View Full Version : How Obamacare Forced Me To Be Dependent On The State
IanCioffi
01-13-2015, 12:08 PM
Source: LibertyChat.com (http://www.libertychat.com/2015/01/obamacare-forced-dependent-state/)
As a libertarian, I am vehemently opposed to government control of my life. I wrote about how the Affordable Care Act was a violation of our Constitutional rights in my book Blessed Are They That Hunger a full 2 years before it was implemented. I discussed just two aspects of the law that would hamper our freedom as Americans. The fact that the government would make it illegal to be uninsured and the fact that religious organizations would be forced to provide birth control in violation of the tenets of their faith were clear violations of our religious and personal freedoms as protected by the Constitution.
Since its implementation both of these issues have been bandied about by the media and there have been a multitude of court cases brought on by religious based organizations and corporations refusing to comply with the law.
There are more insidious ramifications of the ACA-like appointed committees determining who will receive certain procedures-(or as they have been termed “death squads”) that have not even come to light yet, but will as the “roll out” continues.
Because of these issues, I opted to avoid the “exchange” when my insurance was cancelled because it did not meet the ACA requirements. I opted to “keep my Insurance” and stay out of the ACA exchange in my state. This meant paying more than double the premium for a plan that would give me comparable coverage that would allow me to “keep my doctor”.
I bit the bullet and tightened my belt to accommodate the large insurance premium that I was forced to pay. Everything was fine, until I had an auto accident in July and had to shell out a $500 deductible for my car. The budget just couldn’t handle that plus my nearly $500 per month health insurance premium. I got behind and was one day late on paying my premium. (I was not one day late really, I paid it on the due date, but they applied it a day later and my insurance was cancelled.)
Once it was cancelled, I could not re-enroll until November, for insurance that would not be effective until January 2015. So now, thanks to the ACA, I- a person who was insured before the ACA -was suddenly, uninsured. Hey, wait a minute- wasn’t Obamacare supposed to get more people insured?
READ MORE (http://www.libertychat.com/2015/01/obamacare-forced-dependent-state/)
muh_roads
01-13-2015, 12:10 PM
People need to lay off the birth control arguments. That isn't going to win over liberals to our side. There are plenty of shitty things about Obamacare to talk about with people.
ZENemy
01-13-2015, 12:11 PM
A tax strike will stop Obamacare in its tracks. I will not be paying it ever.
I am self employed, keep no money in the banks.
phill4paul
01-13-2015, 12:26 PM
A tax strike will stop Obamacare in its tracks. I will not be paying it ever.
I am self employed, keep no money in the banks.
This.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ZENemy again.
ZENemy
01-13-2015, 12:30 PM
This.
Thanks man.
Its very clear to me, the ACA is going nowhere unless we stop it.
I wish my brothers and sisters did not love their chains so much because I would love to be free.
Tax resistance in the women’s suffrage movement was the move that finally turned the tides for women's voting in Britain.
https://sniggle.net/TPL/index5.php?entry=14Dec04
kahless
01-13-2015, 01:43 PM
We had the chance to stop it and many sat on their ass. Even in these forums I and others posted threads about the penalty, actual excerpts from the law and except for a few die hards here many did not seem to give a shit.
This and the newsletter handling were the top things that really pissed me off about Ron and his campaign. Why the hell he did not try to seize on this issue when so many across party lines were looking for someone to take the lead on this. The protests were being covered across the MSM. Ron or whomever advised him seem to be going out of their way to intentionally lose.
Ron may have even won the nomination or at least given Romney a run for his money and a speaking spot at the Convention if he spent more time on this one issue people were screaming about across party lines.
With that said, now it is too late. You can't simply just eliminate it since we have gotten so royally screwed with it's passage we would be screwing ourselves more by canceling it while not addressing the damage it caused.
For example people that would have kept there existing plan had to change their plan since they could not afford the new Obamacare premiums or the plan was eliminated. If Obamacare is then canceled along with coverage of pre-existing condition those whom were forced to switch their plan due to Obamacare would no longer have their pre-existing condition covered and would be left without treatment to suffer or die.
DamianTV
01-13-2015, 08:08 PM
A tax strike will stop Obamacare in its tracks. I will not be paying it ever.
I am self employed, keep no money in the banks.
Normally, I'd agree with you since a Tax Strike is a form of Non Violent Revolution through Disobedience. However, due to the Federal Reserve Bank, their coffers will NEVER run dry, even though the value of our fiat currency may soon completely evaporate. Unfortunately, I have no alternative suggestions to fix the problem and usually just keep quiet at this point.
angelatc
01-13-2015, 08:25 PM
nated. If Obamacare is then canceled along with coverage of pre-existing condition those whom were forced to switch their plan due to Obamacare would no longer have their pre-existing condition covered and would be left without treatment to suffer or die.
Bullshit.
kahless
01-13-2015, 11:39 PM
Bullshit.
Of course you selectively snipped the part "by canceling it while not addressing the damage it caused." You are better than that.
Do you understand that people were staying with their insurance provider because their pre-existing condition was covered PRIOR to Obamacare. If they lost coverage PRIOR to Obamacare they would not have their pre-existing condition covered with their new insurance so they maintained the same provider to ensure pre-existing coverage.
When Obamacare came along they either could not pay the higher premiums due to Obamacare or had their plan canceled. If you spent any time following the MSM they did in fact blast Obama for "if you like your plan you can keep your plan" which turned out not to be true.
From what I understand since Obamacare now forced providers to cover pre-existing conditions it was then okay to switch. But now if you eliminate Obamacare without addressing it these people that switched their plan would be screwed.
I do not have this issue but this is the complaint I am hearing from friends and family that do. Without insurance they would be able to afford their life saving medications or medical care.
If they are wrong it would have been nice to come here receive a response why this is wrong instead of "bullshit". So care to explain why this is wrong?
angelatc
01-14-2015, 03:59 PM
Without insurance they would be able to afford their life saving medications or medical care.
If they are wrong it would have been nice to come here receive a response why this is wrong instead of "bullshit". So care to explain why this is wrong?
They didn't die before Obamacare, and they wouldn't die if it got repealed. Which it won't, because the GOP is freaking useless.
kahless
01-14-2015, 05:20 PM
They didn't die before Obamacare, and they wouldn't die if it got repealed. Which it won't, because the GOP is freaking useless.
They did not die before Obamacare because their pre-existing condition was covered by their plan so their life saving medications were covered. It all depends on how they handle the transition. You cannot simply cancel it without addressing the things it broke or will break if it had not been passed in the first place.
DamianTV
01-14-2015, 05:30 PM
Dependancy = Control
What better way is there to control a people and manipulate them to do things that violate their consciouses than to make them dependant on the parasites?
angelatc
01-14-2015, 07:02 PM
They did not die before Obamacare because their pre-existing condition was covered by their plan so their life saving medications were covered. It all depends on how they handle the transition. You cannot simply cancel it without addressing the things it broke or will break if it had not been passed in the first place.
Pull the band aid off fast, and get the pain over with. People will not cease having insurance the minute the law is repealed.
ghengis86
01-14-2015, 07:44 PM
Pull the band aid off fast, and get the pain over with. People will not cease having insurance the minute the law is repealed.
Why the hell are you even arguing with this imbecilic idea? For fucks sake, how ever did people live without 'health insurance'? Were they dying in waves because their doctors refused cash and only accepted grossly discounted reimbursement for their inflated 'list' cost of services? We are seriously fucked if this is what passes as critical thinking in America.
DamianTV
01-14-2015, 08:14 PM
Why the hell are you even arguing with this imbecilic idea? For fucks sake, how ever did people live without 'health insurance'? Were they dying in waves because their doctors refused cash and only accepted grossly discounted reimbursement for their inflated 'list' cost of services? We are seriously fucked if this is what passes as critical thinking in America.
Dinosaurs were NOT killed off by an Asteroid, contrary to popular belief, they died off because they didnt have Health Insurance! :p
kahless
01-14-2015, 09:33 PM
I take it responses are from those without health problems or that are far removed from knowing people that would not live without their life saving medications that are paid for through their insurance carrier.
Those that were forced to switch have some concerns and I don't blame them. You do not take away peoples health insurance that they paid into, force them into something else with Obamacare and then take away all their options. To me that sounds like a logical concern for people in that situation to have.
What Ron describes would not happen over night and correct me if I am wrong here but I thought he also supported a free market for health insurance. These things however take time to transition.
Pull the band aid off fast, and get the pain over with. People will not cease having insurance the minute the law is repealed.
Until they get that letter in the mail that says you still have insurance but we will no longer cover your pre-existing condition.
ghengis86
01-14-2015, 09:43 PM
I take it responses are from those without health problems or that are far removed from knowing people that would not live without their life saving medications that are paid for through their insurance carrier.
Those that were forced to switch have some concerns and I don't blame them. You do not take away peoples health insurance that they paid into, force them into something else with Obamacare and then take away all their options. To me that sounds like a logical concern for people in that situation to have.
What Ron describes would not happen over night and correct me if I am wrong here but I thought he also supported a free market for health insurance. These things however take time to transition.
I take it from your response that your are not healthy or are far removed from the burden of being forced to pay for people who are not healthy, even though the person footing the bill is completely healthy themselves.
Those that were forced to pay for unhealthy people, even those that did it to themselves (obesity, smoking, drinking, etc.) have some concerns and I don't blame them. You don't force a person to buy a product that they don't need and in turn subsidize and pay for someone else to get that product and then force them to continue to do so against their will. To me, that is a logical concern.
Ron supports a free market in healthcare, which may or may not include "insurance"; it's up to the market to decide if that service provides the most efficient allocation of capital. There's a difference between healthcare and "health insurance".
kahless
01-14-2015, 10:27 PM
I take it from your response that your are not healthy or are far removed from the burden of being forced to pay for people who are not healthy, even though the person footing the bill is completely healthy themselves.
Those that were forced to pay for unhealthy people, even those that did it to themselves (obesity, smoking, drinking, etc.) have some concerns and I don't blame them. You don't force a person to buy a product that they don't need and in turn subsidize and pay for someone else to get that product and then force them to continue to do so against their will. To me, that is a logical concern.
You did not read my full posts, I already said I do not have these issues and was speaking of people that are telling me their concerns whom are in that position. These people PAID for their health insurance before Obamacare, PAID with Obamacare and may get screwed after Obamacare is cancelled.
Sounds like folks here are so hung up on people getting free health insurance they fail to see how it effects everyone including those whom are paying for health insurance. I was speaking of people getting screwed a 2nd time after it gets canceled.
Ron supports a free market in healthcare, which may or may not include "insurance"; it's up to the market to decide if that service provides the most efficient allocation of capital. There's a difference between healthcare and "health insurance".
Your preaching to the choir. I have been in these forums since 2007.
The Free Hornet
01-15-2015, 02:56 AM
We had the chance to stop it and many sat on their ass. Even in these forums I and others posted threads about the penalty, actual excerpts from the law and except for a few die hards - blah blah blah...
With that said, now it is too late. You can't simply just eliminate it since we have gotten so royally screwed with it's passage we would be screwing ourselves more by canceling it while not addressing the damage it caused.
So you don't understand the problem - eg AMA, patents, FDA/DEA, import restrictions - yet you believe you or we could have won ... what? Nothing. And you have given up too.
Anti Federalist
01-15-2015, 05:01 AM
How Obamacare Forced Me To Be Dependent On The State
Mission Accomplished, mundanes.
Move along now.
DamianTV
01-15-2015, 05:47 AM
Mission Accomplished, mundanes.
Move along now.
Cant move. Too many Bums (Unemployed) in front of me in the Unemployment Line.
kahless
01-15-2015, 09:35 AM
So you don't understand the problem - eg AMA, patents, FDA/DEA, import restrictions - yet you believe you or we could have won ... what? Nothing. And you have given up too.
I was behind Ron for all that but when it came down to it, when this issue was front and center for most people where were they is all I was saying. He believed in a transition and campaigned allowing insurance providers to compete across state lines so don't give me some crap that his long term view would be in effect from day one.
This issue was huge for most people across party lines. Santorum would not have received the numbers he did if he did not see that opening and seize on it before Iowa.
Saying we would be screwing ourselves more by simply canceling while not addressing the damage it caused is not giving up. It is being wise enough not to let the government screw us a 2nd time. Not penalizing people that were forced to switch their plan because of Obamacare is one and allowing insurance providers to compete across state lines may at least drop costs so plans do not skyrocket more if it is canceled.
Slave Mentality
01-15-2015, 09:56 AM
It is being wise enough not to let the government screw us a 2nd time.
It is being wise enough to know you are going to get screwed EVERY TIME you involve a government in decisions that should be yours and yours alone. I guarantee you the "fix" for the ACA will be much worse than the original pile of shit and so on and so forth. I can't believe you have been on here since 2007 and are still taking the blue pill. Statists will be Statists I guess.
kahless
01-15-2015, 10:52 AM
It is being wise enough to know you are going to get screwed EVERY TIME you involve a government in decisions that should be yours and yours alone. I guarantee you the "fix" for the ACA will be much worse than the original pile of shit and so on and so forth. I can't believe you have been on here since 2007 and are still taking the blue pill. Statists will be Statists I guess.
If I posted quotes from Ron and Rand as my own you would still be saying I am taking the "blue pill". :rolleyes:
Oh why not lets start with a few of their quotes.
I have long supported making all medical expenses tax deductible, allowing insurance to be bought across state lines, tort reform (state-level), and empowering all citizens to save for health expenses by removing the high-deductible insurance policy requirement to access to Health Savings Accounts .
Statist!!!
* Repeal ObamaCare and end its unconstitutional mandate that all Americans must carry only government-approved health insurance or answer to the IRS.
* Allow purchase of health insurance across state lines.
* Provide tax credits and deductions for all medical expenses.
* Exempt those with terminal illnesses from the employee portion of payroll taxes while they are suffering from such illnesses or are incurring significant medical costs associated with their conditions.
* Give a payroll deduction to any worker who is the primary caregiver for a spouse, parent, or child with a terminal illness.
* Ensure that those harmed during medical treatment receive fair compensation while reducing the burden of costly malpractice litigation on the health care system by providing a tax credit for “negative outcomes” insurance purchased before medical treatment.
* Guarantee that what is taken from taxpayers to pay for Medicare and Medicaid is not raided for other purposes.
* Make all Americans eligible for Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) and remove government-imposed barriers to obtaining HSAs.
* Stop the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) from interfering with Americans’ knowledge of and access to dietary supplements and alternative treatments.
* Prevent federal bureaucrats from tracking every citizen’s medical history from cradle to grave by prohibiting the use of taxpayer funds for a national database of personal health information.
Statist!
People whom were purchasing their own healthcare got screwed with Obamacare and I am saying those changes need to be undone. What is so hard about that to understand since your view on healthcare is just not going to happen any time soon.
My mistake is trying to discuss the intricate details of ACA in a relevant thread and expecting informative responses related to that instead of detached from reality partisan bullshit.
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