5.56mm ammo to be federally banned

[Cabal]

Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2560750)


As promised, President Obama is using executive actions to impose gun control on the nation, targeting the top-selling rifle in the country, the AR-15 style semi-automatic, with a ban on one of the most-used AR bullets by sportsmen and target shooters.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives this month revealed that it is proposing to put the ban on 5.56 mm ammo on a fast track, immediately driving up the price of the bullets and prompting retailers, including the huge outdoors company Cabela’s, to urge sportsmen to urge Congress to stop the president.

...

"The Obama administration was unable to ban America's most popular sporting rifle through the legislative process, so now it's trying to ban commonly owned and used ammunition through regulation," said Chris W. Cox, executive director of the NRA-ILA, the group's policy and lobby shop. "The NRA and our tens of millions of supporters across the country will fight to stop President Obama's latest attack on our Second Amendment freedoms."

At issue is so-called “armor-piercing” ammunition, an exemption for those bullets mostly used for sport by AR-15 owners, and the recent popularity of pistol-style ARs that use the ammo.

The inexpensive 5.56 M885 ammo, commonly called green tips, have been exempt for years, as have higher-caliber ammunition that also easily pierces the type of soft armor worn by police, because it’s mostly used by target shooters, not criminals. The agency proposes to reclassify it as armor-piercing and not exempt.

[Ronin Truth]

AK-47, anyone?

[Uriel999]

AK-47, anyone?

They got the steel core AK-47 ammo years ago. Last year they got AK-74 ammo called 7N6. However, M855 is NOT armor piercing ammo by either the BATFE's definition OR the US military. M995 is the designation for 5.56 armor piercing ammunition. Also, armor piercing ammunition is designated with a black tip.

Also, the 7N6 they got last year technically isn't AP either.

[RPtotheWH]

Good thing my AR15 takes .223 ammo. Usually the gov is stupid enough to slide this kind of technical glitch by.

[pcosmar]

They got the steel core AK-47 ammo years ago. Last year they got AK-74 ammo called 7N6. However, M855 is NOT armor piercing ammo by either the BATFE's definition OR the US military. M995 is the designation for 5.56 armor piercing ammunition. Also, armor piercing ammunition is designated with a black tip.

Also, the 7N6 they got last year technically isn't AP either.

.22 LR.
Aim for eyes.

Fuck a bunch of armor.

[presence]

.22 LR.
Aim for eyes.

Fuck a bunch of armor.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h279/gwarsh/mario-bump.gif

[KCIndy]

.22 LR.
Aim for eyes.

Fuck a bunch of armor.


Damn straight. In any defense, there is always a weak spot, a weakest link. When you know how something works, you know how to make it NOT work.

[Pericles]

What to do in case of an ammo ban:

! Go to ammo stash:

2. Select one can of ammunition:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3835&stc=1

3. Open can:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3836&stc=1

4. Remove one bandolier of ammunition:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3837&stc=1

5. Load magazine

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3838&stc=1

6. Happy hunting

[VIDEODROME]

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dxdSiIiqxjs/TT7f6dXt9hI/AAAAAAAAAkk/E0n4fYHuyhk/s320/wall+of+guns.jpg

[nobody's_hero]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it also depends on what you shoot 5.56 through.

5.56 ammo worked well in the M16/AR15 variants because the longer barrel enabled the bullet to reach higher velocities which meant better penetration. One of the criticisms of the M4 carbine, which also fires 5.56, was that the shortened barrel of the gun, meant for close-quarters fighting, led to a lower velocity and less penetration. Maybe that's been addressed but I recall a lot of soldiers didn't like the M4 when it was first issued because it couldn't get the same performance out of the 5.56mm ammo that they were used to getting with the M16s.

The saddest part about these bans is that you ALWAYS see a segment of gun owners—who happen not to have that certain kind of caliber ammunition—throw their fellow gun enthusiasts under the bus and forsake them, hoping they can hold on to their own guns a while longer.

Sort of a 'first they came for the 7.62, but I said nothing, because I didn't own 7.62 . . .'

[AngryCanadian]

Honestly i can see why some want the guns and ammo banned. Can you imagine someone pointing a gun at your head for disagreeing with you over smallest things?

[Origanalist]

Honestly i can see why some want the guns and ammo banned. Can you imagine someone pointing a gun at your head for disagreeing with you over smallest things?

Someone like a cop?

[nobody's_hero]

Someone like a cop?

With a grant-purchased M16 his 3-cop department got for $300 a pop, and all the 5.56 he can shoot dogs with, or to fight terrorism in Rural-wanda, USA.

[AngryCanadian]

Someone like a cop?

Your next door neighbor.

"Your not going to tell me or how i should view the Israeli state or Bush"
:rolleyes:

[Cabal]

Honestly i can see why some want the guns and ammo banned. Can you imagine someone pointing a gun at your head for disagreeing with you over smallest things?

I can imagine how someone who might be inclined to such action wouldn't be impeded by any law or ban.

[nobody's_hero]

Your next door neighbor.

"Your not going to tell me or how i should view the Israeli state or Bush"
:rolleyes:

Meh. In my opinion, gun owners are for the most part tolerant of disagreement. It's the people in power who want to ban guns who don't tolerate disagreement, which is why they ban guns (or the ammo used in them).

Armor-piercing ammo is the worst possible ammo you could use in a gang-hit, a hold-up, or any other typical criminal activity. Or a disagreement with your neighbor, as you say. How many people (civilians) go around wearing body armor? Armor-piercing bullets will go right through you; it may hit a vital organ, but it will go right through flesh. 5.56mm will make a pin-hole. '

Now, hollow point and various other expanding ammunition types do the real damage. They make a small entry wound, and as the bullet meets resistance during its path through the body, the lead expands, knocking a much larger hole in your organs. I'd much rather be hit with armor-piercing bullets than a hollow point that turns my liver into spaghetti sauce. If this executive order were about saving you from your psychotic neighbor (which FYI the government doesn't give a shit about you), they would be banning hollow-point ammo.

This ban isn't about protecting us from each other, public safety, or other nonsensical claims. It's about making sure that when the cattle-car-loaders knock down your doors in the middle of the night and demand to search your attic for politically-blacklisted Constitutionalists, you won't have anything to counter the ballistic shield and armor suits they will be wearing. So off to the gas chamber you go and hope someone finds your diary.

[morfeeis]

It's like pollux troy said in face off "it's like they're begging us to riot".

[heavenlyboy34]

Meh. In my opinion, gun owners are for the most part tolerant of disagreement. It's the people in power who want to ban guns who don't tolerate disagreement, which is why they ban guns (or the ammo used in them).

Armor-piercing ammo is the worst possible ammo you could use in a gang-hit, a hold-up, or any other typical criminal activity. Or a disagreement with your neighbor, as you say. How many people (civilians) go around wearing body armor? Armor-piercing bullets will go right through you; it may hit a vital organ, but it will go right through flesh. 5.56mm will make a pin-hole. '

Now, hollow point and various other expanding ammunition types do the real damage. They make a small entry wound, and as the bullet meets resistance during its path through the body, the lead expands, knocking a much larger hole in your organs. I'd much rather be hit with armor-piercing bullets than a hollow point that turns my liver into spaghetti sauce. If this executive order were about saving you from your psychotic neighbor (which FYI the government doesn't give a shit about you), they would be banning hollow-point ammo.

This ban isn't about protecting us from each other, public safety, or other nonsensical claims. It's about making sure that when the cattle-car-loaders knock down your doors in the middle of the night and demand to search your attic for politically-blacklisted Constitutionalists, you won't have anything to counter the ballistic shield and armor suits they will be wearing. So off to the gas chamber you go and hope someone finds your diary.
You're clearly an Irrational Citizen. Reported to Big Sister.

[satchelmcqueen]

cause only an ar15 can kill people.....

[Suzanimal]

Connecticut Senator: Anyone Wanting a High-Capacity Magazine is “Arming Against the Government”


The same senator who admitted lying to Sandy Hook families to get them to come to Washington in order to have them lobby for votes on unconstitutional gun confiscation legislation, is now claiming that if you want a high-capacity magazine for your gun, then you must be "arming against the government."

Senator Chris Murphy (D-CT), a virtually unknown senator until the Sandy Hook incident, has conspired with gun grabbing senators Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) and Robert Menendez (D-NJ) to co-sponsor Rep. Elizabeth Esty's (D-CT) unconstitutional bill that would limit magazine capacity to only 10 rounds across the nation. This seems to be right in line with the Sandy Hook Commission, whose recommendations for Connecticut were completely without thought to the Constitution.

Murphy pushed the bill only hours after an Army veteran was arrested for allegedly threatening to shoot up the Capitol building.

"Think of the damage that someone could do in the U.S. Capitol with 30 rounds," Murphy said on Thursday.

I've got an idea for Senator Murphy and all the communist gun grabbers like him, think of the damage you could inflict on someone who would enter the Capitol building intent on doing damage if you weren't passing such stupid laws that make yourselves vulnerable. Think of how insignificant those threats would be if you actually carried a firearm in the Capitol building and people were not restricted by pretended legislation that is in violation of the Second Amendment.

Furthermore, I don't see Senator Murphy quaking in his shoes about armed federal agents, do you? Shouldn't he be concerned that one might "go off the deep end" and use his weapon at the Capitol?

...
Read more at http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/02/connecticut-senator-anyone-wanting-high-capacity-magazine-arming-government/#1si4y6brlADTW8QK.99

[DamianTV]

If they cant ban the guns outright, then ban the Ammo.

[tangent4ronpaul]

White House says ammo ban will save cops’ lives
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/2/white-house-says-ammo-ban-will-save-cops-lives/

Can anyone remember a case where a cop was ever shot at with a AR? I can't.

Last I remember seeing FBI statistics, long guns were only used in something like 0.5% of firearms crimes. Why? hard to conceal. Also, AW's in general are not used in crimes because they are expensive.

-t

[Acala]

Honestly i can see why some want the guns and ammo banned. Can you imagine someone pointing a gun at your head for disagreeing with you over smallest things?

Yup. It totally makes sense for only government to have guns because government has proven over
many centuries that only it is peaceful and virtuous enough to be armed. It's not like government would ever slaughter its own people or engage in unjust war against innocents.

[pcosmar]

White House says ammo ban will save cops’ lives
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/2/white-house-says-ammo-ban-will-save-cops-lives/

Can anyone remember a case where a cop was ever shot at with a AR? I can't.

Last I remember seeing FBI statistics, long guns were only used in something like 0.5% of firearms crimes. Why? hard to conceal. Also, AW's in general are not used in crimes because they are expensive.

-t
Last I had known,,, (unless there is some I am unaware of) the last registered Full auto weapon used in a crime was used by a Cop.

[pcosmar]

White House says ammo ban will save cops’ lives

-t

White House is wrong,, again.

Pushing this stupid shit, and armored up out of control cops will however get more cops shot.

Cop pissing off otherwise Law Abiding citizens will cost cops lives.

[DamianTV]

When 5.56mm Ammo is Outlawed, only Outlaws will have 5.56mm Ammo.

Indivualism Fail: This ban will only affect the "Law Abiding Citizens", which by their definition of "Law Abiding" is fewer and fewer of us every single day.

[satchelmcqueen]

this should be so illegal to do. banning a certain ammo? i remember saying (and many here said it to) a few years ago that if they couldnt ban guns, then theyd just ban the ammo. people laughed at me. well, here ya go!

how is this not being challenged? you cant ban ammo.

[Root]

I keep checking the new posts in this thread hoping for some good news. I don't even own anything that shoots 5.56 ammo.

[kpitcher]

I'm not a hardcore gun person so I'm curious... how hard is it to machine your own ammo?

[puppetmaster]

They came for the 556......no one cared...then they came for others.....push until they break....if they break. most will just say not my favorite caliber and sit and wait for their favorite to be banned.

[CaptainAmerica]

time to reload your own cartridges,

[CaptainAmerica]

They came for the 556......no one cared...then they came for others.....push until they break....if they break. most will just say not my favorite caliber and sit and wait for their favorite to be banned.

next is .45 acp

[CaptainAmerica]

bama wants a war ,its obvious

[Acala]

this should be so illegal to do. banning a certain ammo? i remember saying (and many here said it to) a few years ago that if they couldnt ban guns, then theyd just ban the ammo. people laughed at me. well, here ya go!

how is this not being challenged? you cant ban ammo.

Years ago, Congress passed a law outlawing "armor piercing" hangun ammunition. Mu understanding is that the administration is now declaring 5.56 mm to be handgun ammunition since somebody made a handgun in that caliber.

[jbauer]

So what exactly is the difference between .556 and .223?

Can all assault riffles shoot .223?

[satchelmcqueen]

if they go after 223 next, will a 270 be close behind? i love my 270.

[Acala]

So what exactly is the difference between .556 and .223?

Can all assault riffles shoot .223?

5.56 is mil spec. .223 is commercial spec. The cartridges are the same dimension but 5.56 is rated for higher pressure. Essentially you should not shoot 5.56 ammo in guns made for .223. Or so it is my understanding. Those with more expertise will correct me.

[jbauer]

5.56 is mil spec. .223 is commercial spec. The cartridges are the same dimension but 5.56 is rated for higher pressure. Essentially you should not shoot 5.56 ammo in guns made for .223. Or so it is my understanding. Those with more expertise will correct me.

But you could shoot .223 out of a gun designed to shoot .556?

[Acala]

But you could shoot .223 out of a gun designed to shoot .556?
Yup. By the way, it is 5.56, not .556. .223 is imperial, 5.56 is metric.

[pcosmar]

300 BLK

Uppers interchange,, Uses the same mag..
Better ballistics.

[ChristianAnarchist]

I haven't tried this but I'm pretty sure I can make pretty much any ammo "armor piercing" to some degree by simply putting the bullet into a lathe, boring a hole about halfway deep and inserting a tungsten rod with a sharpened tip. There are lots of tungsten TIG welding tips out there to make them from. Seems that if someone WANTS armor piercing someone will MAKE armor piercing...

[Acala]

I'm not a hardcore gun person so I'm curious... how hard is it to machine your own ammo?

Asembling ammo from commercial components - cases, bullets, primers, and powder - is EASY with a few inexpensive tools. But, with the exception of lead bullets, making those components is hard. You can re-use brass cases several times. Primers can be reloaded, but not easily. Modern, smokeless powder is not easy to make. Lead bullets are easy to cast but bullets for hi-velocity rifles like 5.56 (especially if they are gas operated) really need to be jacketed in a harder metal. To make jacketed bullets, you need swaging equipment. That isn't cheap, but not out of the question. It also might be possible to "paper patch" lead bullets for hi velocity use..

If you wanted to be as self-sufficient as possible, the way to go would be black powder rifle.

[pcosmar]

If you wanted to be as self-sufficient as possible, the way to go would be black powder rifle.

I don't care what kind of armor you wear,, a 50-90 Sharps would fuck up your day.

[Pericles]

time to reload your own cartridges,

With what? It is the bullet that makes the round the M855 cartridge that the ATF wants to ban. The rest of the round in identical to M193 or M855A1 ball ammunition.

[paleocon1]

obviously this unConstitutional bit of usurpation by barry needs to be resisted by the American People.

[Anti Federalist]

So when is the pro gun GOP in the House and Senate that everybody voted so hard for, going to try and stop this?

[Root]

So when is the pro gun GOP in the House and Senate that everybody voted so hard for, going to try and stop this?
Lolololololololol

[Acala]

I don't care what kind of armor you wear,, a 50-90 Sharps would fuck up your day.

Hehehe. I have been lusting over a Sharps reproduction for years. Ever since a guy let me fire his at the range. Set trigger that you could literally touch off with a feather. I would probably go with 45-70 just because of availability. Now you got me thinking about it again . . .

[puppetmaster]

didnt they ban the teflon coated stuff....I have many boxes of .45 called black talon something like that.....

[Bastiat's The Law]

Even reloading is getting hard.

[Uriel999]

So what exactly is the difference between .556 and .223?

Can all assault riffles shoot .223?


5.56 is mil spec. .223 is commercial spec. The cartridges are the same dimension but 5.56 is rated for higher pressure. Essentially you should not shoot 5.56 ammo in guns made for .223. Or so it is my understanding. Those with more expertise will correct me.


But you could shoot .223 out of a gun designed to shoot .556?


Acala is correct. You can shoot .223 out of a 5.56 barrel but not vice versa.


300 BLK

Uppers interchange,, Uses the same mag..
Better ballistics.

300 BLK is just an expensive wildcat version of 7.62x39. Unless you are running a can it is not worth it.


So when is the pro gun GOP in the House and Senate that everybody voted so hard for, going to try and stop this?

Bwahahahahahahaha. You should be a comedian! Actually though:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/02/republican-introduces-bill-revoking-atfs-power-to-regulate-ammo/

[CaptainAmerica]

So what exactly is the difference between .556 and .223?

Can all assault riffles shoot .223?

availability of ammunition. It would be basically making all surplus ammunition unavailable...that would be about 50 percent if not more of the ammo people use out there currently with their rifles.

[CaptainAmerica]

didnt they ban the teflon coated stuff....I have many boxes of .45 called black talon something like that.....

probably. tungsten core black tip armor piercing rounds are what they are trying to ban first, but it won't stop at that ,it never does.

[Uriel999]

probably. tungsten core black tip armor piercing rounds are what they are trying to ban first, but it won't stop at that ,it never does.

those have been banned a long time. M855 is steel and lead core.

[puppetmaster]

those have been banned a long time. M855 is steel and lead core. They will just keep banning.

[Suzanimal]

ATF Calls Stripping Ban Exemption for AR-15 Green Tip Ammunition a "Publishing Mistake"


Yesterday I exclusively reported that common AR-15 "green tip" ammunition has already been banned in the new 2014 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Regulation Guide, which was published in January. After the story received wide public attention, which you can read in full here, ATF released a response Friday night at 9:12 p.m. blaming a publishing error for stripping out the "armor piercing" and ban exemption for AR-15 "green tip" ammunition.

Here is the full statement.


On Feb. 13, 2015, ATF released for public comment a proposed framework, including legal and technical analysis, to guide its determination on what ammunition is "primarily intended for sporting purposes" for purposes of granting exemptions to the Gun Control Act’s prohibition on Armor Piecing Ammunition.This proposed framework is posted for public comment only; no final decisions have been made as to its adoption.

Media reports have noted that the 2014 ATF Regulation Guide published online does not contain a listing of the exemptions for Armor Piercing Ammunition, and concluding that the absence of this listing indicates these exemptions have been rescinded.

Please be advised that ATF has not rescinded any Armor Piercing Ammunition exemption, and the fact they are not listed in the 20 14 online edition of the regulations, was an error, which has no legal impact on the validity of the exemptions. The existing exemptions for armor piercing ammunition, which apply to 5.56 mm (.223) SS 109 and M855 projectiles (identified by a green coating on the projectile tip), and the U.S .30-06 M2AP projectile (identified by a black coating on the projectile tip), remain in effect.

The listing of Armor Piercing Ammunition exemptions can be found in the 2005 ATF Regulation Guide on page 166, which is posted here. The 2014 Regulation Guide will be corrected in PDF format to include the listing of Armor Piercing Ammunition exemptions and posted shortly. The e-book/iBook version of the Regulation Guide will be corrected in the near future. ATF apologizes for any confusion caused by this publishing error.


...
Despite ATF saying there's "nothing to analyze here folks," this simple "publishing mistake" deserves scrutiny. Considering the Office of Management and Budget must approve new Regulation Guides, which come out approximately every 10 years, are difficult to change and take months to review, that's quite the "publishing mistake." As ATF references, the exemption for AR-15 "green tip" ammunition is in the 2005 ATF Regulation Guide. For this "publishing mistake" to occur, someone would have had to delete an entire section from the guide, which just happens to be the section about ammunition the Obama administration is currently trying to ban.

...

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/07/atf-calls-stripping-exemption-for-ar15-green-tip-ammo-a-publishing-mistake-n1967168

[Acala]

ATF Calls Stripping Ban Exemption for AR-15 Green Tip Ammunition a "Publishing Mistake"



http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/07/atf-calls-stripping-exemption-for-ar15-green-tip-ammo-a-publishing-mistake-n1967168

Intentional or not, this is good news!

[Anti Federalist]

Ah yes the old "publishing error" mistake.

[Anti Federalist]

Ah yes the old "publishing error" mistake.

[kcchiefs6465]

those have been banned a long time. M855 is steel and lead core.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe M855 has a steel core.

The tip of the bullet is steel, not the core, if I'm not mistaken. The difference between 'AP' designation and simple ammunition.

[Brian4Liberty]

575035712510169088

[kcchiefs6465]

5.56 is mil spec. .223 is commercial spec. The cartridges are the same dimension but 5.56 is rated for higher pressure. Essentially you should not shoot 5.56 ammo in guns made for .223. Or so it is my understanding. Those with more expertise will correct me.
The cartridges are not the same dimension.

The difference is negligible when looking at the two casings but they are different. You can tell by looking at the neck.

http://i.imgur.com/7OOJpuZ.jpg?1

ETA: You are correct in that you should not shoot 5.56 out of a .223. The pressure difference is quite substantial (15,000 to 20,000 PSI or something incredible, I don't recall off of the top of my head).

Those with more expertise will correct me. ;)

[Brian4Liberty]

574733344665001984

[Brian4Liberty]

574752386423463936

[Acala]

The cartridges are not the same dimension.

The difference is negligible when looking at the two casings but they are different. You can tell by looking at the neck.

http://i.imgur.com/7OOJpuZ.jpg?1



From wikipedia: "The dimensional specifications of 5.56 NATO and .223 commercial brass cases are identical."

[Suzanimal]

House bill would ban AR-15 bullet



Democrats are pressing new legislation in the House that would ban forms of armor-piercing ammunition.

Rep. Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.) is pushing the Armor Piercing Bullets Act followingthe Obama administration’s decision earlier this week to withdraw a controversial proposal that would restrict 5.56 mm projectiles for M855 cartridges commonly used in AR-15 rifles.

“Armor-piercing rounds like green tips should only be in the hands of military personnel or police officers, period,” Engel said. “There is absolutely no compelling argument to be made for anyone else to have access to them.”

“But the out-of-touch gun industry lobby is fighting tooth and nail to keep cop-killing ammunition on the streets. We need to speak up on behalf of our police officers and say ‘stop the madness, ’” he added.
Engel's legislation, expected to be introduced Friday, would restrict the sale of the 5.56 mm projectiles, which can can penetrate police body armor.

"Deers do not wear body armor,” a spokesman for Engel joked. “No, I have never met a deer that walks around in Kevlar.”

Even as they pursue legislation, congressional Democrats are also pushing for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to move ahead with restrictions on the armor-piercing bullets.

The ATF had sought to prohibit gun companies from manufacturing or selling 5.56 mm projectiles for M855 cartridges, but shelved the plan after an outcry from gun groups and congressional Republicans.

Dozens of Democrats, including including Reps. Carolyn Maloney (N.Y.), Jackie Speier (Calif.) and Steve Israel (N.Y.), are expected to sign a letter that will be sent on Friday to ATF Director B. Todd Jones asking him to reconsider the plan.

Speier is also planning to introduce her own piece of legislation next week that would more broadly ban forms of armor-piercing ammunition.

http://thehill.com/regulation/legislation/235531-dems-pushing-bullet-ban-legislation

[Pericles]

The difference is only slight in the cartridge - about 5% less pressure from the .223 cartridge than 5.56mm. The real difference is in the barrels - .223 barrels are very different from 5.56mm barrels:

The most important difference between .223 and 5.56 chambers is the length of the throat (or leade) for each chamber. More specifically, the leade is located at the mouth of the barrel before the rifling occurs. Comparing the NATO and SAAMI regulations, the leade for 5.56 chambers is nearly twice as long as that of a .223 chamber (.162in to .085in, respectively). If a 5.56 round contacts the barrel rifling too early, it can cause pressure spikes (leading to malfunction, and potentially damage) in the chamber. This explains why it is safe to fire .223 through a 5.56 chamber, but not recommended to fire 5.56 through a .223 chamber.

[Suzanimal]

ATF's first Senate-confirmed director resigns



The first Senate-confirmed director for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is leaving the post after less than two years, the agency announced Friday.

B. Todd Jones' resignation is effective March 31. After that, Deputy Director Thomas Brandon will become acting director.

...

Under Jones' tenure, the agency faced renewed criticism about its investigative tactics, including the use of so-called storefront and sting operations to pursue violent criminals. Most recently, the agency came under fire for proposing the elimination of an exemption that allowed the sale and manufacture of certain types of bullets, used in the popular AR-15-style rifles, that could pierce a police officer's protective vest when fired from a handgun.

The proposed change would have effectively outlawed "M855 green tip" or "SS109" rounds with certain types of metal core projectiles. Most of the more than 310,000 public comments about the proposal were critical of the plan, and nearly 300 members of Congress — majorities in both the House and Senate — also complained. The effort was abandoned earlier this month.

...

http://news.yahoo.com/atfs-first-senate-confirmed-director-resigns-154351880--politics.html

[GunnyFreedom]

Mind you, this threat is (kinda) passed (there will be a new one on these grounds in days, believe it) but the proposed ban wasn't on all 5.56, just milsurp greentip. I just heard some idiot from NY has proposed a federal ban on ANY centerfire ammo that can be fired from a pistol or short barrel rifle (SBR) capable penetrating low level body armor. Which is pretty much ANY rifle ammo ever made. I don't expect after the pushback from the proposed greentip ban that his bill will go anywhere, but it is worthwhile to note that theye are not stopping their efforts just because the greentip ban failed, indeed, theye seem to be doubling down.


I'm not a hardcore gun person so I'm curious... how hard is it to machine your own ammo?

It is difficult but it is not impossible. You need a swaging machine or swaging dies for a reloading press to do it.

Projectiles from a swaging machine are far more accurate and stable in flight, but a proper swaging machine is ex.pens.ive. A proper swaging machine is about the size of an end table, driven by electricity and hydraulics, and it will punch out a piece of copper plate and then swage the lead into it while forming the shape of the projectile. These projectiles are pretty much as good as the ones you get from a basic reload supplier. Not as good as premium projectiles where the larger companies can afford a much finer swaging process, but nearly as good as the 'basic average' .223 and 5.56 projectiles. Expect something like $5000 minimum for the cheapest/crappiest hydraulic swaging machine you can buy.

Some innovative souls have come up with a process using swaging dies in a reloading press to convert empty .22LR brass into .223/5.56 projectiles. You will need an extra-rugged reloading press, and a lever handle some 3 foot long, each projectile takes 3 to 5 steps to form, and they are less perfect and less stable than a properly swaged copper jacketed lead bullet. The press cuts the rim off the .22LR brass, and forms a kind of cup, then another step crams the lead into the cup, and then another step forms the initial shape of the projectile closing the brass around the lead, and another step seals the base and point and finalizes the bullet shape.

The swaging dies for a reload press are a lot less expensive, expect a $100 to $300 for a full set of dies, and about $150 for a reload press rugged enough to handle it. Problem is they are less accurate than the 'average' commercially manufactured projectiles, because your arm just doesn't have the force (or precision) to form the projectiles with perfected consistency.


So what exactly is the difference between .556 and .223?

The projectiles are identical, but the brass and therefore the overall round have slight differences. There is a sharper necking and a larger headspace on the 5.56 round as compared to the .223 cal. Any 5.56 chamber can shoot both rounds, but a .223 chamber trying to fire 5.56 can have a catastrophic failure. If you fire .223 from a 5.56 chamber, it will be slightly less accurate than firing a .223 from a .223 chamber on account of the wobble room in the headspace.

There are 'middle of the road' chambers, like the Wylde chamber, designed to fire both without sacrificing accuracy.


Can all assault riffles shoot .223?

No, only those rifles chambered in .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO (or Wylde, etc) can fire .223 Remington rounds.

It is important to note that the projectile between a 5.56mm and a .223 Rem are identical, and the projectile is actually a .224 inch (calibre) bullet. If you are buying loose projectiles to reload 5.56 NATO or .223 Remington, you will be buying .224 calibre projectiles.

[GunnyFreedom]

From wikipedia: "The dimensional specifications of 5.56 NATO and .223 commercial brass cases are identical."

Wikipedia is wrong. (I am sure everyone is shocked at that) You can actually SEE the sharper necking on the 5.56 in the very photograph they are using to claim they are identical. It is also dangerous to claim they are identical, considering that firing 5.56 NATO rounds through a .223 Remington chamber can lead to catastrophic failure.

[GunnyFreedom]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe M855 has a steel core.

The tip of the bullet is steel, not the core, if I'm not mistaken. The difference between 'AP' designation and simple ammunition.

M855 greentip has a carbide core penetrator, the tip is ordinary copper FMJ. It's the carbide core penetrator they are objecting to. The whole thing is absurd considering that the 5.56 doesn't actually need a carbide core to penetrate level 2A and level 2 body armor. It will penetrate that level or armor with a plain lead core no problem. So the proposed ban is basically irrelevant to the purpose they are claiming to want it for. As we have now seen, that was just a "camel's nose under the tent" to push for a broader ban, such as that which has now been introduced in Congress (which bill, fortunately, will go nowhere, but it is still important to monitor what is going on in case they try and sneak the provision into a 'must pass' bill like defense funding).

[Pericles]

Wikipedia is wrong. (I am sure everyone is shocked at that) You can actually SEE the sharper necking on the 5.56 in the very photograph they are using to claim they are identical. It is also dangerous to claim they are identical, considering that firing 5.56 NATO rounds through a .223 Remington chamber can lead to catastrophic failure.

And they are claiming that the tracer is .223, when it should be 5.56 M196 Tracer.