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View Full Version : Liberal response to police shootings? Ban toy guns...




jmdrake
12-05-2014, 10:29 PM
So white guy calls SWAT on black guy looking at BB guns at Walmart in a state where open carry is legal and SWAT kills the black man and it's Walmart's fault for selling BB guns? Really?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/12/04/toy-guns-cleveland-police-column/19901479/
A few years ago Walmart stopped selling candy cigarettes, which had led generations of American youngsters into a very bad habit. There's strong evidence that children who use candy imitations become heavier cigarette smokers later in life.

But Walmart still carries imitation guns, which can also put kids -- and many others -- in mortal danger. It's time to ask every merchant of fake weapons to cease and desist. And if they don't, we should hit them with our own best weapon: a consumer boycott.

Last summer, a 22-year-old man picked a BB gun off the shelves at a Walmart in suburban Dayton, Ohio. A few moments later he was shot dead by police, who mistook it for an actual rifle. And last month, on the other side of the state, a 12-year-old Cleveland boy was killed by a policeman who thought that the boy's toy gun was real.

Both victims were African-American, so these episodes have already been folded into the same racial narrative as the Ferguson shooting and the choking death of Eric Garner. But both of the Ohio young men would be alive if not for fake guns, which have proliferated in America since the 1950s.

That's when television brought Roy Rogers, Wyatt Earp, and other cowboy heroes into our living rooms. Millions of boys donned toy holsters and pistols, modeled upon — and advertised by — TV characters. By 1958, 20 million toy guns were sold each year .

The guns would prevent boys from becoming "sissies," advocates said, amid worries that postwar suburban affluence — and overprotective mothers — had eroded American masculinity. "It is perfectly natural for young boys to be fascinated by guns," wrote one approving physician. "They represent an extension of power and strength."

The fake guns would also steel American youth for the all-too-real struggle against Soviet Russia. "Peace depends on all of us being rugged and ready," declared the caption of a Saturday Evening Post cover, which showed young American boys dressed as pistol-toting cowboys. If the magazine made it past Russian censors, it added, "comrades may be slightly startled by this portrayal of little capitalists frolicking amiably with one another."

After the 1963 assassination of John F. Kennedy, some Americans started to question toy guns. In 1968, popular child-rearing expert Benjamin Spock advised parents against buying them; and later that year, in the wake of the murders of Martin Luther King, Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy, Sears and Bloomingdale's suspended toy gun sales during the Christmas season.

But sales picked up again in the 1970s, spurred by tie-ins to the blockbuster Star Wars movies. They continued to soar until 1987, when a mentally disturbed man burst onto the set of a live Los Angeles television news broadcast, held a pellet gun to a reporter's head, and forced him to read a statement warning about "space creatures" and the Central Intelligence Agency.

The following year brought the first federal toy gun law, which required a blaze-orange plug to be inserted into the visible end of every imitation firearm. Shortly after that, the government ruled that toy guns needed either the orange plug, a blaze-orange stripe around the barrel, or a translucent, brightly colored, or white exterior.

But BB and pellet guns were exempted from the legislation, while toy-gun owners often removed the orange plug or painted the guns to appear more real. And even when the fake guns retained their supposedly distinctive features, policemen couldn't tell the difference. In a 1989 experiment organized by the National Institute of Justice, 96% of officers fired at actors carrying a toy gun with an orange plug and 77% fired at those armed with a gun that had an orange stripe around the barrel.

So we shouldn't be surprised, really, when people wielding fake guns are gunned down. In 2012, police in Texas shot a 15-year-old eighth-grader to death when he refused to drop a BB gun he had brought to his middle school. Last year California police killed a 13-year-old boy carrying a replica rifle, leading the state legislature to pass a law requiring all such guns to be brightly colored.

And now, in the aftermath of the Ohio shootings, some critics are calling for outright bans on imitation guns. But it's hard to see how such measures could be reasonably enforced, given the ubiquity of fake firearms in American society.

Instead, we need targeted voluntary efforts against them. A good start is the toy gun buyback organized by community activists in Cleveland, who will offer books, other toys or concert tickets in exchange for the guns. And following Dr. Spock, parents shouldn't give their kids guns as presents.

But we should also urge merchants not to sell them. And the best way to do that is to stop patronizing the places that do. This holiday season, if you find yourself in a store that peddles weapons as playthings, take your business elsewhere. That's the only sure-fire way that we will ever stop the scourge of fake guns.

Jonathan Zimmerman is a professor of history and education at New York University. He is the author of the forthcoming "Too Hot to Handle: A Global History of Sex Education."

Pericles
12-05-2014, 10:34 PM
Its always the guns. Never the people involved.

jmdrake
12-05-2014, 10:52 PM
Good grief! Reading the comments. The jackass conservatives are as bad as the jackass liberal that wrote the article. "Thugs shouldn't point guns at police". That's not what happened! The black man in Walmart was looking at something on a shelf when he was gunned down by SWAT without a warning. The 12 year old boy hand put the gun in his waistband when the cop shot him a mere 1.5 seconds after getting out of the patrol car. Ban stupid people! The cops never should have been called in either situation.

jmdrake
12-05-2014, 10:54 PM
Its always the guns. Never the people involved.

In the comments the stupid liberals are blaming the guns. The stupid conservatives are blaming the people who got shot. How about blaming the cops for being trigger happy and the idiots who called 911 without knowing what was going on? "See something say something" my ass.

Anti Federalist
12-05-2014, 10:58 PM
In the comments the stupid liberals are blaming the guns. The stupid conservatives are blaming the people who got shot. How about blaming the cops for being trigger happy and the idiots who called 911 without knowing what was going on? "See something say something" my ass.

Can't tell me things are not different in AmeriKa today.

Anti Federalist
12-05-2014, 11:00 PM
That's when television brought Roy Rogers, Wyatt Earp, and other cowboy heroes into our living rooms. Millions of boys donned toy holsters and pistols, modeled upon — and advertised by — TV characters. By 1958, 20 million toy guns were sold each year .

And how many kids waving toy guns around got shot by trigger happy militarized police?

How many panty wetting people called cops when an 10 year old Lone Ranger went running down the street with a nickel plated .45 Long Colt cap gun?

TheTexan
12-05-2014, 11:04 PM
Well, it seems the two obvious solutions are to either get rid of toy guns or to get rid of police.... and obviously one of these ideas is just silly.

jmdrake
12-05-2014, 11:06 PM
Posted this comment.

I don't know who is worse. The stupid liberals that want to ban toy guns or the stupid conservatives that want to blame the victims of police violence. In the case of the black man shot at Walmart holding a toy gun that he picked up AT Walmart, the video shows he was shot without warning. He wasn't pointing his fake gun at anyone. He was looking at something on the shelf. In the case of the 12 year old boy, when the police showed up he wasn't pointing his toy gun at anyone. His hands were at his side. He was killed by police 1.5 seconds after the cop got out of the car. People talk about "disrespecting the police". How much disrespect can you do in 1.5 seconds? The person who called 911 on the 12 year old boy said that he thought the gun might be a toy. The 911 operator didn't forward that information to the police. Both the 911 operator and the idiot that made the call are to blame for the 12 year old boy's death. If you think it's a toy, talk to the boy. The cops were also to blame for having a "shoot first ask questions later" mentality. And in the case of the Walmart shooting, it was in state where open carry is legal. In such states white men routinely open carry guns into stores as a sign of exercising their 2nd amendment rights. And they should be able to do that. But don't kill the black man who's doing the same thing with a TOY gun! And if we're going to do all of this "racial profiling", the last few times there have been mass shootings it's always been WHITE males doing it. So why shoot the black men doing open carry? Some people commenting on this story should watch both videos first. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9FtNOV6Qhk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVZM8w9JCXI

In the case of the 12 year old boy the police claim they told him to "raise his hands 3 times". Sorry, but you can't do that in less than 2 seconds.

Cissy
12-05-2014, 11:09 PM
In the comments the stupid liberals are blaming the guns. The stupid conservatives are blaming the people who got shot. How about blaming the cops for being trigger happy and the idiots who called 911 without knowing what was going on? "See something say something" my ass.

Ironically, if the shooter wasn't wearing a government costume, neither conservative nor liberal would have any problem placing the blame on the shooter.

Christian Liberty
12-05-2014, 11:26 PM
Good grief! Reading the comments. The jackass conservatives are as bad as the jackass liberal that wrote the article. "Thugs shouldn't point guns at other thugs".

Fixed for stupid conservatives who still don't get it.

Christian Liberty
12-05-2014, 11:26 PM
Well, it seems the two obvious solutions are to either get rid of toy guns or to get rid of police.... and obviously one of these ideas is just silly.

Yes, I agree. Who wants to get rid of toy guns? That would be absurd.

Occam's Banana
12-05-2014, 11:54 PM
Good grief! Reading the comments. The jackass conservatives are as bad as the jackass liberal that wrote the article. "Thugs shouldn't point guns at police". That's not what happened! The black man in Walmart was looking at something on a shelf when he was gunned down by SWAT without a warning. The 12 year old boy hand put the gun in his waistband when the cop shot him a mere 1.5 seconds after getting out of the patrol car. Ban stupid people! The cops never should have been called in either situation.


In the comments the stupid liberals are blaming the guns. The stupid conservatives are blaming the people who got shot. How about blaming the cops for being trigger happy and the idiots who called 911 without knowing what was going on? "See something say something" my ass.

The idiots in this country deserve everything they're setting themselves up for.

I feel ya, Rorschach ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARDhJ2dpuYU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARDhJ2dpuYU

Rudeman
12-06-2014, 12:34 AM
I don't have the time and patience to deal with people this stupid but I'm glad you do. Even if just 1 of them thinks twice about how stupid their stance is.

A Son of Liberty
12-06-2014, 05:12 AM
The idiots in this country deserve everything they're setting themselves up for.

Unfortunately, we're stuck here with them.

Czolgosz
12-06-2014, 06:07 AM
This place is due a plague.

Henry Rogue
12-06-2014, 06:13 AM
Good grief! Reading the comments. The jackass conservatives are as bad as the jackass liberal that wrote the article. "Thugs shouldn't point guns at police". That's not what happened! The black man in Walmart was looking at something on a shelf when he was gunned down by SWAT without a warning. The 12 year old boy hand put the gun in his waistband when the cop shot him a mere 1.5 seconds after getting out of the patrol car. Ban stupid people! The cops never should have been called in either situation.
Blame the cops that squeezed their triggers. That's where the blame should be squarely placed. Ban the cops, that's the way to end these senseless murders. Banning anything or anyone else, just give cops more excuses to shoot people.

jmdrake
12-06-2014, 06:23 AM
There were a few sensible comments.

Pavel Minaev · Top Commenter · Manukau Institute of Technology
Or maybe, just maybe, we can teach the cops that when they see a kid with a gun, the default assumption should be that it is a toy gun - because it is correct in 99% of the cases.

Does it make the officers less safe? Yes, it does (by that 1%), but guess what? They signed up for the job, and their job description pretty much openly says that they are the ones risking their necks for the sake of more safety for the rest of us. The kid playing with a toy gun is just as much one of those they've pledged to "serve and protect". So when the choice is between a risk to their own person, and a risk of slaying an innocent, the choice should be crystal clear to anyone who has a place in police ranks.

If 70% of police officers truly choose to fire at a kid with a toy gun in a controlled experiment, the only thing that tells me for certain is that 70% of police officers need to be fired immediately, and replaced with people who have both some balls, and some empathy.

otherone
12-06-2014, 08:03 AM
Well, it seems the two obvious solutions are to either get rid of toy guns or to get rid of police.... and obviously one of these ideas is just silly.


...you forgot get rid of black people.
It makes as much sense as banning toys.

otherone
12-06-2014, 08:08 AM
Blame the cops that squeezed their triggers. That's where the blame should be squarely placed. Ban the cops, that's the way to end these senseless murders. Banning anything or anyone else, just give cops more excuses to shoot people.

If they ban toy soldiers,
http://www.dangerouscreation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/HippyGen3.jpg
maybe it would end war.

jmdrake
12-06-2014, 08:29 AM
...you forgot get rid of black people.
It makes as much sense as banning toys.

It seems that some folks are taking a "one at a time" approach to that. Mike Brown....Eric Garner....the man at Walmart....the 12 year old boy at the park....

otherone
12-06-2014, 08:53 AM
It seems that some folks are taking a "one at a time" approach to that. Mike Brown....Eric Garner....the man at Walmart....the 12 year old boy at the park....



Both victims were African-American, so these episodes have already been folded into the same racial narrative as the Ferguson shooting and the choking death of Eric Garner


that was my point.
It really is comical at this point watching statists trying to work this out...they know there is a problem, but are at a loss as to what it is.

http://nolanimrod.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ape_skull.jpg

Let's help them.
THE PROBLEM IS GOVERNMENT. THE SOLUTION IS NOT MORE GOVERNMENT.




BANG BANG OPEN UP!
POLICE!!
http://cdn.ladybud.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/swat-raid1.jpg?dc14d7
We got a call you've got toy guns here!

Pericles
12-08-2014, 01:33 PM
In the comments the stupid liberals are blaming the guns. The stupid conservatives are blaming the people who got shot. How about blaming the cops for being trigger happy and the idiots who called 911 without knowing what was going on? "See something say something" my ass.

Primary blame attaches to the latte sipping ass that hit the 911 dial. Accessory was the cop who can't exhibit sound judgment - that is the main part of the cop's job.

BV2
12-08-2014, 01:38 PM
They cannot lay blame where it belongs: the state. Not that they do not care but because they cannot see their savior so maligned. Yes, it's a religious cult that seeks a way of return on mortal terms. Hard to accept, but we are alone.