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presence
03-01-2015, 10:57 AM
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/activists-swarm-homan-square-demand-probe-chicagos-police-black-site/


Activists in Chicago are demanding a thorough investigation into Homan Square, a local detention facility which is being compared to a CIA black site. Several dozen protested on Saturday after police denied the accusations. RT.com (http://rt.com/usa/236549-chicago-protest-police-probe/)
Organized by Anonymous, Occupy, and Black Lives Matter, as well as a number of other groups, the ‘Shut Down Homan Square’ protest gathered around 200 people outside the detention facility in the city’s West Side.
Braving Saturday’s below-zero temperatures, the activists held banners and chanted slogans such as“Shut it down” and “Freedom first,” as well as “Indict, convict, send the torturers to jail.” They demanded a probe and changes at the facility after a report in the Guardian claimed it is used by Chicago police as a “secret interrogation facility.”
image: http://rt.com/files/news/39/c0/50/00/gc1.jpg
http://rt.com/files/news/39/c0/50/00/gc1.jpgScott Olson/Getty Images/AFP “Hopefully with the presence we expect to have, that will put a little bit of pressure to say, ‘Hey, look – this isn’t going to go away,’” said Travis McDermott, one of the organizers of the protest, as quoted by the Guardian.



Post (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205707443743307) by Jocelyn Walker (https://www.facebook.com/jocelyn.walker.14).
Later, dozens of protesters marched through nearby streets.
During Saturday’s demonstration, organizers called on people to come forward if their rights have ever been violated by police.
“We need you to come forth and tell us yes you have been a victim of abuse,” one organizer said, according to USA Today. “Please come forward and let the people know so we can take some action.”
image: http://rt.com/files/news/39/c0/50/00/gc2.jpg
http://rt.com/files/news/39/c0/50/00/gc2.jpgScott Olson/Getty Images/AFP

Anonymous took to Twitter, Instagram and other social media platforms with the hashtag #Gitmo2Chicago to draw attention to the so-called secret prison. “Torture soon coming to a city near you,” it stated.

“This will not stand,” the collective said in a video message (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKpByxrpdG8) posted on February 27.
According to the Guardian’s report, the compound houses military-style vehicles, interrogation cells, and a cage. People have “disappeared there” for 12-15 hours before being arraigned.
The newspaper spoke to an alleged former suspect at the site and several local attorneys who reported the Homan Square compound was being used to deny people their Fifth Amendment right to due process and Sixth Amendment right to an attorney.
Protesting on Saturday, activists demanded that anyone arrested in Chicago to be “booked immediately upon arrest and given access to a phone with which they can call an attorney.”
One of the major demands is “a special meeting be called within 10 days.” It would “allow the public to ask questions of supervising CPD officers about what happens inside Homan Square and other facilities.”
According to an announcement (https://www.facebook.com/events/772047659539836) on Facebook, the group has formally submitted the request, urging for it to be approved “immediately.”
Activists also demand that posters informing people of their rights be placed at all Chicago Police Department facilities.
“Everything that happens in this facility is off the books, so they can’t prove that these things never happened,” McDermott said.
image: http://rt.com/files/news/39/c0/50/00/gc4.jpg
http://rt.com/files/news/39/c0/50/00/gc4.jpgPhoto from facebook.com


In its only official statement, the Chicago Police Department denied the Guardian’s allegations.
Speaking to Chicago Tonight TV program, Mayor Rahm Emanuel said the report was not true. “We follow the rules,” he said.
image: http://rt.com/files/news/39/c0/50/00/gc3.jpg
http://rt.com/files/news/39/c0/50/00/gc3.jpgPhoto from facebook.com

Activists are planning another demonstration, dubbed ‘Reparations Not Black Sites,’ (https://www.facebook.com/events/1577913122454903) which will be held outside Emanuel’s office on March 2.
Republished with permission from Russia Today (http://rt.com/usa/236549-chicago-protest-police-probe/)




Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/activists-swarm-homan-square-demand-probe-chicagos-police-black-site/#xXLysujQGTA7MMus.99

phill4paul
03-01-2015, 11:20 AM
And yet the bricks remain intact. All in all...........

Uriel999
03-01-2015, 12:58 PM
And yet the bricks remain intact. All in all...........

I wonder how much it would cost to rent a wrecking ball for a few hours in Chicago?

Anti Federalist
03-01-2015, 01:01 PM
And yet the bricks remain intact. All in all...........

Talk in a bag...

tod evans
03-01-2015, 01:02 PM
Oooo-Oooo-Oooo!

Have they tried tweeterbooking SWLOD's yet?

brushfire
03-01-2015, 01:09 PM
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/54ed4ccb6bb3f71e068b456b/chicago-mayor-rahm-emanuel-will-have-to-fight-for-his-job-in-april.jpg?maxX=400

RonPaulIsGreat
03-01-2015, 01:22 PM
Blah, the only thing more useless than government is peaceful protest.

tod evans
03-01-2015, 01:24 PM
Blah, the only thing more useless than government is peaceful protest.

Weren't you supposed to bring the S'mores?

;)

muh_roads
03-01-2015, 01:34 PM
I've heard these black sites have always existed. But I thought the CIA operated them in shipping containers owned by foreign countries in International Airports...

randomname
03-01-2015, 01:57 PM
this will have 0 coverage and 0 traction.

kcchiefs6465
03-01-2015, 03:07 PM
The negativity is incredible.

God forbid someone actually go out and protest. Surely the Chicago black site would be closer to closed had they simply talked shit on the internet.

mosquitobite
03-01-2015, 03:39 PM
The negativity is incredible.

God forbid someone actually go out and protest. Surely the Chicago black site would be closer to closed had they simply talked shit on the internet.

I agree! this actually brought tears to my eyes thinking "finally! people are waking up!" I suppose some would like to instigate a full blown revolution. how well did that work in Ferguson?

tod evans
03-01-2015, 03:46 PM
I agree! this actually brought tears to my eyes thinking "finally! people are waking up!" I suppose some would like to instigate a full blown revolution. how well did that work in Ferguson?

Ferguson was most definitely NOT a full blown revolution..

Now the Bundy Ranch had the makings of one but it wasn't either....

enhanced_deficit
03-01-2015, 03:54 PM
Great use of their right to raise awareness about this and there should be an an investigation.


Braving Saturday’s below-zero temperatures, the activists held banners and chanted slogans such as“Shut it down” and “Freedom first,” as well as “Indict, convict, send the torturers to jail.”

DDG handlers are not going to do that as then GOP is going to call for drone killing war crimes investigation.

But this protest does increase public awareness and helps building of a slow tide against oppression.

KCIndy
03-01-2015, 04:03 PM
Well, it's true that the protesters have yet to raid a National Guard Armory, seize all the guns and tanks, teach themselves how to use them, find fuel, ammo, and other supporters and then overthrow the combined powers of the local, state and Federal forces in a spectacular Hollywood style explosive shootout.

Go figure. How neglectful of them.

But I have to give credit where credit is due. Getting out in the cold and yelling and waving signs and giving people direct warning of what's going on is a helluva lot more than I've done personally. I'm guessing no one else here has done more either.

And they're getting noticed. There's been a lot of news coverage. A LOT of news coverage:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&authuser=0&q=%22Homan+Square%22&oq=%22Homan+Square%22&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j43i53.2258.5676.0.6130.14.9.0.5.0.0.226.1 124.3j5j1.9.0...0.0...1ac.1.C50rKyM1YtY

Most recent development: The Chicago Police Department has been forced to release a Cover-Yer-Ass press announcement making the hasty claim nothing is going on:


CHICAGO (WLS) --
The Chicago Police Department released a fact sheet Sunday disputing claims they operate a secretive facility in Homan Square on Chicago's West Side where criminal suspects are denied basic rights.

The fact sheet is three pages: one detailing facility facts, one addressing what experts are saying regarding claims of abuse and the last page explaining the department's arrest and interview procedures.

The information refutes all claims of abuse. Police say Homan Square open to the public as home to CPD's Evidence and Recovered Property Section, where "members of the public can collect evidence recovered during now complete criminal investigations, or found property."

They also say Homan Square is "the base of operations for officers working undercover assignments. These men and women dress in plain clothes and work to disrupt gang activity and clear drug markets out of neighborhoods. Advertising their base of operations could put their lives at risk, which is why Homan Square features little signage."

On Sunday. It was important enough to try to tamp this down they released this on Sunday.

Maybe they're trying to cut down the possibility of even BIGGER crowds on Monday.

donnay
03-01-2015, 04:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lBHfN6IpCw#t=44

KCIndy
03-01-2015, 04:31 PM
CHICAGO TRIBUNE:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-protesters-target-homan-square-police-facility-20150228-story.html

Activists gathered Saturday to demand the closing of a Chicago Police Department facility after allegations surfaced that officers abused the rights of people detained for questioning.

Several people gathered said they learned about the allegations in pieces published in the British newspaper The Guardian, which described the department’s Homan Square facility on the West Side as a “black site.”


USA TODAY:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/28/activists-protest-alleged-chicago-police-black-sites/24180197/

Activists in Chicago gathered Saturday for a protest and march against alleged "black sites" in the city where police supposedly hold suspects and witnesses for long periods without public records and access to lawyers.

In an investigative report, The Guardian charges that the Chicago Police Department operates an off-the-books interrogation compound in Homan Square, rendering Americans unable to be found by family or attorneys while locked inside what lawyers told the paper is the domestic equivalent of a CIA black site. Police deny the claims.


WLS CHICAGO:

http://abc7chicago.com/news/cpd-releases-fact-sheet-on-homan-square-facility/539346/

CHICAGO (WLS) --
The Chicago Police Department released a fact sheet Sunday disputing claims they operate a secretive facility in Homan Square on Chicago's West Side where criminal suspects are denied basic rights.

The fact sheet is three pages: one detailing facility facts, one addressing what experts are saying regarding claims of abuse and the last page explaining the department's arrest and interview procedures.

The information refutes all claims of abuse. Police say Homan Square open to the public as home to CPD's Evidence and Recovered Property Section, where "members of the public can collect evidence recovered during now complete criminal investigations, or found property."


CBS:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/02/28/protestors-demand-chicago-police-close-homan-square-facility/
CHICAGO (CBS) – Accusations by a British newspaper of brutality at a West Side Chicago police facility prompted about 75 to protest and demand its closure, reports WBBM’s Bob Roberts.

The Guardian newspaper calls the Homan Square narcotics investigation facility a “black site” at which those arrested are beaten and denied access to lawyers and others. Police have denied the allegations.



WGN CHICAGO:

http://wgntv.com/2015/02/28/activists-protest-cpd-at-homan-square-after-uk-black-site-reports/

CHICAGO — More than 100 Protesters gathered outside the Chicago Police Homan Square facility Saturday in response to a series of articles from the British newspaper, The Guardian.

The paper reports that the nondescript building at Fillmore and Homan on the city’s West Side is used as an alleged “off the books interrogation facility” where people “disappear” and have been beaten by police and denied access to attorneys, among other allegations. The Guardian also detailed claims against a former Chicago Police detective with ties to Guantanamo Bay.

Protesters are demanding an independent investigation into what happens at the facility.

idiom
03-01-2015, 05:03 PM
If you wanna see some shit, Get some Senators to join the protest on Monday.

Working Poor
03-01-2015, 05:26 PM
If you wanna see some shit, Get some Senators to join the protest on Monday.

Like that would happen....

devil21
03-01-2015, 05:29 PM
Here's the original report from Guardian
(oops this is the original)
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site
(follow up)
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/27/chicago-abusive-confinment-homan-square

Cleaner44
03-01-2015, 06:33 PM
Here is the address of the location:
3340 W Fillmore St
Chicago, IL 60624 ‎

You can see map on Google here:
http://goo.gl/maps/WVCFd

You can see cop cars parked these with street view:
http://goo.gl/maps/dktAz

vita3
03-01-2015, 06:40 PM
Anyone know any concrete facts about this place?

Carson
03-01-2015, 07:00 PM
The Google map says, "Chicago Police Department - Prostitution". (https://www.google.com/maps/place/3393+W+Fillmore+St,+Chicago,+IL+60624/@41.867223,-87.7115231,17z/data=!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x880e3291c97db55f:0x5e770bd44 e591f20!2s3393+W+Fillmore+St,+Chicago,+IL+60624!3b 1!3m1!1s0x880e3291c97db55f:0x5e770bd44e591f20)

It sounds like they go all out there.

idiom
03-01-2015, 07:01 PM
Like that would happen....

If Rand when down there, with Amash... and 5,000 or 10,000 or his closest supporters and a tonne of news vans.

Well. It would be a turning point.

America hasn't had a leader with actual balls in a long long time.

devil21
03-01-2015, 07:37 PM
Apologies for the link I posted above as "original". That was a follow up. This is the original report. Disturbing!

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site


The Chicago police department operates an off-the-books interrogation compound, rendering Americans unable to be found by family or attorneys while locked inside what lawyers say is the domestic equivalent of a CIA black site.

The facility, a nondescript warehouse on Chicago’s west side known as Homan Square, has long been the scene of secretive work by special police units. Interviews with local attorneys and one protester who spent the better part of a day shackled in Homan Square describe operations that deny access to basic constitutional rights.

Alleged police practices at Homan Square, according to those familiar with the facility who spoke out to the Guardian after its investigation into Chicago police abuse, include:

Keeping arrestees out of official booking databases.
Beating by police, resulting in head wounds.
Shackling for prolonged periods.
Denying attorneys access to the “secure” facility.
Holding people without legal counsel for between 12 and 24 hours, including people as young as 15.

At least one man was found unresponsive in a Homan Square “interview room” and later pronounced dead.

Brian Jacob Church, a protester known as one of the “Nato Three”, was held and questioned at Homan Square in 2012 following a police raid. Officers restrained Church for the better part of a day, denying him access to an attorney, before sending him to a nearby police station to be booked and charged.

“Homan Square is definitely an unusual place,” Church told the Guardian on Friday. “It brings to mind the interrogation facilities they use in the Middle East. The CIA calls them black sites. It’s a domestic black site. When you go in, no one knows what’s happened to you.”

The secretive warehouse is the latest example of Chicago police practices that echo the much-criticized detention abuses of the US war on terrorism. While those abuses impacted people overseas, Homan Square – said to house military-style vehicles, interrogation cells and even a cage – trains its focus on Americans, most often poor, black and brown.

Unlike a precinct, no one taken to Homan Square is said to be booked. Witnesses, suspects or other Chicagoans who end up inside do not appear to have a public, searchable record entered into a database indicating where they are, as happens when someone is booked at a precinct. Lawyers and relatives insist there is no way of finding their whereabouts. Those lawyers who have attempted to gain access to Homan Square are most often turned away, even as their clients remain in custody inside.

“It’s sort of an open secret among attorneys that regularly make police station visits, this place – if you can’t find a client in the system, odds are they’re there,” said Chicago lawyer Julia Bartmes.

Chicago civil-rights attorney Flint Taylor said Homan Square represented a routinization of a notorious practice in local police work that violates the fifth and sixth amendments of the constitution.

“This Homan Square revelation seems to me to be an institutionalization of the practice that dates back more than 40 years,” Taylor said, “of violating a suspect or witness’ rights to a lawyer and not to be physically or otherwise coerced into giving a statement.”

Much remains hidden about Homan Square. The Chicago police department did not respond to the Guardian’s questions about the facility. But after the Guardian published this story, the department provided a statement insisting, without specifics, that there is nothing untoward taking place at what it called the “sensitive” location, home to undercover units.

“CPD [Chicago police department] abides by all laws, rules and guidelines pertaining to any interviews of suspects or witnesses, at Homan Square or any other CPD facility. If lawyers have a client detained at Homan Square, just like any other facility, they are allowed to speak to and visit them. It also houses CPD’s Evidence Recovered Property Section, where the public is able to claim inventoried property,” the statement said, something numerous attorneys and one Homan Square arrestee have denied.

“There are always records of anyone who is arrested by CPD, and this is not any different at Homan Square,” it continued.

The Chicago police statement did not address how long into an arrest or detention those records are generated or their availability to the public. A department spokesperson did not respond to a detailed request for clarification.

When a Guardian reporter arrived at the warehouse on Friday, a man at the gatehouse outside refused any entrance and would not answer questions. “This is a secure facility. You’re not even supposed to be standing here,” said the man, who refused to give his name.

A former Chicago police superintendent and a more recently retired detective, both of whom have been inside Homan Square in the last few years in a post-police capacity, said the police department did not operate out of the warehouse until the late 1990s.

But in detailing episodes involving their clients over the past several years, lawyers described mad scrambles that led to the closed doors of Homan Square, a place most had never heard of previously. The facility was even unknown to Rob Warden, the founder of Northwestern University Law School’s Center on Wrongful Convictions, until the Guardian informed him of the allegations of clients who vanish into inherently coercive police custody.

“They just disappear,” said Anthony Hill, a criminal defense attorney, “until they show up at a district for charging or are just released back out on the street.”

MUCH more at link...long article

---------------------------------------------

If Rand when down there, with Amash... and 5,000 or 10,000 or his closest supporters and a tonne of news vans.

Well. It would be a turning point.

America hasn't had a leader with actual balls in a long long time.

I agree. Just the symbolism of Rand and others appearing in Obama and Rahm's backyard would be epic.

specsaregood
03-01-2015, 07:43 PM
I agree. Just the symbolism of Rand and others appearing in Obama and Rahm's backyard would be epic.

Indeed. Especially since Obama just mentioned Randal going to Chicago in that speech recently. Talking about screaming at the top of his lungs and whatnot. If this is legit; this is a golden opportunity for Sen. Paul!

mosquitobite
03-01-2015, 07:51 PM
I agree. Just the symbolism of Rand and others appearing in Obama and Rahm's backyard would be epic.

Wow. Imagine him knocking on the door and asking to tour the facility... Unannounced.

devil21
03-01-2015, 08:04 PM
Wow. Imagine him knocking on the door and asking to tour the facility... Unannounced.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDKdHuyQpHY

oyarde
03-01-2015, 08:06 PM
Rahm says he follows the rules. He just did not say which rules .

Mani
03-01-2015, 11:57 PM
They also say Homan Square is "the base of operations for officers working undercover assignments. These men and women dress in plain clothes and work to disrupt gang activity and clear drug markets out of neighborhoods. Advertising their base of operations could put their lives at risk, which is why Homan Square features little signage."


Oh it's to get rid of the drugs!!!


Boy that war on drugs is really helpful to abduct people for nefarious reasons and call it keeping the streets safe..I'm sure cops would have no problem supporting the legalization movement..:rolleyes:

BV2
03-02-2015, 12:19 AM
I wonder how much it would cost to rent a wrecking ball for a few hours in Chicago?

You mean before or after you post a several million dollar bond?

RonPaulIsGreat
03-02-2015, 03:29 AM
The negativity is incredible.

God forbid someone actually go out and protest. Surely the Chicago black site would be closer to closed had they simply talked shit on the internet.

They aren't any closer to being closed because of the protests either.

A protest only works if it is backed by the threat of loss to the other party. If I protest Walmart, and then do my shopping at walmart, would walmart care? Nope. If I protest walmart and stop shopping at walmart in total, would they care, a tiny bit. If I protest Walmart and a 1000 others in the area protest walmart and stop shopping there, would they care, yeah quite a bit.

My question is what is the "threat" if they don't shut down the black sites. I don't see one, so what is the likelihood that your adversary will change behavior when threatened with zero loss if they don't? They won't. Same as walmart.

idiom
03-02-2015, 05:01 AM
They aren't any closer to being closed because of the protests either.

A protest only works if it is backed by the threat of loss to the other party. If I protest Walmart, and then do my shopping at walmart, would walmart care? Nope. If I protest walmart and stop shopping at walmart in total, would they care, a tiny bit. If I protest Walmart and a 1000 others in the area protest walmart and stop shopping there, would they care, yeah quite a bit.

My question is what is the "threat" if they don't shut down the black sites. I don't see one, so what is the likelihood that your adversary will change behavior when threatened with zero loss if they don't? They won't. Same as walmart.

The population is right on the edge of a full blown war on cops. After that pair got shot in NY they were begging the media to tone down the anti-cop rhetoric.

They have a lot more to lose than Wal-Mart.

jmdrake
03-02-2015, 05:45 AM
Blah, the only thing more useless than government is peaceful protest.

The only thing more useless than a peaceful protest is a comment on an Internet forum.


The negativity is incredible.

God forbid someone actually go out and protest. Surely the Chicago black site would be closer to closed had they simply talked shit on the internet.

^this

jmdrake
03-02-2015, 05:52 AM
They also say Homan Square is "the base of operations for officers working undercover assignments. These men and women dress in plain clothes and work to disrupt gang activity and clear drug markets out of neighborhoods. Advertising their base of operations could put their lives at risk, which is why Homan Square features little signage."

Oh it's to get rid of the drugs!!!


Boy that war on drugs is really helpful to abduct people for nefarious reasons and call it keeping the streets safe..I'm sure cops would have no problem supporting the legalization movement..:rolleyes:

Hmmmm.....so Chicago police admit the black site exists, deny that they are doing anything illegal, and claim that it's important for the bases operations for the site not to be "advertised." So this protest by itself can shut down Homan Square simply by bringing attention to it! Someone should put some webcams around it to video ever car entering and leaving and broadcasting it realtime over the Internet. That will make Homan Square useless as an undercover base of operations.

jmdrake
03-02-2015, 05:54 AM
They aren't any closer to being closed because of the protests either.

A protest only works if it is backed by the threat of loss to the other party. If I protest Walmart, and then do my shopping at walmart, would walmart care? Nope. If I protest walmart and stop shopping at walmart in total, would they care, a tiny bit. If I protest Walmart and a 1000 others in the area protest walmart and stop shopping there, would they care, yeah quite a bit.

My question is what is the "threat" if they don't shut down the black sites. I don't see one, so what is the likelihood that your adversary will change behavior when threatened with zero loss if they don't? They won't. Same as walmart.

The biggest threat to Homan square, according to the people running it, is exposure. The protest is a way to bring exposure to it.

juleswin
03-02-2015, 06:07 AM
The justice department would be coming down on them anytime ..............................now.

Yes, protesting is 1000x more activism than playing keyboard warrior. At least some people left their house to confront albeit a peaceful one. At least we know after the visit from the protestors, the police thugs will have to temper their activity down or yet find another venue

pcosmar
03-02-2015, 06:53 AM
Anyone know any concrete facts about this place?

It is Chicago.
The police are incredibly corrupt.
Human rights are abused.

It is Chicago.. what further facts do you need?

juleswin
03-02-2015, 07:01 AM
It is Chicago.
The police are incredibly corrupt.
Human rights are abused.

It is Chicago.. what further facts do you need?

Yea, police are corrupt and it maybe used for illegal stuff. But he is asking for concrete evidence like stuff you can use in a court like pictures, witness testimony etc etc. For all we know, it could just be a place where the police go to do drugs and have marathon orgies. Which is still illegal and stuff the police would like to hide from the public but still different from a detention and torture site

kcchiefs6465
03-02-2015, 08:14 AM
They aren't any closer to being closed because of the protests either.

A protest only works if it is backed by the threat of loss to the other party. If I protest Walmart, and then do my shopping at walmart, would walmart care? Nope. If I protest walmart and stop shopping at walmart in total, would they care, a tiny bit. If I protest Walmart and a 1000 others in the area protest walmart and stop shopping there, would they care, yeah quite a bit.

My question is what is the "threat" if they don't shut down the black sites. I don't see one, so what is the likelihood that your adversary will change behavior when threatened with zero loss if they don't? They won't. Same as walmart.
People simply being outside of the location would discourage any additional suspects from being brought there. Is it likely that if their makeshift jail is closed they will simply move to another location? Perhaps. Without awareness that there is even such a location, (with said awareness being encouraged through protesting) there is no chance that they would even move location.

And they are not going to like the media attention, even if it's simply an alternative one. The cars pulling in and out of that building are undercovers, the people coming and going, too. They do not want their pictures across the internet. Not to mention that with more attention would come the whores from the whore houses for a photo op. While politicians aren't generally moral or upstanding specimens of human existence, they certainly know which way the wind blows. And even with knowing that relatively few even showed up to protest, and I'm sure some of the shit talkers here live within driving distance, politicians know that America isn't quite to the point where secret prisons would be tolerated by the police. But by all means, simply watching RT coverage of the injustice then discussing it on the internet is leaps and bounds more productive than organizing and 'obstructing' outside of the jail.

pcosmar
03-02-2015, 08:18 AM
Yea, police are corrupt and it maybe used for illegal stuff. But he is asking for concrete evidence like stuff you can use in a court,,,
Whose court?

Who is going to prosecute??

What makes you think that any such evidence would be allowed?

Seriously.
:(

Stratovarious
03-02-2015, 11:42 AM
I certainly applaud the protesters (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/#w0), you see a lot of unity out there too, you see all colors , this must piss off that piece of Constitution Hating #### in the White House.

To give teeth to this movement, they need to interview actual victims of the site, in the old silent/voice disguised News Interview , like CBS , or NBC
did in the days of old.
Gotta interview the victims, they don't have to have to been beaten unconscious (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/#w1) or the like,,,,,, just any indication (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/#w2) their rights were violated (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/#w3), all of our rights are of critical importance, let one fall , the rest will quickly follow.

juleswin
03-02-2015, 11:46 AM
Whose court?

Who is going to prosecute??

What makes you think that any such evidence would be allowed?

Seriously.
:(

Good point, to be truthful, I was thinking about state courts. But even a court of public opinion would do. The point in asking for concrete evidence is that someone in power could really embarrass themselves if they jump on this outrage and it turns out the site was used for something unrelated to torture or imprisonment. Maybe, its a site where undercover police, informants and such meet up. Or maybe its a place where other illegal activities other than torture/detainment take place.

JK/SEA
03-02-2015, 12:14 PM
haha...you guys expect me to believe this?...police are hero's...

pretty sure policy was followed.

ZENemy
03-02-2015, 12:16 PM
2 dead ny cops changed more in 1 day then 50 years of protesting.

phill4paul
03-02-2015, 12:19 PM
Allegation of cops using heroin as interrogation method. Nothing concrete but bears watching nonetheless.


Chicago, Illinois (TFC) – One of the more troubling aspects of the Homan Square interrogation facility is the death of John Hubbard who is said to have died of an accidental heroin overdose while in police custody after buying drugs from an undercover officer.

Prior to the other revelations about Homan Square, it would have just been assumed that the cops were incompetent and let the suspect shoot up the evidence. Then it would have been assumed that they were lazy when parts of the file missing. After the explosive revelations about the facility, the public has to wonder how a suspect was capable of shooting up while inside of a police facility. It is highly unlikely that a suspect on the verge of overdose would be out attempting to purchase narcotics. The only likely scenario is that he injected, or someone else injected him with, the narcotics inside the police facility.

In light of the situation, The Fifth Column began reaching out to other victims of Homan Square. One of those was Jose Gonzales. During our interview he relayed his story:

It began the way most of the incidents involving Homan Square do. A no-knock raid sent police storming into his house. They wore no uniforms and arrived in an unmarked minivan. They said they had a warrant, but wouldn’t let him see it. His pregnant cousin was pushed to the ground, his grandmother and the kids in the house had automatic weapons shoved in their faces, and Jose was taken away. They searched the home and found no drugs.

He was placed in an interview room inside of Homan Square where there was red stuff on the floor that he believes was blood. The police began asking him questions about narcotics deals. Jose couldn’t answer the questions not just because he wasn’t really involved in drugs, but because the Jose Gonzales the cops were looking for was born in the 1960s. Jose is currently 27. The police weren’t happy with Jose’s constant denials and statements that he didn’t know anything. He repeatedly requested a lawyer, but he was never allowed one. That’s when they told the handcuffed and shackled Jose that they were going to inject him with heroin to make him talk.

When Jose was telling his story this was a tiny detail that he glossed by, and I’m not sure if he realized exactly how important the bizarre threat was. In talking to him it definitely seemed like he wanted me to know that they beat people in the place and that there was blood on the floor. The heroin threat was kind of an afterthought.

He went on to tell me about them finally realizing they had the wrong guy. They told him they were going to charge him with a misdemeanor involving marijuana even though they didn’t find any pot. He had been held for more than 24 hours without access to a lawyer before he was allowed to leave. The officers didn’t allow Jose to use the phone to call somebody to pick him up and since he didn’t have any cash, Jose had to walk several miles back to his home. He never received a court date for the misdemeanor.

The story was confirmed by documentation involving the misdemeanor and by witnesses to his abduction and return. What was said inside the interrogation room can only be confirmed by the cops. I have to admit that in light of Chicago Police Department’s implausible explanations related to the heroin overdose that happened while in custody, I didn’t even call the department for comment. Eventually journalists reach a point where they are tired of being openly lied to by government officials.

http://thefifthcolumnnews.com/2015/03/homan-square-allegation-cops-use-heroin-on-suspects-during-interrogations/

jmdrake
03-02-2015, 12:27 PM
Good point, to be truthful, I was thinking about state courts. But even a court of public opinion would do. The point in asking for concrete evidence is that someone in power could really embarrass themselves if they jump on this outrage and it turns out the site was used for something unrelated to torture or imprisonment. Maybe, its a site where undercover police, informants and such meet up. Or maybe its a place where other illegal activities other than torture/detainment take place.

Well the police have admitted the site exists after a peace activist claimed to have been imprisoned there. How else would she know about the existence of a secret undercover facility other than having been detained there? To me that's pretty concrete. Of course we have General Hayden still trying to claim all the NSA collects is metadata despite all of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Liars gonna lie.

Anti Federalist
03-02-2015, 01:52 PM
The negativity is incredible.

God forbid someone actually go out and protest. Surely the Chicago black site would be closer to closed had they simply talked shit on the internet.

I apologize for being beat down and cynical.

200 people?

I was part of a quarter of a million people that shut down NYC protesting the wars, ten years ago now.

Fat lot of good that did.

Tod is right.

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the fuckers back.

kcchiefs6465
03-02-2015, 02:59 PM
I apologize for being beat down and cynical.

200 people?

I was part of a quarter of a million people that shut down NYC protesting the wars, ten years ago now.

Fat lot of good that did.

Tod is right.

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the fuckers back.
Let us assume for argument's sake that this is true. Why the hate? I might think people should focus on educational efforts rather than elections but for instance I didn't come into Shem's thread with sarcastic remarks about him changing the world. To each their own. Frankly I'm glad that a couple hundred people would show up on a below freezing day with signs about the police state. Surely they could have just sat at home... as a couple hundred million of their collective peers did.

Anti Federalist
03-02-2015, 07:18 PM
Let us assume for argument's sake that this is true. Why the hate? I might think people should focus on educational efforts rather than elections but for instance I didn't come into Shem's thread with sarcastic remarks about him changing the world. To each their own. Frankly I'm glad that a couple hundred people would show up on a below freezing day with signs about the police state. Surely they could have just sat at home... as a couple hundred million of their collective peers did.

No hate.

None at all.

Very happy to see them there, if I lived in Chicago I'd have been there myself.

I'm just tired, brother...I'll step off now.

BV2
03-02-2015, 07:29 PM
I apologize for being beat down and cynical.

200 people?

I was part of a quarter of a million people that shut down NYC protesting the wars, ten years ago now.

Fat lot of good that did.

Tod is right.

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the fuckers back.
We can't Bundy Ranch Homan. We lack the critical mass, weapons, and terrain.

jmdrake
03-02-2015, 07:33 PM
I apologize for being beat down and cynical.

200 people?

I was part of a quarter of a million people that shut down NYC protesting the wars, ten years ago now.

Fat lot of good that did.

Tod is right.

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the fuckers back.

Let's see. Ten years ago Bush was in power. Not hard to get hundreds of thousands in NYC to protect his war. Now that Obama's in power......

Chicago is Obama's hometown. An antiwar protester gets arrested and you expect rank and file Chicagoans to protest? Now cal me super cynical but I bet you wouldn't get nearly as many gun toting freedom loving types to go protest at Bundy's ranch if we had a McCain/Palin presidency. Really, right now more republicans than democrats are against the NSA and that number was reversed 10 years ago. People pull out their pom poms to cheer for their team jeer the other guys. Folks like you that actually have principles instead of party affiliations are the exception not the rule. That's why I was like "meh" when Ron Paul talked about the Congressional Black Caucus only wanting to save war money for food stamps. His comment was not about race. It was about partisanship versus principles.

osan
03-02-2015, 07:53 PM
Look! Several dozen people are protesting. We're saved.

osan
03-02-2015, 07:56 PM
Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the fuckers back.

Not sure of that. I'd almost bet they would simply rewrite the ROEs. With media on Theire side, it would be doable. Perhaps not a cake-walk, but then again...

Mani
03-02-2015, 10:42 PM
People simply being outside of the location would discourage any additional suspects from being brought there. Is it likely that if their makeshift jail is closed they will simply move to another location? Perhaps. Without awareness that there is even such a location, (with said awareness being encouraged through protesting) there is no chance that they would even move location.

And they are not going to like the media attention, even if it's simply an alternative one. The cars pulling in and out of that building are undercovers, the people coming and going, too. They do not want their pictures across the internet. Not to mention that with more attention would come the whores from the whore houses for a photo op. While politicians aren't generally moral or upstanding specimens of human existence, they certainly know which way the wind blows. And even with knowing that relatively few even showed up to protest, and I'm sure some of the shit talkers here live within driving distance, politicians know that America isn't quite to the point where secret prisons would be tolerated by the police. But by all means, simply watching RT coverage of the injustice then discussing it on the internet is leaps and bounds more productive than organizing and 'obstructing' outside of the jail.

^ This.


While 200 protestors doesn't sound like anything, when all 200 have camera phones and are recording who is going IN AND OUT of a UNDERCOVER TORTURE black site, you can bet that's going to piss the fuck out of cops.


And if those 200 camera phones are able to identify a prisoner who walks in, but then walks out bloodied and broken boned, you bet your ass that can be used to shut a place like this down.

And if the cops decide not to beat the fuck out of someone and throw him out of the building because 200 camera phones are recording, then you just saved how many people from getting their asses beat?????


Sometimes even a few surveillancing the police CAN make a difference. Even if just one person inside that building or outside was saved a needless beating or unlawful imprisonment because some people showed up to protest it, then it was worth it. As KC said they could always use an alternative or make a new one, but you never know, someone could have been saved a beating as a cop car decides to turn around and dump someone instead of heading into a place full of protestors.


And if the cops become paranoid there are people who could be walking around with camera phones around that site at any time, maybe that site becomes useless. Exposing it, and the threat of people being around to surveillance it, does cause some damage. So even if it's only 50 people who showed up, yes it does make a difference.

Mani
03-02-2015, 11:08 PM
I apologize for being beat down and cynical.

200 people?

I was part of a quarter of a million people that shut down NYC protesting the wars, ten years ago now.

Fat lot of good that did.

Tod is right.

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the fuckers back.


You can't compare the two situations.

I think it's amazing that you participated in that, but remember that's a war. That's elite of the elite few billionaires and the few power brokers on this earth playing their war games and making big profits and moving along with their agenda. Maybe if a quarter of a billion people protest you can do something, but even then I'm not sure.


This is a local city, small scale illegal black site, I think the voices are a lot more effective at this level. The few times I met Ron Paul in 2006/2007 and later, even before he was running for office, he always used to emphasize making changes at the local level. These sites can be disrupted and protests can be useful. Putting a spotlight on them does hamper their effectiveness. It doesn't solve the problem completely, but it's a good start.

limequat
03-03-2015, 10:57 AM
Let's see. Ten years ago Bush was in power. Not hard to get hundreds of thousands in NYC to protect his war. Now that Obama's in power......

Chicago is Obama's hometown. An antiwar protester gets arrested and you expect rank and file Chicagoans to protest? Now cal me super cynical but I bet you wouldn't get nearly as many gun toting freedom loving types to go protest at Bundy's ranch if we had a McCain/Palin presidency. Really, right now more republicans than democrats are against the NSA and that number was reversed 10 years ago. People pull out their pom poms to cheer for their team jeer the other guys. Folks like you that actually have principles instead of party affiliations are the exception not the rule. That's why I was like "meh" when Ron Paul talked about the Congressional Black Caucus only wanting to save war money for food stamps. His comment was not about race. It was about partisanship versus principles.

Consider that only about 1/3 of the eligible voting population bothers to vote. That means 2/3rds sees through the partisan bullshit. These are the people we need out in the streets.

ChristianAnarchist
03-04-2015, 09:17 AM
The only thing more useless than a peaceful protest is a comment on an Internet forum.




I see what u did there... ;)

devil21
03-26-2015, 02:28 AM
The Chicago PD commander in charge of the secret jail has resigned.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/19/senior-chicago-police-commander-resigns-homan-square

Great right? Not really, he's going to the state popo now. The revolving door continues.

Weston White
03-26-2015, 03:57 AM
Cronyism: "Chief Roti left CPD to become the chief of staff for the Illinois state police [ISP], where he will work for another recently departed senior CPD official who was appointed to be the director of ISP."

Tomatoes or potatoes: corporatism, cronyism, nepotism, and botulism.

ETA:

I love it!


Roti’s annual salary was $176,532. A local website cited Roti in 2014 as the 16th highest-paid public official in Chicago. The superintendent of police, cited as the highest paid Chicago public servant, is listed as making $260,000 annually. Mayor Rahm Emanuel makes $216, 210.

One-third of state police employees earn more than $100,000 (http://www.sj-r.com/x1002429386/One-third-of-state-police-employees-earn-more-than-100-000?zc_p=3)

jmdrake
03-26-2015, 06:35 AM
The Chicago PD commander in charge of the secret jail has resigned.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/19/senior-chicago-police-commander-resigns-homan-square

Great right? Not really, he's going to the state popo now. The revolving door continues.

Note that this is still only being covered in the foreign media.

JK/SEA
03-26-2015, 10:04 AM
They shut it down, and move it somewhere else with better knowledge on how to cover it up...

nothing changes.