Pentagon Confirms US Troops Will Deploy to Ukraine in Spring

[charrob]

Months ago I seem to remember reading that U.S. Special Forces were already in Ukraine 'training' troops. However yesterday there was an article (http://www.euronews.com/2015/01/15/mass-conscription-in-ukraine-to-counter-rise-in-russian-attacks/)stating Ukraine was substantially increasing its conscription rate and was drafting 50,000 additional Ukrainians.

So now with all these new conscripted warriors in Ukraine that need 'training', it appears the regular U.S. military will be deploying to help out...right at Russia's border-- are they insane? :eek:



Pentagon Confirms US Troops Will Deploy to Ukraine in Spring
(http://news.antiwar.com/2015/01/21/pentagon-confirms-us-troops-will-deploy-to-ukraine-in-spring/)

Pentagon Confirms US Troops Will Deploy to Ukraine in Spring
Unknown Number of Troops to Carry Out Training in Lviv

by Jason Ditz, January 21, 2015

US Army commander in Europe Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges visited Ukraine today, as Pentagon officials confirmed plans to send troops to war-torn Ukraine this spring for a “training operation.”

Officials say the number of troops involved has not been determined at this time, and that the troops are part of an effort to strengthen the “rule of law” in the country.

By “rule of law,” they mean getting the Ukrainian military, which is ratcheting up its conscription, ready to crush eastern rebels, who have been demanding reforms after the new government imposed a series of harsh restrictions on the ethnic Russian east.

So far, the plans are to put the troops in Lviv, in the far west, which should keep the US forces from getting too directly into the nation’s civil war, though officials are saying this is just the “first step in further training,” which means more operations could happen, putting troops closer to the frontlines.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Boots on the ground in Ukraine and Syria.
Yemen in 5, 4, 3, 2, ...

'Merika - FUCK YEAH!

-t

[jmdrake]

I remember once upon a time people talking about a "peace dividend" at the end of the Cold War. Oh well.

1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

[Pericles]

I remember once upon a time people talking about a "peace dividend" at the end of the Cold War. Oh well.

1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

I am a living artifact of the "Peace Dividend" along with other surplus material.

[ZENemy]

I dont get what jurisdiction we have in the Ukraine?

oh well, I certainly don't have to fund it.

http://nwtrcc.org/AudioInterviews/

http://www.peacetaxfund.org/

[A Son of Liberty]

I've seen this movie before...

[jllundqu]

When the first US Servicememer is killed (supposedly) by Russian forces, hold on to your hats....


I've seen this movie before...

Yep.... and it usually ends with a false flag where a bunch of Americans get killed and blamed on the Russians for casus belli. Then.... KABOOM! There goes the neighborhood.

[pcosmar]

They go with what works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident

[wizardwatson]

I loved the implied cynicism with respect to the fighting ending.

Russia: "Ukraine needs to remove heavy artillery and stop shelling civilians now and honor the cease fire."

Ukraine/USA: "Looks like we'll need to ramp up the killin' round spring time."

[CaptainAmerica]

United States of Fascism

[jclay2]

While this is not good news on any level, it is good to find out that Lviv is in the WEST and not the east Ukraine.

[HOLLYWOOD]

CFR, FPI, AEI, Brooking, Woodrow Wilson Inst., CSIS, Defense of Democracies, AIPAC, HRW, ECI, & J Street PACS... it's an endless list of Money funneled through these 501c(3) IRS form 990 non profit community advocates. Does anyone think any of these organizations should given non profit status for buying 100% of US foreign policy, while targeting local Tea Party groups of 20-50 people in their county? Above name are the evil string pullers, protected by organizations like the IRS, SPLC, and Capital Hill whores.

Green Day called it 10 years ago and it keeps repeating...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee_uujKuJMI American Idiot

Music Video

"American Idiot" is track #13 on the album American Idiot. It was written by Armstrong, Billie Joe/wright Iii, Frank Edwin/Pritchard, Mike Ryan. The Lyrics:

Don't wanna be an American idiot
Don't want a nation under the new media
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind fuck America

Welcome to a new kind of tension
All across the alien nation
Where everything isn't meant to be okay

Television dreams of tomorrow
We're not the ones who're meant to follow
For that's enough to argue

Well maybe I'm the f****t America
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda
Now everybody do the propaganda
And sing along to the age of paranoia

Welcome to a new kind of tension
All across the alien nation
Where everything isn't meant to be okay

Television dreams of tomorrow
We're not the ones who're meant to follow
For that's enough to argue

Don't want to be an American idiot
One nation controlled by the media
Information age of hysteria
It's going out to idiot America

Welcome to a new kind of tension
All across the alien nation
Where everything isn't meant to be okay

Television dreams of tomorrow
We're not the ones who're meant to follow
For that's enough to argue

[pcosmar]

So,,,
We are officially fighting FOR the Nazis in WWIII. :(

I withdraw my consent.

[The Gold Standard]

I dont get what jurisdiction we have in the Ukraine?

oh well, I certainly don't have to fund it.

http://nwtrcc.org/AudioInterviews/

http://www.peacetaxfund.org/

If you spend U.S. dollars you are funding it. Taxes aren't the only way they get money. They can create it as if from nothing.

[Slave Mentality]

Someone has to spread all the freedom. We are exceptional indeed.

Fighting for the Nazis? It appears that we are the Nazis.

[phill4paul]

If only 5-7% said..."No." We will accept a court martial. It would be enough to set the ball rolling. In a big way.

[AngryCanadian]

Don't worry NovoRussia wont be defeated nor Russia if you War Mongering , bully Yankees want to set the world on fire you came to the right place this wont end badly for Russia.

Russia knows your tactics your country wants to take over Russia with the false promises of protection and stability. I have a feeling the majority in eastern Europe are going to eventually wake up.

You can have the lunatic Lithuanians.

[PredatorOC]

Sadly, Russian agitprop is strong on this forum.

Nazis? Fascism? Seriously? There was an anti-corruption / pro-EU protest on the Maidan, then Russia invades and annexes Crimea, after which Russia invades Eastern Ukraine and now the West are Nazis? Where is the logic in that?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Sadly, Russian agitprop is strong on this forum.

Nazis? Fascism? Seriously? There was an anti-corruption / pro-EU protest on the Maidan, then Russia invades and annexes Crimea, after which Russia invades Eastern Ukraine and now the West are Nazis? Where is the logic in that?

Crimea - major Russian naval base.
Eastern Ukraine - population is loyal to Russia and nukes
Makes complete sense.

Western Ukraine - doesn't really make sense except that they are wanting to join NATO and that puts NATO too close for comfort.

-t

[AngryCanadian]

Sadly, Russian agitprop is strong on this forum.

Nazis? Fascism? Seriously? There was an anti-corruption / pro-EU protest on the Maidan, then Russia invades and annexes Crimea, after which Russia invades Eastern Ukraine and now the West are Nazis? Where is the logic in that?



Really? sounds to me russophobia is strong in here.



the West are Nazis?
The majority of the Ukrankian ministers and party official are members to the fascist nationalists and just recently Kiev during Christmas had a full blown Nazi torch march.


then Russia invades and annexes Crimea
I had no idea McCain's comment about Russia had such strong impact. :rolleyes:



the West are Nazis? Where is the logic in that?
Backing the Ukrankian fascists and supporting Islamist Terrorists is not being fascist is it now?

[AngryCanadian]

Crimea - major Russian naval base.
Eastern Ukraine - population is loyal to Russia and nukes
Makes complete sense.

Western Ukraine - doesn't really make sense except that they are wanting to join NATO and that puts NATO too close for comfort.

-t


Also Westren Ukraine is a hotspot of Ukrankian former fascists and members whom were part of the German Reich during the invasion and occupation of westren ukraine by the fascists.

[PredatorOC]

Crimea - major Russian naval base.
Eastern Ukraine - population is loyal to Russia and nukes
Makes complete sense.

Western Ukraine - doesn't really make sense except that they are wanting to join NATO and that puts NATO too close for comfort.

-t

First off, Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are part of a sovereign nation. It doesn't matter if they had sizeable Russian speaking populations. If ethnic minorities and ancestral lands become a legitimate casus belli in Europe again, then the continent will become a bloodbath once more.

Secondly, Ukraine wanting to join the EU or NATO does not mean they are Nazis or fascists. Hence the absurdity of claiming such things.

[PredatorOC]

Really? sounds to me russophobia is strong in here.

If your definition of russophobia is one where someone opposes one nation invading another, then yes, the russophobia is strong here.


The majority of the Ukrankian ministers and party official are members to the fascist nationalists and just recently Kiev during Christmas had a full blown Nazi torch march.

As the FSB/KGB-paid stooges like to say: where is the evidence?


I had no idea McCain's comment about Russia had such strong impact. :rolleyes:

So Russian troops didn't enter Crimea, hold elections at gun point and then promptly annex Crimea and actually admit to doing so? Are you calling Great Leader Putin a liar?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8AMsRx2jjY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk37sMDbum4


Backing the Ukrankian fascists and supporting Islamist Terrorists is not being fascist is it now?

Calling someone a fascist does not make one a fascist. You actually need to form an argument.

[PredatorOC]

Also Westren Ukraine is a hotspot of Ukrankian former fascists and members whom were part of the German Reich during the invasion and occupation of westren ukraine by the fascists.

Western Ukraine is also a hotspot of Illuminati Lizard UFO activity.

Saying that means it's true, right? I don't have to offer any evidence to back it up, right? This is cool.

[AngryCanadian]

Western Ukraine is also a hotspot of Illuminati Lizard UFO activity.

Saying that means it's true, right? I don't have to offer any evidence to back it up, right? This is cool.

Sounds like you failed history lessons and your response just goes to shows how little you know of Ukraine i am not surprised by this at all. Just like how it was during before the wonderful Yugoslavian intervention.

The less Americans of a region and country and its history the better changes it will for your own American government to pass whatever it pleases.



I don't have to offer any evidence to back it up, right? This is cool.
I do, but whats the point? you seem to be an expert in this filed, next time you might as well just quote McCains we are all Ukrainians.

[PredatorOC]

Insults and misdirection. Is that all you have to support your claims, AngryCanadian?

[AngryCanadian]

If your definition of russophobia is one where someone opposes one nation invading another, then yes, the russophobia is strong here.



As the FSB/KGB-paid stooges like to say: where is the evidence?



So Russian troops didn't enter Crimea, hold elections at gun point and then promptly annex Crimea and actually admit to doing so? Are you calling Great Leader Putin a liar?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8AMsRx2jjY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk37sMDbum4




LOL at the source you posted.

Euromaidan PR

:rolleyes:

Next time your going to post me Syrian Rebel sources as proof of Assad crimes while you are at it.

[QUOTE]Calling someone a fascist does not make one a fascist. You actually need to form an argument.

Posting sources from Euromaidan is like posting sources from the Syrian rebels, Euromaidan PR is reablie as kievpost :rolleyes:



As the FSB/KGB-paid stooges like to say: where is the evidence?
One.
I am not an FSB/KGB-paid stooge, you might as well back away from accusing others of being paid agents to other governments if you dont have evidence to back it up but of course you dont.

I am sure you wouldn't wanted be a called a war monger or a McCain supporter in here or someone that supports American Aggression towards the eastern Ukrankians as you Americans have created the proxy war in Syria to.


I do have the evidences but why bother your probably just going to attack the sources as propaganda.




If your definition of russophobia is one where someone opposes one nation invading another, then yes,

If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine or any other nation they would send more then 6,000 forces.










But hey according to you and your Obama the Ukrankian government are not fascists at all. From now on your an Obama supporter, i fail to see you as someone whom stands up for liberty principals.

Last time i checked liberty minded folks dont support proxy conflicts which you do.

[AngryCanadian]

Oh and this is comical you idiots are still using that RT video of Putin talking the greenmen as Russians? as proof that Russia invaded Ukraine? :rolleyes:


Oh and source on that video is comical.

[AngryCanadian]

Since you wanted proof. You can check out Tore
@potifar66 a freind of mine on there a former journalist has being following Ukraine quite heavily and his in Norway.


His sources will show you just how Democratic and none fascists your Westren Ukrainians are indeed. You American might as well brush up on the Ukrankian history before you continue further on either Syria or Ukraine for that matter.

[AngryCanadian]

Insults and misdirection. Is that all you have to support your claims, AngryCanadian?

1.I have not insulted u other then calling you an McCain supporter and war monger if you arent war monger you wouldn't be supporting the Ukrankian backed NATO government which its members in its minsters are not only fascists but none Ukrankian.

I have being following the crisis in Ukraine for two years and i am still not surprised how you war mongers whom are claiming to be liberty minded are now supporting a government in Ukraine that was brought by the NGO protests.

The same protests that destroyed Libya and the country itself. I found this part comical.


Western Ukraine is also a hotspot of Illuminati Lizard UFO activity.

This shows your true closet minded view point and how clueless either you are being clueless or just defending the nationalists and fascists which westren Ukraine is there stronghold and it has being since both world wars.


Really American Yankee why dont you start taking some history lessons on Ukraine before you start making stupid comments on it eh? oh wait now thanks to the MSM you think you know everything? LOL sure you do.

[AngryCanadian]

Sadly, Russian agitprop is strong on this forum.

Nazis? Fascism? Seriously? There was an anti-corruption / pro-EU protest on the Maidan, then Russia invades and annexes Crimea, after which Russia invades Eastern Ukraine and now the West are Nazis? Where is the logic in that?


According to you and Western MSM/NATO

Syria:Rebels Moderates
Ukraine:Government/Westren Ukraine Peaceful none fascists.

:rolleyes:

[PredatorOC]

LOL at the source you posted.

Euromaidan PR

:rolleyes:

Next time your going to post me Syrian Rebel sources as proof of Assad crimes while you are at it.



Posting sources from Euromaidan is like posting sources from the Syrian rebels, Euromaidan PR is reablie as kievpost :rolleyes:

Notice how you don't actually address the issue at hand, but rather attack the source.

Here, let me repost them, in case you want to address either of them:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8AMsRx2jjY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk37sMDbum4


I am not an FSB/KGB-paid stooge, you might as well back away from accusing others of being paid agents to other governments if you dont have evidence to back it up but of course you dont.

I never said you were. I merely stated that asking for evidence at every claim is a favoured tactic of said stooges. Which isn't incorrect as such, mind you. We should ALL be providing evidence to back up our claims.


I do have the evidences but why bother your probably just going to attack the sources as propaganda.

Depends on the quality of the source. If it's an editorialized "news" piece from RT.com, then that is likely. For example, the links I posted have no outright editorializing. It's just Putin and Lavrov making contradictory claims about Russia's involvement in Ukraine. The other is an armed Russian/pro-Russian soldier standing beside voting booths and checking the vote. If you have something like that to back up your claims, I'm quite eager to hear you out.



Last time i checked liberty minded folks dont support proxy conflicts which you do.

I'm sorry for being rude, but you're out of your mind. What I don't support is a large, armed-to-the-teeth nation invading a poor country. Does that sound familiar?

And what I especially don't like is people calling that poor country fascist and it's populace Nazis for simply trying to defend themselves.

[pcosmar]

Western Ukraine is also a hotspot of Illuminati Lizard UFO activity.

Saying that means it's true, right? I don't have to offer any evidence to back it up, right? This is cool.

Sadly,, I cannot -rep you twice.
but this stupid shit really deserves it.

[PredatorOC]

Another Nazi sympathizer. Go away

It's curious how deeply Russian propaganda has seeped into an ideological movement which is antithetical to Putin's Russia.

Even more curious is that the Nazi smear is mostly meant for the Russian audience, as the Soviet Union used the fear of Nazism and fascism as catch-all propaganda against all things anti-Communist. That same propaganda still resonates in Russia, hence everyone being a fascist and a Nazi. And in addition to Russia, it seems to resonate with the liberty movement, or whatever you can call it at this stage, where it eagerly adopts labels like "fascist" and "Nazi" from RT.com.

But, yes, call me names, ban me, whatever it takes to maintain the integrity of this echo chamber.

Down with the fascists!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sxTbfeYdO0

[The Gold Standard]

When Russia tries to annex Ohio I will be ready to wallow in their blood. Until then, let them fight their own fucking war.

[PredatorOC]

When Russia tries to annex Ohio I will be ready to wallow in their blood. Until then, let them fight their own fucking war.

That's fine. I wasn't calling for US involvement. The issue I have is labeling a people trying to free themselves from the remnants of the Soviet system and defending themselves from invasion by Russia as Nazis and fascists. They're already in war against an enemy better armed than them, they don't need the "liberty" movement stabbing them in the back for the crime of trying to be free.

[pcosmar]

It's curious how deeply Russian propaganda has seeped into


OH BULLSHIT.
I was following this story from well before the Nazi Coup.

It was not "Russian Propaganda",, it was spread across every news service in the fucking world.

It was not unexpected,, but it was disgusting to see our public officials backing this shit.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01498/EuroYobs_01_1498317a.jpg
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/media/119092/svoboda-party-nazi4.jpg
http://cdn.crossmap.com/images/1/62/16261.jpg

It is not surprising to me at all that many people in Ukraine reject this shit and want nothing to do with it.
It is no surprise that they would side with Russia.

Not propaganda,, just common sense.

[pcosmar]

That's fine. I wasn't calling for US involvement. The issue I have is labeling a people trying to free themselves from the remnants of the Soviet system

Bullshit again. This thread is directly about US involvement. Aside from the involvement that instigated the Coup,, but direct involvement with Troops on the Ground.

And the "Soviet System" has not existed since the 80s.
It is now just another socialist country like the rest of Europe. (Just bigger)

[PredatorOC]

OH BULLSHIT.
I was following this story from well before the Nazi Coup.

It was not "Russian Propaganda",, it was spread across every news service in the fucking world.

It was not unexpected,, but it was disgusting to see our public officials backing this shit.

http://i.imgur.com/E45ianB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MPSdPkF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fULdEVD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UuJsZ7d.jpg

It is not surprising to me at all that many people in America reject this shit and want nothing to do with it.
It is no surprise that they would side with Russia.

Not propaganda,, just common sense.

See how easy that is?

In any country you will find some percentage of people who support idiotic shit. Finding them is a trivial task. Showing that these people actually run the government, and hence warrant the entire country being called "fascist" or "Nazi" is an entirely different matter. Failing to do so and continuing to call them fascist and Nazis is called a guilt by association fallacy, which is another tactic greatly favored by the left.

[PredatorOC]

Bullshit again. This thread is directly about US involvement.

No, we've been discussing whether Ukrainians are Nazis and fascists.


And the "Soviet System" has not existed since the 80s.

Actually it has. Or, more precisely, it's logical continuation. See, when the Soviet Union collapsed, state-owned property was more or less transferred to the state bureaucrats. That's where the oligarchs come from. That's where Putin's power comes from. That is what the Ukrainian revolution was about.

[AuH20]

No, we've been discussing whether Ukrainians are Nazis and fascists.



Actually it has. Or, more precisely, it's logical continuation. See, when the Soviet Union collapsed, state-owned property was more or less transferred to the state bureaucrats. That's where the oligarchs come from. That's where Putin's power comes from. That is what the Ukrainian revolution was about.

This entire phony Ukrainian revolution has been seeded and financed by the likes of ruthless oligarchs like George Soros. It has little to do with escaping from the 'evil' tentacles of Putin. The West has brought war to the doorsteps of Russia largely because of currency primacy and territorial control of Western Europe. Nothing less, nothing more. Anyone with a clear understanding of the geopolitical affairs in this world can see this for what it is.

[AuH20]

Sadly, Russian agitprop is strong on this forum.

Nazis? Fascism? Seriously? There was an anti-corruption / pro-EU protest on the Maidan, then Russia invades and annexes Crimea, after which Russia invades Eastern Ukraine and now the West are Nazis? Where is the logic in that?

You haven't read about the recruitment mobs in Western Ukraine? For all able bodied males, it's either pay the $1000 extortion fee to rip up the draft card or you're their property.

[PredatorOC]

This entire phony Ukrainian revolution has been seeded and financed by the likes of ruthless oligarchs like George Soros. It has little to do with escaping from the 'evil' tentacles of Putin. The West has brought war to the doorsteps of Russia largely because of currency primacy and territorial control of Western Europe. Nothing less, nothing more. Anyone with a clear understanding of the geopolitical affairs in this world can see this for what it is.

1. What do you base this on?

2. Does this make Ukrainians Nazis and fascists?

[PredatorOC]

You haven't read about the recruitment mobs in Western Ukraine? For all able bodied males, it's either pay the $1000 extortion fee to rip up the draft card or you're their property.

Do you happen to have a reliable source for this information?

[pcosmar]

. See, when the Soviet Union collapsed, state-owned property was more or less transferred to the state bureaucrats. That's where the oligarchs come from.

You are so full of shit.
The old Soviet Union was an Oligarchy. The United States is an Oligarchy. (communism is a Red Herring)
The Oligarchs have been around for well over 100 years..

[PredatorOC]

You are so full of shit.
The old Soviet Union was an Oligarchy. The United States is an Oligarchy. (communism is a Red Herring)
The Oligarchs have been around for well over 100 years..

You JUST said that the Soviet system hasn't existed since the 80's, but now the Soviet system was an oligarchy all along? Your argument is confusing.

[pcosmar]

Does this make Ukrainians Nazis and fascists?

Not all of them,, Many oppose them.. What makes them Nazi is that they are Nationalist Socialists.
The name "Nazi" Is for National Socialism.
The fact that many side with and revere the German Nazis is but a side note. (They had a huge parade for one,,when this all kicked off)

http://real-agenda.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Untitled-1-685x300.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CMQJlqi1A30/VBMDDjGxK-I/AAAAAAAAHTE/bzFUrDepaXw/s1600/UkraineNazi.jpg

It disgusts me that the US is supporting this shit. It does not surprise me.. but it disgusts me.

[PredatorOC]

Again, all you have to offer are pictures with no context and certainly no evidence that warrants calling Ukrainians as a whole, or even a large portion of Ukrainians, Nazis and fascists.

[PredatorOC]

http://i.imgur.com/WU4OTjf.jpg

RON PAUL IS A NAZI FASCIST!

YOU'RE ALL NAZI FASCISTS!

Is this how it works?

[pcosmar]

You JUST said that the Soviet system hasn't existed since the 80's, but now the Soviet system was an oligarchy all along? Your argument is confusing.

The Soviet Union was an Oligarchy. It had a ruling party. The USSR was not (and never was) communist.
It called itself that.. but it never was. Communism can not exist as a political system..

it would by definition be the absence of any political system.. because it would need NO leaders or rulers..
People would all work toward the common goals.

It is so contrary to human nature that it will not ever exist,, and it has not ever existed outside of philosophical fantasy.

Communism is a boogieman that has never been any real threat. The old USSR was a socialist Dictatorship.. Run by a few,, a group. (Oligarchy)

[pcosmar]

Again, all you have to offer are pictures with no context and certainly no evidence that warrants calling Ukrainians as a whole, or even a large portion of Ukrainians, Nazis and fascists.

Did not say that all Ukrainians were. Some are,, and they stole power through Violence,,(backed by the US and others)

There are many fighting them. Rejecting them.

[presence]

Fuck the Ukraine and Fuck Russia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3_EXqJ8f-0


US Boots should NEVER LEAVE US SOIL.

/END THREAD.

[PredatorOC]

Did not say that all Ukrainians were. Some are,, and they stole power through Violence,,(backed by the US and others)

There are many fighting them. Rejecting them.

You do understand that the composition of the Ukrainian parliament is essentially the same as before the Maidan, right? The only person who was ousted was the president who gave an order to shoot on propestors, Victor Yanukovych. Was Yanukovych the last bulwark against the Nazi fascists in the Ukrainian parliament? What EXACTLY is your reasoning for these people being Nazis and fascists?

[pcosmar]

What EXACTLY is your reasoning for these people being Nazis and fascists?

http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2014_37/656601/140909-ukraine-nazi-02_63a0fd5c7a717bba6d7b7d5b090d91b2.nbcnews-ux-800-280.jpg


The video was shot last week in Ukraine by a camera team from Norwegian broadcaster TV2. “We were filming a report about Ukraine’s AZOV battalion in the eastern city of Urzuf, when we came across these soldiers,” Oysten Bogen, a correspondent for the private television station, told NBC News. Minutes before the images were taped, Bogen said he had asked a spokesperson whether the battalion had fascist tendencies. “The reply was: absolutely not, we are just Ukrainian nationalists,” Bogen said.

Ukrainian nationalists. (Nazis)

Why do you support National Socialism?

[pcosmar]

US Boots should NEVER LEAVE US SOIL.

/END THREAD.

I agree..
Nor should we meddle in the internal affairs of other countries by other means.

[PredatorOC]

http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2014_37/656601/140909-ukraine-nazi-02_63a0fd5c7a717bba6d7b7d5b090d91b2.nbcnews-ux-800-280.jpg


Ukrainian nationalists. (Nazis)

Why do you support National Socialism?

Once more, you have some pictures of individuals, which you conflate to be representative of an entire nation.

And nationalism ≠ national socialism.

Also nationalism ≠ fascism.

If you intend to keep claiming that Ukrainians are Nazis and fascists, you need to show that Nazis and the fascist ideology play a crucial role in the government of Ukraine. Posting pictures of individuals does not make Ukrainians any more fascist than that Don Black picture makes Ron Paul a racist.

Or are you calling Ron Paul a racist?

[AuH20]

1. What do you base this on?

2. Does this make Ukrainians Nazis and fascists?

Wayne Madsen touched on this 2 years ago. Do you really think this has anything to do with giving the Ukrainians freedom? I really wish their revolution was organic and focused on true independence but it's not:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article181535.html


Ukraine, which resisted efforts by the European Union to integrate it into Europe’s banker-led federation of austerity and poverty, came into the EU’s cross hairs after it abandoned an «Association Agreement» pact with the EU. Instead, Kyiv opted for a more lucrative economic union with Russia. That move triggered off a mass street uprising in Kyiv’s Maidan (Independence) Square that demanded the resignation of Ukraine’s democratically-elected President and government.

The connections between the Kyiv uprising and the EU outside manipulators are so apparent, the Kyiv square that has become the «Tahrir Square» of Ukraine is called «Euromaidan.» The initial Tahrir Square uprising in Cairo, which overthrew Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, was partly manipulated by Soros-financed and Sharp-influenced street demonstrators who took their cues from professional political agitators hastily flown into Egypt from the United States and Europe.

The latest professionally-agitated spectacle in Kyiv’s was spearheaded by the same Soros/Sharp/National Endowment for Democracy/CIA hydra that saw the overthrow of Ukraine’s government in 2004 in the so-called Orange Revolution. This time, not only is Ukrainian President Yanukovych, but ultimately Russian President Vladimir Putin, are the targets… [2]

Nuland, who is married to the neocon Robert Kagan, handed out snacks to protesters on Maidan Square. Imagine the reaction of the United States had a second-tier official of either the Russian or Chinese foreign ministry handed out food to Occupy Wall Street protesters in Washington and urged them to overthrow, by force if necessary, President Obama. Yet, that is exactly the scenario Nuland engaged in by supporting protesters in Maidan. Furthermore, she reprimanded Yanokovych for the heavy security presence in Maidan. Nuland and Kerry, who also upbraided Yanukovych, forgot the acts of police brutality committed by U.S. cops against occupy protesters, as well as a plan by the FBI to use snipers to assassinate the leaders of the group.



2. Does this make Ukrainians Nazis and fascists?

I believe the ultra-nationalists in the Ukraine are being used as the violent pawns in all of this. They are the sandpaper element in Ukraine.

[PredatorOC]

Wayne Madsen touched on this 2 years ago. Do you really think this has anything to do with giving the Ukrainians freedom? I really wish their revolution was organic and focused on true independence but it's not:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article181535.html

The only substantive evidence of US involvement was "Nuland, who is married to the neocon Robert Kagan, handed out snacks to protesters on Maidan Square."

The rest were guilt by association speculation.

I'm not saying it's impossible that there was official US involvement, but you have to accept that there isn't much evidence for it.


I believe the ultra-nationalists in the Ukraine are being used as the violent pawns in all of this. They are the sandpaper element in Ukraine.

Nationalists on BOTH sides are fighting, Russian AND Ukrainian. I'll accept that. But if that is all that qualifies for a nation to be Nazi fascist, then why isn't Russia Nazi fascist? Or, better yet, why call anyone a Nazi or a fascist unless they are actually Nazis or fascists? Why not accept that nationalist fervor is going to stir during a war and that a few individuals cannot be used to characterize an entire nation?

[pcosmar]

Once more, you have some pictures of individuals, which you conflate to be representative of an entire nation.


No.. I don't.
There is a civil War there. There are many fighting these NAZIS.
Crimea left,, for good cause. other provinces are at war..
Many Ukrainians oppose this shit.. so no,, I do not think ALL Ukrainians are Nazis.

Some, a great many oppose them.
So we are going to send troops to kill them.

[AuH20]

The only substantive evidence of US involvement was "Nuland, who is married to the neocon Robert Kagan, handed out snacks to protesters on Maidan Square."

The rest were guilt by association speculation.

I'm not saying it's impossible that there was official US involvement, but you have to accept that there isn't much evidence for it.



There is plenty of evidence if you know where to find it. This has been going on for awhile.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/17843-george-soros-s-giant-globalist-footprint-in-ukraine-s-turmoil



Many of the participants in Kiev’s “EuroMaidan” demonstrations were members of Soros-funded NGOs and/or were trained by the same NGOs in the many workshops and conferences sponsored by Soros’ International Renaissance Foundation (IRF), and his various Open Society institutes and foundations. The IRF, founded and funded by Soros, boasts that it has given “more than any other donor organization” to “democratic transformation” of Ukraine.

The International Renaissance Foundation’s Annual Report for 2012, the latest available, states that, “IRF provided UAH 63 million in funding to civil society organizations — more than any other donor organization working in this field in Ukraine.” The “UAH” reference used above refers to the Ukraine Hryvnia, Ukraine’s currency, which is worth about 0.11 $US, or 11 cents in U.S. currency. That translates into roughly $6.7 million that IRF provided to Ukrainian groups in 2012; not a huge sum, by comparison to many other political and social campaigns, but more than merely “significant.” In the cash-starved Ukraine, Soros’s dollars go a long way toward seducing and co-opting all legitimate political opposition into the Soros-approved “progressive” camp.

According to the IRF’s own website, this one Soros conduit has funneled over $100 million into Ukrainian NGOs over the years:

Over the period from 1990 to 2010 the International Renaissance Foundation provided more than $100 million in support to numerous Ukrainian non-government organizations (NGOs), community groups, academic and cultural institutions, publishing houses, etc.


I'm shocked we have people blindly take the side of Soros and the internationalists in all this. Imagine if the Russian government actively fomented a color revolution in Ottawa or Toronto? Do you think we would be amused? I would be irate.

[PredatorOC]

No.. I don't.
There is a civil War there. There are many fighting these NAZIS.
Crimea left,, for good cause. other provinces are at war..
Many Ukrainians oppose this shit.. so no,, I do not think ALL Ukrainians are Nazis.

Some, a great many oppose them.
So we are going to send troops to kill them.

Please provide evidence of Nazis playing a crucial role in the functioning of the Ukrainian government.

[PredatorOC]

I'm shocked we have people blindly take the side of Soros and the internationalists in all this. Imagine if the Russian government actively fomented a color revolution in Ottawa or Toronto? Do you think we would be amused? I would be irate.

First off, Soros is not the American government nor the American people. If Soros funds something, it is not the same as the CIA or some other American agency being involved (which seems to be the implied connection).

Secondly, you are essentially excusing a military invasion of a sovereign country based only on Russia seeing it as a part of its sphere of influence. By this same logic, the US is in fact justified invading countries that it sees as being in its sphere of influence. I point this out because it's odd to demand that the US not intervene globally, but at the same time excuse Russia (and even assist Russia in smearing the target of their invasion) doing the same.

[AngryCanadian]

Please provide evidence of Nazis playing a crucial role in the functioning of the Ukrainian government.


I already told you whom to check out for the least on Ukraine.

[AngryCanadian]

First off, Soros is not the American government nor the American people. If Soros funds something, it is not the same as the CIA or some other American agency being involved (which seems to be the implied connection).

Secondly, you are essentially excusing a military invasion of a sovereign country based only on Russia seeing it as a part of its sphere of influence. By this same logic, the US is in fact justified invading countries that it sees as being in its sphere of influence. I point this out because it's odd to demand that the US not intervene globally, but at the same time excuse Russia (and even assist Russia in smearing the target of their invasion) doing the same.



I am seeing this right?

Your saying that America US is in fact justified invading countries that it sees as being in its sphere of influence but yet when Russia wants to protect its own interests and Ukrainians in general that somehow is an invasion?

[AuH20]

First off, Soros is not the American government nor the American people. If Soros funds something, it is not the same as the CIA or some other American agency being involved (which seems to be the implied connection).

Secondly, you are essentially excusing a military invasion of a sovereign country based only on Russia seeing it as a part of its sphere of influence. By this same logic, the US is in fact justified invading countries that it sees as being in its sphere of influence. I point this out because it's odd to demand that the US not intervene globally, but at the same time excuse Russia (and even assist Russia in smearing the target of their invasion) doing the same.

My opinion is the similar to that of the Monroe Doctrine. Stop interfering in Russia's backyard. I wouldn't like it if the Russians were doing it to one of our neighbors. I could understand if Russia was actively sabotaging in the Basque region of France but Crimea is basically their property per historical standards & close proximity.

[AuH20]

I am seeing this right?

Your saying that America US is in fact justified invading countries that it sees as being in its sphere of influence but yet when Russia wants to protect its own interests and Ukrainians in general that somehow is an invasion?


The problem with the U.S. is that it foolishly thinks that the entire globe is considered it's sphere of influence. Talk about pure hubris which runs in direct contract to the founding documents.

[acptulsa]

My opinion is the similar to that of the Monroe Doctrine. Stop interfering in Russia's backyard. I wouldn't like it if the Russians were doing it to one of our neighbors. I could understand if Russia was actively sabotaging in the Basque region of France but Crimea is basically their property per historical standards & close proximity.

That's not the point. The point is, Russia didn't appear to be interfering until after the EU and the CIA did.

What the obsessive-compulsive predator is saying is that the neighbor who never interferes with what goes on next door until some stranger comes into the neighborhood and breaks in is wrong, and the burglar is right. Or, at least, if the burglar has no right to break in, then the neighbor has no right to stop the burglar. Or something equally nonsensical...

Or, to put another way, in the eyes of the obsessive compulsive predator, to fail to maintain a double standard is to leave yourself open to charges of maintaining a double standard.

[jmdrake]

First off, Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are part of a sovereign nation. It doesn't matter if they had sizeable Russian speaking populations. If ethnic minorities and ancestral lands become a legitimate casus belli in Europe again, then the continent will become a bloodbath once more.

Secondly, Ukraine wanting to join the EU or NATO does not mean they are Nazis or fascists. Hence the absurdity of claiming such things.

I'm going to assume everything you're saying is correct. And the reason we should send U.S. troops into this mess is because of what exactly? Oh yeah. Make the world "safe for democracy" and have a "war to end wars." Where have I heard that one before?

[jmdrake]

First off, Soros is not the American government nor the American people. If Soros funds something, it is not the same as the CIA or some other American agency being involved (which seems to be the implied connection).

Secondly, you are essentially excusing a military invasion of a sovereign country based only on Russia seeing it as a part of its sphere of influence. By this same logic, the US is in fact justified invading countries that it sees as being in its sphere of influence. I point this out because it's odd to demand that the US not intervene globally, but at the same time excuse Russia (and even assist Russia in smearing the target of their invasion) doing the same.

Okay. Am I reading you right? So in order to not justify the U.S. intervening in other countries we have to support the U.S. intervening in Ukraine? If you want to spend your own money and raise your own private army to help the Ukranians, I don't care. Just don't draw me into WW III.

[jmdrake]

//

[AuH20]

I'm going to assume everything you're saying is correct. And the reason we should send U.S. troops into this mess is because of what exactly? Oh yeah. Make the world "safe for democracy" and have a "war to end wars." Where have I heard that one before?

I thnk most on this forum would be classified as anti-NWO as opposed to pro-Russian. This isn't my country anymore. I am keenly aware of that. The goal is to use the U.S. as the vehicle for world domination and then destroy her afterwards.

[juleswin]

These are the people trying to "free" themselves according to PredatorOC


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqno-2NeaKk

Russian propaganda people like him would prefer you not see.

[jmdrake]

First off, Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are part of a sovereign nation. It doesn't matter if they had sizeable Russian speaking populations. If ethnic minorities and ancestral lands become a legitimate casus belli in Europe again, then the continent will become a bloodbath once more.

Secondly, Ukraine wanting to join the EU or NATO does not mean they are Nazis or fascists. Hence the absurdity of claiming such things.

Actually, looking at the history, Crimea's claims of independence from Ukraine is as strong as Ukraine's claim of independence from Russia. Crimea wasn't really part of Ukraine until Russia "gave" Crimea to Ukraine in 1954.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/27/to-understand-crimea-take-a-look-back-at-its-complicated-history/
Like much much of the Eastern Front, Crimea's experience in World War II was incredibly traumatic: It was occupied by Nazi Germany, and the port city of Sevastopol was almost destroyed in the fighting. Once the Red Army retook Crimea in 1944, it forcibly deported the entire population of Crimean Tatars to Central Asia as punishment for collaboration with German forces. Almost half are believed to have died along the way. The Tatars, who had been on the peninsula for centuries, were not allowed to return to Crimea until the end of Soviet Union. They wouldn't forget their hardships, however.

With the Crimean Tatars deported from the peninsula, along with large numbers of Greeks and Armenians, Crimea was a very Russian place. Then, in 1954, something unusual happened: Russia gave it to Ukraine.

[AngryCanadian]

First off, Soros is not the American government nor the American people. If Soros funds something, it is not the same as the CIA or some other American agency being involved (which seems to be the implied connection).

Secondly, you are essentially excusing a military invasion of a sovereign country based only on Russia seeing it as a part of its sphere of influence. By this same logic, the US is in fact justified invading countries that it sees as being in its sphere of influence. I point this out because it's odd to demand that the US not intervene globally, but at the same time excuse Russia (and even assist Russia in smearing the target of their invasion) doing the same.



About your other point.


Secondly, Ukraine wanting to join the EU or NATO does not mean they are Nazis or fascists. Hence the absurdity of claiming such things.
Due to the fact that the majority of westren ukraine and Ukrainians in west are and had ties with the German Reich during WW2 its clear why they want to be closer with NATO and EU.

Thats because of its past. You need to improve alot more when it comes to history.

[devil21]

That's fine. I wasn't calling for US involvement. The issue I have is labeling a people trying to free themselves from the remnants of the Soviet system and defending themselves from invasion by Russia as Nazis and fascists. They're already in war against an enemy better armed than them, they don't need the "liberty" movement stabbing them in the back for the crime of trying to be free.

If American MSM decries a foreign country and their leader as being an evil-doer invader type (Russia in this case) then it's generally a safe bet to assume the opposite is the truth. For me, it's that simple. ymmv

Remember when Russia "invaded" Georgia? Ooops, media got that wrong too.

[Peace Piper]

The only substantive evidence of US involvement was "Nuland, who is married to the neocon Robert Kagan, handed out snacks to protesters on Maidan Square."

The rest were guilt by association speculation.

I'm not saying it's impossible that there was official US involvement, but you have to accept that there isn't much evidence for it.

"Snacks" and $5 BILLION DOLLARS and most of the dumbed down zombified American people can't even demand an audit.

Here's the NeoCon woman boasting of it- standing in front of a Chevron logo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY

How do YOU think this $5 BILLION DOLLARS was blown?

Here's someone that doesn't care- Joe Biden's kid Hunter, kicked out of the Navy for Drugs (daddy created the Drug Czar!) Now look- he's "director" of Ukraine's largest Fracking company!!!

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5372698369bedde166b5a612-512-384/hunter-biden.jpeg

If you got kicked out of the Navy for "drugs" do you think you'd end up as a director of Ukraine's largest gas company?

http://i.imgur.com/kDiY0H9.jpg
Rice and Nuland (Wife of PNAC Co-Founder) trade "snack" recipes

That's Condoleeza Rice, the woman that Chevron named an oil tanker after

https://iaincarstairs.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/condo-tanker.jpg?w=640&h=482

[Suzanimal]

Video in German.

German media reports Blackwater mercenaries working in Ukraine



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9R5UEVMJHE

Phoenix mission mentioned. American Blackwater mercenary involvement and speaks plainly about geopolitical context and US-NATO strategy in Ukraine and the risk of a major war. Even in governing the fascists in Kiev

Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=135_1421949449#VYU37v8q7SCICH7s.99


From the comments:

He talks about 500 mercenaries form the company formerly known as Blackwater are fighting on the Junta´s side.
That would be very dangerous, as this would mean an escalation, and therefore the EU is not amused and are not on the side of the US any more.
He blames the Eu politicians they just asked Moscow to change their politics
and not Ukraine, but he also said this is just a matter of time, as the EU has enough of playing US and Ukraine´s game.

[pcosmar]

See how easy that is?



YUP..
And now those American Nazi Phucks are in a Russian Prison awaiting execution for Crimes against Humanity. Some stupid Brit Mercs too.

I have no sympathy for them.

[Pauls' Revere]

Western Ukraine is also a hotspot of Illuminati Lizard UFO activity.

Saying that means it's true, right? I don't have to offer any evidence to back it up, right? This is cool.

A simple Google search:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskommissariat_Ukraine#:~:text=The%20Nazi%20ex termination%20policy%20in,the%20occupation%3B%20ot her%20sources%20estimate

Reichskommissariat Ukraine

During World War II, Reichskommissariat Ukraine (abbreviated as RKU) was the civilian occupation regime (Reichskommissariat) of much of Nazi German-occupied Ukraine (which included adjacent areas of modern-day Belarus and pre-war Second Polish Republic). It was governed by the Reich Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories headed by Alfred Rosenberg. Between September 1941 and August 1944, the Reichskommissariat was administered by Erich Koch as the Reichskommissar. The administration's tasks included the pacification of the region and the exploitation, for German benefit, of its resources and people. Adolf Hitler issued a Führer Decree defining the administration of the newly occupied Eastern territories on 17 July 1941.[2]

Before the German invasion, Ukraine was a constituent republic of the Soviet Union, inhabited by Ukrainians with Russian, Polish, Jewish, Belarusian, German, Romani and Crimean Tatar minorities. It was a key subject of Nazi planning for the post-war expansion of the German state. The Nazi extermination policy in Ukraine, with the help of local Ukrainian collaborators,[3] ended the lives of millions of civilians in The Holocaust and other Nazi mass killings: it is estimated 900,000 to 1.6 million Jews and 3[4] to 4[5] million non-Jewish Ukrainians were killed during the occupation; other sources estimate that 5.2 million Ukrainian civilians (of all ethnic groups) perished due to crimes against humanity, war-related disease, and famine amounting to more than 12% of Ukraine's population at the time.[6]

[Pauls' Revere]

Since 2015?

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2015/01/21/us-trainers-to-deploy-to-ukraine/

The American training effort comes as part of a US State Department initiative "to assist Ukraine in strengthening its law enforcement capabilities, conduct internal defense, and maintain rule of law" Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. Vanessa Hillman told Defense News.

After meeting with commander of the Ukrainian Armed Forces Lt. Gen. Anatoliy Pushnyakov and acting commander of the National Guard Lt. Gen. Oleksandr Kryvyenko during his visit, Hodges said he was "impressed by the readiness of both military and civil leadership to change and reform."

The training was requested by the Ukrainian government "as they work to reform their police forces and establish their newly formed National Guard," Hillman added. Funding for the initiative is coming from the congressionally-authorized Global Security Contingency Fund (GSCF), which was requested by the Obama administration in the fiscal 2015 budget to help train and equip the armed forces of allies around the globe.

The training mission has been the subject of plenty of discussion among US policy makers for months, and the United States has already earmarked $19 million to help build the Ukrainian National Guard.

"We're very open to the idea that this becomes a first step in further training for the Ukrainian military," Derek Chollet, former assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs, told Defense News just before he left the Pentagon on Jan. 17.

He was quick to add that he doesn't anticipate that this training mission "will require significant US presence."

The mission comes at a time of increasing concern among Eastern European countries that Russian aggression in the region will increase, and as fighting around the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk between government forces and Russian-backed separatist rebels rages on.

[pcosmar]

Since 2015?

2014 ,, that I have been actively watching.

there is another old thread I'm sure.

[Pauls' Revere]

2014 ,, that I have been actively watching.

there is another old thread I'm sure.

Thanks, and probably during and before the Maidan Revolution.