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Okaloosa
01-20-2015, 12:30 AM
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/jeb-bush-donors-2016-election-113614.html

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Four leading Republican presidential prospects are expected to appear this weekend
in the California desert before an exclusive gathering of rich conservatives convened
by the Koch brothers’ political operation, several sources tell POLITICO.
Sens. Ted Cruz of Texas, Rand Paul ofKentucky and Marco Rubio of Florida, and Gov.
Scott Walker ofWisconsin, received coveted invitations to speak to the vaunted
network assembled by the billionaire industrialist mega-donors Charles and David
Koch, the sources said.
The meeting, set to be held at a Palm Springs hotel, is the annual winter gathering of
Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce, the nonprofit group that oversees the
network offiscally conservative groups formed with help from the Kochs and their
operatives.

None ofthe White House prospects invited to the meeting this weekend responded
to questions about whether they planned to attend and, if so, what they planned to
discuss. A spokesman for Freedom Partners declined to comment on the function,
which is closed to the press.
It comes at a pivotal time for both the Koch network, which has become increasingly
involved in partisan politics, and for the sprawling Republican presidential
field, which some party insiders fear could be headed for a chaotic and costly
primary.
Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney, both of whom are eyeing runs oftheir own, are
considered the favorites of rich Republican donors from the party’s
establishment wing, who traditionally have exerted great sway over presidential
nominating fights.
But neither is necessarily a perfect fit for the donors and operatives in the Kochs’
expanding donor network, where small government, free market policies tend to be
valued over aggressive stances on military intervention or social issues. That
could present an opening for prospective presidential hopefuls who have emphasized
fiscal issues more than foreign policy, like Paul, Walker and Indiana Gov. Mike
Pence. Pence is not expected in Palm Springs this weekend. But he has spoken at past
gatherings and is considered a favorite of the Kochs’ allies, as is Walker, whose
fight against his state’s public employee unions over collective bargaining
rights made him something of a test case for the expansion ofthe Koch network and
its most robust political arm, Americans for Prosperity.
Stan Hubbard, a billionaire Minnesota media mogul and mega-donor who has
attended Koch donor gatherings, but is not headed to Palm Springs, called Walker “a
hell of a good man.” Yet, Hubbard also had positive things to say about Bush, a
former Florida governor (“a really nice guy”) and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (“a
good communicator”), while dismissing Romney, a former Massachusetts governor,
as “a terrible candidate,” and questioning whether Cruz or Paul could win a general
election.
“What scares me is the ultra-right-wing people – which I would be, but you can’t get
elected being ultra-right-wing – so what scares me is them screwing it up by
supporting someone like the senator from Texas,” said Hubbard of Cruz. “I mean,
forget it.”
Cruz and Rubio have staked out aggressive foreign policy stances that in some ways
seem out of step with the more non-interventionist ofthe Koch network’s donors.
But they’re also seen as unlikely to be able to keep up with Bush or Romney when it
comes to corralling support from more hawkish mega-donors in the GOP’s Wall
Street or country club wings.

Major donors are expected to play an outsized role in the 2016 presidential election,
especially in the primaries, thanks partly to a pair of 2010 federal court rulings that
paved the way for super PACs that can accept unlimited checks to support
candidates.
While the Kochs’ operation has stayed out of GOP primaries, the possibility ofits
donors or groups backing a candidate in the 2016 GOP presidential primary has
tantalized the political class.
The 2012 general election marked the first time that AFP aired ads expressly
opposing a candidate — President Barack Obama. AFP went on to spend heavily on
ads attacking Democratic Senate candidates in the run-up to the 2014 midterms, and
was credited with helping Republicans capture the Senate. All told, the groups in
the Koch network combined to spend about $290 million ahead ofthe midterms.
The Freedom Partners donor meetings – which started in 2003 and are now held
twice a year – are central to the expansion ofthe Koch network. Dubbed “seminars”
within Koch circles, they bring together dozens of conservative business leaders from
across the country – including a healthy contingent ofheartland industrialists like
the Kochs – for three days of presentations from top conservative politicians,
operatives and thought leaders, including American Enterprise Institute President
Arthur Brooks, pundit Erick Erickson and pollster Frank Luntz.

The seminars typically conclude with a fundraising session of sorts where donors
pledge donations that can reach into the seven figures to support policy and political
efforts discussed during the seminars. Freedom Partners, which was formed in late
2011, disseminates the cash among a host of groups in the network.
There’s a lot of discussion among donors and strategists within the Koch operation
about whether to wade into the Republican presidential primary, according to an
operative familiar with the operation.
“These funders just had a very successful cycle and I imagine some of the folks want
to go for the big enchilada,” said the operative, asserting the Koch network could
have a major impact on the presidential race ifit decided to engage heavily. “They are
the most sophisticated operation, which would be a huge asset” for Republicans.

TaftFan
01-20-2015, 01:09 AM
By any indication, Rand should be the top candidate of the Kochs, followed by Cruz.

Inkblots
01-20-2015, 08:19 AM
By any indication, Rand should be the top candidate of the Kochs, followed by Cruz.

If they can swallow their pride, maybe. They still despise Ron for backing up Rothbard against them back when he split from Cato in the early '80s.

Of course, if they can't swallow their pride and back a Paul for president, all their millions of spending over the years will have been as useless as a marzipan truncheon, but people aren't always terribly wise or rational. And that goes double when it comes to politics.

Krugminator2
01-20-2015, 03:55 PM
If they can swallow their pride, maybe. They still despise Ron for backing up Rothbard against them back when he split from Cato in the early '80s.

Of course, if they can't swallow their pride and back a Paul for president, all their millions of spending over the years will have been as useless as a marzipan truncheon, but people aren't always terribly wise or rational. And that goes double when it comes to politics.


"When Mr. Paul met with the elder Mr. Koch in Wichita, the two spoke about foreign policy — where Mr. Paul’s less hawkish approach most closely dovetails with the brothers’ personal views — and the senator’s ideas for overhauling the criminal justice system, another area where he and the libertarian-leaning Kochs align, according to someone with knowledge of the meeting who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a private conversation.

Mr. Paul has also golfed with Charles. (“I remember Rand said Charles had beat him pretty handily,” said a friend.) And Mr. Paul also shares a bond with Charles’s son, Chase. Once, when Chase introduced Mr. Paul at an event, he began by talking about how he, too, could empathize with the pressures of growing up the son of a prominent libertarian and having to read Hegel and Ludwig von Mises.


Taking the microphone, Mr. Paul joked, “But did you get to read it in English?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/us/koch-seminar-is-early-proving-ground-for-gop-hopefuls.html"

It seems like Charles Koch is more on board with Rand. Even if he doesn't care for Ron Paul or Rothbard personally, Charles Koch was an ancap at one time and he paid Murray Rothbard to write books in the 70's.

rich34
01-21-2015, 10:16 AM
"When Mr. Paul met with the elder Mr. Koch in Wichita, the two spoke about foreign policy — where Mr. Paul’s less hawkish approach most closely dovetails with the brothers’ personal views — and the senator’s ideas for overhauling the criminal justice system, another area where he and the libertarian-leaning Kochs align, according to someone with knowledge of the meeting who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a private conversation.

Mr. Paul has also golfed with Charles. (“I remember Rand said Charles had beat him pretty handily,” said a friend.) And Mr. Paul also shares a bond with Charles’s son, Chase. Once, when Chase introduced Mr. Paul at an event, he began by talking about how he, too, could empathize with the pressures of growing up the son of a prominent libertarian and having to read Hegel and Ludwig von Mises.


Taking the microphone, Mr. Paul joked, “But did you get to read it in English?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/us/koch-seminar-is-early-proving-ground-for-gop-hopefuls.html"

It seems like Charles Koch is more on board with Rand. Even if he doesn't care for Ron Paul or Rothbard personally, Charles Koch was an ancap at one time and he paid Murray Rothbard to write books in the 70's.


Damn, can you imagine these guys donating for a couple of Rand's money bombs???? Could make even Ron's biggest haul look like chump change. I know, I'll believe when I see it, but if they do....

CaptUSA
01-21-2015, 10:45 AM
If they can swallow their pride, maybe. They still despise Ron for backing up Rothbard against them back when he split from Cato in the early '80s.


I would say that Rand more closely aligns with Cato libertarianism than he does with Rothbardian. In any case, that is just splitting hairs to me. It would be entirely pointless to quibble between either position which, of course, is why libertarians do it.

CaptUSA
01-21-2015, 10:46 AM
Damn, can you imagine these guys donating for a couple of Rand's money bombs???? Could make even Ron's biggest haul look like chump change. I know, I'll believe when I see it, but if they do....They'd max out just like any one of us. Their real value would be in the PACs.

Brett85
01-21-2015, 03:25 PM
The Koch brothers would be powerful allies to have. I really hope they get on board with Rand. I don't really understand why they haven't been more active in helping libertarian-oriented Republicans if they're indeed libertarians.

dannno
01-21-2015, 03:43 PM
Is Rand going to be speaking anywhere else in CA while he is here?

Natural Citizen
01-21-2015, 03:48 PM
The Koch brothers would be powerful allies to have.

I struggle with referencing them as allies. They're mercantilists through and through. They align with politicians who will pass their special interest legislation which has specifically been penned by them and their industry cronies to destroy sovereignty of citizens and states in a way that benefits their growth model. This has been well documented. Even here on the forum. These aren't what I consider allies. And in no way aligned with liberty save for liberty to promote tyranny. Although they do function as a stalking horse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking_horse)from within the libertarian political structure. They either have many people fooled or many people agree with that kind of tyranny. One or the other in most cases.

If anyone would like to refute my thought on it then I'll be in the neighborhood.

Brett85
01-21-2015, 04:48 PM
I struggle with referencing them as allies. They're mercantilists through and through. They align with politicians who will pass their special interest legislation which has specifically been penned by them and their industry cronies to destroy sovereignty of citizens and states in a way that benefits their growth model. This has been well documented. Even here on the forum. These aren't what I consider allies. And in no way aligned with liberty save for liberty to promote tyranny. Although they do function as a stalking horse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking_horse)from within the libertarian political structure. They either have many people fooled or many people agree with that kind of tyranny. One or the other in most cases.

If anyone would like to refute my thought on it then I'll be in the neighborhood.

There have been times when they've promoted libertarian causes. They apparently gave the ACLU $20 million to fight the Patriot Act.

http://rare.us/story/when-the-koch-brothers-gave-the-aclu-20-million-to-fight-the-patriot-act/

Natural Citizen
01-21-2015, 05:20 PM
There have been times when they've promoted libertarian causes. They apparently gave the ACLU $20 million to fight the Patriot Act.

http://rare.us/story/when-the-koch-brothers-gave-the-aclu-20-million-to-fight-the-patriot-act/

I've never seen anything that would indicate that they gave the ACLU 20 million dollars aside from media. So until we have proof that they did I'm going to assume that they didn't.

Also the Patriot Act has since been expanded.

Krugminator2
01-21-2015, 05:24 PM
I struggle with referencing them as allies. They're mercantilists through and through. They align with politicians who will pass their special interest legislation which has specifically been penned by them and their industry cronies to destroy sovereignty of citizens and states in a way that benefits their growth model.

If anyone would like to refute my thought on it then I'll be in the neighborhood.

Feel free to cite one piece of legislation that makes them "mercantilists." They have opposed all subsidies and tax credits that directly benefit them that I know of.

Which politicians do they align with that you speak of? Mike Pence, Scott Walker, Rand Paul, and Chris Christie are the main politicians that I have seen associated with them. And is "destroy sovereignty of citizens and states" code for they support the libertarian view of immigration?

Personally I think they are great. How many billionaires are libertarians? Peter Thiel, Koch Bros. and ?????? I am thankful they are as sympathetic as they are to libertarian causes.

Natural Citizen
01-21-2015, 05:30 PM
Feel free to cite one piece of legislation that makes them "mercantilists." They have opposed all subsidies and tax credits that directly benefit them that I know of.

Which politicians do they align with that you speak of? Mike Pence, Scott Walker, Rand Paul, and Chris Christie are the main politicians that I have seen associated with them. And is "destroy sovereignty of citizens and states" code for they support the libertarian view of immigration?

Personally I think they are great. How many billionaires are libertarians? Peter Thiel, Koch Bros. and ?????? I am thankful they are as sympathetic as they are to libertarian causes.

Sure.

I try to keep a running list but we can start here since it is an attack on states rights as well the people in order to protect their revenue. What they try to do here is protect themselves from a genuine free market. Do I need to explain mercantilism? I can if you'd like but to be honest I don't feel like yapping about the TPP and whatnot at the moment.

Koch ally to introduce Monsanto-backed bill to bar state GMO labeling laws (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?448892-Koch-ally-to-introduce-Monsanto-backed-bill-to-bar-state-GMO-labeling-laws&p=5480104&viewfull=1#post5480104)

I'm glad that you asked me, though. I've read some of your postings and have just been itching to have a pow wow with you, Krugminator2. I figger it'll probably be a hoot.

philipped
01-21-2015, 06:05 PM
Ron maxed out at 40 million in 2012 correct? Imagine 40 mill just from the Koch's and associates Pre-Primary season? SWAG!

rich34
01-21-2015, 06:51 PM
They'd max out just like any one of us. Their real value would be in the PACs.

Of course, but one has to guess that not one of these guys donated to Ron in either 08 or 12 election cycle.

ross11988
01-23-2015, 11:08 AM
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/22/cruz-paul-and-rubio-to-participate-in-forum-hosted-by-koch-donor-network/

More info. Wonder if its going to be filmed?

libertyplz
01-23-2015, 12:21 PM
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/22/cruz-paul-and-rubio-to-participate-in-forum-hosted-by-koch-donor-network/

More info. Wonder if its going to be filmed?

It appears so based on this article:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gop-presidential-hopefuls-panel-moderated-abcs-jonathan-karl/story?id=28353844


The panel discussion will take place Sunday at 8:30 p.m. PT, and an ABCNews.com partial livestream will feature the event.

philipped
01-24-2015, 12:50 PM
Tuning in @ 11:30 PM EST.

libertyplz
01-25-2015, 10:18 PM
Looks like the stream will be covered here soon:

http://abcnews.go.com/live?stream=1

I was reading on another site, though I can't seem to find it now, that the stream the news stations will carry will only be partial streams, which means they will only be able to broadcast 15 minutes out of the hour long forum. Hopefully that's not really the case and we will be able to see the whole thing, but guess we will find out shortly

Edit: On the livestream graphic it already says at the bottom watch the first 15 minutes, so looks like we wont be able to watch the whole thing =/

Okaloosa
01-25-2015, 10:34 PM
Looks like the stream will be covered here soon:

http://abcnews.go.com/live?stream=1

I was reading on another site, though I can't seem to find it now, that the stream the news stations will carry will only be partial streams, which means they will only be able to broadcast 15 minutes out of the hour long forum. Hopefully that's not really the case and we will be able to see the whole thing, but guess we will find out shortly

Edit: On the livestream graphic it already says at the bottom watch the first 15 minutes, so looks like we wont be able to watch the whole thing =/

Watching now.

jeffro97
01-25-2015, 10:37 PM
Listening in currently. Liking what I'm hearing (from Rand, that is).

jeffro97
01-25-2015, 10:40 PM
"I think Mitt Romney is an extraordinary person." -Marco Rubio. Really Marco?

jeffro97
01-25-2015, 10:42 PM
"No. No. No. Never." -Rand Paul on Mitt Romney running again. I can agree with this.

Crashland
01-25-2015, 10:47 PM
Ted Cruz is going full-blown economic populism. "We need to be the party of the 47%" "We need to stand up for the little guy" "Income inequality is the highest it's ever been" wtf?
Rubio looked nervous.
Rand did well for the couple parts he had, and seemed to be the favorite of the audience

libertyplz
01-25-2015, 10:49 PM
Here's to hoping the rest of the forum will be recorded and released at some point. Have no clue why they only did first 15 minutes.

jeffro97
01-25-2015, 10:56 PM
Ted Cruz is going full-blown economic populism. "We need to be the party of the 47%" "We need to stand up for the little guy" "Income inequality is the highest it's ever been" wtf?
Rubio looked nervous.
Rand did well for the couple parts he had, and seemed to be the favorite of the audience

Agreed. Rand did do well, but I couldn't tell if the audience was liking him. Wasn't focused on the background. I'm not sure why Ted is going all populist right now. Maybe the January issue of Reason Mag will help me. But that has been something I've been noticing for a while, and it's been puzzling me a bit.

Then there's Rubio, and I just barely paid attention to him (and he's my own Senator).

jeffro97
01-25-2015, 10:58 PM
Here's to hoping the rest of the forum will be recorded and released at some point. Have no clue why they only did first 15 minutes.

I think ABC or someother big outlet will have the full video posted tomorrow. If not, perhaps the hosting venue will post it somewhere. If they post it, we'll find it (somehow).