Don’t have health insurance? Well there’s more bad news coming for you in 2015

[Suzanimal]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The cost of being uninsured in America is going up significantly next year for millions of people.

It’s the first year all taxpayers have to report to the Internal Revenue Service whether they had health insurance for the previous year, as required under President Barack Obama’s law. Those who were uninsured face fines, unless they qualify for one of about 30 exemptions, most of which involve financial hardships.

Dayna Dayson of Phoenix estimates that she’ll have to pay the tax man $290 when she files her federal return. Dayson, who’s in her early 30s, works in marketing and doesn’t have a lot left over each month after housing, transportation and other fixed costs. She’d like health insurance but she couldn’t afford it in 2014, as required by the law.

“It’s touted as this amazing thing, but right now, for me, it doesn’t fit into my budget,” she said.

Ryan Moon of Des Moines, Iowa, graduated from college in 2013 with a bachelor’s degree in political science and is still hunting for a permanent job with benefits. He expects to pay a fine of $95. A supporter of the health care law, he feels conflicted about its insurance mandate and fines.

“I hate the idea that you have to pay a penalty, but at the same time, it helps other people,” said Moon, who’s in his early 20s. “It really helps society, but society has to be forced to help society.”:rolleyes:

Going without health insurance has always involved financial risks. You could have an accident and end up with thousands of dollars in medical bills. Now, you may also get fined. In a decision that allowed Obama’s law to advance, the Supreme Court ruled in 2012 that the coverage requirement and its accompanying fines were a constitutionally valid exercise of Congress’ authority to tax.

In 2015, all taxpayers have to report to the IRS on their health insurance status the previous year. Most will check a box. It’s also when the IRS starts collecting fines from some uninsured people, and deciding if others qualify for exemptions.

What many people don’t realize is that the penalties go up significantly in 2015. Only 3 percent of uninsured people know what the fine for 2015 will be, according to a recent poll by the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation.

Figuring out your potential exposure if you’re uninsured isn’t simple.

For 2014, the fine is the greater of $95 per person or 1 percent of household income above the threshold for filing taxes. It will jump in 2015 to the greater of 2 percent of income or $325. By 2016, the average fine will be about $1,100, based on government figures.

People can get a sense of the potential hit by going online and using the Tax Policy Center’s Affordable Care Act penalty calculator.

Many taxpayers may be able to get a pass. Based on congressional analysis, tax preparation giant H&R Block says roughly 4 million uninsured people will pay penalties and 26 million will qualify for exemptions from the list of more than 30 waivers.
But it’s unclear whether taxpayers are aware of the exemptions.

Deciding what kind of waiver to seek could be crucial. Some can be claimed directly on a tax return, but others involve mailing paperwork to the Health and Human Services Department. Tax preparation companies say the IRS has told them it’s taking steps to make sure taxpayers’ returns don’t languish in bureaucratic limbo while HHS rules on their waivers.

TurboTax has created a free online tool called “Exemption Check” for people to see if they may qualify for a waiver. Charges apply later if the taxpayer files through TurboTax.

Timing will be critical for uninsured people who want to avoid the rising penalties for 2015.

That’s because Feb. 15 is the last day of open enrollment under the health law. After that, only people with special circumstances can sign up. But just 5 percent of uninsured people know the correct deadline, according to the Kaiser poll.

“We could be looking at a real train wreck after Feb. 15,” said Stan Dorn, a health policy expert at the nonpartisan Urban Institute. “People will file their tax returns and learn they are subject to a much larger penalty for 2015, and they can do absolutely nothing to avoid that.”

The insurance requirement and penalties remain the most unpopular part of the health care law. They were intended to serve a broader purpose by nudging healthy people into the insurance pool, helping to keep premiums more affordable.

Sensitive to political backlash, supporters of the health care law have played down the penalties in their sign-up campaigns. But stressing the positive — such as the availability of financial help and the fact that insurers can no longer turn away people with health problems — may be contributing to the information gap about the penalties.

Dayson, the Phoenix resident, says she’s hoping her employer will offer a health plan she can fit into her budget, allowing her to avoid higher fines for 2015.

In Des Moines, recent college graduate Moon has held a succession of temporary local and state government jobs that don’t provide affordable coverage. The penalties are on his mind.
“When it gets up to $325, I hope I have a career that actually offers me a good health care plan,” he said.

Read more at http://rare.us/story/dont-have-health-insurance-well-theres-more-bad-news-coming-for-you-in-2015/#LMUKw5eALcp7QsKo.99

[DamianTV]

Yeah, this is a good incentive for people to file their taxes. Not!

[KCIndy]

Ryan Moon of Des Moines, Iowa, graduated from college in 2013 with a bachelor’s degree in political science and is still hunting for a permanent job with benefits. He expects to pay a fine of $95. A supporter of the health care law, he feels conflicted about its insurance mandate and fines.

“I hate the idea that you have to pay a penalty, but at the same time, it helps other people,” said Moon, who’s in his early 20s. “It really helps society, but society has to be forced to help society.”


Yep. Another future politician who is planning on using the power of the state to do what is right as he sees it.... :(

[Occam's Banana]

yan Moon of Des Moines, Iowa, graduated from college in 2013 with a bachelor’s degree in political science and is still hunting for a permanent job with benefits. He expects to pay a fine of $95. A supporter of the health care law, he feels conflicted about its insurance mandate and fines.

“I hate the idea that you have to pay a penalty, but at the same time, it helps other people,” said Moon, who’s in his early 20s. “It really helps society, but society has to be forced to help society.”Yep. Another future politician who is planning on using the power of the state to do what is right as he sees it.... :(

Haven't you heard? Society has to be forced to help society!

That means someone's gotta do the forcing ... erm, excuse me, my bad ... I mean "helping" ... *nudge-nudge-wink-wink*

[RPtotheWH]

Good thing I am a scientologist, makes me exempt from all this crap ;)

[Czolgosz]

I don't report to the IRS.

[aGameOfThrones]

“I hate the idea that you have to pay a penalty, but at the same time, it helps other people,” said Moon, who’s in his early 20s. “It really helps society, but society has to be forced to help society.”

http://funnytshirts.savatoons.com/images/slavery.gif

[Cissy]

“I hate the idea that you have to pay a penalty, but at the same time, it helps other people,” said Moon, who’s in his early 20s. “It really helps society, but society has to be forced to help society.”

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~arihuang/academic/abg/slavery/slavery.gif

[Dianne]

If we can get rid of Obama's right hand man, Boehner, we should be able to get rid of Obamacare which is of course the biggest scam ever perpetrated upon the citizens.

[KEEF]

If we can get rid of Obama's right hand man, Boehner, we should be able to get rid of Obamacare which is of course the biggest scam ever perpetrated upon the citizens.
... second biggest, we have President Wilson and the Federal Reserve Act. Of course now that I am thinking about history, 9/11 is probably bigger scam than Obamacare too.

But in actuallity it all is one big scam since it is all coming from the same PTB.

[jbauer]

Yep. Another future politician who is planning on using the power of the state to do what is right as he sees it.... :(

The penalty isn't going to do jack $hit to help other people with their healthcare. Its a friggin TAX, its going into the tax purses general fund. Zero help for zero people.

[Republicanguy]

Yep. Another future politician who is planning on using the power of the state to do what is right as he sees it.... :(

What he ultimately is getting at is everyone is greedy, and nobody wants to help anyone for the sake of it.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

What he ultimately is getting at is everyone is greedy, and nobody wants to help anyone for the sake of it.


This is an absolute statement. You're saying that nobody helps anyone?

[Republicanguy]

Most will turn a blind eye, whether one believes in a god or not.

The whole point in a socialist system is to force everyone who earns enough to pay a tax to create a safety net for all. Otherwise, you only have charity, that is why I don't agree with Mr Ron Paul on this. That was what the man was getting at, it's just this system appears to be broken according to what certain posters here have explained. I didn't know whether or not this program was good, and as I don't live in the states it isn't a position I can understand.

I imagined it was the opposition to a government program was the reason behind this, not because it is broken.

As for his son, no. They are similar.

Like others have said in the past, people can be selfish, so just because somebody has cash and has the freedom to give, it doesn't mean a person who needs a little healthcare can get that help. So therefore a system like this does it forcefully by stealing.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Most will turn a blind eye, whether one believes in a god or not.



I once sold a fund raising database for a job. I never talked with moneyed people, but talked a lot with people who interacted with the well-to-do. They often told me that so many well-to-do people did not know where to give their money. Some were overwhelmed with all the places they could donate. Some wanted to have purpose. Some probably delayed for tax reasons. I'm sure there were some looking to cement some type of legacy.

People have all different reasons for giving. Here are some U.S. stats (below).

The line about America not being able to operate might be exaggerated, but I think about 60% of the money for PBS television comes from donations. Their program Nature is, hands down, the best animal show on TV. Roughly 30% of tuition for college students is donated. There are lots of examples like these.



From the link at the bottom:


Few people realize how large charities have become, how many vital services they provide, and how much funding flows through them each year. Without charities and non-profits, America would simply not be able to operate. Their operations are so big that during 2013, total giving was more than $335 billion.




How big is the sector?

Total giving to charitable organizations was $335.17 billion in 2013 (about 2% of GDP). This is an increase of 4.4% from 2012. Although this is the fourth straight year that giving has increased, it is still not at the pre-recession level of $349.5 billion seen in 2007.

As in previous years, the majority of that giving came from individuals. Specifically, individuals gave roughly $240.6 billion (72%) representing a 4.2% increase over 2012. And it was the additional $9.69 billion in gifts made by individuals that was the main reason overall giving is up in 2013.
Giving by bequest was $27.73 billion (up 8.7%), foundations gave $48.96 billion (up 5.7%), and corporations donated $17.88 billion (down 1.9%).
Corporate giving accounts for just 5% of the total giving in 2013. And it was down primarily because of the slow growth in corporate pre-tax profits.

Five types of charities have reached or surpassed all-time high giving levels since the recession ended in mid-2009. ◦ Giving to Education charities was up 8.9% to $52.07 billion.
◦ Donations to Human Services charities were up 2.2% to $41.51 billion.
◦ Foundations saw an increase of 15.5% to $35.74 billion.
◦ Health charities experienced an increase of 6% to $31.86 billion.
◦ Charities that focus on the Environment / Animals saw an increase of 7.5% to $9.72 billion.

Giving to International charities slowed due to fewer overseas disasters.

Historically, Religious groups have received the largest share of charitable donations. While this was still true in 2013, the percentage dropped by 2% from 2012 making this the fifth year in a row it was down or flat. Even with the 0.2% decrease in donations this year, 31% of all donations ($105.53 billion) went to Religious organizations. Much of these contributions can be attributed to people giving to their local place of worship.

The next largest sector was Education with 16% of all donations.


All data is the property of Giving USA 2014, the Annual Report on Philanthropy.


http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=42#.VKydXJU5BC1

[ChristianAnarchist]

Good thing I am a scientologist, makes me exempt from all this crap ;)

Does the church of scientology welcome Christian anarchists?? Maybe I should join...

[KCIndy]

What he ultimately is getting at is everyone is greedy, and nobody wants to help anyone for the sake of it.

In that case, he's wrong. Demonstrably wrong.

[DamianTV]

Socialism is the great lie where everyone lives at the expense of everyone else.

[Republicanguy]

Socialism is the great lie where everyone lives at the expense of everyone else.

Recently the Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, put forward an initiative for free school meals last year, recently children complained they weren't very good. He is a Liberal Democrat Member of parliament.

I guess bad cases.

Ofcourse in the states that doesn't exist not even for those parents who aren't employed, due to a health problem.

I think our nature is more rightwing than leftwing, with the ups and downs of human nature.

I remember last year a Cuban sympathiser who was European claimed the media lied about the state of being in the state. But there is no freedom there. And he was a member of the trade union here....um. I don't remember which one, aligned with the Labour party.

I remember saying to him they are a bit extreme, and leftwing policies aren't really welcome throughout society only to those who need them. Ofcourse it all adds up to belief.

So I guess the American socialist party is pretty deserted these days:D

[pcosmar]

Recently the Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, put forward an initiative for free school meals last year, recently children complained they weren't very good. He is a Liberal Democrat Member of parliament.

I guess bad cases.

Ofcourse in the states that doesn't exist not even for those parents who aren't employed, due to a health problem.

I think our nature is more rightwing than leftwing, with the ups and downs of human nature.

I remember last year a Cuban sympathiser who was European claimed the media lied about the state of being in the state. But there is no freedom there. And he was a member of the trade union here....um. I don't remember which one, aligned with the Labour party.

I remember saying to him they are a bit extreme, and leftwing policies aren't really welcome throughout society only to those who need them. Ofcourse it all adds up to belief.

So I guess the American socialist party is pretty deserted these days:D

Wow,,
Cuban sympathiser

is that a good or bad thing

I'm sympathetic

Socialism in America has been intrenched since the 1900s.
And in Canada,, right across the ditch.

[Republicanguy]

The controversial old film by Mr Moore, that depicts a tough reality for some of the most poorest in society there. According to the film it is partly propaganda against communism that created the scare and anti state sanctioned healthcare decades ago. Tony Benn was in it, democracy is the most revoluntionary thing ever. Sure is.

Even the now serving Irish President Micheal Higgins over a year before he was elected in May 2010 on a radio show as a member of the Irish parliament he thought it was stupid that not even those who have been employed all they're lives could not receive healthcare over the years.

[Dr. Dog]

democracy is the most revoluntionary thing ever. Sure is. the years.
No, freedom is. That's why so many people reject it, it's too radical.

[Republicanguy]

Freedom from what? How is freedom secure without some group having power, here or there. Freedom can't exist like some kind of protected rights, because that just takes away the freedom to go another way. So freedom is just all one other group's outlook.

[pcosmar]

Freedom from what? How is freedom secure without some group having power, here or there. Freedom can't exist like some kind of protected rights, because that just takes away the freedom to go another way. So freedom is just all one other group's outlook.

No,, freedom works for everyone's best interests,, or it is not freedom at all. it is privilege.
That may be easily confused,, considering the land you are from.

[oyarde]

The penalty isn't going to do jack $hit to help other people with their healthcare. Its a friggin TAX, its going into the tax purses general fund. Zero help for zero people.

Correct . Simply more theft.

[presence]

Like others have said in the past, people can be selfish, so just because somebody has cash and has the freedom to give, it doesn't mean a person who needs a little healthcare can get that help. So therefore a system like this does it forcefully by stealing.


Injustice on a large enough scale, is stronger, freer, and more masterly than justice (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?484286-Injustice-on-a-large-enough-scale-is-stronger-freer-and-more-masterly-than-justice)

[Republicanguy]

I was reading about Governor Wolf's intention to want to raise taxes for various state government programs, and the congress doesn't want to. I doubt the opposition really care deep down.

The debt of the state must be through the roof already.

I have yet to get a response from Mr Corbyn on economics, or going forward. Being a leader of a party isn't a stand alone MP as he was a few months back.

But, there are worst problems than finances, nuclear tech, pollution, environmental destruction. These are immediate as well short term, and long term. Just what will my reality be like in half a century 2065, I'll be seventy five in that year. Freedom from disease, hunger, over popullation, energy resource, and mineral decline.

Well the copyright on Star trek will sure of ended by then.

[Weston White]

Freedom is secured through liberty; in a constitutional republic, liberty, is beset by fundamental rights that are individualistic by virtue.

[Acala]

Freedom is secured through liberty; in a constitutional republic, liberty, is beset by fundamental rights that are individualistic by virtue.

Say what?

[Dr. Dog]

I have yet to get a response from Mr Corbyn on economics
Expect something that makes about as much sense as this:

http://www.escapeintolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Azoot.png

[TheTexan]

“I hate the idea that you have to pay a penalty, but at the same time, it helps other people,” said Moon, who’s in his early 20s. “It really helps society, but society has to be forced to help society.”

I guess the tax you pay for not having healthcare makes the healthcare cheaper for everyone else. I haven't checked healthcare prices lately, but surely that plan is working great I think.

Either way he's got a great attitude about it. He has bright future in America.

[angelatc]

What he ultimately is getting at is everyone is greedy, and nobody wants to help anyone for the sake of it.

Even if that were true (which it is demonstrably not) it would be an argument against government, not for it.

[Republicanguy]

Nobody will give unless they have a well paid employment/ and or support structure or a bit of both.

An individual is just that, collectivism is a bad idea from a wealthy successful person, but then it doesn't matter about anyone else, so long as a person can provide for themselves, it doesn't matter whether one lives or dies.

That is the ultimate analysis from individualism with any collectivism in society.

What would any state really look like without collectivist policies.

Okay, for a young person in America, twenty one or two and they are employed in customer service, like in a restuarant.

Can that person earning a minium wage or what ever it may be somewhere, can they afford a healthcare plan and what kind of plan?

[Dr. Dog]

collectivism is a bad idea
Finally you say something intelligent!!!

[Republicanguy]

How about somebody here answer the question?

What plan can a young person as the example given?

Collectivism is a bad idea from a successful person's view, not a poor person living on a low wage for may be their whole life.

[MelissaWV]

How about somebody here answer the question?

What plan can a young person as the example given?

Collectivism is a bad idea from a successful person's view, not a poor person living on a low wage for may be their whole life.

"What plan can a young person as the example given?" is not a complete question. That makes it notoriously difficult to answer.

[Occam's Banana]

Collectivism is a bad idea from a successful person's view, not a poor person living on a low wage for may be their whole life. So what? Why should things be done on the basis of what admittedly unsuccessful people think is "not a bad idea" ... ?

[Republicanguy]

What kind of future is that? And then to top it off with god rubbish for those who certainly believe in that.

If there is only one life, then even poor people should be able to live.

[MelissaWV]

What kind of future is that? And then to top it off with god rubbish for those who certainly believe in that.

If there is only one life, then even poor people should be able to live.

While everyone with a job should be forced to give away a good chunk of their earnings to the bureaucracy that can then decide to send a small portion of that chunk to programs that might help some of the poor? Sounds legit.

[Republicanguy]

You understand my meaning of the query here, that a young person who doesn't have healthcare means they can't get treatment months down the line.

That person must have the money to do so, and they need good employment or can any employment secure a healthcare plan, what type what is covered?

[Occam's Banana]

What kind of future is that?

One in which the question "what is to be done" is not answered with "whatever unsuccessful people happen to think is a good idea."


And then to top it off with god rubbish for those who certainly believe in that.

Who said anything about "god rubbish?" What the hell are you even talking about?
Do you just interject random babble whenever you don't have an answer to something?


If there is only one life, then even poor people should be able to live.

If poor people weren't able to live, they wouldn't be poor people, they'd be dead people (and thus past caring about such matters).

You are not talking about poor people being able to live. You are talking about robbing other people in order get whatever it is you fancy you're entitled to merely because you are sucking air. Those are not even remotely the same thing. You are not entitled to the property or labor of others merely because you are alive.

Absolutely no one - whether rich or poor - has any "right" whatseover to rob anyone else of anything (neither "in person" nor by proxy). The rich man who thinks his wealth & power entitles him to rob the poor and the poor man who thinks his poverty & weakness entitles him to rob the rich deserve one another - but they should both just leave the rest of us the hell alone ...

[Dr.3D]

One in which the question "what is to be done" is not answered with "whatever unsuccessful people happen to think is a good idea."



Who said anything about "god rubbish?" What the hell are you even talking about?
Do you just interject random babble whenever you don't have an answer to something?



If poor people weren't able to live, they wouldn't be poor people, they'd be dead people (and thus past caring about such matters).

You are not talking about poor people being able to live. You are talking about robbing other people in order get whatever it is you fancy you're entitled to merely because you are sucking air. Those are not even remotely the same thing. You are not entitled to the property or labor of others merely because you are alive.

Absolutely no one - whether rich or poor - has any "right" whatseover to rob anyone else of anything (neither "in person" nor by proxy). The rich man who thinks his wealth & power entitles him to rob the poor and the poor man who thinks his poverty & weakness entitles him to rob the rich deserve one another - but they should both just leave the rest of us the hell alone ...

Sure doesn't sound like a republican guy to me.

[MelissaWV]

You understand my meaning of the query here, that a young person who doesn't have healthcare means they can't get treatment months down the line.

That person must have the money to do so, and they need good employment or can any employment secure a healthcare plan, what type what is covered?

No, I can honestly say I have very little idea what the hell you're asking. It sounds like (per your "what kind of future is that?" post) you're merely interested in getting something for "free." If I give you $100, it's probably going to be way more effective than Government taking $100 from me by force, of which maybe $1 will actually get to you. Picture this amplified into the millions and you start to get the very basics of why it's a bad idea.

The young person can obtain insurance, they can get insured through their job, they can try to save up for catastrophes, they can receive emergency treatment at a hospital for things that cannot wait, they can look up charity screenings in their area (there are even trucks that do wellness checks and mammograms now), they can participate in research studies, they can seek help through charitable organizations, they can crowdfund, they can get family/friends to chip in, they can fundraise, they can bargain down the price of a procedure/medication, they can ask for free medication from pharmaceutical companies... and all that ObamaCare's mandates do is pinch off the ability of any of those aforementioned processes to work as efficiently as possible.

America had a huge health insurance and healthcare crisis. Now it's got this as well. It had a gangrenous leg, so the doctor chopped off an arm and yanked out a molar.

[Republicanguy]

What is that person doesn't have friends or family or they move off or aren't around. Then what?

What kind of answer for all is that.

The point in mentioning about belief is some who think this way that a government program is bad because they use the money for other ideas that aren't related to medical as one example is the reason why people support private health.

And every low paid job offers health insurance, does it really? Bargain with a healthcare provider, are you serious! I'll keep this instead of that in the long run. Fundraise!! Fucking hell!

The idea that a poor employee or a wealthy one shouldnt' be taxed because it equals legalised theft is a noble one, but a misguided outlook in general.

[Occam's Banana]

The idea that a poor employee or a wealthy one shouldnt' be taxed because it equals legalised theft is a noble one, but a misguided outlook in general.

No, the idea that theft is not okay is NOT a "noble" idea. It's just basic morality.

YOU are the one misguidedly trying to wrap "noble" sentiment around the idea that it is okay to steal from other people.

And what makes it even worse is that you are too cowardly to do the stealing yourself - you want someone else (such as politicians and bureaucrats) to do it for you.

[Republicanguy]

Once again the question of morality is twisted.

Legalised theft is all that is concerned here. Just a society full of unwell people with no health available is so nineteenth century ir even eighteenth or hell seventeenth century.

I recall one panel member on Question Time which is a BBC broadcast program where a lady spoke of American society being so backward on this subject alone. It just sends shivers down the spine, to think how vulnerable some citizens are months down the line, a mere gun wound or knife robbery or accident taken to the hospital to get stitched up and treated.

[Origanalist]

Sure doesn't sound like a republican guy to me.

Different country.

[Republicanguy]

I'm an English republican, but due to the fact that England, Wales and Scotland, also NI.

One country together makes it economically beneficial, even though England does lose its status as a state entirely. But that is a price, for a shared partnership of combined and selfish interest.

The former Scottish Minister Alex Salmond warned the English citizens of the British government's attempt to destroy the National Health service years ago.

[Dr.3D]

Different country.
So it is with those third world countries.

:p

[MelissaWV]

I am honestly the only person who finds it ironic that the Englishman has so much trouble communicating in English?

[Suzanimal]

I am honestly the only person who finds it ironic that the Englishman has so much trouble communicating in English?

I think it's the accent.

[Republicanguy]

It is horrendus, always the stereotype. I guess y'all fat and drive up down every road when possible.

[MelissaWV]

It is horrendus, always the stereotype. I guess y'all fat and drive up down every road when possible.

I do drive on the road whenever possible. It's better for cars, really.

As for what I kind of sort of think you said earlier, those people who don't have friends and family used to depend on charity. There used to be more charitable hospitals. There are currently teaching hospitals that can fix you up for free or reduced cost, and provide a valuable service to physicians/nurses/surgeons just starting out. There are endowments to various hospitals set aside just for certain types of patients. The list goes on and on there, too; I already posted a number of options. The fact that you want to pretend everyone's going to drop dead without the Government forcing people to give up their money (which they can more efficiently use to pay for their own costs) is your own problem. Again, charity is lovely, but it's idiotic to think that having someone take my money, use a huge chunk of it to pay themselves for taking my money, use another chunk of it to decide where to put what remains of my money, and then finally disburse a sum that in no way resembles my original involuntary contribution... How far up your ass does your head need to be for that to sound like a good idea?

[Suzanimal]

It is horrendus, always the stereotype. I guess y'all fat and drive up down every road when possible.

Don't get your knickers in a knot.

[Occam's Banana]

Once again the question of morality is twisted.

Legalised theft is all that is concerned here. Just a society full of unwell people with no health available is so nineteenth century ir even eighteenth or hell seventeenth century.

I recall one panel member on Question Time which is a BBC broadcast program where a lady spoke of American society being so backward on this subject alone. It just sends shivers down the spine, to think how vulnerable some citizens are months down the line, a mere gun wound or knife robbery or accident taken to the hospital to get stitched up and treated.

You are the only one twisting morality here. You have no rational rebuttal, so you just trot out more sob-story bullshit to justify seizing the property and labor of others.

You are every bit as bad as the rich people who do the same kind of thing for their own benefit.

But what is most pathetic of all is that you seem to think that a world of caring, compassion and human decency can be erected upon the foundation of your envy, resentment and sense of entitlement to things that you can't imagine being able acquire except by forcing others to give them to you.

[oyarde]

It is horrendus, always the stereotype. I guess y'all fat and drive up down every road when possible.

I am not fat yet , but I do drive around several days a week .

[Republicanguy]

Over here apparently Prime Minister Cameron's constituency is now starting to see the services reduced, of course he had a problem with that, while the poorer parts of the country have have had this problem more so.

And no this selfish nonsence about the government robbing the taxes of people to help those who don't have much or are low paid or unemployed short term or longterm is just wrong. Otherwise, Charles Dickens England is the next road.

Sure, emulate a society where there is no taxes to provide services through force. It can all be done through business and charity.

An ipad was created due to socialist concept of public ownership that made it possible for Apple to go further, after all, no private business just invents everything. Does it!