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Valli6
01-08-2015, 07:11 PM
Because graduating from the 14th grade will make all the difference!


Obama to propose two free years of community college for students
By ALLIE GRASGREEN 1/8/15
President Barack Obama on Friday will propose making two years of community college free for students.

In a White House video posted Thursday evening, Obama said he wanted to offer “a little preview” of his plans for the Jan. 20 State of the Union address.

“What I’d like to do is to see the first two years of community college free for everybody who’s willing to work for it,” Obama said. “It’s something we can accomplish, and it’s something that will train our workforce so that we can compete with anybody in the world.”

The proposal would make two years of community college free for students with a C+ average who attend school at least half-time and who are making “steady progress” toward their degree.

Obama will visit Pellissippi Community College in Tennessee on Friday. Beginning this year, any state high school graduate is eligible for two years of free community college tuition under the Tennessee Promise.

Federal funding would cover three-quarters of the average cost of community college, and Obama is asking states to pick up the rest of the tab — assuming Congress agrees to the plan in the first place.

“I hope we’ve got the chance to make sure that Congress gets behind these kinds of efforts to make sure that even as we rebound and grow in 2015, that it benefits everybody and not just some,” the president said in the video.

To be eligible, community colleges would have to offer academic programs that fully transfer credits to local public four-year colleges and universities or training programs with high graduation rates that lead to in-demand degrees and certificates. Community colleges must also adopt “promising and evidence-based institutional reforms” to improve student outcomes.

If all 50 states participate, the proposal could benefit 9 million students each year and save students an average of $3,800 in tuition, the White House said.
Nirvi Shah contributed to this report.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/barack-obama-free-community-college-114094.html?hp=l3_4

heavenlyboy34
01-08-2015, 07:34 PM
I've never done the math, but I think it's impossible to finish a 2 year degree/cert taking less than full loads (12 credits minimum, in my state). Correct me if I'm wrong here.

alucard13mm
01-08-2015, 08:05 PM
Community college is pretty cheap... It costs like what? 400-600USD a SEMESTER (most community colleges go by semester system). Might as well make all college free... lol

Republicans should say... WELL WHY NOT FREE 4 YEAR UNIVERSITY?!?!

Valli6
01-08-2015, 08:24 PM
Republicans should say... WELL WHY NOT FREE 4 YEAR UNIVERSITY?!?!

Yeah, he should insist on a free Harvard Education for all - like he had!
Surely progressive professors everywhere are willing to work for free, to ensure a quality education for everyone! Anything less is just racist!

TomKat
01-08-2015, 08:27 PM
Are community colleges funded by tax payers or are they private institutions?
If they are tax funded then this makes sense and I wouldn't have spent thousands to figure out that college wasn't for me because I would have been spending the money that I already paid for this service.
If they are private, then this is just another service that the taxpayers are expected to pay the bill for and "the taxes are too damn high!!!".

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY89mqJ1Jf_wtN2bDlKCdrdnx52SlqX Zlwy6tiHLRJ12E6dHlv

specsaregood
01-08-2015, 08:31 PM
Because graduating from the 14th grade will make all the difference!
sorta makes sense in a way:


State legislators were appalled in 2006 to discover that almost 30 percent of the 1,680 new NJSTARS community college scholarship recipients, who by definition were in the top 20 percent of their high school graduating class, had to take at least one remedial course.

http://m.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/top_three/watchdog-report-taxpayers-pay-million-a-year-for-remedial-courses/article_b443e028-609a-11df-a2ef-001cc4c002e0.html


I mean they've done such a bang up job of running the high schools that they almost have to add 2 more years just to make sure the top HS graduates can pass remedial tests, not even including the middle/bottom half of graduates.

69360
01-08-2015, 08:32 PM
He's already nearly doubled the national debt, who's paying for this new bit of socialism?

DamianTV
01-08-2015, 08:37 PM
He's already nearly doubled the national debt, who's paying for this new bit of socialism?

Want to see how expensive something can become? Just wait until it is FREE. So how is Obamacare working out for folks? Where did all the Full Time Jobs go? Hmmm....

specsaregood
01-08-2015, 08:39 PM
He's already nearly doubled the national debt, who's paying for this new bit of socialism?

You must be using old math. This is new math; nobody is paying for it, its "free"!

alucard13mm
01-08-2015, 08:42 PM
Okay Okay Mr Obama. As long as the money isn't going to people studying for art or music or some bullshit like that. Only have it for people who want to study under a S.T.E.M subject.

phill4paul
01-08-2015, 08:44 PM
By "free" I assume, or should say the image that comes to mind, is individuals volunteering their time because the free market has been so good to them that they can retire at 40 years old and give their free tie to those coming up. Apprentice. At one time the moniker meant something true and noble. Master/Teacher. Ditto.

brandon
01-08-2015, 08:44 PM
Community college is pretty cheap... It costs like what? 400-600USD a SEMESTER (most community colleges go by semester system). Might as well make all college free... lol


Yea... and even moreso poor people can usually already get FAFSA to pay for the 400 bucks if they can't muster it themselves.

muh_roads
01-08-2015, 08:46 PM
“...so that we can compete with anybody in the world.”

Is this an admission that 'merica is no longer foam finger #1?

If they actually cared about competing, they would repeal NAFTA. Instead they want to outsource office jobs now with TPP.

amy31416
01-08-2015, 08:48 PM
Great. A whole new crop of 2yr "business" degree students who can't do shit with it. One of the few decent things about the public schools here is that you can take trade courses at the community college that count toward graduation from HS and getting an advanced degree in something like nursing. It provides a good way to work through college while getting experience in your field of choice.

ghengis86
01-08-2015, 08:49 PM
Community college is pretty cheap... It costs like what? 400-600USD a SEMESTER (most community colleges go by semester system). Might as well make all college free... lol

Republicans should say... WELL WHY NOT FREE 4 YEAR UNIVERSITY?!?!

If I remember, it cost me $50-100 per credit hour for classes I took in during the summer. I used community college as a cheap alternative to take care of 'core' classes.

phill4paul
01-08-2015, 08:52 PM
“...so that we can compete with anybody in the world.”

Is this an admission that 'merica is no longer foam finger #1?

If they actually cared about competing, they would repeal NAFTA. Instead they want to outsource office jobs now with TTP.

We have game foamies....

http://www.designboom.com/history/numberonefoamhand/07.jpg

So why are there no gang foamies.....

http://bp2.blogger.com/_RH48RguIYVE/SH60Co3Yd1I/AAAAAAAADew/BdKpErDT1v8/s320/gangchartwtf.jpg

Someones dropping the ball.

amy31416
01-08-2015, 09:03 PM
Gangbangers now wear socks with sandals?

Odd.

phill4paul
01-08-2015, 09:14 PM
Gangbangers now wear socks with sandals?

Odd.

I didn't notice the sandals. Or the hand sign. That's just how I roll.

"I noticed your sidearm under your t-shirt. Because your T-shirt was tucked behind the handle of your sidearm. Why are you threatening me with your belly button?"

catfeathers
01-08-2015, 09:19 PM
Community college is pretty cheap... It costs like what? 400-600USD a SEMESTER

$400 - $600 MIGHT cover the books for one semester.

DamianTV
01-08-2015, 09:20 PM
Yeah, this is gonna solve the LACK OF JOBS problems. Why is it that we have had a 71% increase in people with college educations working at Minimum Wage jobs since 2007? It isnt the education that is holding people back, it is the LACK OF JOBS.

Christian Liberty
01-08-2015, 09:28 PM
Community college is pretty cheap... It costs like what? 400-600USD a SEMESTER (most community colleges go by semester system). Might as well make all college free... lol

Not that I support the program (I don't) but in NYS its more like 5K a year without aid.

Of course I've no doubt govt. is behind that situation.


Republicans should say... WELL WHY NOT FREE 4 YEAR UNIVERSITY?!?!

The problem is they'd be taken literally;)

TheCount
01-08-2015, 10:06 PM
I think community colleges are underrated and a much higher % of Americans should attend community college rather than a university.

Still don't agree with this program.

VIDEODROME
01-08-2015, 10:17 PM
I'm 38 but still underemployed. Can I get 2 years of free college for training?

TheCount
01-08-2015, 10:22 PM
I'm 38 but still underemployed. Can I get 2 years of free college for training?

According to its handbook, the Tennessee Promise program only applies to graduating class of 2015 and alter. I would imagine any federal program would be the same.

Cleaner44
01-08-2015, 11:03 PM
Another plank to The Great New Broke Society Deal.

heavenlyboy34
01-08-2015, 11:09 PM
Are community colleges funded by tax payers or are they private institutions?
If they are tax funded then this makes sense and I wouldn't have spent thousands to figure out that college wasn't for me because I would have been spending the money that I already paid for this service.
If they are private, then this is just another service that the taxpayers are expected to pay the bill for and "the taxes are too damn high!!!".

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY89mqJ1Jf_wtN2bDlKCdrdnx52SlqX Zlwy6tiHLRJ12E6dHlv
In my state they're for-profit .com's. Can't speak for the rest of the soyuz.

heavenlyboy34
01-08-2015, 11:15 PM
I think community colleges are underrated and a much higher % of Americans should attend community college rather than a university.

Still don't agree with this program.
Indeed. They have much smaller class sizes, far cheaper tuition (just over 100 FRNs/credit hour in my district-plus fees and such for certain classes like fine arts), and the instruction is just as good or better than a university. It's common for CC teachers to be active in the field they teach as well. i.e. my prepress/layout design prof is a press operator and graphic designer by day and my photography prof is a retired photojournalist and photo artist.

SilentBull
01-08-2015, 11:39 PM
It's a political move to demonize Republicans who dare go against free education for the poor.

CPUd
01-08-2015, 11:46 PM
Are community colleges funded by tax payers or are they private institutions?
If they are tax funded then this makes sense and I wouldn't have spent thousands to figure out that college wasn't for me because I would have been spending the money that I already paid for this service.
If they are private, then this is just another service that the taxpayers are expected to pay the bill for and "the taxes are too damn high!!!".

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY89mqJ1Jf_wtN2bDlKCdrdnx52SlqX Zlwy6tiHLRJ12E6dHlv

In TN, community colleges are public, and should be similar for other states. Community colleges are designated such because they have relationships with local business and industry, where they ideally would use the community college as a source for new hires and continuing education for existing employees. Because they are now all rolled into the TBR system, they are also expected to offer GE core classes that would transfer to any other TBR school. IMO this is where some of the problems with useless degrees start.

Community colleges offer 2 types of Associate degrees- Associate of Arts/Science and Associate of Applied Arts/Science. The A.S. is what they call a transfer degree, meaning you should be able to transfer to a 4-year program without needing to take any more core classes. Employers are aware of this, because people will get this degree and try to compete for jobs that call for Bachelor degrees. Some fields are OK with it, but many scientific fields, the A.S. won't cut it. Also if you transfer to a TBR or other school with a matriculation agreement, the A.S. is unnecessary (I found this out the hard way).

The A.A.S. is what they call "workforce-ready", or vocational. There are less core requirements, but a student could get to the more difficult, focused courses after the first semester. These programs are the ones supported by local business and industry, and offer the best chance of getting hired by them immediately after graduation. But they will be difficult to finish for a fresh HS graduate who doesn't really know what they want to do. Most of the people I met in these programs were non-traditional students going for a 2nd (or 1st real) career, and knew what they wanted to do. A couple guys I met had the B.F.A, but couldn't do anything with it. I would support making those programs free because:

- many are already working, but don't qualify for need-based grants, so they have to take out loans,
- they have a high probability of graduating and getting hired locally,
- it supports the original purpose of the community college.

oyarde
01-09-2015, 12:07 AM
Yeah, this is gonna solve the LACK OF JOBS problems. Why is it that we have had a 71% increase in people with college educations working at Minimum Wage jobs since 2007? It isnt the education that is holding people back, it is the LACK OF JOBS.

Actually , that may well be the commie angle , if they are students , they are not looking for jobs and do not count as unemployed .Maybe they will give them some entry level govt job .

tangent4ronpaul
01-09-2015, 12:51 AM
If I remember, it cost me $50-100 per credit hour for classes I took in during the summer. I used community college as a cheap alternative to take care of 'core' classes.

and you got a better education for the first 2 years.

at a uni you pay the higher tuition, but you get put in huge classes for any core classes. often in an auditorium. the instructor doesn't know your name. doesn't have office hours. doesn't grade your papers. grad students do and you get to ask questions once a week - to the grad student. they don't have enough lab seats. by comparison a CC has small clas sized, the instructor knows your name, grades your work, has office hours and there is a lab seat for every student - plus it's a lot cheaper!

-t

RPfan1992
01-09-2015, 01:20 AM
and you got a better education for the first 2 years.

at a uni you pay the higher tuition, but you get put in huge classes for any core classes. often in an auditorium. the instructor doesn't know your name. doesn't have office hours. doesn't grade your papers. grad students do and you get to ask questions once a week - to the grad student. they don't have enough lab seats. by comparison a CC has small clas sized, the instructor knows your name, grades your work, has office hours and there is a lab seat for every student - plus it's a lot cheaper!




-t



Where I live you pretty much get paid to go to the CC assuming you're low income, this is w/o scholarships. The financial aid is so generous.

juleswin
01-09-2015, 01:47 AM
Yeah, he should insist on a free Harvard Education for all - like he had!
Surely progressive professors everywhere are willing to work for free, to ensure a quality education for everyone! Anything less is just racist!

With room and board, food, beer etc etc? and there should be no age limit. I'll vote for that :). Also a guaranteed employment for a career job after graduation. Obama will be the best president ever if he gets it through.

luctor-et-emergo
01-09-2015, 01:50 AM
If everyone goes to college the quality of education will sink like a brick.

Universities should be institutions of science, not training centers for big business, which they are becoming more and more.

PRB
01-09-2015, 02:55 AM
Yeah, this is gonna solve the LACK OF JOBS problems. Why is it that we have had a 71% increase in people with college educations working at Minimum Wage jobs since 2007? It isnt the education that is holding people back, it is the LACK OF JOBS.

there is no shortage of jobs, some people just think they're too good for certain jobs.

randomname
01-09-2015, 03:15 AM
What's the difference with student loans that were never going to be paid back anyways

PRB
01-09-2015, 03:16 AM
What's the difference with student loans that were never going to be paid back anyways

the difference is that students currently can suffer debt as a result, now they might not need to.

DamianTV
01-09-2015, 03:22 AM
there is no shortage of jobs, some people just think they're too good for certain jobs.

Really? There is no shortage of jobs? Did you drink the Kool-Aid?

Rudeman
01-09-2015, 03:25 AM
Nothing is free and I'd imagine it'll be a pain for students to find open slots for the classes they'll need, meaning more students will need more than 2 years to finish a 2 year degree.

PRB
01-09-2015, 03:26 AM
Really? There is no shortage of jobs? Did you drink the Kool-Aid?

It's Flavor-aid, but no, there's no shortage of jobs if you just need to spend time and get paid. You may not like those jobs, but they're there.

Sure, a lot of jobs have been shipped overseas or killed with automation, but there's still plenty left. You may not be able to live off of them, but again, a job is just spending time and labor in exchange for money, there's still tons of it. If there's no jobs, why are there still people coming from Mexico?

PRB
01-09-2015, 03:27 AM
Nothing is free and I'd imagine it'll be a pain for students to find open slots for the classes they'll need, meaning more students will need more than 2 years to finish a 2 year degree.

don't worry, Obama will build more classrooms to preempt it. or else it'll just encourage people to avoid community college, it'll be like Social Security and DMV lines, why let grown ups have all the fun?

DamianTV
01-09-2015, 04:36 AM
It's Flavor-aid, but no, there's no shortage of jobs if you just need to spend time and get paid. You may not like those jobs, but they're there.

Sure, a lot of jobs have been shipped overseas or killed with automation, but there's still plenty left. You may not be able to live off of them, but again, a job is just spending time and labor in exchange for money, there's still tons of it. If there's no jobs, why are there still people coming from Mexico?

They arent coming for the jobs any more. They are coming because of all the Free Welfare.

heavenlyboy34
01-09-2015, 05:51 AM
It's Flavor-aid, but no, there's no shortage of jobs if you just need to spend time and get paid. You may not like those jobs, but they're there.

Sure, a lot of jobs have been shipped overseas or killed with automation, but there's still plenty left. You may not be able to live off of them, but again, a job is just spending time and labor in exchange for money, there's still tons of it. If there's no jobs, why are there still people coming from Mexico?
Getting paid under the table and making subsistence wages is not desirable for most people.

69360
01-09-2015, 05:59 AM
According to its handbook, the Tennessee Promise program only applies to graduating class of 2015 and alter. I would imagine any federal program would be the same.

That is a hate crime and discrimination against the middle aged and elderly.


Really? There is no shortage of jobs? Did you drink the Kool-Aid?

I can find anyone in this country who wants to work a job within 1 day. Will it be a cushy high pay, easy work job that is 1 mile from your home? Probably not, but the work is there if you want to do it and are willing to go where the work is.

69360
01-09-2015, 06:02 AM
Getting paid under the table and making subsistence wages is not desirable for most people.

It's only not desirable because they can get paid more on welfare. Take that away and people will be lined up for those jobs. Or natural selection will take over. Either way problem solved.

ghengis86
01-09-2015, 06:10 AM
and you got a better education for the first 2 years.

at a uni you pay the higher tuition, but you get put in huge classes for any core classes. often in an auditorium. the instructor doesn't know your name. doesn't have office hours. doesn't grade your papers. grad students do and you get to ask questions once a week - to the grad student. they don't have enough lab seats. by comparison a CC has small clas sized, the instructor knows your name, grades your work, has office hours and there is a lab seat for every student - plus it's a lot cheaper!

-t

I went to a small, private college so it had small class size but world class facilities and labs. The problem is that it cost 10x more than the local CC. So I took some required calculus, history, physics classes and transferred the credits. I wonder if colleges and unis could price their credit hours on a sliding scale? I mean, what do you need to teach math? A good professor and some chalk. Organic chemistry labs? That's going to be more since you actually need a lab with instrumentation.

Spikender
01-09-2015, 06:19 AM
Getting paid under the table and making subsistence wages is not desirable for most people.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with the first point.

It would be awesome to know that my paycheck is all mine and isn't being siphoned off to feed a mixture of both parasites and tax ticks and fund death depravity around the country and the world.

Then again, you did say most people, and I guess I'm not exactly the voice of the masses.

ghengis86
01-09-2015, 06:57 AM
In my business and industry in general, we have a need for higher level, skilled STEM employees or low-skill, manual labor. There's not much in the 'middle class' range. Sure, there are some mid-level management making $45-65k, but its tyliclly $35k and under for the majority and $65k and up for high skill.

Technology and automation has had an impact in my business for sure, even down to clerical duties. Our inventory, manufacturing, billing and information management systems/software have progressed to the point where I need only one skilled manager to setup, implement and monitor, while 20 workers provide the inputs: scan this bar code, but it in a box, print shipping label; take these 10 sub-widgets and assemble into 1 large widget. Etc etc

How much can I afford to pay a forklift driver? I can get an entry level guy for $10/hr + bennies. That's about $21k/yr. After 10 years, he could get into the $15-17/hr range if he's good, helps train or manage the noobs, etc.

I need low skill employees and high sill employees. That middle level skill employee is hard to justify. I'll pay more to get someone who can do that job plus more; or get 2-3 guys and brute force labor it.

frodus24
01-09-2015, 06:58 AM
Students who come from a poor background already attend community college for free. They complete the FAFSA and can receive up to $5,730 in taxpayer assisted federal pell grant funds. Their tuition is paid along with books and then they receive the leftovers in a refund. They also may receive state aid which adds to their refund. In addition, students may also borrow student loan funds to pay for off campus housing, cell phones, satellite tv packages, food, etc. But the kicker is this. Community colleges have the highest rate of defaulted student loans. Many average around 22% of those that graduate/withdraw. Obama needs to go have a chat with the Department of Education. He is clueless in my opinion.

Working Poor
01-09-2015, 07:17 AM
I guess Obama is trying to suck out the black budget.

ifthenwouldi
01-09-2015, 07:29 AM
I need low skill employees and high sill employees. That middle level skill employee is hard to justify.

I think this is true in most industries right now, which is why we middle-level applicants have to fight off 100 other applicants every time we apply for jobs.

ifthenwouldi
01-09-2015, 07:30 AM
---

DamianTV
01-09-2015, 08:29 AM
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with the first point.

It would be awesome to know that my paycheck is all mine and isn't being siphoned off to feed a mixture of both parasites and tax ticks and fund death depravity around the country and the world.

Then again, you did say most people, and I guess I'm not exactly the voice of the masses.

Ditto. I do believe it would be nice to know what I have earned is mine to keep, and for that to be enough to live on. I think the main issue is another one of slightly distorted perspectives. Its just saying that the association with "under the table" typically means "less than minimum wage" or an "unlivable wage". However I also think the solution isnt a higher minimum wage or more regulations, but less. The wage is what ever is negotiated between two parties and there is no such thing as a wage that is too low.

Acala
01-09-2015, 09:01 AM
AND a free pony for every child.

juleswin
01-09-2015, 09:06 AM
If everyone goes to college the quality of education will sink like a brick.

Universities should be institutions of science, not training centers for big business, which they are becoming more and more.


I don't quite understand this line of thinking. Why exactly would the quality of education go down? As long as the student going to college are qualified and there is enough money to pay for teachers (foreign and domestic), I don't see how this will negatively affects the quality of education. But the increased supply will raise the standards demanded by employees since they now have the luxury of picking from a bigger pool of applicants.

ghengis86
01-09-2015, 09:30 AM
I think this is true in most industries right now, which is why we middle-level applicants have to fight off 100 other applicants every time we apply for jobs.

Right. If we put out an add for a lab tech, we get everything from fresh out of college to over qualified with a master's degree. We use a staffing service now for just about every job type.

morfeeis
01-09-2015, 10:08 AM
As someone who went to community college in CA i am a bit lost, not only did i get a fee wavier but i was also awarded grants that allowed me to buy my books and have a bit of cash left over. In other words the shit was already free, this is a a play on words or the rest of the country is very different.....

Ronin Truth
01-09-2015, 10:14 AM
The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com.../DDDoA.sml.pdf

VoluntaryAmerican
01-09-2015, 10:21 AM
As some of you said: just more Socialism.

What is this paving the way for? Four years of "free" government paid college... That is all. It's just an incremental approach to near total socialism in the education sphere.... and the cronies will be rewarded.

CaptUSA
01-09-2015, 10:22 AM
If you can provide value to someone, there is never a shortage of a job for you. Period. Never.

The idea that 2 years of community college is somehow going to teach people how to provide value to others is not supported by history. All this does is further devalue the associates degree and high school diploma. It will do nothing to improve the lives of anyone.

specsaregood
01-09-2015, 10:35 AM
The idea that 2 years of community college is somehow going to teach people how to provide value to others is not supported by history.

I disagree completely. There are quite a large number of useful 2 yr CC degrees that teach skills that would provide value to others. Much more so than 2 years of traditional university time.

Ronin Truth
01-09-2015, 10:38 AM
"Everything government touches turns to crap." -- Ringo Starr

CaptUSA
01-09-2015, 10:41 AM
I disagree completely. There are quite a large number of useful 2 yr CC degrees that teach valuable skills that would provide value to others. Much more so than 2 years of traditional university time.CC's may teach skills that could provide value, but it is incumbent upon the individual to use those skills to actually do it. That is not being taught. They may certainly come out with skills that could provide value, without a clue about how use that to help someone else. It's one thing to know how to light a match; it's quite another to understand that you have to light someone else's fire for it to be useful.

ZENemy
01-09-2015, 10:42 AM
I mentally checked out of school when I was about 8 years old, I started to cut class in 7th grade, by high school I just stopped going.

I am now a very successful It director and personal trainer and this is after a 10 year career as a BMW tech.

specsaregood
01-09-2015, 10:49 AM
CC's may teach skills that could provide value, but it is incumbent upon the individual to use those skills to actually do it. That is not being taught. They may certainly come out with skills that could provide value, without a clue about how use that to help someone else. It's one thing to know how to light a match; it's quite another to understand that you have to light someone else's fire for it to be useful.

ok, fair enough.

brandon
01-09-2015, 11:04 AM
I mentally checked out of school when I was about 8 years old, I started to cut class in 7th grade, by high school I just stopped going.

I am now a very successful ...


Samesies, however for me going to community college after dropping out of highschool is what got my life back on track

r3volution 3.0
01-09-2015, 11:08 AM
Rand and like-minded GOPers should offer this alternative: forgive all student loans and simultaneously abolish the Federal Dept. of Education.

heavenlyboy34
01-09-2015, 11:18 AM
I don't quite understand this line of thinking. Why exactly would the quality of education go down? As long as the student going to college are qualified and there is enough money to pay for teachers (foreign and domestic), I don't see how this will negatively affects the quality of education. But the increased supply will raise the standards demanded by employees since they now have the luxury of picking from a bigger pool of applicants.

We're talking about sending "everyone" to CC. That means even more remedial courses that already exist because soo much isn't taught or is badly taught in gov'ment skools. Unis having to spend money on this will take away money from things they're designed for ("higher" ed), so you wind up with poorer schooling.

PRB
01-09-2015, 12:45 PM
I disagree completely. There are quite a large number of useful 2 yr CC degrees that teach skills that would provide value to others. Much more so than 2 years of traditional university time.

you can both be right, since the history of CC is very new.

jclay2
01-09-2015, 03:04 PM
This will creste a huge dumbing down of the system. Like others have said, the poor already have free cc tuition. This will be aimed at the middle class to get them more onboard with socialism than they already are. If you look at the prooisal , the money for this program will only keep flowing if the kids have above a 2.5. Not only will the number of cc students increase, the teachers are going to receive tons of pressure to pass the idiots to keep the money flowing. The quality will go down, quantity will go up, and avg Joe america gets to foot the bill.

devil21
01-09-2015, 04:08 PM
It's a political move to demonize Republicans who dare go against free education for the poor.

I can see that in the short term. However, the long term effect is basically forcing The People to pay for their own indoctrination. What are the odds that new courses like "Global Thinking", "Liberal Philosophy", "World Economics", and the like will be there waiting for all the "free" college students to slurp up? Seems to me this is just adding another couple years of indoctrination that Common Core can't cram into the public school curriculum.

heavenlyboy34
01-09-2015, 04:37 PM
I can see that in the short term. However, the long term effect is basically forcing The People to pay for their own indoctrination. What are the odds that new courses like "Global Thinking", "Liberal Philosophy", "World Economics", and the like will be there waiting for all the "free" college students to slurp up? Seems to me this is just adding another couple years of indoctrination that Common Core can't cram into the public school curriculum.
They might pop up, but they'll be electives (easy A's). Except for liberal arts tracks, it's hard to make those sort of classes fit into a degree track without it looking like obvious unnecessary padding. Y'all-tell me what sort of 2 year degrees/certs your local CC's offer. Last I checked, my CC district mostly offers programs in "practical" things like accounting, commercial arts, nursing, etc.

ETA: the only degree I can imagine more worthless than a BA in liberal arts is a 2 year degree in liberal arts. SMFH. /rant

alucard13mm
01-09-2015, 04:40 PM
I gotta say... i got disinterested in sciences at the university because the labs in university sucks.

They tell me to read a lab manual by myself and expect me to do the lab with minumum actual demonstration from the TA. Then we are graded on something we are doing for the first time. It just made me lose interest. Why am i paying 1,400 for this class only to be doing shit on my own

CC lab was a little bit better and the professor was there. Still, we had to do the labs the same way.

CPUd
01-09-2015, 05:32 PM
They might pop up, but they'll be electives (easy A's). Except for liberal arts tracks, it's hard to make those sort of classes fit into a degree track without it looking like obvious unnecessary padding. Y'all-tell me what sort of 2 year degrees/certs your local CC's offer. Last I checked, my CC district mostly offers programs in "practical" things like accounting, commercial arts, nursing, etc.

ETA: the only degree I can imagine more worthless than a BA in liberal arts is a 2 year degree in liberal arts. SMFH. /rant

At NSCC when they closed the parking lot and made us park way in the back, I tried to get a credit for this course:

http://i.imgur.com/d78OCtK.png

http://ww2.nscc.edu/catalog/desc/syllabi/phed/PHED1030.pdf

PRB
01-09-2015, 05:38 PM
This will creste a huge dumbing down of the system. Like others have said, the poor already have free cc tuition. This will be aimed at the middle class to get them more onboard with socialism than they already are. If you look at the prooisal , the money for this program will only keep flowing if the kids have above a 2.5. Not only will the number of cc students increase, the teachers are going to receive tons of pressure to pass the idiots to keep the money flowing. The quality will go down, quantity will go up, and avg Joe america gets to foot the bill.

is it making people stupid? or just allowing stupid people to flourish and/or fail to reach their potentials?

jclay2
01-09-2015, 06:12 PM
is it making people stupid? or just allowing stupid people to flourish and/or fail to reach their potentials?

It will make the average student dumber by the fact that teachers will be forced to lower the standards so revenue (ie students) can be maximized.

HOLLYWOOD
01-09-2015, 06:18 PM
It will make the average student dumber by the fact that teachers will be forced to lower the standards so revenue (ie students) can be maximized.Who would of thunk... George Carlin was from the future. ';)'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGL8FEMc378

PRB
01-09-2015, 06:20 PM
It will make the average student dumber by the fact that teachers will be forced to lower the standards so revenue (ie students) can be maximized.

I doubt it'll be much different than it is today.

Free education doesn't mean forced education, not everybody will go, even if it's free.

Community colleges don't lower standards today to maximize revenue, in fact, if anything, they encourage students to drop and try again, so students will try a course more than once if they don't pass, that may be retarded on its own, but the point is, lowering standards to maximize enrollment will not appreciably make education any worse than it is now.

HOLLYWOOD
01-09-2015, 06:29 PM
the 4 year colleges and Universities are lobbying behind this Obama "FREE" community college communism, because...

Anything that government touches, involves, or controls, costs 2-4 times as much for half the results. Drive up the prices of relatively low costs to CCs education, control the standards and students, it inflates the entire educational system. Exactly what special interest and government always desires. AFT and NEA are one of the highest spending lobbying groups on Washington DC and state houses.

PRB
01-09-2015, 06:34 PM
the 4 year colleges and Universities are lobbying behind this Obama "FREE" community college communism, because...

Anything that government touches, involves, or controls, costs 2-4 times as much for half the results.


The government and tax payers may spend more, but not the students and competing institutions, so why does this matter?



Drive up the prices of relatively low costs to CCs education, control the standards and students, it inflates the entire educational system.


How is cost of CC going to be driven up? It's not going to be driven up for the 'consumers' (students).

How are standards and students not in control already today? I am not seeing your point, especially how this would benefit the university system.



Exactly what special interest and government always desires. AFT and NEA are one of the highest spending lobbying groups on Washington DC and state houses.

How do 4 year institutions benefit? by having more gateway users?

CaptUSA
01-09-2015, 06:42 PM
PRB, are you yankin' us? You're not really this dumb, are ya?

1. More demand means higher prices. Anytime you subsidize something, it gets more expensive.
2. If every one who wants a CC degree can get one, it makes them just about worthless.
3. AA and AS degrees become like HS diplomas. You'll soon need a bachelors' to make it through a screening - and a masters for anything serious.

PRB
01-09-2015, 06:47 PM
PRB, are you yankin' us? You're not really this dumb, are ya?

1. More demand means higher prices. Anytime you subsidize something, it gets more expensive.


Who said there's more demand?

How is making something free making it more expensive, and for who?



2. If every one who wants a CC degree can get one, it makes them just about worthless.


No disagreement there, and CC degrees already are worthless, because of how cheap and easy it is to get them. How exactly is making it cheaper (about $1000 per semester per student) going to "drive up prices"?



3. AA and AS degrees become like HS diplomas. You'll soon need a bachelors' to make it through a screening - and a masters for anything serious.

What era do you live in to think that's not already the case? How often do you hear people hire for AA/AS only degrees? They're usually advertised as GED only.

Very rarely are anybody hired for AA/AS degree alone, AA/AS degrees aren't meant to be occupation changers, and making them cheaper/free won't make it any worse or better, just cheaper for the students.

devil21
01-09-2015, 06:54 PM
PRB, are you yankin' us? You're not really this dumb, are ya?

1. More demand means higher prices. Anytime you subsidize something, it gets more expensive.
2. If every one who wants a CC degree can get one, it makes them just about worthless.
3. AA and AS degrees become like HS diplomas. You'll soon need a bachelors' to make it through a screening - and a masters for anything serious.

This has been the case for a long time already, imo, since anyone with a pulse can go to 'college' now. A whole lot of good that's done for the economy and general intelligence of the masses /s. A standard HS diploma became the equivalent of the GED years ago. A fly-by-night college degree (University of Phoenix Online, for example....get your BS in 2.5 years!) became the advanced HS diploma. Masters is the old Bachelor's. etc etc. Unfortunately, all the college in the world won't make a dumb person smart. And boy do we know how to churn out the dummies these days....

PRB
01-09-2015, 07:02 PM
This has been the case for a long time already, imo, since anyone with a pulse can go to 'college' now. A whole lot of good that's done for the economy and general intelligence of the masses /s. A standard HS diploma became the equivalent of the GED years ago. A fly-by-night college degree (University of Phoenix Online, for example....get your BS in 2.5 years!) became the advanced HS diploma. Masters is the old Bachelor's. etc etc. Unfortunately, all the college in the world won't make a dumb person smart. And boy do we know how to churn out the dummies these days....

Like I and alucard said, it's not much worse than it is now.

Community college is already dirty cheap and allows plenty of people to drop in and fail. The only difference is less people will have debt, and the tuition bubble may temporarily deflate.

Warrior_of_Freedom
01-09-2015, 07:11 PM
$400 - $600 MIGHT cover the books for one semester.

anyone who pays 400-600 for books a semester has no financial responsibility

PRB
01-09-2015, 07:13 PM
anyone who pays 400-600 for books a semester has no financial responsibility

that's another stupid thing about college education, the textbook racket.

students are instructed and impliedly forced to buy them, they have alternatives, which is sharing, or illegally copying. The real funny thing is, the library houses tons of books the school knows students won't touch, but the books they want students to read and use daily, they don't bother housing.

Warrior_of_Freedom
01-09-2015, 07:16 PM
that's another stupid thing about college education, the textbook racket.

students are instructed and impliedly forced to buy them, they have alternatives, which is sharing, or illegally copying. The real funny thing is, the library houses tons of books the school knows students won't touch, but the books they want students to read and use daily, they don't bother housing.

My school actually had some of the textbooks, but they would try to impose like a 3 week limitation on taking them out. The librarian girl liked me so she let me take them out for the whole semester. :D

Most campuses also conveniently have their own book store with inflated prices, and even let you trade in textbooks which they give you like 40% of MSRP for, then sell back to the rest of the students for 85% MSRP.

Or you can just visit amazon.com and buy a textbook that's a few years old, with differently named chapters, but the same content, for $10-15

PRB
01-09-2015, 07:23 PM
My school actually had some of the textbooks, but they would try to impose like a 3 week limitation on taking them out. The librarian girl liked me so she let me take them out for the whole semester. :D

Most campuses also conveniently have their own book store with inflated prices, and even let you trade in textbooks which they give you like 40% of MSRP for, then sell back to the rest of the students for 85% MSRP.


I don't know what's worse, running the bookstore yourself or letting an outside profit.

but yes, I am aware of the low buyback, high msrp later, students have gotten smarter the last 10 years about it, which is good.



Or you can just visit amazon.com and buy a textbook that's a few years old, with differently named chapters, but the same content, for $10-15

assuming it's the same edition, definitely. I've actually bought "not for import to US" versions before. this was a big deal a few years ago.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/business/supreme-court-eases-sale-of-certain-products-abroad.html?_r=0

Warrior_of_Freedom
01-09-2015, 07:26 PM
I don't know what's worse, running the bookstore yourself or letting an outside profit.

but yes, I am aware of the low buyback, high msrp later, students have gotten smarter the last 10 years about it, which is good.



assuming it's the same edition, definitely. I've actually bought "not for import to US" versions before. this was a big deal a few years ago.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/business/supreme-court-eases-sale-of-certain-products-abroad.html?_r=0

I've compared my older edition textbooks with classmates who bought the latest editions and 9 times out of 10, the only difference is the name of the chapters and/or order of the chapters, a few small content fixes, and how the textbook cover looks. On one book there was an additional section in one chapter with 3 pages of new information, hardly worth paying $150 over $11.74

I had some classmates who even downloaded books for an e-reader, free of course :p

If you buy an old astronomy book it might still say Pluto is a planet #savepluto

PRB
01-09-2015, 07:36 PM
I've compared my older edition textbooks with classmates who bought the latest editions and 9 times out of 10, the only difference is the name of the chapters and/or order of the chapters, a few small content fixes, and how the textbook cover looks. On one book there was an additional section in one chapter with 3 pages of new information, hardly worth paying $150 over $11.74

I had some classmates who even downloaded books for an e-reader, free of course :p

If you buy an old astronomy book it might still say Pluto is a planet #savepluto

I agree, if it's for reading, the difference is minor. Hopefully they don't change your homework questions :P

CaptainAmerica
01-09-2015, 07:41 PM
Oh look everbody....now classes will not be available , as if its not hard enough trying to get into some specialized classes to begin with FFS.

PRB
01-09-2015, 07:50 PM
Oh look everbody....now classes will not be available , as if its not hard enough trying to get into some specialized classes to begin with FFS.

is that what Canada is telling you?

satchelmcqueen
01-09-2015, 08:30 PM
obamas "work for it" will include some time in the service i suspect.

catfeathers
01-09-2015, 08:50 PM
anyone who pays 400-600 for books a semester has no financial responsibility

Sometimes that's the best you can do because the books are compiled especially for that school. My sister-in-law went through the nursing program and her books were mostly well over $100 a piece. I get older editions and used books when I can, but that's just not always possible.
I don't have any problem this semester because 3 of my classes are using the same book as last semester and the other one is cheap. It seems odd to be only taking 4 classes, I've usually taken 5 or 6 but I have to do 120 hours of practicum this semester.

Warrior_of_Freedom
01-09-2015, 09:50 PM
Sometimes that's the best you can do because the books are compiled especially for that school. My sister-in-law went through the nursing program and her books were mostly well over $100 a piece. I get older editions and used books when I can, but that's just not always possible.
I don't have any problem this semester because 3 of my classes are using the same book as last semester and the other one is cheap. It seems odd to be only taking 4 classes, I've usually taken 5 or 6 but I have to do 120 hours of practicum this semester.
the way some schools price credits are downright stupid. like 12 credits - 18 credits are the same price. It got to the point I was doing 36 hours of classes a week to save money.

HOLLYWOOD
01-09-2015, 10:38 PM
If all 50 states participate, the proposal could benefit 9 million students each year and save students an average of $3,800 in tuition, the White House said.This has to be the biggest load of bullshitting lie of a statement since the last lies of last week.

My goodness, who the hell believes these government shit statements?

$3800 for Community College? ...maybe after Washington DC gets done artificially inflating costs and installing the Special Interest Middle Men. Then there's the taxes/fees/theft to inflate prices... eventually it all leads back to the same criminal groups robbing the people of their wealth through PONZI/PYRAMID/CON JOB schemes.

heavenlyboy34
01-09-2015, 11:05 PM
This has to be the biggest load of bullshitting lie of a statement since the last lies of last week.

My goodness, who the hell believes these government shit statements?

$3800 for Community College? ...maybe after Washington DC gets done artificially inflating costs and installing the Special Interest Middle Men. Then there's the taxes/fees/theft to inflate prices... eventually it all leads back to the same criminal groups robbing the people of their wealth through PONZI/PYRAMID/CON JOB schemes.Yup. In my state, tuition for 12 credit hours (full time load) winds up being about half that figure. IDK where they pulled those numbers from...

squarepusher
01-09-2015, 11:17 PM
Paying for CC is much better than paying for prisons and incarceration (IMO). Also, it provides America with a higher skilled workforce.

I don't see this as being all bad program, obviously its not exactly libertarian but I just see it as a much better investment than incarceration (which we already have and costs over $40k/per per person)


edit: of all the shitty things our government spends its money on, CC doesn't seem like it would be that bad in comparison.

fr33
01-09-2015, 11:20 PM
I haven't read up on it yet but... would I as a 33 year old with no college credits be able to get 2 free years out of it? If so I might take it just to do my part in collapsing this disgrace of a government.

CPUd
01-10-2015, 12:00 AM
obamas "work for it" will include some time in the service i suspect.

In TN, the requirement is 8 hrs of community service per semester. Stuff like working in a soup kitchen or animal shelter. Here is an example in the East TN area:

https://tnachieves.org/east-counties

HOLLYWOOD
01-10-2015, 12:24 AM
All you need to know... the Purple People Eaters Club endorsement. NE1 knows, whatever they say the cost are quadruple it for the real #.

http://kwout.com/cutout/u/gd/rb/qs2_bor.jpg (http://rt.com/usa/221311-obama-free-college-cost/)

Obama’s free community college plan has $60 billion price tag (http://rt.com/usa/221311-obama-free-college-cost/)

The Free Hornet
01-10-2015, 01:24 AM
I don't see this as being all bad program, obviously its not exactly libertarian but I just see it as a much better investment than incarceration (which we already have and costs over $40k/per per person)


edit: of all the shitty things our government spends its money on, CC doesn't seem like it would be that bad in comparison.

But it is not an alternative to prison ... which might be an interesting proposition however perverse an incentive (perhaps for nonviolent offenders). I also fear the cost will fall on those who do not qualify. Not 'fear', of course it will.

If one didn't qualify for free tuition, what kind of a stink ought they make competing for class time, internships/jobs, etc, with those who do qualify. Also, it is feel good BS which is formalizing an already cheap and often subsidized resource. What legal to buy items won't the goverment buy and foist into our hands? Guns....

PRB
01-10-2015, 02:26 AM
Paying for CC is much better than paying for prisons and incarceration (IMO). Also, it provides America with a higher skilled workforce.

I don't see this as being all bad program, obviously its not exactly libertarian but I just see it as a much better investment than incarceration (which we already have and costs over $40k/per per person)


edit: of all the shitty things our government spends its money on, CC doesn't seem like it would be that bad in comparison.

that's like saying paying for rehab is better than paying for imprisoning nonviolent drug offenders, it's a false choice, why do I have to pay for either?

Carson
01-10-2015, 02:35 AM
This free college concept is a total ripoff on all we hold sacred.

I look at it this way. The people with real assets are smart enough to know that some just are not worthy of the liquidation of hard earned and won assets. Sure many students are worthy and many assets are put up on a need be basis.

This counterfeiting of cash to put the unworthy through school is a way to get in the back door and loot the hard earned and won assets.

Maybe this will help make the danger of fiat money clear.

Imagine you and me are setting across from each other. We create enough money to represent all of the world's wealth. Each one of us has one SUPER Dollar in front of him.

You own half of everything and so do I.

I'm the government though. I get bribed into creating a Central Bank.

You're not doing what I want you to be doing so I print up myself eight more SUPER Dollars to manipulate you with.

All of a sudden your SUPER Dollar only represents one tenth of the wealth of the world!

That isn't the only thing though. You need to get busy and get to work because YOU'VE BEEN STIFFED with the bill for the money I PRINTED UP to get YOU TO DO what I WANTED.

That to me represents what has been happening to the economy, and us, and why so many of our occupations just can't keep up.

Anyway that is what is going to happen when they start counterfeiting for their latest war on education. I really don't think they are thinking of people. I think they are thinking is that they've come up with another way to possibly make a profit for themselves on some of these loans. When the bubble collapses they will bail themselves out with more counterfeit leaving us holding the bag.

More lives destroyed and a dollar weaker and more jobs lost as a result. You don't need a collage education to see that they are lowlifes ripping us off.

cindy25
01-10-2015, 04:18 AM
what if you could fund it by abolishing ALL foreign aid? or replacing income and race based financial aid with grade based?

PRB
01-10-2015, 04:36 AM
what if you could fund it by abolishing ALL foreign aid? or replacing income and race based financial aid with grade based?

the first financial aids are grade and merit based, income and ethnic group based ones are a recent invention.

Weston White
01-10-2015, 04:40 AM
So where in the U.S. Constitution does it enumerate powers to oversee national education and community service?

Am I the only one that feels like they are missing something here?

DamianTV
01-10-2015, 05:45 AM
So where in the U.S. Constitution does it enumerate powers to oversee national education and community service?

Am I the only one that feels like they are missing something here?

But but but but but Socialism FTW! You has a Rite to everything every1 alse has worked hard to urn!

(Could be speeled "earn" instead of "urn", eather weigh, it is a Death Sentense)

Ronin Truth
01-10-2015, 06:32 AM
Free College for All Americans (http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/free-college-for-all-americans/)

Laurence M. Vance (http://www.lewrockwell.com/author/laurence-m-vance/?ptype=lrc-blog)

Obama to announce (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/01/08/obama-free-community-college/21466969/) his crackpot proposal today. Republicans already believe in free K-12 education for everyone so I don’t know why they will object to free college as well.

8:06 am on January 9, 2015

Email Laurence M. Vance (lmvance@juno.com)

The Best of Laurence M. Vance (http://www.lewrockwell.com/author/laurence-m-vance/?ptype=lrc-blog)



http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/free-college-for-all-americans/

Suzanimal
01-10-2015, 06:45 AM
But I thought it was free???



Obama’s free community college plan has $60 billion price tag

President Barack Obama proposed offering two years of community college free of charge to Americans “willing to work for it,” and the White House announced Friday the plan would cost $60 billion over 10 years.

According to White House spokesman Ed Schultz, states involved in the program would contribute $20 billion, while the federal government provides the rest.

The initiative, which President Obama officially announced on Friday at a Tennessee community college, is said to be aimed at addressing growing income inequality. The White House says by 2020 it is estimated that 35 percent of job openings will require at least a bachelor’s degree, and 30 percent will require an associate’s degree.

"Community college should be free for those willing to work for it because, in America, a quality education should not be a privilege that is reserved for a few," Obama said in a speech at Pellissippi State Community College. He said a high school diploma is no longer enough for American workers to compete in the global economy and that a college degree is "the surest ticket to the middle class."

Forty percent of college students are enrolled at one of America’s more than 1,100 community colleges, which offer affordable tuition, open admissions policies and convenient locations – and the courses are suitable for students who are older, working, in need of remedial classes or can only take classes part-time.

Obama plans to push the proposal during his State of the Union address on January 20, and will be seeking a Republican Congress to support his $60 billion idea.

The White House estimated that 9 million students could eventually participate and save an average of $3,800 in tuition per year if they attend full-time. Students would qualify if they attend at least halftime, maintain a 2.5 grade point average and make progress toward completing a degree or certificate program. Participating schools would have to meet certain academic requirements.

Tuition and fees at community college averaged $3,347 in the 2014-2015 school year, compared to $9,139 at public, four-year universities, and $31,231 at private colleges, according to The New York Times.

The federal government, however, already spends lots of money on student aid, according to National Public Radio – $47 billion on grants a year, $101 billion in loans (which are repaid), and another $20 billion in tax credits. When including state, federal and private money going to defray the cost of tuition – separate from state appropriations going directly to institutions – some $247 billion is spent per year.

READ MORE: Obama ‘not to sign’ Keystone XL pipeline bill, Senate set for Friday vote

Obama’s plan would alleviate the financial burden on many who could now choose to attend community colleges for their first two years, but it does little to address the skyrocketing cost of tuition at four-year universities, where many community college students transfer after one or two years.

Federal Pell Grants for low-income students used to cover much or all of their costs at four-year universities, but now they cover just 34 percent of tuition, fees, and room-and-board – and states have been making reductions to their support for higher education since 2008. In Michigan, state financial aid plummeted by $135 million, or over 60 percent. In Iowa, spending on public universities dropped by 20 percent, or $141 million.

...

http://rt.com/usa/221311-obama-free-college-cost/

Ronin Truth
01-10-2015, 06:54 AM
So where in the U.S. Constitution does it enumerate powers to oversee national education and community service?

Am I the only one that feels like they are missing something here? Yes.

juleswin
01-10-2015, 08:02 AM
This has to be the biggest load of bullshitting lie of a statement since the last lies of last week.

My goodness, who the hell believes these government shit statements?

$3800 for Community College? ...maybe after Washington DC gets done artificially inflating costs and installing the Special Interest Middle Men. Then there's the taxes/fees/theft to inflate prices... eventually it all leads back to the same criminal groups robbing the people of their wealth through PONZI/PYRAMID/CON JOB schemes.

I don't think you are reading it correctly. The idea is to steer people away from 4 yr colleges in the first 2 years and replace it with community colleges. So the savings is the difference per semester between a traditional 4 yr college and a community college. Just the same way a person buy ham burgers instead of steak is saving money. A student who goes to community college the first 2 years for their general courses will actually save more than that in a year.

$3800 is just the difference in cost between the 2 not the cost of going to a community college.

juleswin
01-10-2015, 08:21 AM
But it is not an alternative to prison ... which might be an interesting proposition however perverse an incentive (perhaps for nonviolent offenders). I also fear the cost will fall on those who do not qualify. Not 'fear', of course it will.

If one didn't qualify for free tuition, what kind of a stink ought they make competing for class time, internships/jobs, etc, with those who do qualify. Also, it is feel good BS which is formalizing an already cheap and often subsidized resource. What legal to buy items won't the goverment buy and foist into our hands? Guns....

I read somewhere that the requirement is like having a 2.5 GPA. If that is true, then there is no real fear of this being a problem. Cos if you cant get a 2.5 GPA then college shouldn't be a concern for you.

One of my classmates went to school in Belgium where tuition was free or almost free to citizens and over there the entrance to University is open to everyone just as long as you can pass your exams. If not then you are kicked out and no amount of money will buy your way back in. And quite frankly, I have no problem with having an academic achievement requirement for entrance or staying to universities

PRB
01-10-2015, 03:31 PM
So where in the U.S. Constitution does it enumerate powers to oversee national education and community service?

Am I the only one that feels like they are missing something here?

you're a little late to complain about the Dept of Ed having been established 30 years ago.

Lord Xar
01-10-2015, 04:32 PM
you're a little late to complain about the Dept of Ed having been established 30 years ago.

Cops have always murdered innocent people... why complain now?
We have been in wars with towel-heads for over ten years, why pull out now?
I've faked disability to get a free government check for nearly 12 years, why take it away now...?

Your statement is about as dumb as those phrases above. C'mon, put your thinking cap on.

PRB
01-10-2015, 04:38 PM
Cops have always murdered innocent people... why complain now?
We have been in wars with towel-heads for over ten years, why pull out now?
I've faked disability to get a free government check for nearly 12 years, why take it away now...?

Your statement is about as dumb as those phrases above. C'mon, put your thinking cap on.

I'll tell you why.

I wouldn't argue any of those are Constitutional issues. I would only argue that any further use of government and force is morally, practically but also legally wrong.

So, for practical purposes, I don't see why 2 more years of free education is going to hurt anybody other than people who depend on accounting for tuition collection and a fractional burden on taxpayers. I can hate it on principle, but I laugh when somebody acts like this will destroy college education as if it's worth anything today. This kind of mentality is a lot like the Teabagger creed : everything was perfect until 2008 when Americans elected a Kenyan born socialist.

Suzanimal
01-16-2015, 09:39 AM
Uhhhh, Community College Education Is Already Free, Mr. President

Education: President Obama is announcing a $60 billion plan to make two years of community college "free." Hold on. The College Board reports that that a two-year public education is already effectively free. This is pork.

As with all of his spending plan proposals, President Obama thinks big. On Thursday, he told a community college audience in Knoxville, Tenn., of his new 10-year, $60 billion plan to provide "free" college tuition to nine million students across the country, an idea that the left will lap up.

As always, he tried to sell it as a bootstrap initiative.

"Community colleges should be free for those willing to work for it," Obama said. "It's not a blank check, not a free lunch, but for those willing to do the work ... it can be a game-changer."

He'd have you think that nine million people are being shut out of "the middle class" for lack of money, as if federal grants, federal loans, private scholarships and the bloated Department of Education never existed.

It's a straw man. The reality is that community college is essentially not only free, it's actually profitable.

According to the latest 2013 Trends In Pricing Report from the College Board, the average (not honors or scholarship) student enrolled full time in a two-year public college in 2013-14 "receives enough funding through tax benefits and grant aid from all sources to cover tuition and fees, plus about $1,550 in other expenses." With average tuition and fees at $3,260 and average total grants at $4,810, that's a net gain in income.

President Obama's plans to make college "tuition-free" are little more than an effort to further federalize and Obama-fy education, just as he did health care — and with the same kinds of unintended consequences.

To start with, the community college system is not broken — in fact, it's one of the best options for students of any stripe. Classes tend to serve those with a purpose-driven educational aim and offer excellent vocational training to those who seek it.

Costs are mostly affordable even without aid and can be financed by a student earning McDonald's wages.

Moreover, these institutions tend to be loaded with top teaching talent — including professors with real-world experience and highly motivated teachers who cannot break into the leaden public school system with its rigid seniority system.

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Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/010915-734120-uhhhh-community-college-education-is-already-free-mr-president.htm#ixzz3P01CxQl4