Obamacare penalty payers ask, 'Where's my refund?'

[jbauer]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-penalty-payers-ask-wheres-040300798.html

Deana Ard wants her tax refund as soon as possible. She says she files her return in mid-January every year and receives her refund within two weeks.
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This year, Ard said her refund is taking longer -- and she's blaming Obamacare.

Ard, who went without health insurance last year, doesn't mind having to pay a $160 Obamacare penalty as part of her 2014 tax return. But she says her $7,124 refund is on hold, and the IRS won't tell her why.

Ard is not alone. Scores of readers have written CNNMoney that they too were subject to the Obamacare penalty and that their refunds are taking longer than usual. Ard has rallied more than 1,000 people to a Facebook page devoted to those in a similar situation.

The IRS says refunds are not being delayed. "More than 9 of 10 refunds are issued in less than 21 days," the agency said in a statement to CNNMoney. "Refunds are going out under our normal processes, and there are no systemic delays specifically related to [Affordable Care Act] issues."

Related: Obamacare tax surprise looming

The best way for filers to check their status of their check is to use the Where's My Refund? site, according to the IRS. Representatives can only do further research if it's been more than 21 days.

Though 21 days have yet to pass since the start of the tax filing season, some early filers are getting antsy because they usually receive their refunds more promptly. They are getting their transcripts through IRS.gov, which shows them codes associated with the processing of their return. Many are seeing TC 570, which indicates the refund is frozen while the return is being examined.

Related: IRS warns of tax refund delays

Up to 6 million Americans could be subject to the Obamacare penalty, according to Treasury Department estimates. But not every filer who has already paid the penalty is seeing their refund held up.

Ard and others interviewed said they know of people subject to the penalty who have received refunds. At the same time, they also know of many friends and family who are not subject to the penalty and who filed their returns later than they did and already have their checks.

Jessica Johnson is one of those caught in limbo with a TC 570 after paying a $281 penalty. The married mother of three, whose return was accepted on Jan. 20, is waiting for a $9,450 refund from the IRS to pay credit card bills and add to her savings. Last year, she said she got her refund in less than 10 days.

Johnson, who now has insurance under her husband's plan, has called the IRS nine times.

"I'm frustrated," said Johnson, who lives in Savannah, Ga. "I just want to know what's going on. It's ridiculous that I am being penalized again for being honest about not having healthcare."

Related: Millions to owe Obamacare tax penalty

For Daniel Flowers, an $8,153 refund means being able to keep the lights on and his car running. The Cincinnati, Ohio, resident was counting on having the funds in a week, which is how long it usually takes. He's called the IRS, but they say they can't tell him anything until after 21 days has passed.

Flowers, who works in a hotel and paid $190 for not having insurance, may not have that kind of time. He's gotten his landlord and others to give him some extensions, but the lights will go off next week.

"I need this refund. I worked hard for this," said Flowers, who takes care of his two young nieces. "I can't access my own money."

Related: 'Devastating erosion' of taxpayer services at IRS

View this article on CNNMoney

[jbauer]

So I did the math and went here: http://taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/acacalculator.cfm

For a person to have a $160 obamacare penalty they've earned in the $21,500 range. How in the F is someone who earns $21k getting a $7,124 refund???!!!!!???

My guess would be that its through a bunch of tax credits and maybe a slight excessive withholding but holy sheet. Why do we have a tax system set up that would pay someone $7k??!!??

No wonder the titanic is going down.

Did the math on the other two:

married with 3 kids = $48500 combined income with a refund of $9450

single hotel worker = $30k - $8154 refund.


We are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These tax ticks are drowning because their income redistribution check is a week late. Just imagine what happens when refunds don't go out some year???

[aGameOfThrones]

"I need this refund. I worked hard for this," said Flowers "I can't access my own money."

"I need this refund. I worked hard for this," said Flowers "I can't access my own money."

"I need this refund. I worked hard for this," said Flowers "I can't access my own money."

[tod evans]

"Refund" my ol' ass!

You can't get a 7k refund if you only pay in $2k.

[jbauer]

Maybe its a "earned responsibility" check?? You know because we have "shared responsibility" penalties.

[otherone]

For a person to have a $160 obamacare penalty they've earned in the $21,500 range. How in the F is someone who earns $21k getting a $7,124 refund???!!!!!???



Schedule EIC. Earned income tax credit. Poor people with dependents get huge "refunds" when they've paid NO income tax. Bush 1's fucking brainchild. The single reason why companies like HR Block exist, or "Liberty" Tax Service. Millions of middle class taxpayers pay millions of taxes that are in turn handed to millions of tax ticks.

[AuH20]

"I need this refund. I worked hard for this," said Flowers "I can't access my own money."

"I need this refund. I worked hard for this," said Flowers "I can't access my own money."

"I need this refund. I worked hard for this," said Flowers "I can't access my own money."

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-a-government-that-robs-peter-to-pay-paul-can-always-depend-on-the-support-of-paul-george-bernard-shaw-168774.jpg

[oyarde]

Good God .

[ctiger2]

What a moron lending $7,124 of your money at 0% for a year. Everyone's taxes should be setup so they owe at the end of the year. If you're getting a refund, you're setup wrong.

[tod evans]

What a moron lending $7,124 of your money at 0% for a year. Everyone's taxes should be setup so they owe at the end of the year. If you're getting a refund, you're setup wrong.

You're missing the point....

This fine individual most likely "paid in" well under $2500. the remainder is free stuff from thee-n-me.......

[Brian4Liberty]

What a moron lending $7,124 of your money at 0% for a year. Everyone's taxes should be setup so they owe at the end of the year. If you're getting a refund, you're setup wrong.

That's what I was thinking too.


You're missing the point....

This fine individual most likely "paid in" well under $2500. the remainder is free stuff from thee-n-me.......

But this does make sense. She files early every year to get her free money as fast as she can.

[jbauer]

Right, but by the time you add some kids, and earned income credit and the other countless credits I'd guess that less then $2500 was withhled from her W2 check and more then $5k is "free" money.


That's what I was thinking too.



But this does make sense. She files early every year to get her free money as fast as she can.

[ZENemy]

lol, and what, people think its going to get better?

This is going to get SO much worse.

Thank god I have opted out.

[Thor]

But this does make sense. She files early every year to get her free money as fast as she can.

Bingo!

[morfeeis]

Daniel Flowers:Flowers, who works in a hotel and paid $190 for not having insurance, may not have that kind of time. He's gotten his landlord and others to give him some extensions, but the lights will go off next week.

I hate the tax system also but man, how in the hell are you depending on a refund so bad that your lights are about to be turned off and you're about to put out of your apartment? what the hell do you do the other 11 moths of the year? You also have two little girls to look after, if you have cable and a cell phone i'm going to shit a brick.

Most people have spending problems not income problems (myself included).

[jllundqu]

If you're getting a $9000 "return", you are doing something very wrong on your withholdings. I purposely increased my withholdings to LOWER my tax return (ie increase my paycheck) and I still am getting a $3300 federal return.... gonna go back in and change it again.... I want my return to be as close to $1000 as possible.

[jbauer]

If you're getting a $9000 "return", you are doing something very wrong on your withholdings. I purposely increased my withholdings to LOWER my tax return (ie increase my paycheck) and I still am getting a $3300 federal return.... gonna go back in and change it again.... I want my return to be as close to $1000 as possible.

Nope, I've been so ticked about this I checked:

http://www.efile.com/tax-credit/earned-income-credit/
For 2014, the maximum Earned Income Tax Credit per taxpayer is:

$496 with no Qualifying Children
$3,305 with one Qualifying Child
$5,460 with two Qualifying Children
$6,143 with three or more Qualifying Children
--------------------------------------------------

So if you are married and have 3 kids you'll get $1k/kid PLUS $6k in eic. So 9 grand!!!!!!!!

It looks like the EIC phases all the way out at $47k, but belly up to the troth if you're at $23k. Plus, if you're making $23k or less think of all the other benefits you're getting. Food, housing, utilities, etc etc etc.

[TheCount]

If you're getting a $9000 "return", you are doing something very wrong on your withholdings. I purposely increased my withholdings to LOWER my tax return (ie increase my paycheck) and I still am getting a $3300 federal return.... gonna go back in and change it again.... I want my return to be as close to $1000 as possible.

Me too. I thought I'd done the math right, but this year my refund is entirely too big.

[devil21]

Don't forget kiddies, the IRS can only collect the "penalty" if you are due a refund. They have no enforcement tools to collect it if you owe the IRS banker tribute, except strongly worded letters. If you are directed to pay a penalty, according to the forms, even if you owe actual taxes for the year, you do not have to comply.

eta: speaking of refund delays, Intuit has suspended turbotax state tax return filings, claiming a lot of SS fraud being detected. Makes my spidey senses tingle. It's been obvious for a few years that refunds are being processed slower and slower.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2015/02/06/turbotax-temporarily-halts-e-filing-in-all-states-amid-fraud-concerns/

[angelatc]

So I did the math and went here: http://taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/acacalculator.cfm

For a person to have a $160 obamacare penalty they've earned in the $21,500 range. How in the F is someone who earns $21k getting a $7,124 refund???!!!!!???


Earned income credit.

[GunnyFreedom]

You don't get an EITC if you are on a 1099, no matter what. Self employed are 2nd class citizens. I'm not saying I should get it, I'm saying others shouldn't.

[angelatc]

You don't get an EITC if you are on a 1099, no matter what. Self employed are 2nd class citizens. I'm not saying I should get it, I'm saying others shouldn't.

Depends on the type of 1099, but you can absolutely get EIC with self employment income. Box 7 "Non-employee compensation" counts as earned income. (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/What-is-Earned-Income%3F)

[GunnyFreedom]

Depends on the type of 1099, but you can absolutely get EIC with self employment income. Box 7 "Non-employee compensation" counts as earned income. (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/What-is-Earned-Income%3F)

Huh. Only time I've ever remember getting an EIC was back in the day when I worked for Kinkos. Not that I wanted it, to be honest, but you fill out your 1040EZ and you get what you get. Every other time I got "if you earned money from box whatever then you do not qualify for the EIC." I had someone else do my taxes when I was in the NCGA so I dunno if I got one then or not.

[angelatc]

Huh. Only time I've ever remember getting an EIC was back in the day when I worked for Kinkos. Not that I wanted it, to be honest, but you fill out your 1040EZ and you get what you get. Every other time I got "if you earned money from box whatever then you do not qualify for the EIC." I had someone else do my taxes when I was in the NCGA so I dunno if I got one then or not.

Self employment income is one of the most popular ways that people cheat the system. They don't even bother with 1099's. They just claim enough self employment income to get the max credit. Claim $12,000 with 3 kids, and you'll get about $6000 back, even though you didn't pay a dime in.

[angelatc]

Schedule EIC. Earned income tax credit. Poor people with dependents get huge "refunds" when they've paid NO income tax. Bush 1's fucking brainchild. The single reason why companies like HR Block exist, or "Liberty" Tax Service. Millions of middle class taxpayers pay millions of taxes that are in turn handed to millions of tax ticks.

Whenever I see people crabbing that a "fair tax" would cost poor people too much, the only thing I can think is that they obviously have't seen how much money these poor people spend on getting their taxes prepared by the pros. Prep fees of $3-400, plus $50 to get those fees taken out of their refund.

[GunnyFreedom]

Self employment income is one of the most popular ways that people cheat the system. They don't even bother with 1099's. They just claim enough self employment income to get the max credit. Claim $12,000 with 3 kids, and you'll get about $6000 back, even though you didn't pay a dime in.

If you legitimately work on a 1099, then you have to claim all the 1099's you get (they copy the IRS on them). Otherwise I'll end up with black pajama IRS goons on my doorstep screaming AUDIT before mule-kicking my front door in. :p

[angelatc]

If you legitimately work on a 1099, then you have to claim all the 1099's you get (they copy the IRS on them). Otherwise I'll end up with black pajama IRS goons on my doorstep screaming AUDIT before mule-kicking my front door in. :p

Sure, but that doesn't mean you can't claim MORE income than you were 1099'd for, you see.

[GunnyFreedom]

Sure, but that doesn't mean you can't claim MORE income than you were 1099'd for, you see.

Ahhh, OK I see. Interesting. I guess I just get the wrong kind of 1099's for any of this stuff.

[angelatc]

Ahhh, OK I see. Interesting. I guess I just get the wrong kind of 1099's for any of this stuff.

Or the fine folks issuing them aren't doing it right. If you are earning money from working, it should qualify. Passive income (dividends, gambling winnings, stuff like that) is excluded though. So all that trust fund cash....nope.

Or you make too much money. Single with no kids, EIC tops out at $14,950 this year. Max credit less than $500. It's the kids that make it pay off big time.

[GunnyFreedom]

Or the fine folks issuing them aren't doing it right. If you are earning money from working, it should qualify. Passive income (dividends, gambling winnings, stuff like that) is excluded though. So all that trust fund cash....nope.

Or you make too much money. Single with no kids, EIC tops out at $14,950 this year. Max credit less than $500. It's the kids that make it pay off big time.

That's probably it. I certainly do generally make more than $15k. The one time I only made $5k though (it was 2010, I was campaigning for office that year, and living on my emergency food) I ended up owing $500, no EIC. I couldn't believe it. I'd heard all these stories about 40-something percent who don't pay taxes, I thought for sure in a year with only $5000 income I would end up as one of them. I didn't. I was thinking, "If I'm not one of the 40-something percent who don't pay taxes when I only made $5000 last year, then what in the hell does one have to do to be a part of that group?" lol

[devil21]

Sure, but that doesn't mean you can't claim MORE income than you were 1099'd for, you see.

So you're telling Gunny to commit fraud on his taxes? Is that what I'm reading here?

[Anti Federalist]

All around, at all of us:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2302/2510825375_176f1608a0.jpg

[phill4paul]

All around, at all of us:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2302/2510825375_176f1608a0.jpg

I don't file. I don't pay. Me too?

[Anti Federalist]

I don't file. I don't pay. Me too?

Nope... ;)

[Brian4Liberty]

Self employment income is one of the most popular ways that people cheat the system. They don't even bother with 1099's. They just claim enough self employment income to get the max credit. Claim $12,000 with 3 kids, and you'll get about $6000 back, even though you didn't pay a dime in.

Interesting.


So you're telling Gunny to commit fraud on his taxes? Is that what I'm reading here?

It's always interesting to hear how people in the real world work the system.

Next up, Zippy or some other apologist.gov will chime in that there is very little fraud overall, and that never, ever, could a non-US citizen use any of these tricks.

[angelatc]

So you're telling Gunny to commit fraud on his taxes? Is that what I'm reading here?


Ha ha!!! No!!! LOL! I was using the collective you, not the personal you!

[angelatc]

Interesting. It's always interesting to hear how people in the real world work the system.

Next up, Zippy or some other apologist.gov will chime in that there is very little fraud overall, and that never, ever, could a non-US citizen use any of these tricks.


Turbotax has stopped processing state returns because someone somewhere figured out that the states don't cross check SSNs against each other. So, if I were an identity thief, and I stole Philll4Paul's SSN, I wouldn't file a return in PA because that's where he (presumably) lives. But the other 49 states? That number could be gold there.

Raise your hand if you think this will lead to a massive new federal oversight system.

[CaptainAmerica]

"Refund" my ol' ass!

You can't get a 7k refund if you only pay in $2k.

maybe if you count inflation ;)

[amy31416]

Whenever I see people crabbing that a "fair tax" would cost poor people too much, the only thing I can think is that they obviously have't seen how much money these poor people spend on getting their taxes prepared by the pros. Prep fees of $3-400, plus $50 to get those fees taken out of their refund.

$300-$400???

Whaaaaat?

[GunnyFreedom]

$300-$400???

Whaaaaat?

Wow, right? I thought only people making over $75k with a bunch of profitable investments in addition paid like that for tax prep. I usually do them myself, but even when I didn't I paid like $25.

[amy31416]

Wow, right? I thought only people making over $75k with a bunch of profitable investments in addition paid like that for tax prep. I usually do them myself, but even when I didn't I paid like $25.

I've paid that much for a car.

[angelatc]

I've paid that much for a car.

Ha! Yes, me too!

It's the power of advertising, and it kills me. Some of them don't care how much it costs, because what's $400 when you're getting $6000? But others....leet's just say I'm not cut out to do this for a living.

But for those of you wondering why I do not just hang my own shingle out ... it's because those same people that I genuinely feel sorry for can't scrape up $50 to pay the fee up front, and small preparers can't do refund advances like the big players do. It is expensive to be poor.

And the government is now licensing paid preparers.....and we all know what licensing means.

[phill4paul]

Turbotax has stopped processing state returns because someone somewhere figured out that the states don't cross check SSNs against each other. So, if I were an identity thief, and I stole Philll4Paul's SSN, I wouldn't file a return in PA because that's where he (presumably) lives. But the other 49 states? That number could be gold there.

Raise your hand if you think this will lead to a massive new federal oversight system.

More than likely. Though I would wish that it would lead more of the "governed" to revoke their consent.

[amy31416]

Ha! Yes, me too!

It's the power of advertising, and it kills me. Some of them don't care how much it costs, because what's $400 when you're getting $6000? But others....leet's just say I'm not cut out to do this for a living.

But for those of you wondering why I do not just hang my own shingle out ... it's because those same people that I genuinely feel sorry for can't scrape up $50 to pay the fee up front, and small preparers can't do refund advances like the big players do. It is expensive to be poor.

And the government is now licensing paid preparers.....and we all know what licensing means.

Licensing. Kiss of death for the peons.

If anyone here lives in Ohio, my cousin is a tax preparer and she can probably help you.

[Anti Federalist]

Ha! Yes, me too!

It's the power of advertising, and it kills me. Some of them don't care how much it costs, because what's $400 when you're getting $6000? But others....leet's just say I'm not cut out to do this for a living.

But for those of you wondering why I do not just hang my own shingle out ... it's because those same people that I genuinely feel sorry for can't scrape up $50 to pay the fee up front, and small preparers can't do refund advances like the big players do.

It is expensive to be poor.

And the government is now licensing paid preparers.....and we all know what licensing means.

I call it "Dickensian Fascism".

[oyarde]

Wow, right? I thought only people making over $75k with a bunch of profitable investments in addition paid like that for tax prep. I usually do them myself, but even when I didn't I paid like $25.

Mine are complicated with multiple forms etc , I pay $75 , but know of people who have simple taxes that pay $200 - $400 .

[Zippyjuan]

$300-$400???

Whaaaaat?

I use Free File. I do have to pay maybe $20 for my state return. With the mortgage paid off, I don't get to itemize anything- I don't have enough other deductions other than my IRA contributions and personal exemptions.

[Suzanimal]

Mine are complicated with multiple forms etc , I pay $75 , but know of people who have simple taxes that pay $200 - $400 .

Mine are complicated too and I pay $300.00. I don't get a refund, btw.

[JK/SEA]

refund?...spend it here saturday...

oops...sorry suz...didn't see your post..

[Stratovarious]

I don't have much to add about someone milking the system, but I do have a comment on the op title.
'Obamacare penalty payers ask, 'Where's my refund?'
I have always received my e file returns within days, usually 7 to 10 ± .
I paid my fine for not having Obama Care (now I'm less able to afford Health Care Insurance, just like Obama told me when he was against Mandatory Compliance).
My Avg wait time has come and gone about 3 times, I still won't be issued a refund for a few more days according to
the site.
After 20 some days the return info page change, cryptic and stark appearance telling me
basically ,...we'll let you know when we're ready to let you know... , I got the impression I was no longer welcome
to inquire.
I'm guessing someone went back to read through the 20,000 pages to make sure they can't squeeze another drop
of fines out of me.

[jbauer]

I doubt it. I moved from MN back in 2004. They sent me a nastygram letter (TO MY NEW ADDRESS IN ANOTHER STATE) in 2010 asking me why I hadn't paid them any state income taxes since 2004. It took 'em 6 years to get to me from moving away from their socialist utopia. They system is broken.


Turbotax has stopped processing state returns because someone somewhere figured out that the states don't cross check SSNs against each other. So, if I were an identity thief, and I stole Philll4Paul's SSN, I wouldn't file a return in PA because that's where he (presumably) lives. But the other 49 states? That number could be gold there.

Raise your hand if you think this will lead to a massive new federal oversight system.

[Suzanimal]

refund?...spend it here saturday...

oops...sorry suz...didn't see your post..

That's okay. My accountant says I need to have more kids to get a refund.

[otherone]

I doubt it. I moved from MN back in 2004. They sent me a nastygram letter (TO MY NEW ADDRESS IN ANOTHER STATE) in 2010 asking me why I hadn't paid them any state income taxes since 2004. It took 'em 6 years to get to me from moving away from their socialist utopia. They system is broken.

I wonder if the six years is significant, in that taxes may be uncollectible after seven? Were any institutions generating IRS forms for you from within MN during that time? Were you a self-reporter while in MN (self-employed?). AngelaTC might know a reason.

[TheCount]

I wonder if the six years is significant, in that taxes may be uncollectible after seven? Were any institutions generating IRS forms for you from within MN during that time? Were you a self-reporter while in MN (self-employed?). AngelaTC might know a reason.

There's a critical mass of taxes owed that you have to hit before it's "worth it" for them to come after you.

It may be that leaving the state could have triggered it, because if he had stayed in state they could have waited a couple more years and gone after him for a large amount of money. Obviously, they knew they couldn't accumulate more owed taxes now that he was not in-state.

[RJB]

"End the Fed."
-Ron Paul

[jbauer]

All nopes. I even held a nonresident license with them. Since tn doesn't have a state income tax they saw I wasn't filing anywhere.


I wonder if the six years is significant, in that taxes may be uncollectible after seven? Were any institutions generating IRS forms for you from within MN during that time? Were you a self-reporter while in MN (self-employed?). AngelaTC might know a reason.

[otherone]

All nopes. I even held a nonresident license with them. Since tn doesn't have a state income tax they saw I wasn't filing anywhere.

Ah. Makes sense. They were questioning whether you "actually" left, perhaps.

[paleocon1]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-penalty-payers-ask-wheres-040300798.html

..............................................

"I need this refund. I worked hard for this," said Flowers, who takes care of his two young nieces. "I can't access my own money."

Related: 'Devastating erosion' of taxpayer services at IRS

View this article on CNNMoney

He was a Fool to leave that money with the IRS all year.