Crime Statistics Nobody Wants to Talk About...

[muh_roads]

I despise the police as much as the next person, but these statistics might explain why people are more apprehensive.

Jump to about 3 minutes if the link doesn't take you there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGTUcS-yQtQ#t=184


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGTUcS-yQtQ#t=184

Cliffs notes: Black on White crime happens 200x greater than White on Black crime due to population differences.

[presence]

Its all in what you call "crime".


Street criminals stole $15.3 billion in 1993, but white collar-criminals embezzled $200 billion. Street criminals murdered 23,271 people that year, but the decisions of profit-driven corporations murdered at least 318,368(through pollution, consumer and worker safety violations, etc.)

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-poorcrime.htm


There's also a wealth disparity of 8:1 between black and white; I suspect that accounts for some difference in legal defense spending.

After all... its not a crime if you liaryer your way out of it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/08/wealth-urban.png&w=1484

[Henry Rogue]

The thing i find so frustrating is the race narrative on both sides. It overshadows the existence of blue crime.

[muh_roads]

Its all in what you call "crime".



http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-poorcrime.htm


There's also a wealth disparity of 8:1 between black and white; I suspect that accounts for some difference in legal defense spending.

After all... its not a crime if you liaryer your way out of it.



The statistics in the video are related to violent crimes only. Not all crime.

[Ronin Truth]

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fbi+crime+statistics+by+race

[acptulsa]

The thing i find so frustrating is the race narrative on both sides. It overshadows the existence of blue crime.

This. And if you factor in 'blue'-on-black crime, what happens to that '200 times more likely' figure?


https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fbi+crime+statistics+by+race

Why are you so obsessed with freaking google? Did it ever occur to you that some of us would rather have our eye teeth pulled by tying strings to them and tying them to a tree across the interstate than use that particular damned search engine?

[muh_roads]

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fbi+crime+statistics+by+race

This is where the information is being pulled from...

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245


Why are you so obsessed with freaking google? Did it ever occur to you that some of us would rather have our eye teeth pulled by tying strings to them and tying them to a tree across the interstate than use that particular damned search engine?

VPN

[presence]

The statistics in the video are related to violent crimes only. Not all crime.

That doesn't change the fact that whites have 8X the wealth to liaryer up.

You can't tell me that two men (one poor black, one rich white) each facing charges for a similar sexual assault on a white woman are going to see the same verdict.

Black man with public defense = Felony Sexual Battery, 10 years and registered sex offender

(violent crime stats +1 for black men)

White man with white money lawyer = Misdemeanor Lewd and Lacivioius Behavior, 40 hours of community service and some anger management

(violent crime stats +0 for white men)

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56900098.jpg
disclosure: I have no idea who this guy is or what he may have done

[thoughtomator]

Between unequal enforcement, falsification of statistics, economic disparity, and the ability to buy justice, I put little weight on official numbers. Bill Whittle always takes all the official stats at face value, which is why I can't take him seriously.

[muh_roads]

White man with white money lawyer = Misdemeanor Lewd and Lacivioius Behavior, 40 hours of community service and some anger management

Even if there is a margin of error of 50% when reporting White on Black...that still puts blacks at 100x to 1 instead of 200x to 1.

[TheCount]

I despise the police as much as the next person, but these statistics might explain why people are more apprehensive.

And by apprehensive, I presume you mean 'able to summarily execute a black male without risk?'


Or maybe you mean 'collectively, black men commit crimes, therefore their individual actions don't matter, I will treat them as members of the collective.'

[muh_roads]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56900098.jpg


Now we need a meme that says "All White People = Lawyer Money" and that would sound equally as silly.

Their "white money" sure doesn't help keep them out of jail when it comes to meth.

If anyone really thinks whites are getting away with raping and killing, they are watching too much MSNBC.

[Ronin Truth]

Why are you so obsessed with freaking google? Did it ever occur to you that some of us would rather have our eye teeth pulled by tying strings to them and tying them to a tree across the interstate than use that particular damned search engine?

Did it ever occur to you that I just might not give a crap about your search engine preferences?

Use the ones you want or none at all. Who cares? Not me. You don't like mine? OK, ignore them. Non-problem solved.

[AuH20]

The thing i find so frustrating is the race narrative on both sides. It overshadows the existence of blue crime.

As bad as blue crime is, it's pales in comparison to real crime. At least the guys in the uniform you can avoid. Your seemingly pleasant neighbor can plunge a steak knife in your back without you even having the slightest clue.

[AuH20]

Even if there is a margin of error of 50% when reporting White on Black...that still puts blacks at 100x to 1 instead of 200x to 1.

Correct. Yet the excuses will flow. Ultimately, no one wants to take personal responsibility for their actions. That's the American way these days. Is life is more unfair for others? You bet. Do you have control of your actions? Absolutely. If you don't then what makes you any different than the stray canine down the street?

That's the element that's lost in this entire discussion. The whole "I'm hungry so I have to mug my neighbor" holds no water in my eyes. Or "that's a real pretty woman over there, so I'll have my way with her." And I thought some folks practiced the NAP in here.

[acptulsa]

I'm not here to sell people on using google, I'm here to trick people into using google.

Whatever pays the rent, dude.

[AuH20]

Now we need a meme that says "All White People = Lawyer Money" and that would sound equally as silly.

Their "white money" sure doesn't help keep them out of jail when it comes to meth.

If anyone really thinks whites are getting away with raping and killing, they are watching too much MSNBC.

The 1% is the only group that can utilize the court system to their advantage. The other 99% not so much. Color doesn't play much of a factor.

[AuH20]

I think it's more of an issue that most criminals are black as opposed to the false theory that black people are predisposed to crime.

[otherone]

I think it's more of an issue that most criminals are black as opposed to the false theory that black people are predisposed to crime.

Is this issue political?
Can you segue to how this impacts liberty?

[AuH20]

Is this issue political?
Can you segue to how this impacts liberty?

I think there are various politically connected special interests in the country making large sums of money off this particular social phenomenon. Absolutely. I don't think they want the problem solved.

[Henry Rogue]

As bad as blue crime is, it's pales in comparison to real crime. At least the guys in the uniform you can avoid. Your seemingly pleasant neighbor can plunge a steak knife in your back without you even having the slightest clue.

You got it backwards. I could be a sleep in my bed and shot to death by a swat terrorist who got the wrong address. Should i awake before the assault and defend myself, i would be imprisoned if not executed. The same can't be said when confronting a mundane burglar.

[AuH20]

You got it backwards. I could be a sleep in my bed and shot to death by a swat terrorist who got the wrong address. Should i awake before the assault and defend myself, i would be imprisoned if not executed. The same can't be said when confronting a mundane burglar.

There are only 600k full time policeman in the country. We have 2.4 million incarcerated. You do the math. Let's say for fun a third of those 2.4 million are nonviolent offenders. That's still 1.6 million as a numerical factor of the general population. People are living in fantasy land equating real crime with police abuse. Fantasy land. That's not to say that police aren't dangerous in certain scenarios because they are, but there isn't simply as many of them.

[muh_roads]

I think there are various politically connected special interests in the country making large sums of money off this particular social phenomenon. Absolutely. I don't think they want the problem solved.

Well said.

If Obama actually cared about black people, and people in general, he'd pardon all non-violent drug offenders, and if not ending the war on drugs, at least removing cannabis from Schedule I as well.

The guy certainly has no beef with treating the office as a monarchy with his executive orders of defying immigration law and killing Pakistan kids with drones.

[ClydeCoulter]

There are only 600k full time policeman in the country. We have 2.4 million incarcerated. You do the math. Let's say for fun a third of those 2.4 million are nonviolent offenders. That's still 1.6 million as a numerical factor. People are living in fantasy land equating real crime with police abuse. Fantasy land. That's not to say that police aren't dangerous in certain scenarios because they are, but there isn't simply as many of them.

1.6 million do how many crimes a week? And the 600k do how many crimes a week?

[AuH20]

Well said.

If Obama actually cared about black people, and people in general, he'd pardon all non-violent drug offenders, and if not ending the war on drugs, at least removing cannabis from Schedule I.

The guy certainly has no beef with treating the office as a monarchy with his executive orders.

Don't forget the prison industry as well. Do you think they want the black family unit restored? Of course not.

[juleswin]

This is the 2nd time this video has been posted on RPF. The first time, it was from the other race warrior who keep posting race articles on RPF. But the reason is very simple, black people have a higher probably to be poor, white people on the other hand have a higher probability to be rich and poor people have a high probability to be involved in criminal activity like robbery, home invasion etc etc. Put all of that together and a few other minor factors and it isn't that much of a race issue as the OP and the presenter wants us to believe.

He is doing exactly what he is accusing the race baiter of doing.

[acptulsa]

There are only 600k full time policeman in the country. We have 2.4 million incarcerated. You do the math. Let's say for fun a third of those 2.4 million are nonviolent offenders. That's still 1.6 million. People are living in fantasy land equating real crime with police abuse. Fantasy land.

Why? Because of the numbers? Is this a lesser of two evils argument? We should put up with being Baby Bou Boued because the odds it happens to us are less than the odds some idiot in a pickup truck will try to crush our car with us in it?

Never mind that six hundred thousand cops can commit more crime than one and a half million violent offenders just because they never seem to get put in jail for it, but remain not only free but paid to continue to do it. That's not the question I want an answer to. I want to know if We, the People of this Republic are supposed to put up with paying people to violate the very laws they're supposed to be upholding?

[Ronin Truth]

Whatever pays the rent, dude.

It ain't paying me a cent, and never has.

Really nice intellectually dishonest thread phony quote there. Real cute. :p

[muh_roads]

But the reason is very simple, black people have a higher probably to be poor, white people on the other hand have a higher probability to be rich and poor people have a high probability to be involved in criminal activity like robbery, home invasion etc etc. Put all of that together and a few other minor factors and it isn't that much of a race issue as the OP and the presenter wants us to believe.

He is doing exactly what he is accusing the race baiter of doing.

That is pure bullshit. There are far more poor whites in America. And if posting statistics is going to be considered race-baiting with the end goal of wanting everyone to look the other way, then we are in big trouble as a country.

Nobody wants blue crime, but all factors need to be considered.

[AuH20]

Why? Because of the numbers? Is this a lesser of two evils argument? We should put up with being Baby Bou Boued because the odds it happens to us are less than the odds some idiot in a pickup truck will try to crush our car with us in it?

Never mind that six hundred thousand cops can commit more crime than one and a half million violent offenders just because they never seem to get put in jail for it, but remain not only free but paid to continue to do it. That's not the question I want an answer to. I want to know if We, the People of this Republic are supposed to put up with paying people to violate the very laws they're supposed to be upholding?

I don't think we should tolerate any police abuse. It should be a zero tolerance issue. I'm just pointing out that there are far more criminals than police, and any vigilant citizen would be wise to avoid both groups.

[Danke]

This is the 2nd time this video has been posted on RPF. The first time, it was from the other race warrior who keep posting race articles on RPF.

Fuck off, ignoramus.

[Henry Rogue]

There are only 600k full time policeman in the country. We have 2.4 million incarcerated. You do the math. Let's say for fun a third of those 2.4 million are nonviolent offenders. That's still 1.6 million as a numerical factor. People are living in fantasy land equating real crime with police abuse. Fantasy land. That's not to say that police aren't dangerous in certain scenarios because they are, but there isn't simply as many of them.
Fantasy land is believing cops prevent real crime. Gun laws, enforced by those same cops, reduce the risk for mundane criminals.

[AuH20]

Fantasy land is believing cops prevent real crime. Gun laws, enforced by those same cops, reduce the risk for mundane criminals.

Cops do little to prevent real time crime from occurring. But they do act as a deterrent.

[phill4paul]

I don't think we should tolerate any police abuse. It should be a zero tolerance issue. I'm just pointing out that there are far more criminals than police, and any vigilant citizen would be wise to avoid both groups.

You do realize that, even though you have never been arrested, that you are a criminal? That you, at one time or another, have broken a law, whether or not you were aware of that laws existence. So, I wouldn't be so quick to point fingers.

[AuH20]

You do realize that, even though you have never been arrested, that you are a criminal? That you, at one time or another, have broken a law, whether or not you were aware of that laws existence. So, I wouldn't be so quick to point fingers.

But we're talking about violent crime. Not jaywalking.

[Henry Rogue]

Cops do little to prevent real time crime from occurring. But they do act as a deterrent.
They do act as a deterrent, but not to criminals. They act as a deterrent to citizens' ability to protect themselves.

[AuH20]

They do act as a deterrent, but not to criminals. They act as a deterrent to citizens' ability to protect themselves.

That too.

[enhanced_deficit]

White man with white money lawyer = Misdemeanor Lewd and Lacivioius Behavior, 40 hours of community service and some anger management



http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56900098.jpg
disclosure: I have no idea who this guy is or what he may have done

You might be on to something but add "Black woman" to the list too.

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/azz1.jpg


Lawyer representing family of Miriam Carey arrested (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?430954-Lawyer-representing-family-of-Miriam-Carey-arrested&)

[presence]

The 1% is the only group that can utilize the court system to their advantage. The other 99% not so much. Color doesn't play much of a factor.

I expect there's more than the 1% that can "utilize the court system to their advantage". A no frills lawyer for a simple assault is $5,000 to $10,000. Somehow I see a race disparity in the ability to fork over $10,000 to get a felony assault changed to a non-violent misdemeanor plea.

https://www.matrixdirect.com/images/insurance_101/mortgage_insurnace.jpg

http://static.squarespace.com/static/5059ed36c4aa7e7ffcccca6b/t/5201ef86e4b01eae5683f421/1375858584546/20130708_DanielTaylor_005.JPG?format=1000w

[GunnyFreedom]

The statistics in the video are related to violent crimes only. Not all crime.

But if you can afford a high powered lawyer it's no longer a violent crime.

[puppetmaster]

This is the 2nd time this video has been posted on RPF. The first time, it was from the other race warrior who keep posting race articles on RPF. But the reason is very simple, black people have a higher probably to be poor, white people on the other hand have a higher probability to be rich and poor people have a high probability to be involved in criminal activity like robbery, home invasion etc etc. Put all of that together and a few other minor factors and it isn't that much of a race issue as the OP and the presenter wants us to believe.

He is doing exactly what he is accusing the race baiter of doing. it is a personal responsibility issue. Poor, rich, black, white I don't care but stop blaming someone else or some other group for your behavior. You make it sound like being poor is an excuse for criminal behavior.

[Occam's Banana]

You make it sound like being poor is an excuse for criminal behavior.

Being poor is not an excuse for criminal behavior - but it *is* one of the reasons for it.

Just like foreign interventionism is not an excuse for terroristic "blowback" - but it *is* one of the reasons for it.

juleswin didn't make it sound otherwise. In fact, he explicitly said, "... the reason is ..." (not "... what excuses this is ...").

[Tod]

Engaging in violent crime to get what you want is a risky business.....if one is in a position to get what you want by fraud or even better - making rules that work in your favor - only a foolish criminal would pass on the opportunity.

This goes here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjWR4_ekego

[Antischism]

Bill Whittle is an idiot. Not sure why anyone would take his videos seriously, though I'm sure the confirmation bias is strong with some people. This video is no exception, though it does show a prime example of how one can take statistics and completely dissever them from reality. It's like he's purposely trying to cater to a specific segment of America that still holds both blatant and subconscious racism! The man knows his audience, that's for sure.

[tod evans]

a specific segment of America that still holds both blatant and subconscious racism!

I happen to despise people of all races pretty much equally so if anyone tries to single out their race de-jour for favoritism it's their own personal bias.....

[CaptUSA]

You make it sound like being poor is an excuse for criminal behavior.

Being poor limits your options for committing crimes. When you don't have access to steal with lawyers and pens, you use what you have. Violence. When you aren't educated in safer ways to steal, you have to use more rudimentary tools. Force. If you don't have access to roofies to rape, you have to use your might.

Ignoring socio-economic reasons for the types of crimes committed is ignoring reality. The idea that wealthier people have some overall moral superiority is ignorant. Criminal intent is a human trait and it is not restricted to certain classes. If you only look at the means used to achieve those intents, then you are missing a much larger picture.

Now, throw in the fact that there are so many laws that criminalize being poor, and you start people down the path to more crimes. The more you increased their confrontation with the "law", the more you increase their contempt for it. Ask yourself this... When's the last time a wealthy person was arrested for loitering? This is a law designed to remove undesirables. People with means tend to congregate indoors, at places that cost money. People without tend to congregate in public, near places where they visit (Convenience stores, check-cashing facilities...).

These are not "excuses" for behavior. These are explanations for why some people choose to commit their crimes in more primitive ways and why some choose alternatives that aren't enforced as harshly.

[juleswin]

Cliffs notes: Black on White crime happens 200x greater than White on Black crime due to population differences.

I have watched the video in the OP and I think I have already spent a very good amount of time going through it and replying to many of the points. I agree somewhat with what was said but I wholly disagree with the conclusion it is trying to make as it being some race war by black people against white people


That is pure bullshit. There are far more poor whites in America. And if posting statistics is going to be considered race-baiting with the end goal of wanting everyone to look the other way, then we are in big trouble as a country.

Nobody wants blue crime, but all factors need to be considered.

My response you replied to was mainly focusing of the stats in the OP about black on white crimes being 200x that of white on black crimes. I was trying to say is that it has a lot to do with black people being in general poorer than white people. I also said that there are other factors even though I did not mention it like growing up in a single parent household, living in population density areas like big cities etc. I bet if you looked at the poor whites on rich/middle class whites crime stats, it will also be far greater than that of rich whites against poor whites crime rates. It will also increase when you correct for urban vs rural and single parent household vs 2 parent household.

Yes, the posting raw statistics cannot be considered race baiting, but the OP you posted is way more than just raw numbers, the presenters left the viewers with the idea that there is a race war and its with blacks coming after whites. A conclusion which I don't think is very accurate. Also you are correct in saying that all factors needs to be considered. Black people are not the only poor minority group in this country, there is a reason why they have a disproportionate amount of confrontations with the police. Yet another area where we agree, I just disagree with Bill White because I think there are more factors other than skin color that needs to be looked at.

[juleswin]

Fuck off, ignoramus.

Says the fella who never ever posts anything of substance or any original writing longer than a couple sentences. You know your shtick of playing the weird, old man pervert is wearing out. I mean, it was funny the first 21,273 times you did it but at some point, you gonna have to come up with something different.

[AuH20]

I expect there's more than the 1% that can "utilize the court system to their advantage". A no frills lawyer for a simple assault is $5,000 to $10,000. Somehow I see a race disparity in the ability to fork over $10,000 to get a felony assault changed to a non-violent misdemeanor plea.

https://www.matrixdirect.com/images/insurance_101/mortgage_insurnace.jpg

http://static.squarespace.com/static/5059ed36c4aa7e7ffcccca6b/t/5201ef86e4b01eae5683f421/1375858584546/20130708_DanielTaylor_005.JPG?format=1000w

You're familiar with sliding fee programs? Request for a court appointed attorney? Federally funded legal aid? We live in a country where beauticians making less than 30k annually were getting mortgages for 600 thousand dollar homes. So to say that adequate legal representation is restricted for the impoverished is a stretch.

[AuH20]

it is a personal responsibility issue. Poor, rich, black, white I don't care but stop blaming someone else or some other group for your behavior. You make it sound like being poor is an excuse for criminal behavior.

It's as simple as this. If you are educated and possess a modicum of common sense, you're not going to commit a violent crime since you are looking at the long term consequences. Education and common sense (thanks to a destruction of the black family unit and in essence their entire cultural history) is very lacking in the black community. So you're going to have inordinate amount of these incidents occurring over and over again.

Note that the other minority groups with similar lackluster economic backgrounds don't commit crimes at this torrid rate because they have community stability. Forget about money. It's about a state of mind or lack thereof. You could take different peoples with different cultures & move them to an island stripped of all material possessions and the same peoples would rise to the top over and over again.

[moostraks]

You're familiar with sliding fee programs? Request for a court appointed attorney? Federally funded legal aid? We live in a country where beauticians making less than 30k annually were getting mortgages for 600 thousand dollar homes. So to say that adequate legal representation is restricted for the impoverished is a stretch.

Court appointed attorneys are what the state loves to push at people when they find themselves being harassed by government. CPS rubs their hands together with glee when they see them. I never had any luck with a court appointed attorney the few times I needed one. I did, however, notice when you walk in the court with an attorney from oh, say, an office such as Bobby Lee Cook, the they tend not to want to get in your stuff. It is all about the money and whether they are representing you or whether the state is picking up the tab.

[PaulConventionWV]

This. And if you factor in 'blue'-on-black crime, what happens to that '200 times more likely' figure?



Why are you so obsessed with freaking google? Did it ever occur to you that some of us would rather have our eye teeth pulled by tying strings to them and tying them to a tree across the interstate than use that particular damned search engine?

I don't understand why anyone would have such adversity toward a search engine.

[PaulConventionWV]

Even if there is a margin of error of 50% when reporting White on Black...that still puts blacks at 100x to 1 instead of 200x to 1.

It probably is true that blacks commit more crime, but that's not the point. They were forced into this vicious circle of police violence and unfairness in the system, and that keeps them in poverty where they are constantly frustrated and dissatisfied, leading to more crime and more arrests and beatings, and the cycle goes on. The institution in this country is to blame for the epidemic. Even if it's not, though, it is still evil and should be eradicated before crying race war. People who generalize and push people into race classes and try to explain behavior based on race are part of the problem. If the problem is black people, what do you plan to do about it?

IMO, this is how people become white nationalists an white supremacists. They think the black people have destroyed their perfect little white nation that would be devoid of crime without those evil blacks, but the problem is not the race of any particular person. The problem is the unilateral authority that police have and how they abuse it. They are the ONLY problem that needs to be focused on right now. White on black crime is not the issue. Police on black crime is the issue. Police on EVERYBODY crime is the issue.

Let's stop pretending that race is relevant and focus all of our energy on fixing the problem with police because they are the ones getting away with it, not blacks. You can rest assured that the black people who commit crimes are suffering the consequences, but you cannot say the same for police. That is the problem we need to focus on.

Not to mention the fact that police do this to white people, too, and the fact that their behavior is backed up by bogus laws, every single one of which now seems to carry the death sentence.

[PaulConventionWV]

As bad as blue crime is, it's pales in comparison to real crime. At least the guys in the uniform you can avoid. Your seemingly pleasant neighbor can plunge a steak knife in your back without you even having the slightest clue.

Are you kidding me? You can't avoid the guys in uniform. If they spot you, you HAVE to have an encounter with them, which they will no doubt escalate. Real crime has always been around, and it's no more disproportionate now than it has been. The problem is that police can harass you without warning and you have no choice but to get involved with them, and if they commit a crime against you, which is very likely these days, they don't suffer any consequences. The guy who plunges a knife into your back, be they black or white, will probably go to jail for their crimes. A police officer almost never goes to jail for anything, especially, it would seem, murder.

Even if "real" crime is more prevalent than blue crime, blue crime is the bigger problem because the perps are getting away with it, and to me, that is far worse than the idiot who kills someone and gets arrested. It doesn't matter what the police do because they are backed up by all these ridiculous laws and they are not even held responsible when they harass and arrest people for non-crimes.

[AuH20]

It probably is true that blacks commit more crime, but that's not the point. They were forced into this vicious circle of police violence and unfairness in the system, and that keeps them in poverty where they are constantly frustrated and dissatisfied, leading to more crime and more arrests and beatings, and the cycle goes on. The institution in this country is to blame for the epidemic. Even if it's not, though, it is still evil and should be eradicated before crying race war. People who generalize and push people into race classes and try to explain behavior based on race are part of the problem. If the problem is black people, what do you plan to do about it?

IMO, this is how people become white nationalists an white supremacists. They think the black people have destroyed their perfect little white nation that would be devoid of crime without those evil blacks, but the problem is not the race of any particular person. The problem is the unilateral authority that police have and how they abuse it. They are the ONLY problem that needs to be focused on right now. White on black crime is not the issue. Police on black crime is the issue. Police on EVERYBODY crime is the issue.

Let's stop pretending that race is relevant and focus all of our energy on fixing the problem with police because they are the ones getting away with it, not blacks. You can rest assured that the black people who commit crimes are suffering the consequences, but you cannot say the same for police. That is the problem we need to focus on.

Not to mention the fact that police do this to white people, too, and the fact that their behavior is backed up by bogus laws, every single one of which now seems to carry the death sentence.

If you want to conduct an interesting social experiment, talk to a black person from the Caribbean about how they generally feel about American blacks. You would be shocked what comes from out of their mouths. Like I said, these problems we face are 99% cultural. For one, the white power structure destroyed the African American culture with racism and government dependency. And until they get it back, everything else is negligible in terms of causation.

[jmdrake]

That is pure bullshit. There are far more poor whites in America. And if posting statistics is going to be considered race-baiting with the end goal of wanting everyone to look the other way, then we are in big trouble as a country.

Nobody wants blue crime, but all factors need to be considered.

LOL What a hypocrite you are. When it comes to stats that make blacks look bad you are all "per capita". But when it comes to stats going the other way you want to take the aggregate number. Everyone knows that per capita there are far more poor blacks than poor whites. When you control for economics, the differences in crime based on race are not that great. Please read: http://egov.ufsc.br/portal/sites/default/files/anexos/33027-41458-1-PB.pdf

[PaulConventionWV]

Correct. Yet the excuses will flow. Ultimately, no one wants to take personal responsibility for their actions. That's the American way these days. Is life is more unfair for others? You bet. Do you have control of your actions? Absolutely. If you don't then what makes you any different than the stray canine down the street?

That's the element that's lost in this entire discussion. The whole "I'm hungry so I have to mug my neighbor" holds no water in my eyes. Or "that's a real pretty woman over there, so I'll have my way with her." And I thought some folks practiced the NAP in here.

Who are you directing this at? Who's making excuses? I honestly don't care how much of a problem black on white crime is because they don't get away with it. Police do. Go ahead and tell me that's not a problem.

[jmdrake]

But if you can afford a high powered lawyer it's no longer a violent crime.

This! I have seen a prosecutor turn a simple domestic assault into a 40 year felony by calling a pen a "deadly weapon." People who have never been in a courtroom for any extended period of time have no idea of the power of crooked prosecutors.

[PaulConventionWV]

There are only 600k full time policeman in the country. We have 2.4 million incarcerated. You do the math. Let's say for fun a third of those 2.4 million are nonviolent offenders. That's still 1.6 million as a numerical factor of the general population. People are living in fantasy land equating real crime with police abuse. Fantasy land. That's not to say that police aren't dangerous in certain scenarios because they are, but there isn't simply as many of them.

What matters is the proportional likelihood of a person having consequences for their actions. For police, the likelihood is almost zero, whereas for "real" crime, the likelihood is about as good as it's ever going to be. The problem is police and until we fix that problem, I will not entertain any other.

[jmdrake]

If you want to test an interesting social experiment, talk to a black person from the Caribbean about how they generally feel about American blacks. You would be shocked what comes from their mouths.

I do all the time. They're more concerned about white racism than the average black person. Oh, you didn't know that? They didn't tell you that when you did your little "social experiment?" Probably because you're white.



Like I said, these problems we face are 99% cultural. For one, the white man destroyed the African American culture with racism and government dependency. And until they get it back, everything else is negligible in terms of causation.

With this I agree.

[PaulConventionWV]

Cops do little to prevent real time crime from occurring. But they do act as a deterrent.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. There is very little anyone can do to deter crime. The reason law enforcement exists at all is to serve justice to those who commit crimes. That is the only real reason it is needed in any form. The truth is that law enforcement "officers" have become immune to the very laws they enforce, and that is a far larger problem than any demographic statistic on crime. We know these people are getting away with murder and yet we can't stop talking about how bad black people are, statistically. It's just ridiculous. I don't care how much more likely I am to be killed by a black person because at least I know that person will probably face consequences for what they did. Not so much for a police officer.

[presence]

Request for a court appointed attorney?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSuaVMjheNk

[jmdrake]

You're familiar with sliding fee programs? Request for a court appointed attorney? Federally funded legal aid? We live in a country where beauticians making less than 30k annually were getting mortgages for 600 thousand dollar homes. So to say that adequate legal representation is restricted for the impoverished is a stretch.

LOL. You have got to be kidding! Court appointed lawyers are overworked, underpaid, and they don't have the free investigation staff (police) that the prosecutors have. They don't even get free access to Westlaw and Lexis. You are really clueless about the legal system.

[PaulConventionWV]

You're familiar with sliding fee programs? Request for a court appointed attorney? Federally funded legal aid? We live in a country where beauticians making less than 30k annually were getting mortgages for 600 thousand dollar homes. So to say that adequate legal representation is restricted for the impoverished is a stretch.

Wait, you're saying poor people have access to legal representation because the banks are willing to lend them way more money than they can afford to pay back?

I don't follow.

[jmdrake]

Really, here are some "race and crime" statistics that everybody here needs to pay attention to. Why is it that blacks use drugs at the same rate as whites, but are arrested at a much higher rate than whites, when arrested they are convicted at a much higher rate than whites, and once convicted do they receive longer sentences than whites? I didn't learn this from some liberal on MSNBC. I learned this from Ron Paul!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8S8N2OG7sU

Come on AuH2O. With all of that wonderful government legal assistance blacks should end up with similar results right? :rolleyes:

[PaulConventionWV]

It's as simple as this. If you are educated and possess a modicum of common sense, you're not going to commit a violent crime since you are looking at the long term consequences. Education and common sense (thanks to a destruction of the black family unit and in essence their entire cultural history) is very lacking in the black community. So you're going to have inordinate amount of these incidents occurring over and over again.

Note that the other minority groups with similar lackluster economic backgrounds don't commit crimes at this torrid rate because they have community stability. Forget about money. It's about a state of mind or lack thereof. You could take different peoples with different cultures & move them to an island stripped of all material possessions and the same peoples would rise to the top over and over again.

Are you talking about the race hierarchy? Is that really what we've made this discussion into?

[Ender]

Really, here are some "race and crime" statistics that everybody here needs to pay attention to. Why is it that blacks use drugs at the same rate as whites, but are arrested at a much higher rate than whites, when arrested they are convicted at a much higher rate than whites, and once convicted do they receive longer sentences than whites? I didn't learn this from some liberal on MSNBC. I learned this from Ron Paul!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8S8N2OG7sU

Come on AuH2O. With all of that wonderful government legal assistance blacks should end up with similar results right? :rolleyes:

On. The. Nose.

Then, if out of jail, they can't get a job so the WoD is one of the few ways to get some cash- which also increases possible violence.

[Ronin Truth]

LEO's (cop's) job is NOT to prevent crime nor to protect. It is only to ENFORCE LAW.

(Hint: LEO - Law Enforcement Officer)

[AuH20]

Are you talking about the race hierarchy? Is that really what we've made this discussion into?

Race is relatively inconsequential. Culture generally drives prosperity. If you took the whitest of white children, remove from their family unit & completely detached them from their culture, how do you think they would end up? They would probably regress back to a primal state? No?

[jbauer]

This is the 2nd time this video has been posted on RPF. The first time, it was from the other race warrior who keep posting race articles on RPF. But the reason is very simple, black people have a higher probably to be poor, white people on the other hand have a higher probability to be rich and poor people have a high probability to be involved in criminal activity like robbery, home invasion etc etc. Put all of that together and a few other minor factors and it isn't that much of a race issue as the OP and the presenter wants us to believe.

He is doing exactly what he is accusing the race baiter of doing.

There can be some truth to this being a poverty issue. But without statistics of the % of crimes committed by people in poverty vs the general population...broken down by race there really isn't a good way to substantiate what you're saying. 10% of whites live in poverty, 27% of black do. From a pure number standpoint 27.3 million whites live in poverty and 10.5 million blacks live in poverty. But not all impoverished people commit crime nor does all non-impoverished people not commit crime.

[GunnyFreedom]

You're familiar with sliding fee programs? Request for a court appointed attorney? Federally funded legal aid? We live in a country where beauticians making less than 30k annually were getting mortgages for 600 thousand dollar homes. So to say that adequate legal representation is restricted for the impoverished is a stretch.
Court appointeded attorney. You don't really belive any of the tripe you posted above do you? Rich people are notorious skinflints. Why are they going to pay $35,000 for a lawyer when they can just have one for free? -- unless, maybe, there is some kind of difference...... No, is that even possible?

I like you Au, but on this subject it's like you got nothing upstairs at all. :(

[Danke]

Japanese American had their property and businesses stolen from them during WWII. They had to start all over from scratch. What is their crime statistics?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?464476-Hawaii-under-martial-law-was-like-%91military-dictatorship%92-(1941-1944)&highlight=Japanese

[GunnyFreedom]

Japanese American had their property and businesses stolen from them during WWII. They had to start all over from scratch. What is their crime statistics?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?464476-Hawaii-under-martial-law-was-like-%91military-dictatorship%92-(1941-1944)&highlight=Japanese

Japanese largely have a cultural bias to deal with their own. Even if their crime rate were 10x 'normal' (of course I do not believe it is) not much of it would make the statistics.

[GunnyFreedom]

This! I have seen a prosecutor turn a simple domestic assault into a 40 year felony by calling a pen a "deadly weapon." People who have never been in a courtroom for any extended period of time have no idea of the power of crooked prosecutors.

To be honest though, you don't have to have spent a lot of time in a courtroom to know this, the DA's actually openly brag about doing stuff like this. You just have to be paying attention. :p

[Danke]

Japanese largely have a cultural bias to deal with their own. Even if their crime rate were 10x 'normal' (of course I do not believe it is) not much of it would make the statistics.


So it is a cultural thing, this crime stuff. Uh oh, another "race warrior"

[otherone]

Japanese American had their property and businesses stolen from them during WWII. They had to start all over from scratch. What is their crime statistics?


Of the ones who commit crimes, 100%. Those who do not...0%.

seems obvious.

[Danke]

Of the ones who commit crimes, 100%. Those who do not...0%.

seems obvious.

Brilliant.

[GunnyFreedom]

Wait, you're saying poor people have access to legal representation because the banks are willing to lend them way more money than they can afford to pay back?

I don't follow.

Don't feel bad about not being able to follow his reasoning. On this issue he doesn't even seem to have reason at all. :( This nonsense about court appointed attorneys all being equivalent to Johnny Cochran has pounded that nail into the coffin for good.

[ZENemy]

Group think will always exist


Less laws = less crimes = more freedom for EVERYONE.

[GunnyFreedom]

So it is a cultural thing, this crime stuff. Uh oh, another "race warrior"

Huh? My roommate is 100% obsessed with Japanese culture to the point that he lives it. There is not a drop of Japanese blood in his body. I never said their culture makes them criminal, I only said their culture predisposes them to not show up in crime statistics, because as a culture they tend to 'deal with their own.'

[otherone]

Brilliant.

It's not just brilliant; it's FUCKING BRILLIANT.
Individualism holds individuals accountable for their actions without blaming a demographic.

[AuH20]

Court appointeded attorney. You don't really belive any of the tripe you posted above do you? Rich people are notorious skinflints. Why are they going to pay $35,000 for a lawyer when they can just have one for free? -- unless, maybe, there is some kind of difference...... No, is that even possible?

I like you Au, but on this subject it's like you got nothing upstairs at all. :(

I'm telling you that income isn't that big of an issue with other options available. It's not an issue with home ownership and it isn't as critical for legal representation.

[AuH20]

It's not just brilliant; it's FUCKING BRILLIANT.
Individualism holds individuals accountable for their actions without blaming a demographic.

And certain salient trends pop up among particular populations. Treat every individual like you would want to be treated but don't be ignorant of certain probabilities.

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm telling you that income isn't that big of an issue with other options available. It's not an issue with home ownership and it isn't as critical for legal representation.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. A 'free' lawyer is just about as good as 'no' lawyer.

[AuH20]

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. A 'free' lawyer is just about as good as 'no' lawyer.

I'm not stating that a free lawyer is ideal. But you can take a loan plan out for a better lawyer. Or even apply to the one of the federal aid agencies. Obviously, if you committed a triple homicide, there isn't much available at one's disposal but you understand.

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm not stating that a free lawyer is ideal. But you can take a loan plan out for a better lawyer.

Because it's just as easy for a guy with $15k a year income to borrow $40k, as it is for a millionaire to cut $40k from petty cash....

[PaulConventionWV]

Huh? My roommate is 100% obsessed with Japanese culture to the point that he lives it. There is not a drop of Japanese blood in his body. I never said their culture makes them criminal, I only said their culture predisposes them to not show up in crime statistics, because as a culture they tend to 'deal with their own.'

Japanese culture is very interesting. They went from being bombed into oblivion to having the largest city in the world (Tokyo) with probably the most technologically advanced society on the planet.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm telling you that income isn't that big of an issue with other options available. It's not an issue with home ownership and it isn't as critical for legal representation.

Well, that's bullpucky.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm not stating that a free lawyer is ideal. But you can take a loan plan out for a better lawyer. Or even apply to the one of the federal aid agencies. Obviously, if you committed a triple homicide, there isn't much available at one's disposal but you understand.

So all of a sudden getting a second mortgage on the house to pay for legal fees is not only a viable, but a wholly acceptable option to you? You crazy...

You seem to be suggesting that having the ability to become a debt slave to the banks is akin to having a private stash of millions at your disposal.

If those poor people weren't depressed by the arrests for victimless crimes, they will be when the bill comes for borrowing all that money from the bank to pay for their defense.

[TheCount]

I'm not stating that a free lawyer is ideal. But you can take a loan plan out for a better lawyer.

A loan with what as collateral?

[otherone]

A loan with what as collateral?

Cake as collateral, as in "let them eat cake".