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View Full Version : Contacting Bydlak about moneybomb




akovacs
12-03-2007, 02:06 PM
Has Trevor contacted Bydlak to coordinate campaign emails? Bydlak's last two emails did not coordinate with us. If he could hold off for a week before the moneybomb and then release an email the same day....

I just don't want to see him send out an email the day before or something and lower the impact than what would otherwise happen.

mport1
12-03-2007, 02:07 PM
Agreed. We need the campaign to send out an email (preferably a message from Ron Paul). Additionally they should schedule a few big fundraising events on that day to boost the total even more.

literatim
12-03-2007, 02:07 PM
That is against FEC regulations.

mport1
12-03-2007, 02:08 PM
That is against FEC regulations.

Why?

kylejack
12-03-2007, 02:12 PM
More powerful media coup if they can say again "we had nothing to do with this".

PatriotOne
12-03-2007, 02:13 PM
That is against FEC regulations.

I'd like to see the FEC rule also. I would love to see an email sent out about this from HQ if at all possible myself.

Lord Xar
12-03-2007, 02:13 PM
Why?

THERE CAN BE NO association between HQ and grassroots. There are laws in place that prevent such association else it could be construed as a campaign activity.

For instance, if you were gonna run a 10K ad in some newspaper on your own.... HQ has no association or understanding of that.. BUT, if HQ knows about your ad buy and directly gives opinion etc.., THEN it is now seen as a HQ sanctioned item and thus prone to FEC laws...

There can be no direct association.

Also, "what" is there to coordinate? The date is the date, is the date. It is set, there is nothing to coordinate because we don't know how much its gonna be. And it is suicide to speculate. That is why HQ fundraising needs to push forward on its own.

The grassroots needs to push forward as it did on the 5th.. notifying the Myspace members, facebook members, buying facebooks ads etc... I haven't seen much grassroots promotion on this as compared to the 5th money raiser though.

PatriotOne
12-03-2007, 02:14 PM
More powerful media coup if they can say again "we had nothing to do with this".

I don't see it much different than RP promoting/mentioning it in his interviews myself.

RPinSEAZ
12-03-2007, 02:16 PM
THERE CAN BE NO association between HQ and grassroots. There are laws in place that prevent such association else it could be construed as a campaign activity.

For instance, if you were gonna run a 10K ad in some newspaper on your own.... HQ has no association or understanding of that.. BUT, if HQ knows about your ad buy and directly gives opinion etc.., THEN it is now seen as a HQ sanctioned item and thus prone to FEC laws...

There can be no direct association.

Also, "what" is there to coordinate? The date is the date, is the date. It is set, there is nothing to coordinate because we don't know how much its gonna be. And it is suicide to speculate. That is why HQ fundraising needs to push forward on its own.

This only applies if you were planning to do something that would violate FEC rules. Fundraising drives do not violate any rules assuming that nobody donates more than $2300 per person. Please don't muddy the waters with information that you're unsure of.

hillertexas
12-03-2007, 02:16 PM
THERE CAN BE NO association between HQ and grassroots. There are laws in place that prevent such association else it could be construed as a campaign activity.

For instance, if you were gonna run a 10K ad in some newspaper on your own.... HQ has no association or understanding of that.. BUT, if HQ knows about your ad buy and directly gives opinion etc.., THEN it is now seen as a HQ sanctioned item and thus prone to FEC laws...

There can be no direct association.

Also, "what" is there to coordinate? The date is the date, is the date. It is set, there is nothing to coordinate because we don't know how much its gonna be. And it is suicide to speculate. That is why HQ fundraising needs to push forward on its own.

+1
Remember the Hillary Senate race Gala (the one that Cher performed at) where she got heat because she allegedly not only knew about details of this gala but was involved.

I don't think HQ can be involved in grassroots at all...I will try and find the court case about the Hillary thing

PatriotOne
12-03-2007, 02:16 PM
[QUOTE=Lord Xar;520880]THERE CAN BE NO association between HQ and grassroots. There are laws in place that prevent such association else it could be construed as a campaign activity.
QUOTE]

I'd still like to see how they define "association" in their rules if you know what rule it is.

akovacs
12-03-2007, 02:17 PM
OK, fine, it doesn't need to be "coordinated". Bydlak just seems completely oblivious to what we're doing and seems to send out emails at the wrong times. Just a heads-up on our part directly to him so he'll take the hint and send out the email at the proper time.

Although the more I think about this: If he sends out an email a day or so before the moneybomb, the non-moneybomb will donate. Then two days later the moneybomb picks up, Ron sends out another email... do you think the same people would donate again such a short time later?

bolidew
12-03-2007, 02:17 PM
Come on guys, Bydlak is NOT stupid as some of you may think!
He work WITH us in a way best for RP!!

RPinSEAZ
12-03-2007, 02:19 PM
I don't think HQ can be involved in grassroots at all...I will try and find the court case about the Hillary thing

Not true.

JustBcuz
12-03-2007, 02:20 PM
Dr. Paul has dropped the date December 16th a couple of times, but has been careful about how he's done it.

After todays phone call, I'm beginning to think the campaign is looking for our guidance, but has to be very cautious about how they do so.

Lord Xar
12-03-2007, 02:23 PM
I'd sill like to see how they define "association" in their rules if you know what rule it is.

Why are you pressing this? THERE CAN BE NO ASSOCIATION. Do you want "legal sitings?" I am not sure what you are looking for. This is a known quantity.

I mean what are you suggesting, HQ send out a fundraising email with the teaparty07 in there?

Association means, imho, interacting with any grassroots endeavor in any way that has the possibility of affecting a vote or giving access to something that would otherwise be unavailable to the grassroots.

Now, HQ "could" get involved, but then at that point it would no longer be a grassroots endeavor but an official campaign promotion. There are some things to be weighed here. Is it better to NOT be associated? Does that lend more credence to real support?

I am saying that IF HQ gets involved, it is a HQ endeavor - no longer grassroots. So one has to decide what is best for the promotion.

RPinSEAZ
12-03-2007, 02:24 PM
Each person can only officially donate $x,xxx amount to the campaign. If HQ becomes involved in the planning or provides guidance for an event or advertisement, that event or advertisement becomes "official". HQ can become involved in the Tea Party all they want because no one person is giving more than $2300.

Now lets say Joe Schmoe ponied up $50k to host a fundraiser for Ron Paul without the help of a PAC and did it with campaign HQ guidance. That would become an "official" event and would violate FEC rules. Because he has essentially just donated $50k to the campaign.

davidhperry
12-03-2007, 02:24 PM
Dr. Paul has dropped the date December 16th a couple of times, but has been careful about how he's done it.

After todays phone call, I'm beginning to think the campaign is looking for our guidance, but has to be very cautious about how they do so.

Interesting - what do you mean by that? Please elaborate.

Syren123
12-03-2007, 02:25 PM
How about lightening up on Jonathan Bydlak. He acts on instructions so calling him oblivious and an idiot is way out of line and needlessly rude. He works extremely hard, puts up with astronomical amounts of pushy advice and criticism, and is patient and respectful to even the most callous loudmouth. Give him a break.

Do what you do and let him do what he does.

McDermit
12-03-2007, 02:26 PM
Bydlak knowns about the bomb already. He will likely send out an "OMG!!! LOOK HOW MUCH WE RAISED!!! HOW HIGH CAN WE GO? PLZ DONATE NOW!" email at some point during the day, but as for actually promoting the event, no can do.

WilliamC
12-03-2007, 02:27 PM
Greetings All,

Let the campaign do their fundraising as they see fit, and let the grassroots do our fundraising as we see fit. I don't see the conflict. Donate how much you can, when you can.

William C Colley

hillertexas
12-03-2007, 02:28 PM
Hillary Clinton vs Peter Paul
http://www.hillcap.org/default.php?page_id=2
Sen. Clinton's actions as shown violated the following U.S. Statutes:


2 U.S.C. Sec 441a (a)(7)(B)(I) provides:
Expenditures made by any person in cooperation, consultation, or concert, with, or at the request or suggestion of, a candidate, his authorized political committees, or their agents, shall be considered to be a contribution to such candidate. (Therefore Peter Paul's expenditures cannot be deemed to be a "soft money" contribution)

(f) No candidate shall knowingly accept any contribution in violation of the provisions of this section...

(a)(1)(A) No person shall make contributions... to any candidate with respect to any election for Federal office which, in the aggregate, exceed $2,000.

2 U.S.C. Sec 437g(d)(1)(A)(I) provides:

Any person who knowingly and willfully commits a violation of any provision of this act which involves the making, receiving, or reporting of any contribution, donation, or expenditure (I) aggregating $25,000 or more during a calendar year shall be fined under Title 18, or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both...

PatriotOne
12-03-2007, 02:34 PM
Why are you pressing this? THERE CAN BE NO ASSOCIATION. Do you want "legal sitings?" I am not sure what you are looking for. This is a known quantity.

I mean what are you suggesting, HQ send out a fundraising email with the teaparty07 in there?

Association means, imho, interacting with any grassroots endeavor in any way that has the possibility of affecting a vote or giving access to something that would otherwise be unavailable to the grassroots.

Now, HQ "could" get involved, but then at that point it would no longer be a grassroots endeavor but an official campaign promotion. There are some things to be weighed here. Is it better to NOT be associated? Does that lend more credence to real support?

I am saying that IF HQ gets involved, it is a HQ endeavor - no longer grassroots. So one has to decide what is best for the promotion.

"Association" can mean a lot of things and I assume it is spelled out in the regs. We "associate" with the campaign all the time through emails, phone calls, speaking with him at rallies, etc. What does "association" mean when they are speaking of fundraisers?

And frankly, I am not too worried whether it will be viewed as a grassroot effort or a HQ effort. The bottom line is how much money got donated, not how it got there IMO. The media got it (Nov. 5th money bomb) wrong most of the time anyways.

McDermit
12-03-2007, 02:35 PM
OK, fine, it doesn't need to be "coordinated". Bydlak just seems completely oblivious to what we're doing and seems to send out emails at the wrong times. Just a heads-up on our part directly to him so he'll take the hint and send out the email at the proper time.

Although the more I think about this: If he sends out an email a day or so before the moneybomb, the non-moneybomb will donate. Then two days later the moneybomb picks up, Ron sends out another email... do you think the same people would donate again such a short time later?

Yeah, he doesn't want to wait for the money bombs. He wants everyone to donate now. Today, not in two days. Today, not in a week. Right this second.

Chalk it up to his lack of experience combined with the fact that this is a completely new concept and entirely different type of campaign than anyone in politics is used. He doesn't have his own prior experience to fall back on or reference, and he doesn't have any other campaign to study either. Usually, you look at how other campaigns have made things work... and learn from them while incorporating your own ideas and experiences. He should be learning by now though, so hopefully we'll see something different as the 16th nears. If not... :rolleyes:

JustBcuz
12-03-2007, 02:40 PM
Interesting - what do you mean by that? Please elaborate.

Dr Paul dropped the date in the debate, but never said TeaParty.

I think he dropped the date when he talked to Blitzer, but never said TeaParty.
(If it wasn't Wolf, it was some other interview)

He's never mentioned an organizer's name or the event's name...just things like "They've got another one planned on Dec. 16th."

After that one Bydlak (sp?) email there was a great uproar around here, and much criticism. After this uproar, we got another email, but this one was the day before 'Rudy'sReadingList.'

Now obviously, there has to be a disconnect between grassroots & the official campaign. But the campaign is watching us. I get the feel they are asking us, very discretely, "What do you need?" & "How can we help?"

Now we get this Carol Paul phone call today. I was hoping it was an auto-dialer, but I see pretty much everyone here is getting the call. That call's gotta be coming from the donor list; there's really no other way they got my number. My registration change was done in the last two months...plus, my number is a work cell phone, not a listed land line. Why would RP send ME that call? I'm registered as a volunteer, I've donated, I know all this already. It seems to me they either want feedback, or they're testing their system.

In Nevada, I need those phone calls to hit auto-dialers. Not registered voters; random numbers. I need that for the next 2 weeks. That will make my precinct walking easier. After two weeks it'll be time to hit registered Republicans, but not yet.

P.S. Hire some you-tubers to do the ad spots. The message is 'something different.' so the ad spots should be 'something different.' The same played out campaign ad of the last 35 years will be ignored, and buired beneath Guiliani & Romney's crap.

RPinSEAZ
12-03-2007, 02:40 PM
"Association" can mean a lot of things and I assume it is spelled out in the regs. We "associate" with the campaign all the time through emails, phone calls, speaking with him at rallies, etc. What does "association" mean when they are speaking of fundraisers?

And frankly, I am not too worried whether it will be viewed as a grassroot effort or a HQ effort. The bottom line is how much money got donated, not how it got there IMO. The media got it (Nov. 5th money bomb) wrong most of the time anyways.



It means that the campaign has somehow helped provide guidance for or asked for the fundraiser to happen. Even if they did however, nobody involved is giving over the official $2300 amount anyways so it's irrelevant.

The only way it could possibly be a problem is if Trevor already donated the maximum $2300 because his webhosting costs would become an "official" contribution if the campaign helped direct it or asked for the fundraiser.

akovacs
12-03-2007, 02:42 PM
Yeah, he doesn't want to wait for the money bombs. He wants everyone to donate now. Today, not in two days. Today, not in a week. Right this second.

I did not say to not send out anything for the next two weeks. I meant for a short while before the 16th. It doesn't even have to be a week. Just from say, 10th to 15th don't ask for money, then send a good one on the 16th. It's just so our impact will be larger, that's all. This is the last big push we have and I want to throw everything we have behind it.

JustBcuz
12-03-2007, 02:46 PM
One other thing:

Campaigns beg for money. That's what they do. They'll beg for money today, tomorrow, and the day after that.

There will never be enough money, and it will never get there in time.

Get used to it.

And if you've pledged to the TeaParty, HONOR YOUR PLEDGE FIRST.

just MHO.

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 02:54 PM
If you think about it, the letters that come from HQ are really aimed at all the OTHER people on the mailing list, not the ones who are in the know from the Internet, but the ones that get all their news from the MSM.

I think we over-reacted to the first email from HQ and did the Rudys Reading List contrary to HQ expectations. They know that TeaParty is coming, and they've probably got as good a guess as we do of what it will raise. I think the HQ letter was aimed at the MSM contributors, expecting that we would be holding our contributions to the Tea Party. There may have even been some grinding of teeth at us, with people in the HQ saying under their breath, "NO! We'll get the funds we need elsewhere for a while; you guys hold on to your cash to make TeaParty bigger!" Not saying that's the case, but they CAN'T TELL US what to do, so they have to build what we're doing into their expectations.

They also can't just say in the HQ letters that the Internet folks should hold our cash, or that they need it now. We have to try to guess, but my guess is they're smart, and those letters are aimed at the MSM-only folks.

We need to realize from what Dr. Paul says that HQ knows we're here, and knows what we're planning. Don't panic at letters from HQ, they're hoping we understand this.

mport1
12-03-2007, 04:23 PM
More powerful media coup if they can say again "we had nothing to do with this".

I'd rather see an extra million dollars or so and them say that they largely had nothing to do with it.

akovacs
12-03-2007, 04:32 PM
The campaign sent out emails that day asking to help them set records. This is no different. They still don't have anything to do with it. It's just so the people who don't know about tea party don't inadvertently donate a few days before and therefore not contribute on the 16th.

I dunno, the impact probably wouldn't be much, but we need a huge number that day and every little bit helps.