St Louis police kill 'armed' black teenager

[aGameOfThrones]

Police say the victim was shot after producing a handgun at a petrol station

A black teenager has been shot dead by police in the US city of St Louis, near where Michael Brown was killed in August triggering national protests.

St Louis County police said the man who was shot had pulled a gun at a petrol station and pointed it at an officer.

A crowd of protesters was at the scene in Berkeley, Missouri, which has been sealed off by police.

Berkeley is about two miles from the suburb of Ferguson, where 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot dead.

The victim of the Berkeley shooting was named as Antonio Martin, 18, by local media citing his mother.

Police spokesman Sgt Brian Schellman said in a statement that an officer had been "conducting a routine business check" at a petrol station on Tuesday evening when he saw two men and approached them.

Police struggled to control the crowd that gathered at the scene of the shooting
He said that one of the men pointed a handgun at the officer, who then fired several shots.

The second man fled, Sgt Schellman said, adding that the handgun had been recovered.

Laura Hettiger, a reporter for St Louis TV station KMOV, told the BBC: "As soon as I got there police started firing off flash bangs which are used to, hopefully, disperse some of the crowd.

"A lot of police are still on the scene. A couple of people have ended up looting the gas station just across the street."



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30596531


Reuters article: http://news.yahoo.com/police-shoot-black-teen-missouri-gas-station-085737203.html

[Weston White]

So was he producing a firearm or did he brandish a firearm? There is a vast difference there.

And why is it literally each time one of these types of stories comes out it is only the police officers that fires multiple shots, yet the perp never-ever fires back ONCE, even when getting the jump on drawing down on the officers?

[Czolgosz]

Lol

[euphemia]

And why is it the assumption is always that the police are wrong?

i know some people hate police and think they are always wrong. That is just a huge stretch of logic.

[Origanalist]

A couple of people have ended up looting the gas station just across the street."

The stupid, it hurts. Somebody was shot..., hey, I know! Let's loot something!

[Weston White]

And why is it the assumption is always that the police are wrong?

Oh I don't know, why don't you go ahead and ask that question to 70-year old, disabled veteran Bobby Canipe or even to Levar Jones?

[moostraks]

And why is it the assumption is always that the police are wrong?

i know some people hate police and think they are always wrong. That is just a huge stretch of logic.

See here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?390933-Police-Abuse

Here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?465404-quot-Michael-Brown-learned-a-lesson-about-a-messin-with-a-badass-policeman-quot

and here:http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2047569!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/article-breathe2-1216.jpg

Maybe one day you will understand why the police are hated by their employers and why it ain't that big a stretch to believe they are wrong.

[euphemia]

Tell it to the kids shot in their beds by drive-by gangbangers.

Another thing that just cracks me up: The aggressive 18 yo male who attacks a police officer is a *teenager.* The 18 yo college student who is raped on campus is a *woman.*

Just goes to show you spin is everything.

[Dr.3D]

The stupid, it hurts. Somebody was shot..., hey, I know! Let's loot something!
Some will jump on any excuse to be a thug.

[JK/SEA]

And why is it the assumption is always that the police are wrong?

i know some people hate police and think they are always wrong. That is just a huge stretch of logic.


hate the police as a whole, or hate the police on an individual basis?...making this a personal issue seems to be a problem for you.

[JK/SEA]

Tell it to the kids shot in their beds by drive-by gangbangers.

Another thing that just cracks me up: The aggressive 18 yo male who attacks a police officer is a *teenager.* The 18 yo college student who is raped on campus is a *woman.*

Just goes to show you spin is everything.


take your blinders off. You're starting to piss me off with your obvious hatred for the Constitution and people who aren't in the blue line circle jerk.

[CaptainAmerica]

i know the flashlight technique, Ive been pulled over and a light shined in my eyes while a cop attempted to interrogate me. First I asked the officer what the purpose of my bocycle being stopped was...next the officer told me my bicycle had no lights, next he asked if Iw as nervous as he flickered his maglite in my eyes , next he asked "do you have any illegal substances or weapons on you, I shut him down by saying it wa cold weather I didnt have a jacket and I did not consent to illegal search and seizures etc etc. The police are trained to escalate a situation, they usually look for one where there is no situation. It is not illegal in arizona to conceal without permit, it is not illegal to open carry ...so the cop who pulled me over was an idiot. In missouri the law is probably different, but if I was a pedestrian Id be stupid not to be armed, even if it was illegal...so perhaps the deceased did have a gun....did he point it?did he get asked "do you have an illegal weapon on you? ...and did the officer have a reason to stop him and shin a flashlight on them? Procedures, motives, do matter

[AuH20]

And why is it the assumption is always that the police are wrong?

i know some people hate police and think they are always wrong. That is just a huge stretch of logic.

I think you bring up a valid point. The world is a sick place. The police certainly deserve much of the flack they get but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that malice will leave with their departure.

[sparebulb]

i know the flashlight technique, Ive been pulled over and a light shined in my eyes while a cop attempted to interrogate me. First I asked the officer what the purpose of my bocycle being stopped was...next the officer told me my bicycle had no lights, next he asked if Iw as nervous as he flickered his maglite in my eyes , next he asked "do you have any illegal substances or weapons on you, I shut him down by saying it wa cold weather I didnt have a jacket and I did not consent to illegal search and seizures etc etc. The police are trained to escalate a situation, they usually look for one where there is no situation. It is not illegal in arizona to conceal without permit, it is not illegal to open carry ...so the cop who pulled me over was an idiot. In missouri the law is probably different, but if I was a pedestrian Id be stupid not to be armed, even if it was illegal...so perhaps the deceased did have a gun....did he point it?did he get asked "do you have an illegal weapon on you? ...and did the officer have a reason to stop him and shin a flashlight on them? Procedures, motives, do matter

Open carry is legal in Missouri without permit.

For all we know, this was summary execution for open carry. If, in fact, he was carrying anything more lethal than a canole.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/New-state-law-prevents-any-Missouri-city-from-banning-open-carry-282092131.html


New state law prevents any Missouri city from banning open carry

by Adam McDonald / KMOV.com staff and Matt Sczesny / News 4

KMOV.com

Posted on November 9, 2014 at 9:22 PM


(KMOV.com) – A new state law in Missouri is now preventing any city in the state from banning open carry.

“We had no choice in the matter,” said Webster Groves Mayor Gerri Welch. “We must comply with state law, and all of us as municipalities are facing this.” Welch says Webster Groves made the change last month, rescinding the city’s law against open carry.

The state law changed in September when Republicans in the House and Senate overrode Governor Jay Nixon’s veto of a sweeping gun bill that not only voids local laws against open carry, but also lowers the age for a concealed permit to 19.

Shortly after the override, gun rights supporters tested the law in a peaceful march in St. Louis with their weapons. However, local leaders worry this change will be anything but peaceful in a part of Missouri that they say is a world away from rural counties and not suited for open carry.


Read more: http://www.kmov.com/news/local/New-state-law-prevents-any-Missouri-city-from-banning-open-carry-282092131.html#ixzz3MpxKgLV6

[navy-vet]

Some will jump on any excuse to be a thug.
They probably see it as a window of opportunity. Remember, we aren't talking about rocket scientists here.

[fisharmor]

And why is it the assumption is always that the police are wrong?

i know some people hate police and think they are always wrong. That is just a huge stretch of logic.

They are wrong because they exist.
They have chosen a job which is is literally defined as pushing people around and punishing them before they have really done anything wrong.
That's what the job has been since the 1840s. Go out and make trouble among the populace.

The huge stretch of logic isn't that police are always wrong. Once you examine the faintest bit of historical evidence, the stretch of logic is assuming that it could ever be any different.
It certainly never was before, and expecting it to be now is ridiculous.

[Origanalist]

They probably see it as a window of opportunity. Remember, we aren't talking about rocket scientists here.

That just put the very strange image of rocket scientist looting into my head. A bunch of people in white lab coats and thick glasses running in and out of a radio shack......

[navy-vet]

Open carry is legal in Missouri without permit.

For all we know, this was summary execution for open carry. If, in fact, he was carrying anything more lethal than a canole.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/New-state-law-prevents-any-Missouri-city-from-banning-open-carry-282092131.html


New state law prevents any Missouri city from banning open carry

by Adam McDonald / KMOV.com staff and Matt Sczesny / News 4

KMOV.com

Posted on November 9, 2014 at 9:22 PM


(KMOV.com) – A new state law in Missouri is now preventing any city in the state from banning open carry.

“We had no choice in the matter,” said Webster Groves Mayor Gerri Welch. “We must comply with state law, and all of us as municipalities are facing this.” Welch says Webster Groves made the change last month, rescinding the city’s law against open carry.

The state law changed in September when Republicans in the House and Senate overrode Governor Jay Nixon’s veto of a sweeping gun bill that not only voids local laws against open carry, but also lowers the age for a concealed permit to 19.

Shortly after the override, gun rights supporters tested the law in a peaceful march in St. Louis with their weapons. However, local leaders worry this change will be anything but peaceful in a part of Missouri that they say is a world away from rural counties and not suited for open carry.


Read more: http://www.kmov.com/news/local/New-state-law-prevents-any-Missouri-city-from-banning-open-carry-282092131.html#ixzz3MpxKgLV6
Open carry of a handgun in NC means it is in plain view in a holster or maybe wait band. If one withdraws a gun from either the holster or the waistband in the presence of a cop, they better be prepared to use it or get them selves shot. Right or wrong that's the way it is.

[navy-vet]

Cops aren't gonna wait for you to take the first shot...

[sparebulb]

Cops aren't gonna wait for you to take the first shot...

None of us know what really happened at this point.

However, it does not seem logical that a would-be cop killer would wait for the cop to take the first shot. After all, the well-worn story is that the perp displayed a gun with intent to shoot and the cop pulled a Marshal Dillon on him in a quick draw.

I don't believe that scenario plays out as often as we are told that it does.

[Dr.3D]

That just put the very strange image of rocket scientist looting into my head. A bunch of people in white lab coats and thick glasses running in and out of a radio shack......
Yeah, walking out with armloads of cell phones. They should call that place, "Cell Shack" instead of Radio Shack.

[Origanalist]

Yeah, walking out with armloads of cell phones. They should call that place, "Cell Shack" instead of Radio Shack.

I know it's not like it used to be, it used to be a place to go to get parts for electronic equipment and such. now it's just another doodad store.

[navy-vet]

None of us know what really happened at this point.

However, it does not seem logical that a would-be cop killer would wait for the cop to take the first shot. After all, the well-worn story is that the perp displayed a gun with intent to shoot and the cop pulled a Marshal Dillon on him in a quick draw.

I don't believe that scenario plays out as often as we are told that it does.
I agree with that. This time it's on camera and I just heard the cop was responding to an armed robbery at that location and the boy had a lot of cash on him along with the 9mm....The boys mom said that he was going to go down to the job mart....
Too bad the store clerk didn't kill the robber, who ever it was.

[navy-vet]

I know it's not like it used to be, it used to be a place to go to get parts for electronic equipment and such. now it's just another doodad store.
Yeah, the Radio Shack always sucked IMO....I used to buy lot of the components I needed for my projects at Lafayette Electronics instead of the shack...till they went out of biz :(

[navy-vet]

We had a convenience store robbed here a few years ago. The attendant was in a bullet proof enclosure and the robber shot the glass a few times and one of the rounds deflected and hit the attendants wife in the eye who was sitting in a booth nearby. She was sitting there with a trickle of blood running down her cheek, eyes wide open. It was surreal....probably never new what hit her.
The robber took off in a caddy and made it up the road about twenty miles till they got him in Siler City....he is in Central Prison in Raleigh

[navy-vet]

And a few years before that, we had a Pantry robbery where the robber ushered the elderly clerk to the back room and raped her and cut her throat. The cop walked in and the guy had his head up her skirt...come to find out, he had raped another elderly lady and cut her throat too, in an apartment below his. The cop said that he came close to shooting the robber but held back.
They tore that Pantry down soon after that, a lot of folks here had a lot of respect for the Pantry lady, her name was Hazel, and she was really nice. The guy is in Raleigh sitting on death row.

[PRB]

being armed isn't a crime, why don't police understand this?

[fisharmor]

And a few years before that, we had a Pantry robbery where the robber ushered the elderly clerk to the back room and raped her and cut her throat. The cop walked in and the guy had his head up her skirt...come to find out, he had raped another elderly lady and cut her throat too, in an apartment below his. The cop said that he came close to shooting the robber but held back.
They tore that Pantry down soon after that, a lot of folks here had a lot of respect for the Pantry lady, her name was Hazel, and she was really nice. The guy is in Raleigh sitting on death row.

We've had over 170 years of forming public policy on anecdotes. I'm ready to try something based on hard evidence. That evidence is finally starting to get out, now that the cops' bosses no longer have a monopoly on the dissemination of information.

That evidence directly contradicts your anecdote.

But let's take your unsubstantiated tale at face value. The point of it seems to be that we should be happy that this nameless cop did his fucking job.

So, if I take a second to pay attention to what people think I should be doing, and actually do it, do I get to have people on internet fora praising me for it?

[navy-vet]

[QUOTE=PRB;5738140]being armed isn't a crime, why don't police understand this?[/QUOTE


I believe that some of them do and simply don't care. All of them I bet, value their life more than they do our rights and aren't willing to give us the benefit of a doubt...

I believe that the feds are encouraging the hiring of vets in law enforcement too. In fact, I know that NC has put vets above other applicants for State and County positions for the last thirty or more years.
A lot of these soldiers are coming from patrolling the streets of towns in Iraq and Afghanistan, to towns here in the States with the same mindset. And that's not good for us mundanes IMO. Also, what with the armament and gear they are getting here, they are probably feeling right at home....

[sparebulb]

This time it's on camera and I just heard the cop was responding to an armed robbery at that location and the boy had a lot of cash on him along with the 9mm....The boys mom said that he was going to go down to the job mart....
Too bad the store clerk didn't kill the robber, who ever it was.

It makes a whole lot more sense if the cop was responding to an armed robbery. But what a retard for hanging out at the alleged scene of his crime. It doesn't make sense yet.

This is what gets me about the cops. They probably know all of the simple facts of the case within minutes, but they withhold information to the point that it really looks like they are covering up a misdeed on their part.

I agree with you completely that this would be a lot better if this was a legitimate private party use of force.

[euphemia]

Given the way people act, I don't blame them for not disclosing the facts of the case to the general public.

[Origanalist]

Given the way people act, I don't blame them for not disclosing the facts of the case to the general public.

Lol! Is there anything you would blame them for?

[JK/SEA]

Lol! Is there anything you would blame them for?

good luck getting an answer.

[sparebulb]

Given the way people act, I don't blame them for not disclosing the facts of the case to the general public.

You appear to be more comfortable with a more authoritative and opaque form of government.

You are not alone.

Most m'ricans share your view.

[moostraks]

Tell it to the kids shot in their beds by drive-by gangbangers.

Another thing that just cracks me up: The aggressive 18 yo male who attacks a police officer is a *teenager.* The 18 yo college student who is raped on campus is a *woman.*

Just goes to show you spin is everything.
Like these gang bangers?

7 year-old girl shot in head during no-knock police raid on wrong home
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/aiyana-stanley-jones-raid/
Another thing that cracks you up? So what was the first thing that "cracks" you "up" about this story?

[euphemia]

We are a constitutional republic and we are governed by the rule of law. Given that I am by nature a by-the-book kind of person, I would take my chances with the police rather than some anarchist who thinks his rights supercede everyone else's.

[sparebulb]

Given that I am by nature a by-the-book kind of person, I would take my chances with the police rather than some anarchist who thinks his rights supercede everyone else's.

BULLSHIT

YOU commit felonies EVERY day, whether you know it or not.

Because you haven't reported your crimes, you don't respect our "law".

Therefore,

YOU are an anarchist.

[Occam's Banana]

That just put the very strange image of rocket scientist looting into my head. A bunch of people in white lab coats and thick glasses running in and out of a radio shack......

Douglas Adams beat you to it ...


"Hold it!"

A megaphone barked from a taxi that screeched to a halt on the edge of the milling crowd.

"There has been," barked the megaphone, "a major scientific break-in! Through. Breakthrough," it corrected itself. The door flew open and a small man from somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse leapt out wearing a white coat.

"Hold it!" he shouted again, and this time brandished a short squat black rod with lights on it. The lights winked briefly, the ramp paused in its ascent, and then in obedience to the signals from the Thumb (which half the electronic engineers in the Galaxy are constantly trying to find fresh ways of jamming, while the other half are constantly trying to find fresh ways of jamming the jamming signals), slowly ground its way downward again.

Ford Prefect grabbed his megaphone from out of the taxi and started bawling at the crowd through it.

"Make way," he shouted, "make way, please, this is a major scientific breakthrough! You and you, get the equipment from the taxi."

Completely at random he pointed at Arthur and Fenchurch, who wrestled their way back out of the crowd and clustered urgently round the taxi.

"All right, I want you to clear a passage, please, for some important pieces of scientific equipment," boomed Ford. "Just everybody keep calm. It's all under control, there's nothing to see. It is merely a major scientific breakthrough. Keep calm now. Important scientific equipment. Clear the way."

Hungry for new excitement, delighted at this sudden reprieve from disappointment, the crowd enthusiastically fell back and started to open up.

Arthur was a little surprised to see what was printed on the boxes of important scientific equipment in the back of the taxi.

"Hang your coat over them," he muttered to Fenchurch as he heaved them out to her. Hurriedly, he maneuvered out the large supermarket cart that was also jammed against the back seat. It clattered to the ground, and together they loaded the boxes into it.

"Clear a path, please," shouted Ford again. "Everything's under proper scientific control."

"He said you'd pay," said the taxi driver to Arthur, who dug out some notes and paid him. There was the distant sound of police sirens.

"Move along there," shouted Ford, "and no one will get hurt."

The crowd surged and closed behind them again, as frantically they pushed and hauled the rattling supermarket cart through the rubble toward the ramp.

"It's all right," Ford continued to bellow. "There's nothing to see, it's all over. None of this is actually happening."

"Clear the way, please," boomed a police megaphone from the back of the crowd. "There's been a break-in, clear the way."

"Breakthrough," yelled Ford in competition. "A scientific breakthrough."

"This is the police! Clear the way!"

"Scientific equipment! Clear the way!"

"Police! Let us through!"

"Walkmen!" yelled Ford, and pulled half a dozen miniature tape players from his pockets and tossed them into the crowd. The resulting seconds of utter confusion allowed them to get the supermarket cart to the edge of the ramp, and to haul it up onto the lip of it.

"Hold tight," muttered Ford, and released a button on his Electronic Thumb. Beneath them, the huge ramp shuddered and began slowly to heave its way upward.

"OK, kids," he said as the milling crowd dropped away beneath them and they started to lurch their way along the tilting ramp into the bowels of the ship, "looks like we're on our way."

(from So Long and Thanks for All the Fish)

[Occam's Banana]

And why is it literally each time one of these types of stories comes out it is only the police officers that fires multiple shots, yet the perp never-ever fires back ONCE, even when getting the jump on drawing down on the officers?

Officer safety.


Cops aren't gonna wait for you to take the first shot...

So why should anyone wait for cops to take the first shot ... ?

[Origanalist]

We are a constitutional republic and we are governed by the rule of law. Given that I am by nature a by-the-book kind of person, I would take my chances with the police rather than some anarchist who thinks his rights supercede everyone else's.

I understand. You like your government secretive and authoritarian.

[Weston White]

Tell it to the kids shot in their beds by drive-by gangbangers.

Oh do you mean like baby Bou Bou or Aiyana Jones? Do you really want to go there?

[JK/SEA]

Oh do you mean like baby Bou Bou or Aiyana Jones? Do you really want to go there?

Tobismom goes by the book, so therefore cops blowing up children is justified in her world.