Michèle Flournoy , def sec frontrunner, supports involuntary servitude

[cindy25]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micheile-flournoy/national-service-and-nati_b_5790662.html


National service also has the potential to create a common experience of service that unites Americans from different geographic, socioeconomic and political backgrounds, downplaying our differences and bringing to the fore the values, responsibilities and obligations we share as citizens of the oldest constitutional democracy in the world. If every young American were expected to dedicate a year of their lives to serving the country in some capacity, imagine how powerful that common experience would be to knit them together as a generation and as the future leaders of a more truly United States of America.

[amy31416]

They can go screw themselves.

A plumber or electrician serves this country far more than the military (generally) does.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

I was forced to mix with my fellow citizens for 12 years, isn't that enough?

[Occam's Banana]

If every young American were expected required to dedicate a year of their lives to serving forcibly indentured to the country in some capacity, imagine how powerful that common experience would be to knit them together as a generation and as the future leaders of of indoctrinated slaves in a more truly United States of America.

FIFY

[XNavyNuke]

... responsibilities and obligations we share as citizens of the oldest constitutional democracy in the world.

And here I thought we were (at one point) a constitutional republic. Damn history books.

XNN

[acptulsa]

If every young American were expected to dedicate a year of their lives to serving the country in some capacity, imagine how powerful that common experience would be to knit them together as a generation and as the future leaders of a more truly United States of America.

Because that worked out so well for us in 1968.

[Deborah K]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micheile-flournoy/national-service-and-nati_b_5790662.html


National service also has the potential to create a common experience of service that unites Americans from different geographic, socioeconomic and political backgrounds, downplaying our differences and bringing to the fore the values, responsibilities and obligations we share as citizens of the oldest constitutional democracy in the world. If every young American were expected to dedicate a year of their lives to serving the country in some capacity, imagine how powerful that common experience would be to knit them together as a generation and as the future leaders of a more truly United States of America.

A classic example of collectivism.

[willwash]

This post won't win me many +reps, but here's my 2c. I agree that there is no basis in our constitution for mandatory military service for all.

However, I also understand why many conservatives push for one. It does bring self-discipline to some people who, otherwise, would never attain it. A disciplined population is a positive national resource, just as an undisciplined one is a negative resource. Therefore military service is to be encouraged, though not compelled.

I, for one, do not believe everyone should have the right to vote. Universal suffrage is one of our biggest weaknesses and leads to the excesses of democratic largesse and pandering to the idiot masses. While I do not believe suffrage should be restricted along racial or gender lines, I do believe the right to vote, unlike that to free speech or property ownership etc., should be earned, not held to be innate.

With that in mind, I propose that voting should be restricted to adults who satisfy one or more of the following conditions:

-Property owner, net worth $200,000+ -->has a significant stake in the outcome and cannot be denied a voice in that outcome
or
-Passes *basic* (middle school or so level) poll literacy test-->no property stake in the outcome but at least understands at a basic level the process s/he is participating in
or
-Has served honorably (and voluntarily) in the military for three years-->shows a commitment to service and a willingness to sacrifice. Has earned the right to participate fully in their government despite other considerations.

[jbauer]

This post won't win me many +reps, but here's my 2c. I agree that there is no basis in our constitution for mandatory military service for all.

However, I also understand why many conservatives push for one. It does bring self-discipline to some people who, otherwise, would never attain it. A disciplined population is a positive national resource, just as an undisciplined one is a negative resource. Therefore military service is to be encouraged, though not compelled.

I, for one, do not believe everyone should have the right to vote. Universal suffrage is one of our biggest weaknesses and leads to the excesses of democratic largesse and pandering to the idiot masses. While I do not believe suffrage should be restricted along racial or gender lines, I do believe the right to vote, unlike that to free speech or property ownership etc., should be earned, not held to be innate.

With that in mind, I propose that voting should be restricted to adults who satisfy one or more of the following conditions:

-Property owner, net worth $200,000+ -->has a significant stake in the outcome and cannot be denied a voice in that outcome
or
-Passes *basic* (middle school or so level) poll literacy test-->no property stake in the outcome but at least understands at a basic level the process s/he is participating in
or
-Has served honorably (and voluntarily) in the military for three years-->shows a commitment to service and a willingness to sacrifice. Has earned the right to participate fully in their government despite other considerations.

Lol. We can't even get it to the point you have to show an ID to prove who you are without being called racist.

[luctor-et-emergo]

I am opposed to slavery, therefore I am opposed to involuntary servitude. I don't think I need to use any more words to explain what this means.

[Anti Federalist]

Good grief, you got them for 12 years in the indoctrination camps, isn't that enough?

[amy31416]

This post won't win me many +reps, but here's my 2c. I agree that there is no basis in our constitution for mandatory military service for all.

However, I also understand why many conservatives push for one. It does bring self-discipline to some people who, otherwise, would never attain it. A disciplined population is a positive national resource, just as an undisciplined one is a negative resource. Therefore military service is to be encouraged, though not compelled.

I, for one, do not believe everyone should have the right to vote. Universal suffrage is one of our biggest weaknesses and leads to the excesses of democratic largesse and pandering to the idiot masses. While I do not believe suffrage should be restricted along racial or gender lines, I do believe the right to vote, unlike that to free speech or property ownership etc., should be earned, not held to be innate.

With that in mind, I propose that voting should be restricted to adults who satisfy one or more of the following conditions:

-Property owner, net worth $200,000+ -->has a significant stake in the outcome and cannot be denied a voice in that outcome
or
-Passes *basic* (middle school or so level) poll literacy test-->no property stake in the outcome but at least understands at a basic level the process s/he is participating in
or
-Has served honorably (and voluntarily) in the military for three years-->shows a commitment to service and a willingness to sacrifice. Has earned the right to participate fully in their government despite other considerations.

Do you have children? Would you want them to serve in Afghanistan/Iraq/wherever and come back a damaged human being who's killed or been maimed--or worse, in a coffin? Will you pay for it?

My father and many others in my family served in the military--it crushes your soul. And while crushing your soul may give a person a certain degree of discipline (though many men come back and end up beating the shit out of their wives and children due to PTSD), shouldn't we be trying to get to a better place?

There are better methods to teach people discipline, much better.

[oyarde]

During WW1 The All American Division ( 82nd ) which had men from every state , suffered 8077 casualties . Sounds like fun huh ? I dunno who the hell Michele Flournoy is , but I cannot imagine this person has ever spent time in a wet ditch wondering what tomorrow may bring .

[Lucille]

She's a prog. Slavers gonna slave.

[Ronin Truth]

Ron Paul: [The draft] should be called slavery, involuntary servitude.

Howard Phillips: It violates the 13th amendment, which prohibits involuntary servitude.

Ron Paul: Yeah, and the argument that I've always resented the most was, if you're 18 year old you owe it to your country. I've always wondered why the guy who's 58 and had a million bucks and hadn't served, why doesn't he owe more to this country, maybe he should be on the frontline. 18 year old didn't get anything yet, and he has to go and risk his life.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Has anyone vetted this parasite planted within the Washington DC beltway? Boy is she a work of an establishment cabal, where the money is... leech for government theft.

If you have some time... vetting her, she is garbage for America form beginning to end.

[Lucille]

She's not interested. The warmonger progs in the red jerseys must be crushed.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/11/25/exclusive_flournoy_drops_out_of_race_to_be_next_se cretary_of_defense


Michèle Flournoy, widely seen as the front-runner to replace Chuck Hagel as the next secretary of defense, abruptly took herself out of the running for the job Tuesday, complicating what will be one of the most important personnel decisions of President Barack Obama's second term.
[...]
Flournoy's decision means that only one of the three widely rumored names for the post remains under consideration: Ashton Carter, the former deputy secretary of defense. When Hagel was ousted Monday, speculation had immediately turned to Flournoy, Carter, and Democratic Sen. Jack Reed of Rhode Island, a former Army Ranger. But Reed took himself out of the running shortly after Hagel announced his resignation.

The decision by both Flournoy and Reed to pre-emptively turn down the job underscores the immense challenges facing the next secretary of defense and raised immediate questions about whether senior officials and lawmakers were scared off by the prospect of taking a post that would require dealing with a White House that has centralized much of the policymaking and strategic decisions in the West Wing. Both of Hagel's predecessors, Bob Gates and Leon Panetta, complained about administration meddling and overreach in their respective memoirs. "Despite everyone being 'nice' to me, getting anything consequential done was so damnably difficult," wrote Gates.

[Christian Liberty]

This post won't win me many +reps, but here's my 2c. I agree that there is no basis in our constitution for mandatory military service for all.

However, I also understand why many conservatives push for one. It does bring self-discipline to some people who, otherwise, would never attain it. A disciplined population is a positive national resource, just as an undisciplined one is a negative resource. Therefore military service is to be encouraged, though not compelled.

I, for one, do not believe everyone should have the right to vote. Universal suffrage is one of our biggest weaknesses and leads to the excesses of democratic largesse and pandering to the idiot masses. While I do not believe suffrage should be restricted along racial or gender lines, I do believe the right to vote, unlike that to free speech or property ownership etc., should be earned, not held to be innate.

With that in mind, I propose that voting should be restricted to adults who satisfy one or more of the following conditions:

-Property owner, net worth $200,000+ -->has a significant stake in the outcome and cannot be denied a voice in that outcome
or
-Passes *basic* (middle school or so level) poll literacy test-->no property stake in the outcome but at least understands at a basic level the process s/he is participating in
or
-Has served honorably (and voluntarily) in the military for three years-->shows a commitment to service and a willingness to sacrifice. Has earned the right to participate fully in their government despite other considerations.

I actually think this might not be a terrible idea. Owning property will give one an incentive to make intelligent decisions regarding money, while having served in the military causes one to see how horiffic war is. I don't see why anyone who lacks middle school literacy should be able to vote regardless.

That said, the reason I gave for possibly agreeing with you on the last point isn't the reason you presented. I think people who actually had to go to war are more hesitant to support war. But knowing what I know, I cannot encourage anyone to learn firsthand, even though I didn't ever join.


Do you have children? Would you want them to serve in Afghanistan/Iraq/wherever and come back a damaged human being who's killed or been maimed--or worse, in a coffin? Will you pay for it?

My father and many others in my family served in the military--it crushes your soul. And while crushing your soul may give a person a certain degree of discipline (though many men come back and end up beating the shit out of their wives and children due to PTSD), shouldn't we be trying to get to a better place?

There are better methods to teach people discipline, much better.

Yeah, there's this to. Joining the military is a way of learning how horiffic war is, but it may not be the best way.

A neocon armchair warhawk should probably join if they can't learn any other way. I don't approve but if that's the only way they can learn... at least put your own life on the line rather than expecting everyone else to do so. I was a warhawk who didn't want to join until I was around 15 or so (Until I found Ron Paul). If I were to maintain those views until now, I should have joined and learned first hand. But, I didn't. I was able to learn without doing so. Thanks be to God.