Martinsburg WV Police Shoot Wayne A. Jones 23 Times for Walking Next to Sidewalk

[libertyjam]

Martinsburg WV Police Shoot Wayne A. Jones 23 Times for Walking Next to Sidewalk

http://www.copblock.org/86874/martinsburg-wv-police-shoot-wayne-a-jones-23-times-for-walking-next-to-sidewalk/

By THE FULL COURT PRESS (http://thefullcourtpress.org/) & Virginia Cop Block (http://virginiacopblock.org/):
THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW

Wayne had no warrants for his arrest and had committed no crimes.
Wayne had no drugs or alcohol in his system.
Judge states in her Order for Summary Judgement “NO KNIFE WAS EVER PRODUCED”
Approximately 50 conflicting material statements by LEO in State Police File, Depositions and videos.
Case illegitimately thrown out because a RESPONSE to a discovery request was deemed to have been filed ‘one’ day late.
Dashcam videos admittedly “altered” by West Virginia State Police prior to releasing them to family.
Officer allegedly stabbed stated, in fact, “He was not stabbed” on the video and Medical file refutes any treatment for cuts/stabbing.
Officer states they shot him because “he was just fuck’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.“
Bullet fragments/pieces found on front of Wayne’s shirt – furthering the reality that he was lying face down when (5) Cops shot him 23 times.

Wayne A. Jones was walking down the street beside the sidewalk at 11:30pm on March 3, 2013. An Officer Lehman lurked behind him in his patrol unit watching Wayne as he was walking. As Wayne made a wide turn around a parked car, he immediately turned in towards the curb and continued walking. The video depicts Wayne stopping at an intersection and then crossing the street and ultimately stopping when the Officer pulled his vehicle over and exited.
Help the Estate of Wayne A. Jones hold these Cops Responsible! (http://www.gofundme.com/standwithwayne)
A consensual encounter ensued where Wayne attempted to articulate where he was going and why he was not walking on the sidewalk. Lehman immediately wanted to turn the encounter into a warrantless search and seizure by making several requests and asking Wayne “Where are you going?” and “Do you have any weapons on you?” We know now that Wayne had a pair of scissors in his back pocket because of the Medical Examiner Report. Wayne responded “What is a weapon?”

At this point, one could only surmise that he wanted to know, from the officer, if a pair of scissors was considered a weapon; Regardless, we will never find out because immediately what started out as consensual was escalated to detainment and ultimately a murder. Wayne refused to be detained and asked the Officer “What did I do to you?” and “What do you want?” Over and over – He asked the question. Lehman never said Wayne was under arrest, he never accused him of a crime yet he continued to demand Wayne to put his hands on the vehicle. Wayne Jones refused and was subsequently tazed twice as backup officers arrived on the scene.

A chase ensued and Wayne ran onto the public library steps where the Officers chased him. Again Wayne exclaimed “What did I do to you?” What did I do to you?” With no answer, Wayne was punched in the side of the head, put into an illegal choke hold and thrown on the ground where a total of (5) officers placed Wayne on his stomach – beat him over and over, tazed him another two times while calling him a motherfucker and kicking him. Instead of cuffing Wayne, they continued to beat him and – someone yelled that he saw a knife[sic]; yet in the Police reports, some officers said that they didn’t see a knife and others couldnt agree on what size the knife was. Furthermore – miraculously, multiple knives turned up on the scene after the fact and to date no knife has been physically produced.

At a point after the officers stated that they saw a knife – each officer, in unison, slowly backed away from Wayne, who lay motionless on his stomach after being horrifically brutalized. As an Officer Neely backed away, he instantaneously fired his weapon into the head of Wayne Jones and the other (4) officers followed suit. Totaling twenty-three shots, every bullet went into Wayne Jones body from the (5) officers. The Police Report clearly stated that Wayne was 5’9 and weighed 130lbs yet (5) officers who probably weighed 900-1000lbs could not subdue one 130lb individual without filling him full of holes equivalent to Swiss Cheese.

In the reports – each officer made a scripted statement that included “knife”, “fear”, and “noncompliance” summarizing that they felt in fear of their lives; however – the video tells a much different story. In fact, in Officer Staub’s video at around 23:30 he specifically stated that “He wouldn’t fucking do nothing so we all shot him” Additionally, Staub was the officer that was purportedly stabbed by the “phantom-throwdown” knife that multiplied into two knives underneath Wayne’s body after he was killed. Four different officers made materially false statements about the existence, location and the fact that they altered the crime scene and moved the knives[sic] which were never found to have any fingerprints, dna or other forensic evidence that would conclude that Wayne, in fact, possessed a knife or stabbed an officer. No knife was ever produced.
Several observations after watching all of the videos, make one wonder if they are even authentic, nevermind that the West Virginia State Police has already gone on the record and stated, after it was obvious that much of the audio had been doctored, deleted or otherwise maligned – that they had, in fact, made alterations to the video/audio which was released nearly (6) months after the murder. None of the timestamps on any of the dashcams are synched and most notably, non of the cruisers are ever facing a position which would shed any light on the actual incident despite it was 11:30pm and proper training and protocol is to position the vehicle’s headlights on the incident for maximum lighting.


The Martinsburg District Attorney had a Special Grand Jury convened to hear the evidence against these (5) officers and just like Michael Brown, the Special Grand Jury refused to indict. The family of Wayne Jones, immediately retained counsel and sued the City of Martinsburg and its police officers who were involved in this crime. Please help us fight for your Rights and mine! (http://www.gofundme.com/standwithwayne)
Ironically – as a result of some legal incompetence; the attorney representing the Estate of Wayne Jones , at the very least, constructively threw them under the bus by failing to file documents, integral to the case, in a timely fashion(“1” day late). In and of itself, these types of situations are not fatal and the Federal Courts won’t throw out such a high profile and emotionally charged case based on a minor technicality, but in this case – the US District Court Judge Gina H Groh made the decision to grant a summary judgment to the City and the police officers and dismiss the Estate’s lawsuit with prejudice, in effect, thoroughly abusing her discretion and failing to allow the lawsuit to move forward.
It appeared that it was over for the family – their brother Wayne was dead, their rights had been disenfranchised in the Federal Court System, and it appeared like there would be no day in court where a full and fair hearing would be had on the merits of this case of Excessive Force by death and Wrongful Death.
After the Judge ruled against the Estate, attorney Sherman Lambert, withdrew himself from the case and for nearly three weeks, the Estate searched for the right legal counsel to represent them. With little to no success, the Estate created a package to send out to prospective attorneys. For nearly another week, they made calls and pitched Wayne Jones and the wide ramifications that this case has on our country, blacks, elderly, and the homeless. In the wake of the Ferguson outcry by Citizens, Wayne Jones, though murdered on March 13, 2013, his blood is still crying out for Justice. Please support Wayne’s Cause! (http://www.gofundme.com/standwithwayne)
After speaking to Bobby Jones(Estate Administrator), its crystal clear that neither of these men are primarily after money – and the Jones family desires that these (5) men be held accountable for the death of their brother and the City of Martinsburg to apologize, and immediately start retraining its Police Department so that this never “ever” happens again.
As an activist, investigative journalist and a reasonable man, please agree and partner with me and the Estate of Wayne Jones. Refuse to allow Wayne A. Jones’ horrendous last ten minutes of his life and his senseless death become nothing more than a Constitutional Anomaly and a legal afterthought.
As a nation, we can not run from this oppression. We must stand up to these policies and resist this oppression – peacefully and in the spirit of due process and Constitutional redress. In the wake of Michael Brown, obviously, a POLICE STATE pattern is prevalent and free citizens are being disallowed to choose to ‘walk away’ from encounters and are being forcefully detained to the point of death, if they refuse to succumb to unconstitutional demands on their freedom and liberty to travel and be free from warrantless searches and seizures.
As citizens, we have inalienable rights to travel and walk freely, unfettered or harassed. Ill trained and unqualified officers must be the focus of these political stands. Cities must be responsible and held accountable for their officers, which in this case, at minimum rise to the level of a public nuisance in a community based policing program. Face it – at best, Wayne was guilty of an administrative violation, if at all. He had a good reason for not walking on the sidewalk – Officer Lehman refused to allow him to articulate it.
As it stands today – The Estate of Wayne Jones has retained legal counsel last week for the purpose of its Appeal to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. This case will be argued in mid January and the Fourth Circuit will rule – some time afterward. We are confident that that Wayne’s case will be reversed based on clear rules in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and controlling case precedent.
Presently, the Estate is asking for help with the costs to litigate this case and bring justice to Wayne Jones and his family. Costs for experts, filing, depositions and travel are substantial, therefore a Crowdfunding campaign has been created to move this honorable cause forward. Help Prepare for this Legal Battle! (http://www.gofundme.com/standwithwayne)
All donations go directly into the Fiduciary Account for the Legal Fund of the Estate of Wayne Jones managed by The Virginia Law Group, Rocco Deleonardis, 11480 Sunset Hills Blvd. Reston Virginia 20190-5265 (703)338-2434 – roccodeleonardis@yahoo.com
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAEAAAAALAA AAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw== (http://www.gofundme.com/standwithwayne?utm_medium=wdgt)

By: Rand Cadmus
(540)395-3539
randcadmus@yahoo.com
Please consider sharing this article with your media contacts as this case continues
the pressure must continue as well.

[presence]

This is the extent of the Associated Press / MSM coverage:



Police shot Virginia man 23 times, autopsy shows

Published April 25, 2014Associated Press (http://www.ap.org/)


Facebook (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/25/police-shot-virginia-man-23-times-autopsy-shows/#)144 Twitter (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/25/police-shot-virginia-man-23-times-autopsy-shows/#)112 Email (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/25/police-shot-virginia-man-23-times-autopsy-shows/#) Print (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/25/police-shot-virginia-man-23-times-autopsy-shows/#)

MARTINSBURG, W.Va. – An autopsy report says Martinsburg police officers shot a Virginia man 23 times during an altercation in 2013.
The report says Wayne Arnold Jones died from multiple gunshot wounds.
The 50-year-old Stephens City, Va., man's brothers are suing the city over the shooting on behalf of his estate. The wrongful death lawsuit seeks $200 million in damages.
Media outlets report that the family's lawyer, Sherman L. Lambert Sr., filed a copy of the autopsy report in federal court in Martinsburg on Tuesday. Lambert also filed an amended lawsuit that adds the officers as defendants.


Police have said Jones drew a knife and stabbed one officer during a scuffle.


Last week, a judge ordered the city to provide the autopsy report and a state police report to the plaintiffs.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/25/police-shot-virginia-man-23-times-autopsy-shows/



Lawsuit says police altered video in West Virginia shooting

By Jeffrey B. Roth
Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:40pm EDT

(Reuters) - Police in a West Virginia city altered video evidence in the death of a mentally ill black man who was shot and killed last year during a confrontation with officers, a lawyer for the victim's family said on Thursday.
Sherman L. Lambert Sr., an attorney representing the estate of Wayne A. Jones, filed a legal motion on Wednesday in a $200 million lawsuit against five Martinsburg police officers. The lawsuit accuses the officers of using excessive force in the March 2013 shooting.
The officers were cleared of wrongdoing in a report from West Virginia State Police investigators in April. Last October, a grand jury found their actions to be justified.
“We question the authenticity of the DVD police provided,” Lambert said. “One of the main issues in the case was whether police used excessive force.”
The lawsuit, filed on behalf of family members in June 2013, will go to trial on Oct. 28 in the U.S. District Court of Northern Virginia.
Across the country, video evidence is playing an increasingly important role in such cases.
Two deaths this year - the shooting on Aug. 9 of a black teenager by an officer in Ferguson, Missouri, and the July 17 death of a New York man after police used a choke hold on him - gained national notoriety in part because they were recorded on mobile phones.
Jones, a 50-year-old who took schizophrenia medication, was shot by officers 23 times, according to the autopsy report.
The motion filed by Lambert claims there were four videos of the shooting, taken from dashboard cameras of police cruisers on the scene, and none shows what occurred before Jones was shot. Only the shooting itself appears on the recording, said Lambert.
According to police, the officers struck Jones twice with stun guns after he became angry and refused to follow orders. The shocks had “little” effect on Jones, who pulled a knife and stabbed one of the officers, inflicting a minor wound.
Jones was ordered to drop the knife while he still was on the ground. When he refused and tried to get up, the

officers fired multiple rounds at him “to neutralize the threat,”

police said.

But there is no video evidence of the stabbing and other events leading up to the shooting. Lambert said it defied logic that police would start recording at the end of the incident, though the motion filed on Wednesday provided no direct evidence of altering.
Boyd L. Warner, who represents the five officers, filed a motion earlier this month to have the case dismissed. It argued that the lawsuit raised no fresh issues that the state investigation and the grand jury had failed to resolve.
Warner was unavailable on Thursday for further comment.
(Reporting by Jeffrey B. Roth in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania; Editing by Grant McCool (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=grant.mccool&))


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/28/us-usa-west-virginia-shooting-idUSKBN0GS2TV20140828

U.S. court dismisses $200 million suit in West Virginia fatal police shooting

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/us/news/editorial/d/0c/d0c3eb8ca18907492a4b337b5cec5193.jpeg (http://www.reuters.com/) By Jeffrey Roth October 16, 2014 8:09 PM

(Reuters) - A U.S. federal court has dismissed a $200 million civil lawsuit filed by the family of a man being treated for schizophrenia who was shot 23 times by police in West Virginia, drawing criticism from the local chapter of a national civil rights group.

U.S. District Court Judge Gina Groh of the Northern District of West Virginia ruled that the use of deadly force by five officers in the city of Martinsburg was

reasonable and justified

in the March 14, 2013, shooting death of Wayne Arnold Jones, a 50-year-old black man.

Police said Jones, a visitor from Stephens City, Virginia, who was taking medication for schizophrenia, was first struck with stun guns after he became angry and refused to follow orders. He pulled a knife and stabbed one of the officers, causing a minor wound, police said, leading to the shooting.
In dismissing the case with prejudice, "the court finds that a reasonable officer ... would have concluded that Jones posed an immediate threat of serious physical harm to all of the officers,” Groh wrote in the opinion, released late Wednesday.
On Thursday, Harold Stewart, secretary of the Jefferson County chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, compared the case to the Aug. 9 shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a Ferguson, Missouri, officer. The incident has sparked outrage in the St. Louis area and weeks of protests against police violence.
The decision, coupled with the Ferguson case, “seems to be saying outright that if an African-American is the victim of police brutality, 'don't worry about it, it's a black man or black woman,'” Stewart said.
Sherman L. Lambert Sr., a lawyer who represented the Jones family, said they had earlier refused to settle their case against the five officers because they wanted the public “to know the truth about this matter."
“We do not accept as a given that the police, who are charged to 'protect and serve' our community, can roam our streets and kill citizens without consequence,” said Lambert, who said he has withdrawn as the family's attorney.
Neither the officers or their attorney, Boyd L. Warner, was available for comment on Thursday.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-court-dismisses-200-mln-suit-west-virginia-000913693.html



Feel free to look for another MSM mention... you won't find any.

[JK/SEA]

I think Police are out of control.

They need more money.

[Brian4Liberty]

Other reports state that the victim was mentally ill, which might explain some strange behavior. Apparently diagnosis and treatment by police in the street is standard procedure. Streamlined Obamacare, with death panels and euthanasia...

[alucard13mm]

I don't sympathize with brown just because he committed a crime and was walking on the middle of the street like an idiot, thus attracting attention.

This guy will probably not get a peep or a wimper.

[muh_roads]

Officer states they shot him because “he was just fuck’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.“



Wow

[Anti Federalist]

Officer states they shot him because “he was just fuck’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

Officer states they shot him because “he was just fuck’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

Officer states they shot him because “he was just fuck’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

[Ender]

I don't sympathize with brown just because he committed a crime and was walking on the middle of the street like an idiot, thus attracting attention.

This guy will probably not get a peep or a wimper.

So- no Rule if Law for you, eh?

[aGameOfThrones]

I don't sympathize with brown just because he committed a crime and was walking on the middle of the street like an idiot, thus attracting attention.

This guy will probably not get a peep or a wimper.



http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2014/11/tumblr_net0zrOcZZ1qbyb95o3_500.gif

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I'm supposed to hate Eric Frein.

[PaulConventionWV]

This case is just so bizarre in every way. How come this isn't bigger news? No public outcry? No paid vacations? They just kind of dismissed the whole thing with a half-assed cover-up because they don't really need to cover it up anymore because they're completely immune to consequences?

I mean, this is bad even for RPF standards. We've seen a lot of dumb stories, but this one is as bad as the worst of them, and add to that the fact that they don't even feel the need to get their story straight... what in the hell is going on? I am beside myself if I wasn't already.

In what world can a police officer shoot someone and just say it was because they were just lying there? They didn't even try to make an excuse like they usually do.

[invisible]

This case is just so bizarre in every way. How come this isn't bigger news? No public outcry? No paid vacations? They just kind of dismissed the whole thing with a half-assed cover-up because they don't really need to cover it up anymore because they're completely immune to consequences?

I mean, this is bad even for RPF standards. We've seen a lot of dumb stories, but this one is as bad as the worst of them, and add to that the fact that they don't even feel the need to get their story straight... what in the hell is going on? I am beside myself if I wasn't already.

Has this one even been in the WV media in your part of the state?

[acptulsa]

Officer states they shot him because “he was just fuck’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

Officer states they shot him because “he was just fuck’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

Officer states they shot him because “he was just fuck’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

And did he obey your psychotic asses after you put twenty-freaking-three holes in him?

Or did he just continue to lie there--and leak on your shoes?

Fucking asshole.

[aGameOfThrones]

KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.

[alucard13mm]

This case is just so bizarre in every way. How come this isn't bigger news? No public outcry? No paid vacations? They just kind of dismissed the whole thing with a half-assed cover-up because they don't really need to cover it up anymore because they're completely immune to consequences?

I mean, this is bad even for RPF standards. We've seen a lot of dumb stories, but this one is as bad as the worst of them, and add to that the fact that they don't even feel the need to get their story straight... what in the hell is going on? I am beside myself if I wasn't already.

In what world can a police officer shoot someone and just say it was because they were just lying there? They didn't even try to make an excuse like they usually do.

I can sympathize for this victim because he didn't really do anything wrong at all.

[acptulsa]

I can sympathize for this victim because he didn't really do anything wrong at all.

But you have no sympathy for someone who received a summary execution for jaywalking...

[alucard13mm]

But you have no sympathy for someone who received a summary execution for jaywalking...

More like he committed a crime 5-10 minutes ago.. and then jaywalked. Brown didn't rob to feed himself because he was hungry or rob to buy medicine for his little baby.. he robbed cigarillos using his large physical stature to do some manhandling. I've been robbed a few times and I do wish ill upon those individuals that robbed me. When you are being robbed, you don't know if you gonna die or get hurt bad.

If I committed a crime, you can bet I will try to be non-conspicious so I don't attract cops. If I was transporting 20-30 pounds of weed or cocaine in my car.. I probably wont run stop signs or make an illegal u-turn that would draw a cop's attention in the first place.

A thug versus psychotic cop. Nope. No symphathy. If it was a law abiding citizen that committed no crimes in the last 10 minutes and got blasted away for jaywalking.. then yes. I have sympathy.

A lot of you guys harbor way too much hate for what looks to be all cops... its kinda funny how those protestors are like.. FUCK THE POLICE... then some of the protesters get run over by a car.. who you think the protesters are gonna call? Ghost busters? No, 911. Some cops and ambulance will show up. Obviously the ambulance won't go there by themselves, especially into an antsy crowd. They will have a police escort.

My house got burglarize? Oh, let me call the cops so there is a record and a report so I can submit the information to insurance. Oh, a hooker's body is on my property? Let me call the cops. Don't bullshit me and tell me you won't call the cops under many circumstances that warrants it.

Do I like cops? No. I don't. I don't try to instigate or give them an excuse to blast me away. But you have to admit that you will need cops sometimes.

[acptulsa]

I've been robbed a few times and I do wish ill upon those individuals that robbed me.

Well, that's natural. And if you're not a Christian, I guess you can get away with it.


If I was transporting 20-30 pounds of weed or cocaine in my car...

If you could afford thirty pounds of cocaine, you could afford to hire an armored car as a taxi. That would be pretty good camouflage.


A thug versus psychotic cop. Nope. No symphathy. If it was a law abiding citizen that committed no crimes in the last 10 minutes and got blasted away for jaywalking.. then yes. I have sympathy.

I understand that you're comparing that with the situation in this thread's OP. And this is a good example to use if you're frustrated with someone when talking about Ferguson. But the Constitutional guarantees of due process which are supposed to allow us to have police that don't do the summary execution thing, are important all the time.

As for hating the cops, we remember when police departments were more likely to hire guys who could actually read and understand the Constitution, and then make them do it. Most of us (the anarchists here are vocal, but a minority nonetheless) want to get the federal government out of the business of micromismanaging local police so we can once again have say in how they're run.

[Christian Liberty]

Well, that's natural. And if you're not a Christian, I guess you can get away with it.



If you could afford thirty pounds of cocaine, you could afford to hire an armored car as a taxi. That would be pretty good camouflage.



I understand that you're comparing that with the situation in this thread's OP. And this is a good example to use if you're frustrated with someone when talking about Ferguson. But the Constitutional guarantees of due process which are supposed to allow us to have police that don't do the summary execution thing, are important all the time.

As for hating the cops, we remember when police departments were more likely to hire guys who could actually read and understand the Constitution, and then make them do it. Most of us (the anarchists here are vocal, but a minority nonetheless) want to get the federal government out of the business of micromismanaging local police so we can once again have say in how they're run.

"anarchists" generally agree with you on this. Mind you, we'd eventually like to go the extra step of getting "government" out of the issues entirely and leave these issues up to privately hired police, but we definitely agree with you that decentralization is a step in the right direction.

Speaking only for me, I don't see myself as being at odds with minarchists and constitutionalists as long as they don't see themselves as being at odds with me. Heck, I'd even add honest, libertarian-leaning liberals and anti-authoritarian conservatives (paleocons and similar) to that list most of the time.

My ideal is no coercive tax system and no coercive monopoly on the right to use force. I don't care precisely what people come up with so long as the principle of non-aggression and peaceful, voluntary interaction are respected. I don't have a blueprint that I insist on for a voluntary society.

I do not see how minarchism, constitutionalism, or any variant of liberal or conservative ideology are actually logically consistent. Thus, I don't accept them. That said, I am not all-or-nothing, in the sense that I am willing to work with those who have slightly different or slightly less consistent goals than I do, so long as they are going for a SIMILAR goal to me.

[The Free Hornet]

My house got burglarize? Oh, let me call the cops so there is a record and a report so I can submit the information to insurance. Oh, a hooker's body is on my property? Let me call the cops. Don't bullshit me and tell me you won't call the cops under many circumstances that warrants it.

Do I like cops? No. I don't. I don't try to instigate or give them an excuse to blast me away. But you have to admit that you will need cops sometimes.

In this context, the cops ensure they are needed by making the consequences worse for you if their services aren't rendered. Insurance may not pay without proof of forced entry and a police report. I can hate doctors because they have a state granted monopoly on their trade, it doesn't mean I won't need them. The fact that they run their businesses by giving their "customers" no other choice is why they are detested.

Anyway, I don't know who was bullshitting you, but I would at least think twice about calling the cops.

[alucard13mm]

Well, that's natural. And if you're not a Christian, I guess you can get away with it.



If you could afford thirty pounds of cocaine, you could afford to hire an armored car as a taxi. That would be pretty good camouflage.



I understand that you're comparing that with the situation in this thread's OP. And this is a good example to use if you're frustrated with someone when talking about Ferguson. But the Constitutional guarantees of due process which are supposed to allow us to have police that don't do the summary execution thing, are important all the time.

As for hating the cops, we remember when police departments were more likely to hire guys who could actually read and understand the Constitution, and then make them do it. Most of us (the anarchists here are vocal, but a minority nonetheless) want to get the federal government out of the business of micromismanaging local police so we can once again have say in how they're run.

I am just frustrated that there are a lot of cases that is probably more worthwhile where a guy/girl was just killed by police for almost no apparent reason. The victims committed no crime at the time of execution and/or had no APB out for them.. and they get no attention at all. They might get a minor mention on local news.

[Christian Liberty]

I am just frustrated that there are a lot of cases that is probably more worthwhile where a guy/girl was just killed by police for almost no apparent reason. The victims committed no crime at the time of execution and/or had no APB out for them.. and they get no attention at all. They might get a minor mention on local news.

That's intentional, you know.

The key element to me regarding Brown is not whether he's a thief. Thievery in and of itself would justify the police stop, but not the shooting. That said, the fact that the crime was theft does mean that Wilson was not the INITIAL aggressor, and thus did have the right to defend himself against any attempts at harming him. (By contrast, a cop who enforces a law against a victimless "crime" is the aggressor and thus does NOT have any right to defend himself against "attack", however logistically or even morally inadvisible such an attack might be.)

My only question is, did Brown threaten Wilson's life? If he did in fact reach for the gun, I'd say the answer is yes.

And if that's the case, going against my political gut reactions though it may, I can't say Wilson was unjustified. I don't see how I can. Part of me wants to, just because I dislike police so much, but I still can't.

Even if Wilson was justified, so many others are not.

[Mani]

So I guess Obama didn't feel this could have been his family member?


No Al Sharpton?

no protests for Jones?

[Weston White]

My only question is, did Brown threaten Wilson's life? If he did in fact reach for the gun, I'd say the answer is yes.

And if that's the case, going against my political gut reactions though it may, I can't say Wilson was unjustified. I don't see how I can. Part of me wants to, just because I dislike police so much, but I still can't.

Even if Wilson was justified, so many others are not.

Wilson’s own testimony provides that he instantly and senselessly escalated the situation by threatening to shoot Brown if he did not back away from him—clearly an unlawful order to give, clearly nonsensical in logic.

Everything else aside, Wilson made a direct threat to a seemingly unarmed man that he was initiating solo contact with; and in return Brown, upon realizing that Wilson was unholstering his firearm to likely carry out that terroristic threat that he had just made to him (possibly in consequence of Brown expectedly becoming agitated and retorting with juvenile name calling and challenges to carry out that very threat), had reacted by attempting to disarm Wilson of that very means to instantly kill him and in the process likely struck Wilson once or twice on the face or body. A reasonable reaction to be expected from anybody possessing a will to live.

[jmdrake]

I don't sympathize with brown just because he committed a crime and was walking on the middle of the street like an idiot, thus attracting attention.

This guy will probably not get a peep or a wimper.

And thus we get Mike Brown coverage 24/7. The media wants people to focus on the unsympathetic cases. No riots for Miriam Carey. No riots for they guy that was murdered by police in Walmart for checking out a Walmart airsoft gun. No riots for the 12 year old shot by cops on the playground. No riots for Kelly Thomas. No riots for Baby Bou.

[jmdrake]

That's intentional, you know.

The key element to me regarding Brown is not whether he's a thief. Thievery in and of itself would justify the police stop, but not the shooting. That said, the fact that the crime was theft does mean that Wilson was not the INITIAL aggressor, and thus did have the right to defend himself against any attempts at harming him. (By contrast, a cop who enforces a law against a victimless "crime" is the aggressor and thus does NOT have any right to defend himself against "attack", however logistically or even morally inadvisible such an attack might be.)

My only question is, did Brown threaten Wilson's life? If he did in fact reach for the gun, I'd say the answer is yes.

And if that's the case, going against my political gut reactions though it may, I can't say Wilson was unjustified. I don't see how I can. Part of me wants to, just because I dislike police so much, but I still can't.

Even if Wilson was justified, so many others are not.

Let's see. Say if you were minding your own business, a cop started beating you for no reason, said "I'm going to shoot you", then pulled out his gun. Would you reach for the gun or would you passively stand their waiting to get shot? Now I'm not saying that is precisely what happened in the Mike Brown shooting. But that's one version of it. So the question of "Did Mike Brown reach for the gun" doesn't settle it. Now Wilson's story is that Brown attacked him, he (Wilson) pulled out his gun, then Brown reached for the gun. In no account did Brown reach for a holstered gun. Wilson managed to shoot Brown in the hand. Brown ran away. At that point was Wilson's life in danger? No. He could have called for backup and followed Brown from a distance. Wilson stated that when he was in the car he couldn't get to his police flashlight. But why didn't he consider that option once Brown had run away? Something else to consider. Wilson defenders (and I'm not calling you one) are all over the fact that the autopsy showed Brown was not shot in the back. But that doesn't mean that Wilson never shot at Brown's back.

[Anti Federalist]

Do I like cops? No. I don't. I don't try to instigate or give them an excuse to blast me away. But you have to admit that you will need cops sometimes.

I've been around for over half a century.

I have, in all that time, never called a cop for anything.

The only interaction that I have had were instigated at someone else's request, usually just to take notes after the fact of an incident or were uninvited.

[Anti Federalist]

Let's see. Say if you were minding your own business, a cop started beating you for no reason, said "I'm going to shoot you", then pulled out his gun. Would you reach for the gun or would you passively stand their waiting to get shot? Now I'm not saying that is precisely what happened in the Mike Brown shooting. But that's one version of it. So the question of "Did Mike Brown reach for the gun" doesn't settle it. Now Wilson's story is that Brown attacked him, he (Wilson) pulled out his gun, then Brown reached for the gun. In no account did Brown reach for a holstered gun. Wilson managed to shoot Brown in the hand. Brown ran away. At that point was Wilson's life in danger? No. He could have called for backup and followed Brown from a distance. Wilson stated that when he was in the car he couldn't get to his police flashlight. But why didn't he consider that option once Brown had run away? Something else to consider. Wilson defenders (and I'm not calling you one) are all over the fact that the autopsy showed Brown was not shot in the back. But that doesn't mean that Wilson never shot at Brown's back.

Good point.

[specsaregood]

I've been around for over half a century.
I have, in all that time, never called a cop for anything.


I called them once, when I awoke to find 6 fire extinguishers from the local elementary school discharged and on the ground on the sidewalk in front of my house. called them to have them dispose of them more than anything else. didn't want to put those in my recycle or trashcans, that's for sure.

[acptulsa]

I am just frustrated that there are a lot of cases that is probably more worthwhile where a guy/girl was just killed by police for almost no apparent reason. The victims committed no crime at the time of execution and/or had no APB out for them.. and they get no attention at all. They might get a minor mention on local news.

The mainstream media won't do it right. They're being paid--well paid--to redefine the debate and conceal the real problems.

If you want Wayne A. Jones to get attention, you're going to have to publicize him yourself.

Why do you think we come here, man? We're here to get the truth--to figure out what the truth is--and to spread it.

[FloralScent]

And thus we get Mike Brown coverage 24/7. The media wants people to focus on the unsympathetic cases. No riots for Miriam Carey. No riots for they guy that was murdered by police in Walmart for checking out a Walmart airsoft gun. No riots for the 12 year old shot by cops on the playground. No riots for Kelly Thomas. No riots for Baby Bou.

I agree, it's being hyped for maximum divisiveness.

[JK/SEA]

I agree, it's being hyped for maximum divisiveness.


i disagree.

its well established that the police are out of control, and its getting worse. I for one think this rhubarb in Ferguson is giving attention paid to the police state that is getting traction in this country. So, now Ferguson happens. Attention to this police bullshit is getting traction thanks to M. Brown. Yeah, i know, racist this and racist that, but we are all benefiting from the media focus. Its now getting into the feeble minds of the sheep, black or white, over police overstep.. I see zero negatives in this regards. We should all be riding on the coattails of this Brown issue.

[acptulsa]

i disagree.

its well established that the police are out of control, and its getting worse. I for one think this rhubarb in Ferguson is giving attention paid to the police state that is getting traction in this country. So, now Ferguson happens. Attention to this police bullshit is getting traction thanks to M. Brown. Yeah, i know, racist this and racist that, but we are all benefiting from the media focus. Its now getting into the feeble minds of the sheep, black or white, over police overstep.. I see zero negatives in this regards. We should all be riding on the coattails of this Brown issue.

Yes, but we also need to be sifting the racial bull out of it and the 'I don't like that obnoxious idiot Brown' out of it by comparing and contrasting it to other incidents. Which not only helps move the conversation to principled ground, but demonstrates that this is no isolated incident.

It is being 'hyped for maximum divisiveness'. But whether that tactic is successful or not depends on us.

[libertyjam]

He believed he was fighting for their freedom. This is how they "repaid" him. -Via Filming Cops
http://filmingcops.com/cop-climbs-on-top-of-homeless-veteran-who-was-sleeping-and-pounds-his-face-in-tases-him/

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1661197_775098682525229_3102722078203062902_n.jpg? oh=844d5c4de6635e123befc9418fc11f3b&oe=550ECA52&__gda__=1423153964_1d16df34796d66ee8bc102f72fe6cc7 f

MANTECA — The raw body cam footage of a police officer who beat a non-aggressive, sleeping homeless man has surfaced online, causing outrage at and criticism of the Manteca Police Department.
The Manteca Police released the footage last Thursday.
RELATED: 80-Yr-Old Veteran With Cancer Brutally Beaten by Cops, Multiple Ribs Broken, for “Refusing Orders” He Couldn’t Hear (He’s Deaf) (http://filmingcops.com/80-yr-old-army-veteran-who-survived-cancer-now-beaten-to-a-pulp-by-cops-ribs-broken/) They claim that the beating of the homeless man was “justified,” despite the fact that the man was sound asleep when the cop first began initiating violent force.
Robert Olvera, 48, is a veteran who became homeless due to financial difficulties in a troubled economy and had to find a place to sleep at night.
He says he was brutally beaten and tased by the officer for no reason.
Olvera was sound asleep behind a car wash facility.
He was not bothering anybody, and the car was facility appeared to be closed already.
Officer Ben Cromwell approached Olvera with his Taser already drawn, pointing it at Olvera’s sleeping body.
Officer Cromwell can be heard on the video screaming “Police! Wake up!” again and again.
Olvera was so deep in sleep that he couldn’t even consciously register what was happening, and clearly did not pose any threat to Officer Cromwell.
Despite no threat of danger, Officer Cromwell appears to use his foot to either kick or step on Olvera.
Olvera then is startled, confused and wakes up. He can be heard groaning in pain and saying something like “Ouch! That hurt!”
That’s when officer Cromwell appears to climb on top of Olvera and begin beating him.
Officer Cromwell yanked Olvera’s arm back so hard that Olvera can be heard complaining that “You’re breaking my arm!”
RELATED: Cops Found “Not Guilty” After Video Shows Them Literally Beating a Homeless Man to Death (Warning: Extremely Graphic Content) (http://filmingcops.com/kelly/)
At one point in the video, Officer Cromwell’s hand can be seen clawing Olvera’s face and gouging his eyes in. After repeatedly beating Olvera, Officer Cromwell then escalates the situation even more and shoots Olvera with his Taser gun.

[PaulConventionWV]

Has this one even been in the WV media in your part of the state?

Hell no. I haven't heard a damned thing.

It's in the eastern panhandle and I'm in the west central part, but it should be all over the place. Sad.

[PaulConventionWV]

I can sympathize for this victim because he didn't really do anything wrong at all.

That's what has me puzzled. Usually, the police will try to make up a cover story, but this time they came out and said they did it because they felt like it. There weren't any excuses, and still people are going to let this go. Why the Mike Brown shooting gets peopled riled up and this doesn't is beyond me. I guess it has to do with the demographics, but you'd think something like Mike Brown would've happened somewhere by now. The whole thing is bizarre.

[PaulConventionWV]

More like he committed a crime 5-10 minutes ago.. and then jaywalked. Brown didn't rob to feed himself because he was hungry or rob to buy medicine for his little baby.. he robbed cigarillos using his large physical stature to do some manhandling. I've been robbed a few times and I do wish ill upon those individuals that robbed me. When you are being robbed, you don't know if you gonna die or get hurt bad.

If I committed a crime, you can bet I will try to be non-conspicious so I don't attract cops. If I was transporting 20-30 pounds of weed or cocaine in my car.. I probably wont run stop signs or make an illegal u-turn that would draw a cop's attention in the first place.

A thug versus psychotic cop. Nope. No symphathy. If it was a law abiding citizen that committed no crimes in the last 10 minutes and got blasted away for jaywalking.. then yes. I have sympathy.

A lot of you guys harbor way too much hate for what looks to be all cops... its kinda funny how those protestors are like.. FUCK THE POLICE... then some of the protesters get run over by a car.. who you think the protesters are gonna call? Ghost busters? No, 911. Some cops and ambulance will show up. Obviously the ambulance won't go there by themselves, especially into an antsy crowd. They will have a police escort.

My house got burglarize? Oh, let me call the cops so there is a record and a report so I can submit the information to insurance. Oh, a hooker's body is on my property? Let me call the cops. Don't bullshit me and tell me you won't call the cops under many circumstances that warrants it.

Do I like cops? No. I don't. I don't try to instigate or give them an excuse to blast me away. But you have to admit that you will need cops sometimes.

Did any of those protesters call 911? No? Then what the hell are you talking about? And no, I NEVER call the cops. Don't even try to test me because the answer is no.

[FloralScent]

That's what has me puzzled. Usually, the police will try to make up a cover story, but this time they came out and said they did it because they felt like it. There weren't any excuses, and still people are going to let this go. Why the Mike Brown shooting gets peopled riled up and this doesn't is beyond me. I guess it has to do with the demographics, but you'd think something like Mike Brown would've happened somewhere by now. The whole thing is bizarre.

The people are being told what gets them riled up and what doesn't.

[PaulConventionWV]

That's intentional, you know.

The key element to me regarding Brown is not whether he's a thief. Thievery in and of itself would justify the police stop, but not the shooting. That said, the fact that the crime was theft does mean that Wilson was not the INITIAL aggressor, and thus did have the right to defend himself against any attempts at harming him. (By contrast, a cop who enforces a law against a victimless "crime" is the aggressor and thus does NOT have any right to defend himself against "attack", however logistically or even morally inadvisible such an attack might be.)

My only question is, did Brown threaten Wilson's life? If he did in fact reach for the gun, I'd say the answer is yes.

And if that's the case, going against my political gut reactions though it may, I can't say Wilson was unjustified. I don't see how I can. Part of me wants to, just because I dislike police so much, but I still can't.

Even if Wilson was justified, so many others are not.

Except Wilson didn't even know about the theft when he stopped Michael.

Ahhh, fuck it. I'm done trying to convince people that the Mike Brown shooting was just as bad as any other. It doesn't matter if he was a thug or not.

Just... never mind.

[PaulConventionWV]

And thus we get Mike Brown coverage 24/7. The media wants people to focus on the unsympathetic cases. No riots for Miriam Carey. No riots for they guy that was murdered by police in Walmart for checking out a Walmart airsoft gun. No riots for the 12 year old shot by cops on the playground. No riots for Kelly Thomas. No riots for Baby Bou.

I wish people would just stop caring about the "thugh-or-no-thug" aspect of these shootings. It's really of no consequence whether they were bad people or not. The cops are just as out of control regardless of who gets shot. That much is clear.

[PaulConventionWV]

If I could call an ambulance without inviting the police along, you're damn right I would. They may be there when the ambulance gets there, but that doesn't mean they're needed.

[maybemaybenot]

Hey OP, he also stabbed an officer with a knife. Your headline is silly.

[PaulConventionWV]

i disagree.

its well established that the police are out of control, and its getting worse. I for one think this rhubarb in Ferguson is giving attention paid to the police state that is getting traction in this country. So, now Ferguson happens. Attention to this police bullshit is getting traction thanks to M. Brown. Yeah, i know, racist this and racist that, but we are all benefiting from the media focus. Its now getting into the feeble minds of the sheep, black or white, over police overstep.. I see zero negatives in this regards. We should all be riding on the coattails of this Brown issue.

You have got to be kidding me. You just gloss over all the "racist this and racist that"?

How is that not relevant? There's clearly an agenda, which you seem to recognize but don't fully understand. This isn't helping our cause in the minds of people who don't think like us, and that's the problem. Most people see the shooting as justified and see it as some kind of rare controversy, when really, it's very common.

The racism line is not insignificant. The media is clearly being divisive, and believe you me, they know what they're doing. This isn't something they just decided to do haphazardly. The dialogue they're creating is NOT helping our cause. It's helping self-defense advocates identify with the police because "their job is so dangerous and they have to make life or death decisions in a split second, blah blah blah blah blah". If it wasn't working, they wouldn't be doing it.

[PaulConventionWV]

Hey OP, he also stabbed an officer with a knife. Your headline is silly.

Hey, no he didn't.

[maybemaybenot]

Hey, no he didn't.

Are you saying you don't believe the officers? I'm wondering what you mean by this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2613395/Mentally-ill-man-50-fatally-shot-23-times-five-police-officers-stabbed-cop-autopsy-reveals.html http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/28/us-usa-west-virginia-shooting-idUSKBN0GS2TV20140828

[GunnyFreedom]

i disagree.

its well established that the police are out of control, and its getting worse. I for one think this rhubarb in Ferguson is giving attention paid to the police state that is getting traction in this country. So, now Ferguson happens. Attention to this police bullshit is getting traction thanks to M. Brown. Yeah, i know, racist this and racist that, but we are all benefiting from the media focus. Its now getting into the feeble minds of the sheep, black or white, over police overstep.. I see zero negatives in this regards. We should all be riding on the coattails of this Brown issue.

I disagree with you. I am still out in the 'ordinary' community, and a interact with black people all. the. time. They have never heard of Miriam Carey, Wayne Jones, Akai Gurley. Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin are the only events THEY are being allowed to hear about, too. They only promote the divisive ones on purpose. It one of the most well-documented paths to fascism there is.

[maybemaybenot]

I disagree with you. I am still out in the 'ordinary' community, and a interact with black people all. the. time. They have never heard of Miriam Carey, Wayne Jones, Akai Gurley. Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin are the only events THEY are being allowed to hear about, too. They only promote the divisive ones on purpose. It one of the most well-documented paths to fascism there is.

Well the media thrives on controversy.

[GunnyFreedom]

Except Wilson didn't even know about the theft when he stopped Michael.

Ahhh, fuck it. I'm done trying to convince people that the Mike Brown shooting was just as bad as any other. It doesn't matter if he was a thug or not.

Just... never mind.

Like hell it doesn't matter. if Michael Brown wasn't a thug, we'd have never heard about this in the news. They promote the thugs and suppress the innocent...on purpose. I will fight against that purpose whether you think it's politically correct or not.

[Ender]

Like hell it doesn't matter. if Michael Brown wasn't a thug, we'd have never heard about this in the news. They promote the thugs and suppress the innocent...on purpose. I will fight against that purpose whether you think it's politically correct or not.

Disagree.

Brown was promoted as a thug on purpose. There is nothing but the film and even the owner was not going to call the police. We do not know the reasons or situation behind it. The same thing happened with Trayvon- he was promoted as a thug to save the Florida police and Zimmerman. Brown is promoted as a thug to save the Ferguson po-pos.

[maybemaybenot]

Except Wilson didn't even know about the theft when he stopped Michael.

Ahhh, fuck it. I'm done trying to convince people that the Mike Brown shooting was just as bad as any other. It doesn't matter if he was a thug or not.

Just... never mind.

Eyewitnesses say Brown attacked first, and gun shot residue tends to show that the gunshot was close to Brown's hand, corroborating Wilson's claim that Brown reached for the gun. Further, even though Wilson didn't suspect him of the robbery, Brown must have suspected that he was suspected of the robbery, because he was in fact just leaving the crime scene, and then attacked a police officer. Further, blood splatter shows a line of 25 ft of blood starting at the police car, BUT, Brown's body was 8 ft away from the police car, 17 ft from the end of the blood trail itself. Thus, since Brown was first shot, he walked/ran/traveled/whatever 25 ft, then turned back around in the direction of the car, before dying 8 ft in front of the car. In other words, he kept approaching Wilson after being shot, and after having started the violent confrontation to begin with. Do you have an alternative explanation for the blood trail and the location of Brown's body?

[GunnyFreedom]

Disagree.

Brown was promoted as a thug on purpose. There is nothing but the film and even the owner was not going to call the police. We do not know the reasons or situation behind it. The same thing happened with Trayvon- he was promoted as a thug to save the Florida police and Zimmerman. Brown is promoted as a thug to save the Ferguson po-pos.

LOL I have met strong arm robbers. They are thugs. they are thugs even when they aren't strong arm robbing. lmao. If this guy wasn't a thug, he would never have made it onto the news cycles like this.

[GunnyFreedom]

Dude is gonna do a strong-arm robbery on a box of cigars, carry the box in the wide open and walk down the middle of the street right in front of a cop holding the box out for all the world to see and you are gonna tell me he wasn't a thug. lmao seriously?

[Ender]

LOL I have met strong arm robbers. They are thugs. they are thugs even when they aren't strong arm robbing. lmao. If this guy wasn't a thug, he would never have made it onto the news cycles like this.

Again- I disagree.

He was promoted as a thug to save the cops ass.

Was Wilson perfect? No. Did he warrant an execution? No.

[GunnyFreedom]

Again- I disagree.

He was promoted as a thug to save the cops ass.

Was Wilson perfect? No. Did he warrant an execution? No.

Nobody here is saying Brown should have been executed. That's just something your imagination is creating to justify an illogical position. Face it, some people are just bad. Michael Brown was a bad guy. That doesn't justify his murder, nor does it justify the thousand other cases of police abuse around the country. But trying to make him out to be a sweet angel-poo isn't helping, it's only making us look stupid and lose credibility.

[maybemaybenot]

Again- I disagree.

He was promoted as a thug to save the cops ass.

Was Wilson perfect? No. Did he warrant an execution? No.

"Promoted as a thug"??? He strong arms a store, then within minutes attacks an officer, and you don't see this as relevant to the officer's response? We're supposed to pretend that the robbery has nothing to do with Brown attacking an officer who approached him minutes later? Or we're supposed to pretend that Brown attacking Wilson isn't relevant to Wilson's subsequent acts of violence. This isn't promotion, this is the reality of what happened that day. Whether you want to call him a thug, a criminal, an animal, a fat piece of turd who attacks ppl, it doesn't matter. He demonstrated how he was all of these things in the last few minutes before he died, its relevant/

[Ender]

Nobody here is saying Brown should have been executed. That's just something your imagination is creating to justify an illogical position. Face it, some people are just bad. Michael Brown was a bad guy. That doesn't justify his murder, nor does it justify the thousand other cases of police abuse around the country. But trying to make him out to be a sweet angel-poo isn't helping, it's only making us look stupid and lose credibility.

Never said he was an angel- I am saying he was made out as a thug to justify the killing.

[Ender]

"Promoted as a thug"??? He strong arms a store, then within minutes attacks an officer, and you don't see this as relevant to the officer's response? We're supposed to pretend that the robbery has nothing to do with Brown attacking an officer who approached him minutes later? Or we're supposed to pretend that Brown attacking Wilson isn't relevant to Wilson's subsequent acts of violence. This isn't promotion, this is the reality of what happened that day. Whether you want to call him a thug, a criminal, an animal, a fat piece of turd who attacks ppl, it doesn't matter. He demonstrated how he was all of these things in the last few minutes before he died, its relevant/

So- you believe everything the MSM propagates? Go for it.

[GunnyFreedom]

Never said he was an angel- I am saying he was made out as a thug to justify the killing.

If you steal something and you are not a thug, you don't jaywalk right in front of a f'n cop showing him the box of cigars you just stole.

[GunnyFreedom]

I dunno Ender, maybe you've never done anything shady in your entire life, but when a normal person does something the law might not like we lay low, and try not to attract police attention. Someone who breaks the law and then flaunts it right in front of a cop, they aren't trying to get away with it, they are trying to start trouble. The only way I can imagine that not being common sense, is if you have never done anything shady in your life.

[Anti Federalist]

Do you have an alternative explanation for the blood trail and the location of Brown's body?

Yes, conflicting orders being barked out by an overheated cop, already having shot numerous times.

It's happened many times before.

Cops routinely and regularly "test-a-lie" in cases like this, so I'm inclined to not believe a word of what they say.

jmdrake make great point as well, just because Brown wasn't hit in the back doesn't mean that Wilson didn't try to shoot him in the back.

Furthermore, as I pointed out to another poster, the response did not occur in a vacuum, there is long and sordid and well documented history in Ferguson and surrounding towns, where cops have been routinely and systematically shaking down people, making arrests for minor offenses, harassing and issuing tickets, in order to fund the town government.

[Ender]

I dunno Ender, maybe you've never done anything shady in your entire life, but when a normal person does something the law might not like we lay low, and try not to attract police attention. Someone who breaks the law and then flaunts it right in front of a cop, they aren't trying to get away with it, they are trying to start trouble. The only way I can imagine that not being common sense, is if you have never done anything shady in your life.

Will Grigg's take on the situation makes sense to me:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/did-michael-brown-steal-cigars-or-pay-for-them/


Did Michael Brown Steal Cigars — Or Pay For Them?
William Norman Grigg

If Michael Brown committed a felonious strong-arm robbery at a convenience store just minutes before he was shot, why didn’t anybody from the store call 911? The report was made by a customer following what appeared to be an altercation between the 6’4″ Brown and a much smaller store employee.

According to the store’s owner, police didn’t issue a subpoena for the store’s surveillance video until last Friday — the day it was provided to the media by police officials, along with the name of Officer Darren Wilson, who fatally shot Brown a few minutes after the incident at the store. Wilson was not aware of the alleged robbery, and he was not pursuing Brown as a suspect. The fatal encounter began when Wilson rebuked Brown and his friend, Dorian Johnson, for jaywalking.

An excerpt of the security video shot from a different angle shows the figure identified as Brown at a check-out counter paying for the cigars before the apparent confrontation with the store clerk.

It’s not clear why the clerk confronted Brown, and why the much larger 18-year-old shoved the clerk, if no robbery was involved. The initial police report claimed that an unnamed “patron” had contacted police to report a “stealing in progress.” In a subsequent police interview, the witness claimed that Brown had reached over the counter and grabbed several packages of Swisher Sweets cigars and tried to leave without paying them. In the video above Brown can be seen reaching across the counter — but it appears that money is left on the counter, and accepted by the clerk, before Brown calmly walks toward the exit.

According to the police report, the cigars — whether stolen or paid for — were not recovered. Despite the fact that Dorian Johnson, who witnessed the shooting, was identified in that report as a second suspect, he has not been charged.

If the cigars were paid for, Brown may have been a bully (at least on this occasion), but he wasn’t a thief. One possibility is that the altercation occurred because the clerk “carded” the 18-year-old, who was of legal age to buy tobacco products in Missouri.

[Ender]

If you steal something and you are not a thug, you don't jaywalk right in front of a f'n cop showing him the box of cigars you just stole.

Exactly my point.

[pcosmar]

I've been around for over half a century.

I have, in all that time, never called a cop for anything.

The only interaction that I have had were instigated at someone else's request, usually just to take notes after the fact of an incident or were uninvited.

I called them to come and get me once..

but that was very different.

[GunnyFreedom]

When I was 20, on leave, and going with a bunch of friends to pick up some illicit shine from a friend of a friend &c, On the way home with a one-layer short case of quart jars; when we rolled beside a cop at a light never once did it seriously occur to me to pick up one of those jars and toast the cop as the light turned green. If I had done so, it would have been in anticipation of having a bad day.

Brown was a bad guy. What ultimately happened was unjust, but he unambiguously shared in the responsibility for what went down. And that's the point.

The media only plays up the guilty and ignores the innocent.

Trying to make the guilty, innocent, is not helpful to the hundreds of innocents. it only makes all of THEM look bad for being innocent.

Playing the game they are creating can and will only help them. No matter how much we can point out that Brown's killing was unjust, by perpetuating it as a case, you help nobody but the fascists who are driving the narrative. That is part of the narrative they are trying to create. Create the division to rip people apart over a glorified rorschach blot, and ridicule anybody that talks about Miriam Cary and the Congressional Ovation.

At this point in their game, even if we go all out to assume that Brown was just a robotic patsy that played a part in a show, who intentionally did nothing wrong at all. Simply by perpetuating the case on EITHER side, pro or anti whomever, it plays into their divisive narrative. What theye want is for people to obsess over the rorschach blot and ignore the Rembrandt right beside of it. Nobody agrees on what the rorschach blot is. Everybody agrees on what the Rembrandt is. And that's the point.

[GunnyFreedom]

The more you fight, on either 'side' of the Michael Brown case, it cannot convince anyone of any thing, it can only drive people apart. This is so because every individual exists in a completely different 'reality' with respect to the Brown event. This is by design. That is why theye promote this event and suppress others.

[libertyjam]

Eyewitnesses say Brown attacked first, and gun shot residue tends to show that the gunshot was close to Brown's hand, corroborating Wilson's claim that Brown reached for the gun. Further, even though Wilson didn't suspect him of the robbery, Brown must have suspected that he was suspected of the robbery, because he was in fact just leaving the crime scene, and then attacked a police officer. Further, blood splatter shows a line of 25 ft of blood starting at the police car, BUT, Brown's body was 8 ft away from the police car, 17 ft from the end of the blood trail itself. Thus, since Brown was first shot, he walked/ran/traveled/whatever 25 ft, then turned back around in the direction of the car, before dying 8 ft in front of the car. In other words, he kept approaching Wilson after being shot, and after having started the violent confrontation to begin with. Do you have an alternative explanation for the blood trail and the location of Brown's body?



Thu Nov 20, 2014 at 08:31 PM PST
Video: Police lied. Mike Brown was killed 148 feet away from Darren Wilson's SUV (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/20/1346374/-BREAKING-VIDEO-Police-Lied-Mike-Brown-was-killed-148-feet-away-from-Darren-Wilson-s-SUV)

[libertyjam]

Are you saying you don't believe the officers? I'm wondering what you mean by this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2613395/Mentally-ill-man-50-fatally-shot-23-times-five-police-officers-stabbed-cop-autopsy-reveals.html http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/28/us-usa-west-virginia-shooting-idUSKBN0GS2TV20140828





Judge states in her Order for Summary Judgement “NO KNIFE WAS EVER PRODUCED”

Officer allegedly stabbed stated, in fact, “He was not stabbed” on the video and Medical file refutes any treatment for cuts/stabbing.


Instead of cuffing Wayne, they continued to beat him and – someone yelled that he saw a knife[sic]; yet in the Police reports, some officers said that they didn’t see a knife and others couldnt agree on what size the knife was. Furthermore – miraculously, multiple knives turned up on the scene after the fact and to date no knife has been physically produced.

Furthermore – miraculously, multiple knives turned up on the scene after the fact and to date no knife has been physically produced.


Furthermore – miraculously, multiple knives turned up on the scene after the fact and to date no knife has been physically produced.