more than 5,000.00 to Ron Paul's campaign.

NO donor could give more than 2,300.00. The blimp project COULD NOT advertise the Ron Paul candidacy. These ALL are facts. Wake up. What Trevor and company are doing is providing a solution to these legal constraints. Get off your high horse, understand somthing before you speak and before you slam people who, quite frankly, are better quality than those who slam them.

qft.

slantedview
12-04-2007, 06:08 PM
The original plan obviously worked. As a PAC donations were limited to 5k (outside of campaign donations) and under that premise almost 500k was pledged so I see no reason why that plan had to change. .
I believe the limit was 2300 and that it INCLUDED money contributed to a candidate. No?

Anyways, many of the pledges, particularly the large ones, were probably spam. The argument for a PAC isn't perfect.

tangent4ronpaul
12-04-2007, 06:10 PM
[QUOTE=dfalken;527872]The original plan obviously worked. As a PAC donations were limited to 5k (outside of campaign donations) and under that premise almost 500k was pledged so I see no reason why that plan had to change.

No, the original plan proposed to do something which CANNOT be done under the law. Campaign finance is a real thing. Read something, learn about it. NO PAC could donate more than 5,000.00 to Ron Paul's campaign.

NO donor could give more than 2,300.00. The blimp project COULD NOT advertise the Ron Paul candidacy. These ALL are facts. Wake up. What Trevor and company are doing is providing a solution to these legal constraints. Get off your high horse, understand somthing before you speak and before you slam people who, quite frankly, are better quality than those who slam them.

ahh - another post first, read second or never poster... you promote candidates running under the "Freedom Platform", which just happens to be Ron Paul's Platform, and since he's running for the highest office, he gets the lions share of ad space. We have 3 for sure, and I believe 4 candidates here in MD running for Congress under his platform. I know there are others in different states.

-n

John P Slevin
12-04-2007, 06:14 PM
tangent4RonPaul stupidly wrote: "That argument about the PAC is tired and has been debunked over and over and over again in these threads. YOU JUST ADD A BANNER WITH THE NAMES OF PEOPLE RUNNING FOR CONGRESS USING RON PAULS PLATFORM! - a small banner... legal condition met!"

Idiotic as well as illegal. You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about, so why do you post so much?

dude58677
12-04-2007, 06:15 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2370/2087814384_37c6c72358_o.jpg

:D

Then we should get Burt Rutan to do it for us.:D:cool:

LBT
12-04-2007, 06:58 PM
Many of the most successful promoters in the world had egomaniacal tendencies. Think Richard Branson or Steve Jobs.

Making things happen often involve mis-steps, but what leads to success is single minded determination. Trevor has ploughed forward many times despite harsh criticism. By doing so he has achieved a lot for this campaign. And as central decision maker under the spot light he has received a lot of criticism.

Fact is he stands up where others watch and wait, and he makes tough (if somewhat dubious) decisions and moves on to the next job.

We should just hope that Trevor continues to steam ahead despite all criticism. I suspect he will and that he will continue to surprise a lot of people as he did when he ploughed ahead with the Nov 5 campaign when the naysayers (I myself thought shooting for 10 mill was shooting yourself in the foot) complained about 10 mill being a stupid goal and that linking to the Vendetta movie and/or Guy Fawkes was a terrible idea.

Thank god he pushed ahead then and I think we'll be just as pleased if he keeps pushing ahead and we get to see thousands of Ron Paul supporters gathering proudly around that Blimp.

We ought to be more optimistic about what outcome is achievable and just get out there and promote donations to the blimp. Fear of the unknown holds most people back. It doesn't seem to slow Trevor down though. Maybe he's delusional and all he can see are the bright lights of success.......and maybe that is why he'll get there :D

DanK
12-04-2007, 07:37 PM
Many of the most successful promoters in the world had egomaniacal tendencies. Think Richard Branson or Steve Jobs.

Making things happen often involve mis-steps, but what leads to success is single minded determination. Trevor has ploughed forward many times despite harsh criticism. By doing so he has achieved a lot for this campaign. And as central decision maker under the spot light he has received a lot of criticism.

Fact is he stands up where others watch and wait, and he makes tough (if somewhat dubious) decisions and moves on to the next job.

We should just hope that Trevor continues to steam ahead despite all criticism. I suspect he will and that he will continue to surprise a lot of people as he did when he ploughed ahead with the Nov 5 campaign when the naysayers (I myself thought shooting for 10 mill was shooting yourself in the foot) complained about 10 mill being a stupid goal and that linking to the Vendetta movie and/or Guy Fawkes was a terrible idea.

Thank god he pushed ahead then and I think we'll be just as pleased if he keeps pushing ahead and we get to see thousands of Ron Paul supporters gathering proudly around that Blimp.

We ought to be more optimistic about what outcome is achievable and just get out there and promote donations to the blimp. Fear of the unknown holds most people back. It doesn't seem to slow Trevor down though. Maybe he's delusional and all he can see are the bright lights of success.......and maybe that is why he'll get there :D

Hard to argue with that :)

torchbearer
12-04-2007, 07:53 PM
here are the pictures of the actual blimp being pulled from the hanger:
http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/07/96/38/image_6238967.jpg
http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/08/95/38/image_6238958.jpg

From this article about the blimp: http://www.dailyadvance.com/search/content/news/stories/2007/12/03/1204ronpauljh.html

LukeNM
12-04-2007, 07:55 PM
Close thread -- let's more on already!