Chelsea Manning hired by The Guardian

[Suzanimal]

Chelsea Manning will become a contributing opinion writer for The Guardian, U.S. editor-in-chief Katharine Viner announced Tuesday.

Viner announced the hire on Twitter, where she wrote that the U.S. Army whistleblower would write a column covering topics related to “war, gender, and freedom of information”

In 2013, the former U.S. Army private was sentenced to 35 years in prison for leaking hundreds of thousands of classified military documents to WikiLeaks. Shortly following her sentence, Manning, formerly known as Bradley Manning, came out as transgender, and she published a Guardian essay about gender identity, writing that the U.S. government was denying her fundamental civil rights because of her gender identity.

“A doctor, a judge or a piece of paper shouldn’t have the power to tell someone who he or she is. We should all have the absolute and inalienable right to define ourselves, in our own terms and in our own languages, and to be able to express our identity and perspectives without fear of consequences and retribution,” she wrote. “We should all be able to live as human beings — and to be recognized as such by the societies we live in.”

http://www.salon.com/2015/02/10/chelsea_manning_hired_by_the_guardian/

[Matt Collins]

Why do people continue to call this dude by his fake name?

[Suzanimal]

Why do people continue to call this dude by his fake name?

Because that what he(she?) wants to be called. Lot's of people have "fake" names. Tina Turner, Marilyn Monroe, Snoop Dogg, Gene Simmons, Carrot Top, Harry Houdini, Sting, Kirk Douglas, Busta Rhymes, Elton John...just to name a few.

I don't give a shit what he/she wants to be called.

[amy31416]

Because that what he(she?) wants to be called. Lot's of people have "fake" names. Tina Turner, Marilyn Monroe, Snoop Dogg, Gene Simmons, Carrot Top, Harry Houdini, Sting, Kirk Douglas, Busta Rhymes, Elton John...just to name a few.

I don't give a shit what he/she wants to be called.

Pretty sure that Collins doesn't go by his actual name either.

Hell, I had a "rap" name back in the day--AmyBFresh. :D

[William Tell]

Why do people continue to call this dude by his fake name?

Because political correctness.

[Christian Liberty]

Bradley Manning.

[luctor-et-emergo]

Why do people continue to call this dude by his fake name?

Probably because they, like me, don't see a problem with someone having issues with their gender. It's not my piece of cake but I'm not at all disturbed or offended by it, so the least I can do is respect his/her decision. It's confusing, for sure but I don't see a big problem with it.

[oyarde]

Because that what he(she?) wants to be called. Lot's of people have "fake" names. Tina Turner, Marilyn Monroe, Snoop Dogg, Gene Simmons, Carrot Top, Harry Houdini, Sting, Kirk Douglas, Busta Rhymes, Elton John...just to name a few.

I don't give a shit what he/she wants to be called.

I thought Snoop Dog and Carrot Top were real .

[brandon]

Interesting how so many people here who used to think Manning was a hero completely flipped once they found out she had gender identity issues. Pretty lame. Hope this job helps bring her a little happiness.

[Christian Liberty]

Interesting how so many people here who used to think Manning was a hero completely flipped once they found out she had gender identity issues. Pretty lame. Hope this job helps bring her a little happiness.

Its not lame at all, actually. I think he's a hero IN SPITE of his gender issues, but he's still a man.

[FunkBuddha]

Pretty sure that Collins doesn't go by his actual name either.

Hell, I had a "rap" name back in the day--AmyBFresh. :D

Mine was 2-nutz

[Suzanimal]

I thought Snoop Dog and Carrot Top were real .

I knew they were fake but Busta Rhymes had me fooled.

[specsaregood]

Because political correctness.

It isn't political correctness to call somebody by their preferred name. It has nothing to do with gay/gender/whatnot.

[Todd]

excuse me for being ignorant here, but is this guy/gal out of military prison? If not, how does the Guardian plan to have him write stories for them? Doesn't sound like an option you have in military prison.

[luctor-et-emergo]

excuse me for being ignorant here, but is this guy/gal out of military prison? If not, how does the Guardian plan to have him write stories for them? Doesn't sound like an option you have in military prison.

I suppose Manning (there's a way to just talk about the issue without involving gender into the discussion) could write letters ?

[kcchiefs6465]

excuse me for being ignorant here, but is this guy/gal out of military prison? If not, how does the Guardian plan to have him write stories for them? Doesn't sound like an option you have in military prison.
He's already wrote a couple from prison.

I imagine he gives the OP-eds to his lawyer.

[Suzanimal]

Mine was 2-nutz

:D

LOL

[acptulsa]

excuse me for being ignorant here, but is this guy/gal out of military prison? If not, how does the Guardian plan to have him write stories for them? Doesn't sound like an option you have in military prison.

Well, you know, what better way is there to kiss ass while Democrats are in power than to have your manhood cut off and rename yourself in honor of Chelsea Clinton?

[Acala]

Why do people continue to call this dude by his fake name?

I guess she hasn't had it tough enough so let's deny her the one tiny little speck of personal freedom she didn't already sacrifice for humanity? Is that the idea?

I try not to jump on the anti-collins bandwagon but sometimes you really deserve a pie in the face.

[Danke]

Pretty sure that Collins doesn't go by his actual name either.

Hell, I had a "rap" name back in the day--AmyBFresh. :D

You just now figured that out? It is Matilda Collins.

[dannno]

If the media really wanted some legitimacy they would make Edward Snowden CEO of CNN.

[Natural Citizen]

Why do people continue to call this dude by his fake name?

Slick way to re-write history. 50 years from now, the name Manning and all that was relative will be forgotten.

[kcchiefs6465]

Slick way to re-write history. 50 years from now, the name Manning and all that was relative will be forgotten.
According to people who know him and talk to him or have talked to him personally, he identifies as a woman and wants to be called Chelsea (I think he even changed his name, right?).

The name will not be remembered in history because of the people who 'write' the history books. Some of my school books were written and published after 2000 and not a once was Daniel Ellsberg's name. It is not because he doesn't deserve to be in a history book, though in those particular books it would be no honor to be listed, but because it strayed from the narrative.

[Matt Collins]

I guess she hasn't had it tough enough so let's deny her the one tiny little speck of personal freedom she didn't already sacrifice for humanity? Is that the idea?

I try not to jump on the anti-collins bandwagon but sometimes you really deserve a pie in the face.Why gratify someone's sick, twisted, perverse, and self-mutilating fantasy?

According to people who know him and talk to him or have talked to him personally, he identifies as a woman and wants to be called Chelsea (I think he even changed his name, right?).Just because one calls oneself a female does not actually make it so.

[Natural Citizen]

The name will not be remembered in history because of the people who 'write' the history books. Some of my school books were written and published after 2000 and not a once was Daniel Ellsberg's name. It is not because he doesn't deserve to be in a history book, though in those particular books it would be no honor to be listed, but because it strayed from the narrative.

I suppose that is essentially what I was getting at.

[amy31416]

Why gratify someone's sick, twisted, perverse, and self-mutilating fantasy?
Just because one calls oneself a female does not actually make it so.

I'd wager that he knows he's not genetically a female, and he should be free to make whatever choices he desires. How does it harm you?

Seriously, how does it harm anyone? What will he do with his adopted female identity that could possibly harm another human being?

Criticizing him for what he did and didn't do with the data he obtained is a legitimate debate--smearing him based on superficial bullshit is bullshit, and you're the one being an idiot--who even thinks about his gender identity enough to get pissed off about it? Perhaps some closet cases.

[kcchiefs6465]

Just because one calls oneself a female does not actually make it so.
But the difference is in approach.

Say for instance, me recognizing that him calling himself a woman does not biologically make him a woman does not change the fact that absent something affecting me personally, I really could not care and in general, I go out of my way to oblige people's requests. Barely going out of one's way to call someone what they wished to be called hardly relates to the debate regarding gender and the science behind human biology. It would be no different if a "Joseph" wished to be called "Joe." This would be even ignoring what he has done personally to shed light on the war in Iraq, etc.

There is no need to harp on the fact that he is not a woman. First, it's his life. It doesn't concern you. Second, calling someone by a particular name does not conclusively exclude or include gender. Third, what he has done, and what he was sentenced to, he ought be afforded respect regardless of whether that is, "Sir/Ma'am, etc."

[specsaregood]

But the difference is in approach.

Say for instance, me recognizing that him calling himself a woman does not biologically make him a woman does not change the fact that absent something affecting me personally, I really could not care and in general, go out of my way to oblige people's requests. Barely going out of one's way to call someone what they wished to be called hardly relates to the debate regarding gender and the science behind human biology. It would be no different if a "Joseph" wished to be called "Joe." This would be even ignoring what he has done personally to shed light on the war in Iraq, etc.

Let me explain the difference of opinion here. Your position is the one of somebody that is NOT an asshole. Glad I could clear that up for ya.

[Matt Collins]

I'd wager that he knows he's not genetically a female, and he should be free to make whatever choices he desires. How does it harm you?I never claimed it did harm me.




Seriously, how does it harm anyone? What will he do with his adopted female identity that could possibly harm another human being?I never said it did. I will say that it harms his family and maybe friends, at least emotionally.



https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

[Matt Collins]

I go out of my way to oblige people's requests. I do too but only to a point. When it is illogical, irrational, and downright ludicrous, I tend to draw the line.

This guy is really messed up and I feel bad for him. He obviously need serious help.



It would be no different if a "Joseph" wished to be called "Joe."

...

Second, calling someone by a particular name does not conclusively exclude or include gender. Incorrect...

Calling someone Bob vs calling them Linda does indeed denote gender, and this guy's gender hasn't changed as much as he would like to think it has. Why indulge such warped perversion by going along with it? :confused: :rolleyes:

Maybe if these sorts of things were more taboo than they are people would prefer not to do it for fear of being socially shunned instead of looking to draw attention to themselves.

[Acala]

Why gratify someone's sick, twisted, perverse, and self-mutilating fantasy?


Nearly every member of the human race is in thrall to some form of "sick, twisted, perverse, and self-mutilating fantasy". Including you, by the way. The funny thing is that when you are caught up in it, you are the last to know. But maybe if you can show some tolerance, kindness, and compassion for others who are wounded, others will show the same to you.

[jmdrake]

Pretty sure that Collins doesn't go by his actual name either.

Hell, I had a "rap" name back in the day--AmyBFresh. :D

LOL. Tube or it didn't happen. ;)

[jmdrake]

I clicked on this thinking that Manning would be blogging about foreign policy or freedom of the press or whatnot. I thought before clicking "I can't believe the government is going to allow him/her to do this from prison." Then after seeing what this is about....I'm not surprised. I think the PTB actually love to see him going on about his sexuality and not talk about the substance of what he's really famous for.

[kcchiefs6465]

I do too but only to a point. When it is illogical, irrational, and downright ludicrous, I tend to draw the line.
I entertain children's ideas, as well as the mentally feeble or sick, too. If something does not personally bother me, as in, provably affecting my rights, I don't much go out of my way to piss on beliefs or rain on parades. Considering the sacrifices that this particular individual made, my respect and common courtesy are only upped.



This guy is really messed up and I feel bad for him. He obviously need serious help.
When I hear people say this I get visions of reeducation and psychotropic 'therapy.' Probably rightly so, right? The sociopaths who callously murder while laughing about it, they're okay. Give them a hero's welcome. But let a man wish to be a woman and suddenly all common decency is thrown out the window.

Regardless of what help Manning may or may not need (as it frankly is none of anyone's business but his own), he was one of the few with a conscious.



Incorrect...

Calling someone Bob vs calling them Linda does indeed denote gender, and this guy's gender hasn't changed as much as he would like to think it has. Why indulge such warped perversion by going along with it? :confused: :rolleyes:
My point with regards to names is that anyone can call themselves anything. Anyone can call anyone else anything. That's the beauty of freedom! You are not in any way obligated to call someone by a particular name. But don't be surprised when people consider it dickish to not only not afford someone the common decency to call them by what they wish to be called, but with regards to this specifically, feeling the need to explain to grown adults that he is indeed a he and is not biologically a woman. Every Manning thread I get this simple nonsense. Yes, we understand he is not biologically a she.



Maybe if these sorts of things were more taboo than they are people would prefer not to do it for fear of being socially shunned instead of looking to draw attention to themselves.
Maybe.

Maybe if people do what they are going to do, you know, over that way, then I really couldn't care less about it. It's not bothering anybody. MYODB.

[Todd]

This whole thread has turned in to one big shiny distraction mess. I don't personally care either way what or whom Manning is. I'm confused by this gender thing as well, but the bigger picture is what Manning revealed, not his sexuality or his name.

So if the Guardian decides to emphasize his writing on gender over his revleations about the war, then they are part of the problem.

[jmdrake]

This whole thread has turned in to one big shiny distraction mess. I don't personally care either way what or whom Manning is. I'm confused by this gender thing as well, but the bigger picture is what Manning revealed, not his sexuality or his name.

So if the Guardian decides to emphasize his writing on gender over his revleations about the war, then they are part of the problem.

My point exactly! It's a psyop. Best believe that Manning will not be able to say anything substantive.

[pcosmar]

Incorrect...

Calling someone Bob vs calling them Linda does indeed denote gender,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOHPuY88Ry4

What about Girls named Sam.. or Bobby.. or Jamie? I have known all these.

Or a Guy named Erin,, Dana,, Carrol,, etc.

I have an issue with calling him a her,, but that is only because I know.. If I did not know,,and if the person looked Female,, I would have no issue.

I remember one.. a big one that I was never sure of.. Was it a guy trying to be feminine? or an ugly girl (a big un) trying to be a guy.?
I never could tell,, (I never asked)
Was a nice person though. ;)

[phill4paul]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

neg. rep.

[acptulsa]

I never claimed it did harm me.



I never said it did. I will say that it harms his family and maybe friends, at least emotionally.



https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Whose logical fallacy is a strawman? You're arguing that you're publicly denouncing a true hero's personal choices because that person's family might be affected, even though you have no clue if those people might not even be happy about the whole thing?

You wonder why you sometimes get a huge portion of this forum at your throat when you come off with these high and mighty rants and lectures. Let me explain it to you. We dislike having someone set themselves up as some kind of guardian for our morality when you not only don't seem to subscribe to it, but you don't even seem to understand the first precept of it.



'Everybody is running around in circles, announcing that somebody's pinched their liberty. Now the greatest aid that I know of that anyone could give the world today would be a correct definition of "liberty". What might be one class's liberty might be another class's poison. I guess absolute liberty couldn't mean anything but that anybody can do anything they want to, any time they want to. Well, any half-wit can tell you that wouldn't work. So the question arises, "How much liberty can I get away with?"

'Well, you can get no more liberty than you give. That's my definition, but you got perfect liberty to work out your own.'--Will Rogers

Now, shall we talk about who on this forum has shown the world how ballsy he is to anything like the same degree that Manning has? Never mind how much more principled Manning is. Just how ballsy Manning is...?

[amy31416]

I have a 2nd cousin who's transgender, she's a total sweetheart and I'd rather be around her and I'd trust her around my kid far more than I would someone who's made some disturbing comments about underage females.

[Matt Collins]

I entertain children's ideas, as well as the mentally feeble or sick, too. If something does not personally bother me, as in, provably affecting my rights, I don't much go out of my way to piss on beliefs or rain on parades. Considering the sacrifices that this particular individual made, my respect and common courtesy are only upped.Non-sequitur. What does his leaking classified information have to do with his attempt at altering his gender?



When I hear people say this I get visions of reeducation and psychotropic 'therapy.' Probably rightly so, right? The sociopaths who callously murder while laughing about it, they're okay. Give them a hero's welcome. But let a man wish to be a woman and suddenly all common decency is thrown out the window.No, completely incorrect and you are trying to tie things together that have nothing to do with each other. However the common decency broke down when he decided to attempt to alter his gender.




But don't be surprised when people consider it dickish to not only not afford someone the common decency to call them by what they wish to be called, but with regards to this specifically, feeling the need to explain to grown adults that he is indeed a he and is not biologically a woman.I don't really care what people think. And calling him by his girl name has nothing to do with common decency, it is about not giving in to a sick perversion.

[Matt Collins]

This whole thread has turned in to one big shiny distraction mess. He should've thought about that before he tried to change his gender. He has made himself completely irrelevant and toxic and seen as crazy (which he is) and fringe and warped etc. It has indeed become a complete distraction from his actions.

Snowden however can't be ignored, largely because he is such a normal regular guy and acts like it.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Righty: "Bradley Manning is a hero!"
Lefty: "It's Chelsea, but yes, Manning is a hero!"
Righty: "I think I'll stick with Bradley, but at least we can both agree he's heroic for leaking those documents."
Lefty: "What documents? Chelsea is a hero for blogging about her gender identity!"
Righty: "..."
Lefty: "Don't say "he", gendered pronouns are offensive. Unoffensive pronouns are zey/zem/hir/sie and xe."
Righty: "That's retarded."
Lefty: "The R word is offensive! Instead say super special amazing..."
Righty: "...I need a drink."

[The Free Hornet]

Its not lame at all, actually. I think he's a hero IN SPITE of his gender issues, but he's still a man.

More man than you, I'd wager. Or is that not the issue?

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Righty: "Bradley Manning is a hero!"
Lefty: "It's Chelsea, but yes, Manning is a hero!"
Righty: "I think I'll stick with Bradley, but at least we can both agree he's heroic for leaking those documents."
Lefty: "What documents? Chelsea is a hero for blogging about her gender identity!"
Righty: "..."
Lefty: "Don't say "he", gendered pronouns are offensive. Unoffensive pronouns are zey/zem/hir/sie and xe."
Righty: "That's retarded."
Lefty: "The R word is offensive! Instead say super special amazing..."
Righty: "...I need a drink."

That's not the conversation at hand and you know it. The "Righty" wants to ignore Manning's previous accomplishments because he is now a she.

[NIU Students for Liberty]

He should've thought about that before he tried to change his gender. He has made himself completely irrelevant and toxic and seen as crazy (which he is) and fringe and warped etc. It has indeed become a complete distraction from his actions.

Snowden however can't be ignored, largely because he is such a normal regular guy and acts like it.

Chelsea is seen as "toxic" because of people like you who seem to care more about Manning's personal life than what made her a hero in the first place.

[Cabal]

One must be quite a delicate little thing to become so offended by, and intolerant of something that is none of their concern, and has no affect on them whatsoever.

[VIDEODROME]

Could a Male to Female transgender having a more ironic last name than MANning?

[Philhelm]

Pretty sure that Collins doesn't go by his actual name either.

Hell, I had a "rap" name back in the day--AmyBFresh. :D

My porn name is Rex Barnsley. Although if I had my choice it would be C**k McStuffins.

[specsaregood]

That's not the conversation at hand and you know it. The "Righty" wants to ignore Manning's previous accomplishments because he is now a she.

Meh, I'd say I'm a righty and I couldn't give a crap about his/her gender issues. But I will say, he was "Bradley" when he released that information it was only after being tortured and satan knows what else the govt did to him that he suddenly had gender issues.

[muh_roads]

It sucks that this thread was derailed. This is awesome news to get people to listen to a new perspective.

[kcchiefs6465]

Non-sequitur. What does his leaking classified information have to do with his attempt at altering his gender?
Aside from some of his motivation for leaking the material being the frustration and inability to speak with anyone about his gender identity issues? Nothing, I suppose. And since it is indeed irrelevant, why do you care? There cannot be a simple discussion on the merits of him leaking what he did without the few who wish to harp on homosexuality, etc. Have you read his last few OP eds?



No, completely incorrect and you are trying to tie things together that have nothing to do with each other. However the common decency broke down when he decided to attempt to alter his gender.
Actually, they do. I have already shown how they are related.

Those maiming children, and firing upon first responders and journalists, well they are heroes, I'm told by the particularly convinced. Rather than ridiculing that profession and what occurred, Bradley Manning's sexual identification (which directly harms no one) is the issue. It shows what a backwards ass society this is. Even more so than men 'becoming' women, or anything of the sort. They glorify musclemen for the empire while using any and every thing against a person who raises legitimate questions and/or brings forth evidence of criminal conduct.



I don't really care what people think. And calling him by his girl name has nothing to do with common decency, it is about not giving in to a sick perversion.
He legally changed his name.

But whatever floats boats. As much as I don't care about what particular things Manning is into, I care even less what particular name you wish to call him.

[amy31416]

My porn name is Rex Barnsley. Although if I had my choice it would be C**k McStuffins.

NO NO NO NO NO! My kid's watched that show.

I don't have a porn name--yet. :p

[Brian4Liberty]

I'll reserve comment until I hear what Bruce Jenner has to say about this...

[Brian4Liberty]

My porn name is Rex Barnsley. Although if I had my choice it would be C**k McStuffins.

I'm guessing that is based on the first pet-first street formula?

[jonhowe]

Its not lame at all, actually. I think he's a hero IN SPITE of his gender issues, but he's still a man.


Bradley Manning.


Why do people continue to call this dude by his fake name?

Manning is a hero. Manning asks that we refer to her by female pronouns. It does not hurt anyone to do so. It hurts her when people do not do so. You can choose to be an ass about it if you want. There isn't (and shouldn't) be a law requiring you to. But by not doing so you're being an ass.

Referring to Rick Santorum was "frothy", as many do here, is akin to referring to Chelsea as Bradley. It is calling them a name they do not identify with or wish to be associated with. I'm ok with being a bit of an ass to a warmonger like Frothy. On the other hand, I am in awe of Chelsea Manning's sacrifice and will respect her wishes.


Why gratify someone's sick, twisted, perverse, and self-mutilating fantasy?


The only sick and twisted thing here is your attitude. This is a person rotting in jail for exposing war crimes and all you can do is fixate on their genitals. The thread is about Chelsea's new position, one which could help spread liberty minded ideas, and all you can do is chime in like an ass about a years old, completely irrelevant, issue. You were the first freaking reply in the thread and you managed to both derail the thread AND be a bigot. In ONE SENTENCE!

You amaze me in the worst ways possible. Constantly.

[MRK]

I have often niced in life, people who are the least normal try really hard to seek approval and look normal to fit in with the rest of society. They tend to berate the others who are also different but don't go out of their way to try to fit in like they do.

One can also see this in other areas - people who do not grow up from a well-off background seem to be obsessed with constantly talking about money, more so than the people who come from wealthier backgrounds. People who are also of not-so-beautiful development also seem to be obsessed with fashion or making themselves appear more beautiful than those who never felt a deficit in the area.

In some ways the same can be said about myself, so maybe that's why I notice it in other people too.