67 confirmed cases of measles in California-centered outbreak

[TheCount]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-66-confirmed-cases-of-measles-in-california-20150121-story.html



There are now 67 confirmed cases of measles in an outbreak centered in California, health officials said.

The California Department of Public Health said there are now 59 cases in the state – 42 that have been directly linked to being at Disneyland Park or Disney California Adventure Park in December. Some people visited Disneyland Park or Disney California Adventure Park while infectious in January.


The 59 patients in California range in age from 7 months to 70 years. The vaccination status is known for 34 of the patients. Of those, 28 were unvaccinated, one had received partial vaccination and five were fully vaccinated.

82% unvaccinated.


But, don't worry, the measles is no big deal. These kids are sitting at home playing scrabble and enjoying their extended vacation...





Of the cases in California, one in four sickened have had to be hospitalized.


Or not.

[donnay]

The list was 70...if we are counting.

Lawrence Solomon: Vaccines can’t prevent measles outbreaks
http://business.financialpost.com/2014/05/01/lawrence-solomon-vaccines-cant-prevent-measles-outbreaks/


http://www.sott.net/image/s10/214643/large/vaccineworked.png

[PRB]

The list was 70...if we are counting.

Lawrence Solomon: Vaccines can’t prevent measles outbreaks
http://business.financialpost.com/2014/05/01/lawrence-solomon-vaccines-cant-prevent-measles-outbreaks/


http://www.sott.net/image/s10/214643/large/vaccineworked.png

if seatbelts work, why do you care if you're hit by a car?

[donnay]

The Disney Measles Outbreak: A Mousetrap of Ignorance

By: Sayer Ji, Founder

Disney Measles Outbreak

While the Disney measles outbreak is being blamed on the non-vaccinated, the evidence reveals a failing measles vaccine is behind the outbreak.

The latest stratagem to blame a failing measles vaccine on the non-vaccinated is all over the mainstream media, or should we say the marketing and cheerleading arm of the vaccine industry and the medical-industrial complex.

Two years ago, while a similar debacle was being played out, I wrote an article titled, "The 2013 Measles Outbreak: A Failing Vaccine, Not A Failure To Vaccinate (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/2013-measles-outbreak-failing-vaccine-not-failure-vaccinate1)," which deconstructed the myth that the minimally- or non-vaccinated were responsible for outbreaks of measles in highly vaccination compliant populations. According to the prevailing propaganda it is fringe religious communities, visitors from countries where measles is common, and vaccine objectors within the United States, that are responsible for the failure of the measles vaccine to confer lasting immunity.

Looking at the rising tide of vaccine resistant infectious outbreaks in the U.S. and abroad -- chickenpox (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/search/google-cse#gsc.q=blog%20chickenpox%20vaccine%20when%20man dated%20increases%20disease%20outbreak%20south%20k orean%20study%200%20blog%202013%20measles%20outbre ak%20failing%20vaccine%20not%20failure%20vaccinate 1), shingles (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/search/google-cse#gsc.q=blog%20pox%20cdc%20s%20vaccination%20age nda%20rise%20herpes%20zoster%20shingles), mumps (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/vaccines-dont-work-malignant-mumps-mmr-vaccinated-children-12), whooping cough (pertussis) (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/whooping-cough-reality-behind-myth), influenza (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/shocking-lack-evidence-supporting-flu-vaccines), HPV (Gardasil) (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/hpv-vaccine-debate-dont-ask-dont-tell-2), hepatitis B (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/fail-infant-hep-b-vaccines-perform-shamefully-time-end-them), to name but a few -- through the lens of the peer-reviewed and published literature on the topic (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/keyword/vaccine-failure) it is clear that the vaccines and not those who refuse to subject themselves to them are at the root of the problem. And nowhere is this more clearly evident than in the measles vaccine.

How do we know this?

Just a few months ago, a study published in PLoS titled, "Difficulties in eliminating measles and controlling rubella and mumps: a cross-sectional study of a first measles and rubella vaccination and a second measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930734/)," brought to light the glaring ineffectiveness of two measles vaccines (measles–rubella (MR) or measles–mumps–rubella (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/anti-therapeutic-action/vaccination-mumps-measles-rubella-mmr) (MMR) ) in fulfilling their widely claimed promise of preventing outbreaks in highly vaccine compliant populations. We dove deeply into the implications of this study in our article titled, "Why Is China Having Measles Outbreaks When 99% Are Vaccinated? (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/why-china-having-measles-outbreaks-when-99-are-vaccinated-2)"

Also, as we have explored in a previous article, "Measles: A Rash of Misinformation (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/search/google-cse#gsc.q=blog%20measles%20rash%20misinformation1h ttp%20www%20greenmedinfo%20com%20blog%20measles%20 rash%20misinformation1)," the measles vaccine (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/anti-therapeutic-action/vaccination-measles) is not nearly as safe and effective as is widely believed. Measles outbreaks have consistently occurred in highly immunization compliant populations. Here are just a few examples reported in the medical literature:

1985, Texas, USA: According to an article published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1987, "An outbreak of measles occurred among adolescents in Corpus Christi, Texas, in the spring of 1985, even though vaccination requirements for school attendance had been thoroughly enforced." They concluded: "We conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune."1

1985, Montana, USA: According to an article published in the American Journal of Epidemiology titled, "A persistent outbreak of measles despite appropriate prevention and control measures," an outbreak of 137 cases of measles occurred in Montana. School records indicated that 98.7% of students were appropriately vaccinated, leading the researchers to conclude: "This outbreak suggests that measles transmission may persist in some settings despite appropriate implementation of the current measles elimination strategy."2

1988, Colorado, USA: According to an article published in the American Journal of Public Health in 1991, "early 1988 an outbreak of 84 measles cases occurred at a college in Colorado in which over 98 percent of students had documentation of adequate measles immunity ... due to an immunization requirement in effect since 1986. They concluded: "...measles outbreaks can occur among highly vaccinated college populations."3

1989, Quebec, Canada: According to an article published in the Canadian Journal of Public Health in 1991, a 1989 measles outbreak was "largely attributed to an incomplete vaccination coverage," but following an extensive review the researchers concluded "Incomplete vaccination coverage is not a valid explanation for the Quebec City measles outbreak.4

1991-1992, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil: According to an article published in the journal Revista da Sociedade Brasileira de Medicina Tropical, in a measles outbreak from March 1991 to April 1992 in Rio de Janeiro, 76.4% of those suspected to be infected had received measles vaccine before their first birthday.5

1992, Cape Town, South Africa: According to an article published in the South African Medical Journal in 1994, " August 1992 an outbreak occurred, with cases reported at many schools in children presumably immunised." Immunization coverage for measles was found to be 91%, and vaccine efficacy found to be only 79%, leading them to conclude that primary and secondary vaccine failure was a possible explanation for the outbreak.6

[I]Continued... (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/disney-measles-outbreak-mousetrap-ignorance)

[TheCount]

If the measles vaccine doesn't work, please explain the ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated people affected by the Disneyland outbreak.

[donnay]

If the measles vaccine doesn't work, please explain the ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated people affected by the Disneyland outbreak.

Where's your proof that the ratios are right?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Ha ha; looks like the OP figured out a way to avoid a red rep bar. TheCount now knows that even progressive and paid/volunteer trolls can get + repped if they make vaccine threads.

[Working Poor]

I think vaccines may be creating super viruses kind like anti bacterial cleaners and soaps.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

if seatbelts work, why do you care if you're hit by a car?



Vaccines and seatbelts have sometimes become substitutes for responsible behavior and industriousness. Especially the mandates of both. The current development of the fat vaccine enables an entire generation of fat people. You no longer have to eat responsibly. The IRS/Dept of Health and Human Services fat vacccine funding sends that message to an entire nation.

People are lulled by seatbelts and other devices. The dumbest thing I've seen is the commercial with the tailgate warning feature. The trick to not hitting the car in front of you however, is very simple: pay attention and drive right.

You often have very little control over your external environment, but people keep trying anyway. Take care of yourself first. Control your internal environment. More and more technology, pills, vaccines, etc. are not a substitute.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Of the cases in California, one in four sickened have had to be hospitalized.






It would be interesting to see who got hospitalized, the vaccinated or unvaccinated. Just a guess--but I'd say the majority hospitalized were vaccinated. Those hospitalized were probably more susceptible with weaker immunity, partially due to vaccinations.

The lesson could actually be a false sense of security and MORE dire consequences if you're vaccinated. Both the vaccinated and unvaccinated get sick. You fare better with sickness, however when you're unvaccinated, partly due to better immunity.

[Zippyjuan]

It would be interesting to see who got hospitalized, the vaccinated or unvaccinated. Just a guess--but I'd say the majority hospitalized were vaccinated. Those hospitalized were probably more susceptible with weaker immunity, partially due to vaccinations.

The lesson could actually be a false sense of security and MORE dire consequences if you're vaccinated. Both the vaccinated and unvaccinated get sick. You fare better with sickness, however when you're unvaccinated, partly due to better immunity.

Can you support your suppositions? Both on those in the Disney case being hospitalized (one quarter of them when less than that- 18%- were vaccinated) and the claim that vaccines make your immune system weaker?

But let's run some numbers. 70 cases- 82% were not vaccinated (which would be 57 cases). http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/23/anti-vaxxers-brought-measles-to-the-happiest-place-on-earth.html 25% ended up in the hospital. (17 people).


Both the vaccinated and unvaccinated get sick. You fare better with sickness, however when you're unvaccinated, partly due to better immunity.

82% of those who got sick were not vaccinated. That means that the unvaccinated got sick five times as often as those who were vaccinated.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-measles-vaccine-disneyland-superbug-perspec-0126-20150123-story.html


Before the vaccine, the United States saw approximately 4 million cases of measles each year and 400 to 500 deaths. These are the stats that vaccine-deniers tend to emphasize — a relatively low number of deaths compared with the number of infections.

However, those statistics alone leave out a big part of measles infections. Pre-vaccine, almost 48,000 people were hospitalized each year because of measles and measles complications. One in 20 of those infected developed pneumonia. More rarely but more seriously, 1,000 became chronically disabled each year due to measles encephalitis.

But let's back up for a moment. These data were from the mid-20th century. We've made strides in sanitation and nutrition since then, right? Sears and others point out the importance of having a "well nourished" population and living in a developed country. That supposedly makes all the difference.


What many forget is that we had a massive outbreak of measles in the United States from 1989 to 1991. While our 644 cases in 2014 seems high compared with recent years, a quarter-century ago measles incidence spiked to 18,000 cases per year, with a total of more than 55,000 infections before the outbreak began to dwindle. It was the largest measles outbreak in this country since the 1970s.

It's hard to argue that in 1989 we had problems with modern sanitation. Arguably, we were healthier 25 years ago than we are now, if one uses the U.S. obesity rates as one marker of health and good nutrition. We had antibiotics for secondary infections, such as pneumonia, that settle in to measles-infected lungs — and fewer antibiotic-resistant bacterial pathogens than we do in 2015. Measles-associated pneumonia isn't easy to treat if it's caused by a "superbug," and we've not had to deal with a huge measles outbreak in the age of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA, and other drug-resistant bacteria.

Despite our advances and our modernity and our status as a developed country, we still saw 123 measles deaths during this epidemic—here, in the United States, where we get plenty of Vitamin A. There were also 11,000 hospitalizations — fully one-fifth of people infected with measles became sick enough to be hospitalized

How many have become hospitalized or suffered paralysis or died from vaccines?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

70 cases- 82% were not vaccinated (which would be 57 cases). http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/23/anti-vaxxers-brought-measles-to-the-happiest-place-on-earth.html 25% ended up in the hospital. (17 people).





Those numbers are incorrect. The vaccination status was known for only 34 of the 59 California residents (no status mention was made of the residents of 11 other states, so your Daily Beast article is inaccurate). That means the vaccination status is unknown for 25 people.
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/NR15-008.aspx

If 25% of the 59 were hospitalized, then that means 15 people were hospitalized. If the vaccination status of 25 of 59 people is not known, then that means the 15 hospitalized people could come from that group 25. That doesn't even include the 5 people who are known to be vaccinated.

If you further consider that 93% of California children have the MMR vaccine (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6230a3.htm?s_cid=mm6230a3_e), then I'd say my supposition carries a decent likelihood.

[Zippyjuan]

According to your own link, of those for whom vaccination status was known, 28 out of 34 were unvaccinated. That is 82%.


Of these 34, 28 were unvaccinated

Since no mention can be found on the vaccination status of those hospitalized it is pure assumption that most of them were vaccinated (or were at least more likely to have been vaccinated).


If 25% of the 59 were hospitalized, then that means 15 people were hospitalized. If the vaccination status of 25 of 59 people is not known, then that means the 15 hospitalized people could come from that group 25. That doesn't even include the 5 people who are known to be vaccinated.

It is equally possible that 100% of those hospitalized were from the unvaccinated group (but that too would be an unsupported assumption).

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

According to your own link, of those for whom vaccination status was known, 28 out of 34 were unvaccinated. That is 82%.


Yes, I know what I said. Your numbers are wrong.

The vaccine status of 25 people is unknown. Five were known to be vaccinated. That is 30 people, more than enough to account for the 15 people who were hospitalized.

Everybody is going to be exposed to germs. The issue is what happens after that. If your immunity is compromised, then you're likely to be one of the 15 people who needed more extensive treatment to recover.

[Zippyjuan]

Again, you are making a big assumption without any facts.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Since no mention can be found on the vaccination status of those hospitalized it is pure assumption that most of them were vaccinated (or were at least more likely to have been vaccinated). It is equally possible that 100% of those hospitalized were from the unvaccinated group (but that too would be an unsupported assumption).

The number of 28 people sounds like an anomaly. Possible, but I'd need to dig deeper. I'm skeptical since 93% of California children are MMR immunized. Vaccine rates are also declining, so MMR vaccination rate should be higher for adults.

Is it also possible that they are including pre-1957 people in that unvaccinated number? If so, then that is irrelevant. I'd also like to know their definition of "unvaccinated." Are they counting, as unvaccinated, a child who got the first dose of MMR, turned 4, and has NOT YET gotten around to the second dose? That second dose is done around kindergarten to first grade.

I'm skeptical because Zip's article from the Daily Beast has already quoted inaccurate numbers. Those inaccuracies are mostly from laziness or conveniently ignoring all the facts.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Again, you are making a big assumption without any facts.

Facts?! You're the one quoting an article that clearly got the facts wrong. What am I assuming? That people with compromised immunity are more likely to be hospitalized?

I'm actually digging deeper for facts, by asking the questions. You quoting an incorrect article means you are not doing that.

[Zippyjuan]

Your link supported the 82% figure as well. One of the victims did only have one dose of the vaccine and was counted as vaccinated according to your link.


Patients range in age from seven months to 70 years. Vaccination status is documented for 34 of the 59 cases. Of these 34, 28 were unvaccinated, one had received one dose and five had received two or more doses of MMR vaccine.

Neither of us can say which group was more or less likely to be hospitalized because we have no statistics on that so yes, it is an assumption that either group had a higher hospitalization rate.

I did find a bit more info:

Vaccination status is known for 34 of the California patients. State officials say that 28 were not vaccinated at all, one was partially vaccinated and five were fully vaccinated. Six of the unvaccinated were babies, too young to be vaccinated.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/01/22/379072061/disneyland-measles-outbreak-hits-59-cases-and-counting


If you were born before 1957, you are presumed to be immune to measles, because the disease was so widespread before the introduction of the vaccine. For years, only one dose was recommended; it protects 95 percent of people. The second dose was recommended starting in 1991.

and http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/have-you-had-your-measles-shot-maybe-you-need-another-n290786:

Among the known cases, five people had received two or more measles vaccinations and one person had received at lease one dose of vaccine. At least 32 of those infected people are aged 20 or older, accounting for 63 percent of the outbreak, health officials said.

And among the five Disneyland employees diagnosed with measles to date, two were previously vaccinated.


In 1989, federal officials changed their recommendation to two doses of measles-containing vaccine for kids. That followed a resurgence of the virus that infected more than 55,000 people, killing 123 Americans. By 1993, both epidemiological and laboratory evidence suggested that transmission of indigenous measles had been fully interrupted in the United States, Laufer said.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

One of the victims did only have one dose of the vaccine and was counted as vaccinated according to your link.


And that person could have been three years old, so that is also irrelevant.


Your link supported the 82% figure as well.



Yes, I know that, but that is 82% where the status was known. My link did not support your inaccurate numbers as you expressed here (red highlighting is my emphasis):


But let's run some numbers. 70 cases- 82% were not vaccinated (which would be 57 cases). http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/23/anti-vaxxers-brought-measles-to-the-happiest-place-on-earth.html 25% ended up in the hospital. (17 people).



Your numbers in red are inaccurate.

So what's the difference? The actual numbers, statistically, make my supposition possible. Your inaccurate, and made-up, numbers absolutely preclude the possibility that all of the hospitalized were vaccinated.

In other words, it's possible that none of the unvaccinated were hospitalized, but your made up numbers preclude that.

[Zippyjuan]

You are right- I am guilty of assuming that the vaccinated ratio for the known cases would be the same in the unknown cases.

But also again, since we know nothing about the vaccination rates of those who ended up hospitalized, we cannot assume any of them were in either group since we do not know.


Just a guess--but I'd say the majority hospitalized were vaccinated.

Theoretically possible- sure. It is also theoretically possible that zero of those hospitalized were vaccinated. Each is equally likely when nothing is known. We can make up whatever numbers we want. If we assume the distribution is the same as the known vaccination rates, then the most likely figure is three of the fifteen hospitalized were vaccinated. But again, we don't know and the sample size is too small to assume that the known group is fully representational of the entire group of victims.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

We can make up whatever numbers we want.

No, not "we." You. You made up numbers. I based my conjecture on actual numbers--and called it a "guess" at that.



If we assume the distribution is the same as the known vaccination rates,...

That's a tall order that discounts what you just said. I would also say that is a poor assumption, based on the reasons I outlined.

[PRB]

Vaccines and seatbelts have sometimes become substitutes for responsible behavior and industriousness. Especially the mandates of both.

i rest my case.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

i rest my case.


Resting on what? Everybody is supposed to endlessly vaccinate themselves from everything because you're to lazy to take care of your own health? Why don't you just get a giant bottle of Formula 409 and spray the whole earth?

[PRB]

Resting on what? Everybody is supposed to endlessly vaccinate themselves from everything because you're to lazy to take care of your own health? Why don't you just get a giant bottle of Formula 409 and spray the whole earth?

Resting on the fact you agree with me that vaccines are just like seatbelts.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Resting on the fact you agree with me that vaccines are just like seatbelts.


Seatbelts are mandated because of lazy people who refuse to do things like calculate proper distance. I am required to wear a seatbelt because of lazy people. Some guy tailgates me and now it's my problem.

[PRB]

Seatbelts are mandated because of lazy people who refuse to do things like calculate proper distance. I am required to wear a seatbelt because of lazy people. Some guy tailgates me and now it's my problem.

Seat belts are mandated because the government thinks it's their business to protect my children. I have the right to risk my child's life if I choose to drive recklessly. Yes, I'm lazy, and that's my choice, I am not harming anybody but myself and my children.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Seat belts are mandated because the government thinks it's their business to protect my children.

Don't blame it on the government. Government is made up of people. People like you. YOU think it's your business. People like you act like you generally care more about my kid than I care myself. People like you are lazy and arrogant.

Anyway, seatbelt laws were actually pushed heavily by the car companies as early as the 1970s. They saw airbags being pushed and saw the grand expense of them. Mandatory seatbelt laws were a way to bypass that, but it hardly worked out that way. Thanks Ralph Nader. Thanks big government types. Thanks PRB.

[Working Poor]

I don't know how many of you are familar with the Homeopathic principal of like cures like I think vaccines were built around this principal in the beginning. The people who create new vaccine are not following the other fundamental of small doseages. Homeopathic is thoroughly rejected by the FDA and all those other 3 lettered dumbasses. But homeopathic is declared safe for use as directed.
Rejecting homeopathic other principal of small dose is a big mistake because it over looks the bodies amazing ability to protect itself. If vaccines were in homepathic dose all the problems with vaccine would disappear.

[fisharmor]

Yeah, I'm just going to point out that regardless what the reason is for these parents not vaccinating,
At no point have I heard anyone in medicine try to address the reasons they don't vaccinate.

It's always crackpot this and religious zealot that... never "well gee, you know what, I guess we really are involved in some massively shitty science with respect to autism, so maybe we ought to stop that and figure out why 1 in 68 kids is now autistic, because if that goes any higher our entire society is going to genuinely collapse, and the parents might actually have weighed that against a statistically insignificant number of measles cases".

Makes me wonder how these jackasses managed to get through 8 years of college.

[Working Poor]

Yeah, I'm just going to point out that regardless what the reason is for these parents not vaccinating,
At no point have I heard anyone in medicine try to address the reasons they don't vaccinate.

It's always crackpot this and religious zealot that... never "well gee, you know what, I guess we really are involved in some massively shitty science with respect to autism, so maybe we ought to stop that and figure out why 1 in 68 kids is now. autistic, because if that goes any higher our entire society is going to genuinely collapse, and the parents might actually have weighed that against a statistically insignificant number of measles cases".

Makes me wonder how these jackasses managed to get through 8 years of college.

I wonder too.

[donnay]

I don't know how many of you are familar with the Homeopathic principal of like cures like I think vaccines were built around this principal in the beginning. The people who create new vaccine are not following the other fundamental of small doseages. Homeopathic is thoroughly rejected by the FDA and all those other 3 lettered dumbasses. But homeopathic is declared safe for use as directed.
Rejecting homeopathic other principal of small dose is a big mistake because it over looks the bodies amazing ability to protect itself. If vaccines were in homepathic dose all the problems with vaccine would disappear.

I definitely agree. The homeopathic nosodes are not injected, they are given orally and are not loaded down with toxic ingredients that go straight to your bloodstream.


The Cuban Experience
In October and November 2007, three provinces of the eastern region of Cuba were affected by strong rainfalls causing widespread floods severe damage to sanitary and health systems. The risk of leptospirosis infection was raised to extremely dangerous levels with about 2 million of people exposed to potentially contaminated water. The Finlay Institute (which manufactures vaccines for South America and Africa) prepared a leptospira nosode 200 CH using 4 circulating strains and following international quality standards. A multidisciplinary team travelled to the affected regions to conduct the massive administration of the nosode. Coordinated action with public health system infrastructures allowed the administration of a preventive treatment. Prevention consisted of two doses (7- 9 days apart) of the nosode to over 2.2 million of people (4.5 million doses). The coverage of the intervention rose up to 95% of total population of the three provinces most at risk.

The epidemiology surveillance after the intervention showed a dramatic decrease of morbidity two weeks after and a reduction to zero mortality of hospitalized patients. The number of confirmed leptospirosis cases remains at low levels, and below the expected levels according to the trends and rain regimens. A reinforcing application of nearly 4,500,000 doses was given in 2008 after the hit of the hurricane IKE but using the nosode potentized to 10-MCH. Strict epidemiologic surveillance was carried out on the targeted provinces. Published results show that the incidence of the disease was unchanged in the three intervened regions (the 3 regions most at risk due to the greatest level of hurricane damage), but rose significantly in the rest of the country where the HP program was not used. It provided overwhelming evidence of the effectiveness of the HP intervention. As a consequence, the Cuban Government directed the Finlay Institute to homeopathically immunise the entire country over 12 months of age against Swine Flu in 2009/10 (over 9.8 million people).

More data from Cuba will be released in the coming years regarding the leptospirosis and other interventions, such as their new HP immunisation against Dengue Fever (for which there is no vaccine available).

This immunization program undertaken by the Finlay Institute (a W.H.O. registered vaccine manufacturer) cost around $400,000US. It indicates that the entire population of Australia could be homoeopathically immunised for around $10,000,000. This cost applies for homeopathic immunization against any infectious disease. In 2009, the Australian Government spent $200,000,000 to purchase vaccines (mostly unused) to vaccinate the Australian population against Swine Flu. In fact, most of this expenditure could have been saved using homeopathic immunization against Swine Flu, and this calculation can be repeated many times given the large vaccination schedule now current in Australia. But further, the homeopathic option is non-toxic, and would remove the risk of using a little tested vaccine. We know in America when mass swine flu vaccination was last used that people died from the vaccine and hundreds were permanently damaged, costing the American Government billions in compensation.
http://www.homstudy.net/Research/


Large-scale application of highly-diluted bacteria for Leptospirosis epidemic control.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20674839

[PRB]

Don't blame it on the government. Government is made up of people. People like you. YOU think it's your business. People like you act like you generally care more about my kid than I care myself. People like you are lazy and arrogant.

Anyway, seatbelt laws were actually pushed heavily by the car companies as early as the 1970s. They saw airbags being pushed and saw the grand expense of them. Mandatory seatbelt laws were a way to bypass that, but it hardly worked out that way. Thanks Ralph Nader. Thanks big government types. Thanks PRB.

No, I don't think it's my business. I explicitly said that and you insist on saying the opposite.

I may be lazy and arrogant, but I am not a liberal and I don't believe the government should force parents to care for their child.

[euphemia]

I think the point is not whether people are vaccinated or not, but that someone came to Disneyland while they were sick with a contagious disease. This is the same thing that happens when sick people travel other places. It can be a big deal if some sort of contagious disease hits a flight or gathering of people. Touch a doorknob or utensil at a buffet, the next ten people are exposed. And then it's all Disney's fault. No, it's the fault of the person who came sick or brought a sick child.

Know the symptoms of disease. If you are sick, stay home. Don't send kids to school when they are sick.

it's not just a mortality or hospitalization issue. It's also a productivity issue. People who should not be sick suddenly are and have to miss work. Their kids have to miss school. Sick people should stay home.

[donnay]

Flashback:

Medical staff warned: Keep your mouths shut about illegal immigrants or face arrest

Editor's note: The contractor running the refugee camp at Lackland Air Force Base is "BCFS," not "Baptist Family and Children's Services" -- as noted in a previous version of this story.

A government-contracted security force threatened to arrest doctors and nurses if they divulged any information about the contagion threat at a refugee camp housing illegal alien children at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas, sources say.

In spite of the threat, several former camp workers broke their confidentiality agreements and shared exclusive details with me about the dangerous conditions at the camp. They said taxpayers deserve to know about the contagious diseases and the risks the children pose to Americans. I have agreed to not to disclose their identities because they fear retaliation and prosecution.

My sources say Americans should be very concerned about the secrecy of the government camps.

“There were several of us who wanted to talk about the camps, but the agents made it clear we would be arrested,” a psychiatric counselor told me. “We were under orders not to say anything.”

The sources said workers were guarded by a security force from the BCFS, which the Department of Health and Human Services hired to run the Lackland Camp.

The sources say security forces called themselves the “Brown Shirts.”

“It was a very submissive atmosphere,” the counselor said. “Once you stepped onto the grounds, you abided by their laws – the Brown Shirt laws.”

She said the workers were stripped of their cellphones and other communication devices. Anyone caught with a phone was immediately fired.

“Everyone was paranoid,” she said. “The children had more rights than the workers.”

She said children in the camp had measles, scabies, chicken pox and strep throat as well as mental and emotional issues.

“It was not a good atmosphere in terms of health,” she said. “I would be talking to children and lice would just be climbing down their hair.”

A former nurse at the camp told me she was horrified by what she saw.

“We have so many kids coming in that there was no way to control all of the sickness – all this stuff coming into the country,” she said. “We were very concerned at one point about strep going around the base.”

Both the counselor and the nurse said their superiors tried to cover up the extent of the illnesses.

“When they found out the kids had scabies, the charge nurse was adamant – ‘Don’t mention that. Don’t say scabies,’” the nurse recounted. “But everybody knew they had scabies. Some of the workers were very concerned about touching things and picking things up. They asked if they should be concerned, but they were told don’t worry about it.”

Continued... (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/02/medical-staff-warned-keep-quiet-about-illegal-immigrants-or-face-arrest/)

[Danke]

http://www.examiner.com/article/cdc-admitted-disease-imported-as-states-data-reveals-illegal-immigrant-links

[PRB]

I think the point is not whether people are vaccinated or not, but that someone came to Disneyland while they were sick with a contagious disease. This is the same thing that happens when sick people travel other places. It can be a big deal if some sort of contagious disease hits a flight or gathering of people. Touch a doorknob or utensil at a buffet, the next ten people are exposed. And then it's all Disney's fault. No, it's the fault of the person who came sick or brought a sick child.


The source person is the cause, but it's not a fault unless it was intentional. Besides, nobody is obligated to keep anybody safe, it's definitely not Disneyland's fault.



Know the symptoms of disease. If you are sick, stay home. Don't send kids to school when they are sick.


Why should I stay home? I have the right to travel and endanger other people.



it's not just a mortality or hospitalization issue. It's also a productivity issue. People who should not be sick suddenly are and have to miss work. Their kids have to miss school. Sick people should stay home.

Why should I care if other people get sick and lose productivity? They're not my employees, I didn't ask them to risk getting infected by not vaccinating. They made the choice to leave their house, they risk getting sick and losing productivity. Sick people are people too, and they deserve just the same rights as healthy people to go out and be social. Your immunity is not my responsibility.

[PRB]

She said children in the camp had measles, scabies, chicken pox and strep throat as well as mental and emotional issues.


Big deal! people have had those diseases for decades if not centuries, humanity is still alive. Who cares?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

No, I don't think it's my business.

Then stop making it your business. Progressive liberals like you insist that everyone else pay, but refuse to lift a finger. If you're so concerned about children, then adopt one. There are plenty of orphans. You insist on welfare, but refuse to open your wallet.

[donnay]

Big deal! people have had those diseases for decades if not centuries, humanity is still alive. Who cares?

The U.S. government opened up the flood gates and allow third world people in, who have lived in unsanitary areas, are malnourished and ill-- so when those disease start up again, it's blamed on people who do not want the toxic vaccines and it becomes a big deal.

[euphemia]

Why should I stay home? I have the right to travel and endanger other people.

Sorry, but no. Your rights end where mine start.

You do not have a right to go to Disneyland and infect people with measles. Disneyland is not public property. Nobody has a "right" to be there. An admission ticket is a revocable license. The attraction has the right to deny entrance to anyone they deem not to be in accordance with health and safety standards, and they can remove anyone they deem not acting in accordance with health and safety standards. They can revoke your license to be there, and if you want to try to recover your admission price in small claims court, go ahead and try.

If you are sick with a contagious disease, a hotel can throw you out. They have a lot of other people for whom their health and safety are of concern, and if kicking you out will give them one less thing to worry about, they will do it.

[PRB]

Then stop making it your business.


When did I ever? I am only a liberal in your imaginations.



Progressive liberals like you insist that everyone else pay


I am only a classical liberal, or libertarian, not a progressive liberal or liberal by modern usage.



, but refuse to lift a finger. If you're so concerned about children, then adopt one. There are plenty of orphans. You insist on welfare, but refuse to open your wallet.

I'm not concerned about anybody's children, only my own. When did I ever claim I care about somebody's child or welfare? EVER?

[PRB]

Sorry, but no. Your rights end where mine start.


You have a right to not be in danger? Where did you get that crazy idea?

[PRB]

The U.S. government opened up the flood gates and allow third world people in


What's wrong with that unless you're racist? If the US government closed borders you'd complain too.



, who have lived in unsanitary areas, are malnourished and ill-- so when those disease start up again, it's blamed on people who do not want the toxic vaccines and it becomes a big deal.

People who didn't toxic vaccine themselves ended up being the most vulnerable.

[Zippyjuan]

There is no indication that any of the measles victims were immigrants- legal or illegal. There were actually record low apprehensions of immigrants at the borders last year. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/30/u-s-border-apprehensions-of-mexicans-fall-to-historic-lows/


Immigration has fallen while people not getting vaccinated is rising. Now measles (and other diseases including whooping cough) which were almost completely eliminated are rising. It ain't the immigrants. (Most immigrants- legal and illegal- are coming from Asia, not Central or South America).

One child- too young to have been vaccinated yet- was indeed from Mexico. http://www.wsj.com/articles/number-of-measles-cases-rises-in-california-to-68-1422051859 Only six of the cases were known to have been vaccinated individuals (and one of those had only received one of the two recommended shots).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2015/01/20/five-things-to-know-about-the-disneyland-measles-outbreak/


1) Two things are driving the spread of measles – and neither is undocumented immigrants.

Those two things are the extreme infectiousness of the disease and the low levels of herd immunity, or community immunity, in pockets of southern California. Measles infects 9 out of every 10 non-immune individuals it finds. It’s airborne and hangs around up to two hours after an infected person leaves the area. It doesn’t take much for this disease to spread through a population that isn’t immune from previous exposure or through vaccination. Or, to put it another way, in an unvaccinated population, each person infected with the measles will transmit the disease to 12 to 18 other people. If no one were vaccinated against measles, we would be up to hundreds, perhaps thousands, of cases by now. We aren’t because there are some levels of herd immunity, but it’s because herd immunity has been weakened that we’re seeing additional cases at all.

Meanwhile, one of the biggest myths popping up in comment threads and on social media is that undocumented immigrants have something to do with this outbreak, or any other outbreak of a vaccine-preventable disease. We don’t yet know who Patient 0 – the first person with the disease – was at Disneyland, but we don’t really need to know. It’s not undocumented immigrants we should be pointing the finger at. It’s home-grown, upper-middle class, well-educated, mostly white southern California parents who have chosen not to vaccinate their children we should be giving the side-eye to. When vaccination rates in the region are below some developing countries’ rates, you don’t need undocumented immigrants to bring in the disease. Unvaccinated Americans do a fine job of that all on their own. A look at past cases makes this clear.

When the CDC tracked measles cases for the first half of 2013, they found that 159 cases resulted from 42 importations of the disease – but more than half those importations were U.S. residents returning to the States from abroad. Similarly, the outbreak of close to 400 cases in Ohio last year began with unvaccinated U.S. travelers returning from a visit to the Philippines. And the largest outbreak in San Diego since 1991 occurred in 2008 after an intentionally unvaccinated 7-year-old boy returned from a vacation in Switzerland with his family and brought back the measles. That last case is particularly of interest because the boy was a patient of Dr. Bob Sears, who has been spreading misleading information about measles in the midst of this outbreak.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/01/12/officials-thousands-possibly-exposed-in-disney-measles-outbreak/


Measles infections in the U.S. skyrocketed last year, with 610 cases reported. That’s the highest number since 2000, when the disease that causes a rash, high fever, and red, watery eyes, was considered to be eliminated.

The CDC says the increase is tied to a decline in child vaccinations.

“The biggest concern is you’re gonna have the potential for more outbreaks,” said Dr. Zahn.

Disneyland is located in Orange County, California, which is reported the highest rate of measles in the state last year. It ‘s also the home to some state’s highest numbers of unvaccinated children.

Orange County pediatrician doctor Bob Sears is part of a small minority in the medical community, that tells parents vaccinations are not always necessary.

One of his unvaccinated patients caused the last major outbreak in San Diego County.

[DamianTV]

Viruses and Bacteria do not recognize National Borders.

[donnay]

What's wrong with that unless you're racist? If the US government closed borders you'd complain too.

There isn't a bone in my body that is racist--and I resent implication! What I am is a sovereign citizen who gets tired of the double standards placed over our heads. I have absolutely no problem with people from around the globe coming to America but I resent the fact that this illegitimate government forces us to pay for them to live here. It then becomes an incentive for more to flood in, knowing they are going to get a meal ticket, education and room and board all off the backs of the nice American people.



People who didn't toxic vaccine themselves ended up being the most vulnerable.

Yeah that seems to be the lie they say over and over again for people like you to believe it. I'm just not buying the lie, and suggest that people do their own research and stop allowing the lie to control your independence--herd immunity...pfffffft. :rolleyes:

[donnay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&v=eTE26ENzQr8&x-yt-cl=84503534#t=110

[euphemia]

You have a right to not be in danger? Where did you get that crazy idea?

No, it means your rights do not trump mine. You seriously do not have a right to gain admission to a private place and expose hundreds or thousands of people to a highly contagious disease. Get over it.

[PRB]

No, it means your rights do not trump mine. You seriously do not have a right to gain admission to a private place and expose hundreds or thousands of people to a highly contagious disease. Get over it.

that wasn't my question. Do you or do you not have a right to be free from infection and danger?

[donnay]

that wasn't my question. Do you or do you not have a right to be free from infection and danger?

With Liberty there is ALWAYS risks. However, I will risk them to be free.

[euphemia]

that wasn't my question. Do you or do you not have a right to be free from infection and danger?

And that wasn't my assumption in the first place. What I am saying is that sick people do not have the right to put others at abnormally high risk of contagious disease.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Do you or do you not have a right to be free from infection and danger?


That's an ironic question coming from a lib progressive like you. You are always demanding that everything be a right. You attain those "rights" through government.

[PRB]

And that wasn't my assumption in the first place. What I am saying is that sick people do not have the right to put others at abnormally high risk of contagious disease.

How much risk is "abnormally high" and how much risk are you entitled to put people at? You use a lot of words to say a lot of nothing.

[PRB]

That's an ironic question coming from a lib progressive like you. You are always demanding that everything be a right. You attain those "rights" through government.

No, I only demand the rights I have, the rights I got from God.

[Weston White]

82% unvaccinated.

Not sure where you got 82%, but 5 out of the 34 known indicates about a 15% failure rate for those fully vaccinated against measles. Now I cannot speak for you, but for me that is not the least bit reassuring.


Or not.

By hospitalized you mean that they visited the ER due to high temperature and discomfort where they were promptly treated (likely with a steroid injection and prescription or two) and released?

[PRB]

[QUOTE=TheCount;5761368]82% unvaccinated.[quote]

Not sure where you got 82%, but 5 out of the 34 known indicates about a 15% failure rate for those fully vaccinated against measles. Now I cannot speak for you, but for me that is not the least bit reassuring.



By hospitalized you mean that they visited the ER due to high temperature and discomfort where they were promptly treated (likely with a steroid injection and prescription or two) and released?

that's irrelevant, i don't care if it's 100% effective, you still don't have a right to force me to vaccinate my child. period!

[Weston White]

that's irrelevant, i don't care if it's 100% effective, you still don't have a right to force me to vaccinate my child. period!

Agreed.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

No, I only demand the rights I have, the rights I got from God.


Oh, now he's resorting to blasphemy. Repent, you heathen.

[PRB]

Oh, now he's resorting to blasphemy. Repent, you heathen.

is that all you got????

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

is that all you got????

Well, I guess we could talk about your voting record. Like your voting for Boxer, Feinstein, and Pelosi.

[euphemia]

How much risk is "abnormally high" and how much risk are you entitled to put people at? You use a lot of words to say a lot of nothing.

Abnormally high is when someone has a contagious disease and decides the health of other people is of no importance compared to his right to ride The Matterhorn.

[euphemia]

Why should I stay home? I have the right to travel and endanger other people.



Why should I care if other people get sick and lose productivity? They're not my employees, I didn't ask them to risk getting infected by not vaccinating. They made the choice to leave their house, they risk getting sick and losing productivity. Sick people are people too, and they deserve just the same rights as healthy people to go out and be social. Your immunity is not my responsibility.

You sound like you feel entitled here. Your rights are your rights as long as they do not tread on the rights of others.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

You sound like you feel entitled here. Your rights are your rights as long as they do not tread on the rights of others.

Progressives like PRB have expanded their list of entitlements. I believe he once made a thread about gay rights, and how it is the right of gays to be married.

[PRB]

You sound like you feel entitled here. Your rights are your rights as long as they do not tread on the rights of others.

We disagree on what counts as "tread on others", you claim it's not my right to put people at "abnormally high" risk. Does that mean I should be arrested for driving drunk before I've hurt anybody?

[PRB]

Progressives like PRB have expanded their list of entitlements. I believe he once made a thread about gay rights, and how it is the right of gays to be married.

Guilty as charged on that issue. I believe gays should have the same rights and privileges as straight people, unless there's a reason they shouldn't. I admit marriage licensing is a government granted privilege, but unless and until you or most are willing to give it up, how can you complain that gays want the same thing?

If you are married and utilize government granted marriage privileges which unmarried or gay people can't have, don't have, you are entitled.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Progressives like PRB...


Guilty as charged on that issue.


Well, at least you admit you're progressive. :) No big deal; liberty embraces all previous paths.

Liberal member 56KTarget once said that this forum is the most tolerant of them all, and he's still here. Glad you're here. ;)

[PRB]

Well, at least you admit you're progressive. :) No big deal; liberty embraces all previous paths.


I believe gays should be as equal as possible in eyes of the law, is that progressive? Or is that what our Constitution and Declaration expect?

I do not advocate for more government, I do however, find people hypocritical when they enjoy government privileges but then condemn their counterparts for wanting the same.



Liberal member 56KTarget once said that this forum is the most tolerant of them all, and he's still here. Glad you're here. ;)

Not familiar with him, don't care one way or the other.

[euphemia]

We disagree on what counts as "tread on others", you claim it's not my right to put people at "abnormally high" risk. Does that mean I should be arrested for driving drunk before I've hurt anybody?

Yes. There is no natural right to consume alcohol. There is no natural right to drive a car. It is illegal to do one and then do the other. And if you are straying out of your lane, driving too fast or too slow, then you have opened yourself to being stopped and arrested.

How on earth do you type with those hoofs?

[PRB]

Yes. There is no natural right to consume alcohol. There is no natural right to drive a car.


We got a statist here!



It is illegal to do one and then do the other. And if you are straying out of your lane, driving too fast or too slow, then you have opened yourself to being stopped and arrested.


Clearly you don't believe in the right to travel, you want cops stopping people left and right checking licenses too? You believe a person should be arrested without hurting anybody??!



How on earth do you type with those hoofs?

Huh?

[euphemia]

I am not a statist. I think you probably are. You want the government to protect your right to do anything you want, with no regard to the rights of others. I think this is kind of sad. The outbreak of measles has now spread to seven states because of one person's selfishness and ignorance.

And yes, if someone is driving unsafely, they should be stopped and ticketed, and perhaps arrested. God gives people the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness/property. There are no natural rights beyond those.

[mosquitobite]

Yeah, I'm just going to point out that regardless what the reason is for these parents not vaccinating,
At no point have I heard anyone in medicine try to address the reasons they don't vaccinate.

It's always crackpot this and religious zealot that... never "well gee, you know what, I guess we really are involved in some massively shitty science with respect to autism, so maybe we ought to stop that and figure out why 1 in 68 kids is now autistic, because if that goes any higher our entire society is going to genuinely collapse, and the parents might actually have weighed that against a statistically insignificant number of measles cases".

Makes me wonder how these jackasses managed to get through 8 years of college.

By addressing their concerns they would have to admit there were concerns. This is blasphemy in the worship of the science god.

There are no concerns. Vaccines are 100% safe and effective for 100% of the population. It's not russian roulette to assume your child will not be affected; it's for the greater good.

[PRB]

Well, I guess we could talk about your voting record. Like your voting for Boxer, Feinstein, and Pelosi.

Never voted for any of the 3. So saying the same lie over and over won't be productive.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

How on earth do you type with those hoofs?



Huh?




https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNxd07Iz0fi9qGkCVcvPnaND0__soNf Po7ouAfKCOalhSFeYSq

[CPUd]

Oh Noes...




Mom: Anti-vaxxers put my baby in quarantine

(CNN)It's an unseasonably warm day in Oakland, California, a perfect morning for Jennifer and Dave Simon to take their baby, Livia, out for a walk. But her stroller sits idle, and Livia is stuck inside the house -- as she has been for nearly a month.

Livia isn't sick, but doctors fear she might become the 53rd person to contract measles in a recent Disneyland outbreak. Now she's in a 28-day quarantine, because of a family that refused to vaccinate their child.

Opinion: Heed the lesson from Disneyland measles outbreak

It started January 2, when the Simons took Livia, who had a cold, to the pediatrician. Two days later, the doctor's office called to say that a child with measles had been in the office that same day.

The Simons feared the worst.

One of the most contagious viruses on Earth, measles can hang in the air or on surfaces for hours. If she'd contracted the disease, Livia could become deaf or even die.

"We were really freaking out and really worried," Jennifer Simon said.

Then the Simons learned from a doctor that the child in the doctor's office had contracted measles because his parents had refused vaccination.

Livia, just 6 months old, is too young to be vaccinated.

"I'm angry," Simon said. "I've been upset that someone else's personal choice has impacted us so much."

In Alameda County, where Simon lives, nine infants were in quarantine as of Tuesday night because of the measles outbreak, a spokeswoman said.

Simon said she hopes families who opt not to immunize their children realize the full impact of their decision.

"Their choice endangered my child," she said.

She points out that vaccine refusers rely on other people to protect their children. It's called herd immunity. If the rest of the community is immune to disease, it helps keep the disease from spreading to those who are unvaccinated.

"You're basically relying on society but not giving back," she said.

Livia's quarantine ends Friday.

http://i.imgur.com/cqnzPpc.jpg

A happy baby, she doesn't seem to mind being at home, but it's disrupted the Simons' life and cost them money, as the couple had to miss work for several days and then bring Jennifer's mother in from Houston to stay home with Livia.

When asked what she would say to parents of the unvaccinated child, she said she would first ask whether their child was doing OK.

Then she would ask them a question: "Hey, you guys, what do you think about vaccines now?"

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/28/health/measles-antivaxxers/index.html

[Zippyjuan]

Shows that choosing to vaccinate or not to vaccinate effects not just those making the decision.

[donnay]

LOL! These articles are truly sad.

This should be the important points:

From the article posted by CPUd:

It started January 2, when the Simons took Livia, who had a cold, to the pediatrician. Two days later, the doctor's office called to say that a child with measles had been in the office that same day.


Livia isn't sick, but doctors fear she might become the 53rd person to contract measles in a recent Disneyland outbreak. Now she's in a 28-day quarantine, because of a family that refused to vaccinate their child.

Twenty-eight days? That seems to be a bit of an overkill. The blanket stated repeated over and over is hilarious too: "...because of a family that refused to vaccinate their child." :rolleyes: Oh those second class citizens--off with their heads!

Symptoms appear about 10-14 days after a person has been in contact with an infected person with measles.

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/rubella/fact_sheet.htm


The usual incubation period for rubella is 14 days; with a range of 12 to 23 days.


Cases are infectious from slightly before the beginning of the prodromal period, usually five days prior to rash onset. They continue to be infectious until four days after the onset of the rash.

So it can be up to 23 days before symptoms show up and you are infectious for up to four days after the rash does develop. That is 27 days.


Measles transmission is airborne by respiratory droplet nuclei spread or it can be transmitted by direct contact with infected nasal or throat secretions. The virus can persist in the environment for up to two hours. Transmission has been reported to people whose only apparent source of infection was a room presumably contaminated with measles virus when it had been occupied by a patient with measles up to two hours earlier.

http://ideas.health.vic.gov.au/bluebook/measles.asp


LOL! These articles are truly sad.

Twenty-eight days? That seems to be a bit of an overkill. The blanket stated repeated over and over is hilarious too: "...because of a family that refused to vaccinate their child." :rolleyes: Oh those second class citizens--off with their heads!

Symptoms appear about 10-14 days after a person has been in contact with an infected person with measles.

Yes, it is that person's fault that this girl has to be kept home for 28 days. For a choice somebody else made for her. Suppose that was your daughter?

[donnay]

Yes, it is that person's fault that this girl has to be kept home for 28 days. For a choice somebody else made for her. Suppose that was your daughter?


I wouldn't have run to the doctor, in the first place, because my daughter had a cold.

[Zippyjuan]

You don't have to go to the doctor. Your kids can get exposed anywhere- the grocery store, the mall, school. And then your kid can make other unvaccinated kids sick who should also be quarantined.

[donnay]

You don't have to go to the doctor. Your kids can get exposed anywhere- the grocery store, the mall, school. And then your kid can make other unvaccinated kids sick who should also be quarantined.

Yeah but she did, and ultimately she was scared into quarantine her daughter--for 28 days.

One of the very reason why a strong immune system is key. Don't forget all those vaccinated kids that shed the very disease they were vaccinated for, and the illegal aliens who are knowingly sick allowed to move about freely in our country.

[Zippyjuan]

Outbreaks of measles in this country come from one hugely dominant source- unvaccinated people leaving the US, visiting countries with low vaccination rates, getting infected, and bringing it home. It isn't from "dirty illegal aliens" running all over the place.

[Weston White]

Now she's in a 28-day quarantine, because of a family that refused to vaccinate their child.

No, she was in quarantine because the doctor's office failed to post a forewarning to their incoming patients. Also if the infected patient was there from two-days prior, it is doubtful the infant would have been infected, because measles is required to be passed either from person to person or by droplet. Infection has a short 8-day window (pre and post rashing) and measles incubates from between 7-21 days.

[silverhandorder]

http://i.imgur.com/KkWARib.png

[Zippyjuan]

No, she was in quarantine because the doctor's office failed to post a forewarning to their incoming patients. Also if the infected patient was there from two-days prior, it is doubtful the infant would have been infected, because measles is required to be passed either from person to person or by droplet. Infection has a short 8-day window (pre and post rashing) and measles incubates from between 7-21 days.


Measles can "hang" in the air up to two hours after an infected person has passed by. That is why it is so highly contageous.

[Weston White]

Measles can "hang" in the air up to two hours after an infected person has passed by. That is why it is so highly contageous.

1. Measles has a lifespan of about two-hours, be it surface or airborne.
2. Measles is not fatal.
3. Two-hours is not anywhere close to 48-hours.

[Zippyjuan]

Actually she was there the same day. Two days later is when she was notified.

[euphemia]

2. Measles is not fatal.


Maybe. They are not good for people who are going through chemo or who have chronic conditions.

And they are definitely not good for a pre-born baby.

Immunity does not last forever. I had both measles and rubella when I was an infant. My prenatal bloodwork showed no immunity to rubella. Fancy that.

[Danke]

People need to start having larger families again. Then they wouldn't be so paranoid about losing one or two.

[PRB]

Maybe. They are not good for people who are going through chemo or who have chronic conditions.

And they are definitely not good for a pre-born baby.

Immunity does not last forever. I had both measles and rubella when I was an infant. My prenatal bloodwork showed no immunity to rubella. Fancy that.

that's proof vaccines are useless and therefore should never been mandated.