Maybe the cops had a legitimate reason to hassle Eric Garner

[Madison320]

Ok, this should make me enemy number one on this website, but here goes! My guess is that he was not being arrested for selling cigarettes, but for loitering in front of a business. I'm guessing the "arrested for selling cigarettes" is a strawman. I think the cops were trying to move him away from those businesses. Obviously if you are selling cigarettes on your property, that should not be a crime. But what if you are doing it in front of some guy's business and scaring away customers? Suppose some guy was selling cigarettes in front of your house, and all kinds of low lifes were hanging around your yard. What would you do?

I still haven't decided how I feel about this case but my guess is there's more to the story than is being reported. For one thing the guy supposedly had a rap sheet a mile long, including assault and larceny.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf.../post_875.html

[JK/SEA]

Ok, this should make me enemy number one on this website, but here goes! My guess is that he was not being arrested for selling cigarettes, but for loitering in front of a business. I'm guessing the "arrested for selling cigarettes" is a strawman. I think the cops were trying to move him away from those businesses. Obviously if you are selling cigarettes on your property, that should not be a crime. But what if you are doing it in front of some guy's business and scaring away customers? Suppose some guy was selling cigarettes in front of your house, and all kinds of low lifes were hanging around your yard. What would you do?

I still haven't decided how I feel about this case but my guess is there's more to the story than is being reported. For one thing the guy supposedly had a rap sheet a mile long, including assault and larceny.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf.../post_875.html

sidewalks are public property...and be careful, you're entering the copsucker status zone...

next question.

[AuH20]

I had a greater problem with the manner in which they apprehended him. Where was he honestly going? He was an out of shape black guy with pulmonary problems. Did he really deserve a pile-on?

[juleswin]

Ok, this should make me enemy number one on this website, but here goes! My guess is that he was not being arrested for selling cigarettes, but for loitering in front of a business. I'm guessing the "arrested for selling cigarettes" is a strawman. I think the cops were trying to move him away from those businesses. Obviously if you are selling cigarettes on your property, that should not be a crime. But what if you are doing it in front of some guy's business and scaring away customers? Suppose some guy was selling cigarettes in front of your house, and all kinds of low lifes were hanging around your yard. What would you do?

I still haven't decided how I feel about this case but my guess is there's more to the story than is being reported. For one thing the guy supposedly had a rap sheet a mile long, including assault and larceny.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf.../post_875.html

How about you tell him to move? loitering is still a crime in most cities and I am sure as hell it is a crime in New York city.

[enhanced_deficit]

Yep legit reason , tackle was out of abundance of caution.

http://omegainc.com/Portals/142206/images/4_6_cigarette_warning_label.jpg

[Madison320]

I had a greater problem with the manner in which they apprehended him. Where was he honestly going? He was an out of shape black guy with pulmonary problems. Did he really deserve a pile-on?

I agree.

[Madison320]

How about you tell him to move? loitering is still a crime in most cities and I am sure as hell it is a crime in New York city.

I think that's what happened. They asked him to move and that's when he got irate.

[JK/SEA]

I had a greater problem with the manner in which they apprehended him. Where was he honestly going? He was an out of shape black guy with pulmonary problems. Did he really deserve a pile-on?

to answer:

copsucker: yes

cop: yes

cop friends: yes

RPF trolls: yes

ok...you're welcome.

[Acala]

1st problem - public property. Public property inevitably creates conflicts of use that can only be resolved by the government. And that rarely works out well.

2nd problem - Cops have been trained to have essentially ONE method of interacting with the public and that is escalation of the level of force until compliance is achieved in a manner that puts officer safety first and citizen safety last. If people die along the way, it falls within SOP. Once upon a time, smart and concerned cops practiced alternatives for dealing with people without violence. That is contrary to modern training.

[Madison320]

sidewalks are public property...and be careful, you're entering the copsucker status zone...

next question.

Maybe the sidewalk is public property but it's still affecting the owner's property. You should also be careful, you're entering the left wing anti-property rights zone.

Ok, if that same guy was on your sidewalk selling cigarettes, what would you do?

[CaptUSA]

It is also against the law to resell little candy bars and soda that are labeled "not for individual sale", yet people do that all the time.

Maybe people will start waking up when the cops show up to the ball field and start choking the life outta some soccer moms.

[Madison320]

to answer:

copsucker: yes

cop: yes

cop friends: yes

RPF trolls: yes

ok...you're welcome.

Congratulations. I gave you a negative rep. First ever.

[Madison320]

1st problem - public property. Public property inevitably creates conflicts of use that can only be resolved by the government. And that rarely works out well.

2nd problem - Cops have been trained to have essentially ONE method of interacting with the public and that is escalation of the level of force until compliance is achieved in a manner that puts officer safety first and citizen safety last. If people die along the way, it falls within SOP. Once upon a time, smart and concerned cops practiced alternatives for dealing with people without violence. That is contrary to modern training.

I agree.

What would you do if this happened on the sidewalk in front of your home?

[staerker]

I agree.

What would you do if this happened on the sidewalk in front of your home?

Tell the cops that they're not welcome here.

[moostraks]

Since you decided to move this argument to its own thread,


...officials said Garner had a history of arrests for selling untaxed cigarettes. Cops said they observed him selling his wares Thursday on Bay St. and moved in for an arrest...http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/staten-island-man-dies-puts-choke-hold-article-1.1871486

I am not much of a supporter of those who use government to enforce unrelated laws to handle an issue which is separate from the laws being enforced. Guess a nanny state is great until it turns its eyes upon the people who have used it as their own enforcement class.:(

[JK/SEA]

Congratulations. I gave you a negative rep. First ever.

a neg rep from you is like having a mosquito buzzing around. They usually end up in one of my venus fly traps but...

The question is what would i do if i had a little girl selling lemonade in front of my home/ store...is that the question?...

[presence]

I agree.

What would you do if this happened on the sidewalk in front of your home?


I'd consider the dude a customer and try to sell him shit until he spent money or left. Kind of like when you walk into a country store in rural America.

[aGameOfThrones]

a neg rep from you is like having a mosquito buzzing around. They usually end up in one of my venus fly traps but...

The question is what would i do if i had a little girl selling lemonade in front of my home/ store...is that the question?...

you headlock her

[willwash]

Ok, this should make me enemy number one on this website, but here goes! My guess is that he was not being arrested for selling cigarettes, but for loitering in front of a business. I'm guessing the "arrested for selling cigarettes" is a strawman. I think the cops were trying to move him away from those businesses. Obviously if you are selling cigarettes on your property, that should not be a crime. But what if you are doing it in front of some guy's business and scaring away customers? Suppose some guy was selling cigarettes in front of your house, and all kinds of low lifes were hanging around your yard. What would you do?

I still haven't decided how I feel about this case but my guess is there's more to the story than is being reported. For one thing the guy supposedly had a rap sheet a mile long, including assault and larceny.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf.../post_875.html

Hard to blame a guy. You can buy cigs for under $5 a pack almost anywhere else, bring em to NYC and undercut the taxman. Sell 'em for 8, 9, even 10 dollars a pack and you're still offering a significant discount on taxed cigarettes which run $14 a pack.

More examples of why government doesn't work.

[Madison320]

Tell the cops that they're not welcome here.

That wasn't the question. I asked what you would do if Eric Garner was on the sidewalk outside of your house selling cigarettes.

[Madison320]

I'd consider the dude a customer and try to sell him shit until he spent money or left. Kind of like when you walk into a country store in rural America.

You're a liar.

[jkob]

Garner didn't have any cigarettes on his person when they killed him, even if he did there is no justifiable reason for putting him into a chokehold and then they leaving him lay the ground suffocating while he begged for his life. These cops killed this man.

[juleswin]

That wasn't the question. I asked what you would do if Eric Garner was on the sidewalk outside of your house selling cigarettes.

House and business are 2 very different places, I wouldn't want anyone outside my house loitering for any reason. But I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with a person standing outside my business as long as he is not causing problems or trying to undermine me by selling to my customers before they get into my store.

So to your question, it all depends on where is was standing (my house or outside my business) and what he was doing.

[JK/SEA]

You're a liar.

oooo...thats gotta hurt....>shivers<

[JK/SEA]

That wasn't the question. I asked what you would do if Eric Garner was on the sidewalk outside of your house selling cigarettes.

i had a little girl selling lemonade in front of my house once, and called your mom.

[staerker]

That wasn't the question. I asked what you would do if Eric Garner was on the sidewalk outside of your house selling cigarettes.

If you're trying to get me to admit that I'd kill him, you have the wrong guy.

[ExPatPaki]

I asked what you would do if Eric Garner was on the sidewalk outside of your house selling cigarettes.

Ask him if he knows where I can get some pot.

[presence]

You're a liar.

That's uncalled for. I'm quite serious.

Personally, I don't live where there are sidewalks or even curbs... but if a car falls into the ditch (my moat) on my 1200' of frontage my first instinct is to offer services.

Been many a time now I've said,

"I'll pull you out for $100 or buy it off of you for $500"

They usually take the $100 deal and I fire up the Farmall.

:D


Now some dude out front sellin' cigarettes? I've yet to run into that one but sure as shit if someone is pushing black market wares on my doorstep I'd try to sell some bottles of homebrew or rabbit meat.

[juleswin]

If you're trying to get me to admit that I'd kill him, you have the wrong guy.

Yes, but would you choke him if he started mouthing off? Not talking about choking to death, but just choking him to the point that he cant yell and then releasing him

[staerker]

Yes, but would you choke him if he started mouthing off? Not talking about choking to death, but just choking him to the point that he cant yell and then releasing him

??? What kind of a question even is this? I don't go asked choking people I have no quarrel with.

[kahless]

Ok, this should make me enemy number one on this website, but here goes! My guess is that he was not being arrested for selling cigarettes, but for loitering in front of a business. I'm guessing the "arrested for selling cigarettes" is a strawman. I think the cops were trying to move him away from those businesses. Obviously if you are selling cigarettes on your property, that should not be a crime. But what if you are doing it in front of some guy's business and scaring away customers? Suppose some guy was selling cigarettes in front of your house, and all kinds of low lifes were hanging around your yard. What would you do?

I still haven't decided how I feel about this case but my guess is there's more to the story than is being reported. For one thing the guy supposedly had a rap sheet a mile long, including assault and larceny.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf.../post_875.html

I does not matter what he is was doing, where or his history. There is a way you deal with the problem and a way you do not. It was not necessary to take him down like that. They knew the risk with the chokehold which was un-necessary and should have been cognizant of his breathing problems.

Just because someone is big that does not mean they do not have a host of problems and disregard all levels of safety of the suspect. Without even the choke hold I see a guy like that going down and I think about the risk of stroke or heart attack because of being over weight.



I still haven't decided how I feel about this case


Do you believe in the police rendering a decision and resorting to street justice or innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

[Working Poor]

I agree.

What would you do if this happened on the sidewalk in front of your home?

Are you talking about the killing or the selling of cigs? I would not want any killing in front of my property. I don't care about the cig sales.

[PRB]

COPS NEVER EVER HAVE a legitimate reason to harass anybody.

http://i.imgur.com/sdJs3yP.jpg

[kcchiefs6465]

That wasn't the question. I asked what you would do if Eric Garner was on the sidewalk outside of your house selling cigarettes.
What kind of answer are you hoping for?

I certainly would not call the police on him, nor would I put him in a choke hold until death.

What would you do?

To be more specific, though, depending the day, I might buy a cigarette from said cigarette salesman. Pure anarchy, I know.

[sparebulb]

Dedicated to those who have been coming out of the woodwork lately....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ_ERuFQxIk

[twomp]

a neg rep from you is like having a mosquito buzzing around. They usually end up in one of my venus fly traps but...

The question is what would i do if i had a little girl selling lemonade in front of my home/ store...is that the question?...

I would call the cops and tell them that the girl is on my property and have her forcibly removed. If she resists, I would insist that the cops execute her.

[Occam's Banana]

Maybe the cops had a legitimate reason to hassle Eric Garner

Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but people are not upset over the Garner case because the cops merely "hassled" some street vendor ...

The cops didn't just "hassle" Eric Garner - they killed him. And they had NO legitimate reason for doing so. Period.


I asked what you would do if Eric Garner was on the sidewalk outside of your house selling cigarettes.

Before or after I bought some cigs from him?

*shrug* Dunno. I suppose at some point I would probably have thanked him for saving me a trip to the store.

But whatever I did, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have involved ending his life ...

EDIT: And what's more, if I *did* end his life, I'd at least expect to face some kind of consequences (if only acquittal at a jury trial), and not walk away scot-free like the system has allowed these cops to do ...

[euphemia]

I still haven't decided how I feel about this case but my guess is there's more to the story than is being reported. For one thing the guy supposedly had a rap sheet a mile long, including assault and larceny.

Um, dude, those are not capital crimes and police are not judges and juries. If there is a problem, deal with the problem. Don't take his life with your bare hands. I'm not a cop hater. Hear me on that. But there is so much wrong with this case, even I have to ask some questions.

[Root]

Now some dude out front sellin' cigarettes? I've yet to run into that one but sure as shit if someone is pushing black market wares on my doorstep I'd try to sell some bottles of homebrew or rabbit meat.
Dude, I'll buy some homebrew and rabbit meat from you. Or better yet, trade you for some of my homebrew and smoked ribs.

[Madison320]

Damn this forum is seriously fucked up. Only one person would admit that they'd be upset if a big black dude with lengthy criminal history was hanging out in their front yard selling cigarettes to other criminals. And even that guy claims he would only be upset if it was his house, not his business. Ha! Ha! Ha! You guys are a bunch of computer geeks trying to sound cool. In real life you'd be pissing your pants if that guy was outside your house!

[JK/SEA]

Damn this forum is seriously fucked up. Only one person would admit that they'd be upset if a big black dude with lengthy criminal history was hanging out in their front yard selling cigarettes to other criminals. And even that guy claims he would only be upset if it was his house, not his business. Ha! Ha! Ha! You guys are a bunch of computer geeks trying to sound cool. In real life you'd be pissing your pants if that guy was outside your house!

another drool donkey without a clue...your mommy wants you.

oops...forgot...NEG REP...

[sparebulb]

Damn this forum is seriously fucked up. Only one person would admit that they'd be upset if a big black dude with lengthy criminal history was hanging out in their front yard selling cigarettes to other criminals. And even that guy claims he would only be upset if it was his house, not his business. Ha! Ha! Ha! You guys are a bunch of computer geeks trying to sound cool. In real life you'd be pissing your pants if that guy was outside your house!

Obvious intent to troll the collective is obvious.

[tod evans]

Damn this forum is seriously fucked up. Only one person would admit that they'd be upset if a big black dude with lengthy criminal history was hanging out in their front yard selling cigarettes to other criminals. And even that guy claims he would only be upset if it was his house, not his business. Ha! Ha! Ha! You guys are a bunch of computer geeks trying to sound cool. In real life you'd be pissing your pants if that guy was outside your house!

Not I he'd have been run off by the dogs long before I ever noticed he was on the dirt road...

If perchance he did make it to my house I'm meaner than my dogs, then there's the ol' lady..:eek:


Oh..............Maybe you're talkin' about city folk?




"Criminal history"...........Like ex-cons print it on their forehead..:rolleyes:

[Occam's Banana]

Damn this forum is seriously fucked up. Only one person would admit that they'd be upset if a big black dude with lengthy criminal history was hanging out in their front yard selling cigarettes to other criminals. [...]


"Criminal history"...........Like ex-cons print it on their forehead..:rolleyes:

Nah - Eric Garner's "criminal history" (i.e., selling smokes to "other criminals" :rolleyes:) was too "lengthy" to fit it all on his forehead.

Apparently, just being "a big black dude" is supposed to be enough evidence of "lengthy criminal history" to scare the bejeebus out of people ...

[CaptainAmerica]

Ok, this should make me enemy number one on this website, but here goes! My guess is that he was not being arrested for selling cigarettes, but for loitering in front of a business. I'm guessing the "arrested for selling cigarettes" is a strawman. I think the cops were trying to move him away from those businesses. Obviously if you are selling cigarettes on your property, that should not be a crime. But what if you are doing it in front of some guy's business and scaring away customers? Suppose some guy was selling cigarettes in front of your house, and all kinds of low lifes were hanging around your yard. What would you do?

I still haven't decided how I feel about this case but my guess is there's more to the story than is being reported. For one thing the guy supposedly had a rap sheet a mile long, including assault and larceny.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf.../post_875.html

He was on a sidewalk ,your argument is invalid.

[rpfocus]

Ok, this should make me enemy number one on this website, but here goes! My guess is that he was not being arrested for selling cigarettes, but for loitering in front of a business. I'm guessing the "arrested for selling cigarettes" is a strawman. I think the cops were trying to move him away from those businesses. Obviously if you are selling cigarettes on your property, that should not be a crime. But what if you are doing it in front of some guy's business and scaring away customers? Suppose some guy was selling cigarettes in front of your house, and all kinds of low lifes were hanging around your yard. What would you do?

I still haven't decided how I feel about this case but my guess is there's more to the story than is being reported. For one thing the guy supposedly had a rap sheet a mile long, including assault and larceny.


Lots of suppositions and guesses there. When you come up with some facts, let us know. Meanwhile, Garner is feeding the worms, courtesy of the NYPD.

[Anti Federalist]

Damn this forum is seriously fucked up. Only one person would admit that they'd be upset if a big black dude with lengthy criminal history was hanging out in their front yard selling cigarettes to other criminals. And even that guy claims he would only be upset if it was his house, not his business. Ha! Ha! Ha! You guys are a bunch of computer geeks trying to sound cool. In real life you'd be pissing your pants if that guy was outside your house!

Oh, blow it out your ass.

I would tell him to move along, that this is private property.

Just as I have done before many times IRL.

No big deal.

I certainly wouldn't call cops

[otherone]

Lots of suppositions and guesses there. When you come up with some facts, let us know. Meanwhile, Garner is feeding the worms, courtesy of the NYPD.

He point blank says Garner was arrested for being SCARY, and 'that' JUSTIFIES the arrest.