Edward Snowden Calls for Civil Disobedience

[Suzanimal]

http://i.imgur.com/WXrUzu7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eshLv4L.gif


February 23, 2015—While perfect enforcement of law sounds great, it is true that governments typically do not reform themselves. It requires activism and organizing to preserve our rights, according to NSA Whistleblower Edward Snowden.

Discussing a book he read recently called “Data and Goliath,” by Bruceedward snowden Schneier, Snowden explained that while completely eradicating crime is a compelling goal, it may not be the best path to pursue.

Snowden explained in a recent discussion on Reddit:

“When we look back on history, the progress of Western civilization and human rights is actually founded on the violation of law. America was of course born out of a violent revolution that was an outrageous treason against the crown and established order of the day. History shows that the righting of historical wrongs is often born from acts of unrepentant criminality. Slavery. The protection of persecuted Jews.

“But even on less extremist topics, we can find similar examples. How about the prohibition of alcohol? Gay marriage? Marijuana?

“Where would we be today if the government, enjoying powers of perfect surveillance and enforcement, had—entirely within the law—rounded up, imprisoned, and shamed all of these lawbreakers?

“Ultimately, if people lose their willingness to recognize that there are times in our history when legality becomes distinct from morality, we aren’t just ceding control of our rights to government, but our agency in determining their futures.”
Snowden proceeds to depict governments today as power hungry machines eager to ignore their citizens’ problems and instead control their citizens’ behavior. To combat this, Snowden recommends using science as a tool to remove any interference in our elected leaders enforcement our rights and liberties.

“You can see the beginnings of this dynamic today in the statements of government officials complaining about the adoption of encryption by major technology providers. The idea here isn’t to fling ourselves into anarchy and do away with government, but to remind the government that there must always be a balance of power between the governing and the governed, and that as the progress of science increasingly empowers communities and individuals, there will be more and more areas of our lives where—if government insists on behaving poorly and with a callous disregard for the citizen—we can find ways to reduce or remove their powers on a new—and permanent—basis.

“Our rights are not granted by governments. They are inherent to our nature. But it’s entirely the opposite for governments: their privileges are precisely equal to only those which we suffer them to enjoy.

“We haven’t had to think about that much in the last few decades because quality of life has been increasing across almost all measures in a significant way, and that has led to a comfortable complacency. But here and there throughout history, we’ll occasionally come across these periods where governments think more about what they ‘can’ do rather than what they ‘should’ do, and what is lawful will become increasingly distinct from what is moral.

“In such times, we’d do well to remember that at the end of the day, the law doesn’t defend us; we defend the law. And when it becomes contrary to our morals, we have both the right and the responsibility to rebalance it toward just ends.”

http://www.voicesofliberty.com/article/edward-snowden-calls-for-civil-disobedience-marijuana-legalization/
http://i.imgur.com/YDY4maF.png



You can watch CitizenFour on HBO and it's also available for download on itunes.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?461909-CITIZENFOUR-New-Snowden-Documentary/page2&highlight=Snowden

[phill4paul]

Thanks for posting this. I had read through that AMA yesterday and meant to post about it but had forgotten to. This particular passage contained a quote I had meant to add. +rep

[ZENemy]

Organized Tax strike.

[angelatc]

Was that a Ron Paul its-happening gif?

[Suzanimal]

Was that a Ron Paul its-happening gif?

Yes.:D


Did Snowden just invoke the infamous “It’s Happening” gif?

Today, during an AMA event on Reddit, Edward Snowden gave lengthy answers to numerous questions about his motivations. Besides saying that his only regret was “I’d have come forward sooner,” another response caught our eye.

Edward Snowden just called for civil disobedience against the US government whilst also arguing for the legalization of marijuana during an AMA. This is quite possibly the most reddit thing ever. (A statement from a user going by the_ask.)

Snowden responded, “its-happening.gif,” referencing the animated gif also known as “Doom Paul.”

http://i.imgur.com/eshLv4L.gif

And the internet exploded.

...

http://iroots.org/2015/02/23/did-snowden-just-invoke-the-infamous-its-happening-gif/

[jmdrake]

Yeah....good luck with that. I can't even convince my friends to use encryption for cell phone calls and texts because they're afraid the government will notice them downloading the software. :( We are truly a country of sheeple.

[Ronin Truth]

Gandhi calls for non-cooperation.

[Tod]

Organized Tax strike.


How many people would be required in order for that to be considered a big success?

[Uriel999]

Yeah....good luck with that. I can't even convince my friends to use encryption for cell phone calls and texts because they're afraid the government will notice them downloading the software. :( We are truly a country of sheeple.

Funny, I don't use it because I am convinced the government made most of that software in the first place.

[staerker]

I remember the days when I idolized Ron Paul. I have since realized the stupidity of such a thing, but threads like these make me miss those days.

[amy31416]

I love the "It's Happening" gif/meme. Works on so many levels.

[Ronin Truth]

How many people would be required in order for that to be considered a big success?

My SWAG, 30,000,000!

[HVACTech]

Yeah....good luck with that. I can't even convince my friends to use encryption for cell phone calls and texts because they're afraid the government will notice them downloading the software. :( We are truly a country of sheeple.

then, convince them to get out of debt.

this is the highest form of civil disobedience.

no debt. = no FED. right or wrong?

[jmdrake]

then, convince them to get out of debt.

this is the highest form of civil disobedience.

no debt. = no FED. right or wrong?

Wouldn't it still exist to finance the national debt?

[jmdrake]

Funny, I don't use it because I am convinced the government made most of that software in the first place.

Yeah....or maybe that's just what they want you to think so that you won't use it. And you can always roll your own.

[kcchiefs6465]

I love the "It's Happening" gif/meme. Works on so many levels.
I have never seen that meme outside of RPFs (and actually assumed it was created by someone here).

Is it really that popular? Or was Snowden a lurker?

[Suzanimal]

I have never seen that meme outside of RPFs (and actually assumed it was created by someone here).

Is it really that popular? Or was Snowden a lurker?

It was Snowden. He did an AMA on Reddit.:)

[phill4paul]

How many people would be required in order for that to be considered a big success?

Dunno. ZEN and I make two. Care to join us and see how many it takes?

[kcchiefs6465]

It was Snowden. He did an AMA on Reddit.:)
I'm just thinking about if it was probable he used to lurk around these parts because of the particular GIF that was used.

I've never seen it besides here but I guess it could be a more well known meme than what I'd figured.

[Suzanimal]

I'm just thinking about if it was probable he used to lurk around these parts because of the particular GIF that was used.

I've never seen it besides here but I guess it could be a more well known meme than what I'd figured.

Maybe, hard to tell. So many people on here look just like him.;)

Seriously, I wouldn't doubt it - I've never noticed that meme used outside of RPF.

[HVACTech]

Wouldn't it still exist to finance the national debt?

well, my understanding is that our monetary system is based on debt.
and,
our economy is also based on "consumer, consumption"
and if the "consumers" get out of debt?

house of cards falls.

eh?

[kcchiefs6465]

well, my understanding is that our monetary system is based on debt.
and,
our economy is also based on "consumer, consumption"
and if the "consumers" get out of debt?

house of cards falls.

eh?
Not quite.

While the monetary system is based on debt, that is, every dollar created has interest attached to it, it is a different brand of debt than simple individual debts. It is a collective debt supposedly authorized, by the Constitution, to be paid. That means anyone born within these particular borders are hereby obligated to pay for it. I do not know the particulars of who will be born in 10 years. Rest assured, they will be 'obligated' to pay taxes in part for the interest on the collective debt.

If they simply paid off their credit cards, good for them. It isn't going to have significant bearing on how the Fed operates.

E.g. the difference between private debt and quasi-socialized, 'fictional,' debt.

[HVACTech]

Not quite.

While the monetary system is based on debt, that is, every dollar created has interest attached to it, it is a different brand of debt than simple individual debts. It is a collective debt supposedly authorized, by the Constitution, to be paid. That means anyone born within these particular borders are hereby obligated to pay for it. I do not know the particulars of who will be born in 10 years. Rest assured, they will be 'obligated' to pay taxes in part for the interest on the collective debt.

If they simply paid off their credit cards, good for them. It isn't going to have significant bearing on how the Fed operates.

E.g. the difference between private debt and quasi-socialized, 'fictional,' debt.

note. I wrote "get out of debt" not just "credit" (access to debt) cards.

I am not sure of the difference between private and public debt... in a debt based monetary system.
the system functions on debt. that I am sure of.

not participating, by avoiding debt is one of the things that I can do...

[kcchiefs6465]

note. I wrote "get out of debt" not just "credit" (access to debt) cards.

I am not sure of the difference between private and public debt... in a debt based monetary system.
the system functions on debt. that I am sure of.

not participating, by avoiding debt is one of the things that I can do...
With regards to a private debt, Person 'A' signs up for a credit card, spends money on credit, and is contractually obligated to pay. Person 'A' knowingly signed up for said card, he knowingly went into debt. There is a clear contract as to the exact stipulations of said debt.

With regards to a socialized debt, such as, the national debt, Person 'A' is being charged for a credit card he never signed up for. He is being forced to pay for things he never used. He is supposedly contracted by a "social contract" (that is, simply by being born somewhere you are obligated to certain agreements). The actual contract that they reference was signed by no living individual. Many have not even read the contract that supposedly authorizes groups of people to act on their behalf! To incur debts on their behalf!

So you can say to your credit card company, "Whew, I finally paid it off."

That is not the way the world works with regards to these particularly illegitimate contracts (i.e. collectivist funding schemes or the national debt). So the national debt is what, ~18,000,000,000,000. Divide that by the approximate number of people living in America (and if you do it by income tax payers, the figure is even more-so ridiculous). 56,250 dollars is what every man, woman, and child supposedly owes. Now if someone said, "Well, hey, I'll just pay my $56,000 now, quit paying taxes, and our debts are settled!" I mean, needless to say, that is far from how this works. No, even if they paid their supposed portion of the debt, which they were never obligated to pay in the first damn place, but even if they did, they STILL would be put in a cage for tax evasion. They STILL would be supposedly obligated for the current debts incurred.

And let's be perfectly honest, these government debts (which are obligatory of no one to pay... absent a few who actually partook in said contract) have Catholics paying for abortions, it has pacifists paying to blow up children overseas... I mean, these aren't simple extortions where a common thief could say, "Oh, you parked in my spot. Give me some money or I'll do X, Y, or Z." That is one thing but the other has some very troublesome moral implications.

[Thor]

so, what is the civil disobedience we should perform? (I can't see the voicesofliberty page as I block trackers) ... growing weed? if you are in weed legal state, grow it without paying the tax man?

Planting weed seeds all over town with seed bombs? "what is that growing up on flower bed of the courthouse?"

Lace the interstates with weed seeds? they rarely mow that anyway...

Weed is about to be legal "everywhere" (greedy goberment eye see the revenue stream in CO and WA), so what is the next level of civil disobedience if weed is legal?

[kcchiefs6465]

When people say that this is a debt based monetary system they are referring to the mechanism by which currency is currently created.

Here is a good video explaining it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

[kcchiefs6465]

so, what is the civil disobedience we should perform? (I can't see the voicesofliberty page as I block trackers) ... growing weed? if you are in weed legal state, grow it without paying the tax man?

Planting weed seeds all over town with seed bombs? "what is that growing up on flower bed of the courthouse?"

Lace the interstates with weed seeds? they rarely mow that anyway...

Weed is about to be legal "everywhere" (greedy goberment eye see the revenue stream in CO and WA), so what is the next level of civil disobedience if weed is legal?
USS Richard B. Anderson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Richard_B._Anderson_%28DD-786%29)

[HVACTech]

With regards to a private debt, Person 'A' signs up for a credit card, spends money on credit, and is contractually obligated to pay. Person 'A' knowingly signed up for said card, he knowingly went into debt. There is a clear contract as to the exact stipulations of said debt.

With regards to a socialized debt,

my friend. the ENTIRE system is based on debt.
your argument seems to hinge on whether or not a person "knowingly" or not enters a contract.
I have not argument with your position.

[kcchiefs6465]

my friend. the ENTIRE system is based on debt.
your argument seems to hinge on whether or not a person "knowingly" or not enters a contract.
I have not argument with your position.
Yes, the entire monetary system is based on debt.

For a contract to be contractual, one must knowingly enter into it absent coercion.

Imagine your neighbor taking you to small claims. He said he typed up a few pages; eloquent, I'm sure. He further says that within those few pages was the stipulation that you will be paying for all debts he may incur. He claims they were incurred on your behalf but you are skeptical.

In any case, you are taken to court. You never signed, or agreed to any of what is on his piece of paper.

Well with any competent court, his case would be thrown out... and for good reason! You never signed, or agreed to any of the bullshit that he offers. He's saying, "Well, I did protect his property when he was not at home, surely that's worth something!" And the judge, if worth weight in piss would respond, "Now that is mighty fine that you took it upon yourself to protect this person's home and property. HOWEVER, considering the person whose property you were 'protecting' never asked for the protection, never contractually obligated themselves to compensate for protection, and in general appears not to have any regard or need for what you call protection, I'll hereby have to rule that your 'contract' never was anything of the sort."

A contract cannot be a contract without all parties knowingly consenting to it.

[HVACTech]

au contraire.

I can refuse to participate in debt.
and deal with life from a perspective of wealth.

why do you seem to disagree with this strategy? :confused:

think of it this way. anyone, who is concerned about their "credit rating"
is playing the game wrong.
peace.

[kcchiefs6465]

au contraire.

I can refuse to participate in debt.
and deal with life from a perspective of wealth.

why do you seem to disagree with this strategy? :confused:

think of it this way. anyone, who is concerned about their "credit rating"
is playing the game wrong.
peace.
You realize that people are taking on debts under your name, correct?

And that a good chunk of the taxes you pay are to fund a debt you never agreed to?

Is that not the most incredible thing? People are literally cosigning your name and the names of your posterity to pay for this or that. The debt is maintained because of the assurances of those who control policy that if all of their other schemes fail, they have a population to fall back on (frankly, they assure them that they'd still be able to rob the masses).

When I realized this, I really started seeing things differently. My "Ron Paul" epiphany, if you will, sounded something like this: "The hell do you mean they just print money!?"

Being debt free is an admirable thing. But many people expect payment from you every paycheck (and they don't trust you enough to pay them for their most vital service so they 'withhold' [steal] a portion of your earnings). You don't find that fascinating?

[Mach]

http://www.tineye.com/

http://www.tineye.com/search/3a347d558a9b9737ec378acb2c484b7002a13b39/

[FunkBuddha]

I think the type of civil disobedience Mr Snowden is referring to is the kind that you don't discuss on public internet forums.

[Ronin Truth]

Have any of the Snowden disclosures had ANY significant effects, so far?

[Thor]

USS Richard B. Anderson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Richard_B._Anderson_%28DD-786%29)

"She then prepared for another WestPac deployment. On 27 May she got underway but the ship was forced to turn back due to crew sabotage of an engine. Apparently nuts, bolts and chains were dropped down the main gear shaft. Several sailors were charged with causing the damage, but the case was later dismissed."

???

[Suzanimal]

Have any of the Snowden disclosures had ANY significant effects, so far?

Snowden Discusses ‘Invisible’ Changes Since NSA Spying Revelations


February 24, 2015—Some of the biggest changes that have been made since Edward Snowden revealed information on the U.S. government’s unwarranted mass surveillance and data collection programs back in 2013 are “invisible,” according to the NSA spying whistleblower.

Snowden posted the following comments during a Reddit AMA:

“Many of the changes that are happening are invisible because they’re happening at the engineering level. Google encrypted the backhaul communications between their data centers to prevent passive monitoring. Apple was the first forward with an FDE-by-default smartphone (kudos!). Grad students around the world are trying to come up with ways to solve the metadata problem (the opportunity to monitor everyone’s associations — who you talk to, who you sleep with, who you vote for — even in encrypted communications).

“The biggest change has been in awareness. Before 2013, if you said the NSA was making records of everybody’s phonecalls and the GCHQ was monitoring lawyers and journalists, people raised eyebrows and called you a conspiracy theorist.

“Those days are over. Facts allow us to stop speculating and start building, and that’s the foundation we need to fix the internet. We just happened to be the generation stuck with fighting these fires.”

http://www.voicesofliberty.com/article/snowden-discusses-invisible-changes-since-nsa-spying-revelations/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=VOL&utm_medium=post

[Ronin Truth]

Snowden Discusses ‘Invisible’ Changes Since NSA Spying Revelations



http://www.voicesofliberty.com/article/snowden-discusses-invisible-changes-since-nsa-spying-revelations/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=VOL&utm_medium=post

"Ah, the old invisible change benefits trick." -- Maxwell Smart

[amy31416]

Have any of the Snowden disclosures had ANY significant effects, so far?

Hard to say. When you know you're being surveilled, and we all are, those who are reasonably intelligent and have something to lose will keep their mouth shut.

[surf]

I'm just hoping this hero can travel freely soon.

Snowden is a stud. I always like what I hear from him. thanks for posting this.