[Video] Judge Napolitano debates former NSA director Michael Hayden at CPAC 2015

[jct74]

http://www.c-span.org/video/?324558-6/privacy-security



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7D5IdDmLEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7D5IdDmLEo

[EBounding]

It's pretty incredible. This discussion would not exist at all at CPAC 8-10 years ago, let alone with a largely pro-privacy crowd.

[jct74]

I've been looking to see if MOXNEWS had the tubes but I can't find any channel where he is currently uploading videos. Does anyone know his current channel or did he finally give up?

[Suzanimal]

Just a clip...


Former NSA chief tries to claim he’s an “unrelenting libertarian”—CPAC’s reaction is priceless


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufpv_Q7yhG8


Former NSA chief Michael Hayden took to the stage at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) earlier today to debate Fox News personality Judge Andrew Napolitano over the government’s collection of metadata.
“The judge is an unrelenting libertarian,” Hayden declared after Napolitano’s opening statement. “So am I.”
The crowd immediately booed and several attendees shouted: “No you’re not!”

Read more at http://rare.us/story/former-nsa-chief-tries-to-claim-hes-an-unrelenting-libertarian-cpacs-reaction-is-priceless/#Zokr5x67VIf8l0zI.99

[Suzanimal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzRpaSa5OMo

[jmdrake]

It's pretty incredible. This discussion would not exist at all at CPAC 8-10 years ago, let alone with a largely pro-privacy crowd.

That's in part because 10 years ago Bush was still president. It's funny that it took a democrat in the whitehouse to all of a sudden make republicans skeptical again of government abuse of power.

Please read: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/12/poll-republicans-hate-nsa-spying-democrats-are-ambivalent/

[Lucille]

Just a clip...

Former NSA chief tries to claim he’s an “unrelenting libertarian”—CPAC’s reaction is priceless


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufpv_Q7yhG8

Read more at http://rare.us/story/former-nsa-chief-tries-to-claim-hes-an-unrelenting-libertarian-cpacs-reaction-is-priceless/#Zokr5x67VIf8l0zI.99

The Judge (and the Crowd)
http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/the-judge-and-the-crowd/


Take down ex-Stasi chief.

‘No You’re Not!’ Former NSA Chief Heckled for Calling Himself a ‘Libertarian’ at CPAC
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/no-youre-not-former-nsa-head-heckled-for-calling-himself-a-libertarian-at-cpac/


Hayden was at the conference for a debate with Fox News senior judicial analyst and staunch libertarian Judge Andrew Napolitano, moderated by FBN’s Lou Dobbs. After Napolitano implored the audience to be “outraged” by the National Security Agency’s widespread surveillance programs, first unearthed in 2012 by whistleblowers like Edward Snowden, Hayden stood up and said, “If NSA were even capable of doing what the judge has just outlined for you, we wouldn’t be having a debate here today. There would be nothing to argue about.”

He continued: “Let’s talk about reality. Let’s talk about facts. The judge is an unrelenting libertarian.” That line drew large applause from an audience likely composed of many of the judge’s (and Sen. Rand Paul‘s) devoted fans. That fact would explain what happened next.

“So am I,” Hayden claimed as the crowd booed. Several people shouted “No, you’re not!”

“I’m an unrelenting libertarian,” Hayden insisted, “who’s also responsible for four decades of his life for another important part of [the Constitution], the part that says ‘provide for the common defense.’”

Let this scribe settle the debate and definitively state for Hayden: No, you are not.

Now the progs in the red jerseys are going to try to bastardize "libertarian" just like the progs in the blue jerseys bastardized "liberal."

[jct74]

here's the full video from the official CPAC channel



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7D5IdDmLEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7D5IdDmLEo

[kcchiefs6465]

General Hayden is a war criminal and should be, if Leavenworth is to remain open, at the very bottom of that penitentiary.

[Scrooge McDuck]

Judge calls him out on Ukraine. Awesome

[jmdrake]

Judge calls him out on Ukraine. Awesome

That was good. But I was a bit disappointed overall. Hayden got away with straight up lying. I wish this had been a larger panel discussion that included at least one whisteblower from the NSA or from a tech company. We've got hard evidence to prove that the NSA does more than just collect metadata. Even back in 2007 there was proof that the NSA was datamining content.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/view/

[Matt Collins]

the Judge was way too graceful here.

[JK/SEA]

the Judge was way too graceful here.

the judge should have stood over Hayden and said...''you like violence you motherfucker?''...here.....'slap'..!...''now whaddya gonna do pussy man?''...''hit me with your purse ya coward piece of shit''...

[Sola_Fide]

The problem with these "discussions" is that we believe the other side to be criminals and tyrants. You can't have polite discussions with tyrants. We believe these people are evil, not "patriots". And they know this.

[jmdrake]

the Judge was way too graceful here.


the judge should have stood over Hayden and said...''you like violence you motherfucker?''...here.....'slap'..!...''now whaddya gonna do pussy man?''...''hit me with your purse ya coward piece of shit''...


The problem with these "discussions" is that we believe the other side to be criminals and tyrants. You can't have polite discussions with tyrants. We believe these people are evil, not "patriots". And they know this.

They should get Alex Jones next time. ;)

Seriously though, the problem wasn't that the judge was "too nice." The problem is that the judge let Hayden get away with lying and at the same time basically calling the judge a mistaken and the judges sources liars. Hayden was able to hide behind his credentials and say in effect "I know what we did and you don't nah nah boo boo." Our side needed at least one whistleblower to say "When I was at the NSA we actually listened to phone calls." Or the judge could have specifically brought up the PRISM documents that Snowden released. For Hayden to try to explain that away.

[Matt Collins]

I meant "gracious" not "graceful".... apologies.

[paleocon1]

The General is no Patriot. He is a Liar and a Traitor who if the People ever manage to restore the Constitution deserves a drumhead court-martial and the appropriate punishment for his Treason.

[jmdrake]

I meant "gracious" not "graceful".... apologies.

I read it as "gracious." My "this must be what you meant" translator was working fine. That said, the judge could have been just as gracious, but still nailed Hayden on the facts. The judge kept coming back to the theoretical "But where does it allow for that in the constitution" argument as opposed to "Can you explain the leaked PRISM document that says that you were scarfing up content or the ATT whistleblower from back in 2007 that showed that you were listening to phone calls back then or project Echelon where you allowed other countries to spy on Americans and they did the same in reverse? Oh, and I have all of the documentation. Lou, can you put this on the screen?"

[jllundqu]

Wow.... interesting debate. The Judge should not have let him stick to the "but but it's only metadata" meme. The whole world knows that the NSA is capable of and it sure as hell is more than just metadata.

[jmdrake]

Wow.... interesting debate. The Judge should not have let him stick to the "but but it's only metadata" meme. The whole world knows that the NSA is capable of and it sure as hell is more than just metadata.

Thank you! I was starting to think I was the only one that picked up on that. The judge started out with some pretty strong accusations, Hayden came back with "That's just not true" and Hayden's argument was allowed to go unchallenged. I do give the judge credit for calling Hayden out on the "56 terrorist threats were stopped" claim when it was only 3 and those 3 couldn't be articulated.