Majority of U.S. public school students are in Poverty

[NACBA]

When you import the Third World, you become the Third World

http://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2015/01/16/Education/Images/Was8869664.jpg?uuid=ipWd4p0nEeSWzOhY66kc7Q
Three-year-old Saria Amaya waits with her mother after receiving shoes and school supplies during a charity event in October to help more than 4,000 underprivileged children at the Fred Jordan Mission in the Skid Row area of Los Angeles. Children from low-income families now make up a majority of public school students in the nation, according to a new report.

By Lyndsey Layton January 16 at 5:00 AM

For the first time in at least 50 years, a majority of U.S. public school students come from low-income families, according to a new analysis of 2013 federal data, a statistic that has profound implications for the nation.

The Southern Education Foundation reports that 51 percent of students in pre-kindergarten through 12th grade were eligible under the federal program for free and reduced-price lunches in the 2012-2013 school year. The lunch program is a rough proxy for poverty, but the explosion in the number of needy children in the nation’s public classrooms is a recent phenomenon that has been gaining attention among educators, public officials and researchers.

“We’ve all known this was the trend, that we would get to a majority, but it’s here sooner rather than later,” said Michael A. Rebell, the executive director of the Campaign for Educational Equity at Columbia University, noting that the poverty rate has been increasing even as the economy has improved. “A lot of people at the top are doing much better, but the people at the bottom are not doing better at all. Those are the people who have the most children and send their children to public school.”

The shift to a majority-poor student population means that in public schools, more than half of the children start kindergarten already trailing their more privileged peers and rarely, if ever, catch up. They are less likely to have support at home to succeed, are less frequently exposed to enriching activities outside of school, and are more likely to drop out and never attend college.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/majority-of-us-public-school-students-are-in-poverty/2015/01/15/df7171d0-9ce9-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html

[AuH20]

We need Moar Government due to this influx.

[NACBA]

We need Moar Government due to this influx.

Why of course, our new arrives need services and benefits like Gommint Edjukation

[specsaregood]

The footlocker bag made me think of that other article posted today about somebody opening up a shoe store in Harlem selling sneakers, some of them over $1000. Last I checked Harlem had a high poverty rate...

[Acala]

I did not see a single word in this article about immigrants. So you folks are all just assuming immigration is the cause? And yet, again actually reading the article, we see that the percentage of children in poverty now is not as great as it was 50 years ago. Was immigration causing the problem then also?

[NACBA]

The footlocker bag made me think of that other article posted today about somebody opening up a shoe store in Harlem selling sneakers, some of them over $1000. Last I checked Harlem had a high poverty rate...

Good point, but with easy credit standards.....

[NACBA]

I did not see a single word in this article about immigrants. So you folks are all just assuming immigration is the cause? And yet, again actually reading the article, we see that the percentage of children in poverty now is not as great as it was 50 years ago. Was immigration causing the problem then also?

Here just outside of DC a large portion of lower income students are immigrants or children of immigrants

The current flood of undocumented Hispanic children from Central America is spotlighting a trend of minority children forming a majority of students in the nation’s public schools.

Undocumented foreign nationals are nothing new to the United States, but the sheer numbers of undocumented children enrolling in public schools is a major change.

In schools around the nation the percentage of undocumented students is escalating as are related costs.

Democrats downplay this demographic change, but taxpayers are paying the costs.

The Washington Post reported in October that now northern Virginia county officials worry how to pay for the new undocumented children Obama has sent them.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.Newsmax.com/JamesWalsh/Immigration-Public-Schools-Fairfax-County-Virginia/2014/10/17/id/601322/#ixzz3Ov3DGeWK
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

[moostraks]

The horrors...they won't attend college! Then we must give them more money. We need some focus groups, federal initiatives, and more teachers to care for the individualized needs of the impoverished students. We should also mandate school breakfasts and lunches as well as early suppers. Attendance at (and purchases of) these meals are of the highest necessity. Healthy well fed students are better learners! Extended school hours are a must. This will be two fold benefit for the family. Parents can work longer hours to provide for their families while students will have extended exposure to propa...err I mean educational resources. Year round mandatory attendance needs to be a priority. Again, it is for the children's sake. If we could end the right to homeschool or use private facilities for education then we might improve the environment and stigmatism of being publicly educated that might befall students. No student need feel insecure because they are potentially one of the 51% as a public school attendee. Remember, it takes a village to raise a child.

[AuH20]

Where do we start with this comments?????????????????????????????????????????? ?


Welcome to Ronald Reagan - Any Rand- Republican's America...

Yup. plenty of subsidies to for middle and upper class kids to use vouchers to attend segregated charter and private schools but nothing but an all out war on public schools...

Do NOT vote for Republicans... This article is music to their eyes... They love poverty and misery for everyone but them and their kids... Means more for them to take...

Bob

This guy has no clue about the amount of fraud and corruption that takes place in the inner city school system. Republicans aren't embezzling school funds there, since there are no republicans in powers of position there!!!

[jclay2]

Not only are a majority of the public school students in poverty, they are also substandard students that drag down the education standards for everyone. Anyone who doesn't home school their children is committing outright child abuse. If you want your child to know how to add numbers greater than single digits, for the love of God, pull your kids out of government and a majority of private schools.

[acptulsa]

And after they spend thirteen of the first eighteen years of their lives getting indoctrination without any semblance of useful education, they'll spend their adulthood in poverty as well.

[thoughtomator]

I did not see a single word in this article about immigrants. So you folks are all just assuming immigration is the cause?

The very fact that immigration is not mentioned strongly implies that immigration is the primary driver of the phenomenon. This is the same thing we see in news stories when the perpetrator of a crime is black, the race is omitted; but when they are not black, race is included in the description of the suspect. Given what we know about changing ethnic demographics in the US and the main cause thereof, it is pretty simple to add two and two here.


And yet, again actually reading the article, we see that the percentage of children in poverty now is not as great as it was 50 years ago. Was immigration causing the problem then also?

The article does not say that at all. The reason for the 50 years is that's how far the dataset goes; before that they don't have the data. Drill down to find the information from before the 50-year mark; you'll notice it is absent from both the article and the source data referenced. The inference that at some point in the past we had 50%+ poverty rates in public schools is misleading - and knowing WaPo, deliberately so.

[specsaregood]

Anyone who doesn't home school their children is committing outright child abuse.
hyperbole much?



If you want your child to know how to add numbers greater than single digits, for the love of God, pull your kids out of government and a majority of private schools.

And yet I'd wager the vast majority of people here on rpfs that can add numbers greater than single digits went to public schools. I know I did; and I can add just fine, thank you.

[tod evans]

Surely more government will fix the problems caused by government..............................Surely.

[jclay2]

hyperbole much?



And yet I'd wager the vast majority of people here on rpfs that can add numbers greater than single digits went to public schools. I know I did; and I can add just fine, thank you.

Your potential is severely limited by going to public and a large majority of private schools. It is glorified prison mixed with adult baby sitting. Yes, you can still become successful in spite of being shoved through the system, but you are by no means doing yourself any favors. They take our kids for 40 hours/week and still can't get them to learn. Our kids are better off washing dishes 20 hours a week. At least with washing dishes, a child would develop a distaste for manual labor and understand the results (low wages) of having no differentiating skills.

[heavenlyboy34]

Your potential is severely limited by going to public and a large majority of private schools. It is glorified prison mixed with adult baby sitting. Yes, you can still become successful in spite of being shoved through the system, but you are by no means doing yourself any favors. They take our kids for 40 hours/week and still can't get them to learn. Our kids are better off washing dishes 20 hours a week. At least with washing dishes, a child would develop a distaste for manual labor and understand the results (low wages) of having no differentiating skills.
People who go to gov'ment skools also tend to have such mediocre basic academic skills that colleges nowadays have to lower standards and create remedial classes to handle it. That opens the can of worms about the folly of "higher ed" for everyone...but that's for another thread, I reckon.

[oyarde]

Poverty my ass . Go see the world , see some real poverty .

[euphemia]

Children can't help what kind of family they have. It's not their fault or their responsibility.

At this point if we choose to end government schooling (including college funding), then we have to force parents to suddenly be literate and teach their own kids. How is that going to work, exactly?

[specsaregood]

They take our kids for 40 hours/week and still can't get them to learn.
"our kids", excuse me? I assumed you would be homeschooling your children. Just FWIW, how many kids have you successfully homeschooled?

If your kids can't add digits or read or be educated it isn't the school's fault. t he root of it is the parents fault not the school.



Our kids are better off washing dishes 20 hours a week.
There is that "our kids" again, exactly whose kids are you referring to? it is a bit confusing. Are you referring to your kids?

[euphemia]

There were schools in poor communities when teachers had to "board around." The teacher was paid a small salary, then each family boarded and fed the teacher in turn. Kids learned, and learned well. Go back to look at the old McGuffey readers. Way beyond what we teach children these days.

[amy31416]

The majority of people I went to college with, including myself, could be classified as impoverished. I got jobs as did most other students during the process of getting a degree.

[amy31416]

There were schools in poor communities when teachers had to "board around." The teacher was paid a small salary, then each family boarded and fed the teacher in turn. Kids learned, and learned well. Go back to look at the old McGuffey readers. Way beyond what we teach children these days.

That's rather interesting.

[moostraks]

Children can't help what kind of family they have. It's not their fault or their responsibility.

At this point if we choose to end government schooling (including college funding), then we have to force parents to suddenly be literate and teach their own kids. How is that going to work, exactly?

You get from society what is expected of it. Public educators like to belittle parents as being too ignorant to home educate and make the parents feel incapable or as though they will be providing an inferior education.

Parents are expected to provide shelter and food as necessities of life and those are not free either. Why should there be "free" education for all children provided at tax payer expense when shelter and food and clothing are of a necessity and not provided to all children? Shall we not then increase spending to also provide for those needs of all children?

It is unlikely that we could end the ridiculous expense of public education anytime in the near future or even distant future due to the successful fear mongering of public employees. It would be nice if it were more like any other social welfare program so that parents who have the funds to pay for their children's education are made to be responsible for their own children while low income folks use the service until they become financially self responsible. As it is now, it has become "free" daycare for all children at taxpayer expense and the "educators" are not even expected or responsible enough to provide the service they are claiming to be providing.

[DamianTV]

I did not see a single word in this article about immigrants. So you folks are all just assuming immigration is the cause? And yet, again actually reading the article, we see that the percentage of children in poverty now is not as great as it was 50 years ago. Was immigration causing the problem then also?

I'd also like to lightly suggest that the 23% to 35% Unemployment Rate as well as Stagflation are contributing factors to the poverty, not just immigration.

[AngryCanadian]

We need Moar Government due to this influx.


Never fear the Republicans are here in 2016:rolleyes:
I am sure they will fix it.

[CaptainAmerica]

Poverty and homelessness is a very real thing , in az there is one of the biggest concentrations of homelessness , they come from allover the country , probably because the weather is safer here in az year round, but ill also point out that many of the states are blue states , california style economies , michigan , illinoiis.... we have lots of people from the rust belt and california. Its obvious how screwed up this country is from the more progressive areas of the nation that suffer first directly by bad legislatures. There is more to factor in , but ive questioned how much the migration of people (not just homeless) but people moving from california and the union states will be destroying or attempting to take away the rights we have in az. Gun rights right now are being targeted by bloomberg and he and his clowns know that there are lots of migrating blue staters moving to az. i just spoke to a civil liberties advocate a few days ago who said Tucson law enforcement and courts ( liberal californian migrators) disobey the law and try to charge gun owners with crimes for using self defense (castle law) which is legal in the rest of the state.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

Don't give a shit anymore. Really don't.

[euphemia]

There are poor people in the US. Their reasons for being poor are as different as they are. It's not their kids' fault.

If government education ended tomorrow, what do you say to those children? Seriously. You all like to talk about big government, but some people get hurt when government stops doing stuff. What do you think that transition looks like? Lay out some solutions.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

There are poor people in the US. Their reasons for being poor are as different as they are. It's not their kids' fault.

If government education ended tomorrow, what do you say to those children? Seriously. You all like to talk about big government, but some people get hurt when government stops doing stuff. What do you think that transition looks like? Lay out some solutions.

Looks like that would be the parents fault. So, Solution: Parents take care of your kids.

[moostraks]

There are poor people in the US. Their reasons for being poor are as different as they are. It's not their kids' fault.

If government education ended tomorrow, what do you say to those children? Seriously. You all like to talk about big government, but some people get hurt when government stops doing stuff. What do you think that transition looks like? Lay out some solutions.

It would look just like it does for parents who provide food, shelter, and clothing for their children. Are these not greater primary necessities for a child? Why should the taxpayer (homeowners) be forced to provide education for all children regardless of income and not also then expected to provide all children with food, clothing, and housing? It is not the child's fault they were born. Going by your argument, each child should be assured that they will have all appropriate life 'necessities' provided for them.

[CaptainAmerica]

There are poor people in the US. Their reasons for being poor are as different as they are. It's not their kids' fault.

If government education ended tomorrow, what do you say to those children? Seriously. You all like to talk about big government, but some people get hurt when government stops doing stuff. What do you think that transition looks like? Lay out some solutions.

The transition? >>> school was designed to make people think they are learning,but they are only preparing themselves for a cage of breeding the next generation of consumers. I really can't say I know many people who work for themselves , I can only think of 2 who aspire to do so, and they still work for someone else,and quite frankly "someone else" usually means a corporation. If kids do not create, do not know how to create , or learn that they can create....then what is there for them to do other than repeat the process? Government has basically set up the nation to fail at self reliance, but more than that has forced a nation into poverty through a tax code so monstrous that those who even attempt it are shoulder deep in paperwork and bureaucracy and risk of being put in prison for any mistake of filing taxes

[heavenlyboy34]

The transition? >>> school was designed to make people think they are learning,but they are only preparing themselves for a cage of breeding the next generation of consumers. I really can't say I know many people who work for themselves , I can only think of 2 who aspire to do so, and they still work for someone else,and quite frankly "someone else" usually means a corporation. If kids do not create, do not know how to create , or learn that they can create....then what is there for them to do other than repeat the process? Government has basically set up the nation to fail at self reliance, but more than that has forced a nation into poverty through a tax code so monstrous that those who even attempt it are shoulder deep in paperwork and bureaucracy and risk of being put in prison for any mistake of filing taxes

That thar^^ is brimming with win!

[heavenlyboy34]

Never fear the Republicans are here in 2016:rolleyes:
I am sure they will fix it.
If not, you're just not voting hard enough. ;)

[Ronin Truth]

I SWAG that means the majority of government school student (prisoners) families are also in poverty. Or is that just the necessary (lie) cover story to get free meals and more other "free" stuff at the taxpayer's expense?

[euphemia]

Looks like that would be the parents fault. So, Solution: Parents take care of your kids.

How? Seriously. People don't just wake up one morning and know what has not been known by anyone in their family for four generations. Lay out a solution that does not result in another generation of kids who grow up still lacking social, familial, and academic skills.

[moostraks]

How? Seriously. People don't just wake up one morning and know what has not been known by anyone in their family for four generations. Lay out a solution that does not result in another generation of kids who grow up still lacking social, familial, and academic skills.


The great bonus of classical education is the fun that parents have “catching up” on material they never learned in school. I’ve heard dozens of home schooling parents say, “I’m getting the education I never had!” As you shepherd your child through the classical curriculum, you too will learn.http://www.welltrainedmind.com/educating-ourselves-classical-education-for-adults/

The resources are out there for parents who choose to home educate. The benefits are to both the parent and child. It takes work. It requires society expecting parents to be responsible for their children rather than abdicating the responsibility to a stranger who will not have the instinctive concern for the individual child. The public educators are propagandizing and raising children in an artificial, age segregated bubble. People lack the "social, familial, and academic skills" because of the supposed necessity and benefit of public, government education. Insanity is continuing with the same "solution",burdening home owners with the financial responsibility, and expecting any different result.

Again, if public education advocates were concerned for the welfare/ well being of the children they would not limit themselves to merely education but to all of the more pressing needs of children such as food, clothing, and shelter.

[Cissy]

Yep. And they bring in poverty values with them, the kids come in with no clue of middle class expectations or understandings.

[euphemia]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/educating-ourselves-classical-education-for-adults/

The resources are out there for parents who choose to home educate.

I am very pro-home schooling, having graduated a child from home school at a time when there weren't so many resources and when not a lot of people were doing it. I'm not asking to be convinced. I'm asking how we make the transition from government schools to home schools when the vast majority of adults in poverty do not read.

Parents who cannot themselves read are not going to be able to use any kind of resource to home school their children. If government schooling ended tomorrow, the children of functionally illiterate adults will grow up to be illiterate themselves.

Explain to me how this transition works.

[moostraks]

I am very pro-home schooling, having graduated a child from home school at a time when there weren't so many resources and when not a lot of people were doing it. I'm not asking to be convinced. I'm asking how we make the transition from government schools to home schools when the vast majority of adults in poverty do not read.

Parents who cannot themselves read are not going to be able to use any kind of resource to home school their children. If government schooling ended tomorrow, the children of functionally illiterate adults will grow up to be illiterate themselves.

Explain to me how this transition works.

I am attempting to explain to you but you choose not to listen to what is being stated to you. I am aware of your posts in the education section and that you have homeschooled at some point. The information provided in the pp was a brief explanation of what a typical parent could use as a resource and not meant to be a definitive list of resources. If a parent cannot read, then THEY (the parent) should make the effort to learn to read, just as they are expected to provide for the dietary considerations. Parents should be responsible for their children, not the homeowners of the surrounding area to said families.

I also stated previously that the first effort should be made at scaling back education by ceasing to provide for parents that are in the 49% bracket. Furthermore I believe, and have stated on this forum numerous times, that impoverished parents should be responsible to provide sweat equity for the services their children are receiving if they choose to have their children in the state run system. It should not be a daycare center provided by the surrounding community with no responsibility to provide the services it claims to be providing (while seizing funds on an almost annually increased basis through extortion) and no burden upon the actual parents of said attending progeny unless they own a home, which is often unlikely if they are that destitute and ignorant.

We do not demand mandatory meals provided for all children on a standardized basis of recommended caloric intake at the burden of homeowners, do we? Do we ask for dietary exemptions for parents to provide for their children's food needs? Proper diets are necessary for growing bodies and to provide an environment conducive to learning. Why is it the government advocates do not command these programs be required? How can we expect children to be well fed when dietary discussion is not appropriately approached in the classroom on an annual and developmentally appropriate basis with lab experiences yearly? Parents are woefully undereducated on healthy eating, especially if one looks at certain studies on the matter. Even the First Lady admitted she needed dietary counseling. If 51% are in poverty, how can we ever expect them to learn without feeding them 3 meals a day? Why are you not more concerned with feeding them and ending childhood obesity? Do you not understand how woefully inadequate the current system is for rearing healthy adults? Are you not concerned about the cost to society with Obamacare now?

[Ender]

The transition? >>> school was designed to make people think they are learning,but they are only preparing themselves for a cage of breeding the next generation of consumers. I really can't say I know many people who work for themselves , I can only think of 2 who aspire to do so, and they still work for someone else,and quite frankly "someone else" usually means a corporation. If kids do not create, do not know how to create , or learn that they can create....then what is there for them to do other than repeat the process? Government has basically set up the nation to fail at self reliance, but more than that has forced a nation into poverty through a tax code so monstrous that those who even attempt it are shoulder deep in paperwork and bureaucracy and risk of being put in prison for any mistake of filing taxes

It's The Matrix.

I tell everyone to watch that film a few times so the understand what world they are living in.

Mandatory schools were designed to make compliant factory workers; the "American Dream" is to keep people in debt and have 2 parents working. Voila! We are all slaves.

The solution is to get .gov OUT of privates lives- FOREVER.

[euphemia]

I am attempting to explain to you but you choose not to listen to what is being stated to you.

Um, no, you are the one who is not listening. How do you say to an illiterate adult that tomorrow they will have to start home schooling their children?

I wish government schools would end and that every parent would home school. But I have been involved in education and literacy, for decades, and I know the problem with government is bigger than schools. There are people who come from families who are third or fourth generation victims of the welfare state. You can go back and look at their Census images and see that their great great grandparents did not know how to read and write. That has been the template for every generation, including theirs. You cannot look those people in the face and say, "Starting tomorrow, you must teach your child how to read."

Lay out a real transition that does not perpetuate the cycle of uneducated children growing into uneducated adults. It will not happen in a single administration. It has to be a long term transition plan whereby people are educated. I'm not advocating for more government. I want to know how you think education is going to spring from ignorance, and who is going to teach these people to read and do math and then force people to teach their kids.

I can tell you this: It won't happen under the current tax structure. If we had to suddenly take in our four grandkids and educate them, I would have to quit my full time job to do it. Our family already took a $20K cut in income last year. I don't earn $20K, so we would be even further behind. The tax structure rewards people who leave their kids in daycare. Just think about that.

The problem with government is bigger than schools. I was a John Taylor Gotto fan before some of you all were born. Schools are a problem, but the problem is bigger.

[moostraks]

Um, no, you are the one who is not listening. How do you say to an illiterate adult that tomorrow they will have to start home schooling their children?

I wish government schools would end and that every parent would home school. But I have been involved in education and literacy, for decades, and I know the problem with government is bigger than schools. There are people who come from families who are third or fourth generation victims of the welfare state. You can go back and look at their Census images and see that their great great grandparents did not know how to read and write. That has been the template for every generation, including theirs. You cannot look those people in the face and say, "Starting tomorrow, you must teach your child how to read."

Lay out a real transition that does not perpetuate the cycle of uneducated children growing into uneducated adults. It will not happen in a single administration. It has to be a long term transition plan whereby people are educated. I'm not advocating for more government. I want to know how you think education is going to spring from ignorance, and who is going to teach these people to read and do math and then force people to teach their kids.

I can tell you this: It won't happen under the current tax structure. If we had to suddenly take in our four grandkids and educate them, I would have to quit my full time job to do it. Our family already took a $20K cut in income last year. I don't earn $20K, so we would be even further behind. The tax structure rewards people who leave their kids in daycare. Just think about that.

The problem with government is bigger than schools. I was a John Taylor Gotto fan before some of you all were born. Schools are a problem, but the problem is bigger.


I am attempting to explain to you but you choose not to listen to what is being stated to you. I am aware of your posts in the education section and that you have homeschooled at some point. The information provided in the pp was a brief explanation of what a typical parent could use as a resource and not meant to be a definitive list of resources. If a parent cannot read, then THEY (the parent) should make the effort to learn to read, just as they are expected to provide for the dietary considerations. Parents should be responsible for their children, not the homeowners of the surrounding area to said families.

I also stated previously that the first effort should be made at scaling back education by ceasing to provide for parents that are in the 49% bracket. Furthermore I believe, and have stated on this forum numerous times, that impoverished parents should be responsible to provide sweat equity for the services their children are receiving if they choose to have their children in the state run system. It should not be a daycare center provided by the surrounding community with no responsibility to provide the services it claims to be providing (while seizing funds on an almost annually increased basis through extortion) and no burden upon the actual parents of said attending progeny unless they own a home, which is often unlikely if they are that destitute and ignorant.

We do not demand mandatory meals provided for all children on a standardized basis of recommended caloric intake at the burden of homeowners, do we? Do we ask for dietary exemptions for parents to provide for their children's food needs? Proper diets are necessary for growing bodies and to provide an environment conducive to learning. Why is it the government advocates do not command these programs be required? How can we expect children to be well fed when dietary discussion is not appropriately approached in the classroom on an annual and developmentally appropriate basis with lab experiences yearly? Parents are woefully undereducated on healthy eating, especially if one looks at certain studies on the matter. Even the First Lady admitted she needed dietary counseling. If 51% are in poverty, how can we ever expect them to learn without feeding them 3 meals a day? Why are you not more concerned with feeding them and ending childhood obesity? Do you not understand how woefully inadequate the current system is for rearing healthy adults? Are you not concerned about the cost to society with Obamacare now?

O rly? So you took the time to respond by merely snipping the first line and ignoring the entire rest of the response as though there was no explanation as to how we could step down from the current state of providing education for all children did you? No, you decided you would continue bemoaning adult illiteracy which is quite apparently systemic BECAUSE of a system that is not addressing the problem despite demanding more and more funding from the very homeowners it extorts. Why should we bother to keep funding this system that has not managed to stamp out the illiteracy you are claiming is generational? Should we not expect parents to learn to provide for the needs of their children and use the limited resources we have to address the specific problem of these adults who are failing to learn despite generations of education being provided to them? Why should the money be spent to fund a service to all parents? Why is education seen as a necessity yet other needs are not seen as a primary concern despite evidence of parental failures and the subsequent negative effect it will also have on society?

Why would your children not care for the needs of their own children? If you take that burden upon yourself it is because you having willingly chosen to accept that responsibility because the children you reared have not chosen to handle the situation themselves. I am unsure of what you seem to be making as a point from that portion of your post. Am I supposed to be distressed or concerned because a grandparent would be involved in educating their grandchildren in the event that those above the poverty level are held financially responsible for educating their own children?

You argue about the current tax structure, well it is what pays for the types of programs that people like you complain about being impossible to end over night (which is not what I say I could see happening) despite their ineffectiveness at dealing with the chronic generational illiteracy you are using as your argument. However, your line about telling an illiterate adult to homeschool tomorrow in order to shrink government sure makes from dramatic discussion and renders anyone who attempts to reason the current state of affairs to be arguing from a defensive position as though smaller government advocates are heartless as well as naive.

[moostraks]

It's The Matrix.

I tell everyone to watch that film a few times so the understand what world they are living in.

Mandatory schools were designed to make compliant factory workers; the "American Dream" is to keep people in debt and have 2 parents working. Voila! We are all slaves.

The solution is to get .gov OUT of privates lives- FOREVER.

Indeed! Currently we have people putting forth these types of arguments:


How? Seriously. People don't just wake up one morning and know what has not been known by anyone in their family for four generations. Lay out a solution that does not result in another generation of kids who grow up still lacking social, familial, and academic skills.

Claiming we must continue the currently system which has been so ineffective and destructive because they lack the capacity to rationalize a world that is not more of the same garbage in garbage out at homeowners expense. When a homeschool parent lacks faith in their fellow parents to achieve similar results, then I am led to hazard a guess they think too highly of their own achievements. Considering her subsequent post complaining about how the education for her grandchildren would cause financial hardship for her were it to occur, I am wondering if there isn't a generational mindset of village daycare being a necessity lest the family have to bear the burden of the children. Smh, that if one includes extended family as educators, it still is so much of a burden to those above poverty level that they could not conceive of a method by which numerous adults could split the workload.

[euphemia]

If I had to take in my grandchildren, it would be because something catastrophic happened to their parents. I'm looking at this realistically. We home schooled for many years. There weren't as many people doing it, and there weren't very many resources. Stop making assumptions because you want to latch on to a preconceived idea about why people might not home school.

I have made it my business to know what goes on in our government schools here and other places. I have been involved in literacy on a volunteer level, and I have comprehensively studied the problems of illiteracy and their impact on parenthood and earning opportunity. US literacy rates are abysmal. I think government bears the lion's share of the responsibility, but I also think it is not an easy fix. There is no way on earth that government schools could end in June and have every parent literate and available to home school. I'm not necessarily sure that is the blanket solution.

Before mandatory government schools came into existence, there were community schools. I think this is the answer. I think children learn better when they are kept at home, or in their small communities, where there is positive reinforcement and accountability. This would be a very difficult transition, but I think it could be done. By the fall of 2020 (or whatever, fill in the blank), mandatory institutionalized k-2 and early learning programs would no longer be funded. That money would revert to states or counties or something else, so children can be kept home or in small (less than 100) community schools. If parents and kids need to attend class together, fine. They all need to know how to read well. No more taxpayer funded babysitting. And no more teachers' unions. After two more years, move the markers to grade 6 and under, and then grade 8. Beyond that, I think the transition to adulthood should be under way, and some other things should be happening in addition to formal schooling.

At the same time, not every family has two parents available. I had several home school friends who divorced, or whose spouses died. Even the ones who were financially comfortable had to take over a family business and could not home school small children. There are many single income families. The children of those people need education. Community schools are the answer. A class of 5-8 children would be small enough for two adults to handle in a home, for example. I think it would be very effective in what we know as federally-subsidized housing projects where there are usually school buildings, libraries, and community centers.

This is kind of what happened back in the early days of westward expansion. A group of parents would send a letter to a (loosely defined) superintendent and that person would look for qualified candidates. They would hire a teacher and pay them a little bit and the teacher would live with each family for a couple of weeks in turn. The school would run for a given period of time, then the teacher would go back where they came from. As communities grew, opportunities for education increased and teachers could live independently and stay in one place. I think we have a good infrastructure in place for teachers to live independently and work in small community schools.

That's kind of my vision for an effective system of education that does not rely solely on home schooling. And frankly, what people call home schooling these days really isn't, so much. As we moved through our home schooling years, I noticed a lot of people outsourcing their responsibilities. Tutorials and coops are the norm. I don't know anyone who isn't involved in some sort of group, so saying take care of your own kids is really not happening. We participated in some small, short-term literature groups and some recreational PE opportunities (not organized sports), but my philosophy is that I am a home school parent, and we are going to do this at home.

[Feeding the Abscess]

There are poor people in the US. Their reasons for being poor are as different as they are. It's not their kids' fault.

If government education ended tomorrow, what do you say to those children? Seriously. You all like to talk about big government, but some people get hurt when government stops doing stuff. What do you think that transition looks like? Lay out some solutions.

Replace government education with slavery, and children with farm owners/crops/consumers. Would you still be singing the same tune?

[moostraks]

If I had to take in my grandchildren, it would be because something catastrophic happened to their parents. I'm looking at this realistically. We home schooled for many years. There weren't as many people doing it, and there weren't very many resources. Stop making assumptions because you want to latch on to a preconceived idea about why people might not home school.

I have made it my business to know what goes on in our government schools here and other places. I have been involved in literacy on a volunteer level, and I have comprehensively studied the problems of illiteracy and their impact on parenthood and earning opportunity. US literacy rates are abysmal. I think government bears the lion's share of the responsibility, but I also think it is not an easy fix. There is no way on earth that government schools could end in June and have every parent literate and available to home school. I'm not necessarily sure that is the blanket solution.

Before mandatory government schools came into existence, there were community schools. I think this is the answer. I think children learn better when they are kept at home, or in their small communities, where there is positive reinforcement and accountability. This would be a very difficult transition, but I think it could be done. By the fall of 2020 (or whatever, fill in the blank), mandatory institutionalized k-2 and early learning programs would no longer be funded. That money would revert to states or counties or something else, so children can be kept home or in small (less than 100) community schools. If parents and kids need to attend class together, fine. They all need to know how to read well. No more taxpayer funded babysitting. And no more teachers' unions. After two more years, move the markers to grade 6 and under, and then grade 8. Beyond that, I think the transition to adulthood should be under way, and some other things should be happening in addition to formal schooling.

At the same time, not every family has two parents available. I had several home school friends who divorced, or whose spouses died. Even the ones who were financially comfortable had to take over a family business and could not home school small children. There are many single income families. The children of those people need education. Community schools are the answer. A class of 5-8 children would be small enough for two adults to handle in a home, for example. I think it would be very effective in what we know as federally-subsidized housing projects where there are usually school buildings, libraries, and community centers.

This is kind of what happened back in the early days of westward expansion. A group of parents would send a letter to a (loosely defined) superintendent and that person would look for qualified candidates. They would hire a teacher and pay them a little bit and the teacher would live with each family for a couple of weeks in turn. The school would run for a given period of time, then the teacher would go back where they came from. As communities grew, opportunities for education increased and teachers could live independently and stay in one place. I think we have a good infrastructure in place for teachers to live independently and work in small community schools.

That's kind of my vision for an effective system of education that does not rely solely on home schooling. And frankly, what people call home schooling these days really isn't, so much. As we moved through our home schooling years, I noticed a lot of people outsourcing their responsibilities. Tutorials and coops are the norm. I don't know anyone who isn't involved in some sort of group, so saying take care of your own kids is really not happening. We participated in some small, short-term literature groups and some recreational PE opportunities (not organized sports), but my philosophy is that I am a home school parent, and we are going to do this at home.

If you are addressing me, my "preconceived idea" about why those above the poverty line do not home educate or pay for private education boil down to failure to be accountable for their children's education because the public school option payment is extorted from them and most parents do not see it as a welfare program as it is not provided based upon income qualification. I believe this needs to change.

Quite frankly all your excuses for why a community school is a necessary option are excuses, and not legitimate reasons to forcefully extract funding from the public at large. Excepting the death of a spouse, the other conditions were all choices made by families, parents specifically. If your plan is to be funded by the families then that is a private school option. No one has relayed an opinion that commands a single solution nor have they been demanding illiterate parents be expected to take over education on a single day notice. They are advancing the opinion that parents, not the community, be responsible for funding and providing for the education of the children.

As for your anecdotal evidence on homeschoolers all out sourcing I call bunk. I am a homeschooling parent and I do not outsource. I am heavily involved online with numerous groups wherein a number of families likewise are flying solo wrt educating their children. So whose evidence trumps whom? Since you want to make a sweeping claim from your previous experience and I am currently, and have been involved for a number of years, do I get the final say so on whether or not I, as a homeschooling parent, hold myself solely accountable and responsible to and sole provider for my children's education?

If your idea is to return to the Little House days of McGuffey readers, then why should we expect a different result than what those community schools have morphed into today? If the generational situation of illiteracy was not resolved by those previous community schools, and still persists today, then how is it we should revert to something that was ineffective at resolving the very problem you use as your talking point for its necessity? Finally, why is it necessary to create a community education center but not necessary for community food centers for daily meals or shelter subsidies or clothing provision for all families? Why must we offer community based education and not be concerned for these other needs?

[euphemia]

Clearly you do not live in a world where at least a third of children live in a single parent home. If small government is the rule, then that one parent should be working. I'm not sure what you think that parent should do with a school age child.

Clearly you are privileged and have the internet and all those resources. Poor people do not have them. We certainly did not when we were home schooling through high school. We did not enter the cyberworld until our daughter was in college and living at home. She home schooled for part of that, and her assignments were submitted online.

I am not, and have never suggested that we revert to something that does not work. Some things clearly did work. And some things worked as well or better than what a lot of people call home schooling today. I am still very in touch with the home school community, and I do not know a single person who does not belong to some sort of coop or use a tutorial.

The original post was about the majority of students in the public system being poor (below the poverty line). My question was how to transition out of a large government system into a more local, or family-based system. Nobody has any answers for that. Simply stopping the system is not going to serve poor children very well, if their parents and grandparents were also underserved by that system and are functionally illiterate themselves. Are you prepared to take extra children and their parents into your circle and help them learn to read?

[DamianTV]

Clearly you do not live in a world where at least a third of children live in a single parent home. If small government is the rule, then that one parent should be working. I'm not sure what you think that parent should do with a school age child.

Clearly you are privileged and have the internet and all those resources. Poor people do not have them. We certainly did not when we were home schooling through high school. We did not enter the cyberworld until our daughter was in college and living at home. She home schooled for part of that, and her assignments were submitted online.

I am not, and have never suggested that we revert to something that does not work. Some things clearly did work. And some things worked as well or better than what a lot of people call home schooling today. I am still very in touch with the home school community, and I do not know a single person who does not belong to some sort of coop or use a tutorial.

The original post was about the majority of students in the public system being poor (below the poverty line). My question was how to transition out of a large government system into a more local, or family-based system. Nobody has any answers for that. Simply stopping the system is not going to serve poor children very well, if their parents and grandparents were also underserved by that system and are functionally illiterate themselves. Are you prepared to take extra children and their parents into your circle and help them learn to read?

I dont have a complete answer but perhaps a starting point.

We can not expect anyone else to take responsibility for the things which we are truly responsible for. When we blame someone else for our own lack of responsiblity, we have no one else to blame but ourselves for the surrender of those responsibilities. And Parenting is as much of a responsibility as is Education.

+Rep for Homeschooling

[oyarde]

Little children are precious , if you have some and do not wish them , give them to other individuals who would nurture them .

[moostraks]

Clearly you do not live in a world where at least a third of children live in a single parent home. If small government is the rule, then that one parent should be working. I'm not sure what you think that parent should do with a school age child.

Clearly you are privileged and have the internet and all those resources. Poor people do not have them. We certainly did not when we were home schooling through high school. We did not enter the cyberworld until our daughter was in college and living at home. She home schooled for part of that, and her assignments were submitted online.

I am not, and have never suggested that we revert to something that does not work. Some things clearly did work. And some things worked as well or better than what a lot of people call home schooling today. I am still very in touch with the home school community, and I do not know a single person who does not belong to some sort of coop or use a tutorial.

The original post was about the majority of students in the public system being poor (below the poverty line). My question was how to transition out of a large government system into a more local, or family-based system. Nobody has any answers for that. Simply stopping the system is not going to serve poor children very well, if their parents and grandparents were also underserved by that system and are functionally illiterate themselves. Are you prepared to take extra children and their parents into your circle and help them learn to read?

Are you addressing me? I am not sure because your inability to specifically address someone directly and the utter inaccuracy of your commentary and lack of critical thinking wrt the responses I have offered but it seems to be a retort to my efforts to engage your position on community education.

Single parenthood is a difficult position but it is a choice to be a single parent. I was one for a number of years and I was solely financially and physically responsible for my children of a previous marriage. My ex was an abusive individual that I made a choice to be involved with and have children with and it set me back as well as caused suffering for the children involved. I made a subsequent choice to leave him. The children were always supervised. It was my duty to guarantee their well being. I worked towards a position where I could be a homeschool parent.

As for privileged, lol! My family, going by government tables of income and family size, is not in that 49% bracket. I gave up a career that would have paid us very handsomely to stay at home with them because it is my duty and responsibility. We live in a century home that is paid for, outright, because we live in the rust belt and went into a home in an area others were fleeing. Our cars are paid off. My husband has learned to do almost all repairs to the home excepting those due to a fear of heights that he cannot physically do.

We have Internet because we budget for it and use it as a resource for both school and finding low cost items to extend our limited resources. Our monthly bill for Internet, including three video streaming services, is $70 roughly. We have magic jack for our home phone. This combined a bill we used to pay almost $200 a month for because we choose to use our limited resources to the best of our abilities because we made a choice. I could eliminate $20 a month by not using video services. This is something we choose to pay for in exchange for cutting $20 from the budget somewhere else. I would not get rid of Internet because of the low cost deals I find will pay for my yearly service and the fact it is a tool we use for education. It is a household operating expense. So we are poor by government standards and we have Internet and all those resources. If we didn't, then there is the public library, through which anyone can utilize the Internet and all those resources.

Even though we still are considered poor, by government standards, we own cats, dogs, fish, turtles, birds, and hamsters. I do most of my own vet care. These animals are not fed the cheapest foods because we budget for them. If we needed to we could have trimmed much off the budget by not owning these pets. So you might want to think about just what type of a standard the government sets for poor in the U.S..

No one has answers? No, you are not listening. The system is currently serving 49% who are above the poverty line. Start there. Get rid of all the bureaucrats involved in education to deal with a bloated system, that according to this article has largely been serving those above the poverty line until recently. Parents should pay for services rendered. If they are so poor they are incapable of doing so, then they can provide sweat equity. This means janitor, lunch room, bus, nursing, front desk, filing, lawncare, maintenance, etc. can be done in lieu of payment. This provides low income parents with an opportunity to realize the cost of having children in the public system. Focus attention on educating adult parents to be literate. Use technology! How many students can be serviced without even having a brick and mortar school which is expensive to maintain? Again, a sliding fee based service could be provided for those who think that the public school offers an outstanding curriculum.

If the system was scaled back to provide services as a welfare program instead of all these ridiculous studies to integrate different socio-economic sub groups in a cohesive learning environment, then it can spend time teaching a more cohesive group, instead of all the teacher workshop nonsense and overpaid administration officials that are all paid for by homeowners. Give the money back to homeowners. It is not the responsibility of homeowners to pay for other people's choices to have children. In the areas I have lived in roughly 75% of r.e. taxes have been given to education. That is absurd! With this tax money in hand parents can choose which method they wish to use and not be forced into the public option, bereft of funds to do elsewise.

Your suggestion is to dial back the clock to the predecessor of the behemoth we pay for today. The same set up that, by your own admission, did not service the generational illiteracy you use as your platform for necessity. If we know it did not resolve the problem you claim to want to resolve, if it fails to be funded by the people utilizing the services, then it will fail to be anything other than what it became the first time because the root of the problem is in the very lack of accountability of services to those who subsidize it. When people are directly funding and receiving services from an entity then there is a reasonable expectation of return on investment. When the service is paid for by unrelated individuals, then upon what basis do they argue? Anecdotal evidence? To whom are they to expect a hearing for an airing of their grievances and how seriously do you think their concerns are taken?

And you now are aware of homeschoolers who do not use a coop or other such collaborative for educating. I am one. I exist. Others like my family exist. We are not the only single homeschool that operates independent of coops or without collaberatives. Are you lowering the bar by saying use a tutorial? In what manner do you speak of this? So is anyone who ever read a book on education not to be considered an independent homeschooler? I suppose those who sought out Froebel's book years ago or Mason's writings were not independent either then? Or any parent who did not reinvent the wheel on education with regards to their own children?