Naomi Wolf: The End of America (Audio Interview) W/ Alex Jones

[V4Vendetta]

Great Interview!!
I literally almost threw up at what I was hearing...
Heavenly Father.. Please help the righteous in America survive the future

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUMGOeBlRZc

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbtoXNDyyT8

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXZhsmBrI0

[CannotIgnoreAnyone]

Two fakes having a love fest on air trying to scare the heck out of the American people.

I really wish people would wake up to the plethora of false actors in the mainstream and alternative media. This act is really getting old.

[johngr]

Two fakes having a love fest on air trying to scare the heck out of the American people.

I really wish people would wake up to the plethora of false actors in the mainstream and alternative media. This act is really getting old.

There's no doubt in my mind that Wolf is a shill, as I have said elsewhere http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=34678. She uses the subtle NLP technique of "pacing and leading", matching and mirroring what a segment the public is experiencing to gain rapport and then leading them in the direction she want them to go. Her job is to employ a disinfo technique that I call "purifying the swamp" by endorsing Hillary Clinton and making her a civil libertarian by association. She's a plagiarist, too, Her theme and indeed, the very number of steps are the same as in Allan Uthman's 2006 essay:

Allan Uthman, Buffalo Beast. May 26, 2006 (http://www.alternet.org/story/36553/)

Three of Wolf's steps are blatant ripoffs of Uthmans's steps (and many of the others build on Uthman's work without crediting him):

Uthman
2. "The Long War"

This little piece of clumsy marketing died off quickly, but it gave away what many already suspected: the War on Terror will never end, nor is it meant to end. It is designed to be perpetual. As with the War on Drugs, it outlines a goal that can never be fully attained -- as long as there are pissed off people and explosives. The Long War will eternally justify what are ostensibly temporary measures: suspension of civil liberties, military expansion, domestic spying, massive deficit spending and the like. This short-lived moniker told us all, "get used to it. Things aren't going to change any time soon."

Wolf
1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

After we were hit on September 11 2001, we were in a state of national shock. Less than six weeks later, on October 26 2001, the USA Patriot Act was passed by a Congress that had little chance to debate it; many said that they scarcely had time to read it. We were told we were now on a "war footing"; we were in a "global war" against a "global caliphate" intending to "wipe out civilisation". There have been other times of crisis in which the US accepted limits on civil liberties, such as during the civil war, when Lincoln declared martial law, and the second world war, when thousands of Japanese-American citizens were interned. But this situation, as Bruce Fein of the American Freedom Agenda notes, is unprecedented: all our other wars had an endpoint, so the pendulum was able to swing back toward freedom; this war is defined as open-ended in time and without national boundaries in space - the globe itself is the battlefield. "This time," Fein says, "there will be no defined end."

Creating a terrifying threat - hydra-like, secretive, evil - is an old trick. It can, like Hitler's invocation of a communist threat to the nation's security, be based on actual events (one Wisconsin academic has faced calls for his dismissal because he noted, among other things, that the alleged communist arson, the Reichstag fire of February 1933, was swiftly followed in Nazi Germany by passage of the Enabling Act, which replaced constitutional law with an open-ended state of emergency). Or the terrifying threat can be based, like the National Socialist evocation of the "global conspiracy of world Jewry", on myth.

It is not that global Islamist terrorism is not a severe danger; of course it is. I am arguing rather that the language used to convey the nature of the threat is different in a country such as Spain - which has also suffered violent terrorist attacks - than it is in America. Spanish citizens know that they face a grave security threat; what we as American citizens believe is that we are potentially threatened with the end of civilisation as we know it. Of course, this makes us more willing to accept restrictions on our freedoms.

Uthman
4. Prison Camps

This last January the Army Corps of Engineers gave Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root nearly $400 million to build detention centers in the United States, for the purpose of unspecified "new programs." Of course, the obvious first guess would be that these new programs might involve rounding up Muslims or political dissenters -- I mean, obviously detention facilities are there to hold somebody. I wish I had more to tell you about this, but it's, you know... secret.

Wolf
2. Create a gulag

Once you have got everyone scared, the next step is to create a prison system outside the rule of law (as Bush put it, he wanted the American detention centre at Guantánamo Bay to be situated in legal "outer space") - where torture takes place.

At first, the people who are sent there are seen by citizens as outsiders: troublemakers, spies, "enemies of the people" or "criminals". Initially, citizens tend to support the secret prison system; it makes them feel safer and they do not identify with the prisoners. But soon enough, civil society leaders - opposition members, labour activists, clergy and journalists - are arrested and sent there as well.

Uthman
7. Warrantless Wiretapping

Amazingly, the GOP sees this issue as a plus for them. How can this be? What are you, stupid? You find out the government is listening to the phone calls of US citizens, without even the weakest of judicial oversight and you think that's okay? Come on -- if you know anything about history, you know that no government can be trusted to handle something like this responsibly. One day they're listening for Osama, and the next they're listening in on Howard Dean.

Think about it: this administration hates unauthorized leaks. With no judicial oversight, why on earth wouldn't they eavesdrop on, say, Seymour Hersh, to figure out who's spilling the beans? It's a no-brainer. Speaking of which, it bears repeating: terrorists already knew we would try to spy on them. They don't care if we have a warrant or not. But you should.

Wolf
4. Set up an internal surveillance system

In Mussolini's Italy, in Nazi Germany, in communist East Germany, in communist China - in every closed society - secret police spy on ordinary people and encourage neighbours to spy on neighbours. The Stasi needed to keep only a minority of East Germans under surveillance to convince a majority that they themselves were being watched.

In 2005 and 2006, when James Risen and Eric Lichtblau wrote in the New York Times about a secret state programme to wiretap citizens' phones, read their emails and follow international financial transactions, it became clear to ordinary Americans that they, too, could be under state scrutiny.

In closed societies, this surveillance is cast as being about "national security"; the true function is to keep citizens docile and inhibit their activism and dissent.

[CannotIgnoreAnyone]

There's no doubt in my mind that Wolf is a shill, as I have said elsewhere http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=34678. She uses the subtle NLP technique of "pacing and leading", matching and mirroring what a segment the public is experiencing to gain rapport and then leading them in the direction she want them to go. Her job is to employ a disinfo technique that I call "purifying the swamp" by endorsing Hillary Clinton and making her a civil libertarian by association.
Johngr, nice to see someone on this forum actually observing and thinking. Now, use your same powers of observation and analysis to analyze the interviewer in that interview, you will be fascinated and come to the same conclusion, if you haven't already - your "puryfying the swamp" meme fits well with this actor's supposed support of RP.

[RPFTW!]

Alex Jones has been interviewing Ron Paul for years and years

[a_european]

johngr, I can understand your suspicion about Naomi Wolf, but to what is she leading? She doesn't make a good job to promote Hillary Clinton imho, Clinton doesn't need that help for the nomination, and if civil liberties become an election issue Paul blows everyone out of the water.
About NLP olol I was curious because I had heard that somewhere and checked it out. Its called ...ehm.. communications? I guess you can make a science out of everything. But really, all this things are pretty basic stuff in talking and making friends and allies. You have to find common ground!? I didn't know that!
Sry john for insulting you if you're into that. But from the short views I got the impression that people thinks it's magic or they have found the holy grail for manipulating people, when its not. Now I know when another guy tells me complete bullshit and grins at me like he has won, he tried NLP on me.

[Nicketas]

,.,.

[kimosabi]

AJ = fear mongering shill.

Considering America is at step 9 out of the 10 steps to becoming a fascist state, Alex Jones, Naomi Wolf, Ron Paul, etc are all the true true heros of America.

Anyone who hasn't realised this yet needs to stop taking Blue Pills...

[0zzy]

Why do you guys not like Jones or Wolf? I don't agree with Jones on everything, and I don't know much about Wolf (though I heard she doesn't like capitalism), but this is America, and they are preaching many truths that aren't being spoken about in the public.

I'm thinking about buying her book, should I?

[kimosabi]

Why do you guys not like Jones or Wolf? I don't agree with Jones on everything, and I don't know much about Wolf (though I heard she doesn't like capitalism), but this is America, and they are preaching many truths that aren't being spoken about in the public.

I'm thinking about buying her book, should I?

All I know is the more information you can absorb with the least amount of prejidice or Bias, the more informed analysis you can make of the information presented.

Alex Jones backs up most his information with FACTS. The problem that most people have with Alex Jones is when the FACTS are analysed, it scares the crap out of most people and this is for a good reason. You should have the crap scared out of you when you find out what's really going on.

[InRonWeTrust]

Alex Jones is a fucking kook with his 911 stuff.

[Electric Church]

“Ridicule is the last resort of a scoundrel.”

[fluoridatedbrainsoup]

Alex Jones is no shill; his job is waking people up and we need more like him.

[johngr]

Johngr, nice to see someone on this forum actually observing and thinking. Now, use your same powers of observation and analysis to analyze the interviewer in that interview, you will be fascinated and come to the same conclusion, if you haven't already - your "puryfying the swamp" meme fits well with this actor's supposed support of RP.

I have thought AJ was COINTELPRO ever since Bill Cooper called him on his Y2K fearmongering. It was confirmed in my mind with his warning with specific details about false flag terror 2 months before the WTC attacks. The "swamp" in my expression as applied there refers to Hillary. It does not apply to Ron Paul. Even if Ron Paul were "one of them" there are too few to matter, who think that he is anything other than honorable. I've seen no one attack his motives, his record or his personal history (aside from that newsletter thing that went nowhere).

[johngr]

johngr, I can understand your suspicion about Naomi Wolf, but to what is she leading? She doesn't make a good job to promote Hillary Clinton imho, Clinton doesn't need that help for the nomination, and if civil liberties become an election issue Paul blows everyone out of the water.

It's obvious to anyone with an IQ above 75 that people are very upset about the erosion of civil liberties. That's Wolf's "pacing" part. Naomi Wolf is not so much promoting Hillary Clinton as she is leading people bent to the left who are concerned about the issue, Pied Piper-like to Hillary. She definitely does "promote" the phony left-right distinction and most important and disturbing, she endorses Clinton. That's enough to convince me. It doesn't add up --or das pack ich nicht.


About NLP olol I was curious because I had heard that somewhere and checked it out. Its called ...ehm.. communications? I guess you can make a science out of everything. But really, all this things are pretty basic stuff in talking and making friends and allies. You have to find common ground!? I didn't know that!
Sry john for insulting you if you're into that. But from the short views I got the impression that people thinks it's magic or they have found the holy grail for manipulating people, when its not. Now I know when another guy tells me complete bullshit and grins at me like he has won, he tried NLP on me.

I have had some training in NLP, enough to know that it works, that it's meant to work outside awareness and to notice when newsreaders and politicans seem to use it. I've seen it often and obviously enough (to someone trained in it) to convince me that they're not doing it unconsciously.


Considering America is at step 9 out of the 10 steps to becoming a fascist state, Alex Jones, Naomi Wolf, Ron Paul, etc are all the true true heros of America.

Anyone who hasn't realised this yet needs to stop taking Blue Pills...
In Wolf's talks I hear a lot of (certainly well-deserved) blame for the majority of Republican executives and legislators but little for the Quisling Democrats (esp. Lieberman, whom she campaigned for) that went along with all the bullshit.

Naomi Wolf is a Rhodes scholar (CFR). She was a high-level consultant on Clinton's reelection campaign as well as on the Gore/Lieberman campaign (Leiberman, you know the guy who's on about "Islamofascists" and is just fine with the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, et. al.). I think "The end of America" is an odd title for someone who helped get reelected someone who was directly responsible for its deconstruction. Clinton presided over an unprecedented expansion of the Federal police state, not to mention the incineration of the children Waco compound, the Randy Weaver siege and this

http://www.idcomm.com/personal/n0vse/clinton%20elian.jpg

I've never heard her repudiate Bill Clinton's initiatives with federal grants to local police departments that went a long way toward militarizing them tactically, equipment-wise and culturally. Her ilk has no problem with police state tactics or an unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation (the run-up to which which was equally based on blatant lies), so long as the targets are "right wing extremists", "gun nuts" refugees from Communist dictators, or nations that are "too white" and want to stay that way and want to run their own currency and banking.

[a_european]

Thanks John for the insightful answer. The one-dimensional political view of Naomi Wolf always disturbed me, but I thought she was trapped in that belief like many others. The facts about the ties to the democratic party you posted may explain alot. Ever heard of her view of the second amendment? If i understood her right its very Hamilton, just that the States should have a militia/army under the control of the people.

"or das packt nicht" :D I would say that the right form is "das pack ich nicht" and "das packst (du) nicht", which means either not being able to do something or comprehend something or "it does'nt add up" or "blows your mind", first and second person (the explanation is for others).

About NLP, more people should be aware of that. I think I react allergic to this stuff because I'm so sick of bullshit, talking without real content.

(I tried to include a Viennese Slang word or phrase in my post, but nothing appropriate came to my mind)

[johngr]

Thanks John for the insightful answer. The one-dimensional political view of Naomi Wolf always disturbed me, but I thought she was trapped in that belief like many others. The facts about the ties to the democratic party you posted may explain alot. Ever heard of her view of the second amendment? If i understood her right its very Hamilton, just that the States should have a militia/army under the control of the people.

"or das packt nicht" :D I would say that the right form is "das pack ich nicht" and "das packst (du) nicht", which means either not being able to do something or comprehend something or "it does'nt add up" or "blows your mind", first and second person (the explanation is for others).

About NLP, more people should be aware of that. I think I react allergic to this stuff because I'm so sick of bullshit, talking without real content.

She gave a magazine interview where she reluctantly changed her position and supported the 2nd Amendment. It's a no-cost concession and I take it in the context of everything else I have seen of her as a calculated position. Opposition to gun-grabbing is certainly not a central part of her dissidence.

I studied German only a year and visited Vienna in '93 so I've forgotten much, unfortunately. :( I guess my attempt at using NLP on you failed miserably. :)

[Electric Church]

I have thought AJ was COINTELPRO ever since Bill Cooper called him on his Y2K fearmongering. It was confirmed in my mind with his warning with specific details about false flag terror 2 months before the WTC attacks.

So you thought AJ was a COINTELPRO because he was fear mongering about Y2K and nothing happened.

That was confirmed in your above 75 IQ mind because he was fear mongering about WTC attacks and something did happen.

Anyone with an IQ above 50 can see that when one comes to the same conclusion based upon opposite results means their assessments are worth a pile of garbage. Very COINTELPRO of you.

[apropos]

Naomi Wolf often opens by saying our democracy is under attack. It's hard to take her too seriously after that, because we don't live in a democracy. Never have.

If she is so wrong about something as fundamental as the system of government we live under, I have to question her overall intellectual judgment. If she does understand that we are a republic and not a democracy, she needs to stop misleading and/or dumbing it down with 'democracy'.

[Electric Church]

I have a lot of trouble believing people to be true Ron Paul supporters when they use a Ron Paul form to put people down who attack the mainstream establishment.

Wouldn't one's energies be best served by putting down those individuals who support the mainstream establishment? You know, the real cockroaches like Bush, Cheney, Giuliani, Clinton, Rockefeller, Pearle, Bernanke, Wolfowitz, Paulson, Brzezinski, Gore, Romney, Gonzalez, just to name a few…. Unless that is, they really are in support of the mainstream establishment.

I mean whom should I fear more, Alex Jones and Naomi Wolf or the creeps mentioned above? I can say one thing: the creeps mentioned above sure fear Jones and Wolf which is why their minions are here to covertly support them.

[robandsally]

I have thought AJ was COINTELPRO ever since Bill Cooper called him on his Y2K fearmongering. It was confirmed in my mind with his warning with specific details about false flag terror 2 months before the WTC attacks. The "swamp" in my expression as applied there refers to Hillary. It does not apply to Ron Paul. Even if Ron Paul were "one of them" there are too few to matter, who think that he is anything other than honorable. I've seen no one attack his motives, his record or his personal history (aside from that newsletter thing that went nowhere).
RP doesn't appear to be one of them. But AJ clearly is. He's been professionally trained in a number of psycholinguistic techniques, that's obvious to anyone who's really awake and paying attention.

Listen carefully to AJ's interviews of RP over the last few months and then check out his next day's story on the interview. AJ sets carefully crafted traps throughout his interviews, ones that very few would pick up on. Good thing RP usually doesn't fall for them, but on occassion he has and AJ has taken full advantage of it in his written story.



Naomi Wolf is a Rhodes scholar (CFR). She was a high-level consultant on Clinton's reelection campaign as well as on the Gore/Lieberman campaign
Rhodes scholar.....CFR....Clinton....Gore .....certainly strong evidence to indicate she is part of the club and is not sincere in her attacks against the establishment. Further, all of her material is simply predictive programming disguised as dissent. Take another look at the messages that she is selling and think about it.



So you thought AJ was a COINTELPRO because he was fear mongering about Y2K and nothing happened.
If you can't see that there are actors playing key roles on all sides than you need to reevaluate your perception of reality. Do you really think the establishment would allow real leaders of dissent to rise up?

Further, beyond AJ's professional training, one of his roles is to function as the tip-of-the-spear for mainstream media. Once AJ puts a story out there then it's safe for someone like Michelle Malkin to quote from it as long as she quotes him as "Conpiracy theorist Internet Shock Jock." Once Michelle or similar "edgy" mainstream talking head has published it, it becomes safer for more mainstream players to run with it. It's a system....one must look at the players as they fit into their roles.


I mean whom should I fear more, Alex Jones and Naomi Wolf or the creeps mentioned above? I can say one thing: the creeps mentioned above sure fear Jones and Wolf which is why their minions are here to covertly support them.
These are critical times and false actors can be extremely damaging, especially to those who buy-into their message. I don't think anyone here is arguing that false actors should be feared more or less, I think what some people here are arguing is that people should engage actors with extreme skepticism, espcially when those actors are able to achieve significant market and distribution. I mean, if these people are truely "Unauthorized," then how in the heck to they operate on such a large scale?

Further, if you don't have training in psycholinguistics, then you really don't have the tools to argue your position with any merit. I mean, if you can't recognize the technique, then how can you make any analysis at all? You can't. You're working on emotion, not logic.

[Richandler]

Naomi Wolf needs to realize this other fact: We also essentially have 9/10 steps/requirements for a communist state. Funny how fascism and socialism/communism go hand-in-hand. And note: this isn't the first, second or even third time this has happened.

[Electric Church]

If you can't see that there are actors playing key roles on all sides than you need to reevaluate your perception of reality.

Further, if you don't have training in psycholinguistics, then you really don't have the tools to argue your position with any merit.


Yes …everyone’s an actor except for the anonymous 2-poster robandsally with the psycholinguistics training. Everyone else without this specialized training just shut up and let our 2-poster friend explain how the world works.

[Andrew-Austin]

I don't know a thing about Naomi, but Alex has always seemed genuine to me.

It is an interesting point to make, that they both COULD be trained in psycholinguistics. Definitely something to consider. (I've read about NLP some myself..)

Anyways, I posted this in the 9/11 thread and it is relevant in this thread:


I'm not going to state what I think of this issue, because it does not matter.

This is a Ron Paul forum. We should all embrace what we have in common (RP) instead of arguing about our differences. Truther or not surely you can agree that another investigation needs to be done, and if Ron Paul is elected that will be so.

[johngr]

So you thought AJ was a COINTELPRO because he was fear mongering about Y2K and nothing happened.

That was confirmed in your above 75 IQ mind because he was fear mongering about WTC attacks and something did happen.

Anyone with an IQ above 50 can see that when one comes to the same conclusion based upon opposite results means their assessments are worth a pile of garbage. Very COINTELPRO of you.

C'mon, you can do better that that.

In late July, 2001, Alex Jones predicted that there was going to be a false flag terrorism attack in order that the globalists could bring down America. He mentioned "CIA asset" Osama Bin Laden as "boogeyman" as well as blowing up airplanes and the World Trade Center in the same sentence. There are only three reasonable explanations for Alex Jones' foreknowledge of such specific details of the WTC attacks:

1. The OS is true. He had inside knowledge from Osama Bin Laden or someone who knew of his plot (I don't buy that for a minute) and blamed the US intel/gov't for some reason.

2. He's a psychic.

3. The people behind the attacks are different from those named in the OS. AJ was fed info from people who were connected to such people.

I obviously believe that #3 was the case -- in order to establish his credibility as a leader among the remnants of the patriot movement and the anti-government and conspiracy-minded folks. He took up Bill Cooper's mantle.

You seem to forget this exchange we had awhile back:


My take is that he's COINTELPRO and was fed the information to establish his credibility among conspiracy theorists and remnants of the patriot and militia movement. Bill Cooper (Jones' competition who was critical of his sensationalizing) was killed shortly after the attacks with in a gun battle with a sheriff. I think Bill was a useful idiot who was becoming a dangerous (to them) idiot, especially when he started to recognize that some of the alien stuff was faked.


Interesting. If that is true (the cointelpro thing) what is the ultimate point? To enumerate those that distrust the government?


I've heard Alex rant about illegal aliens, to the point of calling people to arms. I think some of his callers are not randomly selected and meant to stoke this anger. The tax-funded La Raza and Mecha are spewing similar invective to the other side and calling for a Marxist style revolution. I think that Alex Jones' mission might be that of a provacateur on a much larger scale than ever before.


Hmm, provoking people into violence plays into the government hands nicely because a) it gives them all the excuse they need to institute martial law and

b) it gives them all the excuse they need to lock up or kill those who care about the country but were whipped up into a violent frenzy...]

You obviously had a high enough IQ back then to figure it out back then. What changed? Why didn't you attack me and call me COINTELPRO then?

The way I look at it, any opposition leader that wants to expose the elite's dirty secrets who becomes popular and is allowed to continue pretty much has to be compromised or useful to the elite. If anyone is any real threat to them he'll get shut down. It's happened over and over again. I AJ weren't useful to TPTB, he wouldn't have a mike (or maybe even be alive (read: have ended up similar to Bill Cooper)).



BTW, here's someone else's take on AJ's over-the-top fearmongering from the Break For News forum that made sense to me:


The "Do Nothing" Vector, part 2: Martial Law and the Police State is
coming, how can we fight it? Or, "The Dear in Headlights" Vector.

A.J. and some of the other GCN broadcasters are great promulgators of
this vector. AJ will go into virtual crying episodes on-air as he spouts:
"we're in real trouble, folks.....I'll I want to do it go eat pizza, watch a
movie and blah blah blah." Just look at the names of AJ's web site and
videos for evidence of how they attempt to perpetrate this vectors:
"prisonplanet.com" and "Police State" video. They use fear wrapped up
in just-about-anything-that-sells in order to scare you into "doing
nothing."

[Andrew-Austin]

Wait... If Alex were some COINTELPRO fear monger, then why would he so unflinchingly support Ron Paul?

And I don't follow his site much but he sometimes seems hopeful.

[johngr]

Wait... If Alex were some COINTELPRO fear monger, then why would he so unflinchingly support Ron Paul?

And I don't follow his site much but he sometimes seems hopeful.

Whom else could he credibly support?

[Electric Church]

C'mon, you can do better that that.

There are only three reasonable explanations for Alex Jones' foreknowledge of such specific details of the WTC attacks:



I don't have to do better. Anyone who comes to the same conclusion based upon opposite results should be totally discredited either because they have way below average analytical abilities or because they’re what they accuse others of being: COINTELPRO

And there is a fourth reason that you didn’t mention; it’s called reading the available Intel.

With regard to Evildetector he can speak for himself. I am not evildetector but I can detect evil

[johngr]

I don't have to do better. Anyone who comes to the same conclusion based upon opposite results should be totally discredited either because they have way below average analytical abilities or because they’re what they accuse others of being: COINTELPRO

"Opposite results" is a narrow construction of yours that is rather weak, imo. Let me spell it out for you. Jones fearmongered the Y2K non-crisis. Jones implausibly accurately predicted the WTC attacks:

"Result" #1 Jones renders his cult members afraid. Bill Cooper on his radio show and his callers describe that well here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sweGpP82S0I Fearmongering and provacatuering are typical COINTELPRO activities.

"Result" #2 Jones establishes his bona fides with people in the patriot movement, with information from a dubious source, imo.

These "results" do not necessarily oppose each other.


And there is a fourth reason that you didn’t mention; it’s called reading the available Intel.

Intel that there was going to be an attack involving the WTC and blowing up airplanes!? Whom was this kind of intel available from? Who else was privy to it and who else made such a specific (as well as carefully worded and plausibly deniable) prediction about the WTC attacks?

[Malakai0]

Naomi is trying to spread a dangerous message to the mainstream media, that the bush administration and maybe others are planning on taking over the show at some point soon. She should be applauded by us and has very nice things to say about RP.

Quit hating on everyone who is not a dedicated RP supporter. It's getting tiresome.


The interview is absolutely fabulous, and if you listen to it you will see there is no way Wolf is corrupt. She just totally verified something most uninformed people would say is pure Alex Jones conspiracy theory. Ties to democrats don't make her part of some conspiracy...

As our friend in podcasting Adam Curry likes to say, this is red pill material.

[johngr]

Naomi is trying to spread a dangerous message to the mainstream media, that the bush administration and maybe others are planning on taking over the show at some point soon. She should be applauded by us and has very nice things to say about RP.

Quit hating on everyone who is not a dedicated RP supporter. It's getting tiresome.

Sorry, if I don't trust Hillary-supporting establishment members. Naomi Wolf is connected in the political stratosphere. She is in no danger whatsoever.

[robandsally]

Sorry, if I don't trust Hillary-supporting establishment members. Naomi Wolf is connected in the political stratosphere. She is in no danger whatsoever.
Agreed.

Johngr, we applaud your patience and diligence in this thread, but the scale of deception is simply too great for these posters to comprehend at this time. It's really hard to witness, but we've learned all one can do is walk away.....they will come back if and when they are ready to hear the message.

[Malakai0]

So you really think Alex Jones is a government plant then too? Man I'm normally on the other side of these convo's!

[johngr]

So you really think Alex Jones is a government plant then too? Man I'm normally on the other side of these convo's!

Dissident leaders who are a threats to TPTB tend to be silenced. If Jones had gotten his info about the coming 9/11/2001 attack from above-board sources, I don't believe he would have a microphone right now (and would be lucky to be alive).

[Electric Church]

You guys appear to be all alone flailing in the dark. Give it up, change usernames and start over again.

[robandsally]

You guys appear to be all alone flailing in the dark. Give it up, change usernames and start over again.

"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."
--Dresden James

"People only see what they are prepared to see."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
--Anatole France

"If you give a man the correct information for seven years, he may believe the incorrect information on the first day of the eighth year when it is necessary, from your point of view, that he should do so. Your first job is to build the credibility and the authenticity of your propaganda, and persuade the enemy to trust you although you are his enemy."
-- A Psychological Warfare Casebook Operations Research Office Johns Hopkins University Baltimore (1958)

[Electric Church]

www.infowars.com

[fireinme]

I have 2 propositions

1. If these people are plants then it is possible that they are pushing a message to mislead us (same as Y2k). They are saying the bush administration is it when it could very well be someone else.

2. My second and this is the one I like best. The enemy feeds people like Alex Jones information that is misleading in order to create something called "conspiracy theories" and thus give these people a bad name.

[Nicketas]

,.,.,.

[smartguy911]

Naomi Wolf is soooooooooooooooooooo HOT

**drooling**

[ChooseLiberty]

Interesting discussion.

Please name some people (besides Bill Cooper) that are not "false actors" or suspected of being "false actors".

So maybe Naomi Wolfe stole her thesis from someone else without credit. That's bad. But she's getting it in front of the public. Maybe it will wake some sheeple. Please punch some holes in the thesis for us.

Ayn Rand also stole most of her material BTW. :D

[realitywiz]

Very interesting thread. I've always liked Alex Jones. I won't form any conclusions about anybody, but I will be just a tad more careful about his information. All of you have some good points.

As for Naomi Wolf, she just seems like someone who comes from a liberal/Democrat background and is just now learning some of the darker secrets of the establishment. We have lots of liberals turning into libertarians as a result of Ron Paul's campaign -- let's not forget that. But thanks for making me more alert. :)

Keep the discussion going. :)


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[shida]

This is a very interesting thread. I've been listening to Alex Jones for a few months now and every so often I hear comments that he's CIA. Has anyone got any comments on the points raised on this website which is clearly of the view that he is.

http://www.spirituallysmart.com/Jones-CIA.htm

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

It's obvious to anyone with an IQ above 75 that people are very upset about the erosion of civil liberties. That's Wolf's "pacing" part. Naomi Wolf is not so much promoting Hillary Clinton as she is leading people bent to the left who are concerned about the issue, Pied Piper-like to Hillary. She definitely does "promote" the phony left-right distinction and most important and disturbing, she endorses Clinton. That's enough to convince me. It doesn't add up --or das pack ich nicht.

No, it doesn't add up. But, your take on her strategy doesn't add up, either.

I know of two people that Naomi Wolf pretty much delivered straight to Ron Paul. One a regular republican voter, and one a regular Nader voter (as this person wants to be more democrat than regular democrat.)

In my experience, it's fairly easy to convince the average person that democrats and republicans are the same. It's much more difficult to convince people that we're marching toward facism. Wolf does a pretty good job of that, and she's able to reach an especially tough demographic for that message - women. I think most people intelligent enough to understand Wolf don't agree that democrats are a solution. If that really is the strategy, I welcome it. It backfires. She presents a real problem that people have difficulty accepting (facism), and then provides a fake solution (Hillary) that's easy to spot as a fake solution. So now people see the problem, and look elsewhere for a solution.

[MooCowzRock]

Considering America is at step 9 out of the 10 steps to becoming a fascist state, Alex Jones, Naomi Wolf, Ron Paul, etc are all the true true heros of America.

Anyone who hasn't realised this yet needs to stop taking Blue Pills...

There is a difference between not taking the blue pill and over-fucking-dosing on the red pills.

I very much appreciate how the government today is moving awayt from its original purpose to an increasingly tyrannical state, and that too many politicians in an attempt to do what they think is right, feel that the ends justify the means when 1) it doesnt and 2)their means lead to a worse "ends", and they have lost all understanding of the purpose of our check on their power, one that needs to be returned to us, etc.

But Alex Jones, who also is just trying to do the right thing for what he believes, has just as bad an over-reaction with the concept that "the ends justify the means." While his end is a more likable outcome for the people, it still doesnt change the fact that he is just as much an extremist and fear-monger as the neocons.


Thats why I fully support Ron Paul and his message, because its the most realistic message and point, in between the neocons and Alex Jones.

Alex Jones and Bush can both fuck off.

[realitywiz]

I still doubt that Alex Jones and Naomi Wolf are shills. It's possible -- but I just don't think so. In any case, they're actually tremendously helping the Ron Paul movement whether they intend to or not. :)

AJ does over-react sometimes but that's just his personality. I like Jeff Rense better -- he's calmer.



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[CannotIgnoreAnyone]

This is a very interesting thread. I've been listening to Alex Jones for a few months now and every so often I hear comments that he's CIA. Has anyone got any comments on the points raised on this website which is clearly of the view that he is.
AJ's role is to:

- rub his conspiracy theorist shockjock koodies all over anything unauthorized, thereby discrediting further responsible research and discussion into the matter. That's why he's supporting RP so strongly, to help the "kook" label stick on RP.

- go crazy and rant on-air so that any normal thinking person would turn him off, thereby turning-off any discussion of the issues that he raises. Notice that he'll go for a while with normal and intelligent discussion, perhaps drawing regular folks in, then he goes crazy to discredit himself and everything he's talking about. This is by design.

- keep the sheeple focused on a pending police state, driving a wedge between the citizenry and local police forces that are there to protect this citizenry.

- instigate violence, so that the establishment can use this violence as an excuse to crash down on any domestic disturbance. This will justify the establishment's crackdown on the domestic population.

- utilize NLP, sophistry and other advanced language techniques to maintain confusion and fear amongs the population.

[Pete]

^^ +1


Another phenomenon floating around that I think is disinfo is Zeitgeist, The Movie.

It's a mixture of fact and fiction that no intelligent person would take seriously, thus discrediting the whole thing.

[johngr]

AJ's role is to:

- rub his conspiracy theorist shockjock koodies all over anything unauthorized, thereby discrediting further responsible research and discussion into the matter. That's why he's supporting RP so strongly, to help the "kook" label stick on RP.

- go crazy and rant on-air so that any normal thinking person would turn him off, thereby turning-off any discussion of the issues that he raises. Notice that he'll go for a while with normal and intelligent discussion, perhaps drawing regular folks in, then he goes crazy to discredit himself and everything he's talking about. This is by design.

- keep the sheeple focused on a pending police state, driving a wedge between the citizenry and local police forces that are there to protect this citizenry.

- instigate violence, so that the establishment can use this violence as an excuse to crash down on any domestic disturbance. This will justify the establishment's crackdown on the domestic population.

- utilize NLP, sophistry and other advanced language techniques to maintain confusion and fear amongs the population.

Wow. You nailed it.

[johngr]

Interesting discussion.

Please name some people (besides Bill Cooper) that are not "false actors" or suspected of being "false actors".

Fritz Springmeyer, Daniel Estulin (though he's often fed disinfo), Ben Fairhall. I'm sure there are others but the problem is if anyone who has any decent gets popular and doesn't deliver it in a self-discrediting manner, he tends to get prosecuted on trumped-up charges or whacked. I think David Icke might also have some good info (forget the lizard stuff, he probably deliberately put it there to discredit the rest or to protect himself or as a metaphor for something else (it ain't the Tibetans). If it weren't for the lizard stuff, he'd have ended up like Springmeyer (or more likely) Cooper.)

[johngr]

Interesting discussion.

Please name some people (besides Bill Cooper) that are not "false actors" or suspected of being "false actors".

Fritz Springmeyer, Daniel Estulin (though he's often fed disinfo), Ben Fairhall, Joe Vialls. I'm sure there are others but the problem is if anyone who has any decent info gets popular and doesn't deliver it in a self-discrediting manner, he tends to get prosecuted on trumped-up charges or whacked. I think David Icke might also have some good info (forget the lizard stuff, he probably deliberately put it there to discredit the rest or to protect himself or as a metaphor for something else (it ain't the Tibetans). If it weren't for the lizard stuff, he'd have ended up like Springmeyer (or more likely) Cooper.)

[robandsally]

Fritz Springmeyer, Daniel Estulin (though he's often fed disinfo), Ben Fairhall. I'm sure there are others but the problem is if anyone who has any decent gets popular and doesn't deliver it in a self-discrediting manner, he tends to get prosecuted on trumped-up charges or whacked. I think David Icke might also have some good info (forget the lizard stuff, he probably deliberately put it there to discredit the rest or to protect himself or as a metaphor for something else (it ain't the Tibetans). If it weren't for the lizard stuff, he'd have ended up like Springmeyer (or more likely) Cooper.)
Estulin and Icke gotta be disinfo. Estulin for his lastest "they're going to 'take-out' RP stuff....and Icke for his 'crazy' stuff like that lizard meme.

Basically, when someone mixes material that is crazy with discussion of unauthorized and meaningful issues, that's a strong sign that that actor should be received very cautiously. The reason is, disinfo actors alway spout crazy stuff so that they can be easily discredited later. When someone is discredited, all of their messages are discredited, not just the nutzo messages. This is a great way to discredit the meaningful message that are distributed by that person.

Someone who really understands what is going on is unlikely to also mix-in nutzo messages, for they know the importance of staying credible. Also, they would understand that the nutzo stuff is disinfo anyway, and would have no interest in spreading it.

[Victor]

Intel that there was going to be an attack involving the WTC and blowing up airplanes!? Whom was this kind of intel available from? Who else was privy to it and who else made such a specific (as well as carefully worded and plausibly deniable) prediction about the WTC attacks?

Aaron Russo.