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tod evans
01-09-2015, 07:07 AM
From Drudge;


Edward Snowden: Living in Russia Is 'Great'

http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/edward-snowden-living-in-russia-is-great-20150108

Former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden wants his critics to know that living is Russia is "great" and that, despite reports to the contrary, he doesn't need alcohol to enjoy his time there.

"Mike Hayden, former NSA, CIA director ... was talking about how I was—everybody in Russia is miserable," Snowden told journalist James Bamford, according to a transcript of an interview released Thursday. "And I'm going to end up miserable and I'm going to be a drunk and I'm never going to do anything. I don't drink. I've never been drunk in my life. And they talk about Russia like it's the worst place on earth. Russia's great."

Snowden's interview, which contained no new revelations about government spying, took place last June in a Moscow hotel room and will air soon on PBS. The discussion largely focused on U.S. cyber capabilities, but Snowden's favorable comments toward Russia are likely to again irk many of his critics, some of whom have suggested he has been sharing U.S. secrets with the Russian government.

This is not the first time Snowden has appeared to speak approvingly of the increasingly pugilistic country, which spent the better part of the past year chilling its relations with the U.S. after invading part of Ukraine. Last spring Snowden made a surprise appearance at an annual telecast with Russian President Vladimir Putin to ask if the country engaged in mass surveillance of its citizens.

The query gave Putin a chance to refute the suggestion without further challenge, giving the exchange the markings of choreographed propaganda. Snowden later defended the question as an attempt to challenge Putin on surveillance matters.

In the new interview, Snowden also spoke at length about the U.S. being poorly equipped to handle cyberattacks from foreign governments or from sophisticated hackers due to the intelligence community prioritizing offensive capabilities at the expense—and sometimes detriment—of defensive schemes.

"We're creating a system of incentives in our country and for other countries around the world that mimic our behavior or that see it as a tacit authorization for them to perform the same sort of operations," Snowden said. "We're creating a class of Internet security researchers who research vulnerabilities, but then instead of disclosing them to the device manufacturers to get them fixed and to make us more secure, they sell them to secret agencies."

Snowden pointed to the U.S.'s use of the so-called Stuxnet virus in 2010 to cripple an Iranian nuclear facility as an attack that "started this trend" of governments launching aggressive cyber campaigns against one another.

Snowden has been living in Russia since he fled from Hong Kong following his disclosures in June 2013 of intimate details of the NSA's sweeping surveillance programs, including its bulk collection of U.S. phone-call data. He was briefly marooned at a Moscow airport after the U.S. revoked his passport, a standoff that ultimately led to Russia granting him asylum for year, a move widely seen at the time as a further strain on the U.S.'s tense relations with the country.

In August of last year, Russia extended Snowden's asylum by granting him a three-year residency permit. Snowden's longtime girlfriend moved to Moscow to live with him in July.

Several of Snowden's supporters, including former Rep. Ron Paul, have called on the Obama administration to grant Snowden clemency—a suggestion that has routinely been dismissed by senior officials, including Attorney General Eric Holder.

Snowden has said that he cannot return to the U.S. under current espionage law, which he believes would afford him "no chance" of a fair trial, though he has frequently said he misses his home country.

Warlord
01-09-2015, 07:13 AM
Go Snowden! He's putting two fingers up to the establishment

fisharmor
01-09-2015, 07:56 AM
Go Snowden! He's putting two fingers up to the establishment

I do wish what he did was more of a shocker.

specsaregood
01-09-2015, 08:18 AM
I do wish what he did was more of a shocker.

Just wait until RUS puts his face on advertisements encouraging ethnic Russians in the US and others with advanced degrees/skills to move there on work visas and the like.

DamianTV
01-09-2015, 08:24 AM
Snowden did the right thing. The public did not. They still do not seem to give a shit about Privacy or Rights what so ever, which only goes to show how powerful the brainwashing of the MSM has had on those who stand to lose the most.

Spikender
01-09-2015, 09:06 AM
Yes, because Snowden's supposed to just trash talk Russia because it's probably guilty of many of the same crimes as the US.

Russia granted him asylum where the US instead hunted him down as a traitor. Why wouldn't he speak favorably of one while railing the other? Besides, he's simply being a good guest in Russia. Snowden knows far more about the US, so it makes sense for him to be a critic.

Wish I could get all that through the skull of the common man, but they're insidiously thick.

specsaregood
01-09-2015, 09:30 AM
Yes, because Snowden's supposed to just trash talk Russia because it's probably guilty of many of the same crimes as the US.

Russia granted him asylum where the US instead hunted him down as a traitor. Why wouldn't he speak favorably of one while railing the other? Besides, he's simply being a good guest in Russia. Snowden knows far more about the US, so it makes sense for him to be a critic.

Wish I could get all that through the skull of the common man, but they're insidiously thick.

It's also quite possible that he actually likes living there.

AlexAmore
01-09-2015, 08:08 PM
It's also quite possible that he actually likes living there.

I agree with the above poster. We'll probably never really know. If I was living under the direct surveillance of Putin, I certainly wouldn't be trash talking Russia. Also, if I was Putin, it would be in my best interest to make Snowden a very satisfied guest.

I'm still a big Snowden fan, I just understand the pickle that he's in.

fr33
01-09-2015, 11:37 PM
Drudge puts that up to piss off the McCarthyists who still fear the Ruskies and Cubans.

Spikender
01-09-2015, 11:45 PM
It's also quite possible that he actually likes living there.

Didn't say he doesn't like living there. Don't see how what I said conflicts with that idea either.

PaleoPaul
01-09-2015, 11:50 PM
Why would he bad-mouth the country that's hosting him? You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

AngryCanadian
01-10-2015, 02:07 AM
Drudge puts that up to piss off the McCarthyists who still fear the Ruskies and Cubans.



Exactly like i have seen it in some other forums "Russophobia"

fr33
01-10-2015, 02:11 AM
Exactly like i have seen it in some other forums "Russophobia"

Unfortunately it works. I know a lot of people that still fear the paper tiger of communism while still supporting globalism. The Republican party is where well-meaning people give up their ideas about the constitution and instead choose to become the new Roman empire.

McCarthy was one of the worst celebrity govt agents that ever existed. He saved us from no threat but you'll still find stupid mother fuckers on this site defending him.

Spikender
01-10-2015, 05:53 AM
Who on this site defends McCarthy?

osan
01-10-2015, 08:05 AM
I was in the car yesterday as the idiot Beck was interminably whining about how Snowden was now officially a traitor because he said life in Russia was great.

What, pray friggin' tell, would anyone with an IQ higher than single digits expect him to say about life in Russia? If we assume he is not just a monkey playing his part in a presentation for the giant wad of first-world idiots who seem to thrive on grandly moronic political drama, then would it not be a no-brainer to immediately infer that Snowden is pretty well compelled by self-interest to praise his host nation?

All the griping about this reminds me of people who stupidly go on about how Hitler was a "failed artist" and a shitty author. For such people, there is nothing positive to be said about him. Even his superlative demagoguery is discounted by labeling it only as "evil", refusing to give credit even to him, where due. He was indeed a lousy military leader, but he was the penultimate demagogue and he should be recognized for it. But any such cede is viewed by those blindly hating as some sort of praise of the man, which it certainly is not in most cases. Such people are consumed by their hate, which is their right to be, but it exposes them as less-credible because of it.

Is Snowden feeding Russia US secrets? Who knows? It would not surprise me if he were, but once again who could blame him? If we are to believe that Snowden is what is generally asserted, he took his shot in presumed regard for his home in the hope that it would change things for the better. He is now under threat of his very life and the thread by which that life hangs is in the hands of Russia. Under the assumption that Russia is a real and true adversary, which may be assuming too much, anyone smarter than an idiot is going to know that Putin & Co. have given sanctuary in exchange for at least some of those secrets, in advance. I cannot say that I blame either of them. I may not like the fact, all else equal, and I may not like the ultimate result in my own life; but I cannot blame anyone for having acted in what they felt was their own better interest at the time, much as some part of me might be otherwise moved by emotion.


Snowden's longtime girlfriend moved to Moscow to live with him in July.

This bit leads me to wonder. On the one hand, we have a government that not only disregards the Constitution whenever it pleases, but has the false-yet-vastly-sweeping power of PATRIOT and NDAA behind it. Either of these must certainly provide Themme the ability to prevent Snowden's girlfriend from leaving the USA for "national security" reasons. Why would Theye just let her go like that? Theye have demonstrated beyond any argument to the contrary that they do not give a whit about public opinion. When Theye want something, they take it, public opinion be damned.

What, then, is the girlfriend deal really about, I wonder? I cannot imagine that this does not matter to Themme. After all, Theye are petty in such matters beyond the human ability to measure that small. I cannot believe they would allow such an element of the enemy's comfort to rest, unchallenged.

I would also wonder about the woman herself. I can barely imagine that her flight would not hold certain repercussions for her, were she ever to return to the States. Is her love so all-consuming that she would unilaterally up and move there, unbidden? Perhaps, but how likely is that? Did she go for the money? :)

One other thought: the revelations that were flowing like wine not that long ago now appear to have stopped. Has anyone considered the possibility that Russia itself may be behind this? "Comrade Snowdyen, pleasink to stoppink revealink Amyerikanskiy secrets to voorld. Doze secrets now propertyiy of Russia. понимаете, товарищ?"
Take care when making your assumptions about this Snowden thing because we really don't know much about the man, the larger context, the truer motivations of the players, etc. Perhaps things are as they appear. Perhaps they are not.

osan
01-10-2015, 08:38 AM
Snowden did the right thing. The public did not. They still do not seem to give a shit about Privacy or Rights what so ever, which only goes to show how powerful the brainwashing of the MSM has had on those who stand to lose the most.

There is much repworthiness in this ^^^^^.

Just consider with some depth the fact that they tyrant has been "grievously exposed". America, in response, remained still at a time when the NSA chief should have been found mysteriously hanging from his neck under Blackfriar's bridge.

Consider this: could the events surrounding Ed Snowden have been engineered by larger and less visible hands? Yes yes... another conspiracy, but what is one more in a world choking on them? This is by no mean implausible and not even unlikely. In fact, I would give it about even odds as being the likely root basis. Why? What if some brilliant analyst came to Themme and said, "time to test the limits of the waters, and this is how we do it..." Theye wanted to gage public tolerance of their tyrannical acts. This is the smart thing PRECISELY because such information as Snowden's cannot be 100% guaranteed safe from unwanted leaks. Rather than neurotically obsess about how to contain things that cannot be quite completely contained for any of a number of reasons (like, there's just way too much of it), put some of it out there and see how the public reacts. If they go apey, you pull back. If not, you leak a little more - a little bigger - and see what happens. Rinse and repeat until the threshold is approached, then shut off the spigot completely. Is this not what has apparently happened? Where are the hundreds of thousands of revelations? I admit I am not paying strong attention to this as I have more important things in my life, but I think even I would have heard had Eddie leaked a little more. I would also point out that doubtlessly much of the information he pilfered has a shelf-life, yet the oracle is gone dark. Hmmmm...

The other benefit to this approach is further conditioning of the mob to make normal in their minds such activity. This has been going on openly for decades and it has greatly successful. Why would anyone think it is not happening here, as well?

Even if this was not sourced by Themme, i.e., Snowden is exactly that which he appears to be, Theye still benefit so long as the American people do not go over the tipping point.

Now consider this: why has Snowden not endeavored to push the American people over that point? If his goal was really to affect positive change (vis-à-vis "hope and change"), why not just shoot the whole wad and let the chips fall where they may? He went so far in his derring-do... why no farther? Why, all of a sudden, the apparent fear for his own fate? Did he not realize what would befall him before he made his move?

If he is that smart, he has to know that the dribs and drabs method is not buying him safety. If Russia is REALLY his champion, then he is as safe as he can be, under the circumstances, regardless whether he releases it all, in dribs, or not at all. So why not let the feathers fly? Could it be because there is nothing else? Or could it be that he is a controlled asset, loosed upon the world for purposes other than what appear to be the case?

I have no answers, but I surely can come up with some decent questions, and as they come, things seem to get muddier.

osan
01-10-2015, 08:58 AM
Who on this site defends McCarthy?

McCarthy was 100% correct in every accusation he made. Literally, every name on his list turned out to be Kremlin assets. Every last stinking one of them.

He had the Monster by the balls. What would anyone think his fate could possibly be, having attached himself in so unwelcome a manner to so great and vicious a beast as that? Hello?

That said, his methods of dealing with the truth may have been questionable, but one cannot argue with the basis of his actions.

Therefore, the McCarthy deal is not an all-or-nothing affair. There are both positives and negatives to take away from it, rather than all negatives as so many people seem to foolishly decide.

I recognize the undisputed fact that everyone on his infamous little list was a traitor to the American people. Venona proved this beyond any doubt. I also recognize that McCarthy went off like a paranoid tyrant himself, all good intentions notwithstanding. But one should also consider the era in which he acted. We'd only just beaten down Hitler and Hirohito and the cost was pretty staggering on all sides. In the wake of the most appalling war to date, the filthy Soviets had acquired US design specs on nuclear weapons (thank you Ft. Monmouth) and was actively and openly threatening to annihilate America. What, pray tell, was anyone supposed to do about this? it is easy for us to armchair the situation with the benefit of 62 years of hindsight, but I wonder what any of us would have done had we been in his place at that time, knowing what he knew? Remember that the American people turned against him because they did not know what he knew. The truth was very effectively withheld from Joe Meaner and the propaganda machine did its thing with great alacrity - so much so that the lies and bullshit about McCarthy not only persist to this day, but seem to evoke the same level of hatred as they did back then.

If your better interests are important to you, it then behooves one to put the brakes on the gut responses and start using the brain as something more than a hat rack. :)

Zippyjuan
01-10-2015, 11:20 PM
Has Snowden changed his mind? http://www.techtimes.com/articles/13153/20140815/snowden-ill-do-jail-time-if-u-s-lets-me-come-back-home.htm


Snowden: I'll do jail time if U.S. lets me come back home

It appears National Security Advisor whistleblower Edward Snowden wants to come home to the United States. After over a year in hiding in the Russian capital, Moscow, Snowden says in a interview he would be willing to do prison time if he were allowed to return to his native country. The latest comes as his visa in Russia has run out and his status remains in limbo.

The NSA has demanded Snowden's extradition back to the U.S. over his involvement in the leaking of classified American government documents that revealed a massive surveillance operation by the NSA.


Snowden has not kept quiet during his time in Russia, continuing to lash out at the NSA as well as other international players, including Russia. In a national television appearance, Snowden questioned Russian President Vladimir Putin over surveillance of his country's citizens.

UWDude
01-10-2015, 11:50 PM
Has Snowden changed his mind? http://www.techtimes.com/articles/13153/20140815/snowden-ill-do-jail-time-if-u-s-lets-me-come-back-home.htm


Ope, I knew we'd see zippy around this topic. See, he tried to tell me Snowden was unhappy in Russia about three days ago, and posted an article that said Snowden wanted to come back to the U.S., about 6 months old.

Of course, the CIA, and NSA, zippy's gods, if not employers, want you to think he is unhappy. Well, they'd rather you think he was being tortured now, like we all know Bradley Manning was, but unfortunately, he is in Russia, so the best they can do is say he is unhappy. :( Yes, Snowden fucked with the NSA and CIA, and is happy with his life, and his decision, and there is nothing the sadists at the NSA and CIA can do about it. I guess they'll just have to settle for torturing more Ay-rabs.

UWDude
01-10-2015, 11:53 PM
There is much repworthiness in this ^^^^^.

Just consider with some depth the fact that they tyrant has been "grievously exposed". America, in response, remained still at a time when the NSA chief should have been found mysteriously hanging from his neck under Blackfriar's bridge.

Consider this: could the events surrounding Ed Snowden have been engineered by larger and less visible hands? Yes yes... another conspiracy, but what is one more in a world choking on them? This is by no mean implausible and not even unlikely. In fact, I would give it about even odds as being the likely root basis. Why? What if some brilliant analyst came to Themme and said, "time to test the limits of the waters, and this is how we do it..." Theye wanted to gage public tolerance of their tyrannical acts. This is the smart thing PRECISELY because such information as Snowden's cannot be 100% guaranteed safe from unwanted leaks. Rather than neurotically obsess about how to contain things that cannot be quite completely contained for any of a number of reasons (like, there's just way too much of it), put some of it out there and see how the public reacts. If they go apey, you pull back. If not, you leak a little more - a little bigger - and see what happens. Rinse and repeat until the threshold is approached, then shut off the spigot completely. Is this not what has apparently happened? Where are the hundreds of thousands of revelations? I admit I am not paying strong attention to this as I have more important things in my life,

Like writing long winded bull shit on Ron Paul Forums, apparently.
Why be educated, when you can just spout off ignorant opinions and educated guesses?

Zippyjuan
01-11-2015, 12:03 AM
Like writing long winded bull shit on Ron Paul Forums, apparently.
Why be educated, when you can just spout off ignorant opinions and educated guesses?

Like your post above that one?


Of course, the CIA, and NSA, zippy's gods, if not employers, want you to think he is unhappy. Well, they'd rather you think he was being tortured now, like we all know Bradley Manning was, but unfortunately, he is in Russia, so the best they can do is say he is unhappy. Yes, Snowden fucked with the NSA and CIA, and is happy with his life, and his decision, and there is nothing the sadists at the NSA and CIA can do about it. I guess they'll just have to settle for torturing more Ay-rabs.

Lots of opinion and "educated guesses" in that.

UWDude
01-11-2015, 12:07 AM
Like your post above that one?

Did they teach you that at JTRIG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Threat_Research_Intelligence_Group)?

You need to come up with something more substantial than that. Earn your pay, weak minded fool!

Do you even know what "long winded" means? Have they outsourced trolling too? I must say, the New Zippy doesn't speak nearly as eloquently as the old Zippy.

Zippyjuan
01-11-2015, 12:21 AM
You obviously weren't "long winded" but did use lots of assumptions and opinions rather than educated discussions.

oyarde
01-11-2015, 01:11 AM
Living in Russia would be better than being in a US prison .

RJB
01-11-2015, 02:42 PM
Everyone I know who has either lived or visited Russia loved it. We have some pretty wacky stereotypes of the land and people there.

sparebulb
01-11-2015, 03:31 PM
Everyone I know who has either lived or visited Russia loved it. We have some pretty wacky stereotypes of the land and people there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ

And we are looking at the eventuality that 'Murikan men are too fat, slovenly, and unsuccessful for most hot, sexy, and educated Russian women.

osan
01-11-2015, 04:07 PM
Like writing long winded bull shit on Ron Paul Forums, apparently.
Why be educated, when you can just spout off ignorant opinions and educated guesses?

If you have a problem with what I wrote, why not try an adult response instead of this? Why not simply filter out my posts so you do not have to suffer through them? I promise I will not be offended. But this? Really.

If you want to make enemies, you're barking up the wrong tree here. I don't take that bait. So why, then, bother?

osan
01-11-2015, 04:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ

And we are looking at the eventuality that 'Murikan men are too fat, slovenly, and unsuccessful for most hot, sexy, and educated Russian women.

That ad was one of the best ever. However, I did at the time wonder whether it was a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. At any rate, it was a bit ingracious, but I cite it often even to this day. I just can't help myself.

Krugminator2
01-11-2015, 04:15 PM
Everyone I know who has either lived or visited Russia loved it. We have some pretty wacky stereotypes of the land and people there.


Yeah. The stereotypes are obviously silly. I could imagine it is pretty great assuming you want to be poor, be put in prison for speaking against the government, want to be ruled by a dictator, and enjoy having a currency that lost 50% of its value in the last few years. I would love to have lived in Russia and had 401k in Russian stocks. Their stock index is only down 75% since 2008. They clearly have a great deal of respect for property rights.

The negative image from Sochi Olympics is just Western propaganda. That undrinkable brown water wasn't really contaminated. It had minerals and nutrients in it.

pcosmar
01-11-2015, 04:27 PM
Who on this site defends McCarthy?

A few.

There are some even that think communism is real.

pcosmar
01-11-2015, 04:35 PM
McCarthy was 100% correct in every accusation he made.

I have to disagree. He was Ahab,, on a crusade against the biggest Red Herring ever.

Communism has never and will never exist beyond philosophical fantasy. (Paper tiger was an accurate descriptor)

THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A Communist country. Ever.
There never will be.
There was never a communist "Leader". (communism has no leaders)
Communism,, as defined by the lazy madman that invented it,, is so contrary to Human Nature that it would be impossible to institute.


and while McCarthy was destroying lives and wasting resources and expanding the MIC,, Socialism was being instituted here.

surf
01-11-2015, 04:42 PM
all I know is that it's well past time for the rest of the world to at least grant Mr. Snowden the ability to travel freely. if Mr. Snowden chooses to live in Russia, big f#cking deal.

RJB
01-11-2015, 05:21 PM
Yeah thank God we have honest news outlets like FOX and MSNBC to tell us how free and awesome we are here in Murica compared to everyone else.

Listen, I didn't say Russia was perfect nor even better than here in the USA. However, it's not the Wendy's commercial either. And BTW you should see the wacky stereotypes that those overseas have about us.


Yeah. The stereotypes are obviously silly. I could imagine it is pretty great assuming you want to be poor, be put in prison for speaking against the government, want to be ruled by a dictator, and enjoy having a currency that lost 50% of its value in the last few years. I would love to have lived in Russia and had 401k in Russian stocks. Their stock index is only down 75% since 2008. They clearly have a great deal of respect for property rights.

The negative image from Sochi Olympics is just Western propaganda. That undrinkable brown water wasn't really contaminated. It had minerals and nutrients in it.

DFF
01-11-2015, 07:51 PM
Ya, I'm sure living in an upscale neighborhood in Moscow, being a virtual celebrity and having access to some of the hottest women on the planet must be hell.

specsaregood
01-11-2015, 09:50 PM
Ya, I'm sure living in an upscale neighborhood in Moscow, being a virtual celebrity and having access to some of the hottest women on the planet must be hell.

FWIW: I recall reading that his girlfriend from the states that he lived with BEFORE the disclosure ended up moving to Russia to be with him.

pcosmar
01-11-2015, 11:15 PM
FWIW: I recall reading that his girlfriend from the states that he lived with BEFORE the disclosure ended up moving to Russia to be with him.

Well,, there ya go.

fr33
01-12-2015, 12:02 AM
McCarthy was 100% correct in every accusation he made. Literally, every name on his list turned out to be Kremlin assets. Every last stinking one of them.

This is simply not true. Your willingness to support congressional witch-hunts is troubling. McCarthy was even more offensive than the TSA agents that shit themselves over your empty holster. It is ridiculous that on a libertarian forum we have people still supporting such an authoritarian.

DFF
01-12-2015, 10:58 AM
There were a lot of communists and communist sympathizers in hollywood back in McCarthy's day. Now whether the good Senator was correct about specific accusations is another matter. But he was definitely on to something.

pcosmar
01-12-2015, 11:58 AM
There were a lot of communists and communist sympathizers in hollywood back in McCarthy's day. Now whether the good Senator was correct about specific accusations is another matter. But he was definitely on to something.

NO there were not. There were socialists that called themselves communists.

There were a lot here in Michigan.. The American Communist party was widespread. (none of them were actually communist)
I doubt that even one was actually communist. They owned property and were wealthy. (Two clues that they were in fact NOT Communist)

aside from some communes (small scale,, short lived) communism does not work.. It can not work.. It is a greater failure than socialism. (and that's saying something)

jllundqu
01-12-2015, 12:14 PM
Ya, I'm sure living in an upscale neighborhood in Moscow, being a virtual celebrity and having access to some of the hottest women on the planet must be hell.

Snowden and Russian Spy Anna Chapman should get together and have super-spy kids:

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/173/1/8/anna_chapman_by_artpalmira-d6a6t1n.jpg

DFF
01-12-2015, 01:06 PM
NO there were not. There were socialists that called themselves communists.

There were a lot here in Michigan.. The American Communist party was widespread. (none of them were actually communist)
I doubt that even one was actually communist. They owned property and were wealthy. (Two clues that they were in fact NOT Communist)

aside from some communes (small scale,, short lived) communism does not work.. It can not work.. It is a greater failure than socialism. (and that's saying something)

When I find myself doing something over and over again, I typically try and find a way to automate the process.

So since you've made this same post maybe, I dunno, fifty times already, perhaps you should consider making it your signature?

DFF
01-12-2015, 01:08 PM
http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/173/1/8/anna_chapman_by_artpalmira-d6a6t1n.jpg

From Russia with love...ouch!

jmdrake
01-12-2015, 01:18 PM
Who on this site defends McCarthy?

Frankrep used to all the time. I've seen others. Alex Jones kind of defends McCarthy. The argument goes like this. When the Soviet Union fell, the archives were opened and low and behold some of the people McCarthy called "communist" actually were. http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

pcosmar
01-12-2015, 02:33 PM
Frankrep used to all the time. I've seen others. Alex Jones kind of defends McCarthy. The argument goes like this. When the Soviet Union fell, the archives were opened and low and behold some of the people McCarthy called "communist" actually were. http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

They may have been soviet agents.. However.. The USSR was an Oligarchy.. a socialist Dictatorship.
(as opposed to democratic socialism like most of Europe and the US)
Cuba is a Dictatorship, N Korea is a Dictatorship.. It is brutal and authoritarian but is not and never has been communist.

Too many people repeat propaganda and catch phrases without ever thinking about them.

Communism is an overused word,, used by people who have no idea what it means.

It is rather a nice fantasy,, but one that will never exist.. Not among humans..

dannno
01-12-2015, 03:04 PM
Has Snowden changed his mind? http://www.techtimes.com/articles/13153/20140815/snowden-ill-do-jail-time-if-u-s-lets-me-come-back-home.htm

No, as the article states, his Visa is running out. Apparently questioning Putin on Russian citizen surveillance didn't help his case.

osan
01-12-2015, 03:17 PM
I have to disagree. He was Ahab,, on a crusade against the biggest Red Herring ever.

Communism has never and will never exist beyond philosophical fantasy. (Paper tiger was an accurate descriptor)

THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A Communist country. Ever.
There never will be.
There was never a communist "Leader". (communism has no leaders)
Communism,, as defined by the lazy madman that invented it,, is so contrary to Human Nature that it would be impossible to institute.


and while McCarthy was destroying lives and wasting resources and expanding the MIC,, Socialism was being instituted here.

Methinks we are talk past each other and it is probably my fault. By "accusations", I meant in the sense that everyone he accused of being Kremlin property, in fact, was. The record of the Venona decrypts confirms most, if not all of it.

I will not argue against your position regarding how he went about things - on that issue I see both sides and can empathize with each. But I would reiterate that second-guessing McCarthy while simultaneously not having been of adult age in those days and having the brand of benefit that hindsight affords, is not a particularly good practice in general, though there are exceptions, among which I might include Mao's "cultural revolution".

osan
01-12-2015, 03:32 PM
Listen, I didn't say Russia was perfect nor even better than here in the USA. However, it's not the Wendy's commercial either. And BTW you should see the wacky stereotypes that those overseas have about us.

At the time that ad was produced, the SU was PRECISELY like the depiction. I've been in those countries - Hungary, Romania, Ukraine, Czechoslovakia. Hungary was by a vast margin the best of them. Romania was a fookin' wasteland... still is for the most part in many ways (I believe it is rated as the poorest nation in Europe) and the Ukraine made Romania look like a prosperous place. Everywhere you went the air was pure stench from the industrial pollution. Water was tinged brown and, to my palate, undrinkable... probably with good cause. People wore the same 4-5 different styles of clothing. One of the things I remembered from when I was a child were the shoes. They were all the same - this was largely true even in Hungary, whose markets were far and away better developed than those in the SU.

Last time I was visiting grandma in a Hungary that was still in the bloc, ca. '88 or '89, they were having about 3-4 suicides per month of Soviet air force pilots. They came to Hungary on 2-year billets and basically when they arrived, they needed about a month to crank their jaws off the floor because the wealth of that meager nation was so vast in comparison with any place in the SU that were simply in utter shock. Several weeks before they were due to return to the mammy-land, the pattern was to kill their spouses, then their children, and then themselves. THAT is how dreadful a prospect it was to return to the bread lines. And I'd seen it all with my own eyes. If you had to live in that place at that time, you might also consider eating a bullet.

It's not like that now, of course, but the central government is still a mafia-KGB command bloc and many people suffer, though nothing like in the old days, that is for sure. Whether it is worse than the USA, I would bet that it depends on the specific aspect of life to which one is referring. I'd bet it is indeed better in some ways, but that is only because they have not caught up to the USA yet in terms of tuning the police state apparatus. They may have not interest in doing so... only time will tell, I suppose.

specsaregood
01-12-2015, 03:46 PM
No, as the article states, his Visa is running out. Apparently questioning Putin on Russian citizen surveillance didn't help his case.

No, that article was already a week late as his visa was extended for 3 more years a week before that.
http://guardianlv.com/2014/08/edward-snowden-gets-three-years/

RJB
01-12-2015, 04:05 PM
At the time that ad was produced, the SU was PRECISELY like the depiction. I've been in those countries - Hungary, Romania, Ukraine, Czechoslovakia.

I appreciate the first hand account.

AngryCanadian
01-12-2015, 04:35 PM
I have to disagree. He was Ahab,, on a crusade against the biggest Red Herring ever.

Communism has never and will never exist beyond philosophical fantasy. (Paper tiger was an accurate descriptor)

THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A Communist country. Ever.
There never will be.
There was never a communist "Leader". (communism has no leaders)
Communism,, as defined by the lazy madman that invented it,, is so contrary to Human Nature that it would be impossible to institute.


and while McCarthy was destroying lives and wasting resources and expanding the MIC,, Socialism was being instituted here.


THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A Communist country. Ever.
Neither will a capitalist country.

osan
01-12-2015, 04:39 PM
Neither will a capitalist country.

Never will what?

jmdrake
01-12-2015, 04:56 PM
They may have been soviet agents.. However.. The USSR was an Oligarchy.. a socialist Dictatorship.
(as opposed to democratic socialism like most of Europe and the US)
Cuba is a Dictatorship, N Korea is a Dictatorship.. It is brutal and authoritarian but is not and never has been communist.

Too many people repeat propaganda and catch phrases without ever thinking about them.

Communism is an overused word,, used by people who have no idea what it means.

It is rather a nice fantasy,, but one that will never exist.. Not among humans..

Yeah....I get all of that. But none of that really matters because Russia isn't even communist in name let alone reality. Yes Putin is a former KGB agent. But he's not going around nationalizing all means of production, creating collective farms or anything like that. Really we are at the end of Animal Farm as George Orwell predicted. The animals are being more like "humans" and the "humans" are being more like "animals" and the rest of us cattle look back and forth between the two and can barely tell the difference.

TheCount
01-12-2015, 05:34 PM
No, as the article states, his Visa is running out. Apparently questioning Putin on Russian citizen surveillance didn't help his case.

I would have a lot more respect for him if he'd accept the Swiss citizenship offer and leave Russia.

surf
01-12-2015, 07:29 PM
I would have a lot more respect for him if he'd accept the Swiss citizenship offer and leave Russia.
i'd have a lot more respect for Switzerland if they offered to let him hang out there.

as far as Snowden goes - he's a hero. he doesn't need your respect.

jmdrake
01-12-2015, 08:08 PM
Frankrep used to all the time. I've seen others. Alex Jones kind of defends McCarthy. The argument goes like this. When the Soviet Union fell, the archives were opened and low and behold some of the people McCarthy called "communist" actually were. http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

And ^this pulled a neg rep from our resident national socialist racist troll DFF for no explicable reason other than his own douchiness.

TheCount
01-12-2015, 08:22 PM
i'd have a lot more respect for Switzerland if they offered to let him hang out there.

They did.




as far as Snowden goes - he's a hero. he doesn't need your respect.

I must have missed the vote for official declaration of objective heroism. When did that happen?

Ender
01-12-2015, 08:34 PM
I would have a lot more respect for him if he'd accept the Swiss citizenship offer and leave Russia.

And how would he get there?

Any flights stopping in the UK would have been dangerous for Snowdon.

Ender
01-12-2015, 08:36 PM
And ^this pulled a neg rep from our resident national socialist racist troll DFF for no explicable reason other than his own douchiness.

Just +repped ya! ;)

pcosmar
01-12-2015, 08:39 PM
Neither will a capitalist country.

Every country is a capitalist country,, and none is..

Capitalism is the human state,, From reacquiring the simplest necessities,, to improving creature comforts. It is human nature.

Countries are run by people.. the State is neutral. People are Capitalists.

PaleoPaul
01-12-2015, 10:53 PM
No, as the article states, his Visa is running out. Apparently questioning Putin on Russian citizen surveillance didn't help his case.
He should have gone to Iceland from the start...they let in pretty much anybody...

heavenlyboy34
01-12-2015, 11:22 PM
Every country is a capitalist country,, and none is..

Capitalism is the human state,, From reacquiring the simplest necessities,, to improving creature comforts. It is human nature.

Countries are run by people.. the State is neutral. People are Capitalists.
No. States are spawn of Satan.

Mani
01-13-2015, 03:20 AM
Ya, I'm sure living in an upscale neighborhood in Moscow, being a virtual celebrity and having access to some of the hottest women on the planet must be hell.


If Russian women look anything like the trio of Ukranian women I met traveling through China, OMG, wow just wow. :eek:


They were super friendly, I was somewhat ignoring them while talking to a buddy nearby because I didn't want to be one of those gross gawker type guys staring at what I thought at least 1 may have been a model of some kind. As I'm walking away to say goodbye to my buddy, one of them says, "Excuse me. Hi! " Woah!? :eek: I think I was coming off a little rude standing next to someone and not saying hi. Ended up having a pretty cool conversation for an hour, they were just regular gals, mostly they kept trying to teach me to say, "Fuck you Putin" in Russian. Only negative is they were smoking like chimney stacks. Yuck.

If I was single I would have probably booked tickets to Ukraine the following weekend and done a trip back to Asia via Moscow. :cool:


Don't know why the hell Snowden called his GF to join him. Bro you are set for life in that town, treat that GF like the CIA and just disappear bro! I guess that love is real. Damn.


USA media is fairly idiotic and makes the entire planet look like a shit hole, and the common man is an ignorant fool who agrees. All Asian countries are 3rd world shit holes, as well as all Latin American countries. The Middle East is a camel riding shit hole. Africa is an aids infected Ebola infested people starving in the desert shit hole. Europe is too old and it's an old broken down quaint shit hole. Eastern Europe is a former broken communist shit hole. Everything is a shit hole except 'Murika! (and maybe our redheaded little step brother Canada). And if you say anything else is great or cool, or more advanced then 'Murika it offends the common man, because there can be only one! Only one Great country! USA! USA! USA!

UWDude
01-13-2015, 03:48 AM
USA! USA! USA!


USA! USA! USA! USA!


Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

UWDude
01-13-2015, 03:56 AM
Last time I was visiting grandma in a Hungary that was still in the bloc, ca. '88 or '89, they were having about 3-4 suicides per month of Soviet air force pilots. They came to Hungary on 2-year billets and basically when they arrived, they needed about a month to crank their jaws off the floor because the wealth of that meager nation was so vast in comparison with any place in the SU that were simply in utter shock. Several weeks before they were due to return to the mammy-land, the pattern was to kill their spouses, then their children, and then themselves. THAT is how dreadful a prospect it was to return to the bread lines.


Prove it. I don't believe you.

Because the pilots, like all officers in the Soviet Army, as well as the politicians and party elite, were more equal than others. This is the way it is in any government. They didn't have to worry about the bread lines. They were always first in line.

What's more, to say 3 or 4, acting fighter pilots, were killing themselves a month, is exaggerated beyond belief. The USSR would have gone into panic mode. You didn't even ever get that kind of suicide rate ever amongst *enlisted*, who were in the thick of the nightmare of world wars, far more severe than bread lines, but that's enlisted, and you want to tell me officers were offing themselves that fast, and their whole family? No... ...way.

1988 and 1989, heart of the age of major western propaganda in the entire area.

And I know you didn't see no suicide pilot commit suicide, though you did write it so a less observed reader would think you had. So all you know about these soviet pilot suicides is what you read in the news.

How much attention did you pay to those stories? Did you pay as much attention as you have to Edward Snowden's releases? (which from you was self admittedly not much) You talk like you know, but how did you learn all this? How did you learn 3-4 soviet pilots a month were killing themselves? Were you in the soviet air force? Did the soviets announce every one? That's strange for a government that keeps secrets well.

osan
01-13-2015, 07:06 AM
Every country is a capitalist country,, and none is..

Capitalism is the human state,, From reacquiring the simplest necessities,, to improving creature comforts. It is human nature.

Countries are run by people.. the State is neutral. People are Capitalists.

No. States are spawn of Satan.

Both a bit off, IMO.

States do not exist separately from human thought, and thought is the only reality they ever display. Wave wand, people disappear... and where, point to it, is the "state"?

As for "state" being neutral, I suppose in a somewhat strained metaphysical sense that is indeed so, but in terms closer to actual life, I would say it is not because people are rarely neutral in the sense I take you to mean.

osan
01-13-2015, 07:13 AM
Prove it. I don't believe you.

Well goody for you, sir. It is evident your purpose is to pick a fight and I am happy to say you will not get one here because I'm not here for that.

I don't care the least whether you believe me because you have made manifest a character unworthy of my most minimal esteem. I know what I was told in the place where it was happening as it was happening. I was there for three weeks and there were two suicides during that time. It never made the papers for the obvious reasons, but the people who told me of this were well trusted. You take from that whatever you want.



And I know you didn't see no suicide pilot commit suicide, though you did write it so a less observed reader would think you had. So all you know about these soviet pilot suicides is what you read in the news.

Then I might gently recommend you take a 6th-grade remedial reading comprehension class because I nowhere stated, nor did I in any way imply that I saw anyone commit the acts in question.

May I introduce you to my Bit Bucket?

Have a nice day.

osan
01-13-2015, 07:19 AM
If Russian women look anything like the trio of Ukranian women I met traveling through China, OMG, wow just wow. :eek:

My daughter's mother was Ukranian. I could show you photos, but it would only make you weep, knowing you missed the incarnation of perfection on earth. Sadly, she was also crazy as it gets, which is why she was dead at 45.



They were super friendly, I was somewhat ignoring them while talking to a buddy nearby because I didn't want to be one of those gross gawker type guys staring at what I thought at least 1 may have been a model of some kind. As I'm walking away to say goodbye to my buddy, one of them says, "Excuse me. Hi! " Woah!? :eek: I think I was coming off a little rude standing next to someone and not saying hi. Ended up having a pretty cool conversation for an hour, they were just regular gals, mostly they kept trying to teach me to say, "Fuck you Putin" in Russian. Only negative is they were smoking like chimney stacks. Yuck.

Jesus, what a maroon... here's a $million hint for next time: give them something else to smoke. :)

pcosmar
01-13-2015, 07:38 AM
No. States are spawn of Satan.

True,, but I was speaking in regard to organization.

The "state" is nebulous. It has no mind,, no thought and no ideology.. it is subject to those that run it.

As the state is always expanding,and growing,, it is naturally capitalistic.

Russia, China,, are capitalistic,, not communist.

heavenlyboy34
01-13-2015, 08:35 AM
Both a bit off, IMO.

States do not exist separately from human thought, and thought is the only reality they ever display. Wave wand, people disappear... and where, point to it, is the "state"?

As for "state" being neutral, I suppose in a somewhat strained metaphysical sense that is indeed so, but in terms closer to actual life, I would say it is not because people are rarely neutral in the sense I take you to mean.
"State" is indeed an abstract and rather arbitrary concept. Etienne de la Boetie said, “Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.”
I think Murray's explanation of the State is about as good as it gets:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/our-greatest-earthly-enemy/


What the State Is Man is born naked into the world, and needing to use his mind to learn how to take the resources given him by nature, and to transform them (for example, by investment in “capital”) into shapes and forms and places where the resources can be used for the satisfaction of his wants and the advancement of his standard of living. The only way by which man can do this is by the use of his mind and energy to transform resources (“production”) and to exchange these products for products created by others. Man has found that, through the process of voluntary, mutual exchange, the productivity and hence the living standards of all participants in exchange may increase enormously. The only “natural” course for man to survive and to attain wealth, therefore, is by using his mind and energy to engage in the production-and-exchange process. He does this, first, by finding natural resources, and then by transforming them (by “mixing his labor” with them, as Locke puts it), to make them his individual property, and then by exchanging this property for the similarly obtained property of others. The social path dictated by the requirements of man’s nature, therefore, is the path of “property rights” and the “free market” of gift or exchange of such rights. Through this path, men have learned how to avoid the “jungle” methods of fighting over scarce resources so that A can only acquire them at the expense of B and, instead, to multiply those resources enormously in peaceful and harmonious production and exchange.
The great German sociologist Franz Oppenheimer pointed out that there are two mutually exclusive ways of acquiring wealth; one, the above way of production and exchange, he called the “economic means.” The other way is simpler in that it does not require productivity; it is the way of seizure of another’s goods or services by the use of force and violence. This is the method of one-sided confiscation, of theft of the property of others. This is the method which Oppenheimer termed “the political means” to wealth. It should be clear that the peaceful use of reason and energy in production is the “natural” path for man: the means for his survival and prosperity on this earth. It should be equally clear that the coercive, exploitative means is contrary to natural law; it is parasitic, for instead of adding to production, it subtracts from it. The “political means” siphons production off to a parasitic and destructive individual or group; and this siphoning not only subtracts from the number producing, but also lowers the producer’s incentive to produce beyond his own subsistence. In the long run, the robber destroys his own subsistence by dwindling or eliminating the source of his own supply. But not only that; even in the short run, the predator is acting contrary to his own true nature as a man.
We are now in a position to answer more fully the question: what is the State? The State, in the words of Oppenheimer, is the “organization of the political means”; it is the systematization of the predatory process over a given territory.[4] For crime, at best, is sporadic and uncertain; the parasitism is ephemeral, and the coercive, parasitic lifeline may be cut off at any time by the resistance of the victims. The State provides a legal, orderly, systematic channel for the predation of private property; it renders certain, secure, and relatively “peaceful” the lifeline of the parasitic caste in society.[5] Since production must always precede predation, the free market is anterior to the State. The State has never been created by a “social contract”; it has always been born in conquest and exploitation. The classic paradigm was a conquering tribe pausing in its time-honored method of looting and murdering a conquered tribe, to realize that the time-span of plunder would be longer and more secure, and the situation more pleasant, if the conquered tribe were allowed to live and produce, with the conquerors settling among them as rulers exacting a steady annual tribute.[6] One method of the birth of a State may be illustrated as follows: in the hills of southern “Ruritania,” a bandit group manages to obtain physical control over the territory, and finally the bandit chieftain proclaims himself “King of the sovereign and independent government of South Ruritania”; and, if he and his men have the force to maintain this rule for a while, lo and behold! a new State has joined the “family of nations,” and the former bandit leaders have been transformed into the lawful nobility of the realm.

PaulConventionWV
01-13-2015, 08:54 AM
At the time that ad was produced, the SU was PRECISELY like the depiction. I've been in those countries - Hungary, Romania, Ukraine, Czechoslovakia. Hungary was by a vast margin the best of them. Romania was a fookin' wasteland... still is for the most part in many ways (I believe it is rated as the poorest nation in Europe) and the Ukraine made Romania look like a prosperous place. Everywhere you went the air was pure stench from the industrial pollution. Water was tinged brown and, to my palate, undrinkable... probably with good cause. People wore the same 4-5 different styles of clothing. One of the things I remembered from when I was a child were the shoes. They were all the same - this was largely true even in Hungary, whose markets were far and away better developed than those in the SU.

Last time I was visiting grandma in a Hungary that was still in the bloc, ca. '88 or '89, they were having about 3-4 suicides per month of Soviet air force pilots. They came to Hungary on 2-year billets and basically when they arrived, they needed about a month to crank their jaws off the floor because the wealth of that meager nation was so vast in comparison with any place in the SU that were simply in utter shock. Several weeks before they were due to return to the mammy-land, the pattern was to kill their spouses, then their children, and then themselves. THAT is how dreadful a prospect it was to return to the bread lines. And I'd seen it all with my own eyes. If you had to live in that place at that time, you might also consider eating a bullet.

It's not like that now, of course, but the central government is still a mafia-KGB command bloc and many people suffer, though nothing like in the old days, that is for sure. Whether it is worse than the USA, I would bet that it depends on the specific aspect of life to which one is referring. I'd bet it is indeed better in some ways, but that is only because they have not caught up to the USA yet in terms of tuning the police state apparatus. They may have not interest in doing so... only time will tell, I suppose.

That's amazing. I certainly wouldn't think of Hungary as a good place. I don't know if that's really what you meant to say, but that's kind of how I read it. In any case, I think the take-away message here is that government destroys everything it touches. The SU and other Eastern European Countries are just prime examples of that.

jmdrake
01-13-2015, 09:53 AM
He should have gone to Iceland from the start...they let in pretty much anybody...

But do they also let in the CIA rendition goon squads?

helmuth_hubener
01-13-2015, 10:27 AM
I think Murray's explanation of the State is about as good as it gets:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZg90aWjCaI

helmuth_hubener
01-13-2015, 10:31 AM
Romania was a wasteland... still is for the most part in many ways (I believe it is rated as the poorest nation in Europe)

Nope. The poorest nation in the EU is Bulgaria. The poorest in Europe overall is Moldova.

Demigod
01-13-2015, 10:55 AM
No. States are spawn of Satan.


If only ,Lucifer was a hero who would not kneel before no one,a true libertarian.


SU was not the poorest communist country by a long shot.The poorest European communist country was Albania and they were in no way even close to any of the others.From the Warsaw pact Romania and Bulgaria were the poorest but this was mostly because the SU was taking most that they produced.Yugoslavia generally had the highest standard but this was mostly because the west was giving out loans left and right and the leadership unlike the SU made the borders open early on so more than a million people left.That emigration sent back a lot of money especially foreign currency which was always in high demand because the central bank was printing like crazy.Also it stabilized the country workforce,if they had not opened the borders there would have been a revolution even before 1980.

My ladder would be Yugoslavia>Hungary/Czesh/SU>>Poland/Bulgaria/Romania>>>>>>>>>>>Albania.It has to be taken into account that the difference between regions in communist countries was staggering in some cases.Entire regions would be saddled with high-intensity manual labor and heavy pollution forever ,while some hand picked regions had all the money flow into them.

jmdrake
01-13-2015, 11:02 AM
If only ,Lucifer was a hero who would not kneel before no one,a true libertarian.

Using that metric, Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Kim Jung Il are/were true libertarians.

surf
01-13-2015, 12:38 PM
They did.


I must have missed the vote for official declaration of objective heroism. When did that happen?
is this what you're referring to?


Switzerland would grant Edward Snowden asylum if he revealed the extent of espionage activities by the US government, recommendations by the Swiss Attorney General reportedly conclude.

According to Swiss newspaper Sonntags Zeitung, an official has said that Mr Snowden should be guaranteed safe entry and residency in the country, in return for his knowledge on America’s intelligence activities.

in case you weren't able to interpret my original comment on heroic Edward and the importance of your acknowledgment of this, let me keep it simple for you.... I don't really give much credence to opinions of folks with disdain for freedom.

osan
01-13-2015, 07:02 PM
That's amazing. I certainly wouldn't think of Hungary as a good place. I don't know if that's really what you meant to say, but that's kind of how I read it. In any case, I think the take-away message here is that government destroys everything it touches. The SU and other Eastern European Countries are just prime examples of that.

Hungary was dangerous in the ways the SU was in terms of how one publicly comported his politics, but to a FAR lesser degree. Their markets were mostly free (laissez faire). There was the central planning thing, especially on major capital projects such as the building of a Soviet-style industrial city in NE Hungary, close to Miskolc... damn if I cannot recall the name... but it was something truly pathetic like "Stalin City" or "Lenin City", since renamed, IIRC. Went through it once and my GOD what a dreary place... reminded me of the Ukraine, though not within a parsec of being as bad... but the general atmosphere of leaden, hopeless, life-turned-to-mere-existence-for-the-benefit-of-the-state was definitely there, what with all the poured, grey concrete highrise bloc houses. Makes me depressed just recalling it.

As Soviet bloc nations went, it was by far the best in terms of economics. You could get almost anything, whereas in the SU proper, the most basic commodities of life were often unavailable. The Soviets left Hungary alone, methinks so long as they did not advertise their heresies to the world. I suspect in the wake of Czechoslovakia the little douchebag commies didn't want to find themselves having to quell a general insurrection over about half of Europe.

In terms of social freedom, it was also by far the best. People spoke mostly freely, even to criticize the central government and the Soviets, though some care had to be exercised. As I said, it was almost a laissez-faire tyranny, if that makes any sense. You immediately noticed the difference in places like Romania where people would not dare say the things the Hungarians said. not sure why they got away with it, short of my above meager speculation.

No, I would not want to have had to live there for more than the few months I spent every year as a child. Loved my grandma, but missed being home. 'MURKA! dammit!

But as bloc nations went, it really was not all that bad. Had I been forced to live in Ukraine, I'd probably have offed myself as well. I really don't know how to characterize it without it sounding like exaggerations. All I can say is I would never choose to live in such a place... living in nothing but liquid fear and endless want for the basics. No thanks. The Soviets truly were idiots, IMO.

Mani
01-13-2015, 09:58 PM
My daughter's mother was Ukranian. I could show you photos, but it would only make you weep, knowing you missed the incarnation of perfection on earth. Sadly, she was also crazy as it gets, which is why she was dead at 45.



I absolutely believe you from the small sampling I saw.



Jesus, what a maroon... here's a $million hint for next time: give them something else to smoke. :)



No way. I'm so glad I left when I did. There were 3 of them, 2 very attractive and 1 like I said I initially thought was some kind of model. The model looking one and the other attractive one ended up having guys to chat with and all my friends who were with me disappeared. The ladies all wanted grab something to eat, and I was making it a perfect match 3 on 3. I got the hell out of there!! Said, enjoy your dinner! No way. I don't like that kind of temptation. Mamma Mia. Here I go again....My My how can I resist you? ...started playing in my head and I ran.

HOLLYWOOD
01-13-2015, 10:46 PM
If Russian women look anything like the trio of Ukranian women I met traveling through China, OMG, wow just wow. :eek: http://kwout.com/cutout/c/qe/iu/kni_bor.jpg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Frusvesna.su%2Fsites%2Fd efault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Forign_wm%2Fpublic%2F2014-06-16_01-21-17.png%253Fitok%253DXmZNGGSJ&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Flotos72897.wordpress.com%2 F2014%2F06%2F16%2F%25D0%25BA%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%2 5D1%2582%25D0%25BA%25D0%25B0%25D1%258F-%25D1%2581%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B4%25D0%25BA %25D0%25B0-%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25D1%2581 %25D1%2582%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B9-%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25D1%2580 %25D0%25BE%25D1%2581%25D1%2581%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B8-%25D0%25B7%2F&h=389&w=596&tbnid=Y_mTiRZM2D0_AM%3A&zoom=1&docid=m7FR3m50UJH1iM&ei=uPK1VJ3AFYmdyAT1s4EQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CEIQMygbMBs&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=676&page=2&start=21&ndsp=31)

Crimea's new Top Prosecutor defected from the Uki Klan in Kiev, A.G. Natalia Poklonskaya


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeTqWI9QSik

There's Talent too! ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9FS1bxaGTg

UWDude
01-14-2015, 12:59 AM
I was there for three weeks and there were two suicides during that time. It never made the papers for the obvious reasons, but the people who told me of this were well trusted.

Wait, you said, "3 or 4 a month were committing suicide", now you say you heard about it from a "trusted source", (so this means you trusted them, but that doesn't mean they knew the truth). Now you have backed down to "two committed suicide in three weeks". Not only that, your trusted sources must have had access to the suicide notes, because you yourself admitted, "it never made the papers", yet earlier you claimed they committed suicide "because they could not stand the thought of going back to the bread lines".

PWND BITCH


Then I might gently recommend you take a 6th-grade remedial reading comprehension class because I nowhere stated, nor did I in any way imply that I saw anyone commit the acts in question.

Oh I know you didn't. I also know you didn't even HEAR about 3 - 4 pilots committing suicide a month. You made that shit up by extrapolating it from the rumor of two committing suicide the three weeks you were there.

Just because you were there, does not in any way make you an expert on Soviet Pilot suicide rates.

Not only did you present an anecdote, at best, (but more likely a baseless rumor) as fact, you exaggerated it to make it more salacious, and then claimed to have seen it all with your own eyes. Your writing style is that of a deceiver.


I don't care the least whether you believe me because you have made manifest a character unworthy of my most minimal esteem.

A liar, rumormonger, and exaggerator thinks me unworthy of his esteem. I care not.

DamianTV
01-16-2015, 01:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ

And we are looking at the eventuality that 'Murikan men are too fat, slovenly, and unsuccessful for most hot, sexy, and educated Russian women.

American Men are the product of a man destroying society.

puppetmaster
01-16-2015, 04:46 AM
I remember when they said they were going to make a big info release......Never happened

HOLLYWOOD
01-16-2015, 12:19 PM
But do they also let in the CIA rendition goon squads?If there's an US Embassy or Consulate in a foreign nation, then you'll always find FSO "Jackals" stationed within.

Lucille
08-29-2015, 12:14 PM
I told whistleblower Edward Snowden to escape to Russia or risk being kidnapped and killed, claims Wikileaks founder Assange
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3215122/I-told-whistleblower-Edward-Snowden-escape-Russia-risk-kidnapped-killed-claims-Wikileaks-founder-Assange.html

Assange claims he advised Snowden to choose Russia over Latin America
Snowden was apparently concerned over the PR implications of Moscow
Wikileaks founder has been hiding in Ecuadorian embassy since 2012
He now claims he can no longer use the balcony for fear of assassination


Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has revealed how he told Edward Snowden to flee to Russia - saying otherwise he risked being 'kidnapped or possibly killed'.

Assange claims he told former NSA contractor Snowden to choose the controversial destination after he leaked details of the U.S. government's wide-ranging surveillance programme to the media in 2013.

Snowden had apparently mooted Latin America as a possibility, but Assange feared it left him vulnerable to being kidnapped by the CIA.

The Wikileaks founder, who has been hiding in the Ecuadorian embassy since June 2012, told Giles Whittel in The Times Magazine: 'Snowden was well aware of the spin that would be put on it if he took asylum in Russia.

'He preferred Latin America, but my advice was that he should take asylum in Russia despite the negative PR consequences, because my assessment is that he had a significant risk of being kidnapped from Latin America on CIA orders.'

Questioned further, Assange added he feared Snowden could be 'kidnapped or possibly killed'.

Anti Federalist
08-29-2015, 12:19 PM
American Men are the product of a man destroying society.

Well, there's a gold nugget of wisdom.

+rep.