Vaccines can cause mental retardation in children?

[Havax]

They are saying there is 0 evidence of this and it makes Rand look lIke a kook. Is he taking the same position that they can cure autisum? Isn't that debunked?

[randomname]

Senator Rand Paul, facing a backlash over his comments that cast doubt on whether he believes vaccines can pose a health risk to children, asserted on Tuesday that he believes vaccinations are indeed safe and that all parents should have their children inoculated.

To prove his point, Mr. Paul invited a reporter with him to watch him get his booster vaccination for Hepatitis A.

“It just annoys me that I’m being characterized as someone who’s against vaccines,” Mr. Paul said as he settled into a chair in an examination room in the Capitol physician’s office.

“There’s 400 headlines now that say ‘Paul says vaccines cause mental disorders,'” he added. “That’s not what I said. I said I’ve heard of people who’ve had vaccines and they see a temporal association and they believe that.”

Speaking on CNBC yesterday, Mr. Paul said he was aware of “many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines.”

Mr. Paul clarified on Tuesday that he believed the science was definitive on the matter and that vaccines are not harmful. As a physician himself (he is an ophthalmologist), he said he was irked to see his views characterized otherwise. “I think the science is clear that if you compare the risks of taking a vaccine to the ill effects of taking a vaccine, it’s overwhelming.”

Mr. Paul got the booster on Tuesday because he was vaccinated last year before traveling to Guatemala.

The doctor’s visit was not without its own minor complications. Mr. Paul, who invited a reporter from The New York Times and had a member of his staff with a camera in tow, ran into resistance from the doctor’s staff, who were concerned that their presence in the office to document the vaccination was a privacy violation.

“It’s my privacy,” Mr. Paul assured the staff members.

[specsaregood]

They are saying there is 0 evidence of this and it makes Rand look lIke a kook. Is he taking the same position that they can cure autisum? Isn't that debunked?

FWIW, Randal never said autism or retardation. if you read the drug possible sideeffects warnings on the manufacturers or CDC websites they list a number of mental disorder possible side effects.

[Havax]

Ok but he said they cause mental retardation which is causing everyone to turn on him because he's believing in something with no evidence supporting it.

[specsaregood]

Ok but he said they cause mental retardation which is causing everyone to turn on him because he's believing in something with no evidence supporting it.

No he did not. Did you listen to the interview? anybody saying he said that is either outright lying or misinformed.

He said:


I've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines.

[mit26chell]

Ok but he said they cause mental retardation

No he didn't.

[thoughtomator]

More dangerous is vaccine propaganda causing mental retardation in voting-age adults.

[jjdoyle]

More dangerous is vaccine propaganda causing mental retardation in voting-age adults.

I agree! I would say there is more than ample proof vaccines cause mental retardation. How else do we explain President Obama getting 60,000,000+ votes, and Mitt Romney getting nearly 60,000,000? I would guess the majority of those people voting for President Obama and Mitt Romney were vaccinated...

If that isn't the definition of mental retardation of the voters, I don't know what would be...

But seriously, this could be an easy chance for Rand to let those parents with children that have been harmed by vaccines to speak up. I personally know a friend who has video of their child making normal baby noises (cooing/babyling/etc.) before a set of vaccines, then autistic symptoms set in after a set of vaccines...

Also have another friend whose wife works with younger children with mental disabilities, and he said many of the parents will tell her in regards to things about the children and the issues, "They changed after the vaccines."

[Rudeman]

Since all the vaccine hysteria is about Measles I decided to look up the side-effects for the MMR & MMRV vaccine. Here is what the CDC states on their website:


MMR vaccine side-effects
(Measles, Mumps, and Rubella)
What are the risks from MMR vaccine?

A vaccine, like any medicine, is capable of causing serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions.

The risk of MMR vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.

Getting MMR vaccine is much safer than getting measles, mumps or rubella.

Most people who get MMR vaccine do not have any serious problems with it.

Mild Problems

Fever (up to 1 person out of 6)
Mild rash (about 1 person out of 20)
Swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck (about 1 person out of 75)

If these problems occur, it is usually within 7-12 days after the shot. They occur less often after the second dose.

Moderate Problems

Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses)
Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4)
Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses)

Severe Problems (Very Rare)

Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including:
Deafness
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage

These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine.


MMRV vaccine side-effects
(Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella)
What are the risks from MMRV vaccine?

A vaccine, like any medicine, is capable of causing serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions. The risk of MMRV vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.

Getting MMRV vaccine is much safer than getting measles, mumps, rubella, or chickenpox.

Most children who get MMRV vaccine do not have any problems with it.

Mild Problems

Fever (about 1 child out of 5).
Mild rash (about 1 child out of 20).
Swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck (rare).

If these problems happen, it is usually within 5-12 days after the first dose. They happen less often after the second dose.

Moderate Problems

Seizure caused by fever (about 1 child in 1,250 who get MMRV), usually 5-12 days after the first dose. They happen less often when MMR and varicella vaccines are given at the same visit as separate shots (about 1 child in 2,500 who get these two vaccines), and rarely after a 2nd dose of MMRV.
Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 child out of 40,000).

Severe Problems (Very Rare)
Several severe problems have been reported following MMR vaccine, and might also happen after MMRV. These include severe allergic reactions (fewer than 4 per million), and problems such as:

Deafness.
Long-term seizures, coma, lowered consciousness.
Permanent brain damage.

Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#mmr

[freejack]

My nephew developed encephalitis immediately after receiving the DTAP vaccine. The diagnosis came from the head of pediatrics at one of the top hospitals in my city. My nephew is also autistic. No one can say for certain whether the encephalitis is what caused his autism but there's no doubt what caused the encephalitis. Looking very quickly, you'll find that brain swelling can cause a host of permanent neurological issues one of which is mental retardation.

[Inkblots]

Ok but he said they cause mental retardation which is causing everyone to turn on him because he's believing in something with no evidence supporting it.

It's a scientific fact that in some cases, yes, vaccines do cause mental disability and impaired brain function. Rudeman has already linked to the CDC webpage listing vaccine side effects, and, as you can see, several of them can cause "Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness [and] Permanent brain damage" in rare cases.

The pro-vaccine hysterics who claim that vaccines can never cause mental disability are no better than the anti-vaccine hysterics who deny that vaccines are safe and effective in the vast majority of cases. These media liberal arts majors are flipping their wigs at Sen. Paul precisely because he knows more about medical science than they do.

[bocelli]

I have worked with brain-injured children for many, many years. I have known at least 150 cases where the neurological symptoms appeared right after a vaccine. Therefore, it is evident to me that, at least in some cases -and I dare to say with a probability higher than anyone is reporting- vaccines can cause, among other problems, autism, mental retardation, etc. Furthermore, I have had conversations with former large laboratory employees, whom I completely trust, who have shared information from these companies that clearly show the danger of vaccines. I have yet to see clear scientific evidence of the effectiveness of vaccines: the only way that that can be established is by comparing 2 large enough samples of people, one that receives the vaccine and the other that doesn't, within the same population with similar demographic characteristics, that, within THE SAME TIME FRAME, show significantly different illness rates. For instance, Polio rates had very significantly started to decrease BEFORE the vaccine was released, due to changes in living conditions, so to attribute to the Polio vaccine so much merit is wrong.
Vaccines are given massively to people with different medical histories, characteristics, in different environments. Most doctors don't even ask questions before giving a vaccine. That, by itself, should raise red flags all over the place.
Finally, and more importantly, the government must have NO SAY in what parents decide for their children, period. There should be absolutely no discussion about this point.

[idiom]

Giving vaccines to children has been proven to cause retardation in nearby adults.

[Dr.3D]

This is like saying, eating peanuts can't cause certain people to die.

Individuals have different reactions to vaccines.

Out of the millions of people, there is bound to be somebody who is allergic to something others don't have a problem with.

[bocelli]

This is like saying, eating peanuts can't cause certain people to die.

Individuals have different reactions to vaccines.

Out of the millions of people, there is bound to be somebody who is allergic to something others don't have a problem with.


This is true, BUT:
1) Vaccines do NOT decrease the probability of illness, and
2) Exactly because of what you said, even if an MD is -incorrectly- convinced of the need to vaccinate a child, BEFORE he does it he should study EVERYTHING about that child, and not offer him a STANDARDIZED solution.

Once again, the important point is that PARENTS should decide, and the government SHOULD NEVER IMPOSE. Rand is incorrect in saying that some vaccines should be voluntary. ALL OF THEM must be voluntary.

[idiom]

1) Vaccines do NOT decrease the probability of illness.

If that was true of all vaccines ever, then why would anyone vaccinate at all? Its not a feel good operation.

[angelatc]

This is like saying, eating peanuts can't cause certain people to die.

Individuals have different reactions to vaccines.

Out of the millions of people, there is bound to be somebody who is allergic to something others don't have a problem with.

That's actually why some of the potential side effects are listed in the "warnings" even though it isn't actually proved that it is a potential side effect. If a test subject develops a condition during the clinical trials, then it is required that condition be listed as a possible side effect even if it wasn't directly related to the vaccine. SIDs is a prime example of that. There is no evidence that it is related to vaccines, but it is still listed as a potential side effect for the MMR.

The odds of developing a permanent side effect from a vaccine is infinitesimally smaller than developing one from the disease they protect from. It's only hard because the anti vaxxers are lunatics.

[angelatc]

Giving vaccines to children has been proven to cause retardation in nearby adults.

I would think that not giving vaccines has that effect.

[heavenlyboy34]

It seems this subject causes retardation among people who get sucked into a debate about it if my forum experience is any indicator. :D

[bocelli]

That's actually why some of the potential side effects are listed in the "warnings" even though it isn't actually proved that it is a potential side effect. If a test subject develops a condition during the clinical trials, then it is required that condition be listed as a possible side effect even if it wasn't directly related to the vaccine. SIDs is a prime example of that. There is no evidence that it is related to vaccines, but it is still listed as a potential side effect for the MMR.

The odds of developing a permanent side effect from a vaccine is infinitesimally smaller than developing one from the disease they protect from. It's only hard because the anti vaxxers are lunatics.

It would be impossible to explain why vaccines don't work and the dangers of them in this forum.
I would like to recommend, among several books with serious scientific discussions on this subject, Tim O'Shea's book "Vaccination is not Immunization", where he discusses each and every vaccine. I believe it should be a must read for every parent.

[fisharmor]

Mr Rand Paul, meet Mrs Debra Medina. She will be your guide as you enter the politically irrelevant zone.

[HVACTech]

Is he taking the same position that they can cure autisum?
:rolleyes:

[idiom]

It would be impossible to explain why vaccines don't work and the dangers of them in this forum.
I would like to recommend, among several books with serious scientific discussions on this subject, Tim O'Shea's book "Vaccination is not Immunization", where he discusses each and every vaccine. I believe it should be a must read for every parent.


http://i.imgur.com/nRzeDwD.webm

[Bergie Bergeron]

Mr Rand Paul, meet Mrs Debra Medina. She will be your guide as you enter the politically irrelevant zone.
Nope.

[bocelli]

http://i.imgur.com/nRzeDwD.webm


Unfortunately, I could not open this video.

[SilentBull]

Mr Rand Paul, meet Mrs Debra Medina. She will be your guide as you enter the politically irrelevant zone.

Not even close. What Rand said is being completely distorted. The media is taking advantage of the fact that most people are just too stupid to think about anything that's too complex. Being pro vaccines while acknowledging the rare cases of side effects....that's just too much for the average moron to think about. You can only be pro or against, and you better ridicule the other side, or you'll be accused of agreeing with them.

[navy-vet]

It would be impossible to explain why vaccines don't work and the dangers of them in this forum.
I would like to recommend, among several books with serious scientific discussions on this subject, Tim O'Shea's book "Vaccination is not Immunization", where he discusses each and every vaccine. I believe it should be a must read for every parent.
:rolleyes:

[GunnyFreedom]

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf



M-M-R® II
(MEASLES, MUMPS, and
RUBELLA VIRUS VACCINE LIVE)
DESCRIPTION
M-M-R® II (Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Virus Vaccine Live) is a live virus vaccine for vaccination against measles (rubeola), mumps, and rubella (German measles).


Nervous System
Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) (see CONTRAINDICATIONS); subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS); acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM); transverse myelitis; febrile convulsions; afebrile convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis; polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia.

[GunnyFreedom]

What they are trying to do is to distort his position to claim he linked vaccines to autism. This is a lie. The side effects he is describing are well documented (if rare) reactions to adjuvants like thimerosal that cause seizures, high fever, and swelling of the brain that may lead to permanent brain damage, and showed up during clinical trials. The warnings for this reaction are printed directly on the product packaging inserts, because they actually happen and are therefore required by law. Doctor Rand Paul does not now, nor has he ever linked vaccines to autism.

[GunnyFreedom]

My nephew developed encephalitis immediately after receiving the DTAP vaccine. The diagnosis came from the head of pediatrics at one of the top hospitals in my city. My nephew is also autistic. No one can say for certain whether the encephalitis is what caused his autism but there's no doubt what caused the encephalitis. Looking very quickly, you'll find that brain swelling can cause a host of permanent neurological issues one of which is mental retardation.

Encephalitis is a well known and well documented side effect that affects a very small minority of recipients.

[LibertárioBR]

Bullshit!

Huge Meta-Study Of Vaccines Reveals No Link To Autism
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/huge-meta-study-vaccines-reveals-no-link-autism

[Working Poor]

It would be impossible to explain why vaccines don't work and the dangers of them in this forum.
I would like to recommend, among several books with serious scientific discussions on this subject, Tim O'Shea's book "Vaccination is not Immunization", where he discusses each and every vaccine. I believe it should be a must read for every parent.

I have not read this book but I am looking for something, anything that will make people think. I am a poster at some pretty heavy duty liberal sites who all think vaccines are better than anything to prevent and control disease outbreaks. I already know that they would call this guy a quack because he is a chiropractor. Do you have anything that a smart assed liberal could not refute? Thank you in advance. I have posted several of the articles here that are are questioning vaccines and am getting torn to shreds by all the people who claim to be health care professionals. Or if you don't mind registering come over and do some battle with me here (http://lisafrequency.newsvine.com/_news/2015/01/30/29067624-the-truth-about-measles-the-mainstream-media-is-suppressing?lite#threadId4286896-lastNewId87031205)

[Ronin Truth]

They need to develop the next generation of voters somehow.

[freejack]

Bullshit!

Huge Meta-Study Of Vaccines Reveals No Link To Autism
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/huge-meta-study-vaccines-reveals-no-link-autism

These kind of articles really irk me. Like GunnyFreedom pointed out, vaccines can and do cause encephalitis in rare cases as it did with my nephew. Encephalitis can cause brain damage. How can anyone claim with certainty that vaccines never cause autism? I understand the social ramifications of associating vaccines with autism but the truth is, there IS a link.

I bet most people are unaware that pharmaceuticals are settling with parents of children hurt by vaccines under the condition that they never speak of the settlement with anyone. My nephew's pediatrician had another patient that fought a long battle with a vaccine maker which eventually led to such a settlement. This is just one out of probably hundreds of cases across the country that people will never hear about. Vaccines are dangerous to some children. The drug makers know it. Some enlightened doctors know it. But the truth will continue to be suppressed by money.

[AuH20]

Boom goes the dynamite! Rand Paul must be a wackjob for his outlandish comments.


http://sharylattkisson.com/audio-cdc-addresses-allegations-on-vaccine-autism-link-omission/


CDC Senior Scientist William Thompson has alleged that a 2004 study he co-authored omitted key data that would have revealed a link between autism and a commonly-required childhood vaccine, MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella).

“I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism,” said Thompson in a statement issued through his attorney Wednesday.

Dr. Frank DeStefano, CDC
Dr. Frank DeStefano, CDC
The CDC and Thompson’s co-author Dr. Frank DeStefano, CDC Director of Immunization Safety, defend the study as originally published.

At issue are steps the researchers allegedly took when they discovered a statistically significant link between MMR vaccine and autism among African American boys. They “refined” the analysis by excluding study children for which a Georgia birth certificate could not be produced, and used birth certificate data to “adjust” the results. When they did so, the strong statistical association diminished.

In a statement, Thompson implies his CDC employer and colleagues have not always been forthright with the public about vaccine safety issues. But DeStefano argues their final analysis produced more valid results.

Falsifying data? Say it ain't so, Jonas Salk!

[bocelli]

I have not read this book but I am looking for something, anything that will make people think. I am a poster at some pretty heavy duty liberal sites who all think vaccines are better than anything to prevent and control disease outbreaks. I already know that they would call this guy a quack because he is a chiropractor. Do you have anything that a smart assed liberal could not refute? Thank you in advance. I have posted several of the articles here that are are questioning vaccines and am getting torn to shreds by all the people who claim to be health care professionals. Or if you don't mind registering come over and do some battle with me here (http://lisafrequency.newsvine.com/_news/2015/01/30/29067624-the-truth-about-measles-the-mainstream-media-is-suppressing?lite#threadId4286896-lastNewId87031205)

Hello, Working Poor (I don't like that user name, why not "Lazy Rich"? LOL!).
That is really the best book. Dr. O'Shea has made it a religion to respect the scientific method, and his research is by far the most solid and honest. That is why he is so passionate about this subject; he has studied it thoroughly and he has uncovered a truth that most of the professional world -mainly MDs- has a hard time accepting due to years and years of brain washing (and to a large extent, money in their pockets as well). Having said this, I have known many MDs who know the truth about vaccines but will not reveal it to their patients because they are afraid to be sued.
If someone will dismiss Dr. O'Shea because he is a chiropractor, then you are having a debate with the wrong person. Whoever does that will not examine the issue with intellectual honesty, they will call Dr. O'Shea -or you- names and will never, ever study his scientific conclusions.
If I may suggest something to you -which I have learned after passionately trying to make people see some issues-, provide the information and your sources one time. If a person is intellectually honest, they will examine the evidence with open eyes and one time will suffice; most people will not do it.
I would gladly join the discussion you are proposing, but as I mentioned, there has been so much bullying and brain washing with this issue, that in my case, at least, I have lost the willingness to insist. Good luck!

[presence]

Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness

Permanent brain damage
Permanent brain damage
Permanent brain damage
Permanent brain damage
Permanent brain damage
Permanent brain damage

[Antischism]

He made an idiotic statement that he's backing down from now. Here's his "clarification," if you will:

"I did not say vaccines caused disorders, just that they were temporally related -- I did not allege causation," Paul said. "I support vaccines, I receive them myself and I had all of my children vaccinated."

[freejack]

He made an idiotic statement that he's backing down from now. Here's his "clarification," if you will:

"I did not say vaccines caused disorders, just that they were temporally related -- I did not allege causation," Paul said. "I support vaccines, I receive them myself and I had all of my children vaccinated."

His initial statement was correct. How he's revising it now is idiotic.

[jjdoyle]

He made an idiotic statement that he's backing down from now. Here's his "clarification," if you will:

"I did not say vaccines caused disorders, just that they were temporally related -- I did not allege causation," Paul said. "I support vaccines, I receive them myself and I had all of my children vaccinated."

Wait. He said what you quoted in a clarification? Is there a link to it?

[rich34]

This is a massive organized hit piece. But for what? I mean why is this even an issue and who decides? Surely Rand not wearing a suit and tie didn't piss off those donors that bad right? Of course not, must of been some internal poll or something that shows Paul doing extremely well so it was time for a torpedo to make sure he don't get to big of a lead. Besides, they also have to make him look kooky since they've done did that to his father. I'm saying it now, this election cycle they are going to try and blow up anyone that attempts to have an intelligent debate on issues. Why? Because Jeb can't be made to look to stupid.. Besides, after everyone is scared to death to talk about any idea they have, team Bush is going to tell you along with the MSM that all you need to know about Jeb is "INTEGRITY."

That word helped elect his brother and they're going to try and repeat history. I know this is about as dumbed down as George trying to tell jokes, but well it is what it is. Now why they're choosing to attack Rand now I have no idea, but sure makes you wonder. When you put all these hit pieces together it was a coordinated effort. If I remember correctly Christie got asked about this on Sunday, probably to give the excuse to ask Rand on Monday. Christie gave essentially the same response as Rand, but now Rand is taking all the heat. Oh, just where the hell is Bush in all this??

Oh, he once thought about being nfl commissioner.... Bet ya'll didn't no that shit did ya! Don't matter if it's true or not, Jeb an the media just said so, suck it....

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/jeb-bXXh-nfl-commissioner-114920.html

Damn I'm going to so hate this election cycle. Not only will you here that Jeb has more integrity than everyone else on the planet combined (with the exception of his brother of course) but their going to try and dumb down this cycle to where the most ignorant and stupid issues, are MAJOR. And guess what, Jeb will have not only the word integrity patented for only his use, but he'll be the only candidate that has the solutions to these ridiculous issues.. Get ready cause this kind of campaign is coming and the media is going to help em..

[Antischism]

Encephalitis is a well known and well documented side effect that affects a very small minority of recipients.

You should read this (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20447868).


Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Pertussis vaccination has been alleged to cause an encephalopathy that involves seizures and subsequent intellectual disability. In a previous retrospective study, 11 of 14 patients with so-called vaccine encephalopathy had Dravet syndrome that was associated with de-novo mutations of the sodium channel gene SCN1A. In this study, we aimed to establish whether the apparent association of Dravet syndrome with vaccination was caused by recall bias and, if not, whether vaccination affected the onset or outcome of the disorder.

METHODS:
We retrospectively studied patients with Dravet syndrome who had mutations in SCN1A, whose first seizure was a convulsion, and for whom validated source data were available. We analysed medical and vaccination records to investigate whether there was an association between vaccination and onset of seizures in these patients. Patients were separated into two groups according to whether seizure onset occurred shortly after vaccination (vaccination-proximate group) or not (vaccination-distant group). We compared clinical features, intellectual outcome, and type of SCN1A mutation between the groups.

FINDINGS:
Dates of vaccination and seizure onset were available from source records for 40 patients. We identified a peak in the number of patients who had seizure onset within 2 days after vaccination. Thus, patients who had seizure onset on the day of or the day after vaccination (n=12) were included in the vaccination-proximate group and those who had seizure onset 2 days or more after vaccination (n=25) or before vaccination (n=3) were included in the vaccination-distant group. Mean age at seizure onset was 18.4 weeks (SD 5.9) in the vaccination-proximate group and 26.2 weeks (8.1) in the vaccination-distant group (difference 7.8 weeks, 95% CI 2.6-13.1; p=0.004). There were no differences in intellectual outcome, subsequent seizure type, or mutation type between the two groups (all p values >0.3). Furthermore, in a post-hoc analysis, intellectual outcome did not differ between patients who received vaccinations after seizure onset and those who did not.

INTERPRETATION:
Vaccination might trigger earlier onset of Dravet syndrome in children who, because of an SCN1A mutation, are destined to develop the disease. However, vaccination should not be withheld from children with SCN1A mutations because we found no evidence that vaccinations before or after disease onset affect outcome.

[Antischism]

Wait. He said what you quoted in a clarification? Is there a link to it?

Yeah, here's a link (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/paul-i-did-not-allege-causation-between-vaccines-disorders-n299641).


A day after he spoke about healthy children "who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," Sen. Rand Paul issued a statement clarifying that he supports vaccines and that he "did not allege causation" between vaccinations and disorders.

"I did not say vaccines caused disorders, just that they were temporally related -- I did not allege causation," Paul said. "I support vaccines, I receive them myself and I had all of my children vaccinated."

The Kentucky Republican, who is mulling a 2016 presidential bid, said that he received a booster shot on Tuesday for vaccinations he got for a trip to Guatemala last year.

[PaulConventionWV]

It would be funny how people get into a big witch hunt over vaccines if it wasn't so damn depressing. It just goes to show you how brainwashed people are. We have to go around accusing people of impure thoughts regarding vaccines. If you're not gung ho about them, then pack your bags and get outta town, you commie bastard. The mania over whether you believe in something that is inherently a personal choice is truly nauseating. And yes, I'm talking to all the pro-vaxxers here who think it's perfectly acceptable to tell me what I should put into my children's bodies.

[rich34]

His initial statement was correct. How he's revising it now is idiotic.

EXACTLY!!

Rand has fell into their trap! Why the hell is this even an issue? He said he vaccinated his children, period!! By him going back to it now and changing anything he said regardless of what he said will be portrayed his flip flopping and automatically in the wrong for whatever he said. Rand needs to deal with this the same way George Bush dealt with doing drugs, well not using the phrase he used, but simply moving on. "Look I said I made some mistakes, next question." Rand don't even need to fall for their mudslinging bs tactic. Where the hell are the other candidates why are they getting asked for their position on this issue which is A STATE ISSUE?

Even though Rand vaccinated his own children even spoke well of them, they are killing him over this. By the time their done, they going to make people think Rand don't believe in vaccines and if it's up to him he'll pass a law preventing anyone from getting a vaccine... And oh yeah in other news......

Genius/And Highly Popular Jeb Bush, explains why he turned down the NFL commissioner job...

Back in May 2006, Bush told reporters that he had met with Florida businessman Patrick Rooney Sr., the brother of Pittsburgh Steelers owner Dan Rooney.

Rooney was co-chairman of the search committee to replace Paul Tagliabue, who had led the NFL for 17 years. Bush said then that he was not entertaining any discussion about what he’d do after he left office.

“I was encouraged to consider it,” he said Wednesday. “There were owners that asked me about it, and it was nine months prior to ending my tenure as governor. And to be honest with you … I could never have imagined abandoning that job.”

“It took me about 10 minutes after the flattery of a couple of calls from owners to realize that this is just not possible,” he added. “So I finished strong as governor, as strong as I could.”


Shawn Hannity, what do you think about that? Wow, it really shows just how much INTEGRITY Jeb has when he could have simply left his position as governor, but he choose to finish out his term of public duty. There's really no candidate in the field Bill O that matches the integrity that Bush brings to the table, I agree 100% Shawn and that's why he'll be the next president.

Laying the groundwork folks, fuck the fact that no owner was even mentioned so who knows if this even true. We only have the brother of an owner, supposedly asking Jeb if he was interested.. I call bullshit and expect a whole lot more of BS stories like this coming from Jeb/msm incorporated. Always notice it'll be stories that have nothing to do with policies, but made up bull shit designed to cover up a shady past. By then when the real mud comes out about Jeb, shit.... WHAAAT, Jeb is a good man, he couldn't have possibly done that, have you seen his INTEGRITY ranking!! Why nobody is close sonny boy....

Christ help us....

[rich34]

Now some of ya'll are falling for their bs, but even arguing the point. Sure we can all do our own independent research on vaccines and see for ourselves, but they're just going to use it to brand Paul supporters as "conspiracy" nuts!!

Oh, shit, as a collective whole there is no way to stop this. And all it takes is for one Paul supporter to be against vaccines, it'll be written "All Paul supporters against vaccines, and are domestic terrorist"


Meanwhile, Jeb Bush just turned down the position for DEAN of the university of Harvard and Yale... Said, their integrity meter is not high enough...

[Antischism]

It would be funny how people get into a big witch hunt over vaccines if it wasn't so damn depressing. It just goes to show you how brainwashed people are. We have to go around accusing people of impure thoughts regarding vaccines. If you're not gung ho about them, then pack your bags and get outta town, you commie bastard. The mania over whether you believe in something that is inherently a personal choice is truly nauseating. And yes, I'm talking to all the pro-vaxxers here who think it's perfectly acceptable to tell me what I should put into my children's bodies.

Have you considered Walter Block's position (http://archive.lewrockwell.com/block/block217.html)?

[GunnyFreedom]

Have you considered Walter Block's position (http://archive.lewrockwell.com/block/block217.html)?

Although a Typhoid vaccine exists, it was never widely used in the United States. The Typhoid Mary example is therefore completely irrelevant to the vaccination argument. This derogates his entire novella within the first paragraph. It is true enough that Typhoid Mary had to be stopped, and she herself had the choice of quarantine or having her gallbladder removed to put an end to her carrying the disease. She chose instead to go into hiding and continue to cook food for people knowing that she was infecting them. Block was dead wrong claiming she had no mens rea. Why did she keep disappearing the minute she infected one family only to change her name move locations, and proceed to infect another family, wash rinse repeat?

As an extreme minarchist, I'd have no problem quarantining Mary Mellon and if she seriously refused to be cured, when her cure was well known, then keeping her quarantined indefinitely.

The people that Block wants to strap to a table at gunpoint and poke with needles against their will, are not shedding virus.

You can agree that Mary Mellon should have been quarantined without thinking people need to be strapped to a table at gunpoint and injected with virii.

Yet another in a long long list of nonsense for which Block should not be taken seriously.

[presence]

strapped to a table at gunpoint and injected with virii
strapped to a table at gunpoint and injected with virii
strapped to a table at gunpoint and injected with virii
strapped to a table at gunpoint and injected with virii
strapped to a table at gunpoint and injected with virii
strapped to a table at gunpoint and injected with virii
strapped to a table at gunpoint and injected with virii

[Antischism]

Although a Typhoid vaccine exists, it was never widely used in the United States. The Typhoid Mary example is therefore completely irrelevant to the vaccination argument. This derogates his entire novella within the first paragraph. It is true enough that Typhoid Mary had to be stopped, and she herself had the choice of quarantine or having her gallbladder removed to put an end to her carrying the disease. She chose instead to go into hiding and continue to cook food for people knowing that she was infecting them. Block was dead wrong claiming she had no mens rea. Why did she keep disappearing the minute she infected one family only to change her name move locations, and proceed to infect another family, wash rinse repeat?

As an extreme minarchist, I'd have no problem quarantining Mary Mellon and if she seriously refused to be cured, when her cure was well known, then keeping her quarantined indefinitely.

The people that Block wants to strap to a table at gunpoint and poke with needles against their will, are not shedding virus.

You can agree that Mary Mellon should have been quarantined without thinking people need to be strapped to a table at gunpoint and injected with virii.

Yet another in a long long list of nonsense for which Block should not be taken seriously.

Vaccines are only effective when taken before a virus is able to take hold and break through pockets of people if herd immunity is compromised as a result of a refusal to vaccinate. A vaccine is useless once an individual is affected by it since it's a preventative, not a cure. What's unfortunate is it would take a resurgence in Measles and Polio deaths for people to get serious about vaccines again. Many of the people who are staunchly against them have the luxury of living in an era where thanks to vaccinations, we've come close to eradicating most of these things. Instead of worrying about the actual viruses and seeing their family members die, they can instead latch onto pseudo-scientific articles and claims. There's zero reason to decline taking any of the important vaccines we have available to us right now. What do you think would occur if enough people took an apathetic stance or completely refused vaccines? Quite frankly, those who refuse to vaccinate, as I previously mentioned, only have that luxury because of others who know the importance of it.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/matthewherper/files/2013/03/c6fb5feb7f1ee71b7e725277d30999161.jpg

[Antischism]

I feel like one of the biggest issues for some libertarians is who's actually doing the mandating on vaccines. In a world where we have privatized medicine/insurance companies, schools, etc., I can't imagine these places not mandating vaccination. Regardless, making unfounded claims that vaccines are dangerous goes against the science.

[rich34]

I feel like one of the biggest issues for some libertarians is who's actually doing the mandating on vaccines. In a world where we have privatized medicine/insurance companies, schools, etc., I can't imagine these places not mandating vaccination. Regardless, making unfounded claims that vaccines are dangerous goes against the science.

Wow didn't wanna do this but you are aware of the swine flu vaccine back in the late 70's? Killed more people than the virus... That alone should be enough for free choice.

Besides, currently the vaccine laws are mostly made by the states. And even at that there only mandatory upon entering public schools. That's it end of discussion. I won't tell you to get or not get I ask the same in return.

[jjdoyle]

Yeah, here's a link (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/paul-i-did-not-allege-causation-between-vaccines-disorders-n299641).

Thank you! I was hoping it was out of context, and incorrect... Mitt Romney 2.0. John Kerry 2.0. This is getting ridiculous though.

And it wasn't an unfounded claim to say that vaccines are dangerous to some people, as people have listed some vaccine side effects in this thread and others, and I know a family that has a little boy that was "normal" with development, making typical baby noises, etc. Then after a set of vaccines, went into an autistic type state.

Rand Paul COULD have used it as an opportunity for the PARENTS of those type of children to speak about it, and the positives and negatives. And talk about the DELAYED vaccination program that he mentioned in the interview that many (MOST, I would guess) parents aren't even aware of.

[jjdoyle]

Wow didn't wanna do this but you are aware of the swine flu vaccine back in the late 70's? Killed more people than the virus... That alone should be enough for free choice.

Besides, currently the vaccine laws are mostly made by the states. And even at that there only mandatory upon entering public schools. That's it end of discussion. I won't tell you to get or not get I ask the same in return.

I think I've mentioned the Swine Flue Vaccine before in random posts, but what would have BEEN an extended family member at this point, was killed by the vaccine in the 70s.

[presence]

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/matthewherper/files/2013/03/c6fb5feb7f1ee71b7e725277d30999161.jpg


lol that hepatitis A statistic is a complete joke. In no way is it possible there has been 91% reduction in mobidity due to people taking hepatitis A vaccines.

There's 91% reduction in morbidity because of dialysis that didn't even exist until after WWII.

30% of American's have Hepatitis A, it causes them no harm, and they have lifetime immunity that the vaccine couldn't even give.

http://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-diseases/Hepatitis-A.aspx

[CPUd]

Wait till Hepatitis C hits in about a decade.

[bocelli]

Vaccines are only effective when taken before a virus is able to take hold and break through pockets of people if herd immunity is compromised as a result of a refusal to vaccinate. A vaccine is useless once an individual is affected by it since it's a preventative, not a cure. What's unfortunate is it would take a resurgence in Measles and Polio deaths for people to get serious about vaccines again. Many of the people who are staunchly against them have the luxury of living in an era where thanks to vaccinations, we've come close to eradicating most of these things. Instead of worrying about the actual viruses and seeing their family members die, they can instead latch onto pseudo-scientific articles and claims. There's zero reason to decline taking any of the important vaccines we have available to us right now. What do you think would occur if enough people took an apathetic stance or completely refused vaccines? Quite frankly, those who refuse to vaccinate, as I previously mentioned, only have that luxury because of others who know the importance of it.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/matthewherper/files/2013/03/c6fb5feb7f1ee71b7e725277d30999161.jpg

Sorry, this graph is not evidence of anything. Once again, as with any other medical intervention, if you want to know if it is effective, measure 2 populations WITH THE SAME DEMOGRAPHICS AND DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME, one that has been vaccinated and the other that hasn't, and compare how many individuals of each group contracted the illness that the vaccine is supposed to protect you from.

[Antischism]

Wow didn't wanna do this but you are aware of the swine flu vaccine back in the late 70's? Killed more people than the virus... That alone should be enough for free choice.

Besides, currently the vaccine laws are mostly made by the states. And even at that there only mandatory upon entering public schools. That's it end of discussion. I won't tell you to get or not get I ask the same in return.

Sources for this are pretty dubious. The only concrete info I can find is that of the 45 million people vaccinated in 1976, around four hundred and fifty developed the rare Guillain-Barré syndrome (indeed, there appears to have been a causal relationship between that particular vaccination and Guillain-Barré, though the exact reason is unknown). In the case of an actual pandemic or epidemic, this incredibly small amount of instances would have been heavily outweighed by the number of cases of H1N1 it would have protected against. One must note that this vaccine was rushed and the initiative was mostly a result of Gerald Ford's political game (The WHO was actually in favor of a wait and see approach). I don't think it's illogical to be wary of a brand new, rushed vaccine being pushed without much scientific backing in a seemingly political move. The 1976 cases had strikingly similar characteristics to 1918's flu pandemic, which was what caused so much alarm but also a lesson in relying on science and study before jumping to conclusions. Ultimately, comparing that to what we know about the vaccines being administered today is pretty disingenuous because the science is already settled on it with overwhelming data.

[GunnyFreedom]

Nick Gillespie over at Irrational just picked an infection of the stupid. He's repeating the "Rand Paul thinks vaccines cause autism" BS started by NBC and Megyn Kelly.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/02/04/is-rand-paul-an-anti-vaccine-nut-job

[rich34]

I feel like one of the biggest issues for some libertarians is who's actually doing the mandating on vaccines. In a world where we have privatized medicine/insurance companies, schools, etc., I can't imagine these places not mandating vaccination. Regardless, making unfounded claims that vaccines are dangerous goes against the science.


Vaccines are only effective when taken before a virus is able to take hold and break through pockets of people if herd immunity is compromised as a result of a refusal to vaccinate. A vaccine is useless once an individual is affected by it since it's a preventative, not a cure. What's unfortunate is it would take a resurgence in Measles and Polio deaths for people to get serious about vaccines again. Many of the people who are staunchly against them have the luxury of living in an era where thanks to vaccinations, we've come close to eradicating most of these things. Instead of worrying about the actual viruses and seeing their family members die, they can instead latch onto pseudo-scientific articles and claims. There's zero reason to decline taking any of the important vaccines we have available to us right now. What do you think would occur if enough people took an apathetic stance or completely refused vaccines? Quite frankly, those who refuse to vaccinate, as I previously mentioned, only have that luxury because of others who know the importance of it.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/matthewherper/files/2013/03/c6fb5feb7f1ee71b7e725277d30999161.jpg

Since you like charts have you seen the one comparing the decline of childhood illnesses between vaccines and going from the outhouse to having a bathroom in America? Or in other words sanitation. Evidence has actually been shown that the decline in childhood illneses had just as much or more to do with better sanitation. Polio for instance was already on the decline before the vaccination came out. What's also interesting is after the vaccination was introduced there was no increase in the rate of decline compared to previous years. So if there was increase in the decline rate then just how effective was it?

Of course i ain't saying don't take em but at the same time the state shouldn't mandate it..

[Antischism]

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/matthewherper/files/2013/03/c6fb5feb7f1ee71b7e725277d30999161.jpg


lol that hepatitis A statistic is a complete joke. In no way is it possible there has been 91% reduction in mobidity due to people taking hepatitis A vaccines.

There's 91% reduction in morbidity because of dialysis that didn't even exist until after WWII.

30% of American's have Hepatitis A, it causes them no harm, and they have lifetime immunity that the vaccine couldn't even give.

http://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-diseases/Hepatitis-A.aspx

Is that your only objection to the data?


Sorry, this graph is not evidence of anything. Once again, as with any other medical intervention, if you want to know if it is effective, measure 2 populations WITH THE SAME DEMOGRAPHICS AND DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME, one that has been vaccinated and the other that hasn't, and compare how many individuals of each group contracted the illness that the vaccine is supposed to protect you from.

So you're ignoring the scientific evidence that these vaccines have indeed been effective in nearly eradicating a variety of afflictions? That's a really bold position to take.

[Antischism]

Nick Gillespie over at Irrational just picked an infection of the stupid. He's repeating the "Rand Paul thinks vaccines cause autism" BS started by NBC and Megyn Kelly.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/02/04/is-rand-paul-an-anti-vaccine-nut-job

Well, when you make a statement like, "I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," along with championing parental choice, it's not out of the question for people to conclude he was making the case that there's a causal relationship between vaccinations and the nebulous term he chose to use when he said "mental disorders." He then walked back on that and stated he thinks vaccines are safe and vaccinates his own children. Why not just make the "clarified" statement in the first place?

[Antischism]

Since you like charts have you seen the one comparing the decline of childhood illnesses between vaccines and going from the outhouse to having a bathroom in America? Or in other words sanitation. Evidence has actually been shown that the decline in childhood illneses had just as much or more to do with better sanitation. Polio for instance was already on the decline before the vaccination came out. What's also interesting is after the vaccination was introduced there was no increase in the rate of decline compared to previous years. So if there was increase in the decline rate then just how effective was it?

Of course i ain't saying don't take em but at the same time the state shouldn't mandate it..

Can you substantiate that theory? I've seen what you're talking about before, but it was based on misinformation/bad chronology. For example (http://www.virologyj.com/content/pdf/1743-422X-4-70.pdf), in regards to Polio and sanitation:


Prior to the 20th century, virtually all children were infected with PV while still protected by maternal antibodies. In the 1900s, following the industrial revolution of the late 18th and early 19th centuries, improved sanitation practices led to an increase in the age at which children first encountered the virus, such that at exposure children were no longer protected by maternal antibodies. Consequently, epidemics of poliomyelitis surfaced . [2]

Ironically, the advanced state of public hygiene in the U.S. and the rest of the developed world contributed to the polio epidemics of the 20th century. Polio is primarily a disease of infants and children. Before public hygiene developments, infants and young children became exposed to poliovirus, but their symptoms were mild and the exposure provided lasting immunity. With the advent of indoor plumbing and modern ideas about hygiene and sanitation, children were not exposed to the poliovirus in infancy and did not develop natural immunity. As a result, outbreaks of polio began to be seen in the mid-1800s. [3]

You can read more about the issue here (http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2010/07/01/polio-and-sanitation/).

[GunnyFreedom]

563196668972380160

[GunnyFreedom]

Well, when you make a statement like, "I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," along with championing parental choice, it's not out of the question for people to conclude he was making the case that there's a causal relationship between vaccinations and the nebulous term he chose to use when he said "mental disorders." He then walked back on that and stated he thinks vaccines are safe and vaccinates his own children. Why not just make the "clarified" statement in the first place?

One can 'conclude' that the moon is made of green cheese too. Doesn't make it true.

Also, Rand was 100% factually correct. Encephalitis and encephalopathy are well known and well documented vaccine side effects.

[Antischism]

One can 'conclude' that the moon is made of green cheese too. Doesn't make it true.

Also, Rand was 100% factually correct. Encephalitis and encephalopathy are well known and well documented vaccine side effects.

You didn't read what I linked you to earlier, perhaps. So I'll do it again:


Encephalitis is a well known and well documented side effect that affects a very small minority of recipients.

You should read this (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20447868).


Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Pertussis vaccination has been alleged to cause an encephalopathy that involves seizures and subsequent intellectual disability. In a previous retrospective study, 11 of 14 patients with so-called vaccine encephalopathy had Dravet syndrome that was associated with de-novo mutations of the sodium channel gene SCN1A. In this study, we aimed to establish whether the apparent association of Dravet syndrome with vaccination was caused by recall bias and, if not, whether vaccination affected the onset or outcome of the disorder.

METHODS:
We retrospectively studied patients with Dravet syndrome who had mutations in SCN1A, whose first seizure was a convulsion, and for whom validated source data were available. We analysed medical and vaccination records to investigate whether there was an association between vaccination and onset of seizures in these patients. Patients were separated into two groups according to whether seizure onset occurred shortly after vaccination (vaccination-proximate group) or not (vaccination-distant group). We compared clinical features, intellectual outcome, and type of SCN1A mutation between the groups.

FINDINGS:
Dates of vaccination and seizure onset were available from source records for 40 patients. We identified a peak in the number of patients who had seizure onset within 2 days after vaccination. Thus, patients who had seizure onset on the day of or the day after vaccination (n=12) were included in the vaccination-proximate group and those who had seizure onset 2 days or more after vaccination (n=25) or before vaccination (n=3) were included in the vaccination-distant group. Mean age at seizure onset was 18.4 weeks (SD 5.9) in the vaccination-proximate group and 26.2 weeks (8.1) in the vaccination-distant group (difference 7.8 weeks, 95% CI 2.6-13.1; p=0.004). There were no differences in intellectual outcome, subsequent seizure type, or mutation type between the two groups (all p values >0.3). Furthermore, in a post-hoc analysis, intellectual outcome did not differ between patients who received vaccinations after seizure onset and those who did not.

INTERPRETATION:
Vaccination might trigger earlier onset of Dravet syndrome in children who, because of an SCN1A mutation, are destined to develop the disease. However, vaccination should not be withheld from children with SCN1A mutations because we found no evidence that vaccinations before or after disease onset affect outcome.

If you're saying it's 100% fact that there's a causal relationship between vaccines and encephalopathy, I'd like to see the science on it because the data available, at best, indicates a mere trigger for an early onset.

[GunnyFreedom]

You didn't read what I linked you to earlier, perhaps. So I'll do it again:



You should read this (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20447868).



If you're saying it's 100% fact that there's a causal relationship between vaccines and encephalopathy, I'd like to see the science on it because the data available, at best, indicates a mere trigger for an early onset.

Oh great, you just 'proved' that vaccines don't ever cause encephalitis, by citing a source claiming that "seizure clusters are going to happen anyway."

http://reho.st/http://www.quickmeme.com/img/7e/7ea0f7df0302302ad4b6ae9506d4f128d47577b4ad9c120148 356728523f73f4.jpg

[presence]

Is that your only objection to the data?

Certainly not. Are you going to tell me the 99% reduction in deaths from influenza and 83% reduction in Hepatitis B deaths were also due to vaccinations?

If so I'll continue to lol.


While I'm at it... here's your miracle vaccine cure at work on diphtheria:

http://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/us-uk-diphtheria-1901-1965.gif


The vaccine wasn't in widespread use until the mid 1940's.

Clearly it saved the day. Look at all those horrible deaths before the vaccine was invented in 1943... then slam... all of a suddend the diphtheria rate fell off a cliff.

not

lol

[GunnyFreedom]

Certainly not. Are you going to tell me the 99% reduction in deaths from influenza and 83% reduction in Hepatitis B deaths were also due to vaccinations?

If so I'll continue to lol.

The same people whining "Correlation does not imply causation" sure do love to ride that fallacy when it helps them, eh?

[presence]

The same people whining "Correlation does not imply causation" sure do love to ride that fallacy when it helps them, eh?

Its a complete farce for anyone to even begin to imply that flu vaccines have caused a 99% decrease in flu related deaths.

The reason people don't die of crazy diseases anymore isn't vaccines its palliative care, sanitary water, adequate housing, and diet... the same reason ebola is destroying africa but quite managable in 1st world countries.

[rich34]

Certainly not. Are you going to tell me the 99% reduction in deaths from influenza and 83% reduction in Hepatitis B deaths were also due to vaccinations?

If so I'll continue to lol.


While I'm at it... here's your miracle vaccine cure at work on diphtheria:

http://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/us-uk-diphtheria-1901-1965.gif


The vaccine wasn't in widespread use until the mid 1940's.

Clearly it saved the day. Look at all those horrible deaths before the vaccine was invented in 1943... then slam... all of a suddend the diphtheria rate fell off a cliff.

not

lol

Honestly, that was the same rate of decline as all childhood diseases before vaccines were in use...

And don't forget how well the measles vaccine worked in 1985, 87 school kids came down with it ALL vaccsinated. Considering how great it worked here surely you can't say all the data on all the different diseases were wrong?? All my fault they do actually wtf am i thinking??

[Bergie Bergeron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMBFWOwQhpg

[rich34]

Hell, anyone ever wonder why they can't make a vaccine for a real killer virus?? I know I've heard many excuses, but now really? Could it be they don't work quite as well as advertised? Of course not..

[rich34]

Sources for this are pretty dubious. The only concrete info I can find is that of the 45 million people vaccinated in 1976, around four hundred and fifty developed the rare Guillain-Barré syndrome (indeed, there appears to have been a causal relationship between that particular vaccination and Guillain-Barré, though the exact reason is unknown). In the case of an actual pandemic or epidemic, this incredibly small amount of instances would have been heavily outweighed by the number of cases of H1N1 it would have protected against. One must note that this vaccine was rushed and the initiative was mostly a result of Gerald Ford's political game (The WHO was actually in favor of a wait and see approach). I don't think it's illogical to be wary of a brand new, rushed vaccine being pushed without much scientific backing in a seemingly political move. The 1976 cases had strikingly similar characteristics to 1918's flu pandemic, which was what caused so much alarm but also a lesson in relying on science and study before jumping to conclusions. Ultimately, comparing that to what we know about the vaccines being administered today is pretty disingenuous because the science is already settled on it with overwhelming data.


Says who in regard to any of the shit you said?? Fact is the vaccine killed more people than that flu did. Another fact is untold thousands of people suffered from neurological issues some for the rest of their life.

And aside from that particular vaccine just how proven are they to even work?? What about Texas in 85? 87 get infected with the measles yet all were vaccinated? Actually it happens all the time, but that was essentially the largest with all being vaccinated. Honestly when looking at vaccines objectively the childhood viruses were already on the decline before vaccines were given which should force one to look at better sanitation, hospitals, medicine etc.. rather than say whelp yeah boy them vaccines wiped out all them viruses. BS, that's why these viruses still flourish in countries like Africa because of poor hygiene.. All it's because they don't get vaccines?? I don't buy that.

And the fact is I don't for absolute fact believe anyone is fighting to take away your right to get vaccinated, but your talking points are suggesting you'd be quite fine with the opposite forcing them on everyone else.

[LibertárioBR]

https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10342751_1029752053712472_2845597094239698528_n.jp g?oh=91d6376642ca273416340c28295510f8&oe=55506C45

[DamianTV]

If we have a "Right to get Vaccinated", should we also not have the same "Right to NOT be forcibly Vaccinated"?

[GunnyFreedom]

If we have a "Right to get Vaccinated", should we also not have the same "Right to NOT be forcibly Vaccinated"?

A lot of ancaps appear to have a fetish for strapping unwilling people to tables at gunpoint and jabbing them with needles. I would never have expected such a thing.

[jmdrake]

Boom goes the dynamite! Rand Paul must be a wackjob for his outlandish comments.


http://sharylattkisson.com/audio-cdc-addresses-allegations-on-vaccine-autism-link-omission/



Falsifying data? Say it ain't so, Jonas Salk!

Wow! And the group mostly affected was African American males? OMG!

[juleswin]

https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10342751_1029752053712472_2845597094239698528_n.jp g?oh=91d6376642ca273416340c28295510f8&oe=55506C45

Isn't it funny how a virus that had been eradicated in the US somehow shows up and the first people the authoritarians point fingers at are the so called anti vaxxers. How can these people re-create a virus out of thin air?

If anything point fingers at the tourists, travelers to areas with an outbreak and illegal immigrants who can come in at the moment without having to get any vaccinations done. But oh no, lets all bash on the tiny minority who are actually anti vaxxers.

[otherone]

It seems this subject causes retardation among people who get sucked into a debate about it if my forum experience is any indicator. :D

This goes here:

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608008292565060971&pid=15.1&P=0

[presence]

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608008292565060971&pid=15.1&P=0

lol

my aunt just competed in the 100m snow shoe competition. She forgot to button her snow pants and left her ski poles at the starting line... 50m in... pants around ankles... plop

[presence]

If not vaccines... What new inventions really are saving us from killer diseases?

http://www.betterlifestylesinc.com/images/pictures/toiletthreefifty.JPG

https://www.clorox.com/assets/Uploads/product-CLX-splashless-bleach.png

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/372659/file-640002369-jpg/blog-files/clear-ice-cubes-m.jpg


http://www.airphotona.com/stockimg/images/05040.jpg

http://healthinformatics.wikispaces.com/file/view/Dialysis.jpg/383450550/250x283/Dialysis.jpg


http://www.clinicalsolutionsme.com/WebpagePics/ACLSFinal.png

https://futiletreatment.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/article-0-01cfe92800000578-786_468x239.jpg


Imagine all that cool stuff that pretty much didn't exist in the "pre vaccine era"


http://pzrservices.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451ccbc69e20120a911f55f970b-pi



oh... and lets not forget:

http://www.4pab.com/resources/ambulance.jpg

[jmdrake]

You didn't read what I linked you to earlier, perhaps. So I'll do it again:



You should read this (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20447868).



If you're saying it's 100% fact that there's a causal relationship between vaccines and encephalopathy, I'd like to see the science on it because the data available, at best, indicates a mere trigger for an early onset.

So let me see if I understand you and the study you are quoting. That study found a link between vaccines and an early onset of certain types of seizures but since the children ultimately had the same IQ regardless of the early onset of seizures there's nothing wrong with early seizures? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

[juleswin]

If not vaccines... What new inventions really are saving us from killer diseases?

http://www.betterlifestylesinc.com/images/pictures/toiletthreefifty.JPG

https://www.clorox.com/assets/Uploads/product-CLX-splashless-bleach.png

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/372659/file-640002369-jpg/blog-files/clear-ice-cubes-m.jpg


http://www.airphotona.com/stockimg/images/05040.jpg

http://healthinformatics.wikispaces.com/file/view/Dialysis.jpg/383450550/250x283/Dialysis.jpg


http://www.clinicalsolutionsme.com/WebpagePics/ACLSFinal.png

https://futiletreatment.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/article-0-01cfe92800000578-786_468x239.jpg


Imagine all that cool stuff that pretty much didn't exist in the "pre vaccine era"


http://pzrservices.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451ccbc69e20120a911f55f970b-pi



oh... and lets not forget:

http://www.4pab.com/resources/ambulance.jpg

This and more. You know I see people like Bill Gates trying to imagine new ways of delivering vaccines to poor people in Africa when he would be doing them a mighty favor by providing them access to clean water and electricity. Even just the boost of immunity you would get from the stress relief knowing that you have those amenities would do more to improve health than any vaccine would do.

But fuck that, lets spend billions of dollars trying to invent drone vaccines (and yes they are working on that) to deliver vaccines to those poor malnourished people. And I would have mention that not many Africans are dying from malnutrition but the ones dying from diseases like mumps, measles, malaria etc etc are usually malnourished

[angelatc]

And don't forget how well the measles vaccine worked in 1985, 87 school kids came down with it ALL vaccsinated. Considering how great it worked here surely you can't say all the data on all the different diseases were wrong?? All my fault they do actually wtf am i thinking??

I have long ago determined that sane people can't possibly imagine wtf anti-vaxxers are thinking. It's prett clear that math and science aren't their strong suits. While you are technically correct, you forgot to mention that the measles vaccine protocols were changed as a direct result of the 1985 outbreak, in that a booster was added. So no more outbreaks.

As for causation vs correlation, one of the key indicators for me as a lay-person to tell the difference is the ability to make predictions based on previous evidence. With every single vaccine we are discussing, the science predicted that the rate of infections would drop like a stone when the vaccines were introduced. They did. They also predicted that if and when the vaccine rate fell below a certain percent of the population, we would start to see pockets of infections creeping back into our society. We are. Statistically it is only a matter of time before a child in America dies from a disease that is almost entirely preventable.

However, autism rates did not decline when therimosol was removed from vaccines. Nor did they fall in Japan when that country stepped away from the MMR in favor of 3 different shots.

[angelatc]

So let me see if I understand you and the study you are quoting. That study found a link between vaccines and an early onset of certain types of seizures but since the children ultimately had the same IQ regardless of the early onset of seizures there's nothing wrong with early seizures? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.


That's true. The grand mal seizures are scary but there is no long term damage.

[angelatc]

Since you like charts have you seen the one comparing the decline of childhood illnesses between vaccines and going from the outhouse to having a bathroom in America? Or in other words sanitation. Evidence has actually been shown that the decline in childhood illneses had just as much or more to do with better sanitation. Polio for instance was already on the decline before the vaccination came out. What's also interesting is after the vaccination was introduced there was no increase in the rate of decline compared to previous years. So if there was increase in the decline rate then just how effective was it?

Of course i ain't saying don't take em but at the same time the state shouldn't mandate it..


Why didn't these diseases all disappear at the same time then, instead of directing correlating with the introduction of the various vaccines? (And actually, polio got worse with indoor plumbing. Science is tricky!)

Polio is eradicated in India - what great advances in hygiene and plumbing have happened there in the past 10 years?

[presence]

Polio is eradicated in India

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/AFP.png




“Wild” poliovirus may be gone from vaccinated countries, but what was once called “polio,” and frightened the wits out of parents world-wide, is still ubiquitous.
The term “poliomyelitis” is a description of spinal pathology. The meaning of the word comes from Greek:
polios= gray, and muelos =marrow, itis=inflammation; meaning “inflammation of the gray matter of the spinal cord.”
All poliomyelitis means is that the gray matter of the spinal cord is inflamed. This can occur anywhere from the brainstem to the end of the spinal cord, and it has always had many causes, the least of which is a virus that lives in intestines of healthy people.
The result of this inflammation, whether chemical or viral, leads to certain characteristic muscular symptoms that have been conditioned into the minds of several generations of people to appear as the classic atrophied limbs, iron lungs and other horrifying images.
By definition and by historical documentation, these infamous images of polio should by no means be blamed solely on a specific wild-type (naturally occurring) virus. Environmental toxins, other infections, and laboratory-derived vaccine viruses were all implicated in paralytic polio over the years. Yet wild virus, even though it is said to be asymptomatic in 95% of infected, and only causes paralysis in a small amount of infected is the excuse for world-wide polio vaccination with live viruses that are known to cause their own outbreaks of polio in China, Nigeria and India.
- See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/06/11/cdc-and-friends-sprinting-towards-the-polio-finish-line-by-suzanne-humphries-md/#sthash.GZQxZgYb.dpuf





There was very little live polio to begin with. Most of it was other diseases yet unnamed. Yes, vaccine irradicated "wild polio" but as fast as "wild polio" was gone... it becomes clear that it wasn't the primary cause of "polio"

[juleswin]

Why didn't these diseases all disappear at the same time then, instead of directing correlating with the introduction of the various vaccines? (And actually, polio got worse with indoor plumbing. Science is tricky!)

Polio is eradicated in India - what great advances in hygiene and plumbing have happened there in the past 10 years?

Polio is a special case because in fact being a bit playful with your feces (feces to mouth) before the age of 2 will give you a life time immunity against it. But if you miss that opportunity and contract it anytime after that period, you end up with a life long disability.

So yes, apart from polio and maybe 1 or 2 other diseases I cannot think of, having good hygiene will proportionally improve your health

[otherone]

The FDA (http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/ucm253954.htm) sez:


Foodborne Illness Is Serious Business

When it comes to protecting yourself and your family from foodborne illness, one of your most effective tools is the kitchen refrigerator. In fact, at room temperature, the numbers of bacteria that cause foodborne sickness can double every 20 minutes! Chilling foods to proper temperatures is one of the best ways to slow the growth of these bacteria.

Foodborne diseases are far more serious than many people realize. The Federal government estimates that there are about 48 million cases of foodborne illness annually–the equivalent of sickening 1 in 6 Americans each year. And each year these illnesses result in an estimated 128,000 hospitalizations and 3,000 deaths.

Salmonella, for example, causes millions of cases of foodborne illness annually and is the leading cause of foodborne deaths.
E. coli O157:H7 is a bacterium that can produce a deadly toxin. Infections from E. coli O157:H7 are estimated to be between 20,000 and 40,000 cases per year.
The Clostridium botulinum bacterium produces a deadly toxin that causes botulism, a disease characterized by muscle paralysis.
Illnesses caused by Campylobacter, noroviruses, Shigella, and other organisms can create severe health problems, particularly for children, the elderly, and people with chronic illness or suppressed immune systems.




People who don't own refrigerators should be JAILED.

[presence]

People who don't own refrigerators should be JAILED.

That would be pretty much everyone in the "pre vaccine era"

[otherone]

That would be pretty much everyone in the "pre vaccine era"

ooh ooh..now I get to say "correlation does not imply causation"!

[LibertárioBR]

I don't understand why so many american libertarians like much conspiracies and pseudosciences...

I think, people who have internet and know english, they should be better informed.

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't understand why so many american libertarians like much conspiracies and pseudosciences...

I think, people who have internet and know english, they should be better informed.
They question authority. Whether or not they're right, I admire that about them. :)

[GunnyFreedom]

I don't understand why so many american libertarians like much conspiracies and pseudosciences...

I think, people who have internet and know english, they should be better informed.

Could it be that they have seen so much evil perpetrated by government in their lifetimes, that bizarre conspiracies actually begin to fall upon the likelier side of Occam's Razor?

[AuH20]

I don't understand why so many american libertarians like much conspiracies and pseudosciences...

I think, people who have internet and know english, they should be better informed.

because there is a trail of suppression and bold-faced lies.

[donnay]

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/AFP.png


There was very little live polio to begin with. Most of it was other diseases yet unnamed. Yes, vaccine irradicated "wild polio" but as fast as "wild polio" was gone... it becomes clear that it wasn't the primary cause of "polio"



Plus they keep changing the names. Acute flaccid paralysis (AFP) is the new name, instead of polio.


http://www.whale.to/v/afppolio78u.jpg
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/polio1.html

[LibertárioBR]

Could it be that they have seen so much evil perpetrated by government in their lifetimes, that bizarre conspiracies actually begin to fall upon the likelier side of Occam's Razor?

It's bizarre. The government is inefficient at all, but they can do the "9/11 inside job" and hide ets.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I think, people who have internet and know english, they should be better informed.


Yeah, the internet has made succeeding generations increasingly intelligenter.

[Working Poor]

Hello, Working Poor (I don't like that user name, why not "Lazy Rich"? LOL!).
That is really the best book. Dr. O'Shea has made it a religion to respect the scientific method, and his research is by far the most solid and honest. That is why he is so passionate about this subject; he has studied it thoroughly and he has uncovered a truth that most of the professional world -mainly MDs- has a hard time accepting due to years and years of brain washing (and to a large extent, money in their pockets as well). Having said this, I have known many MDs who know the truth about vaccines but will not reveal it to their patients because they are afraid to be sued.
If someone will dismiss Dr. O'Shea because he is a chiropractor, then you are having a debate with the wrong person. Whoever does that will not examine the issue with intellectual honesty, they will call Dr. O'Shea -or you- names and will never, ever study his scientific conclusions.
If I may suggest something to you -which I have learned after passionately trying to make people see some issues-, provide the information and your sources one time. If a person is intellectually honest, they will examine the evidence with open eyes and one time will suffice; most people will not do it.
I would gladly join the discussion you are proposing, but as I mentioned, there has been so much bullying and brain washing with this issue, that in my case, at least, I have lost the willingness to insist. Good luck!

I have 2 family members with autism that were perfectly "normal" developing just fine and after vaccines forever changed. Even as a child I thought vaccines were bad and it was a huge fight to get me to take them. I knew what the word consent meant and I wanted to make sure the doctors knew I was not consenting.

I have also worked with brain injured children. I actually started working with them in elementary school at my school and in the summer time during my public school years and then in a facility for severely mentally and physically challenged individuals. Even as a child I wondered if vaccines played in role in their injuries and even over heard a few parents saying that after their child was vaccinated they changed way back then when I was still a child.

Anyway below are some links to some discussion that I started. You might like my screen name better there Ha! I think you can log in with facebook or twitter I am not sure though I have had an account there for several years and am not exactly sure if you have to register with them to post. I would love for you to mention your personal experiences with brain injured children.

http://lisafrequency.newsvine.com/_news/2015/01/30/29067624-the-truth-about-measles-the-mainstream-media-is-suppressing

http://lisafrequency.newsvine.com/_news/2015/02/03/29156343-measles-transmitted-by-the-vaccinated-gov-researchers-confirm

[LibertárioBR]

Generations of fools that do not know what is scientific thought. Internet is a good tool. The problem is the scientifically illiterate.

[donnay]

Generations of fools that do not know what is scientific thought. Internet is a good tool. The problem is the scientifically illiterate.


You mean like science of global warming?

I don't need a PhD to know when the wool is being pulled over my eyes. I also know that a good strong immune system is the best defense to stay healthy.

[jmdrake]

That's actually why some of the potential side effects are listed in the "warnings" even though it isn't actually proved that it is a potential side effect. If a test subject develops a condition during the clinical trials, then it is required that condition be listed as a possible side effect even if it wasn't directly related to the vaccine. SIDs is a prime example of that. There is no evidence that it is related to vaccines, but it is still listed as a potential side effect for the MMR.

The odds of developing a permanent side effect from a vaccine is infinitesimally smaller than developing one from the disease they protect from. It's only hard because the anti vaxxers are lunatics.

LOL. Angela I don't think you said what you meant. If the odds of developing a permanent side effect from a vaccine are truly "infinitesimally smaller" than developing one from the disease they protect from...that literally means the odds of developing a permanent side effect from a vaccine is virtually the same as the odds of developing a permanent side effect from the disease. Surely that's not what you meant. Funny anyway.

Here's the deal. 99.9% of the population has no allergy to peanuts. That doesn't mean the risk is worth it for those who are. Same with vaccines.

[jmdrake]

That's true. The grand mal seizures are scary but there is no long term damage.

That depends on the definition of "damage." Prior to being famous for separating twins co-joined at the head, Dr. Ben Carson's claim to fame was performing hemispherectomies (removing one hemisphere of the brain) precisely to stop grand mal seizures. If they are "no big deal" then there's no reason for such a surgery. There are more ways to measure quality of life than a simply IQ test.

[jmdrake]

That's true. The grand mal seizures are scary but there is no long term damage.

Actually it turns out YOU CAN DIE FROM SEIZURES!

http://benswann.com/cannabis-oil-legalization-bill-advances-through-tn-house-committee/
Cannabis oil legalization became a political issue in the state after Tennessee families with children suffering from seizure disorders, some of which resulting in thousands of seizures per day, began to plan moves out of state in an effort to seek treatment for their children. FOX-13 notes that Memphis three-year-old Chloe Grauer tragically passed away from a severe seizure late last year while waiting for a cannabis oil legalization bill to pass in Tennessee. According to The Leaf Chronice, Chloe Grauer’s grandmother Gail Grauer was present at the House Criminal Justice Subcommittee hearing in honor of her granddaughter.

[CaptainAmerica]

think of compulsory school as a gigantic mental vaccination and re-read the OP title

[angelatc]

Actually it turns out YOU CAN DIE FROM SEIZURES!

http://benswann.com/cannabis-oil-legalization-bill-advances-through-tn-house-committee/
Cannabis oil legalization became a political issue in the state after Tennessee families with children suffering from seizure disorders, some of which resulting in thousands of seizures per day, began to plan moves out of state in an effort to seek treatment for their children. FOX-13 notes that Memphis three-year-old Chloe Grauer tragically passed away from a severe seizure late last year while waiting for a cannabis oil legalization bill to pass in Tennessee. According to The Leaf Chronice, Chloe Grauer’s grandmother Gail Grauer was present at the House Criminal Justice Subcommittee hearing in honor of her granddaughter.

"Seizure disorders" is different than febrile seizures. (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/FebrileSeizures.html) That child was very, very sick in that she had seizures every moment that she was awake (https://cohen.house.gov/wmc-action-news-5-federal-roadblock-prevents-little-girl-getting-medical-cannibas-oil-treatment).

The odds of dying from a vaccine related side effect is infinitesimal compared to the odds of dying from the disease that the vaccine prevents.

[Stratovarious]

Yeah, the internet has made succeeding generations increasingly intelligenter.
...more intelligenter.