Giuliani Says “White Police Officers Wouldn’t Be There If You Weren’t Killing Each Other.” [Archive]

Anti Federalist

11-24-2014, 11:23 AM

Giuliani Says “White Police Officers Wouldn’t Be There If You Weren’t Killing Each Other.”

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/giuliani-white-police-officers-wouldnt-werent-killing-other/#YytX5Df1SescVIzZ.99

New York City, New York – Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani recently showed his true colors on this week’s Sunday morning edition of NBC’s “Meet The Press”, when he made some highly irresponsible comments about race-relations with police and the upcoming grand jury decision on Darren Wilson.

Speaking to Georgetown professor Michael Eric Dyson, Giuliani diverted the conversation away from police brutality, and on to the subject of “black on black” crime.

“Ninety-three percent of blacks are killed by other blacks. I would like to see the attention paid to that that you are paying to this,” Giuliani said.

However, Dyson held his own against the former mayor, making some very great points before the end of the news segment.

Dyson mentioned that Giuliani was making a “false equivalency” between black on black crime and the protests in Ferguson, Missouri.

Dyson correctly pointed out that the protests have less to do with color, than they do with the lack of accountability that police officers enjoy.

“Black people who kill black people go to jail, White people who are policemen who kill black people do not go to jail,” Dyson said.

When people do not see consequences for their actions, there is a problem.

In many areas, police violence against citizens has actually outpaced violence between citizens. As we reported this week, for the past five years in Utah, more people have been killed by cops than by gang violence, drug dealers, or from child abuse.

I think it would be safe to say that if police statistics were included with Giuliani’s “black on black” crime figures, that the numbers would have been drastically different.

Brian4Liberty

11-24-2014, 11:29 AM

Giuliani diverted the conversation away from police brutality

Shocking!

enhanced_deficit

11-24-2014, 12:08 PM

Well, he is an American hero (http://mediamatters.org/research/2007/02/02/usa-today-hailed-giuliani-as-hero-of-911-omitte/137917).

No diss to this great hero but from what I recall Miriam Carey and her daughter had come to dead stop after making wrong turn near white house when "white police officers" took head shots:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5_JBZVMXfCg/0.jpg

muh_roads

11-24-2014, 12:24 PM

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2092547/pg1

Based on current rates of first incarceration, an estimated 32% of black males will enter State or Federal prison during their lifetime, compared to 17% of Hispanic males and 5.9% of white males.

[link to www.ojp.usdoj.gov (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ojp.usdoj.gov%2Fbjs%2Fcr imoff.htm)]

At midyear 2007 there were 4,618 black male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 black males in the United States, compared to 1,747 Hispanic male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 Hispanic males and 773 white male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 white males.

[link to www.ojp.usdoj.gov (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ojp.usdoj.gov%2Fbjs%2Fpr isons.htm)]

In 2005, Homicide offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites

[link to www.ojp.usdoj.gov (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ojp.usdoj.gov%2Fbjs%2Fho micide%2Frace.htm)]

Lifetime Likelihood of Going to State or Federal Prison
This Special Report presents lifetime chances of going to State or Federal prison by age, sex, race, and Hispanic origin. Using standard demographic lifetable techniques, and assuming that recent incarceration rates remain unchanged, an estimated 1 of every 20 persons (5%) can be expected to serve time in prison during their lifetime. The lifetime chances of a person going to prison are higher for men (9%) than for women (1%) and higher for blacks (16%) and Hispanics (9%) than for whites (2%). At current levels of incarceration newborn black males in this country have a greater than a 1 in 4 chance of going to prison during their lifetimes, while Hispanic males have a 1 in 6 chance, and white males have a 1 in 23 chance of serving time. 3/97 NCJ 160092

[link to www.ojp.usdoj.gov (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ojp.usdoj.gov%2Fbjs%2Fab stract%2Fllgsfp.htm)]

The US Dept. of Justice Website also reports that in England and Wales, blacks are 2% of the population, but 11% of inmates:

[link to www.ojp.usdoj.gov (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ojp.usdoj.gov%2Fbjs%2Fpu b%2Fascii%2Fwalesus.txt)]

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CNN DATA:

[link to money.cnn.com (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fmoney.cnn.com%2Fmagazines%2F moneymag%2Fmoneymag_archive%2F1994%2F06%2F01%2F889 11%2Findex.htm)]

THE FACTS: Blacks, who represent just 12.5% of the U.S. population, account for a disproportionate share of violent crime. Still, the fact remains that whites commit more such crimes -- 54% vs. 45% for blacks, (even though blacks are 12.5% of the population) according to FBI arrest statistics. The numbers also vary widely depending on the crime, with blacks responsible for more murders and robberies (55% and 61% of these crimes, respectively) and whites committing more rapes and aggravated assaults (56% and 60%).

The bottom line: While a white person is far more likely to be victimized by a black than the other way around (21% vs. 7%), the chances are three times as great that a white person will be victimized by another white than by a black.

The exception here is robbery. Whites are held up by blacks 49% of the time and by whites only 37%. Still, though violent crime is predominantly white on white or black on black, it is also true that black criminals commit more crimes against white victims (nearly 1.1 million in 1992) than they do against blacks (just under 1 million).
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[link to www.slate.com (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fid%2F33569%2 Fentry%2F33575%2F)]

As you note, African-Americans have three times the abortion rate of whites. You don't mention, however, that, as Janet Reno's Justice Department flatly states that "blacks are 8 times more likely than whites to commit homicide." Therefore, blacks commit more murders than whites in total as well as per capita.

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[link to blog.washingtonpost.com (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fblog.washingtonpost.com%2Ffa ct-checker%2F2007%2F10%2Fyoung_black_males_headed_for _e_1.html)]

Everybody acknowledges that incarceration rates among young black males are much higher than among whites or Hispanics. An August 2003 Bureau of Justice Statistics analysis shows that 32 percent of black males born in 2001 can expect to spend time in prison over the course of their lifetime. That is up from 13.4 percent in 1974 and 29.4 percent in 1991. By contrast, 17.2 percent of Hispanics and 5.9 percent of whites born in 2001 are likely to end up in prison.

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[link to www.wnd.com (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wnd.com%2Fnews%2Farticle .asp%3FARTICLE_ID%3D57250)]

in "The Color of Crime: Race, Crime and Justice in America," produced by the "right-leaning" New Century Foundation in 2005, using the same FBI and Justice surveys, startling facts emerge:

"Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against other blacks." Forty-five percent of the victims of violent crime by blacks are white folks, 43 percent are black, 10 percent are Hispanic.

Blacks are seven times as likely as people of other races to commit murder, eight times more likely to commit robbery and three times more likely to use a gun in a crime.

"Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit violent crime against a white person than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery." (If decent black folks have trouble hailing a cab, and they do, these numbers may help explain it.)

Black-on-white rape is 115 times more common than the reverse.

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[link to www.city-journal.org (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fwww.city-journal.org%2Fhtml%2Feon2007-04-02hm.html)]

'Though blacks, 24 percent of New York Citys population, committed 68.5 percent of all murders, rapes, robberies, and assaults in the city last year, according to victims and witnesses, they were only 55 percent of all stop-and-frisks.

cajuncocoa

11-24-2014, 12:33 PM

bunklocoempire

11-24-2014, 01:04 PM

John T. Williams?

Jose Guerena Ortiz?

Kelly Thomas?

Michael Brown's blood was what color again? Black? Got it Rudy.

Occam's Banana

11-24-2014, 02:57 PM

My post from another thread:

The Michael Brown case, just as the Trayvon Martin case before this, is not being played out as one of excessive police force against the general population....something we see every day in topics on this board.

It's being played out as excessive force by a white officer on a black victim...the media are playing the race card, deliberately playing emotions to get whites to take the side of the police officer in the case. As I see it, whites and blacks alike are falling for it.

Congrats to Rudy. If you keep playing this as a white vs. black thing, the police can get away with doing what they do, and white Boobus will support their every move.

Intentionally or unintentionally, Dyson is doing exactly the same thing as Giuliani. Notice Dyson's rejoinder to Guiuliani:

“Black people who kill black people go to jail, White people who are policemen who kill black people do not go to jail,” Dyson said.

Now, the last time I checked, white people who kill white people go to jail, too - and policemen who kill anyone typically do NOT go to jail (regardless of the color of the policemen OR the color of their victims). Dyson should have said, "White or black policemen who kill white or black people do not go to jail" - or better yet, just, "Policemen who kill people do not go to jail." Instead, he chose to characterize it as a "race thing" when he could have expressed a much more unifying (and accurate) message free of the taint of racialistic "special pleading."

IOW: Giuliani and Dyson are both playing the "race card" (albeit from different directions) - and as a result, the vast forest of the lack of police accountability in general is ignored in favor of divisively focussing on the racial dimensions of particular trees.

SMDH. This is why we can't have nice, unified across-the-board opposition to unaccountable policing in this country ...

Schifference

11-24-2014, 05:38 PM

I think most black people in Nigeria are killed by other black people.

Dianne

11-24-2014, 06:48 PM

Well, Gouliani was correct.. We have all these government paid rioters ready to protest the shooting of one man by a police officer; when police officers kill people every day of all colors. Black on black crime is 93%, but the Al Sharpton paid peeps don't protest that. Police abuse people of all races, cultures and kill their pets .. the Police are not racists, they are equal opportunity killers. Regardless, we will probably have riots, because President Sharpton/Holder/Obama have paid for them. We will see.

Antischism

11-24-2014, 06:56 PM

I don't think Giuliani understands socioeconomic issues.

jonhowe

11-24-2014, 07:03 PM

Dianne

11-24-2014, 07:19 PM

Yes. They are violent because their genes are coded to create more/darker pigment in their skin.

That's exactly the problem.

It has nothing to do with the fact that generations of fathers have been unjustly targeted for victimless (drug) crimes. Or that identical resumes with 'black sounding' names get significantly fewer replies than resumes with 'white sounding' names. It's because they're black.

Got it, thanks Rudy. How's that reading list going? Do 'they' still hate 'us' for our 'freedom'?

Sigh...... do you believe it's possible they are intentionally manipulated by the government to have 20% unemployment and nothing but time and hate on their minds? Can you imagine sitting around for 30 months, with nothing to do... applying for jobs and getting nowhere? The only way they can make a decent living is by running drugs.... Now Obama took that away from them with his own Mexican cartels. My point, this is an intentional, manipulated effort to stifle black Americans ... Obama is not a black man... he is a Muslim .... He could give a chit less about the blacks in America.... let alone the whites in America ... His loyalty is not towards America at all.

DFF

11-24-2014, 07:23 PM

I can't believe I'm saying this given his history with Ron Paul, but...Giuliani is correct.

Dianne

11-24-2014, 07:25 PM

I can't believe I'm saying this given his history with Ron Paul, but...Giuliani is correct.

I agree.. This is the first statement every made by Giuliani I ever believed.

otherone

11-24-2014, 07:35 PM

Intentionally or unintentionally, Dyson is doing exactly the same thing as Giuliani. Notice Dyson's rejoinder to Guiuliani:

“Black people who kill black people go to jail, White people who are policemen who kill black people do not go to jail,” Dyson said.

Good point.

“Black people who kill black people go to jail, White people who are policemen who kill black people do not go to jail,” Dyson said.

JK/SEA

11-24-2014, 07:37 PM

Stormfront infiltrating RPF?..

say it ain't so...

Occam's Banana

11-24-2014, 07:39 PM

I can't believe I'm saying this given his history with Ron Paul, but...Giuliani is correct.

Given some of the other things you've said around here, I can believe you're saying it ...

69360

11-24-2014, 07:39 PM

invisible

11-24-2014, 07:46 PM

Giuliani is sort of right. They do bring it upon themselves with their behavior a majority of the time. Sometime it is bad cops though. Not in the Brown case though. That was cut and dried justified.

Statistically 1 in 3 black males will go to prison in their lifetime. This is much to high of a percentage to make any argument about prejudice or bias. It's learned behavior that needs to be modified. Nobody forces them to live in these areas or engage in crime.

I roll my eyes when bleeding heart liberals try to justify this sort of behavior.

I wonder what the percentage is of people who live in trailers, that go to prison in their lifetime? I'll bet it's much too high of a percentage to make any argument about prejudice or bias. It's learned behavior, and people who live in trailers obviously need to have their behavior modified. Nobody forces them to live in a trailer, engage in crime, or engage in thinly veiled racial hatred.

jonhowe

11-24-2014, 07:48 PM

Sigh...... do you believe it's possible they are intentionally manipulated by the government to have 20% unemployment and nothing but time and hate on their minds? Can you imagine sitting around for 30 months, with nothing to do... applying for jobs and getting nowhere? The only way they can make a decent living is by running drugs.... Now Obama took that away from them with his own Mexican cartels. My point, this is an intentional, manipulated effort to stifle black Americans ... Obama is not a black man... he is a Muslim .... He could give a chit less about the blacks in America.... let alone the whites in America ... His loyalty is not towards America at all.

I don't know where to begin with this.

Obama isn't black? He's a muslim? Obama stopped blacks from selling drugs and replaced them with mexicans?

WHAT?

There's certainly a manipulated effort to stifle black americans, just as there is an effort to fight against it. And of course, there's the leeches who just want money/fame (think "Reverend" Jackson, for example). But between those truths, everything else you said is, well, crazy. Especially the part about agreeing with Rudy!

The face of those trying to 'stifle black Americans' are the police. They are the one destroying families over recreational drug use (and trumped up charges of recreational drug use!). They are the ones putting blacks in cages for victimless crimes, creating an unending cycle of poverty in black communities. Urban poverty almost always translates to crime, and the cycle repeats.

jonhowe

11-24-2014, 07:54 PM

Statistically 1 in 3 black males will go to prison in their lifetime. This is much to high of a percentage to make any argument about prejudice or bias. It's learned behavior that needs to be modified. Nobody forces them to live in these areas or engage in crime.

You have it EXACTLY backwards. The fact that the difference is so stark is evidence that there IS a prejudice and bias! In many cases, especially historically speaking, blacks WERE forced to live in these areas! Are you really this clueless to 20th century american history??

Anecdote: I live in a neighborhood of NYC that is 99% black or hispanic (but mostly black). I am white (see picture). Until they ended stop and frisk, I would see dozens of black kids stopped and frisked daily from my window (overlooking a small park). I often went to that park and was never stopped or frisked even once in 3 years. Until a year or so ago when I mostly gave it up, I often had marijuana on me. I was committing a crime. A black man with weed on him would be committing the same crime. But I never got stopped or caught; they did. My neighbor, who is actually turkish, but dark enough to qualify, got stopped often; he never smoked weed in his life!

My point is: you are saying incarceration rates are indicative of crime rates, and prove blacks commit more crimes. It actually proves (a point Ron often makes) that cops are biased towards arresting blacks for minor crimes.

Occam's Banana

11-24-2014, 07:58 PM

Giuliani is sort of right. They do bring it upon themselves with their behavior a majority of the time. Sometime it is bad cops though. Not in the Brown case though. That was cut and dried justified.

Statistically 1 in 3 black males will go to prison in their lifetime. This is much to high of a percentage to make any argument about prejudice or bias. It's learned behavior that needs to be modified. Nobody forces them to live in these areas or engage in crime.

I roll my eyes when bleeding heart liberals try to justify this sort of behavior.

I guess it's a good thing that the government doesn't send anyone to prison unless they really deserve to be there.
I mean, if they did that, why, 1 in 2 black males might end up "learning the behavior" of "going to prison" ...

(Talk about "I roll my eyes when ..." - :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:)

And, hey! I bet blacks "bring it upon themselves" when they are given longer sentences than whites for exactly the same crimes ... don't they?

otherone

11-24-2014, 08:02 PM

Giuliani is sort of right. They do bring it upon themselves with their behavior a majority of the time.
Statistically 1 in 3 black males will go to prison in their lifetime. This is much to high of a percentage to make any argument about prejudice or bias. It's learned behavior that needs to be modified. Nobody forces them to live in these areas or engage in crime.
I roll my eyes when bleeding heart liberals try to justify this sort of behavior.

Statistically, men overwhelmingly commit more violent crime than women.

I roll my eyes when bleeding heart liberals try to justify this sort of behavior.

DFF

11-24-2014, 08:02 PM

My point is: you are saying incarceration rates are indicative of crime rates, and prove blacks commit more crimes. It actually proves (a point Ron often makes) that cops are biased towards arresting blacks for minor crimes.

Yeah, white racism is the reason blacks have a disproportionate incarceration rate. Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.

JK/SEA

11-24-2014, 08:05 PM

Yeah, white racism makes blacks commit crimes. Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.

so, you would favor ending the drug war then?

DFF

11-24-2014, 08:07 PM

so, you would favor ending the drug war then?

Yes I would. I'm against people being locked up for drug possession. Robbery, murder and rape though, fuck these people.

Antischism

11-24-2014, 08:09 PM

Quit engaging the racist.

Occam's Banana

11-24-2014, 08:10 PM

Quit engaging the racist.

Which one?

JK/SEA

11-24-2014, 08:11 PM

Which one?

glad i'm not the only one seeing this influx of Stormfront babble...

invisible

11-24-2014, 08:12 PM

Quit engaging the racist.

Racism always needs to be called out.

DFF

11-24-2014, 08:13 PM

glad i'm not the only one seeing this influx of Stormfront babble...

Yeah, but the deceptive Israeli liberalism babble is a-ok, right?

invisible

11-24-2014, 08:14 PM

glad i'm not the only one seeing this influx of Stormfront babble...

And I'm glad that I'm not the only one calling it out. A big thanks to all others who are also doing so.

jonhowe

11-24-2014, 08:18 PM

Yeah, white racism is the reason blacks have a disproportionate incarceration rate. Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.

Most of the cops in question are not white. Stop putting words in my mouth.

POLICE racism is the problem. Cops know they can get away with arresting blacks (because of people like you), and they need to fill their quota.

69360

11-24-2014, 08:28 PM

You have it EXACTLY backwards. The fact that the difference is so stark is evidence that there IS a prejudice and bias! In many cases, especially historically speaking, blacks WERE forced to live in these areas! Are you really this clueless to 20th century american history??

Anecdote: I live in a neighborhood of NYC that is 99% black or hispanic (but mostly black). I am white (see picture). Until they ended stop and frisk, I would see dozens of black kids stopped and frisked daily from my window (overlooking a small park). I often went to that park and was never stopped or frisked even once in 3 years. Until a year or so ago when I mostly gave it up, I often had marijuana on me. I was committing a crime. A black man with weed on him would be committing the same crime. But I never got stopped or caught; they did. My neighbor, who is actually turkish, but dark enough to qualify, got stopped often; he never smoked weed in his life!

My point is: you are saying incarceration rates are indicative of crime rates, and prove blacks commit more crimes. It actually proves (a point Ron often makes) that cops are biased towards arresting blacks for minor crimes.

Were forced. Were being the key word. There is nothing in 2014 stopping a black male from moving out of a bad area, getting a job and leading a good life.

Black males commit 50% of all homicides in the US but are only 6% of the population. This is something they need to change. This is so lopsided that statistically it's justified for people including police to be wary. Sorry, it is, you'd be ignorant to ignore it. Black men need to step up and right this. Lead others by example, be responsible for their sons and raise them up right.

jonhowe

11-24-2014, 08:34 PM

Black men need to step up and right this. Lead others by example, be responsible for their sons and raise them up right.

I'll call those fathers in prison (only $9/minute!) on possession charges and tell them to do a better job raising their kids. brb

JustinTime

11-24-2014, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Antischism :
Quit engaging the racist.

Which one?

Anyone who says anything you disagree with.

JustinTime

11-24-2014, 08:43 PM

Well he is right, high crime areas get policed more. Duh.

invisible

11-24-2014, 08:47 PM

Were forced. Were being the key word. There is nothing in 2014 stopping a black male from moving out of a bad area, getting a job and leading a good life.

Black males commit 50% of all homicides in the US but are only 6% of the population. This is something they need to change. This is so lopsided that statistically it's justified for people including police to be wary. Sorry, it is, you'd be ignorant to ignore it. Black men need to step up and right this. Lead others by example, be responsible for their sons and raise them up right.

There is nothing in 2014 stopping an ignorant person from moving out of their trailer, ceasing their racism, and leading a good life as a decent human being.

A small handful of ignorant folks propagate a very large percentage of racist comments here on RPF, and they are only a small fraction of the membership. This is something that needs to change, as it creates a very bad impression among non-members viewing RPF. This is so lopsided, that it could very well turn a lot of people off, who would otherwise be interested in Liberty. We would be ignorant to ignore this fact. This situation needs to be righted, it's nice to see others leading by example by calling these racists out.

JustinTime

11-24-2014, 08:54 PM

There is nothing in 2014 stopping an ignorant person from moving out of their trailer, ceasing their racism, and leading a good life as a decent human being.

I don't see rednecks and white trash blaming their problems on anyone, at least not to the degree police need to break out riot gear. Poor and ignorant whites are generally content with the life they've chosen.

A small handful of ignorant folks propagate a very large percentage of racist comments here on RPF, and they are only a small fraction of the membership. This is something that needs to change, as it creates a very bad impression among non-members viewing RPF. This is so lopsided, that it could very well turn a lot of people off, who would otherwise be interested in Liberty. We would be ignorant to ignore this fact. This situation needs to be righted, it's nice to see others leading by example by calling these racists out.

We should speak truth, whether its popular or not. More often than not crying about "racism" is just a way to silence truth. When you cant logically refute something just say "Aw, uh... racism! You've got to shut up 'cause its bad!"

Its a scam.

invisible

11-24-2014, 09:02 PM

I don't see rednecks and white trash blaming their problems on anyone, at least not to the degree police need to break out riot gear. Poor and ignorant whites are generally content with the life they've chosen.

We should speak truth, whether its popular or not. More often than not crying about "racism" is just a way to silence truth. When you cant logically refute something just say "Aw, uh... racism! You've got to shut up 'cause its bad!"

Its a scam.

Exactly. These people are blaming the victims for a problem that exists everywhere, while claiming that it could never happen in their own content little life. Truth should always be spoken, rather than making up phony statistics and presenting them as fact. You are very correct that some truths are uncomfortable, and one of them is that this small handful of people spouting racist crap (and attempting to use phony statistics to justify it) makes everyone here on RPF look bad if it is not called out.

DFF

11-24-2014, 09:06 PM

We should speak truth, whether its popular or not. More often than not crying about "racism" is just a way to silence truth.

Communists don't believe in free speech. Unfortunately we have a few of these guys here at RPF's.

otherone

11-24-2014, 09:13 PM

Black males commit 50% of all homicides in the US but are only 6% of the population. This is something they need to change. This is so lopsided that statistically it's justified for people including police to be wary. Sorry, it is, you'd be ignorant to ignore it. Black men need to step up and right this. Lead others by example, be responsible for their sons and raise them up right.

Males commit 90% of all homicides in the US but are only 49% of the population. This is something they need to change. This is so lopsided that statistically it's justified for people including police to be wary. Sorry, it is, you'd be ignorant to ignore it. Men need to step up and right this. Lead others by example, be responsible for their sons and raise them up right.

Cutlerzzz

11-24-2014, 09:27 PM

Males commit 90% of all homicides in the US but are only 49% of the population. This is something they need to change. This is so lopsided that statistically it's justified for people including police to be wary. Sorry, it is, you'd be ignorant to ignore it. Men need to step up and right this. Lead others by example, be responsible for their sons and raise them up right.
Do you think that 69360 will disagree with that statement?

jonhowe

11-24-2014, 09:32 PM

Communists don't believe in free speech. Unfortunately we have a few of these guys here at RPF's.

Disagreeing with your absurd statements means we don't believe in freedom of speech? Huh?

otherone

11-24-2014, 09:33 PM

Do you think that 69360 will disagree with that statement?
Don't care.
Reductio ad absurdum (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum)

Cutlerzzz

11-24-2014, 10:39 PM

You did not reduce anything to absurdity. Someone would be a fool not to be more suspicious of men committing violent crime than women.

otherone

11-24-2014, 10:47 PM

Someone would be a fool not to be more suspicious of men committing violent crime than women.

You're wary of men??

Cutlerzzz

11-24-2014, 10:50 PM

You're wary of men??

Any rational person is more concerned about a man walking towards you in the middle of the night than a woman.

James Madison

11-24-2014, 10:52 PM

Any rational person is more concerned about a man walking towards you in the middle of the night than a woman.

Or following you...

otherone

11-24-2014, 10:58 PM

Any rational person is more concerned about a man walking towards you in the middle of the night than a woman.

Agreed. Just don't shoot, frisk, or hassle me based on your concern.

Cutlerzzz

11-24-2014, 11:12 PM

Agreed. Just don't shoot, frisk, or hassle me based on your concern.

Nobody is or was advocating shooting, frisking, or hassling anybody.

jmdrake

11-25-2014, 12:23 AM

Communists don't believe in free speech. Unfortunately we have a few of these guys here at RPF's.

You're the racist communist DFF so I guess that makes you the expert. Let me know when you learn statistics okay? And I would neg rep you back but I"m out at the moment dipshit.

DFF

11-25-2014, 12:25 AM

You're the racist communist DFF so I guess that makes you the expert. Let me know when you learn statistics okay? And I would neg rep you back but I"m out at the moment dipshit.

M'kay Trotsky Jr....whatever you say.

jmdrake

11-25-2014, 12:27 AM

jmdrake

11-25-2014, 12:28 AM

M'kay Trotsky Jr....whatever you say.

Okay Ernest T. Bass Jr. Let me know when you achieve numeracy.

DFF

11-25-2014, 12:43 AM

Well white men commit most of the rapes, arson and aggravated assaults.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

And young white men and middle aged white women are almost exclusively responsible for mass shootings.

Those "white" rape and murder numbers are bullshit, because they lump Hispanics in with whites of European decent.

If you really want an accurate sample of how violent and sexually aggressive whites are, look at France, Germany, Switzerland, and pretty much any other European country.

Rape and murder numbers there are extremely low.

jmdrake

11-25-2014, 12:52 AM

Those "white" rape and murder numbers are bullshit, because they lump Hispanics in with whites of European decent.

No matter how you slice it, your "80% of rapes are committed by blacks" number is bullshit. You're still butt hurt over it.

If you really want an accurate sample of how violent and sexually aggressive whites are, look at France, Germany, Switzerland, and pretty much any other European country.

Rape and murder numbers there are extremely low.

Really? So why does Sweden have a higher rape rate than Jamaica?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/top-5-countries-highest-rates-rape-1434355

In fact Sweden and Belgium are in the top 5 worst countries for rape.

Edit: Bracing for the next round of "Your a commie" accusations from you because I actually know how to research my claims.

DFF

11-25-2014, 12:54 AM

Really? So why does Sweden have a higher rape rate than Jamaica?

Sweden's high instance of rape is due to Muslim immigrants from the Middle East. Not white Swedish men.

Try again...

jmdrake

11-25-2014, 01:06 AM

Sweden's high instance of rape is due to Muslim immigrants from the Middle East. Not white Swedish men.

Try again...

Ah. So the minority Muslim population is out raping the majority black population of Jamaica? And that's the case in Belgium too? And your link backing up your claim is where exactly? And what accounts for Russia having a higher murder rate than the U.S.?

BV2

11-25-2014, 01:20 AM

Stormfront infiltrating RPF?..

say it ain't so...
Looks so, some lurkers too, their member since dates make the entire place look... Didn't know stupid could plan like that.

DFF

11-25-2014, 01:22 AM

Ah. So the minority Muslim population is out raping the majority black population of Jamaica? And that's the case in Belgium too? And your link backing up your claim is where exactly? And what accounts for Russia having a higher murder rate than the U.S.?

Muslims are primarily the ones responsible for higher instances of rape in European countries. Sweden, Norway, Belgium....their rape problems are due to Muslim immigrants.

Now, the murder rate in Russia, while not nearly as high as those in Latin America and Africa, is predominately due to ethnic Russian on Russian crime. I'm not disputing that.

So I guess you can run with this in your quest to paint whites with as bad a brush as possible.

anaconda

11-25-2014, 02:08 AM

Imagine the backlash if Rand had made those statements.

AuH20

11-25-2014, 02:13 AM

Giuliani is absolutely correct. Many of these cities are basically open prisons after years of conditioning and societal decay.

anaconda

11-25-2014, 02:29 AM

Giuliani is absolutely correct. Many of these cities are basically open prisons after years of conditioning and societal decay.

Except why didn't Ghouliani just say "we wouldn't need cops there if blacks weren't killing blacks?" Instead of "we wouldn't need white cops there.....?"

AuH20

11-25-2014, 02:34 AM

I think he was referring to the concerns that there are far too many white cops patrolling these inner city areas, when it's a societal issue that's been 65 years in the making.

jmdrake

11-25-2014, 04:48 AM

Muslims are primarily the ones responsible for higher instances of rape in European countries. Sweden, Norway, Belgium....their rape problems are due to Muslim immigrants.

Now, the murder rate in Russia, while not nearly as high as those in Latin America and Africa, is predominately due to ethnic Russian on Russian crime. I'm not disputing that.

So I guess you can run with this in your quest to paint whites with as bad a brush as possible.

And the reason for the wholesale rape of entire villages of Belgian women by German soldiers during World War I was because the Belgians were really Muslim? How about the Belgian soldiers raping Congo women and cutting of the hands and feet of children during that same period? More secret Muslims? Anyway, you brought up the supposed "low rape rates" of European countries.

Schifference

11-25-2014, 06:44 AM

"Blacks today are nine times more likely to be killed by other blacks than by whites," Steele wrote. He went on to attack the Revs. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for "exploiting" Trayvon's death in an effort to promote a "liberal" agenda -- a point that O'Reilly was all too happy to expound.

Steele's perspective, though myopic and misguided, remains pervasive and embedded in the broader social consciousness. This red-herring approach is not new, but in the face of Trayvon's death -- for which there remains no arrest, no charges and no arraignment -- these obstructive tactics require an equal and opposite response.

What Will, Steele and O'Reilly failed to mention is the exacting truth that white Americans are just as likely to be killed by other whites. According to Justice Department statistics (pdf), 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2012/04/whiteonwhite_crime_it_goes_against_the_false_media _narrative.html

Weston White

11-25-2014, 07:03 AM

I don't think Giuliani understands socioeconomic issues.

I don't think R. Ghouliani understands reality:

“I’m not even going to dignify that with an answer,” Giuliani said Monday. He went on to argue that his policy of police placement as mayor was statistically-based, not race-based. “I probably saved more black lives as mayor of New York City than any mayor in the history of this city,” he said. “I’d like to see if Dr. Dyson has ever saved as many lives in his community as I’ve saved.”

Weston White

11-25-2014, 07:18 AM

FTFY:

Yeah, white supremacy is the reason blacks have a disproportionate incarceration rate.

otherone

11-25-2014, 07:25 AM

Steele's perspective, though myopic and misguided, remains pervasive and embedded in the broader social consciousness. This red-herring approach is not new, but in the face of Trayvon's death -- for which there remains no arrest, no charges and no arraignment -- these obstructive tactics require an equal and opposite response.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2012/04/whiteonwhite_crime_it_goes_against_the_false_media _narrative.html

The red herring is race-baiting. The authoritarian state requires fear of both external and internal sources to secure it's control.

Weston White

11-25-2014, 07:29 AM

Were forced. Were being the key word. There is nothing in 2014 stopping a black male from moving out of a bad area, getting a job and leading a good life.

Black males commit 50% of all homicides in the US but are only 6% of the population. This is something they need to change. This is so lopsided that statistically it's justified for people including police to be wary. Sorry, it is, you'd be ignorant to ignore it. Black men need to step up and right this. Lead others by example, be responsible for their sons and raise them up right.

True crux is however that the state obliges such behaviors and mentalities by serving in an enabler capacity. We the People need to commence a mass intervention upon the state to stop such practices and patterns (e.g., there are actually classrooms in California where Ebonics is used within the classroom as the primary means of communication).

JK/SEA

11-25-2014, 09:30 AM

To be honest, i think the people of Ferguson showed GREAT restraint yesterday.

Hats off.

invisible

11-25-2014, 10:46 AM

JK/SEA

11-25-2014, 11:12 AM

I never thought I'd live to see the day when anyone here would actually agree with anything that the ghoul says. I don't think that any true supporter of Ron Paul would ever agree with the ghoul. WTF has become of this place?

lots of the original members have left, or were banned...

Let the chips fall where they may is my opinion.

AuH20

11-25-2014, 11:55 AM

jmdrake

11-25-2014, 11:55 AM

I never thought I'd live to see the day when anyone here would actually agree with anything that the ghoul says. I don't think that any true supporter of Ron Paul would ever agree with the ghoul. WTF has become of this place?

Back in 2008 we had quite a few StormFart types. Though I think they would be surprised at the ghoul saying anything they could agree with either. Al Sharpton just said something I agree with. (Rand Paul can pull black voters). :eek:

jmdrake

11-25-2014, 11:56 AM

I think Freeway Rick Ross summed it up best when he questioned the fact that modern day black culture places drug dealing as a legitimate profession. That sums up the social epidemic in black communities.

Easy solution, end the government's war on drugs. If Kool aid becomes banned you'll see young cats on the street corner selling red powder. (Maybe that's Michelle Obama's agenda behind the whole "eat healthy" campaign. :eek:)

DevilsAdvocate

11-25-2014, 02:39 PM

To be honest, i think the people of Ferguson showed GREAT restraint yesterday.

Hats off.

Have you considered that Darren Wilson told the truth, and he actually did everything right? All of the evidence points that way, if you would take 10 seconds to look at the facts.

Why was the inside of Officer Wilson's car covered in Michael Brown's blood? Why did Darren Wilson have bruises indicating he'd been punched in the face? Why did all the bullets hit Michael Brown from the front, and not from the back?

JK/SEA

11-25-2014, 02:58 PM

Have you considered that Darren Wilson told the truth, and he actually did everything right? All of the evidence points that way, if you would take 10 seconds to look at the facts.

Why was the inside of Officer Wilson's car covered in Michael Brown's blood? Why did Darren Wilson have bruises indicating he'd been punched in the face? Why did all the bullets hit Michael Brown from the front, and not from the back?

1. fact is, cops lie. Its what they do.

2. fact is, cops plant 'evidence' ..Browns blood was everywhere. Not a big stretch to think one of Wilson's cohorts got some of the blood and spread it around the car.

3. bruises, and red skin?...i can do that very easily to myself anytime and blame you for it.

4. this is debatable, and being a 'thug' is not a death sentence. Other non lethal tactics could have been used, like taking notes while sitting in your car observing the perp, then call in back up on this big scary violent black 18 year old kid over cigars, and walking in the street...why do cops need to get amped up over minor shit like this?...i know why..they're cowards and punks with a badge and a gun.

DFF

11-25-2014, 03:10 PM

jmdrake

11-25-2014, 03:12 PM

They don't want the truth here. That would get in the way of the "whites are evil" and "blacks are victims" agenda.

:rolleyes: Right. And you want truth which is why you make up racist statistics.

jmdrake

11-25-2014, 03:16 PM

Have you considered that Darren Wilson told the truth, and he actually did everything right? All of the evidence points that way, if you would take 10 seconds to look at the facts.

Why was the inside of Officer Wilson's car covered in Michael Brown's blood? Why did Darren Wilson have bruises indicating he'd been punched in the face? Why did all the bullets hit Michael Brown from the front, and not from the back?

Actually there's evidence that points both ways like the distance from the car to Brown's body to the white construction workers, not from the area, who said Brown was walking with his hands in the air when he was shot. There is video from right after the shooting showing their reaction. And Wilson's injuries didn't look as serious as had been described. Enough evidence for a conviction? Hard to say. Enough for an indictment? I've seen indictments on less....much less.

moostraks

11-25-2014, 03:21 PM

They don't want the truth here. That would get in the way of the "whites are evil" and "blacks are victims" agenda.

Really? Is that so? Might want to check your precept there. Problem some of us might have with the narrative is that police lie and abuse authority and this articular area seems to have a typical reputation for such behavior,

DFF

11-25-2014, 03:22 PM

JMDrake had 30,469 posts. Wow. That is a LOT of left-wing propaganda. Your fingers must be worn down to nubs after 7 years of continually typing marxist horseshit.

JK/SEA

11-25-2014, 03:23 PM

They don't want the truth here. That would get in the way of the "whites are evil" and "blacks are victims" agenda.

do you check under your bed every night for that black boogeyman?

NIU Students for Liberty

11-25-2014, 03:31 PM

Have you considered that Darren Wilson told the truth, and he actually did everything right? All of the evidence points that way, if you would take 10 seconds to look at the facts.

What Wilson did was NOT self-defense. This does not justify shooting a person to death:

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--kJJ44zjD--/lxh2804kgk6sx7xkxmfq.jpg

DFF

11-25-2014, 03:39 PM

NIU Students for Liberty

11-25-2014, 03:45 PM

Where did that bruise on his face come from? Makeup?

According to the leftists here, Wilson should have just stood there and let that "gentle giant" beat him death.

Nice avatar, though. I like Alice In Chains, too.

Oh no, I'm buying the bruise but not that it was enough to warrant shooting Brown. Now if Brown was standing over him, fine, but that's not how it went down.

DFF

11-25-2014, 03:56 PM

Oh no, I'm buying the bruise but not that it was enough to warrant shooting Brown. Now if Brown was standing over him, fine, but that's not how it went down.

Everyone knows the police have the legal right to use lethal force. Anyone who's stupid enough to attack them had it coming.

Michael Brown had it coming. And he got it. No deeper explanation required.

otherone

11-25-2014, 04:00 PM

Everyone knows the police have the legal right to use lethal force.

What's a "legal right"?

moostraks

11-25-2014, 04:05 PM

Everyone knows the police have the legal right to use lethal force. Anyone who's stupid enough to attack them had it coming.

Michael Brown had it coming. And he got it. No deeper explanation required.

Not all of us find police to be some protected class that can act as they please and then kill without punishment. Time we stopped giving bullies badges and the blanket immunity that provokes responses such as "anyone who's stupid enough to attack them had it coming" from those who would be potentials to sit on a jury deciding the guilt or innocence of an officer.

JK/SEA

11-25-2014, 04:08 PM

Everyone knows the police have the legal right to use lethal force. Anyone who's stupid enough to attack them had it coming.

Michael Brown had it coming. And he got it. No deeper explanation required.

too bad Brown can't tell his side of the story, but then, Wilson wouldn't get the pleasure of killing a black kid, and miss out on the high fives in the locker room.

Tywysog Cymru

11-25-2014, 04:08 PM

DFF

11-25-2014, 04:17 PM

too bad Brown can't tell his side of the story, but then, Wilson wouldn't get the pleasure of killing a black kid, and miss out on the high fives in the locker room.

Hearing Brown's side of the story is unnecessary, considering he attacked Wilson, who had the right to kill him. Brown committed suicide by cop. He killed himself.

Christian Liberty

11-25-2014, 04:26 PM

My post from another thread:

Congrats to Rudy. If you keep playing this as a white vs. black thing, the police can get away with doing what they do, and white Boobus will support their every move.

Indeed. I'm getting so sick of the racial commentary. Who cares what color the people's skin are? Deal with the issues.

moostraks

11-25-2014, 04:29 PM

Hearing Brown's side of the story is unnecessary, considering he attacked Wilson, who had the right to kill him. Brown committed suicide by cop. He killed himself.

Pretty important what Brown's side of the story is if you were interested in what might have provoked him to "attack" Wilson. Wilson didn't kill him? Brown did this to himself? How original of you...

Occam's Banana

11-25-2014, 05:58 PM

I think Freeway Rick Ross summed it up best when he questioned the fact that modern day black culture places drug dealing as a legitimate profession.

So have white middle-class suburban poppers of government-approved pills induced "Freeway Rick" to question the fact that modern day white culture places drug dealing as a legitimate profession?

That sums up the social epidemic in black communities.

No, that sums up the social epidemic of the War on Drugs.

James Madison

11-25-2014, 06:52 PM

NIU Students for Liberty

11-25-2014, 09:10 PM

Christian Liberty

11-25-2014, 09:45 PM

So because the law says so, it's justified?

Someone enlighten me, is DFF secretly FrankRep?
I think he's being sarcastic. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

DFF

11-25-2014, 09:57 PM

So because the law says so, it's justified?

Someone enlighten me, is DFF secretly FrankRep?

No. Because common sense says so. There are consequences for ignorance.

When you step in front of a car and get hit, there's no one to blame but yourself.

Brown did something extremely foolish, and he payed with his life.

Don't attack cops, this is the simple moral of the story.

Christian Liberty

11-25-2014, 10:00 PM

I knew when I saw this thread that there would be posters rushing to defend this statement and to defend the white police officer. This just furthers the stereotype of the Liberty movement being about white people who are afraid that minorities are out to get them.

Even I'm fuzzy on this one. Again, IF Brown was confronted for an actual crime (as opposed to a victimless "crime"), and IF Brown responded by trying to take Wilson's gun, I think Wilson would have been justified at that point.

Is that what really happened? I don't know.

presence

11-25-2014, 10:02 PM

Everyone knows the police have the legal right to use lethal force. Anyone who's stupid enough to attack them had it coming.

I'd just like to point out that being a cop does not give you "legal right to use lethal force"; being in mortal danger does.

http://makegif.com/gFHV.gif

carry on

presence

11-25-2014, 10:05 PM

Don't attack cops, this is the simple moral of the story.

See... and I thought the moral here was that police vengence is not equal to officer safety

DFF

11-25-2014, 10:07 PM

presence

11-25-2014, 10:07 PM

Self-defense here is defined as "protecting oneself from injury at the hand of others." Self-defense is not about taking vengeance. Self-defense is not about punishing criminals. Self-defense involves preserving one's own health and life when it is threatened by the actions of others.http://www.biblicalselfdefense.com/

presence

11-25-2014, 10:08 PM

Those bruises on Officer Wilson's face didn't occur due Brown's hands being up in the air.

So are you claiming the head shot was taken while Brown was attacking?

This guy doesn't think so:

http://makegif.com/gFHV.gif

DFF

11-25-2014, 10:14 PM

I understand you don't believe in self-defense...that's ok...some of us still do.

invisible

11-25-2014, 10:23 PM

I understand you don't believe in self-defense...that's ok...some of us still do.

When are you going to actually make a rational argument, rather than only attacking people with name-calling and lame insults? Seriously, this is 3rd grade level material, in both your arguments and your attempts at attacking those who speak with any sort of intelligence.

presence

11-25-2014, 10:25 PM

I understand you don't believe in self-defense...that's ok...some of us still do.

WTF is that?

Let me throw some equal bullshit back in your court:

I understand, you believe it is justified to summarily execute surrendering suspects....that's ok...some of us don't.

presence

11-25-2014, 10:27 PM

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02942/Mideast-Iraq_2942792b.jpg

JustinTime

11-25-2014, 11:42 PM

I never thought I'd live to see the day when anyone here would actually agree with anything that the ghoul says. I don't think that any true supporter of Ron Paul would ever agree with the ghoul. WTF has become of this place?

Generally I don't, but what was quoted in the title? He is right. Black neighborhoods tend to be high crime, and usually they kill each other far more than white cops.

DFF

11-26-2014, 12:35 AM

Hey, don't tell the truth, dude. That's racist. ;)

invisible

11-26-2014, 12:38 AM

Generally I don't, but what was quoted in the title? He is right. Black neighborhoods tend to be high crime, and usually they kill each other far more than white cops.

Yes or no, one word only answer, please: You agree with the ghoul's argument that black on black crime statistics mean that police misconduct is not a problem?

presence

11-26-2014, 09:19 AM

When you step in front of a car and get hit, there's no one to blame but yourself.

Brown did something extremely foolish, and he payed with his life.

Don't attack cops, this is the simple moral of the story.

call me jaded

http://makegif.com/gJGC.gif (http://makegif.com/gJGC)

Cop Jumps on Car to Frame Driver (http://theblemish.com/2014/09/argentinian-cop-jumps-car-frame-driver/)

moostraks

11-26-2014, 09:23 AM

http://makegif.com/gFHV.gif

Those bruises on Officer Wilson's face didn't occur due to Brown's hands being up in the air.

The bruising came from Brown being an idiot and attacking him.

If he hadn't done this, he would still be alive today, and smoking all the stolen swisher sweets he could get his hands on.

So you think an 18 year old guy just walked up to Officer Friendly and started pummeling him and attempted to steal Officer Friendly's gun and there was no provocation from Officer Friendly to inspire such a reaction? Or is Officer Friendly entitled to do anything he pleases and we are all just supposed to keep our eyes averted and defer to the power and great wisdom of the king's men?

acptulsa

11-26-2014, 09:37 AM

I understand you don't believe in self-defense...that's ok...some of us still do.

I understand you think you were an eyewitness.

That's ok.

We will still listen to people who were within a hundred miles of the spot on the day instead of you.

UWDude

11-26-2014, 01:55 PM

Were forced. Were being the key word. There is nothing in 2014 stopping a black male from moving out of a bad area, getting a job and leading a good life.

Nothing? You sure about that?

Lead others by example, be responsible for their sons and raise them up right.

How do you suppose they do this?

How about this lyric

"Man, we need to get rid of the pushers, pimps, and prostitutes, and start all over again!"
"Nigga! You CRAZY!"

Basically, you are saying people raised by the streets, are supposed to somehow stop living the way of the streets. I guarantee, most peopel here, if they were black, would be in a gang themselves, because most of you are human, er go, cowards deep down, and would NEED the protection gangs afford in the ghetto.

I had a black friend tell me this once, after an altercation at a bar:
"You were afraid because they were black!? You think YOU would be the one they would go after!? I was afraid, they always go after black guys first!"

jmdrake

11-26-2014, 08:32 PM

Hey, don't tell the truth, dude. That's racist. ;)

Admit it. Your sister/wife ran off with a black man.

jmdrake

11-26-2014, 08:35 PM

JMDrake had 30,469 posts. Wow. That is a LOT of left-wing propaganda. Your fingers must be worn down to nubs after 7 years of continually typing marxist horseshit.

You know, responding to racist lies from trolls communist racist trolls like yourself takes time. How long have you been worshiping Stalin? And do you know that Hitler was a socialist?

jmdrake

11-26-2014, 08:39 PM

So because the law says so, it's justified?

Someone enlighten me, is DFF secretly FrankRep?

No. FrankRep was not racist. Nor did FrankRep make up fake stats and then get pissed when someone called him on it.

invisible

11-26-2014, 08:43 PM

No. FrankRep was not racist. Nor did FrankRep make up fake stats and then get pissed when someone called him on it.

FrankRep could also form and present a rational, coherent argument.

PaulConventionWV

11-26-2014, 08:49 PM

Good point.

“Black people who kill black people go to jail, White people who are policemen who kill black people do not go to jail,” Dyson said.

Incorrect. The media has presented you with two dichotomous options. All others are invalid.

PaulConventionWV

11-26-2014, 08:58 PM

Statistically, men overwhelmingly commit more violent crime than women.

I roll my eyes when bleeding heart liberals try to justify this sort of behavior.

When have bleeding heart liberals ever tried to justify anything men do?

GunnyFreedom

11-26-2014, 09:11 PM

GunnyFreedom

11-26-2014, 09:14 PM

They are posting a meme of Giuliani with that quote. All proud of it, cheering the bastard on. I'm just wtf?

PaulConventionWV

11-26-2014, 09:15 PM

Were forced. Were being the key word. There is nothing in 2014 stopping a black male from moving out of a bad area, getting a job and leading a good life.

Absolutely nothing, huh? You don't find that statement the least bit naive?

Black males commit 50% of all homicides in the US but are only 6% of the population. This is something they need to change. This is so lopsided that statistically it's justified for people including police to be wary. Sorry, it is, you'd be ignorant to ignore it. Black men need to step up and right this. Lead others by example, be responsible for their sons and raise them up right.

That statistic is a bit misleading. Blacks make up 13 percent of the population, so to blame it on black males, you would have to compare it only to the rest of the male population, which is about half, so instead of 6% versus 94%, it's 6% versus 47%. There's clearly a difference, yes, but the statistic you gave was misleading because you applied it to the whole population.

I suppose it is a vicious cycle that keeps blacks down, but that just goes against your point that there is absolutely NOTHING holding them back. You can't just blame it all on blacks and none of it on the police. That statement is just dead wrong. You can't put a 20lb weight on someone's back and expect them to win a footrace. "There's nothing stopping you," you might say. If that's your stance, then that makes you an idiot.

DFF

11-26-2014, 10:25 PM

Ever wonder why leftists defend blacks no matter what?

Read about Joe Slovo and how he used Mandela and the ANC to overthrow the white south african ruling class and then it all makes sense.

Leftists don't give a shit about the black struggle...all they care about is using them.

PaulConventionWV

11-26-2014, 10:58 PM

I don't see rednecks and white trash blaming their problems on anyone, at least not to the degree police need to break out riot gear. Poor and ignorant whites are generally content with the life they've chosen.

We should speak truth, whether its popular or not. More often than not crying about "racism" is just a way to silence truth. When you cant logically refute something just say "Aw, uh... racism! You've got to shut up 'cause its bad!"

Its a scam.

I'm not calling you racist, but I still think you're wrong. You act like there's no disadvantage to being black at all. And FYI, rednecks don't riot because they live in the freakin' country. And it's usually easier to avoid cops in the country.

Antischism

11-26-2014, 11:05 PM

I'm just going to drop this here.

https://storify.com/betakateenin/white-people-riots

PaulConventionWV

11-26-2014, 11:20 PM

Everyone knows the police have the legal right to use lethal force. Anyone who's stupid enough to attack them had it coming.

Michael Brown had it coming. And he got it. No deeper explanation required.

"Had it coming"... Isn't that what some men say when they beat their wives to death?

Oh, and "legal right" is just code for "some men are more equal than others". You know that, right?

PaulConventionWV

11-26-2014, 11:24 PM

Hearing Brown's side of the story is unnecessary, considering he attacked Wilson, who had the right to kill him. Brown committed suicide by cop. He killed himself.

Right, Wilson had the "right to kill". Who gave him this right, again?

PaulConventionWV

11-26-2014, 11:32 PM

No. Because common sense says so. There are consequences for ignorance.

When you step in front of a car and get hit, there's no one to blame but yourself.

Brown did something extremely foolish, and he payed with his life.

Don't attack cops, this is the simple moral of the story.

Yeah... the story of our enslavement. Maybe Brown was just fed up with all the injustice? Maybe it was kinda like Americans being fed up with the British way back in the 1770s? I guess they should've just kept their heads down and kept quiet. Only stupid people get killed by tyrannical killers... yeeaahhh.

PaulConventionWV

11-26-2014, 11:47 PM

You'll never guess what DFF said to me in a neg rep... "blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

Powerful stuff, man. You've really got a way with words.

invisible

11-26-2014, 11:52 PM

You'll never guess what DFF said to me in a neg rep... "blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

Powerful stuff, man. You've really got a way with words.

At least he apparently knows when to stop making a public spectacle of himself. And I'd consider the "blah blah" a step up from the profane deluge that I received.

PaulConventionWV

11-26-2014, 11:54 PM

See, the problem is that there's a vicious cycle of cops being wary of black and blacks being thugs because of cops treating them unequally.

The problem with DFF is that he seems to think this cycle started by blacks being thugs. As I recall, it was the other way around.

You can tell me I'm just painting my own "race" as the white devil, but you don't have a monopoly on truth just because what you say isn't popular.

GunnyFreedom

11-27-2014, 12:17 AM

DFF

11-27-2014, 12:26 AM

GunnyFreedom

11-27-2014, 12:27 AM

LMAO thanks DFF for the negrep "for being a fake libertarian" :rolleyes: :D

I guess that pissed the little stormfronter off, since he hit me again and called me a fraud. :D "D

GunnyFreedom

11-27-2014, 12:27 AM

Well, I guess it's official.

Anyone here who doesn't explicitly endorse liberalism - which is the antithesis of being a libertarian - is now a member of the "KKK."

...how absolutely pathetic.

LMAO no, just you. :)

GunnyFreedom

11-27-2014, 12:33 AM

http://glenbradley.net/share/fbt2.jpg

DFF

11-27-2014, 12:47 AM

*looks up*

Two can play this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVyCfJ5cOOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA

http://i.vimeocdn.com/video/485686553_640.jpg

http://www.roytov.com/articles/africanprotests2.jpg

:D

GunnyFreedom

11-27-2014, 12:50 AM

LOL and your videos demonstrate what? That you are as obsessed with race as the people I'm mocking on Facebook? :p :D

jmdrake

11-27-2014, 06:56 AM

Well, I guess it's official.

Anyone here who doesn't explicitly endorse liberalism - which is the antithesis of being a libertarian-republican - is now a member of the "KKK."

...how absolutely pathetic.

------------------------

Have a happy thanksgiving. :)

Okay. I'm going to pull a Collins.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

This has nothing to do with "endorsing liberalism" and you know it. Gunny is now a liberal? Really? In the Cosby thread that set you off on your latest round of stupidity, if you had said blacks rape at a higher percentage than whites nobody would have challenged you. But you jumped the shark with "Blacks commit 80% of the rapes" fake statistic that you couldn't even back up by cherry picking stats from racist websites, let alone from the FBI crime stats. And from that point on you have gone full retard on the subject of race. This isn't about cutting welfare or ending abortion or foreign policy or any other typical liberal/conservative argument. It's you, and one or two other people, insisting on seeing everything through a racial lens. And it's pathetic.

jmdrake

11-27-2014, 06:57 AM

LMAO no, just you. :)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GunnyFreedom again.

jmdrake

11-27-2014, 07:08 AM

Ummmmm...yeah. You're not going to find a lot of Israel apologists here. I supposed this would be a good response to something posted by maybemaybenot. And our intervention in Libya led to ethnic cleansing of black Africans from Libya. Way to spread freedom Obama!

Here's the deal. Police brutality stinks. It's widespread in this country and other countries. It happens to people of all races. Gunny and I have said the same thing in multiple threads. The Mike Brown case is murky. The Baby Bou "flashbang in a crib", Miriam Carey "let's get the baby out the car then shoot the mom in the back 6 times" and the Kelly Thomas "Let's harass a homeless white guy for 10 minutes, tell him on camera that we are going to fuck him up, then beat him to death while he pleads for mercy" cases are clear cut. It would make sense as a movement to focus on them then to argue incessantly about Mike Brown. That said, according to that "liberal" document called the Bible, in the mouth of two witnesses a thing shall be established. And two white witnesses who were not from the area came forward and confirmed the "He had his hands up story" and their present sense impressions were caught on video. That should have been enough for any prosecutor worth his salt to get an indictment. Maybe not a conviction, but most certainly an indictment.

*looks up*

Two can play this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVyCfJ5cOOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA

http://i.vimeocdn.com/video/485686553_640.jpg

http://www.roytov.com/articles/africanprotests2.jpg

:D

otherone

11-27-2014, 09:49 AM

This isn't about cutting welfare or ending abortion or foreign policy or any other typical liberal/conservative argument. It's you, and one or two other people, insisting on seeing everything through a racial lens. And it's pathetic.

It's ubiquitous, and cultivated by the state through the media. People are trained to think "we" instead of "I".

The Mike Brown case is murky.

There is no Brown case. There is a Wilson case.
A man executed an unarmed teen and there is no trial. Not murky at all.

moostraks

11-27-2014, 10:36 AM

"The Facebook Tea Party" has all but turned into a Klan convention lately. Some people spoke up in protest but they were social-pressured to shut up. Then they are all high fiving over a George Bush "Miss Me Yet?" lol I was like OMG I think I just found the "Racist Tea Party."

That's the BIG group that's been on the major news networks.

Ya know I noticed this on certain feeds such as Drudge and Cop Block (as well), in the comments sections. It has been enlightening to say the least just what seethes under the surface and what some morons are willing to type and attach to their profiles. Smh...

GunnyFreedom

11-27-2014, 02:08 PM

No. FrankRep was not racist. Nor did FrankRep make up fake stats and then get pissed when someone called him on it.

Aye, and as much as FrankRep had zero empathy for even the most innocent victims of police overreach (ie Kelly Thomas), Frank was actually pretty good on most things relating to paleoconservatism. His one or two pet peeves that drew him off the Constitution were minor compared to the overall position he held on minimal federalism. In the end though, I think he worshipped the State a little too much, abandoning all empathy for even it's most innocent victims, and found himself incompatible with the primary philosophy of personal sovereign liberty.

heavenlyboy34

11-27-2014, 02:22 PM

Occam's Banana

11-27-2014, 03:00 PM

Ever wonder why leftists defend blacks no matter what?

No more than I wonder why bigots whine & snivel about them no matter what.

Leftists ... bigots ... what's the diff? Collectivists gonna collectivize ...

Politicos use the plight of others for their own advantage? You don't say! :eek: This must be a new development! ;)

It's true! Really! Someone started a thread about it the other day.

69360

11-27-2014, 03:30 PM

Leftists don't give a shit about the black struggle...all they care about is using them.

They really don't care. And the same old white people you see on the news holding up their "black lives matter" signs are the same ones who will look away or cross to the other side if they encounter a black man on a dark street. Who are the real racists you have to ask yourselves.

Leftists are conditioned to coddle black folks cradle to grave excusing any crimes or bad behavior they commit because of events that happened over 50 years ago. This is 2014, everyone has the same opportunities, if some ghetto thugs want to behave like animals that's their choice, but their situation is nobody's fault but their own.

GunnyFreedom

11-27-2014, 04:28 PM

LOL and your videos demonstrate what? That you are as obsessed with race as the people I'm mocking on Facebook? :p :D

LOL DFF just can't get enough of me :D I understand the truth hurts. :( I'm sorry for your pain.

GunnyFreedom

11-27-2014, 04:32 PM

Ya know I noticed this on certain feeds such as Drudge and Cop Block (as well), in the comments sections. It has been enlightening to say the least just what seethes under the surface and what some morons are willing to type and attach to their profiles. Smh...

All the sudden it was like "BOOM Here it is!" and I have to wonder how much of it is being deliberately instigated? :(

invisible

11-27-2014, 04:40 PM

All the sudden it was like "BOOM Here it is!" and I have to wonder how much of it is being deliberately instigated? :(

Probably almost all of it. This sort of thing has never been a problem here, and all of a sudden, just like you say, "BOOM here it is". It's just come out of nowhere in the last few months and exploded, and it's always the same handful of posters, who have shown NO positive contribution here that they are actually working towards the cause of Liberty. I agree, that something is afoot.

jmdrake

11-27-2014, 04:53 PM

I guess that pissed the little stormfronter off, since he hit me again and called me a fraud. :D "D

+rep. DFF is a spoiled little child with a shoe size for an IQ.

jmdrake

11-27-2014, 04:54 PM

No more than I wonder why bigots whine & snivel about them no matter what.

Leftists ... bigots ... what's the diff? Collectivists gonna collectivize ...

It's true! Really! Someone started a thread about it the other day.

Bigots gotta bigot. Racists gotta race. And his only comeback is "You're a leftist!" :rolleyes:

orenbus

11-27-2014, 09:19 PM

Didn't catch the Rudy segment where he suggested prosecutor go after the eye witnesses but it's discussed here, TYT obviously has an agenda, some interesting points here though they also talk about recent other cases to consider when it comes to law enforcement over reach in use of lethal force such as the cases with toy guns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xeq8zFA31A

orenbus

11-27-2014, 09:20 PM

invisible

11-27-2014, 09:38 PM

They really don't care. And the same old white people you see on the news holding up their "black lives matter" signs are the same ones who will look away or cross to the other side if they encounter a black man on a dark street. Who are the real racists you have to ask yourselves.

Leftists are conditioned to coddle black folks cradle to grave excusing any crimes or bad behavior they commit because of events that happened over 50 years ago. This is 2014, everyone has the same opportunities, if some ghetto thugs want to behave like animals that's their choice, but their situation is nobody's fault but their own.

And of course, thuggish violence never happens in nice places like ME that have such low black populations. People don't go around shooting each other in semi rural areas, or even an upscale place like Sherwood. So since people only act like animals in a "ghetto", your trailer sure must look like a castle compared to this "ghetto" in ME:

http://www.pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003499935852.jpg

http://www.pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/242158-109340-two-killed-one-injured-in-thanksgiving-day-shooting

Few details have been released, but according to Sherwood police, a gunman opened fire inside the home at about 12:30 a.m., killing a woman, injuring another and then apparently turning the gun on himself.

It’s a quiet neighborhood, Houk said. The only complaint residents have are local motorists speeding up and down nearby Southwest Handley Street.

Would you like to tell us all again just how far away you are from any sort of "ghetto violence" and "animal behavior" you are up there in ME? Would you to tell us all again how people only act like thugs in black areas? Would you like to tell us all again that thuggish behavior never happens outside of impoverished urban areas? And of course the argument that shooting someone isn't looting won't hold water, because shooting and killing someone is obviously much more thuggish and violent behavior than breaking into and looting a store.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?463640-So-what-are-the-chances-of-a-random-encounter-with-a-cop-turning-bad&p=5710375#post5710375

I live in a wealthy area.

This isn't the first time you've made similar comments. It's getting old.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?463528-*OFFICIAL*-Ferguson-thread&p=5709988#post5709988

Ok so they came out of another St. Louis ghetto and looted there. Same difference, still doesn't effect me. Shit like that will never happen here.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?463590-Georgia-Man-Shoots-and-Kills-Driver-Who-Mistakenly-Pulled-Into-His-Driveway-No-Jail&p=5709321#post5709321

Excellent chance of being met with a gun around here for driving up the wrong driveway. Not much of a chance of getting shot at, folks are pretty reasonable but very cautious. My place is 1000 feet off the road and you can't see it from the road. Nobody should be up here that doesn't belong. But fwiw my drive is long enough google maps shows it as a road.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?463528-*OFFICIAL*-Ferguson-thread&p=5708823#post5708823

They don't speak for me.

I live in the oldest whitest state in the country by choice. Nobody is going to riot or loot here, ever.

Oh and fwiw I think the shooting was justified.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?463528-*OFFICIAL*-Ferguson-thread&p=5708777#post5708777

I don't care. They will riot, loot and burn their ghetto. Doesn't effect me.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?460085-1-in-4-Americans-open-to-secession&p=5653284#post5653284

My breakaway country would be VT NH ME along with NB and NS from Canada.

Pretty much nothing would ever happen there.

Weston White

11-28-2014, 01:56 AM

Everyone knows the police have the legal right to use lethal force. Anyone who's stupid enough to attack them had it coming.

And therein lays the problem, doesn't it now! Government employees have no such “rights”, but only justly applied ‘powers’ of public accountability.

Regardless as to Wilson’s own honesty and integrity, he placed himself in a situation that legally enabled him needlessly escalate his use of force up to and including killing another individual. Facts are:

1. Mr. Wilson violated about a half-a-dozen interdepartmental policies, including engaging a fleeing suspect without backup present, failing to instead trail back and broadcast over his radio descriptions and DOT updates, including setting a perimeter, possibly also for K9, less-lethal, and air-support to assist with the ‘legbail’ of felony suspect.

2. Of his own admission, rather than driving away to keep his distance, rather than his locking door, rather than getting out through the other side and running down the street to await for backup, he instead verbally threatened to shoot an unarmed suspect merely for approaching him to closely. Our common law courts have upheld time and time again that an individual has every right to defend themselves form the inappropriate conduct of a law enforcement officer—i.e., a badge, gun, uniform, and government employment does not provide one an ability to act out malevolently against others.

3. Here we go again with the whole tired, used up, and utterly cliche, he was acting like a wild, beastly, zombie demon analogy, snarling and growling at me, making fervent, irrational movements, towering above me at 400-pounds of solid muscle. Blah, blah, blah...Please now, stop, just stop with all of the Worldwar-Z bath salts lunacy.

4. Both men were of fairly equal physical stature, while Mr. Wilson was a certified LEO, trained and equipped to retrain suspects until cuffed and secured.

5. Getting your car window smashed out, door kicked in, and being on the receiving end of a couple of cheap blows to the face establish no where near the requisite legal justification to shoot the offending person once—let alone 10-times point-blank.

6. Mr. Wilson, his union, and his department knew that scene was handled flagrantly badly from start to finish, hence why they struck a deal for him to quietly leave from their service. Otherwise, he would have surely been promoted or at least pinned with a new piece of fascistic regalia.

7. It seems very much the case that Mr. Brown was negligently denied medical services for his injuries.

8. This incident—as the myriad of others very similar to it—is not all about racism, but about police overzealous, overt aggression, and wanton conspiracy to further excuse it while perpetuating it all costs.

GunnyFreedom

11-28-2014, 02:06 AM

5. Getting your car window smashed out, door kicked in, and being on the receiving end of a couple of cheap blows to the face establish no where near the requisite legal justification to shoot the offending person once—let alone 10-times point-blank.

I will call bovine fecus on this one. Start smashing my window, and a round center mass is one of several options I will immediately consider. And if that options seems the most appropriate, then I will take it without hesitation, and not a court in America will convict me. States with Castle Doctrine, some have extended to your vehicle. You are justified to use all deadly force to terminate an unlawful entry.

Weston White

11-28-2014, 03:13 AM

I will call bovine fecus on this one. Start smashing my window, and a round center mass is one of several options I will immediately consider. And if that options seems the most appropriate, then I will take it without hesitation, and not a court in America will convict me. States with Castle Doctrine, some have extended to your vehicle. You are justified to use all deadly force to terminate an unlawful entry.

With exception to probably only Texas, not if you could have just driven off or escaped through the other side instead. And it matters not what doctrine you rely upon 10-rounds (or more) from a .40 is excessive in any situation. Further keeping perspective on a person merely banging on your window with their fists as opposed to a person actually intending to smash out your window; and furthermore the reality of a person breaking out your window as an act of defiance, intimidation, or to get your attention as opposed to actually attempting to cause you physical harm.

H. E. Panqui

11-28-2014, 07:14 AM

One thing NEVER mentioned is the hideous nature, composition, etc., of 'the police department(s)'..'The departments' are composed of individuals who have sworn to 'uphold laws'..that begs the question, 'What kind of naive fool, crook, immoral go-along, etc. would swear to 'uphold' the miserable, stinking, ruinous, GD fool laws created/affirmed by the same stinking Republicrats who give us war and fraud galore?!?..

It seems the worst among us would be drawn like a moth to a flame to this 'profession'...and of course i know there are 'good ones'..:rolleyes:...

...but ime they tend to get out early...leaving the more/most immoral, stupid, etc.. to climb higher...sad but true..

jmdrake

11-28-2014, 07:34 AM

With exception to probably only Texas, not if you could have just driven off or escaped through the other side instead. And it matters not what doctrine you rely upon 10-rounds (or more) from a .40 is excessive in any situation. Further keeping perspective on a person merely banging on your window with their fists as opposed to a person actually intending to smash out your window; and furthermore the reality of a person breaking out your window as an act of defiance, intimidation, or to get your attention as opposed to actually attempting to cause you physical harm.

I'm with Gunny here. I don't care if all 50 states have a law that says "If someone smashes out your window and starts punching you then you can't shoot him", such a law is stupid. Did Mike Brown smash out the window? I've not read that. However, that's not the point in the encounter where Brown was killed. By all accounts Brown ran away. From that point on anything that happened at the car was irrelevant. Wilson could have called for backup and followed from a distance. Wilson could have used less lethal options like his police flashlight. And if Brown's hands were up when he was shot then the shooting was invalid.

Cissy

11-28-2014, 08:50 AM

acptulsa

11-28-2014, 09:03 AM

Let's see.

Abuser blames victim for victim's current situation. Check.

Abuser attempts to divert the victim's attention from the abuse onto another subject. Check.

Abuser downplays abuser's responsibility for the situation. Check.

Abuser claims abused created a situation where abuser had no choice but to abuse the abused. Check.

Abuser acts on the presumption that the abuser's rights far outweigh the rights of the abused. Check.

GunnyFreedom

11-28-2014, 01:42 PM

With exception to probably only Texas, not if you could have just driven off or escaped through the other side instead. And it matters not what doctrine you rely upon 10-rounds (or more) from a .40 is excessive in any situation. Further keeping perspective on a person merely banging on your window with their fists as opposed to a person actually intending to smash out your window; and furthermore the reality of a person breaking out your window as an act of defiance, intimidation, or to get your attention as opposed to actually attempting to cause you physical harm.

Actually, anywhere that castle doctrine extends to a motor vehicle, which does in fact include Texas, but other States as well. A primary point of Castle Doctrine (CD) is that any person lawfully in control (owner, person with owner's permission) over a CD domain (house, car) can use all available force, including deadly force, to terminate an unlawful entry. If at any point a reasonable person would believe that someone is trying to effect unlawful entry into your CD domain (house, car) you can terminate that trespass with deadly force.

I am more peaceful than most, but if you start breaking out my side window, especially as part of a mob, then expect to find a .40S&W hydroshock in a very uncomfortable spot within your thorax, because I'm not waiting until your hands are around my throat to ask what your intentions are.

GunnyFreedom

11-28-2014, 01:51 PM

I'm with Gunny here. I don't care if all 50 states have a law that says "If someone smashes out your window and starts punching you then you can't shoot him", such a law is stupid. Did Mike Brown smash out the window? I've not read that. However, that's not the point in the encounter where Brown was killed. By all accounts Brown ran away. From that point on anything that happened at the car was irrelevant. Wilson could have called for backup and followed from a distance. Wilson could have used less lethal options like his police flashlight. And if Brown's hands were up when he was shot then the shooting was invalid.

Correct. His "point #5" was not what happened in the Brown case. I am taking the point #5 in isolation as it was stated, and addressing it as it was written, and I am not relating it to the Brown case at all because that's just not what happened here. Taken as it is written, if someone is breaking into my car with me in it for whatever reason they are getting shot. A cop should have equal access to deadly force as I do. Sure as hell not MORE (which is the current situation) but not less either. the SAME. That's what 'a republican form of government' means after all. If *I* am going to be justified in shooting someone who was trying to break through my drivers side car window, then so would a cop in the same situation. It is important to note that this was NOT necessarily the situation Wilson found himself in.

Christian Liberty

11-28-2014, 02:11 PM

Correct. His "point #5" was not what happened in the Brown case. I am taking the point #5 in isolation as it was stated, and addressing it as it was written, and I am not relating it to the Brown case at all because that's just not what happened here. Taken as it is written, if someone is breaking into my car with me in it for whatever reason they are getting shot. A cop should have equal access to deadly force as I do. Sure as hell not MORE (which is the current situation) but not less either. the SAME. That's what 'a republican form of government' means after all. If *I* am going to be justified in shooting someone who was trying to break through my drivers side car window, then so would a cop in the same situation. It is important to note that this was NOT necessarily the situation Wilson found himself in.

I agree, the problem being that in many cases cops who are being attacked are not innocent. The reason I'm more sympathetic to Wilson is that he was seemingly attacked by a thief, which would mean the encounter wasn't inherently unjustified like many are.

JustinTime

11-28-2014, 06:12 PM

I'm not calling you racist, but I still think you're wrong. You act like there's no disadvantage to being black at all.

Its not generally, of course in certain select situations it would be , but then again in the right situation being white, or anything for that matter, could be a disadvantage. The idea that white privilege is real is bunk.

JustinTime

11-28-2014, 06:26 PM

Hearing Brown's side of the story is unnecessary, considering he attacked Wilson, who had the right to kill him.

I agree. Its just like the Zimmerman trial, Wilson being a cop is irrelevant and the only difference is that causes people on this forum to jump to conclusions.

In a lot of ways this place has become the police brutality forum.

otherone

11-28-2014, 06:43 PM

Its just like the Zimmerman trial, Wilson being a cop is irrelevant and the only difference is that causes people on this forum to jump to conclusions.

WAKE UP.
ZIMMERMAN HAD A TRIAL. WILSON DID NOT, BECAUSE HE'S A COP.

JustinTime

11-28-2014, 07:08 PM

WAKE UP.
ZIMMERMAN HAD A TRIAL. WILSON DID NOT, BECAUSE HE'S A COP.

The case was taken before a jury, they decided there wasn't enough evidence to go further. Its not as if he just shot the guy and rode off into the sunset.

You know what really tells the tale for me? Its that Eric Holder didn't do a damn thing, and apparently there will be no Federal civil rights charges. If that racist bigot couldn't find anything to go after a white cop who shot a black guy for, there isn't anything there.

Weston White

11-29-2014, 01:24 AM

Actually, anywhere that castle doctrine extends to a motor vehicle, which does in fact include Texas, but other States as well. A primary point of Castle Doctrine (CD) is that any person lawfully in control (owner, person with owner's permission) over a CD domain (house, car) can use all available force, including deadly force, to terminate an unlawful entry. If at any point a reasonable person would believe that someone is trying to effect unlawful entry into your CD domain (house, car) you can terminate that trespass with deadly force.

I am more peaceful than most, but if you start breaking out my side window, especially as part of a mob, then expect to find a .40S&W hydroshock in a very uncomfortable spot within your thorax, because I'm not waiting until your hands are around my throat to ask what your intentions are.

At any rate, by omitting the element of an imminent threat to life and reciprocating only a just degree of force to cease that threat, with exception to certain jurisdictions (e.g., Texas) will very likely result in criminal charges being brought against you, and regardless leaves you wide open to lose in civil actions.

While John Wayne/Clint Eastwood/Chuck Norris' strike-offensives might seem to be iconic Americanized manliness and all of that, applying such tactics will ultimately leave you poorly at the end of the day.

We all, as members of society, hold a duty to avoid the use of force when such use of force could otherwise be--reasonably--avoided through the cunning use of brainpower instead; such as simply driving away rather than perforating an aggressive with 10-bullets.

Generally, you hold a duty not to shoot somebody just because they have breach your “castle”, so long that it is not the invaders intent to commit a criminal act.

GunnyFreedom

11-29-2014, 01:31 AM

At any rate, by omitting the element of an imminent threat to life and reciprocating only a just degree of force to cease that threat, with exception to certain jurisdictions (e.g., Texas) will very likely result in criminal charges being brought against you, and regardless leaves you wide open to lose in civil actions.

While John Wayne/Clint Eastwood/Chuck Norris' strike-offensives might seem to be iconic Americanized manliness and all of that, applying such tactics will ultimately leave you poorly at the end of the day.

We all, as members of society, hold a duty to avoid the use of force when such use of force could otherwise be--reasonably--avoided through the cunning use of brainpower instead; such as simply driving away rather than perforating an aggressive with 10-bullets.

Generally, you hold a duty not to shoot somebody just because they have breach your “castle”, so long that it is not the invaders intent to commit a criminal act.

Sure, killing someone if there is no imminent threat is wrong, and you should go to jail for that. Unlawful entry is an imminent threat.

And you are wrong about Castle Doctrine

GunnyFreedom

11-29-2014, 01:34 AM

Castle Doctrine is the right to terminate unlawful entry, full stop. If the person is retreating to exit his unlawful entry, this is the only circumstance of Castle Doctrine when you do not have immunity.

eta IE - if you shot a guy in the back as he was going OUT the door, CD would not give you immunity.

Weston White

11-29-2014, 02:13 AM

And you are wrong about Castle Doctrine

No, I was comparing criminal statutes with civil liabilities; while noting it is best to hold oneself to a higher standard during such confrontations.

GunnyFreedom

11-29-2014, 02:31 AM

No, I was comparing criminal statutes with civil liabilities; while noting it is best to hold oneself to a higher standard during such confrontations.

It is always best to hold one's self to a higher standard. That shouldn't equal any reluctance to do whatever is needed to survive, however. In my experience, in 'the homeranch sheepdog' role, the more willing you are to kill, the less likely you will actually have to.

jmdrake

12-01-2014, 08:21 AM

The case was taken before a jury, they decided there wasn't enough evidence to go further. Its not as if he just shot the guy and rode off into the sunset.

You know what really tells the tale for me? Its that Eric Holder didn't do a damn thing, and apparently there will be no Federal civil rights charges. If that racist bigot couldn't find anything to go after a white cop who shot a black guy for, there isn't anything there.

Eric Holder didn't go after the killers of Miriam Carey and she was black and they shot her in the back 6 times after removing her baby out of the car. Also, just in case you didn't get the memo, Eric Holder resigned from being attorney general already. But hey, don't let the facts mess up your theory. :rolleyes: There were (at least) two credible witnesses (white and not from the area) that said Brown had his hands up when he was shot and video of them making that statement right after the incident which means that it's unlikely they just made that up. Under normal circumstances that would have equaled an indictment. It didn't because the prosecutor threw the indictment.

Edit: And for the record, the justice department is conducting a civil rights investigation. So it seems you (and DFF) are the ones jumping to conclusions.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/bombshell-evidence-laid-death-michael-brown-article-1.2022689
Typically, a grand jury panel hears evidence that points at the existence of probable cause that a crime was committed and almost always votes to indict. This one was presented with the entirety of evidence, and prosecutors did not recommend a particular charge be considered, as is the norm.

That St. Louis County prosecutors took such a different tack was the subject of criticism, with some accusing the office of shielding Wilson from a criminal rap.

McCulloch defended his handling of the matter and release of the material. He said that the case is no longer pending, so there was no reason to withhold the evidence.

"It is now a closed investigation," the prosecutor said.

The U.S. Justice Department is conducting a separate civil rights investigation.

Asked of his thoughts about the incident, Wilson said: "I think I'm just kind of in shock of what just happened, I really didn't believe it.”

jonhowe

12-01-2014, 10:34 AM

Its not generally, of course in certain select situations it would be , but then again in the right situation being white, or anything for that matter, could be a disadvantage. The idea that white privilege is real is bunk.

Except that it is significantly harder to get a job as a black person. Several studies have been done on the effect of "black names" on hiring practices; it's not pretty. And that all assumes identical resumes; the fact is that black areas tend to have lower quality schools and teachers.

Combine that with the fact that historical factors (and not so historical; see "The Drug War" for more on that) have lead to disproportionate levels of poverty among blacks (and poverty is a strong influence on crime rates) and we have a very clear picture that being black IS a disadvantage in this country. All the affirmative action (which doesn't really help much) in the world isn't going to change the fact that there IS a generation of fatherless black children thanks to the way policing is conducted in this country.

Poverty is a vicious cycle that does not end when Jim Crow style laws are repealed. This issue is going to be around for many, many years to come. Ending the drug war, pardoning/expunging all past non-violent drug crimes, and holding police accountable for their actions with independent review boards and body cameras would be a start, though.

JustinTime

12-04-2014, 06:18 PM

Eric Holder didn't go after the killers of Miriam Carey and she was black and they shot her in the back 6 times after removing her baby out of the car.

Yeah, but the media didn't turn that into a racial shitstorm, after all, she "threatened" Holy Obama.

Also, just in case you didn't get the memo, Eric Holder resigned from being attorney general already. But hey, don't let the facts mess up your theory. :rolleyes:

You don't know facts from last Tuesday. Holder is still AG, he only announced his intention to resign in September. I dont expect he will actually relinquish his duties until Obama finds a replacement.

Heres the link to the Dept. of Justice website: http://http://www.justice.gov/ag/meet-attorney-general-0 And heres a Wiki article:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder

JustinTime

12-04-2014, 06:21 PM

AuH20

12-04-2014, 06:45 PM

Its not generally, of course in certain select situations it would be , but then again in the right situation being white, or anything for that matter, could be a disadvantage. The idea that white privilege is real is bunk.

You aren't too far off. Being black may save your life in some encounters with police.

https://news.wsu.edu/2014/09/02/deadly-force-lab-finds-racial-disparities-in-shootings/#.VID_xDHF8rd

SPOKANE, Wash. – Participants in an innovative Washington State University study of deadly force were more likely to feel threatened in scenarios involving black people. But when it came time to shoot, participants were biased in favor of black suspects, taking longer to pull the trigger against them than against armed white or Hispanic suspects.

The findings, published in the recent Journal of Experimental Criminology, grow out of dozens of simulations aimed at explaining the disproportionate number of ethnic and racial minorities shot by police. The studies use the most advanced technology available, as participants with laser-equipped guns react to potentially threatening scenarios displayed in full-size, high-definition video.

The findings surprised Lois James, lead author and assistant research professor at WSU Spokane’s Sleep and Performance Research Center. Other, less realistic studies have found people are more willing to think a black person has a gun instead of a tool and will more readily push a “shoot” button against a potentially armed black person.

The findings also run counter to the public perception, heightened with the recent shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., that police are more willing to shoot black suspects. Statistics show that police shoot ethnic and racial minorities disproportionately to their population.

AuH20

12-04-2014, 07:00 PM

Except that it is significantly harder to get a job as a black person. Several studies have been done on the effect of "black names" on hiring practices; it's not pretty. And that all assumes identical resumes; the fact is that black areas tend to have lower quality schools and teachers.

Combine that with the fact that historical factors (and not so historical; see "The Drug War" for more on that) have lead to disproportionate levels of poverty among blacks (and poverty is a strong influence on crime rates) and we have a very clear picture that being black IS a disadvantage in this country. All the affirmative action (which doesn't really help much) in the world isn't going to change the fact that there IS a generation of fatherless black children thanks to the way policing is conducted in this country.

Poverty is a vicious cycle that does not end when Jim Crow style laws are repealed. This issue is going to be around for many, many years to come. Ending the drug war, pardoning/expunging all past non-violent drug crimes, and holding police accountable for their actions with independent review boards and body cameras would be a start, though.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1261

In mid-1960s America, the nation's out-of-wedlock birth rate (which stood at 7.7 percent at the time) began a rapid and relentless climb across all demographic lines, a climb that would continue unabated until 1994, when the Welfare Reform Act put the brakes on that trend. Today the overall American illegitimacy rate is about 33 percent (26 percent for whites). For blacks, it hovers at near 70 percent—approximately three times the level of black illegitimacy that existed when the War on Poverty began in 1964.

Since the black illegitimacy rate is so high, these pathologies plague blacks more than they affect any other demographic. “Even if white people were to become morally rejuvenated tomorrow,” writes black economist and professor Walter E. Williams, “it would do nothing for the problems plaguing a large segment of the black community. Illegitimacy, family breakdown, crime, and fraudulent education are devastating problems, but they are not civil rights problems.”

The civil-rights establishment, however, paints a very different picture, characterizing such problems as nothing more than by-products of white racism. That view, through decades of constant repetition, has won the minds of many black Americans. “Instead of admitting that racism has declined,” observes Shelby Steele, “we [blacks] argue all the harder that it is still alive and more insidious than ever. We hold race up to shield us from what we do not want to see in ourselves.”

ExPatPaki

12-05-2014, 10:56 AM

Ferguson: The Problem Isn’t Black People

America has done a pretty good job of getting the middle class to fear poor black guys instead of rich white men.

Consider Mike Brown Exhibit, oh I don’t know, 1,000,001.

Because that’s a rough guesstimate the number of African-American men currently enmeshed in the gears of the US penal system, incarcerated in prisons, held in jails , on probation, or on parole or, in sum, as the Pew Charitable Trust put it in 2009, “under correctional control.”

.
Correctional control rates are highly concentrated by race and geography: 1 in 11 black adults (9.2 percent) versus 1 in 27 Hispanic adults (3.7 percent) and 1 in 45 white adults (2.2 percent); 1 in 18 men (5.5 percent) versus 1 in 89 women (1.1 percent). The rates can be extremely high in certain neighborhoods. In one block-group of Detroit's East Side, for example, 1 in 7 adult men (14.3 percent) is under correctional control.

The black adult male population aged 18 to 64 roughs out at about 12 million x 9.2%, well you get the picture.

More recent data for incarceration rates are at the U.S. government’s Bureau of Justice Statistics:

Imprisonment rate ofsentenced state and federal prisoners per 100,000 U.S. residents, by sex, race,Hispanic origin, and age,

Total 478
Male 904 White 466 Black 2,805 Hispanic 1,134 Other 963
Female 65 White 51 Black 113 Hispanic 66 Other 90

In other words, black male adults are six times more likely to be in prison than the population as a whole, three times more than the average for the male population. More than one third of the state and federal prison population (540,000+ out of about 1.5 million) is black.

As to whether this is an unfortunate coincidence born of particular patterns of misbehavior among African Americans, I have my doubts.

Fact is, to characterize this issue as fundamentally one of racism—though excellent and important work has done on the persistence of racism and its role in selective enforcement and incarceration, particularly in the area of drug laws--may, in my opinion, actually miss the point.

Maybe it reflects the use of race-biased law enforcement to reinforce the narrative that America’s problem is Mr. African-American Adult Male…

…while the problem—and the solution—may actually be somewhere else.

My personal suspicion is that the US political and social system has a vested interest in black alienation.

Maybe it is good politics to abuse African Americans, goad and provoke them, escalate the fear and anger on both sides, force an angry reaction and respond with a fear-laden counterreaction, so an economically disadvantaged community has its hands full staying out of jail and not getting shot, and isn’t thinking about forming common cause with other disadvantaged or less-advantaged groups to stick it to the rich guy in the next election.

In other words, it’s not Fear of a Black Voting Bloc; it’s Fear of a Unified Lower & Middle Class Voting Bloc.

And alienation cuts both ways.

Other groups are more concerned with the undeniable and understandable anger in the black community, and worrying about its consequences for them—and looking out for Number 1--than they are in finding common ground.

One of the most interesting transitions occurred in the 1990s, as far as I can remember. Old fashioned Democratic liberalism and its doppelganger, noblesse oblige white shoe Republicanism, fell by the wayside. I associated old liberalism with the idea that problems existed in society, and it was up to an enlightened electorate to remedy them using the interventionist power of the government as channeled and constrained by the constitution. Silly me.

What came after, with the collapse of communism, I guess, and its perceived challenge to the Western formula for social justice, was the idea of neo-liberalism, that there was a near-perfect set of constitutional, electoral, and economic mechanisms, and interference with those mechanisms is what caused the problems. So it was up to disadvantaged groups to use the machinery properly, and up to the society to enforce the criminal and political rules that kept the bad, the greedy, and misguided from gumming up the works. System’s workin’ but some people ain’t working hard enough. That’s the problem.

If my model’s right, black political agency was attacked pretty much the same way that the union power was destroyed, by demonizing its demands as false entitlement and denigrating its needs as a call for privilege that degraded the overall functioning and fairness of the system.

In other words, it’s up to America’s most marginalized, underprivileged, and over-incarcerated minority to solve its problems before we can talk about shared problems. In other words, never gonna happen. And for some people, that’s just fine.

Not just the hyper rich.

For Mr. White Middle Class Americans, pressure’s off. Just sit back and let the miracle of liberal free market democracy work while the cops keep the troublemakers bottled up. We’ll cut your taxes and put more cops on the streets. Hell, I’ll take that deal. Hell, I took that deal.

But the problems—the alienation—seems to be getting worse instead of better.

So it doesn’t seem surprising that the system might have a vested interest in encouraging and escalating black alienation, so it makes sense that local police are shooting and killing young black men, women, and children.

As to whether this was a conscious plan or some ineluctable alchemy of class and race relations, well, I guess I’ll leave that to the philosophers for a while.

But for the time being, I guess the message is Black Lives Matter More Than White Privilege. That includes Mike Brown’s life…and my privileges.

http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/2014/11/ferguson-problem-isnt-black-people.html