'American Sniper' breaks box office records

[Warlord]

The people want war and glorification of the military. We are screwed.

[CPUd]

Have you seen it?

[Christian Liberty]

Have you seen it?

I refuse.

[Southron]

I saw it. I didn't think there was really a glorification of the military. Just the sad reality of the Iraq war. Kyle's first kills are a child and a woman. They didn't sugarcoat it. It also shows that he has no remorse for anything he did in the end. I hate the Iraq war more than ever now.

I'm sure a lot of people did get some kind of pro-empire message out of it but I sure didn't.

[CPUd]

I saw it. I didn't think there was really a glorification of the military. Just the sad reality of the Iraq war. Kyle's first kills are a child and a woman. They didn't sugarcoat it. It also shows that he has no remorse for anything he did in the end. I hate the Iraq war more than ever now.

I'm sure a lot of people did get some kind of pro-empire message out of it but I sure didn't.

The beginning part I thought was pro-military, but it gradually wears the audience down along with the characters.

It also goes out of its way to show the justification every time he shoots someone, which I seriously doubt was that black-and-white in real life.


Shouldn't get Best Picture or Director, but 50/50 for Best Actor.

[CaptainAmerica]

If it was directed by Clint Eastwood I would think he's toying with american jingoism in a subtle manner.

[juleswin]

That is not good news. I would hope America would reject the warriors of that illegal invasion and whatever stories they have to tell about it. But just hope they did not leave the theatre with more support for military interventions than they had coming in.

I didn't see the movie anyway, I am more of a mystery, history piece and fantasy movie type of guy. I wouldn't have watched it if had depicted the glories victory against big govt.

[Acala]

If it was directed by Clint Eastwood I would think he's toying with american jingoism in a subtle manner.
I would be a little surprised if there wasn't some subtlety to it with Eastwood at the helm. The American Western has been one of the most brain-dead of all film genera, but "The Unforgiven" was awesome.

Still, I know people who didn't see the satire in "Team America", so go figure.

I won't see it anyway. I want LESS violence in my life.

[AngryCanadian]

The people want war and glorification of the military. We are screwed.
This will only last a week or so.

[Chester Copperpot]

people always like violence.. if its not war, its star wars or battlestar galactica

[Crashland]

The beginning part I thought was pro-military, but it gradually wears the audience down along with the characters.

It also goes out of its way to show the justification every time he shoots someone, which I seriously doubt was that black-and-white in real life.

I would say the movie was pro-military, but not necessarily pro-war. Even though it did go out of its way to show the justification every time, the scenes are not easy to stomach. Even with a justification, it isn't comfortable watching someone kill a child or watching soldiers busting into people's homes and interrogating them. There was the one line that stood out to me, where one of the soldiers is expressing doubt about their mission, the other says "There's evil here [Iraq]", and then he responds with "There's evil everywhere" (meaning us too). It's not a lot to go on, but I would guess that most people coming out of the theater might have a little bit less of an appetite for war than before. That was my impression, anyway.

[osan]

The people want war and glorification of the military. We are screwed.

Shit... we are screwed for far stronger and more numerous reasons than a stupid film.

I would also point out that people are complex products of numerous influencing factors. Just damning the character of Kyle outright is tricky business. Just damning the war based on simplistic reasoning is similarly tenuous. OTOH, good intentions count for little when your actions serve to bring others to harm, so I really have no idea how to regard all the craziness of this modern world. I see no way we are going to reason our ways out of this mess, so I just sit back and wait to see what ultimately (d)evolves. But I can say that it seems this cannot go on much longer, given how strained everything appears at this time. Nobody wants to back down and few are willing to live and let live.

I suspect we may be in for a showdown with a significant contingent of muslims and that that shit-or-get-off-the-pot moment may be nigh, if events in Frog and Belgique are any indicator of things to come. So arm up, warm up, crack a beer, and forget about meaningless movies because if we go where it appears others are taking us, we will be occupied with far more pressing matters, one of these days.

[muh_roads]

America is going to fall apart because there are just too many stupid voters. Nobody understands debt, the monetary system, and how unsustainable it is to have a military 5x greater than all the countries combined. "The Greatness" of America and her freedom experiment will be written in history books as a bubble blip on the radar. While Rome lasted much longer, we couldn't even make it to 300 years old before falling apart. Pathetic.

The rest of the world will recover surprisingly fast IMO. They're smarter and an economy will always exist for people who want to work. But the spreading disease of the entitlement class has sunk in too deep in the nation of sheep.

[phill4paul]

http://i.imgur.com/cpZGOOo.jpg

[kcchiefs6465]

Had someone telling me about the movie yesterday and it was, he is a hero, the best sniper ever with the most confirmed kills in US history, he wasn't some machine gunner but would sit and pick people off "Pew", bragging about his four tours in Iraq, and just all in all what a bad ass he was.

Everyone else, who had not seen the movie, agreed.

[cajuncocoa]

*swoon*







:rolleyes:

[enhanced_deficit]

If this film's direction and content was put togther with below threat from Kyle's father hanging over their heads, should Clint and Cooper apologize to black people of New Orleans and brown people of Iraq if end result was pro war spin/inaccurate representation of actual facts in this movie?


American Sniper’s father threatened Clint Eastwood and Bradley Cooper? (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?466944-American-Sniper%E2%80%99s-father-threatened-Clint-Eastwood-and-Bradley-Cooper&)


Murdering navy SEAL thug Chris Kyle sniped in New Orleans (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?465376-Murdering-navy-SEAL-thug-Chris-Kyle-sniped-in-New-Orleans/page5&)

The real American Sniper was a hate-filled killer. Why are simplistic patriots treating him as a hero?

Lindy West
Clint Eastwood’s film about Navy Seal Chris Kyle has hit a raw nerve in America, with right wingers calling for the rape or death of anyone ungrateful enough to criticise his actions

Tuesday 6 January 2015 13.00 EST

But however effective it is as a piece of cinema, even a cursory look into the film’s backstory – and particularly the public reaction to its release – raises disturbing questions about which stories we choose to codify into truth, and whose, and why, and the messy social costs of transmogrifying real life into entertainment.
Chris Kyle, a US navy Seal from Texas, was deployed to Iraq in 2003 and claimed to have killed more than 255 people during his six-year military career. In his memoir (http://bookshop.theguardian.com/american-sniper-2.html), Kyle reportedly described killing as “fun”, something he “loved”; he was unwavering in his belief that everyone he shot was a “bad guy”. “I hate the damn savages,” he wrote. “I couldn’t give a flying fuck about the Iraqis.” He bragged about murdering looters during Hurricane Katrina, though that was never substantiated.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ero-chris-kyle (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/06/real-american-sniper-hate-filled-killer-why-patriots-calling-hero-chris-kyle)


[" Savage, despicable evil. That's what we were fighting in Iraq. That's why a lot of people, myself included, called the enemy "savages." There really was no other way to describe what we encountered there.
People ask me all the time, "How many people have you killed?" My standard response is, "Does the answer make me less, or more, of a man?"
The number is not important to me. I only wish I had killed more."]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-...b_1237669.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-kyle-usn-ret/american-sniper_b_1237669.html)




Related

U.S. Army battling racists within its own ranks (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/21/us-usa-wisconsin-shooting-army-idUSBRE87K04Y20120821)

[kahless]

They had a good Ad placement for it today. The beginning of the Packers vs Seahawks playoff game today started with a beautifully sang national anthem with jets, and fireworks that it would bring a tear to your eye. As soon as the last note of the anthem ended it went right into an American Sniper commercial. lol

[GunnyFreedom]

http://i60.tinypic.com/ddf7rr.jpg

WTF is this guy doing, trying to shield his eyes from the sun indoors?

[PaulConventionWV]

I saw it. I didn't think there was really a glorification of the military. Just the sad reality of the Iraq war. Kyle's first kills are a child and a woman. They didn't sugarcoat it. It also shows that he has no remorse for anything he did in the end. I hate the Iraq war more than ever now.

I'm sure a lot of people did get some kind of pro-empire message out of it but I sure didn't.

I saw that in the trailer. They were most certainly concocting a story that Kyle had to do bad things but that they were justified, as well as how he was just trying to save the lives of his men. It was all about how the military is forced into these unfortunate circumstances and they have to look out for their own even though they're actually the aggressors in the first place. There's no mention of how the war started or why, just meant to tug at the heart strings of Americans for the hardships that our brave military go through. Yes, I would call it glorification, especially considering the fact that I see the sheep bleating "God bless 'murikah!" whenever they talk about the movie.

[Feeding the Abscess]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/1507086_906200556079668_4901410805003866094_n.png? oh=62ddf961699ff768ecfb6e8e9f7b1d9c&oe=55669214&__gda__=1428330308_2eb3765aa070ad3d0c1ecd8d6daeb22 e

[PaulConventionWV]

This will only last a week or so.

Sure, the exuberant bleating of the sheeple will only last a week or so, but the impact in the minds of the ignorant masses will last much longer.

[PaulConventionWV]

I would say the movie was pro-military, but not necessarily pro-war. Even though it did go out of its way to show the justification every time, the scenes are not easy to stomach. Even with a justification, it isn't comfortable watching someone kill a child or watching soldiers busting into people's homes and interrogating them. There was the one line that stood out to me, where one of the soldiers is expressing doubt about their mission, the other says "There's evil here [Iraq]", and then he responds with "There's evil everywhere" (meaning us too). It's not a lot to go on, but I would guess that most people coming out of the theater might have a little bit less of an appetite for war than before. That was my impression, anyway.

I am honestly quite befuddled that more than one person on this thread has expressed a similar opinion to this. How can you not see the messages of blind patriotism? It may not be pro-war, per se, but that has never really been the aim of the propaganda. The goal is to make people feel for the sacrifices of our brave military and not think twice about why they have to do these things.

[PaulConventionWV]

America is going to fall apart because there are just too many stupid voters. Nobody understands debt, the monetary system, and how unsustainable it is to have a military 5x greater than all the countries combined. "The Greatness" of America and her freedom experiment will be written in history books as a bubble blip on the radar. While Rome lasted much longer, we couldn't even make it to 300 years old before falling apart. Pathetic.

The rest of the world will recover surprisingly fast IMO. They're smarter and an economy will always exist for people who want to work. But the spreading disease of the entitlement class has sunk in too deep in the nation of sheep.

Careful there. It hasn't fallen apart yet.

[Tywysog Cymru]

@ Feeding the Abscess, the Germans were only defending themselves from Soviet invasion after they had spent years invading the Soviets.

[staerker]

Here is the thing.

Even if you believe that preventative wars are justifiable-
and that sniping in preventative wars is justifiable-
and that sniping woman and children in preventative wars is justifiable-

Even if you truly believe that these are necessary evils, and that necessary evils are somehow not evil in and of themselves-

there should be no respect, no pride, only sadness.

[Feeding the Abscess]

@ Feeding the Abscess, the Germans were only defending themselves from Soviet invasion after they had spent years invading the Soviets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4

[Tywysog Cymru]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4

I'm sorry, I had a different sniper in mind I was thinking of an Austrian man who fought for Germany and went back to his carpentry job after the war and died only a few years ago.

[HOLLYWOOD]

reference Carlin... yet once again


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G91892EuhyU

[CPUd]

Here is the thing.

Even if you believe that preventative wars are justifiable-
and that sniping in preventative wars is justifiable-
and that sniping woman and children in preventative wars is justifiable-

Even if you truly believe that these are necessary evils, and that necessary evils are somehow not evil in and of themselves-

there should be no respect, no pride, only sadness.

That's sorta how the film ends.

[Crashland]

I am honestly quite befuddled that more than one person on this thread has expressed a similar opinion to this. How can you not see the messages of blind patriotism? It may not be pro-war, per se, but that has never really been the aim of the propaganda. The goal is to make people feel for the sacrifices of our brave military and not think twice about why they have to do these things.

Really? In my opinion, the goal was to make people feel the horror of war. For people who aren't normally exposed to it, that in and of itself makes people think twice about it.

[PRB]

The people want war and glorification of the military. We are screwed.

People wanting to hear inspirational stories from an individual's view, or glorification of realistic violence, is nothing new.

People watch and enjoy illegal violence in movies all too regularly. Super hero movies, vigilante movies...you name it.

Hello? What are kids' video games about? Spongebob jumping bubbles?

[PaulConventionWV]

Really? In my opinion, the goal was to make people feel the horror of war. For people who aren't normally exposed to it, that in and of itself makes people think twice about it.

Sure it was meant to make people feel the horror of war, but that's just to make people respect the sacrifices of our brave soldiers who died for our freedumz. It's cast as a necessary evil, not as a pointless evil, which is what it should be cast as.

[phill4paul]

Sure it was meant to make people feel the horror of war, but that's just to make people respect the sacrifices of our brave soldiers who died for our freedumz. It's cast as a necessary evil, not as a pointless evil, which is what it should be cast as.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/5a70ec4488f8d789a4013cd428990620/tumblr_inline_ncmfduiaWj1qkfn9a.gif

[Antischism]

I am honestly quite befuddled that more than one person on this thread has expressed a similar opinion to this. How can you not see the messages of blind patriotism? It may not be pro-war, per se, but that has never really been the aim of the propaganda. The goal is to make people feel for the sacrifices of our brave military and not think twice about why they have to do these things.

Yeah, you don't have to look very far to see the kind of sentiment held by people who flooded theaters to watch this film.

http://i.imgur.com/up6jCY7.png

I imagine this is a pretty decent representation of a sizable segment of American movie-goers.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

I'd probably get shot if I went and saw it. Last couple chest thumping USA movies I went and watched, I could not stop but laugh at the retardation before me. Cheaper just to wait for dvd or online streaming.

[Mani]

Sure it was meant to make people feel the horror of war, but that's just to make people respect the sacrifices of our brave soldiers who died for our freedumz. It's cast as a necessary evil, not as a pointless evil, which is what it should be cast as.


This.

I haven't seen it, but the trailers alone make me think, "Gosh darn it, war is hell! We soldiers had to do some despicable things to protect your freedoms! We have to live with these horrors to save lives! You need to understand our sacrifice, oh poor me and my pain and suffering to kill children to keep you free and save my fellow men in arms! Look at what these evil arabs did, they made me kill women and children! They are so evil to do that to me!! War is hell, we had to make some difficult choices, but doggarnit, we saved Murika! USA! USA! USA!"

[UWDude]

They had a good Ad placement for it today. The beginning of the Packers vs Seahawks playoff game today started with a beautifully sang national anthem with jets, and fireworks that it would bring a tear to your eye. As soon as the last note of the anthem ended it went right into an American Sniper commercial. lol


In the bar I was in, about 6 people clapped and cheered after the national anthem. The other 150 didn't... ...at all.

And I noticed the trailer for American Sniper right afterward. That didn't surprise me.

[FloralScent]

http://i.imgur.com/cpZGOOo.jpg

I wonder how he would've fared with a Simo Häyhä or Matthäus Hetzenauer shooting back at him.

[ConvertedRepublican]

I will NEVER, repeat NEVER, allow anything with Clint Eastwood in it to pollute my senses ever again.
Damn shame, I used to love the Dollar movies.

[William Tell]

I wonder how he would've fared with a Simo Häyhä or Matthäus Hetzenauer shooting back at him.

Or Roza Shanina :D
http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/507575-5/FJK

http://ww2db.com/images/person_shanina2.jpg

http://ww2db.com/images/person_shanina4.jpg

[GunnyFreedom]

Carlos Hathcock was 1,000x the sniper, and 10,000x the hero that Chris Kyle was. Only reason Kyle had more 'confirmed' kills was because it's harder to disappear the bodies in open desert than in thick jungle. Also, Hathcock was not a psychopath who bragged about killing random American civilians for fun inside the United States following a natural disaster (ie Hurricane Katrina and the Superdome Sniper). Here again we see this antichrist phenomena where the "Christian" Right elevates the government above and in place of God Himself. I ran a Twitter search for "American Sniper" and was duly horrified at the godless nature of what America is becoming. These people had better repent, because they do not yet comprehend what is going to happen when they stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ.

[jmdrake]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/1507086_906200556079668_4901410805003866094_n.png? oh=62ddf961699ff768ecfb6e8e9f7b1d9c&oe=55669214&__gda__=1428330308_2eb3765aa070ad3d0c1ecd8d6daeb22 e

Interesting.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/badass-simo.jpg
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hayha.html
In the winter of 1939, the Soviet Union was dicks. Russian Premier Josef Stalin thought it would be really fucking hilarious if he all of a sudden sent like two million of his dudes over to nearby Finland to start kicking everyone's asses and seizing whatever land he could get his borsch-covered hands on, while simultaneously kicking puppies and shouting profanities at inanimate objects in a vodka-and-caviar induced roid rage. While this may have been a laugh riot for Stalin and his numbnuts cronies, the Finnish people obviously were a little unhappy with the prospect of having all their cross-country skis, Winter Olympics gold medals and salmon fishing boats captured by a rampaging horde of godless commie bastards, so they decided to open an extra-large can of whoop-ass and give the Russkies the ballsack kicking they were apparently looking for.

Now when you think of Finland, the phrase "military powerhouse" isn't exactly the first thing that pops into your head. Likewise, when you looked at Simo Häyhä, a slight-framed Finnish farmer who didn't stand an inch over five feet tall, you also probably didn't think "total fucking unstoppable badass". Well let's just say that first impressions can be deceiving.

Simo was a member of a Finnish organization roughly equivalent to the minutemen of the American Revolution. He had done his state-mandated one-year term in the Finnish Army, reaching the rank of corporal, and was living a peaceful life in a farming village not far from the Russian border, spending his days farming, hunting, and crushing giant logs into sawdust with his bare hands. When the Soviets crossed the border into Finland with the expressed purpose of busting Finnish heads, Simo was called up into service. He went out to the wood shed behind his house, grabbed his old-school Russian-made Mosin-Nagant M28/30 rifle and headed out to take some commies behind a proverbial woodshed of his own.




Häyhä's specialty was his knowledge of the forests, his enduring patience and his impeccable rifle marksmanship. A sniper by trade, he would dress up in all-white camouflage, sneak through the woods with only a day's worth of food and couple clips of ammunition, and then lie in wait for any Russian stupid enough to wander into his killzone. His first battle-experience came in the hard-fought Kollaa campaign, where a severely outnumbered Finnish force bore the brunt of a large-scale Russian assault. Temperatures at this time ranged from -20 to -40 degrees Celsius, and the entire forest was covered with several feet of snow. While this played havoc on the inexperienced and under-equipped Russian invaders, the Finns were right at home in it because FINLAND IS FUCKING COLD AS SHIT ALL THE TIME and they're used to it there. Throughout this campaign, Häyhä basically just ran around doling out head-shots like the ice cream man gives out Dove bars on a hot sunny day in the Sahara desert. His personal best was fucking twenty-five kills in a single day. That's like an entire baseball team.

Throughout the Winter War (as it would come to be known), Simo Häyhä ran around being what experienced HALO players would call a "camping ***", and scoring enough kill shots to make fucking RoboCop and the Terminator hide their heads in shame. He would come to be known throughout the Russian Army as "The White Death", and at one point in the war they even went so far as to try and launch a couple of goddamned artillery strikes on locations at which they thought he might be hiding. That's desperation there - like even more desperate than a nymphomaniac babe at a convention for castrated male models.

After hearing about how much ass Häyhä was kicking out on the frozen tundra of eastern Finland with an antiquated bolt-action piece-of-shit rifle, the Finnish High Command decided to give him a special award: a custom-built Sako M2/28-30 Sniper Rifle of Headshots +3. He put this to good use, killing the ever-loving shit out of anyone that crossed him. On several occasions the Russians sent their own snipers to take him out, but Simo managed to win those duels every time. You see, Häyhä not only passed out long-range silent death to anyone with a red star on his hat, but he did it without the aid of a telescopic sight. He preferred to use the rifle's regular iron sights because it allowed him to present a smaller target, and because several of the commie snipers he moked out were given away by a glint of light reflecting off the lenses of their scopes. He obviously didn't want to fall to this fate, so he went balls-out and wasted assholes the old-fashioned (and unarguably the more hardcore) way.

Finally, on 2 March 1940, some Soviet bastard got a lucky shot off and popped Simo Häyhä in the jaw with an explosive bullet. Häyhä fell into a coma and was pulled off the field by his comerades. He would finally awake eleven days later, on the same day that the Winter War ended. He would go on to live to the ripe old age of 97.

The Winter War ended as a victory for Finland. The Red Army captured a mere 22,000 square miles of territory and lost close to one million men, more than forty times the number of Finnish casualties. Simo Häyhä received five medals for valour, including the prestigious Kollaa Cross, and was express-promoted from corporal to second lieutenant. Throughout the war, Häyhä raked in a total of 505 confirmed sniper kills (in some sources he is credited with 542). On top of this, he also mowed down two hundred men with a Suomi 9mm submachine gun, bringing his total kill count to over 700 men in under 100 days.

Nobody in history has ever been credited with more confirmed kills than Simo Häyhä. He was an unlikely war hero who used patience, cunning and precision to defend his country, his home, his people and his freedom from communist totalitarian oppression. He was an unstoppable killing machine the likes of which the world has never known before or since.

[RJB]

Carlos Hathcock was 1,000x the sniper, and 10,000x the hero that Chris Kyle was. .
CH also had to sneak miles into enemy territory vs getting chauffeured to his nest like CK.

[pcosmar]

No intention of seeing it,, but have seen the trailers and hype.

the WWII Potato Masher grenade was a nice touch. :rolleyes:

[RJB]

Sure it was meant to make people feel the horror of war, but that's just to make people respect the sacrifices of our brave soldiers who died for our freedumz. It's cast as a necessary evil, not as a pointless evil, which is what it should be cast as.

QFT. I've had my hopes so raised when I hear someone agree how these wars are breaking a generation of young men, physically, spiritually, and emotionally. They'll agree that some very evil people are profiting hugely at the expense of everyone. They'll express loathing for the corruption at the highest levels of the MIC. They'll even admit we are are really not achieving anything.

They go on and on and I will think, "Yes Someone with their eyes open!"

And then they drop the paradox bomb, "But unfortunately, it's a necessary evil."

I hate that phrase. Evil is Evil, PERIOD!!!

[Wolfgang Bohringer]

Sure it was meant to make people feel the horror of war, but that's just to make people respect the sacrifices of our brave soldiers who died for our freedumz. It's cast as a necessary evil, not as a pointless evil, which is what it should be cast as.

Its sounds like its purpose was to perpetuate and consolidate the idea that whatever the horrors of war, its just another of those unavoidable parts of life like the weather or an economic crisis. It just "comes" and of course we all have to fall in line with the Government.

I remember when they were beating the drums in 2002 and 2003. The TV was saying, "Is war coming?", as though it was an impending act of God.

From what I've read on this thread it sounds like the movie did a real good job of burying any actual thought or notion of what the U.S. Empire's international slaughters are all about.

[osan]

I refuse.


movie4k.to

see it for free. :) :) :)

[osan]

If it was directed by Clint Eastwood I would think he's toying with american jingoism in a subtle manner.

Or maybe he just recognizes a good cash cow when he sees one. I'd do the same, had I the juice.

[osan]

The rest of the world will recover surprisingly fast IMO. They're smarter and an economy will always exist for people who want to work. But the spreading disease of the entitlement class has sunk in too deep in the nation of sheep.

You single out America? Nonsense. You apparently do not live in Europe. Most of my family is there and I have spent enough time there as a child to know how they think and I can tell you that the western end of that continent is every bit the dopes that the average American is on many fronts. On some they are indeed smarter. In others, they lag far behind us. People are people no matter where they originate or live. There are those who are cool, and there is the majority who are clueless, corrupt to an absurd fault, and not worth half their weight in bat guano.

Welcome to the fruits of the modern world.

[osan]

Is that a 105mm round in your pocket, or are you just glad to see Chris Kyle?

Well, who knows... maybe his fate was a snippet of karma coming to visit.

[osan]

WTF is this guy doing, trying to shield his eyes from the sun indoors?

Where I came from, trying to pass that off for a proper salute would have gotten you hand broken. So yeah... just be a sun-shield move.

[osan]

Sure, the exuberant bleating of the sheeple will only last a week or so, but the impact in the minds of the ignorant masses will last much longer.

Anyone want to take bets on how big will be the surge of young men for BUDS?

[William Tell]

Its pathetic that people worship this guy.


His writing is drenched in braggadocio. “People ask me all the time, ‘How many people have you killed?’” he wrote in “American Sniper (http://www.amazon.com/American-Sniper-LP-Autobiography-Military/dp/0062107062).” “My standard response is, ‘Does the answer make me less, or more, of a man? The number is not important to me. I only wish I had killed more. … The Navy credits me with more kills as a sniper than any other American service member, past or present. I guess that’s true.”

What was less sure, however, were some of the anecdotes he told after he left the SEALs in 2009 and returned to Texas. “After his incredible military career, he felt such high pressure to maintain his image,” Mooney told The Post. One way he did this was bar fights, pinning (http://www.amazon.com/American-Sniper-LP-Autobiography-Military/dp/0062107062) it on “pent-up aggression.” He told a story in his book of one time he and a pal pummeled a few “wannabe UFC fighters” in a bar.
“I would rather get my ass beat than look like a p—y in front of my boys,” he wrote (http://www.amazon.com/American-Sniper-LP-Autobiography-Military/dp/0062107062).

That sense of superhuman toughness perhaps led him to tell stories reporters couldn’t confirm. One involved a cold January morning at a gas station southwest of Dallas. Two armed men, he said, approached him and told him to hand over the keys to his black F350. “I told them I would get them the keys,” he told Mooney (http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2013/02/08/confirmed-american-sniper-chris-kyle-killed-two-men-at-a-gas-station-in-2009/). “I told them they were in the truck and to just let me reach in.” Kyle then claimed he reached into the car, pulled out a gun and, shooting under his armpit, killed both men. “It’s true,” he said (http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2013/02/08/confirmed-american-sniper-chris-kyle-killed-two-men-at-a-gas-station-in-2009/).

But was it? Reporters, including the New Yorker’s Nicholas Schmidle, called (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs) some of the nearby county sheriffs and none of them knew of it. “I went to every single gas station [nearby],” Mooney explained. “I talked to every single law enforcement out there, all the Texas rangers — and there’s no evidence whatsoever.”

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram had no better luck (http://blogs.star-telegram.com/crime_time/2013/02/did-slain-american-sniper-fatally-shoot-two-armed-robbers-in-2009.html). “We checked with the medical examiner’s office, which reported no such deaths in Cleburne in January 2009.”

Years after those alleged killings, Kyle had another story to tell. This one referred to the vacuum of authority in New Orleans following Katrina, when the city slipped into chaos. According to the New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs) and several (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-special-forces-snipers-kill-americans-after-katrina/) military (http://notthesingularity.com/2567/did-special-forces-snipers-operate-in-new-orleans-after-katrina/) publications, Kyle and a few other SEALs drank late in San Diego late one night in early 2012. “The SEALs began telling stories, and Kyle offered a shocking one,” the New Yorker reported (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs). “…He and another sniper traveled to New Orleans, set up on top of the Superdome, and proceed to shoot dozens of armed residents who were contributing to the chaos.” The magazine said one conversation participant said Kyle “claimed to have shot thirty men on his own,” while another said Kyle and the other killed 30 between them.

When the New Yorker’s Schmidle called the U.S. Special Operations Command for confirmation, he didn’t get any. Then one of Kyle’s officers told the reporter, “I never heard that story.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/

[PRB]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/1507086_906200556079668_4901410805003866094_n.png? oh=62ddf961699ff768ecfb6e8e9f7b1d9c&oe=55669214&__gda__=1428330308_2eb3765aa070ad3d0c1ecd8d6daeb22 e

calling somebody a ****** is not an argument.

[Anti Federalist]

Why not do a high production value, Hollywood glossy of the life and times of Pat Tillman?

Yeah, thought so...

The deception surrounding this [Tillman] case was an insult to the family: but more importantly, its primary purpose was to deceive a whole nation. We say these things with disappointment and sadness for our country. Once again, we have been used as props in a Pentagon public relations exercise. - Kevin Tillman

[Anti Federalist]

calling somebody a ****** is not an argument.

Nope, that's an observation.

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Seth Rogen's tweet from yesterday regarding the movie:

"American Sniper kind of reminds me of the movie that's showing in the third act of Inglorious Basterds."

[PaulConventionWV]

calling somebody a ****** is not an argument.

It's not meant to be an argument. It's a meme which happens to have some truth to it.

[PaulConventionWV]

Seth Rogen's tweet from yesterday regarding the movie:

"American Sniper kind of reminds me of the movie that's showing in the third act of Inglorious Basterds."

I was thinking the exact same thing. Hitler had propaganda movies of his own that glorified his soldiers. This is the exact same thing.

[dannno]

calling somebody a ****** is not an argument.

http://s723.photobucket.com/user/Rainb0wSeven/media/HarleyFags.jpg.html

http://i60.tinypic.com/1zn928n.png

[osan]

I saw it. I didn't think there was really a glorification of the military. Just the sad reality of the Iraq war. Kyle's first kills are a child and a woman. They didn't sugarcoat it. It also shows that he has no remorse for anything he did in the end. I hate the Iraq war more than ever now.

I'm sure a lot of people did get some kind of pro-empire message out of it but I sure didn't.

Yeah, it really depends on whose eyes are watching. I didn't get the hero-worship message either. In fact, the scene where that guy thanks him for saving his life at the auto repair joint shows Kyle being a bit of a dick with a "yeah... uh huh... are you finished talking yet?" attitude. I don't see that as anything heroic.

I would also note that toward the end of his last tour he is portrayed as having some problems with potential targets like that little boy who was trying to pick up the RPG, the clear message being that he did not want to shoot a child.

His "I have no remorse" comments can be taken any of a few ways, the obvious being that he enjoyed killing them, ha ha ha. But another is that while he had no remorse in having done what he felt he had to do, he was sorry for having had the need to do it.

Kyle was a human being, meaning he was almost certainly a mixed bag; not all saint and not all devil. People who are so horny to hate him should take a step back and consider the fact that they are not living in his head. Everyone see things at least a little differently. None of this necessarily excuses anything he did, but I am not quite so fast and easy with damning him to hell.

As for the things he said in the years after his retirement, that is a different issue entirely. It may be taken to speak more deeply to the truer nature of the man. Who can say? The book deal does not speak well of him, I would agree, but it does not necessarily make him Satan, either. Assuming the rumor is true that he claimed to have shot and killed two men on the highway that apparently nobody can verify also brings his character into question. But all that is orthogonal and non-relevant to that which he did whilst in the "service of his country".

All I am advising here is for some to take a step back and try to take a more circumspect view of the man. You don't have to like what he did, but you may want to try to understand from his POV. Just a polite suggestion.

[muh_roads]

Interesting.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/badass-simo.jpg
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hayha.html
In the winter of 1939, the Soviet Union was dicks. Russian Premier Josef Stalin thought it would be really fucking hilarious if he all of a sudden sent like two million of his dudes over to nearby Finland to start kicking everyone's asses and seizing whatever land he could get his borsch-covered hands on, while simultaneously kicking puppies and shouting profanities at inanimate objects in a vodka-and-caviar induced roid rage. While this may have been a laugh riot for Stalin and his numbnuts cronies, the Finnish people obviously were a little unhappy with the prospect of having all their cross-country skis, Winter Olympics gold medals and salmon fishing boats captured by a rampaging horde of godless commie bastards, so they decided to open an extra-large can of whoop-ass and give the Russkies the ballsack kicking they were apparently looking for.

Now when you think of Finland, the phrase "military powerhouse" isn't exactly the first thing that pops into your head. Likewise, when you looked at Simo Häyhä, a slight-framed Finnish farmer who didn't stand an inch over five feet tall, you also probably didn't think "total fucking unstoppable badass". Well let's just say that first impressions can be deceiving.

Simo was a member of a Finnish organization roughly equivalent to the minutemen of the American Revolution. He had done his state-mandated one-year term in the Finnish Army, reaching the rank of corporal, and was living a peaceful life in a farming village not far from the Russian border, spending his days farming, hunting, and crushing giant logs into sawdust with his bare hands. When the Soviets crossed the border into Finland with the expressed purpose of busting Finnish heads, Simo was called up into service. He went out to the wood shed behind his house, grabbed his old-school Russian-made Mosin-Nagant M28/30 rifle and headed out to take some commies behind a proverbial woodshed of his own.




Häyhä's specialty was his knowledge of the forests, his enduring patience and his impeccable rifle marksmanship. A sniper by trade, he would dress up in all-white camouflage, sneak through the woods with only a day's worth of food and couple clips of ammunition, and then lie in wait for any Russian stupid enough to wander into his killzone. His first battle-experience came in the hard-fought Kollaa campaign, where a severely outnumbered Finnish force bore the brunt of a large-scale Russian assault. Temperatures at this time ranged from -20 to -40 degrees Celsius, and the entire forest was covered with several feet of snow. While this played havoc on the inexperienced and under-equipped Russian invaders, the Finns were right at home in it because FINLAND IS FUCKING COLD AS SHIT ALL THE TIME and they're used to it there. Throughout this campaign, Häyhä basically just ran around doling out head-shots like the ice cream man gives out Dove bars on a hot sunny day in the Sahara desert. His personal best was fucking twenty-five kills in a single day. That's like an entire baseball team.

Throughout the Winter War (as it would come to be known), Simo Häyhä ran around being what experienced HALO players would call a "camping ***", and scoring enough kill shots to make fucking RoboCop and the Terminator hide their heads in shame. He would come to be known throughout the Russian Army as "The White Death", and at one point in the war they even went so far as to try and launch a couple of goddamned artillery strikes on locations at which they thought he might be hiding. That's desperation there - like even more desperate than a nymphomaniac babe at a convention for castrated male models.

After hearing about how much ass Häyhä was kicking out on the frozen tundra of eastern Finland with an antiquated bolt-action piece-of-shit rifle, the Finnish High Command decided to give him a special award: a custom-built Sako M2/28-30 Sniper Rifle of Headshots +3. He put this to good use, killing the ever-loving shit out of anyone that crossed him. On several occasions the Russians sent their own snipers to take him out, but Simo managed to win those duels every time. You see, Häyhä not only passed out long-range silent death to anyone with a red star on his hat, but he did it without the aid of a telescopic sight. He preferred to use the rifle's regular iron sights because it allowed him to present a smaller target, and because several of the commie snipers he moked out were given away by a glint of light reflecting off the lenses of their scopes. He obviously didn't want to fall to this fate, so he went balls-out and wasted assholes the old-fashioned (and unarguably the more hardcore) way.

Finally, on 2 March 1940, some Soviet bastard got a lucky shot off and popped Simo Häyhä in the jaw with an explosive bullet. Häyhä fell into a coma and was pulled off the field by his comerades. He would finally awake eleven days later, on the same day that the Winter War ended. He would go on to live to the ripe old age of 97.

The Winter War ended as a victory for Finland. The Red Army captured a mere 22,000 square miles of territory and lost close to one million men, more than forty times the number of Finnish casualties. Simo Häyhä received five medals for valour, including the prestigious Kollaa Cross, and was express-promoted from corporal to second lieutenant. Throughout the war, Häyhä raked in a total of 505 confirmed sniper kills (in some sources he is credited with 542). On top of this, he also mowed down two hundred men with a Suomi 9mm submachine gun, bringing his total kill count to over 700 men in under 100 days.

Nobody in history has ever been credited with more confirmed kills than Simo Häyhä. He was an unlikely war hero who used patience, cunning and precision to defend his country, his home, his people and his freedom from communist totalitarian oppression. He was an unstoppable killing machine the likes of which the world has never known before or since.

Is the description about that guy pictured to the left of the bundle of twigs? To the left of the fa ggot?

[scottditzen]

They had a good Ad placement for it today. The beginning of the Packers vs Seahawks playoff game today started with a beautifully sang national anthem with jets, and fireworks that it would bring a tear to your eye. As soon as the last note of the anthem ended it went right into an American Sniper commercial. lol

Sniper: BABY!

Mrs. Sniper: WHAT IS IT BABY?

Sniper: BABY I'M COMING HOME BABY!

(explosion!)

Mrs. Sniper: WHAT BABY?

(gunfire!)

Sniper: BABY I'M COMING BACK HOME....BABY!

(nauseous)

[phill4paul]

"The child has a pepper grinder can you confirm?"

"We cannot."

[PaulConventionWV]

Just ran across this sickening article that demonstrates perfectly how boobus is perceiving this movie. And yes, it is about glorification... and justification. Everything in it is finely tuned propaganda. I'm breaking the link, but read it if you want to know why this is a propaganda film:

hxxp://www.katelynholm.com/blog/2015/1/19/why-should-you-be-offended-by-american-sniper

[Christian Liberty]

Just ran across this sickening article that demonstrates perfectly how boobus is perceiving this movie. And yes, it is about glorification... and justification. Everything in it is finely tuned propaganda. I'm breaking the link, but read it if you want to know why this is a propaganda film:

hxxp://www.katelynholm.com/blog/2015/1/19/why-should-you-be-offended-by-american-sniper

Yeah. I read the article. It was dumb. The writer is brainwashed to.

Sure, Iraq did bad things to its civilians, probably worse than what the US does to its own, but so what? War is a racket, both sides are always making questionable (immoral) decisions and both sides ALWAYS victimize their own civilians and the civilians on the other side to fight it.

If States must exist, at the least they could keep to their own borders.

[scottditzen]

Just ran across this sickening article that demonstrates perfectly how boobus is perceiving this movie. And yes, it is about glorification... and justification. Everything in it is finely tuned propaganda. I'm breaking the link, but read it if you want to know why this is a propaganda film:

hxxp://www.katelynholm.com/blog/2015/1/19/why-should-you-be-offended-by-american-sniper

Just commented using the name "Jesse Ventura."

That should last about ten minutes lol.

[Dianne]

LOL saw this on FOX yesterday. Hasselback is swooning that this guy killed 30 people in a few months. How barbaric.


http://video.foxnews.com/v/3997682182001

[Weston White]

Chris Kyle: The Bear Grylls of U.S. SOF. Case closed.

[AuH20]

Just ran across this sickening article that demonstrates perfectly how boobus is perceiving this movie. And yes, it is about glorification... and justification. Everything in it is finely tuned propaganda. I'm breaking the link, but read it if you want to know why this is a propaganda film:

hxxp://www.katelynholm.com/blog/2015/1/19/why-should-you-be-offended-by-american-sniper

I don't think Eastwood intended the film to be digested as such. It's largely an eye of the beholder scenario. Everything I have read has confirmed that it's neither a pro-war film or peacenik film. It's simply a soldier's story in a very complex conflict.

[AuH20]

This is what I just wrote on Hot Air in the American Sniper thread:


Chris Kyle definitely was not an American hero. No freedoms were being defended. In fact, you can make the valid argument that the American citizen has lost significant rights since the Patriot Act has been signed and a web of electronic surveillance has been erected around the nation. Iraq had nothing to do with 911. We should have actually bombed Saudi Arabia back into the stone age for their involvement.

With that said, I don’t think anyone can negatively judge Kyle for saving the lives of his associates. This micro-aspect of war is often overlooked. Sure, the entire war was a complete fraud, but I’m not going to excoriate someone for fighting for their peers.

[PaulConventionWV]

I don't think Eastwood intended the film to be digested as such. It's largely an eye of the beholder scenario. Everything I have read has confirmed that it's neither a pro-war film or peacenik film. It's simply a soldier's story in a very complex conflict.

TPTB never would have let it be produced if its message didn't meet the criteria.

[pcosmar]

TPTB never would have let it be produced if its message didn't meet the criteria.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy7FVXERKFE

Writer/Director dead,, under questionable circumstances.

[AuH20]

I talk to military guys and I can't completely comprehend the whole "glory" angle. Some are really addicted to their place as an American Hero. Just look at those videos depicting "Stolen Valor" incidents. While I think such behavior is cowardly and dishonorable, I view many of these ardent Stolen Valor defenders like I view Gollum from the LOTR trilogy. They are totally consumed by the lie.

[milgram]

Seth Rogen's tweet from yesterday regarding the movie:

"American Sniper kind of reminds me of the movie that's showing in the third act of Inglorious Basterds."

Perception is a funny thing. Somehow the Nazis occupy a space we've carved out for ourselves.

That segment in Inglorious Basterds is exactly like contemporary American movies and nothing like Nazi propaganda movies (although I've only seen a few). In fact the German army was purposely left out of Triumph of the Will in an attempt to appear less hostile.

[Christian Liberty]

This is what I just wrote on Hot Air in the American Sniper thread:

If nothing else, that's probably more likely to get through to some of them than what I would have said.

[cajuncocoa]

The response of the vast majority of conservatives to the Chris Kyle movie and controversy shows beyond doubt that they are incorrigible warmongers. The GOP and the conservative movement are lost causes. Libertarians are wasting their time trying to infiltrate them.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/conservatives-are-incorrigible-warmongers/

[GunnyFreedom]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/conservatives-are-incorrigible-warmongers/
I would LIKE to disagree with this. I'm having an awfully difficult time doing so.

[Pericles]

Anyone want to take bets on how big will be the surge of young men for BUDS?

You can console yourself with the knowledge that the Navy won't take them because they have to make room for chicks.

[Pericles]

I talk to military guys and I can't completely comprehend the whole "glory" angle. Some are really addicted to their place as an American Hero. Just look at those videos depicting "Stolen Valor" incidents. While I think such behavior is cowardly and dishonorable, I view many of these ardent Stolen Valor defenders like I view Gollum from the LOTR trilogy. They are totally consumed by the lie.

Most people lead quiet lives and will not accomplish much of profound impact on the rest of the world. For some of those people, the time spent in the military is the exception where they like to think that something of great importance is being done, and may get some trinket of recognition, which makes their lives matter. Others get that ego stroke by being cops, politicians, or posting crap on the internet. At the lowest end, Facebook and Twitter serve that purpose. Because most of our people put the military in the highest category of that recognition, some feel the need to make up a fake military past.

[PaulConventionWV]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy7FVXERKFE

Writer/Director dead,, under questionable circumstances.

That's not really what I was talking about. I'm not too interested in the Gray State director conspiracy, but what I meant was that there is an elite establishment in Hollywood and they are the only ones with any credibility. So what I really meant to say that TPTB never would have backed the movie if it didn't fit the criteria. This movie served a valuable propaganda purpose. I think that's pretty obvious, but some people here apparently think it was a genuine and heartfelt revelation of the experience of war. I really don't get that. If this served no purpose for furthering the state's objectives, it never would have gotten this big because the Hollywood establishment never would have given it legitimacy by backing it and giving it funding, finding talent, etc.

[PaulConventionWV]

I talk to military guys and I can't completely comprehend the whole "glory" angle. Some are really addicted to their place as an American Hero. Just look at those videos depicting "Stolen Valor" incidents. While I think such behavior is cowardly and dishonorable, I view many of these ardent Stolen Valor defenders like I view Gollum from the LOTR trilogy. They are totally consumed by the lie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zxN_8wRDik

This is a perfect example of what appears to be a pretty normal attitude by soldiers and marines toward their service.

[CPUd]

That's not really what I was talking about. I'm not too interested in the Gray State director conspiracy, but what I meant was that there is an elite establishment in Hollywood and they are the only ones with any credibility. So what I really meant to say that TPTB never would have backed the movie if it didn't fit the criteria. This movie served a valuable propaganda purpose. I think that's pretty obvious, but some people here apparently think it was a genuine and heartfelt revelation of the experience of war. I really don't get that. If this served no purpose for furthering the state's objectives, it never would have gotten this big because the Hollywood establishment never would have given it legitimacy by backing it and giving it funding, finding talent, etc.

The criteria is whether or not the studio will make a net profit if they invest in the film, or do they owe the producers any favors.

[PaulConventionWV]

The criteria is whether or not the studio will make a net profit if they invest in the film, or do they owe the producers any favors.

I would argue that that's not the only criteria.

I don't know if you were aware of this, but America is not a capitalist country. Any time something is done WRT the establishment and any of its defining characteristics (war machine), you know they're going to get involved. Making money is not the only objective when it comes to producing entertainment for the masses. It would be absurd to think just how involved the government is in everyday life and think that they're not also controlling the message that is relayed to us via popular movies and other media.

[PaulConventionWV]

I mean, think about it. Chris Kyle is an integral part of the establishment's propaganda campaign. The only reason he is a hero is because they made him one so people could ooh and aah at the bravery and sacrifice of our military. You can't just think that Chris Kyle is being used as military propaganda and also think that the establishment is going to let a movie be made about him without any input. This is a movie about an American War Hero. This is vital to their campaign, so they're going to make sure the proper message is displayed.

How can you even make a war movie without a particular slant? Sure, you can argue that there is always the "war is hell" slant, but the Hollywood higher ups and PTB are not going to waste an opportunity to make this movie good for the establishment agenda to keep the war machine going and the images fresh in the minds of the people. The fact that Chris Kyle is recognized as a war hero by the establishment that sent him to war and the fact that there was a movie made about him are virtually inseparable. To say that the establishment just idly stood by as Clint Eastwood did his thing would be silly. This was a carefully orchestrated propaganda piece, just like most movies are, especially war movies because of the subject matter.

[CPUd]

Flags of our Fathers was actually 10% about war and 90% about war propaganda.