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twomp
01-14-2015, 01:55 PM
The Sick Man of Europe


Matt Welch, former "war-blogger" – "I for one,” he once wrote, “advocate a Global War to abolish terrorism" – and now editor of Reason magazine, attacks Ron Paul for arguing that the attacks are simply "blowback," the consequence of a foreign policy that has seen the West invading country after country – all of them coincidentally Muslim. And yet all one has to do is listen to Amedy Coulibaly’s recorded rant as he murdered those shoppers in cold blood to understand that Paul is right.

As the attack in a kosher supermarket unfolded, French radio station RTL called Coulibaly, who answered and then hung up – but the phone was still on the hook. In what is surely one of the more ghoulish scenes in memory, he actually tried to justify his actions to his victims – and if we are looking for the sources of this sickness, perhaps we should take his words seriously:

"’I was born in France. If they didn’t attack other countries, I wouldn’t be here,’ [he said].

"In RTL’s recording, the man purported to be Coulibaly tells the hostages that they are accountable for France’s actions against Muslim militants abroad, in part because the hostages pay taxes and elect the government’s leaders. ‘But I am telling you, it’s almost over. Militants are going to come. There are going to be more and more. They (France) need to stop. They need to stop attacking ISIS. They need to stop asking our women to remove the hijab …’ You pay taxes, so that means you agree…’ with France’s actions in Mali and the Middle East, the apparent gunman says in the recording.

"’But we have to pay,’ another voice says.

"The response from the apparent gunman appeared incredulous: ‘What? We don’t have to. I don’t pay my taxes!’

“‘When I pay my taxes, it’s for the highways, schools,’ an apparent hostage says. ‘We pay our taxes but we don’t harm anybody,’ a person also says.

"The man purported to be Coulibaly says: ‘Everyone could get together. If they could get together for Charlie Hebdo … they could do the same thing for us and get together for us.’"




Read the rest here:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/01/13/the-sick-man-of-europe/

William Tell
01-14-2015, 01:59 PM
I guess Matt Welch should apologize.

jmdrake
01-14-2015, 02:07 PM
Of course he's right. The only surprising thing is the number of people here willing to doubt that.

enhanced_deficit
01-14-2015, 02:11 PM
France may exapand its intervention in mideast/muslim lands, if that happened muslim population in France could easily increase 200-300% in coming decades if past history of French inteventions in Algeria/mideast can be used as a guide.


France may now be tempted to invade Yemen. It should resist the urge.
Peter Weber
January 14, 2015

On Wednesday, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Yemen-based branch of the terrorist organization, claimed operational and moral responsibility (http://theweek.com/speedreads/533428/al-qaeda-yemen-claims-responsibility-charlie-hebdo-attack) for the "blessed battle of Paris." By "blessed battle," AQAP leader Nasr bin Ali al-Ansi means the cold-blooded murder of 10 satirists and two police officers, plus the long manhunt that ended in the fatalities of Cherif and Said Kouachi, the two French gunmen apparently sent by AQAP. By American standards, such a claim would demand a response.

You can't ignore a group that brags about ordering the murder of a country's citizens and police, right? Well, the reaction is already beginning. France, like the U.S. after the Sept. 11, 2001, is already moving to curtail civil liberties (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e19fb2b3e729470e8c51b9c8b5e2a4ed/charlie-hebdo-plans-unprecedented-3-million-run-new-issue) and beef up security laws, and France's lower house voted Tuesday to continue bombing the Islamic State — which claimed responsibility for the other terrorist attack, on a Parisian Kosher market, last week — on a lopsided 488-1 vote.

Bombing ISIS is one thing — Paris is extending a mission already underway, and ISIS probably poses a greater threat to France and its neighbors, since an estimated 3,000 to 5,000 European nationals have traveled to Syria and Iraq to fight with the group. But unpopular French President Francois Hollande may be tempted to expand his country's involvement in the Middle East with a retaliatory, rallly-around-the-Tricolour invasion of Yemen.

http://theweek.com/articles/533434/france-now-tempted-invade-yemen-should-resist-urge


France may now be tempted to invade Yemen. It should resist the urge.
By American standards, such a claim would demand a response.

Ok, then by American standards of mideast interventions, French President in 2020 would be a guy named Francis de Hussein with an Algerain moslem father and French mother.

Better resist the urge to invade. Ask the US based neocons.

AuH20
01-14-2015, 02:14 PM
Attacking a nonconformist newspaper not affiliated with the French government is considered blowback? I'm trying to get my head around this one. Either these terrorists were just dimwitted or...

twomp
01-14-2015, 02:21 PM
Attacking a nonconformist newspaper not affiliated with the French government is considered blowback? I'm trying to get my head around this one. Either these terrorists were just dimwitted or...

I would say the newspaper was the straw that broke the camel's back. Do you really think the attack was only because of the cartoon and NOTHING else?

acptulsa
01-14-2015, 02:24 PM
Attacking a nonconformist newspaper not affiliated with the French government is considered blowback? I'm trying to get my head around this one. Either these terrorists were just dimwitted or...

Is the magazine carrying water for imperialistic interventionism by dehumanizing and belittling the imperialists' favorite target? Is the magazine flouting French censorship laws against saying one thing that questions either Judaism or Israel? Is this magazine liked by the French people? Do they like it better than, for example, Sarkozy? Is it deep in the heart of Paris, the country's largest population center?

dannno
01-14-2015, 02:25 PM
I guess Matt Welch should apologize.

And KingNothing.

AuH20
01-14-2015, 02:27 PM
I would say the newspaper was the straw that broke the camel's back. Do you really think the attack was only because of the cartoon and NOTHING else?

A general inferiority complex that has been manifested into displacement? I can't think of anything else to explain this attack. The newspaper doesn't make policy.

TheCount
01-14-2015, 02:28 PM
Attacking a nonconformist newspaper not affiliated with the French government is considered blowback? I'm trying to get my head around this one. Either these terrorists were just dimwitted or...

Maybe, instead of viewing the French as individuals, the terrorists viewed them as a monolithic racial, ethnic, or religious collective.






Sound familiar?

AuH20
01-14-2015, 02:29 PM
Is the magazine carrying water for imperialistic interventionism by dehumanizing and belittling the imperialists' favorite target? Is the magazine flouting French censorship laws against saying one thing that questions either Judaism or Israel? Is this magazine liked by the French people? Do they like it better than, for example, Sarkozy? Is it deep in the heart of Paris, the country's largest population center?

The RCC has been lampooned far worse by this publication. But for some reason, there has been no attacks or threats.

twomp
01-14-2015, 02:32 PM
A general inferiority complex that has been manifested into displacement? I can't think of anything else to explain this attack. The newspaper doesn't make policy.

Do you also try to rationalize why people shoot up malls, schools and movie theaters?

acptulsa
01-14-2015, 02:33 PM
The RCC has been lampooned far worse by this publication. But for some reason, there has been no attacks or threats.

This is supposed to support your position? Really?

Is France attacking Italy? Is France attacking Colombia, Brazil, Belize?

Well then. I guess this magazine was just a trigger, and a soft, high profile target in a crowded area. Huh.

AuH20
01-14-2015, 02:34 PM
This is supposed to support your position? Really?

Is France attacking Italy? Is France attacking Colombia, Brazil, Belize?

Well then. I guess this magazine was just a trigger, and a soft, high profile target in a crowded area. Huh.

It still doesn't validate the attack. If you are that mentally weak to be offended by words and images, then you likely belong in a padded room. Blowback doesn't apply when you're off your rocker.

TheCount
01-14-2015, 02:34 PM
Do you also try to rationalize why people shoot up malls, schools and movie theaters?

AuH20 logic:
No, because those are white people, and they have individual motivations for things.

These are brown people, who do things because they are brown and for no other reason.

twomp
01-14-2015, 02:34 PM
The RCC has been lampooned far worse by this publication. But for some reason, there has been no attacks or threats.

So I guess these guys were just stocking up on rocket launchers and weapons waiting for a bad cartoon to show up? Or did they stockpile these weapons for a different reason in your opinion?

twomp
01-14-2015, 02:35 PM
AuH20 logic:
No, because those are white people, and they have individual motivations for things.

These are brown people, who do things because they are brown and for no other reason.

LOL! Well if you put it that way, it makes perfect sense!

AuH20
01-14-2015, 02:37 PM
AuH20 logic:
No, because those are white people, and they have individual motivations for things.

These are brown people, who do things because they are brown and for no other reason.

It has more to do with a certain backward religion prohibiting the visual depiction of the prophets of Islam. This has nothing to do with the color of the practitioners.

acptulsa
01-14-2015, 02:37 PM
It still doesn't validate the attack. If you are that mentally weak to be offended by words and images, then you likely belong in a padded room. Blowback doesn't apply when you're off your rocker.

So, if I harass you until I drive you crazy (which may or may not be a long enough trip to justify using an automobile) and you hit me, will the fact that blowback doesn't apply make your fist miss?

And if I drive you crazy harassing you with the words coming out of my mouth, would you be 'mentally weak' to punch me in the eye instead?

TheCount
01-14-2015, 02:38 PM
It has more to do with a certain backward religion prohibiting the visual depiction of the prophets of Islam. This has nothing to do with the color of the practitioners.

That doesn't explain your reference to an "inferiority complex."

twomp
01-14-2015, 02:41 PM
It has more to do with a certain backward religion prohibiting the visual depiction of the prophets of Islam. This has nothing to do with the color of the practitioners.

Yet, you totally discount the fact that one of the attackers said this, "I was born in France. If they didn’t attack other countries, I wouldn’t be here." You are still sipping the MSM kool-aid saying that it was because of the cartoon and "they hate free speech."

Do you also believe that the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi was over a video as well?

AuH20
01-14-2015, 02:41 PM
That doesn't explain your reference to an "inferiority complex."

Why else would you attack a relatively powerless 'gag oriented' newspaper? If your contention is with the warmongers, take it to their doorstep. You're telling me that they couldn't find the address to a NATO base?

twomp
01-14-2015, 02:44 PM
Why else would you attack a relatively powerless 'gag oriented' newspaper? If your contention is with the warmongers, take it to their doorstep. You're telling me that they couldn't find the address to a NATO base?

So what you are saying is they were stocking up on rocket launchers and weapons waiting for this newspaper to make this cartoon? And never mind what one of the attackers actually said. Just listen to the MSM explanation for it?

acptulsa
01-14-2015, 02:45 PM
Why else would you attack a relatively powerless 'gag oriented' newspaper? If your contention is with the warmongers, take it to their doorstep. You're telling me that they couldn't find the address to a NATO base?

Where was all this Monday morning quarterbacking after the Boston Marathon incident?

If you want them to do it right, go convince them to make you their leader. And if you try to talk them into trading a high profile soft target for a low profile very hard target and they decide you're a spy and shoot you, don't come crying to us.

AuH20
01-14-2015, 02:46 PM
So what you are saying is they were stocking up on rocket launchers and weapons waiting for this newspaper to make this cartoon?

I think they were blindly lashing out at low hanging fruit attempting to make a political statement of some sort but have actually exacerbated the situation. People generally despise absolute bullies, whether they be imperial or of the Muslim persuasion.

twomp
01-14-2015, 02:48 PM
I think they were blindly lashing out at low hanging fruit attempting to make a political statement of some sort but have actually exacerbated the situation.

Acptulsa brings up a good point. Do you consider the Boston Bombings a case of blowback? Or do you have a theory that muslims are offended by people who run at marathons?

AuH20
01-14-2015, 02:49 PM
Acptulsa brings up a good point. Do you consider the Boston Bombings a case of blowback? Or do you have a theory that muslims are offended by people who run at marathons?

Blowback. There isn't any fundamental religious angle to be gleaned.

twomp
01-14-2015, 02:50 PM
I think they were blindly lashing out at low hanging fruit attempting to make a political statement of some sort but have actually exacerbated the situation. People generally despise absolute bullies, whether they be imperial or of the Muslim persuasion.

Any killing of people whether government employees or not would have exacerbated the situation. The MSM would guarantee that. Even if they killed 12 people on a NATO base.

acptulsa
01-14-2015, 02:50 PM
I think they were blindly lashing out at low hanging fruit attempting to make a political statement of some sort ...

Thought of that all by yourself, did you...?


...but have actually exacerbated the situation.

You figure France will send extra bombers over Syria because two French nationals attacked a Paris storefront?

twomp
01-14-2015, 02:51 PM
Blowback. There isn't any fundamental religious angle to be gleaned.

But the Boston marathon doesn't create any policy? I don't get it.... They couldn't find an address to a military base?

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 02:53 PM
Blowback?

https://www.youtube.com/v/yJEvlKKm6og

Think again.

TheCount
01-14-2015, 02:54 PM
Or do you have a theory that muslims are offended by people who run at marathons?

Maybe it's an inferiority complex because not enough Muslims win.

AuH20
01-14-2015, 02:55 PM
But the Boston marathon doesn't create any policy? I don't get it.... They couldn't find an address to a military base?

It's possibly the 2nd most visible race in the country attracting half a million runners. How many employees did Charlie Hebdo employ? less than 50?

twomp
01-14-2015, 02:56 PM
It's possibly the 2nd most visible race in the country. How many employees did Charlie Hebdo employ? less than 50?

Really? I didn't see 40 world leaders come to a parade in Boston, did you? Seems like a lot of visibility to me.

AuH20
01-14-2015, 02:56 PM
You figure France will send extra bombers over Syria because two French nationals attacked a Paris storefront?

No, their honeymoon period in France is over. Public sympathy is gone. It's funny that in this deluded chap's mind that this attack will somehow result in more Muslim friendly reforms when in actuality it will produce the opposite.

AuH20
01-14-2015, 03:02 PM
Maybe it's an inferiority complex because not enough Muslims win.

getting your ass kicked for more than a century and having your ancestral homelands usurped creates an inferiority complex. This is the well of discontent that they are drawing from I suspect.

enhanced_deficit
01-14-2015, 03:05 PM
Attacking a nonconformist newspaper not affiliated with the French government is considered blowback? I'm trying to get my head around this one. Either these terrorists were just dimwitted or...

You is not alone in not understanding irrational actions in blowbacks, to this day I have not been able to understand invasion of Iraq after wtc1/2/7 attacks as it had nothing to do with Al Qaeda.

In this case there are rumors that this mag was affiliated with Zionists.
If it was indeed the case, would that help understand phenomenon of blowback?

twomp
01-14-2015, 03:07 PM
No, their honeymoon period in France is over. Public sympathy is gone. It's funny that in this deluded chap's mind that this attack will somehow result in more Muslim friendly reforms when in actuality it will produce the opposite.

Oh please, you act like you know so much. This is the reason people fly airplanes into buildings or put on a bomb vest and walk into a crowd. They are fed up. I doubt there was any delusion that there would be "friendly Muslim reforms" from this. You are just being ignorant. I wonder how many friend and family of yours or how many American women, children and civilians would be killed before you snap.

Oh let me guess, you wouldn't snap because you are better than everyone else.

twomp
01-14-2015, 03:09 PM
You is not alone in not understanding irrational actions in blowbacks, to this day I have not been able to understand invasion of Iraq after wtc1/2/7 attacks as it had nothing to do with Al Qaeda.

In this case there are rumors that this mag was affiliated with Zionists.
If it was indeed the case, would that help understand phenomenon of blowback?

He is being irrational himself. He says that the newspaper doesn't influence government policy so it can't be blow back. Then, he says the Boston marathon was blow back even though the Boston marathon doesn't influence government policy...

And in his world, both his statements make perfect logical sense.

AuH20
01-14-2015, 03:09 PM
Oh please, you act like you know so much. This is the reason people fly airplanes into buildings or put on a bomb vest and walk into a crowd. They are fed up. I doubt there was any delusion that there would be "friendly Muslim reforms" from this. You are just being ignorant. I wonder how many friend and family of yours or how many American women, children and civilians would be killed before you snap.

Oh let me guess, you wouldn't snap because you are better than everyone else.

There is nothing wrong with snapping. Snapping over deities isn't my thing. The religion and injustices are all tied up into the same big package. The religion fuels the response in a majority of these cases. In fact, it amplifies it.

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 03:10 PM
getting your ass kicked for more than a century and having your ancestral homelands usurped creates an inferiority complex.

You are referring to France?

I seem to remember the US getting drawn into their fiasco in Vietnam.

AuH20
01-14-2015, 03:13 PM
You are referring to France?

I seem to remember the US getting drawn into their fiasco in Vietnam.

I'm talking about the Middle East population. You factor in the general state of affairs brewing there for decades, combine it with the batshit literal teachings of the Quran and finally throw in some American greenbacks from your favorite alphabet agency, and voila!

twomp
01-14-2015, 03:13 PM
It wasn't blow back. They hate the French because they are "free."

acptulsa
01-14-2015, 03:13 PM
There is nothing wrong with snapping. Snapping over deities isn't my thing. The religion and injustices are all tied up into the same big package.

We explain to you thirty-seven or thirty-eight ways this is over how Muslim people are systematically dehumanized and their systematic dehumanization is then ignored by the rest of society, and you shake it off your downy back and don't collect two hundred dollars because no matter how many times you roll the dice you refuse to budge from "Go"--otherwise known as Square One.

You don't need a computer and an internet connection to talk to yourself, and you won't listen to anyone else. Why flatten your fingertips?

twomp
01-14-2015, 03:14 PM
I'm talking about the Middle East population. You factor in the general state of affairs brewing there for decades, combine it with the batshit literal teachings of the Quran and finally throw in some American greenbacks from your favorite alphabet agency, and voila!

Sounds like a formula for World War 3!

The Gold Standard
01-14-2015, 03:19 PM
A general inferiority complex that has been manifested into displacement? I can't think of anything else to explain this attack. The newspaper doesn't make policy.

Let me help you understand. One night you are finished watching Hannity and are extra fed up with the Muslims, so you grab your shotgun and go out to take some out. You see a local mosque packed for some kind of function, and head over there with bad intentions. When you walk in the door the first guy you see says "Fuck you American asshole". Who are you going to kill first?

Those guys were going to kill someone. Hedbo gave them the finger and made it an easy choice.

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 03:19 PM
It wasn't blow back. They hate the French because they are "free."

It wasn't Blowback. It was faked.

Watch the video.. NO HEAD SHOT.. It is a lie.

https://www.youtube.com/v/yJEvlKKm6og

You are lied to.

acptulsa
01-14-2015, 03:20 PM
Sounds like a formula for World War 3!

Not without that black flammable liquid it doesn't--a little thing AuH2O is pretending doesn't even enter into it.

They keep attacking us because Mohammed said to and we keep attacking them first because... Because...

You know, he never really explains that part. If it isn't to feed his Hummer, what is it? Blowback from the Crusades?

And the best part is that I know that I could say something about either Jesus or Reagan that would cause him to throw his computer monitor out the window.

twomp
01-14-2015, 03:24 PM
It wasn't Blowback. It was faked.

Watch the video.. NO HEAD SHOT.. It is a lie.

https://www.youtube.com/v/yJEvlKKm6og

You are lied to.

WOW! That was interesting! You should embed that video

AuH20
01-14-2015, 03:28 PM
Not without that black flammable liquid it doesn't--a little thing AuH2O is pretending doesn't even enter into it.

They keep attacking us because Mohammed said to and we keep attacking them first because... Because...

You know, he never really explains that part. If it isn't to feed his Hummer, what is it? Blowback from the Crusades?

And the best part is that I know that I could say something about either Jesus or Reagan that would cause him to throw his computer monitor out the window.

Huh? Reagan, the same guy who augmented Social Security?

Who do you think you are conversing with? LOL

twomp
01-14-2015, 03:28 PM
Not without that black flammable liquid it doesn't--a little thing AuH2O is pretending doesn't even enter into it.

They keep attacking us because Mohammed said to and we keep attacking them first because... Because...

You know, he never really explains that part. If it isn't to feed his Hummer, what is it? Blowback from the Crusades?

And the best part is that I know that I could say something about either Jesus or Reagan that would cause him to throw his computer monitor out the window.

LOL our government attacks them first for democracy. When they get fed up at the silence of the media and the western world, they snap. We scratch our heads and say they are crazy and their religion is crazy. Their religion has been around for more than a thousand years but they have only been going "crazy" for the past 50 or so. I wonder what happened? The Quran just got an update? Like a windows patch?

enhanced_deficit
01-14-2015, 03:32 PM
It wasn't Blowback. It was faked.

Watch the video.. NO HEAD SHOT.. It is a lie.

https://www.youtube.com/v/yJEvlKKm6og

You are lied to.

This does raise questions about the video but lets wait till MSM has responded to these questions.

It was bit odd that NYT within hours had posted such a clear video of gun violence on its youtoob channel , was top search result, but US media is not allowed work for agencies or publish fake videos afaik.
Also, what do they gain if this was a fake/FF?
In case goal was to give CH staff new identities for their safety as was done for a US cartonist, couldn't that be done without this spectacular drama?
What does a French paper owned by a French-Israeli zionist Edurdo Rothschild gain from this exercise .. if it was indeed a fake?

There is many questions, lets wait till all the facts come out in MSM.

charrob
01-14-2015, 03:38 PM
Is the magazine carrying water for imperialistic interventionism by dehumanizing and belittling the imperialists' favorite target?

[+1]. Really good response; militaries always dehumanize their enemy. And citizens via 'news' propaganda dehumanize them as well; otherwise paying taxes for offensive war would be unconscionable for any decent person with ethical standards. Plus high school students considering military careers are persuaded to join the military because of this de-humanization propaganda.

The 9/11 attackers chose military targets: ie. Wall Street (who funds the wars), the Pentagon, and I think the third plane was headed for the White House. Our corporate news has become nothing but mouth pieces for the MIC -- if the 9/11 attackers attacked a U.S. news station like Fox, CNN, etc., in a sense it would be like attacking a military target since 98% of Americans get their news (and views) from these 6 mouthpieces for the MIC. If these news stations slandered the Muslim religion and the American people were not, at the same time, paying to harm Muslims with their taxes, I really doubt Muslims overseas would care.

acptulsa
01-14-2015, 03:39 PM
What does a French paper owned by a French-Israeli zionist Edurdo Rothschild gain from this exercise ...

You mean besides a further unwitting support for more bloody defense of the petrodollar and more Syrian oil for the oil companies he has undoubtedly invested in?

Well, Silverstein and the New York Port Authority got rid of a couple of asbestos-laden buildings and a fat insurance check in their stead...

jmdrake
01-14-2015, 04:43 PM
A general inferiority complex that has been manifested into displacement? I can't think of anything else to explain this attack. The newspaper doesn't make policy.

The World Trade Center didn't make policy either. I guess Ron Paul is just 100% wrong about blowback and we all should have voted for Giuliani. What on earth were we thinking? :rolleyes:

jmdrake
01-14-2015, 04:47 PM
It wasn't Blowback. It was faked.

Watch the video.. NO HEAD SHOT.. It is a lie.

https://www.youtube.com/v/yJEvlKKm6og

You are lied to.

Was that fake headshot the the Muslim policeman?

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 05:19 PM
The Quran just got an update? Like a windows patch?

Actually the Saudi Produced Quran did get updates.
http://www.islamicpluralism.org/1091/rewriting-quran

The most obvious window into the theology taught at Ibn-Saud Islamic University is the Wahhabi Koran, an edition of the Islamic scripture, with commentary, printed in every major European, Asian, and African language in paperback editions that are distributed free or at low cost throughout the world (and are available on the web at www.kuran.gen.tr/html/english3). The fifteenth revised edition of this work was published as The Noble Qur'ân in the English Language by Darussalam Publishers and Distributors in Riyadh in 1996. The translators are Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali and Muhammad Muhsin Khan, both affiliated with another extremist institution, the Islamic University of Medina, two of whose faculty members are also among the educators being hosted by the State Department.

Now, I am not Muslim and have not studied the book,, but I have heard from those that do that the Noble Quran is largely responsible for the corruption and radicalization of the religion.

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 05:21 PM
Was that fake headshot the the Muslim policeman?

That was a clear miss.. if not a blank charge.

That man was NOT shot in the head as has been reported.
and that brings the rest of the story into question.

twomp
01-14-2015, 05:41 PM
Actually the Saudi Produced Quran did get updates.
http://www.islamicpluralism.org/1091/rewriting-quran


Now, I am not Muslim and have not studied the book,, but I have heard from those that do that the Noble Quran is largely responsible for the corruption and radicalization of the religion.

Thanks for the interesting reference. Here is a little more on info on Wahhabism. The Saudi Arabia version of the Quran that is NOT followed by the majority of muslims but is the source of all these violent references.

You Can't Understand ISIS If You Don't Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia


The American author and journalist, Steven Coll, has written how this austere and censorious disciple of the 14th century scholar Ibn Taymiyyah, Abd al-Wahhab, despised "the decorous, arty, tobacco smoking, hashish imbibing, drum pounding Egyptian and Ottoman nobility who travelled across Arabia to pray at Mecca."

In Abd al-Wahhab's view, these were not Muslims; they were imposters masquerading as Muslims. Nor, indeed, did he find the behavior of local Bedouin Arabs much better. They aggravated Abd al-Wahhab by their honoring of saints, by their erecting of tombstones, and their "superstition" (e.g. revering graves or places that were deemed particularly imbued with the divine).

All this behavior, Abd al-Wahhab denounced as bida -- forbidden by God.

Like Taymiyyah before him, Abd al-Wahhab believed that the period of the Prophet Muhammad's stay in Medina was the ideal of Muslim society (the "best of times"), to which all Muslims should aspire to emulate (this, essentially, is Salafism).

Taymiyyah had declared war on Shi'ism, Sufism and Greek philosophy. He spoke out, too against visiting the grave of the prophet and the celebration of his birthday, declaring that all such behavior represented mere imitation of the Christian worship of Jesus as God (i.e. idolatry). Abd al-Wahhab assimilated all this earlier teaching, stating that "any doubt or hesitation" on the part of a believer in respect to his or her acknowledging this particular interpretation of Islam should "deprive a man of immunity of his property and his life."

Read the rest here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html

fr33
01-14-2015, 05:48 PM
Do you also try to rationalize why people shoot up malls, schools and movie theaters?

Is that not what you're doing?

fr33
01-14-2015, 05:52 PM
Apparently the shooters thought this magazine was a high priority government target. It's been sued, firebombed, a fatwa hit placed against it in the past, and then a mass shooting. No nothing to do with what the magazine was putting out at all. Every other business in France puts up with this regularly. /s

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 06:04 PM
Sounds like a formula for World War 3!

I expect so.

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

twomp
01-14-2015, 06:36 PM
Apparently the shooters thought this magazine was a high priority government target. It's been sued, firebombed, a fatwa hit placed against it in the past, and then a mass shooting. No nothing to do with what the magazine was putting out at all. Every other business in France puts up with this regularly. /s

So you are saying the shooters were the ones who sued this magazine and firebombed it then put a fatwa hit on it as well? Or are you just lumping all muslims together?

twomp
01-14-2015, 06:37 PM
Is that not what you're doing?

I am just going by the quote of what ONE OF THE SHOOTERS SAID? Have you read that quote yet? I mean why listen to what he actually said right? We should just come up with our own theory with help from the MSM?

They hate the french because they are "free."

twomp
01-14-2015, 06:39 PM
Apparently the shooters thought this magazine was a high priority government target. It's been sued, firebombed, a fatwa hit placed against it in the past, and then a mass shooting. No nothing to do with what the magazine was putting out at all. Every other business in France puts up with this regularly. /s

By the way, do you think the Boston marathon was a result of blow back?

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 06:42 PM
By the way, do you think the Boston marathon was a result of blow back?

NO.
I think it was staged.

twomp
01-14-2015, 07:03 PM
NO.
I think it was staged.

Soo.... nobody died there either?

fr33
01-14-2015, 07:11 PM
So you are saying the shooters were the ones who sued this magazine and firebombed it then put a fatwa hit on it as well? Or are you just lumping all muslims together?

Muslims lump themselves together dude. When you join a religion, you join a group. Sure some in the group are crazier than others but all of those acts came from the same group.


I am just going by the quote of what ONE OF THE SHOOTERS SAID? Have you read that quote yet? I mean why listen to what he actually said right? We should just come up with our own theory with help from the MSM?

They hate the french because they are "free."Like I said, every French business is under attack like this. Nothing to do with the content of the magazine at all. /s


By the way, do you think the Boston marathon was a result of blow back?Yes.

twomp
01-14-2015, 07:14 PM
Muslims lump themselves together dude. When you join a religion, you join a group. Sure some in the group are crazier than others but all of those acts came from the same group.

Like I said, every French business is under attack like this. Nothing to do with the content of the magazine at all. /s

Yes.

So why was the Boston marathon bombing considered blow back in your opinion? It is not a "government" target.

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 07:23 PM
Soo.... nobody died there either?

I did not say that.
I said it was staged.. I did not say nothing happened..

just not what we are led to believe.

Some may have died in France too.. but that cop was NOT shot in the head..

That was a lie. a deliberate lie. so the rest of the story is questionable.

HOLLYWOOD
01-14-2015, 07:32 PM
100% COINTELPRO ...exactly which sanctioned bod(ies) committed the acts, that's still unknown.

jmdrake
01-14-2015, 07:35 PM
I did not say that.
I said it was staged.. I did not say nothing happened..

just not what we are led to believe.

Some may have died in France too.. but that cop was NOT shot in the head..

That was a lie. a deliberate lie. so the rest of the story is questionable.

He wasn't shot in the head a that moment. He was probably shot later.

fr33
01-14-2015, 07:43 PM
So why was the Boston marathon bombing considered blow back in your opinion? It is not a "government" target.

Because the marathon was slice of all virtually types of Americans at a public event. Sure blowback can play a role in Charlie Hebdo. If not for the history of targetting cartoonists, I'd say it was the sole reason. But that's not the case.

fr33
01-14-2015, 07:44 PM
Nothing's real maaan. Anytime someone is dead in the news it's a false flag.

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 07:49 PM
He was probably shot later.

Perhaps,, but by who?

And were the patsys even there? (were the masked men(actors) the men that were killed for it?)

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 07:51 PM
Nothing's real maaan. Anytime someone is dead in the news it's a false flag.

The Cop was not shot in the head (as was claimed). That was a lie. There is video of that.

That brings the rest of the story into question.

idiom
01-14-2015, 11:06 PM
The Cop was not shot in the head (as was claimed). That was a lie. There is video of that.

That brings the rest of the story into question.

It brings the ability of reporters to get details right into question, but that was never something anyone believed in in the first place right?

pcosmar
01-14-2015, 11:52 PM
It brings the ability of reporters to get details right into question, but that was never something anyone believed in in the first place right?

The claim,,is that he was shot in the head. If he was,, it was by someone unknown and after the attack ended.

He was clearly not shot in the head BY THESE MASKED MEN.
So,, Did these guys shoot anyone?

I would have to see the sidewalk to be sure,, but it looked like he fired a blank round..

Were they all blanks? I don't know.

https://www.youtube.com/v/yJEvlKKm6og

Ender
01-15-2015, 01:11 AM
fr33: Muslims lump themselves together dude. When you join a religion, you join a group. Sure some in the group are crazier than others but all of those acts came from the same group.

Not true- there as many different sects of Muslims as there are Christians. There is no way a Catholic is going to "lump" together with a Christian Scientist.

If a Baptist commits a crime, shall we blame the Mormons?

fr33
01-15-2015, 01:14 AM
Not true- there as many different sects of Muslims as there are Christians. There is no way a Catholic is going to "lump" together with a Christian Scientist.

If a Baptist commits a crime, shall we blame the Mormons?
It is true. If Muslims, Baptists, or Catholics aren't part of their group, then what the fuck are they. Oh you said "sects". My point still stands.

fr33
01-15-2015, 01:17 AM
Not true- there as many different sects of Muslims as there are Christians. There is no way a Catholic is going to "lump" together with a Christian Scientist.

If a Baptist commits a crime, shall we blame the Mormons?

The people that sued Charlie Hebdo multiple times. The people that bombed them. The people that issued a fatwa against them. The people that killed 12 of their employees. All Muslims. According to you it's all just a coincidence and could have happened to any Frenchman at any given moment because of blowback. Nope. Not buying it.

twomp
01-15-2015, 02:19 AM
Because the marathon was slice of all virtually types of Americans at a public event. Sure blowback can play a role in Charlie Hebdo. If not for the history of targetting cartoonists, I'd say it was the sole reason. But that's not the case.

I'm not saying the cartoons played no role in the attack. What I am saying is that these people had rpg's and weapons stored up for an attack. The cartoons gave them a target. They would have attacked somewhere anyways. Unless you are under the impression that they saw those cartoons, bought some rpgs and weapons (not an easy task in France) and when went on a rampage simply because of the cartoons?

PRB
01-15-2015, 02:45 AM
it's also a false flag

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/january/14/charlie-hebdo-shootings-false-flag/

pcosmar
01-15-2015, 04:44 PM
If Muslims, Baptists, or Catholics aren't part of their group, then what the fuck are they.

Individuals.

Lucille
01-15-2015, 04:51 PM
http://original.antiwar.com/lucy/2015/01/14/victims-of-war-and-terror-lose-their-individuality/


Former Rep. Ron Paul said that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were about blowback. Free speech advocates, even some libertarian ones are doubtful. Hebdo leaned fairly left and so had many sympathies for anti-interventionist and traditionally lefty causes. They did, however, blaspheme against Muhammed. One of the terrorists said he and his comrades were "defenders of the prophet." However, he also mentioned the west’s violent actions in the Middle East. Are we to believe one half the motivation only? Or that Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula does not have political goals, even if they consider them partially in terms of revenge against insulters of Mohammed?