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tangent4ronpaul
11-24-2014, 06:24 AM
Anonymous hackers to Ferguson police: ‘We are the law now’
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/21/anonymous-hackers-to-ferguson-police-we-are-the-la/

Two Twitter accounts belonging to the Ku Klux Klan have been taken over by the hacker collective known as Anonymous (logo pictured), after the white supremacist group threatened to use "lethal force" against looters and vandals in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson. (Twitter/Anonymous)

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/image/anonymousjpeg/#ixzz3JzJNVIWO
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Hackers with the group, Anonymous, sent a stark message to police in Ferguson, as well as to Ku Klux Klan members assembled at the scene, to be on guard — that any injuries to protesters will be duly noted.

“To the KKK and police: kkk-in-new-video-we-are-the-law-now/” target=”_blank”>Be peaceful or you will fee the consequences,” the hacking group said in a video reported by The Free Thought Project. “To the protesters: Do not be afraid. We are here for you and will protect and serve you. We are the law now.”

The video was actually a response to one sent out by Frank Ancona with the Traditionalist American Knights of the KKK that vowed to “hunt down” members of Anonymous, Raw Story reported.

In that video, the KKK warned the hackers: “You’ll be strung up next to the chimps. On display for the whole world to see. The Klan is to be feared, not threatened. Turn away or face the consequences.”

Anonymous and the KKK have been engaged in a public battle for some time. The hacking group took over the Klan’s Twitter account just recently, and revealed the names and addresses of KKK members living near Ferguson.

The hackers’ video then suggested the KKK refrain from aiding police with crowd control in Ferguson.

“If you attempt to aid the police, just know that there are more of us out there than there are of you,” the group said in its video, Raw Story reported. “But you will not know who we are. We are everywhere. We are among the protesters, and we are among you.”

and then there are the New Black Panthers, the FBI, DHS (at least 100 each), over 1,000 cops and the national guard... :eek:

-t

tod evans
11-24-2014, 06:35 AM
3424

alucard13mm
11-24-2014, 06:45 AM
I kinda don't really see what is the big deal about Ferguson... There are far worse cop on civilian crimes that are more clear cut. This case is too muddy and unclear to determine who is at fault.

This guy's life and/or death is inconsequential compared to deaths from drones, other cop on civilian killings and other events that kills shit ton of people.

phill4paul
11-24-2014, 06:50 AM
I kinda don't really see what is the big deal about Ferguson... There are far worse cop on civilian crimes that are more clear cut. This case is too muddy and unclear to determine who is at fault.

This guy's life and/or death is inconsequential compared to deaths from drones, other cop on civilian killings and other events that kills shit ton of people.

Tell that to the face of these people....

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ap_lesley_mcspadden_michael_brown_mother_jc_140818 _16x9_992.jpg

Uriel999
11-24-2014, 08:03 AM
Sounds like all the departments at the FBI are not communicating....

Ender
11-24-2014, 09:14 AM
I kinda don't really see what is the big deal about Ferguson... There are far worse cop on civilian crimes that are more clear cut. This case is too muddy and unclear to determine who is at fault.

This guy's life and/or death is inconsequential compared to deaths from drones, other cop on civilian killings and other events that kills shit ton of people.

Maybe because this community actually took a stand?

Also- all human life is precious- no loss is "inconsequential".

jmdrake
11-24-2014, 09:48 AM
Tell that to the face of these people....

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ap_lesley_mcspadden_michael_brown_mother_jc_140818 _16x9_992.jpg

Tell me why their loss is somehow worse than hers.

http://sandrarose.com/images19/miriam-carey-550x282.jpg

Their son robbed someone. He was jaywalking when he got accosted by the police. If everything else those who are against the police say is true, that still doesn't change the fact that he could have totally avoided the situation. Yet Miriam Carey didn't do anything wrong except make a wrong turn and then panic and as a result she was shot in the back of the head execution style and there will be no riots for her. Why not?

There will be no riots for this baby either.

http://static2.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1850977.1404240770!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/raid2n-3-web.jpg

Burned beyond recognition by a SWAT no knock raid. Why aren't people up in arms about that?

There were no riots for this man either.

http://universalfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/01-kelly-1.jpg

See...here's the deal. The media picks and chooses what things to make an "issue". So do the fake civil rights husksters (Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson). If they picked cases o police brutality where the victim had a clean record to get upset over, the average white person might actually start giving a crap. But they pick people like Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown to highlight. Folks with questionable backgrounds so they bubous Americanus can say "Oh he brought it on himself." (Granted there are some idiots that say that about Kelly Thomas, but they're idiots and beyond hope.)

phill4paul
11-24-2014, 09:59 AM
Tell me why their loss is somehow worse than hers.

http://sandrarose.com/images19/miriam-carey-550x282.jpg

Their son robbed someone. He was jaywalking when he got accosted by the police. If everything else those who are against the police say is true, that still doesn't change the fact that he could have totally avoided the situation. Yet Miriam Carey didn't do anything wrong except make a wrong turn and then panic and as a result she was shot in the back of the head execution style and there will be no riots for her. Why not?

There will be no riots for this baby either.

http://static2.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1850977.1404240770!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/raid2n-3-web.jpg

Burned beyond recognition by a SWAT no knock raid. Why aren't people up in arms about that?

There were no riots for this man either.

http://universalfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/01-kelly-1.jpg

See...here's the deal. The media picks and chooses what things to make an "issue". So do the fake civil rights husksters (Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson). If they picked cases o police brutality where the victim had a clean record to get upset over, the average white person might actually start giving a crap. But they pick people like Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown to highlight. Folks with questionable backgrounds so they bubous Americanus can say "Oh he brought it on himself." (Granted there are some idiots that say that about Kelly Thomas, but they're idiots and beyond hope.)

See..here's the deal. No taking of a life is inconsequential to those that love them. That was my point. My only point.

Christian Liberty
11-24-2014, 10:12 AM
Tell that to the face of these people....

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ap_lesley_mcspadden_michael_brown_mother_jc_140818 _16x9_992.jpg

Here's the thing. If (and I realize this is a big if) Brown was actually being arrested for a real crime such as burglary, and if he did in fact try to pull a weapon on the police officer, I wouldn't blame Wilson for doing whatever he had to do to protect himself.

Mind you, I don't like police, but theft is not a victimless crime.

I don't know exactly what happened, which is why I haven't been commenting.

Christian Liberty
11-24-2014, 10:15 AM
Tell me why their loss is somehow worse than hers.

http://sandrarose.com/images19/miriam-carey-550x282.jpg

Their son robbed someone. He was jaywalking when he got accosted by the police. If everything else those who are against the police say is true, that still doesn't change the fact that he could have totally avoided the situation. Yet Miriam Carey didn't do anything wrong except make a wrong turn and then panic and as a result she was shot in the back of the head execution style and there will be no riots for her. Why not?

There will be no riots for this baby either.

http://static2.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1850977.1404240770!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/raid2n-3-web.jpg

Burned beyond recognition by a SWAT no knock raid. Why aren't people up in arms about that?

There were no riots for this man either.

http://universalfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/01-kelly-1.jpg

See...here's the deal. The media picks and chooses what things to make an "issue". So do the fake civil rights husksters (Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson). If they picked cases o police brutality where the victim had a clean record to get upset over, the average white person might actually start giving a crap. But they pick people like Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown to highlight. Folks with questionable backgrounds so they bubous Americanus can say "Oh he brought it on himself." (Granted there are some idiots that say that about Kelly Thomas, but they're idiots and beyond hope.)

Agreed. I think its purposeful that they pick the questionable backgrounds, actually. Call me a "conspiracy theorist" but that definitely makes things easier for the "pro-cop" people.

Did Michael Brown need to die? Did Trayvon Martin? I'm going to be honest and say I don't know. I'm not saying it can't be known, just that I am not currently informed of all the facts. I remember it seemed to me at the time that George Zimmerman was innocent, at least in so far as I think there was definitely reasonable doubt.

Wilson, as a cop, is on the wrong side, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was wrong here either. It depends on the facts.

On the other hand, I have no idea how anyone could defend the death of Kelly Thomas, or the baby who got grenaded... which is why they don't talk about those...

phill4paul
11-24-2014, 10:19 AM
Here's the thing. If (and I realize this is a big if) Brown was actually being arrested for a real crime such as burglary, and if he did in fact try to pull a weapon on the police officer, I wouldn't blame Wilson for doing whatever he had to do to protect himself.

Mind you, I don't like police, but theft is not a victimless crime.

I don't know exactly what happened, which is why I haven't been commenting.

Here's the thing. I was only pointing out that the death of a parents child is hardly "inconsequential." For whatever reason.

I think it would probably be a good time for you to catch up on this case. :p Brown never had, nor was ever accused, of having a gun.

cajuncocoa
11-24-2014, 10:29 AM
The Michael Brown case, just as the Trayvon Martin case before this, is not being played out as one of excessive police force against the general population....something we see every day in topics on this board.

It's being played out as excessive force by a white officer on a black victim...the media are playing the race card, deliberately playing emotions to get whites to take the side of the police officer in the case. As I see it, whites and blacks alike are falling for it.

tod evans
11-24-2014, 10:31 AM
As I see it, whites and blacks alike are falling for it.

The proverbial fiddles......:(

jonhowe
11-24-2014, 10:37 AM
Here's the thing. If (and I realize this is a big if) Brown was actually being arrested for a real crime such as burglary, and if he did in fact try to pull a weapon on the police officer, I wouldn't blame Wilson for doing whatever he had to do to protect himself.

Mind you, I don't like police, but theft is not a victimless crime.

I don't know exactly what happened, which is why I haven't been commenting.

Brown was not being arrested. Brown was not accused of burglary until well after his death. Brown did not have a weapon to pull?

Where are you getting this BS from??

GunnyFreedom
11-24-2014, 10:46 AM
Here's the thing. If (and I realize this is a big if) Brown was actually being arrested for a real crime such as burglary, and if he did in fact try to pull a weapon on the police officer, I wouldn't blame Wilson for doing whatever he had to do to protect himself.

Mind you, I don't like police, but theft is not a victimless crime.

I don't know exactly what happened, which is why I haven't been commenting.

And that's the whole point, isn't it? The ones that get blown all out of proportion, eat up multiple news cycles over and over and over again, and trigger riots and looting and such are all vague and ambiguous.

the obvious ones don't get the attention, don't get the news cycles, and don't get the riots.

I don't necessarily know that it is intentional insofar as "making the police lives easier" but it MUST be intentional at least insofar as they feel they can make a larger profit off of the ambiguous ones. It's too obvious to NOT be intentional at least in one respect or another.

Brian4Liberty
11-24-2014, 11:33 AM
Brown was not being arrested. Brown was not accused of burglary until well after his death. Brown did not have a weapon to pull?

Where are you getting this BS from??

IIRC, some of the evidence eventually released in the case has indicated that the cop had communicated with the dispatcher about the strong arm incident before he saw him in the street. Part of his defense, of course.

thoughtomator
11-24-2014, 11:42 AM
Sounds like all the departments at the FBI are not communicating....

Some people won't get that, but I did. Today's KKK and "Anonymous" are probably both FBI operations.

Brian4Liberty
11-24-2014, 11:49 AM
I don't necessarily know that it is intentional insofar as "making the police lives easier" but it MUST be intentional at least insofar as they feel they can make a larger profit off of the ambiguous ones. It's too obvious to NOT be intentional at least in one respect or another.

Divide, distract, demonize.

Standard Marxist tactic, and the media is now dominated by those from the Marxist tradition. A case like this serves a dual purpose. It helps rating because it is sensational and they can draw it out for so long, and then there is the political tactic of divide and conquer.

There was a time in the past where they would be interested in making this about the Police or military (go back to the 60s), but now it just needs to be racial. They hold the reins of power now, so the Police will not be highlighted too much. Like the military, the Police are useful to those in power. Kissinger famously summarized that mindset with his quote "dumb, stupid animals to be used". Miriam Carey serves as another example. That case was so close to the seat of power that no criticism of the Praetorian guard was uttered.

Brian4Liberty
11-24-2014, 11:51 AM
Some people won't get that, but I did. Today's KKK and "Anonymous" are probably both FBI operations.

And the KKK plays perfectly into the divide, distract and demonize narrative.

enhanced_deficit
11-24-2014, 12:06 PM
Tell that to the face of these people....




Imagine what will be their reaction if US Congress gave standing ovasion to the cop (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/07/10/330498423/no-charges-for-police-who-killed-woman-after-d-c-chase) who killed their son?

phill4paul
11-24-2014, 12:11 PM
Imagine what will be their reaction if US Congress gave standing ovasion to the cop (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/07/10/330498423/no-charges-for-police-who-killed-woman-after-d-c-chase) who killed their son?

I'm well aware.

jmdrake
11-24-2014, 03:06 PM
And that's the whole point, isn't it? The ones that get blown all out of proportion, eat up multiple news cycles over and over and over again, and trigger riots and looting and such are all vague and ambiguous.

the obvious ones don't get the attention, don't get the news cycles, and don't get the riots.

I don't necessarily know that it is intentional insofar as "making the police lives easier" but it MUST be intentional at least insofar as they feel they can make a larger profit off of the ambiguous ones. It's too obvious to NOT be intentional at least in one respect or another.

^This. It seems like a reverse of Rosa Parks. MLK picked Rosa Parks to sit down on the bus because she didn't have a questionable background. And she made sure not to do anything that would make her arrest questionable. But it seems that the media purposefully makes issues over cases were people will argue about. That way half of the country is defending the police state while the other half is temporarily against it.

jmdrake
11-24-2014, 03:12 PM
Brown was not being arrested. Brown was not accused of burglary until well after his death. Brown did not have a weapon to pull?

Where are you getting this BS from??

Actually the officer was aware of the robbery (not burglary) and very possibly saw the cigar box. Plus Brown and his buddy were jaywalking and bringing attention to themselves. And you're a prick for giving me a neg rep for daring to care about Miriam Carey, a baby that got flash banged, and Kelly Thomas. All of those stories were more worthy of coverage than Mike Brown. When Carey was shot she had stopped driving and the cops had enough control over the situation to pull her baby out before shooting her in the back of the head. I agree that the media isn't going to pay attention. That's my point. She, the baby and Kelly Thomas did nothing wrong. The media has chosen to ignore those stories. A neg rep back at you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y79CEx0sxA

jonhowe
11-24-2014, 03:27 PM
And you're a prick for giving me a neg rep... A neg rep back act you.


Wahhhh wahhhh :( Not a neg rep!


Read what I said in my rep comment. I didn't say she deserved to die. I said that you are never going to get traction by bringing it up, because the video of the incident that was played far and wide appears so damning. She did not deserve to die, but it's a lot harder to convince people of that when there's video of what looks like her trying to run down cops in her car. It's a Sisyphean issue; we have to pick our battles.

For example, the media did NOT ignore the baby flash bang story:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/georgia-toddler-induced-coma-after-being-hurt-police-grenade-n119046
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/us/georgia-toddler-stun-grenade-no-indictment/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/30/toddler-severely-burned-in-drug-raid-in-georgia/

We, as a country/movement, failed to keep up the momentum behind it. You want people protesting and getting attention? That's on us. You want confrontations with police in order to get FURTHER attention? That's on us too. For some reason this movement would rather protect crotchety cattle ranchers than protest for little kids.

CNN didn't just "decide" to cover ferguson; they followed the ratings, IE, money. People were ALL OVER social media with "Hands Up Don't Shoot" and "Justice for Mike Brown". Protesters and progressive activists got in their cars, loaded into buses, and WENT there. People with an agenda in mind (most positive, some not) made this a national news story. This movement needs to figure out how to do THAT, and it simply won't happen in Miriam's case, sadly.

jmdrake
11-24-2014, 04:51 PM
Wahhhh wahhhh :( Not a neg rep!

Whatever dude. I called you out on the neg rep because it was a cowardly move. If you wanted to say something negative about what I posted you could have just said it here in the thread. Neg reps like the one you gave are for cowards who want to throw rocks and hide their hands.



Read what I said in my rep comment. I didn't say she deserved to die.


I read it. I didn't say you said she deserved to die. This is what you said.

No one is going to pick up on the Miriam Carey thing. She looked like she was trying to run people over. Even if she wasn't, it looked close enough that there is never going to be steam behind that one.

And ^that is bullshit. I watched the video. She did not look like she was trying to run anybody over. It wasn't "close enough" for anything. She looked like she was trying to drive away, not run anyone over. And when they murdered her in cold blood the car was stopped and they pulled the baby out of the car first meaning they had complete control over the entire situation!



I said that you are never going to get traction by bringing it up, because the video of the incident that was played far and wide appears so damning.

Except it's not at all damning. And the video of Mike Brown beating up the store clerk has been played or and over again.



She did not deserve to die, but it's a lot harder to convince people of that when there's video of what looks like her trying to run down cops in her car. It's a Sisyphean issue; we have to pick our battles.


"We" who? Pick your own battle I'll pick mine thank you very much. If you want to get in the race baiting BS bandwaggon that is the Mike Brown circus go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you. But Miriam Carey was killed after the car was stopped. The video of the witness saying that has been "played all over". However because Obama is a black president and the media is behind him the full truth of the story hasn't been pushed.



For example, the media did NOT ignore the baby flash bang story:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/georgia-toddler-induced-coma-after-being-hurt-police-grenade-n119046
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/us/georgia-toddler-stun-grenade-no-indictment/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/30/toddler-severely-burned-in-drug-raid-in-georgia/


Okay. ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING? I posted a link to the story myself so I'm not claiming it wasn't reported at all. The fact that witnesses heard bombs going off on 9/11 was "reported", but it was ignored as in it didn't become part of the 24 hour "We'll talk about it over and over again until everybody knows about it" news cycle. That is what I mean by "ignored". Let me know when the flashbang kid is on the cover of Time and Newsweek. Let me know when it's blowing up twitter and Facebook and everybody is talking about it because the media has made sure this kid's name is a household word.



We, as a country/movement, failed to keep up the momentum behind it. You want people protesting and getting attention? That's on us. You want confrontations with police in order to get FURTHER attention? That's on us too. For some reason this movement would rather protect crotchety cattle ranchers than protest for little kids.

:rolleyes: That's why I'm bringing it up! That's why I and others are bringing up Miriam Carey. And rather than taking the time to push past your own ignorance about that story, you want to come down on those trying to get the truth out about it.



CNN didn't just "decide" to cover ferguson; they followed the ratings, IE, money. People were ALL OVER social media with "Hands Up Don't Shoot" and "Justice for Mike Brown". Protesters and progressive activists got in their cars, loaded into buses, and WENT there. People with an agenda in mind (most positive, some not) made this a national news story. This movement needs to figure out how to do THAT, and it simply won't happen in Miriam's case, sadly.

Well it certainly won't happen if people like yourself don't educate yourself about what happened with Miriam Carey nor will it happen if you waste the energy of those of us being productive regarding Carey or the flash bang kid or Kelly Thomas by having to argue with you about stupid stuff. And for the record one of the main people pushing the Mike Brown story is Al Sharpton and he works for CNN. If you think this was just a case of "It got a lot of Twitter hits" you're kidding yourself.

jmdrake
11-24-2014, 04:57 PM
More or Carey.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EgSRSBPuP4

Looked like she was trying to run cops over my ass! And note the witness on CNN saying the baby was pulled out before the cops shot her. That's enough for Al Sharpton to go to town if he actually cared about black people.

parocks
11-24-2014, 04:58 PM
Sounds like all the departments at the FBI are not communicating....

Or, it's a skit. Will there be dancing?

jonhowe
11-24-2014, 05:08 PM
Whatever dude. I called you out on the neg rep because it was a cowardly move.


I thought rep comments were a way of communicating with one user in particular without having to change/derail an ongoing discussion. That is what I attempted to do, as you were already in the process of derailing the discussion. If I had slashed your tires or firebombed your house, yeah, cowardly move. All I did was send you a text based message over the internet that has zero intrinsic value outside the words themselves (which you saw fit to bring up and then repost, further derailing the discussion). Maybe I've been misunderstanding the point of the rep system, and maybe my actions actually pushed pins into a voodoo doll of you somewhere that I was unaware of. If so, I apologize.




"We" who? Pick your own battle I'll pick mine thank you very much.

We as in the (rather disorganized, by design) movement that spawned out of the Ron Paul campaigns.

If you choose this battle, more power to you. Make a thread about it; this one isn't. I think what happened to Miriam Carey is a disgrace that SHOULD have outraged the nation. It didn't. It won't. I hope I'm wrong and you somehow change that, but I'll direct my efforts elsewhere. The Michael Brown fallout, for example, which has done a GREAT deal to raise awareness about police overreach and brutality, from both the shooting itself to the protests afterwards.

Note: The video you (reposted) is exactly what I'm talking about. There are officers on/near/around/in front of her car when she peels out to get away. Her instinct to do so is understandable, especially given the outcome, but that shot (no pun intended) alone is going to put an end to most discussions for most people. As it already has, sadly.

Natural Citizen
11-24-2014, 05:11 PM
We as in the (rather disorganized, by design) movement that spawned out of the Ron Paul campaigns.



Actually, I'm damned organized if'n I do say so myself. :D

jmdrake
11-24-2014, 05:14 PM
I thought rep comments were a way of communicating with one user in particular without having to change/derail an ongoing discussion.

That's what a PM is for.



That is what I attempted to do, as you were already in the process of derailing the discussion.

I haven't "derailed" jack. I'm making a valid point about the discussion and that is that the media, including their part time commentator / part time "activists" types like Al Sharpton, are picking and choosing the cases of police brutality with the least sympathetic victims to highlight.


Note: The video you (reposted) is exactly what I'm talking about. There are officers on/near/around/in front of her car when she peels out to get away. Her instinct to do so is understandable, especially given the outcome, but that shot (no pun intended) alone is going to put an end to most discussions for most people. As it already has, sadly.

Peel off? Or you nuts? This is someone peeling off.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH7OijT-izY

Anyone with half a brain could tell she was simply trying to get away and that the cops were trying to block her exit. Besides they didn't shoot while her car was moving towards them. Further the fact that she was shot after they had control of the situation is enough to negate such a piss poor misreading of the video. Most people don't know she was killed after she was stopped and the cops were able to go into her car and pull the baby out. But hey, if a video showing the victim in a negative light is enough to "end most discussions for most people" then.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5ga8xM8W4M

enhanced_deficit
11-24-2014, 05:18 PM
Just when you thought it could not get any more complicated:

Officer Darren Wilson gets married to fellow Ferguson cop (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?463703-Officer-Darren-Wilson-gets-married-to-fellow-Ferguson-cop&)

Occam's Banana
11-24-2014, 05:21 PM
I thought rep comments were a way of communicating with one user in particular without having to change/derail an ongoing discussion. That is what I attempted to do, as you were already in the process of derailing the discussion. If I had slashed your tires or firebombed your house, yeah, cowardly move. All I did was send you a text based message over the internet that has zero intrinsic value outside the words themselves (which you saw fit to bring up and then repost, further derailing the discussion). Maybe I've been misunderstanding the point of the rep system, and maybe my actions actually pushed pins into a voodoo doll of you somewhere that I was unaware of. If so, I apologize.

Neg-repping people is an antagonistically counter-productive way to go about communicating with other users.

The PM subsystem is for communicating with other forum members "out of thread": http://www.ronpaulforums.com/private.php?do=newpm

tod evans
11-24-2014, 05:24 PM
Neg-repping people is an antagonistically counter-productive way to go about communicating with other users.

The PM subsystem is for communicating with other forum members "out of thread."

Adding to this, intelligent counterpoints are always welcome to be discussed..

Best make sure they're actually intelligent though...;)

Antischism
11-24-2014, 05:33 PM
Uh, this case is much bigger than Mike Brown at this point. I don't understand the point in bringing up other cases of police injustice and saying, "But why didn't people get upset when this happened?!" Sure, they should have, but it didn't happen and generally, the public places low value on the life of black people. Here we have a community standing up to police injustice and expressing their frustrations, which the black community in particular knows very well, and there are people who want to play it down, make excuses, focus on "rioting and looting," push it aside as some "media created race thing." No, this is what the country needs more of. We need outrage and protests against police. We need to be vocal and make this an issue every chance we get. Yes, it is absolutely a race issue. I'm tired of people who think we live in some post-racial America and dismiss everything as "race baiting" because they're too afraid to admit that there's a big problem. Just because there are idiots like Al Sharpton around, it doesn't dismiss the real problems faced by minorities due to systemic and even latent racism in those apparently there to "serve and protect." It's bullshit. These people protesting in Ferguson are your allies.

jonhowe
11-24-2014, 05:35 PM
That's what a PM is for.



Did I send a message? Was it private? Could you read it? WTF is the difference?? Is it just the vanity of the little green bars? If that's it, I'll give you a plus rep when I next can just to get you off my ass! Jesus this is becoming asinine.

EDIT: There. Done. Enjoy. See, everything is better now.


Peel off? Or you nuts? This is someone peeling off.

... are you trying to make my point for me? The car in the video here just didn't do it as well! And if I am actually using the term incorrectly, feel free to assume I meant "speed off in a reckless manner", which from any reasonable point of view, she did. However, as you point out, that is not worthy of the death penalty.



Anyone with half a brain could tell she was simply trying to get away and that the cops were trying to block her exit. Besides they didn't shoot why her car was moving towards them. Further the fact that she was shot after they had control of the situation is enough to negate such a piss poor misreading of the video. Most people don't know she was killed after she was stopped and the cops were able to go into her car and pull the baby out.


I don't disagree with anything you say there. You're right that it's an outrage. You're wrong to think people will be outraged at this point. Sorry. It sucks, but (I'm pretty confident) it's true.



But hey, if a video showing the victim in a negative light is enough to "end most discussions for most people" then...


If the store clerk had chased Mr Brown and shot him, that would be a fair analogy (and you can rest assured there'd be much less outrage). Instead, a cop who had no way of knowing if this was or was not the person accused of a crime was the shooter. Also, in Miriam Carey's case, she was considered to have a deadly weapon, her car. Brown had no weapon. Not saying I agree with these distinctions, but I accept them as real for others and have no interest in spitting into the wind.

jonhowe
11-24-2014, 05:38 PM
Neg-repping people is an antagonistically counter-productive way to go about communicating with other users.


That's why it's featured on the left hand side of every post?

I give up. It's a fucking green bar, people. I'm trying to express an opinion to another user privately, and we're getting upset over green bars. Awesome. Time well spent.

GunnyFreedom
11-24-2014, 05:42 PM
Neg-repping people is an antagonistically counter-productive way to go about communicating with other users.

The PM subsystem is for communicating with other forum members "out of thread": http://www.ronpaulforums.com/private.php?do=newpm

every once in a blue moon it just has to be done though. I think I've given out 5 negreps the entire time we've had a rep system. My recent one was to someone I actually like. :(

jmdrake
11-24-2014, 05:59 PM
Did I send a message? Was it private? Could you read it? WTF is the difference?? Is it just the vanity of the little green bars? If that's it, I'll give you a plus rep when I next can just to get you off my ass! Jesus this is becoming asinine.

EDIT: There. Done. Enjoy. See, everything is better now.


I honestly don't care. I made a comment about the neg rep to bring that part of the discussion out in the open. If you want to be "negative" about something I say then say it in the open.



... are you trying to make my point for me? The car in the video here just didn't do it as well! And if I am actually using the term incorrectly, feel free to assume I meant "speed off in a reckless manner", which from any reasonable point of view, she did. However, as you point out, that is not worthy of the death penalty.


Except she didn't "speed off in a reckless manner" and you shouldn't try to monopolize what is "reasonable." She pulled off slow enough for the officers their to easily get out of the way.



I don't disagree with anything you say there. You're right that it's an outrage. You're wrong to think people will be outraged at this point. Sorry. It sucks, but (I'm pretty confident) it's true.

I'm confident that it's true as well, but I have the insight to know why. People aren't outraged because they haven't been told that they should be outraged. They haven't been beat over the head by the 24/7 news cycle pumping the story that a frightened unarmed and harmless woman was shot in the back five times by police after they had gotten control of the situation. Now everyone that I actually explain what happened to gets upset by the story. I've had the same experience that Gunny mentioned in the other recent Fergusen thread. Most people who are genuinely upset about what happened with Mike Brown are also upset, when the know the facts about Miriam Carey. That's "true" whether you realize it or not. The Mike Brown narrative, like the Trayvon Martin narrative, painted the victims in a dishonestly positive light. Trayvon Martin was not some innocent child with Skittles and Mike Brown was not some "gentle giant." By the time the facts came out, the false narratives were implanted in people's minds. Had an honest narrative about Miriam Carey got out and been pushed over and over again, that she was a model citizen and a responsible single mom that got frightened and panicked seeing men pointing guns at her, and that she was murdered after the police had control of the situation, there would be outrage.



If the store clerk had chased Mr Brown and shot him, that would be a fair analogy (and you can rest assured there'd be much less outrage). Instead, a cop who had no way of knowing if this was or was not the person accused of a crime was the shooter. Also, in Miriam Carey's case, she was considered to have a deadly weapon, her car. Brown had no weapon. Not saying I agree with these distinctions, but I accept them as real for others and have no interest in spitting into the wind.

You're missing the point. Some people see the Mike Brown video and are just as dismissive of him as you are of Miriam Carey. Also by the time Miriam Carey was shot her "deadly weapon" was no longer a thread. Further someone Mike Brown's size can kill another person without having a weapon.

This is officer Wilson's version of what happened with Mike Brown.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztSujxcIU2s

The strong arm robbery video shows Brown to be someone willing and able to commit violence as opposed to being a "gentle giant".

phill4paul
11-24-2014, 06:00 PM
Neg-repping people is an antagonistically counter-productive way to go about communicating with other users.

The PM subsystem is for communicating with other forum members "out of thread": http://www.ronpaulforums.com/private.php?do=newpm

I give it to Teh Collinz every time he uses: yourlogicalfallacyis.com

But, I'm an asshole and I don't care.

jmdrake
11-24-2014, 06:02 PM
That's why it's featured on the left hand side of every post?

I give up. It's a fucking green bar, people. I'm trying to express an opinion to another user privately, and we're getting upset over green bars. Awesome. Time well spent.

Okay. I'm going to take you at your word and assume it was an honest mistake. Answer me this. How would you expect to have a conversation with someone using the "rep" system, when after giving someone two or more reps in a row the system doesn't allow you to continue unless you "spread some rep around?" :confused:

orenbus
11-24-2014, 06:04 PM
536720293688274945

Occam's Banana
11-24-2014, 06:18 PM
That's why it's featured on the left hand side of every post?

It's featured on the left-hand side of every post so that users can "punish" posts & posters they don't like with neg-rep. That is its purpose.

Just like "Reply With Quote" is featured on the right-hand side of every post so that users can reply to a post with a quote.

Just like "Private Message" is featured on the pop-up menu you get when you click the username on a post so that you can send that user a private message.

IOW: It is there for what it is there for - and the rep button isn't there for sending private messages ...


I give up. It's a fucking green bar, people. I'm trying to express an opinion to another user privately, and we're getting upset over green bars. Awesome. Time well spent.

You're the one getting pissy because you didn't understand that the rep system isn't merely for "expressing an opinion to another user privately." That's what PMs are for.

All I did was (neutrally) explain to you the difference between the two.

GunnyFreedom
11-24-2014, 06:25 PM
It's featured on the left-hand side of every post so that users can "punish" posts & posters they don't like with neg-rep. That is its purpose.

Just like "Reply With Quote" is featured on the right-hand side of every post so that users can reply to a post with a quote.

Just like "Private Message" is featured on the pop-up menu you get when you click the username on a post so that you can send that user a private message.

IOW: It is there for what it is there for - and the rep button isn't there for sending private messages ...



You're the one getting pissy because you didn't understand that the rep system isn't merely for "expressing an opinion to another user privately." That's what PMs are for.

All I did was (neutrally) explain to you the difference between the two.

http://glenbradley.net/share/right.jpg

Occam's Banana
11-24-2014, 06:41 PM
I give it to Teh Collinz every time he uses: yourlogicalfallacyis.com But, I'm an asshole and I don't care. Yeah, but you're not trying to "communicate privately" with him by doing that. You're just smacking him upside the metaphorical head for being an ass ... ;)

jonhowe
11-24-2014, 06:46 PM
Clearly I'm doing this wrong, and have been for 7 years.

You guys carry on, I'll leave the thread alone now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib0rPVh_Xs0

DevilsAdvocate
11-24-2014, 06:47 PM
Ferguson is an excuse for protesters to get a free TV, and for the left to blame whitey for social problems. No one has looked into the evidence at all to find out who was actually at fault. If you do this, you will find that nearly all the facts line up against Michael Brown, and support Darren Wilson's account almost to the letter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pr1oE34bIM

The race hustlers should have waited for a different case when the facts were more justifiable of a riot. Statistics says that somewhere, somehow a black person is going to be killed by a white cop, they probably wouldn't even have to wait that long. But of course in that case, the courts would doubtlessly rule to their favor, and they wouldn't have any reason to riot, defeating the entire purpose of the exercise.

The sad thing is that justice will likely not be served in this case. The jury will probably convict officer Wilson over some trumped up minor charges under pressure from all the insane people threatening to riot. They'll riot anyway of course.

jmdrake
11-24-2014, 06:52 PM
Ferguson is an excuse for protesters to get a free TV, and for the left to blame whitey for social problems. No one has looked into the evidence at all to find out who was actually at fault. If you do this, you will find that nearly all the facts line up against Michael Brown, and support Darren Wilson's account almost to the letter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pr1oE34bIM

The race hustlers should have waited for a different case when the facts were more justifiable of a riot. Statistics says that somewhere, somehow a black person is going to be killed by a white cop, they probably wouldn't even have to wait that long. But of course in that case, the courts would doubtlessly rule to their favor, and they wouldn't have any reason to riot, defeating the entire purpose of the exercise.

The sad thing is that justice will likely not be served in this case. The jury will probably convict officer Wilson over some trumped up minor charges under pressure from all the insane people threatening to riot. They'll riot anyway of course.

Stephan Moleneuax gave that analysis before this video came out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8L3iAOy_5g

That said I agree with your overall point that there are clearer cut cases of police brutality.

GunnyFreedom
11-24-2014, 06:53 PM
Ferguson is an excuse for protesters to get a free TV, and for the left to blame whitey for social problems. No one has looked into the evidence at all to find out who was actually at fault. If you do this, you will find that nearly all the facts line up against Michael Brown, and support Darren Wilson's account almost to the letter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pr1oE34bIM

The race hustlers should have waited for a different case when the facts were more justifiable of a riot. Statistics says that somewhere, somehow a black person is going to be killed by a white cop, they probably wouldn't even have to wait that long. But of course in that case, the courts would doubtlessly rule to their favor, and they wouldn't have any reason to riot, defeating the entire purpose of the exercise.

The sad thing is that justice will likely not be served in this case. The jury will probably convict officer Wilson over some trumped up minor charges under pressure from all the insane people threatening to riot. They'll riot anyway of course.

1) The rioters and looters in Ferguson are pretty much all from out of town, the locals generally protest without rioting.

2) You don't...seriously...believe that the courts do justice for the legitimate victims of police abuse, do you?