Georgia Man Shoots and Kills Driver Who Mistakenly Pulled Into His Driveway; No Jail

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/11/20/georgia-man-shoots-and-kills-driver-who-mistakenly-pulled-into-his-driveway-allowed-to-plead-to-a-single-misdemeanor-with-no-jail-time-and-a-500-fine/


Georgia Man Shoots and Kills Driver Who Mistakenly Pulled Into His Driveway . . . Allowed To Plead To A Single Misdemeanor With No Jail Time and A $500 Fine

There is a surprising plea deal in Georgia this week where Philip Sailors, 69, was accused of responding to Rodrigo Diaz pulling into his driveway by mistake by shooting him in the head and killing him. Sailors has now been allowed to plead out on a single misdemeanor for involuntary manslaughter with no jail time. He was facing a murder charge. Under the plea bargain, Sailors will serve 12-months’ probation and pay a $500 fine. What is equally striking is that Sailors declined to say a word of apology to the family of Diaz when he appeared in court to accept the plea bargain of a lifetime.

Diaz appears to have pulled into the wrong driveway while following a mistaken GPS in January 2013. He was trying to find the driveway of his friend across the street to go roller-skating. When Sailors saw a strange car, he came out shooting: firing once in the air and once through the windshield of the car. The second round struck Diaz in the head.

[nobody's_hero]

hmm. I'm thinking they're gonna have a field day with this one.

Here we are in GA trying to extend carry into more areas, to advance the cause of gun rights, winning over public perception . . . and then . . .

an idiot happens. Media fodder for the liberal crusaders.

[Occam's Banana]

The first question that pops into my head is, "Who is Philip Sailors - and who does he know?" ...

[libertarianinternational]

If your life and the lives of your family, your wife, your kids were at risk, you wouldn't take chances either.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

If your life and the lives of your family, your wife, your kids were at risk, you wouldn't take chances either.

Really? You can't just blow everyones' brains out for the grave crime of pulling into your driveway.

You know how many people I'd kill if I did that? Drivers attempting to turn their cars around, package delivery personnel in unmarked vehicles, Jehovah's Witnesses...

[Natural Citizen]

If your life and the lives of your family, your wife, your kids were at risk, you wouldn't take chances either.

This is a dangerous mindset to align with a case like this. Soooo many cowboys out there who would crap their pants if someone yelled "Boo!" at them.

[SeanTX]

Occasionally a mundane will get to play by the same rules that the King's men do -- in both cases it will be up to the deceased person's family to seek out some real justice -- or just let it go. In this case a civil suit might be a good option ...

[Christian Liberty]

Occasionally a mundane will get to play by the same rules that the King's men do -- in both cases it will be up to the deceased person's family to seek out some real justice -- or just let it go. In this case a civil suit might be a good option ...

This makes me wonder if Philip Sailors is a former cop....

I'm generally big time on the side of "you have a right to do what you need to do to protect your property", but this is clearly not an example of defense, at all, based on the info in the article.

[nobody's_hero]

If your life and the lives of your family, your wife, your kids were at risk, you wouldn't take chances either.

Yeah this is kind of a stretch. If you're gonna be that itchy with your trigger, then the lives of your family, wife, and kids are probably already at risk.

What's that big yellow thing with flashing lights dropping off a whole gang in front of my house? Open fire!

The problem is not that I'm willing to take away the rights of anyone else based on this man's decision to shoot, but there are a shit ton of transplanted liberals in ATL who are willing to take away the rights of millions due to the actions of one. So therefore, one idiot can easily affect the rights of millions with his stupidity—it's an unfortunate fact, but a fact nonetheless. The Atlanta Journal Constitution is probably gonna be running this story for a week.

This guy is not your champion.

[alucard13mm]

This guy seems crazy... I don't think he should own a gun. I think misuse of a fire arm like this and apparently showing now remorse is grounds to get his guns taken away. Since it is a misdemeanor, I would assume he can still own guns.

I think everyone should be able to own guns until you do something stupid like this or commit a violent crime or diagnosed with mental illness.

[aGameOfThrones]

that's not self defense

[tod evans]

Out here in the sticks a stranger has a good chance of being drawn on if not shot at for pulling into a driveway where they don't belong.

In town folks are more forgiving though.......

[Natural Citizen]

Out here in the sticks a stranger has a good chance of being drawn on if not shot at for pulling into a driveway where they don't belong.

In town folks are more forgiving though.......

That's a great point, tod. Could maybe turn the argument around a bit based upon what you bring up there.

[PaulConventionWV]

Jeez, that's just sick. It's depressing, too. He was just going to go roller skating with his friend and ended up shot in the head. And no apology? This guy deserves a lot more than what he got, that's for sure.

[69360]

Excellent chance of being met with a gun around here for driving up the wrong driveway. Not much of a chance of getting shot at, folks are pretty reasonable but very cautious. My place is 1000 feet off the road and you can't see it from the road. Nobody should be up here that doesn't belong. But fwiw my drive is long enough google maps shows it as a road.

[PaulConventionWV]

If your life and the lives of your family, your wife, your kids were at risk, you wouldn't take chances either.

What's at risk? Are you really that paranoid that you feel the need to immediately shoot and kill everyone who uses your driveway as a turnaround spot? Do you even go in public?

[Kotin]

If your life and the lives of your family, your wife, your kids were at risk, you wouldn't take chances either.

this is completely crazy.. warning shots in this case would even be a bit strange but at least it would not have lead to a death?? wrong driveway shouldnt mean an execution.. and just because he may have been lawful in doing so never means it was morally acceptable to take somebody's life without thinking at all..

[morfeeis]

If your life and the lives of your family, your wife, your kids were at risk, you wouldn't take chances either.

serious?

[Christian Liberty]

Out here in the sticks a stranger has a good chance of being drawn on if not shot at for pulling into a driveway where they don't belong.

In town folks are more forgiving though.......

Would you do that? Seriously?

I've seen my parents pull into a driveway as a way of turning around before (I don't currently drive.) Had we been shot at for doing that, yeah, I'd consider that murder. Come on...


Excellent chance of being met with a gun around here for driving up the wrong driveway. Not much of a chance of getting shot at, folks are pretty reasonable but very cautious. My place is 1000 feet off the road and you can't see it from the road. Nobody should be up here that doesn't belong. But fwiw my drive is long enough google maps shows it as a road.

Pulling the gun? Seems really excessive but at least nobody is actually harmed. Actually shooting? Come on...


this is completely crazy.. warning shots in this case would even be a bit strange but at least it would not have lead to a death?? wrong driveway shouldnt mean an execution.. and just because he may have been lawful in doing so never means it was morally acceptable to take somebody's life without thinking at all..

This...

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

If your life and the lives of your family, your wife, your kids were at risk, you wouldn't take chances either.


Are you the same RPF account who has that really dumb, but funny avatar? The avatar is a picture of a person with her back to the camera. The back of her shirt reads, "volunteer." I can't remember the user name.

You and that account post some funny one liners. Not that this line is funny, and the other account is probably better.

[Anti Federalist]

Twenty bucks says this guy is an ex cop, prosecutor, judge, sheriff, prison guard...an ex "official" of some kind.

[Christian Liberty]

Twenty bucks says this guy is an ex cop, prosecutor, judge, sheriff, prison guard...an ex "official" of some kind.

That was my gut reaction as well.

[puppetmaster]

Occasionally a mundane will get to play by the same rules that the King's men do -- in both cases it will be up to the deceased person's family to seek out some real justice -- or just let it go. In this case a civil suit might be a good option ...

Yep pull into the white house driveway......boom you are dead.

[tod evans]

Would you do that? Seriously?

I've seen my parents pull into a driveway as a way of turning around before (I don't currently drive.) Had we been shot at for doing that, yeah, I'd consider that murder. Come on...


Depends on the situation, in the mid 80's cattle rustling and equipment thefts were at an all time high, every stranger was suspect.

I don't recall anyone being shot over it but I do recall shots being fired at cars/trucks that tried to avoid the "Whatchudoin?" Cops never called of course.

You've got to understand though, "driveways" here are often wagon ruts going off through the woods..

Deer season is another time out of state plates are routinely run off at gunpoint, any upright hunter will come in and introduce himself before the season and let the landowner know which neighbor has given him permission to hunt in the area..

City folk all liquored up with semi-auto weapons traipsing around uninvited in the woods with your livestock might cause you to worry too...

Looking at such behavior through the lens of New Yark life is diametrically opposed to looking at it through the lens of country life.. The burbs are their own set of idiosyncrasies...

[A Son of Liberty]

Out here in the sticks a stranger has a good chance of being drawn on if not shot at for pulling into a driveway where they don't belong.

In town folks are more forgiving though.......

It's good to know that cops aren't the only folks who overreact to the slightest perceived threat.

Last weekend I was traipsing around my land when I encountered a man walking with a shotgun. I cautiously called out to him from a distance, then engaged him in friendly conversation and asked him what he was doing on my land as I approached. Turns out, the former property owner had given him permission to hunt the area, and as I haven't occupied the property yet he just continued hunting it. He asked if I minded him continuing to do so, and I told him I didn't, so long as he let me know when he was going to be there.

As a rule, I don't tremble in fear and whip out a weapon every time I encounter other people.

[tod evans]

It's good to know that cops aren't the only folks who overreact to the slightest perceived threat.

Last weekend I was traipsing around my land when I encountered a man walking with a shotgun. I cautiously called out to him from a distance, then engaged him in friendly conversation and asked him what he was doing on my land as I approached. Turns out, the former property owner had given him permission to hunt the area, and as I haven't occupied the property yet he just continued hunting it. He asked if I minded him continuing to do so, and I told him I didn't, so long as he let me know when he was going to be there.

As a rule, I don't tremble in fear and whip out a weapon every time I encounter other people.

This is normal behavior here too..

Now, would you have behaved differently if the circumstances were different?

[A Son of Liberty]

This is normal behavior here too..

Now, would you have behaved differently if the circumstances were different?

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that pulling a gun - let alone shooting - on someone for merely pulling into your driveway is a cowardly overreaction to an everyday encounter with other human beings.

ETA: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?463497-Unarmed-Brooklyn-Man-Shot-To-Death-After-Startling-NYPD-Cops

[tod evans]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that pulling a gun - let alone shooting - on someone for merely pulling into your driveway is a cowardly overreaction to an everyday encounter with other human beings.


I differentiate between environments and circumstances, deer season is coming up soon, my neighbors and I have talked and we know who's supposed to be here and who isn't.

There are folks out here in the hollars who cook shine, grow dope or make meth and you can rest assured they'll shoot at a strange vehicle, it's been that way since before prohibition...

Personally I'm proud to live in such an inhospitable area, if the bugs-n-critters don't keep interlopers out then the inbreds will.......

[jmdrake]

If your life and the lives of your family, your wife, your kids were at risk, you wouldn't take chances either.

One of his kids could have been in the car. Or one of his relatives kids. That was very irresponsible and he should have gotten a manslaughter charge at least. If this was a real threat the perp would have had to get out of the car to cause harm. Really, was he expecting a car bombing or something?

[A Son of Liberty]

my neighbors and I have talked and we know who's supposed to be here and who isn't.

Sometimes people make a wrong turn. They don't deserve to be shot for it.

Folks who feel compelled to draw a weapon because someone whom they do not know shows up on their property are cowards. Intelligent people do indeed assess the situation, and keeping means of protection handy is reasonable, but pointing a weapon at someone who's done nothing more threatening than pull into the wrong driveway is sociopathic.

[A Son of Liberty]

If your life and the lives of your family, your wife, your kids were at risk, you wouldn't take chances either.

"Officer safety"

[jmdrake]

Out here in the sticks a stranger has a good chance of being drawn on if not shot at for pulling into a driveway where they don't belong.

In town folks are more forgiving though.......

Well your sticks are different than my sticks. I used to live in the sticks in rural Alabama so far out that my ex wife used to say "That's where people who live in the country want to go to get away from it all." Nobody out there would do anything like that. And people there have super long driveways. Hell, once I took a wrong turn on what I thought was a short cut road that dead ended at the base of a mountain. Then I got stuck. The owner, who I didn't know, happened by on his 4 wheeler and gave me a ride back out. He had a shot gun but he never threatened me or even made me feel bad for my dumb mistake. And he was white and I'm black.


I differentiate between environments and circumstances, deer season is coming up soon, my neighbors and I have talked and we know who's supposed to be here and who isn't.

There are folks out here in the hollars who cook shine, grow dope or make meth and you can rest assured they'll shoot at a strange vehicle, it's been that way since before prohibition...

Personally I'm proud to live in such an inhospitable area, if the bugs-n-critters don't keep interlopers out then the inbreds will.......

Oh, and my story happened before there was any meth epidemic so perhaps that's the difference. And I never knew about any moonshiners or dope growers. They were probably out there somewhere I suppose. Hunters coming on your property without permission was a constant problem though.

[tod evans]

Sometimes people make a wrong turn. They don't deserve to be shot for it.

Folks who feel compelled to draw a weapon because someone whom they do not know shows up on their property are cowards. Intelligent people do indeed assess the situation, and keeping means of protection handy is reasonable, but pointing a weapon at someone who's done nothing more threatening than pull into the wrong driveway is sociopathic.

I get the feeling you're trying to paint me personally as one who routinely points weapons at strangers or perhaps actually shoots at them, is this the case?

[tod evans]

Well your sticks are different than my sticks. I used to live in the sticks in rural Alabama so far out that my ex wife used to say "That's where people who live in the country want to go to get away from it all." Nobody out there would do anything like that. And people there have super long driveways. Hell, once I took a wrong turn on what I thought was a short cut road that dead ended at the base of a mountain. Then I got stuck. The owner, who I didn't know, happened by on his 4 wheeler and gave me a ride back out. He had a shot gun but he never threatened me or even made me feel bad for my dumb mistake. And he was white and I'm black.

This is normal behavior here too barring extenuating circumstances....

[A Son of Liberty]

I get the feeling you're trying to paint me personally as one who routinely points weapons at strangers or perhaps actually shoots at them, is this the case?

Not really. It could have been construed from your post I initially responded to that you may, but I didn't think so. I did get the sense that you sympathize it, however.

[tod evans]

Not really. It could have been construed from your post I initially responded to that you may, but I didn't think so. I did get the sense that you sympathize it, however.

I'd not cast my ballot to convict a local who shot an interloper were I one of the 12 sitting in judgement...

If that's sympathetic then so be it.

Then again I'd probably not help dispose of the evidence either...

[A Son of Liberty]

I'd not cast my ballot to convict a local who shot an interloper were I one of the 12 sitting in judgement...

If that's sympathetic then so be it.

Then again I'd probably not help dispose of the evidence either...

To be clear, you would say that this Georgia man who shot the guy through the windshield is NOT guilty of having committed murder?

Aren't you always griping about cop shootings?

[tod evans]

To be clear, you would say that this Georgia man who shot the guy through the windshield is NOT guilty of having committed murder?

Aren't you always griping about cop shootings?

I am NOT saying anything about some dude in Ga.!

How did you deduce that from my posts?

[A Son of Liberty]

I am NOT saying anything about some dude in Ga.!

How did you deduce that from my posts?

Pretty simply, actually:

Georgia man shoots and kills person for pulling into driveway.

You state that you would not vote to convict of murder someone who shoots someone for pulling into their driveway.

The logical conclusion is that you would consider the Georgia man NOT guilty of having committed murder.

[tod evans]

Pretty simply, actually:

Georgia man shoots and kills person for pulling into driveway.

You state that you would not vote to convict of murder someone who shoots someone for pulling into their driveway.

The logical conclusion is that you would consider the Georgia man NOT guilty of having committed murder.

I am speaking specifically about life in the Ozarks and have been very clear that I'm discussing local behavior.

I suppose I am at fault for not predicating my posts with the fact that I live in the Ozarks..:o

[A Son of Liberty]

I am speaking specifically about life in the Ozarks and have been very clear that I'm discussing local behavior.

I suppose I am at fault for not predicating my posts with the fact that I live in the Ozarks..:o

I'm not sure I understand the significance of geography?

I'm confused...?

[PaulConventionWV]

It's good to know that cops aren't the only folks who overreact to the slightest perceived threat.

Last weekend I was traipsing around my land when I encountered a man walking with a shotgun. I cautiously called out to him from a distance, then engaged him in friendly conversation and asked him what he was doing on my land as I approached. Turns out, the former property owner had given him permission to hunt the area, and as I haven't occupied the property yet he just continued hunting it. He asked if I minded him continuing to do so, and I told him I didn't, so long as he let me know when he was going to be there.

As a rule, I don't tremble in fear and whip out a weapon every time I encounter other people.

In my experience, the people who whip out a weapon every time they see a person are usually the low-class ones who live out in the country because they had nowhere else to go and have very modest dwellings. The ones living at the end of a long driveway are usually quite wealthy and never actually get that kind of company. I'm not sure what would happen if they did, but I suppose I could understand bringing a gun out "just in case." Even in the country, though, there's usually a public road of some kind, albeit a dirt one. The poor people live closer to the road and the wealthier ones live at the end of a long driveway. I'm sure they would suspect a strange visitor, but that usually doesn't happen. The ones who would pull out a gun for every car that comes in their driveway when their house is right by the road are idiots.

It's not really a case of being "forgiving" or not. People who live in the city are less trigger-happy for a darn good reason. In the country, it's just as retarded for someone who lives right by the road to do such a thing without identifying the person and getting a response from them, but it happens more often because many people who live in places where that has a chance of happening are usually low-lives to begin with.

[tod evans]

I'm not sure I understand the significance of geography?

I'm confused...?


I differentiate between environments and circumstances,

I'm unable to comment on local behavior in Ga.due to not being a local.

The headline
Georgia Man Shoots and Kills Driver Who Mistakenly Pulled Into His Driveway

Isn't enough for me to even speculate as to guilt or innocence....



It's good to know that cops aren't the only folks who overreact to the slightest perceived threat.


But I absolutely DO differentiate between a homeowner gunning down a trespasser and a government employee gunning down anybody under the color of law.

[PaulConventionWV]

I get the feeling you're trying to paint me personally as one who routinely points weapons at strangers or perhaps actually shoots at them, is this the case?

If you're not, then just say you're not. No interrogation needed. I'm sure Mr. Son of Liberty would understand.

[tod evans]

In my experience, the people who whip out a weapon every time they see a person are usually the low-class ones who live out in the country because they had nowhere else to go and have very modest dwellings. The ones living at the end of a long driveway are usually quite wealthy and never actually get that kind of company.

Stick to city life Paul...

One of my neighbors growing up lived in a very modest rock home with the barn and bull pen in close proximity, there were tractors and balers in various states of (dis) repair in the yard, ol' Gene had chaw dribbled into his scraggly beard and kept both a 30/30 and a 12ga in the back window of his p/u.....A typical stereotypical hillbilly right?

Until you dig a bit deaper..

Ol' Gene owned, free and clear, over 5k acres, leased almost 10k additional, owned his own feedlot in Ok. as well as 7 separate equipment dealers, kept a fleet of semis running tending his herd...

I shoveled shit for the man for $.50hr and bucked hay for $.02 bale....

This is one type of person who shoots first when he sees strange vehicles where they don't belong...

[A Son of Liberty]

I'm unable to comment on local behavior in Ga.due to not being a local.

The headline

Isn't enough for me to even speculate as to guilt or innocence....

You stated unequivocally that you would not cast your ballot against someone who did just what he did.

[tod evans]

You stated unequivocally that you would not cast your ballot against someone who did just what he did.

LOCAL person!

Jury of peers.........

[A Son of Liberty]

Stick to city life Paul...

One of my neighbors growing up lived in a very modest rock home with the barn and bull pen in close proximity, there were tractors and balers in various states of (dis) repair in the yard, ol' Gene had chaw dribbled into his scraggly beard and kept both a 30/30 and a 12ga in the back window of his p/u.....A typical stereotypical hillbilly right?

Until you dig a bit deaper..

Ol' Gene owned, free and clear, over 5k acres, leased almost 10k additional, owned his own feedlot in Ok. as well as 7 separate equipment dealers, kept a fleet of semis running tending his herd...

I shoveled shit for the man for $.50hr and bucked hay for $.02 bale....

This is one type of person who shoots first when he sees strange vehicles where they don't belong...

Is Ol' Gene also a cop?

[tod evans]

Is Ol' Gene also a cop?

Fuck no!

What a silly inquiry.......

Gene's dead now and his son is cashing in on migrating city folk with 5 acre "ranchettes" ...

[A Son of Liberty]

LOCAL person!

Jury of peers.........

So, again, I have to ask what geography has to do with it??

You're more than happy to, without equivocation, state that you would not vote to convict a local person who shoots someone in his driveway.

Why would the details suddenly matter when the situation arises in Georgia?

[A Son of Liberty]

Fuck no!

What a silly inquiry.......

Gene's dead now and his son is cashing in on migrating city folk with 5 acre "ranchettes" ...

Why's that so silly? Ol' Gene was a "shoot first" kind of guy. He sounds like he was a sociopath, based on that description. Well adjusted folks don't react to strangers by "shooting first".

[tod evans]

So, again, I have to ask what geography has to do with it??

You're more than happy to, without equivocation, state that you would not vote to convict a local person who shoots someone in his driveway.

Why would the details suddenly matter when the situation arises in Georgia?

Shooting a stranger who's trespassing in the backwoods is different than shooting a stranger who's trespassing in the burbs..

I'm not asking you to differentiate merely stating that I do.

[asurfaholic]

Question.

What kind of man goes roller skating with his friend who he needs a GPS to find the home?

And why shouldn't he be shot on the spot?




*ducks out*

[tod evans]

Why's that so silly? Ol' Gene was a "shoot first" kind of guy. He sounds like he was a sociopath, based on that description. Well adjusted folks don't react to strangers by "shooting first".

Well adjusted folks protect their property.

I brought up Gene specifically because he is one of the farmers back in the 80's who was hit particularly hard by rustlers, I'd have behaved in the same manner were I in his shoes..

The portrayal of "Shoot first" is misleading in and of itself because that's not what happened back then....

Identify yourself was the icebreaker to the trespasser the ones who fled were fired on.

This anecdote has no bearing on this thread other than to point out that all folks who shoot trespassers aren't sociopaths...

[juleswin]

Out here in the sticks a stranger has a good chance of being drawn on if not shot at for pulling into a driveway where they don't belong.

In town folks are more forgiving though.......


This is normal behavior here too..

Now, would you have behaved differently if the circumstances were different?

I am a bit confused, which one of those 2 posts is normal in the sticks? pulling a gun/shooting at strangers who pulls into your driveway or not pulling a gun/shoot at but instead hollering and being civil with a strangers with a shotgun who stroll into your property? something tells me that both posts cannot be truth, paranoid freaks who shot at strangers who pull into their driveway do not tend to civil with armed strangers who trespass on their property.

And this is not me having a go at you, I really want to know which is true in the rare chance I am unfortunate to find my self in either scenario.

[tod evans]

I am a bit confused, which one of those 2 posts is normal in the sticks? pulling a gun/shooting at strangers who pulls into your driveway or not pulling a gun/shoot at but instead hollering and being civil with a strangers with a shotgun who stroll into your property? something tells me that both posts cannot be truth, paranoid freaks who shot at strangers who pull into their driveway do not tend to civil with armed strangers who trespass on their property.

And this is not me having a go at you, I really want to know which is true in the rare chance I am unfortunate to find my self in either scenario.

Circumstances are relevant...

99.5% of the time a person lost and behaving themselves will encounter nothing but guarded hospitality out here...

There are many areas back in the national forest where even I don't venture for fear of ventilation....

So yup both statements are true, they're not mutually exclusive.

[Suzanimal]

I'm just going to pop in here and say, my aunt lives in the country (in Ga) and she's pulled a shot gun on lots of people who've pulled in her driveway. Hasn't shot anyone....yet. You can't see her house from the road, she has a gate at the end of the driveway with No Trespassing and Private Driveway signs, and she's home alone a lot - it's scares her when a truck load of men she doesn't know pulls up. She walks out with her shot gun and her big ass pit bulls (they're love bugs, they just look scary) to run them off. It usually happens once a week during hunting season, it's obviously mostly hunters but they have no business being there and who knows what kind of people they are. Heck, my uncle found where someone had set up a deer feeder on his property at the end of summer. Clearly a hunter had been sneaking around setting himself up a spot to come back to this fall. It's creepy as hell to go skulking around someone's property like that - and their property is clearly marked, this was no accident.

I'm not defending the guy in the op, I haven't even read it yet. I'm just explaining why someone would pull a gun on someone who pulls up their driveway.

[juleswin]

Out here in the sticks a stranger has a good chance of being drawn on if not shot at for pulling into a driveway where they don't belong.

In town folks are more forgiving though.......


Circumstances are relevant...

99.5% of the time a person lost and behaving themselves will encounter nothing but guarded hospitality out here...

There are many areas back in the national forest where even I don't venture for fear of ventilation....

So yup both statements are true, they're not mutually exclusive.

When you say it like that, then it is not that different from what might happen even here in the city. Your original post gave the impression that it was not out of the ordinary out to pull a gun or shot strangers(with no other qualifiers) who drive up to your driveway in the country. But in reality, you have to be a stranger plus not behave yourself to get shot at which essential remove 99.5% of the people who drive onto your driveway and behave normal. But anyway, thanks for clarifying your post

Also what do you mean by "fear of ventilation"?

[tod evans]

Also what do you mean by "fear of ventilation"?

Getting shot.

The national forest and its caves are, and have been the home to scofflaws for over a century...

[squarepusher]

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/11/20/georgia-man-shoots-and-kills-driver-who-mistakenly-pulled-into-his-driveway-allowed-to-plead-to-a-single-misdemeanor-with-no-jail-time-and-a-500-fine/


If you read the original article, you can see the man shot was named Rodrigo Diaz (its Mexican). Lets face it, this guy is probably an illegal immigrant from Mexico, on welfare trying to take jobs probably commit crime if he had the opportunity. Maybe it was a good thing that he was shot now before he could continue his possible crimes/leeching.

[A Son of Liberty]

I'm just going to pop in here and say, my aunt lives in the country (in Ga) and she's pulled a shot gun on lots of people who've pulled in her driveway. Hasn't shot anyone....yet. You can't see her house from the road, she has a gate at the end of the driveway with No Trespassing and Private Driveway signs, and she's home alone a lot - it's scares her when a truck load of men she doesn't know pulls up. She walks out with her shot gun and her big ass pit bulls (they're love bugs, they just look scary) to run them off. It usually happens once a week during hunting season, it's obviously mostly hunters but they have no business being there and who knows what kind of people they are. Heck, my uncle found where someone had set up a deer feeder on his property at the end of summer. Clearly a hunter had been sneaking around setting himself up a spot to come back to this fall. It's creepy as hell to go skulking around someone's property like that - and their property is clearly marked, this was no accident.

I'm not defending the guy in the op, I haven't even read it yet. I'm just explaining why someone would pull a gun on someone who pulls up their driveway.

:thumbs:

Fleshing out your argument helps people understand where you're coming from.

I faced a similar situation last weekend and calmly and in a friendly manner approached the trespasser with vigilance...

I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is that I do not regard my fellow human beings as enemies, as a rule. Of course I assess each situation on it's merits, but I don't instantly leap to a defensive-cum-offensive posture just because someone is somewhere I don't expect them to be. Life is chaos, and if your inclination is to point guns at the outliers, you're probably an outlier yourself.

[osan]

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/11/20/georgia-man-shoots-and-kills-driver-who-mistakenly-pulled-into-his-driveway-allowed-to-plead-to-a-single-misdemeanor-with-no-jail-time-and-a-500-fine/

Either something truly essential has been left out of this report, or something in Denmark has gone full-manky.

Is this guy somehow connected? Could this be work of a provocateur? Not to sound too tin-foil-hatty, but the latter would make sense, given the temporal proximity to the Ferguson deal. Not sure how it would be pulled off, but assuming it could be readily done, if there is an objective to stir the pot of civil unrest, the scott-free murder of a hispanic alongside that of Michael Brown could amp things up neatly.

I am sorry, but any time some apparently random person shoots out the brains of a presumably innocent other, facing no real consequences, I tend to get a little suspicious.

Thoughts?

[loveshiscountry]

As we first reported in May, the Diaz family sued Phillip Sailors citing he acted negligently.
Attorneys say there was a settlement in which the family received an undisclosed amount of money.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/gwinnett-co-man-pleads-guilty-driveway-shooting/nh8r5/


Insanely, when the Lilburn Police arrived, with Rodrigo dead in the car, they arrested his girlfriend and the two other passengers and held them overnight in jail.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/19/1345972/-How-to-shoot-and-kill-an-immigrant-Georgia-Tech-student-and-only-pay-a-500-fine

[A Son of Liberty]

Well adjusted folks protect their property.

I brought up Gene specifically because he is one of the farmers back in the 80's who was hit particularly hard by rustlers, I'd have behaved in the same manner were I in his shoes..

The portrayal of "Shoot first" is misleading in and of itself because that's not what happened back then....

Identify yourself was the icebreaker to the trespasser the ones who fled were fired on.

This anecdote has no bearing on this thread other than to point out that all folks who shoot trespassers aren't sociopaths...

Well adjusted folks don't perceive as a threat the mere presence of other human beings.

And you portrayed him as a "shoot first" kind of guy, so if that's a mischaracterisation, it's yours to correct.

Folks who shoot non-threatening trespassers are indeed sociopaths. As I'm sure you know, people can wander incidentally onto other people's property all the time in the country, especially wooded country. Did it myself just last year while trying to locate the northeast corner of my property. I'm glad this fellow from Georgia, or Ol' Gene weren't the property owners I inadvertently encroached upon.

[Wooden Indian]

I once took a few wrong turns (pre GPS) while driving through BFE, Alabama. Got so low on gas that I pulled down a long driveway up to a local's house.
Not only was I not shot at, he pulled a 5 gl can from his pickup and got me enough gas and directions so that I could get back to town.

Acting like a lunatic is NOT a part of being in the country and protecting your property. Crazy jackasses are found in cities and the boondocks unfortunately.
Likely far less in the country though.

[acptulsa]

This guy seems crazy... I don't think he should own a gun.

Right. Because prosecutors don't fail to enforce existing laws, guns do...

[tod evans]

From the article;

https://jonathanturley.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/article-2270105-173bcbe3000005dc-244_634x351.jpg

^^^^^Not a place to draw or use weapons on a turn around.^^^^^^^

And here's the typical backwoods driveway....

Obviously designed with the intention of keeping the public out...

3422

[Suzanimal]

:thumbs:

Fleshing out your argument helps people understand where you're coming from.

I faced a similar situation last weekend and calmly and in a friendly manner approached the trespasser with vigilance...

I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is that I do not regard my fellow human beings as enemies, as a rule. Of course I assess each situation on it's merits, but I don't instantly leap to a defensive-cum-offensive posture just because someone is somewhere I don't expect them to be. Life is chaos, and if your inclination is to point guns at the outliers, you're probably an outlier yourself.

She's actually very sweet but she's an elderly woman who's had too much riff-raff come up to her house.

[chudrockz]

I once took a few wrong turns (pre GPS) while driving through BFE, Alabama. Got so low on gas that I pulled down a long driveway up to a local's house.
Not only was I not shot at, he pulled a 5 gl can from his pickup and got me enough gas and directions so that I could get back to town.

Acting like a lunatic is NOT a part of being in the country and protecting your property. Crazy jackasses are found in cities and the boondocks unfortunately.
Likely far less in the country though.

When I was in college I took a geography course, and with a partner we had an assignment to research and write a paper on a "platte" (I think it was called) so we basically through a dart at a map and picked one. It was a Saturday morning and we drove out to look around. There was only one old farmhouse down a long driveway nestled in a stand of trees. My partner said we should go talk to them. I felt kinda stupid about it but we went and knocked. It was an older farmer and his wife. We introduced ourselves and told them about our assignment. They thought it was really neat, invited us in, his wife cooked us the best breakfast I've ever had, we talked for a couple of hours and they showed us old maps and pictures, then the farmer took us around on a tour of the property. I was, and still am, amazed at that level of hospitality. I love it.

[Anti Federalist]

Agreed.

Quite a difference between the two.


From the article;

https://jonathanturley.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/article-2270105-173bcbe3000005dc-244_634x351.jpg

^^^^^Not a place to draw or use weapons on a turn around.^^^^^^^

And here's the typical backwoods driveway....

Obviously designed with the intention of keeping the public out...

3422

[tod evans]

Well adjusted folks don't perceive as a threat the mere presence of other human beings.

And you portrayed him as a "shoot first" kind of guy, so if that's a mischaracterisation, it's yours to correct.

Folks who shoot non-threatening trespassers are indeed sociopaths. As I'm sure you know, people can wander incidentally onto other people's property all the time in the country, especially wooded country. Did it myself just last year while trying to locate the northeast corner of my property. I'm glad this fellow from Georgia, or Ol' Gene weren't the property owners I inadvertently encroached upon.

I went to a great deal of effort to describe the environment here in the Ozarks and the situations that cause property owners to fire on intruders...

For all I know you could be describing "country" living as the picture from the article in Ga.?

To me that home is in the burbs, heck there's pavement with stripes in front of it!

When I describe country living you'll travel 1-10 miles of dirt road to find the driveway I posted a picture of.

As I keep pointing out;


Circumstances are relevant...

[specsaregood]

The first question that pops into my head is, "Who is Philip Sailors - and who does he know?" ...

This is what I come back to. Either something serious is being left out of the story of what really happened or he is connected in someway.

[SeanTX]

I once took a few wrong turns (pre GPS) while driving through BFE, Alabama. Got so low on gas that I pulled down a long driveway up to a local's house.
Not only was I not shot at, he pulled a 5 gl can from his pickup and got me enough gas and directions so that I could get back to town.

Acting like a lunatic is NOT a part of being in the country and protecting your property. Crazy jackasses are found in cities and the boondocks unfortunately.
Likely far less in the country though.

You do have to be very careful though. Which sucks for people who truly do need a stranger's help.

There was a murder case that happened here a few years back, some guy went up to a rural home late at night and claimed that he was there to let them know that their horses had gotten loose and were out on the highway. I'm not sure if they let him in, or he forced his way in, but at some point he pulled out a gun and held them captive, eventually killing the whole family, including young kids and the family dog.

Of course, the possibility of that wouldn't be justification for shooting someone who had just pulled up into your private driveway -- but it does show why you need to be wary and cautious and prepared for anything ...

[osan]

Well adjusted folks

Oh... there's that troublesome term, yet again...


don't perceive as a threat the mere presence of other human beings.

That would seem to depend rather heavily upon circumstance, don't you think?


Folks who shoot non-threatening trespassers are indeed sociopaths.

And there's that one, now... oh dear, what will we do?

[osan]

As we first reported in May, the Diaz family sued Phillip Sailors citing he acted negligently.
Attorneys say there was a settlement in which the family received an undisclosed amount of money.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/gwinnett-co-man-pleads-guilty-driveway-shooting/nh8r5/

OK, this is a money-shot of sorts - it surely got my attention:


District Attorney, Danny Porter, said the family was on board with the plea deal.
"They are not in a position where they want to have Mr. Sailors sent to prison for the rest of his life(1),” Porter said in court. “They are in a position where it is most important to them, that the public understand that Mr. Diaz, who was driving the car, was not committing any crime. (He) was not engaged in any unlawful activity, was not engaged in anything even improper.(2)"

OK, neither of these "positions" read like typically bereaved family. The statement at (1) indicates either candidacy for sainthood, or is a not-so-terribly oblique indication that something else, something that the Diaz family very much does not want exposed, is going on.

The statement at (2) only fans the flames. Why would they go through such pains and minutiae to make the "public understand" that Rodrigo junior was so very clean? Had MY son been murdered by some presumed old bastard such as Sailor, I would not be giving the least damn about whta the public understands. Furthermore, I would be seeking custody of Mr. Sailors testicles for display from the rear-view mirror of my '63 lowrider, right where my fuzzy dice used to be.

Perhaps they are higher class Columbians. Perhaps the passage of time has softened their grief. Who can say? I certainly cannot, but I can take note that some of this story has the weird about it. Given what goes on in this land these days, it becomes almost reflexive to hold suspicion-laden questions such as mine. Sad it is, methinks, when this becomes the "normal" response where acceptance of what may simply be good grace used to be the norm.


Insanely, when the Lilburn Police arrived, with Rodrigo dead in the car, they arrested his girlfriend and the two other passengers and held them overnight in jail.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/19/1345972/-How-to-shoot-and-kill-an-immigrant-Georgia-Tech-student-and-only-pay-a-500-fine

An interesting tidbit from that output page:


In January, 2013, Rodrigo Diaz, a Gwinnett Tech student from Colombia (http://nbclatino.com/2013/02/01/family-remembers-young-man-slain-in-driveway-calls-for-action/), was going skating in suburban Atlanta with his girlfriend and three of their friends. They had one last person to pick up, and as they pulled into the driveway of Phillip Sailors, a retired Vietnam veteran, to pick up their friend, they soon realized that it was the wrong address.


Perhaps this is just a matter of poor writing style? If the last person to be picked up was a friend, why did Diaz not already know how to get there? Perhaps it was not one of his friends but a friend of a friend? It's the small details such as this that get my attention, mainly because the presumption of proper and sufficient precision of expression is the only thing that makes these sorts of articles even remotely worth reading. Given all this, all I can conclude here is that either the author is an inept fop at that task, or something terribly significant is going unreported because as written, the reportage raises more questions than it answers.

[specsaregood]

OK, neither of these "positions" read like typically bereaved family. The statement at (1) indicates either candidacy for sainthood, or is a not-so-terribly oblique indication that something else, something that the Diaz family very much does not want exposed, is going on.

The statement at (2) only fans the flames. Why would they go through such pains and minutiae to make the "public understand" that Rodrigo junior was so very clean? Had MY son been murdered by some presumed old bastard such as Sailor, I would not be giving the least damn about whta the public understands. Furthermore, I would be seeking custody of Mr. Sailors testicles for display from the rear-view mirror of my '63 lowrider, right where my fuzzy dice used to be.


Indeed, methinks there is more to this story than has been publically reported.

[69360]

Sometimes people make a wrong turn. They don't deserve to be shot for it.

Folks who feel compelled to draw a weapon because someone whom they do not know shows up on their property are cowards. Intelligent people do indeed assess the situation, and keeping means of protection handy is reasonable, but pointing a weapon at someone who's done nothing more threatening than pull into the wrong driveway is sociopathic.

City people problems. Meeting an unknown car coming up your long driveway armed is no big deal. Shooting at them obviously is, but nothing wrong with being cautious.



From the article;

https://jonathanturley.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/article-2270105-173bcbe3000005dc-244_634x351.jpg

^^^^^Not a place to draw or use weapons on a turn around.^^^^^^^

And here's the typical backwoods driveway....

Obviously designed with the intention of keeping the public out...

3422


Mine looks like #2 and is over 1000 feet. Nobody should be up there if they don't belong and I will be awfully suspicious if a car pulls up.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

A somewhat similar thing happened to me.

I knocked on my neighbor friend's door at dusk, when it's almost dark. He's not home and his wife can't identify me on the stoop. I'm not on the porch because his porch dog is barking at me. I sort of crane my next to see in the window because it looks like someone is home. I even call out, but maybe it's distorted with the windows closed.

Guy's wife calls her landlord, who owns the house where she lives. He lives right next door, bolts over, and starts reading me the riot act without the benefit of the doubt. We've even met in the past. I also take exception to this fuck because he's a career criminal and I'm told he poisoned my other neighbor's dog. Anyway, some heated words are exchanged.

I eventually turn to leave. He then kicks me right in the ass. I turn around and he pulls a gun on me, firing it into the ground.

I'm guessing this Georgia thing had some similarities. Sailors' wife reports a ruckus, so maybe Sailors and Diaz exchanged words. Sailors said Diaz drove towards him. So does Diaz rev his car or spin some gravel? If he drives toward Diaz, then how far?

Diaz was shot in the side of the head, so it does appear that he was not driving right into Sailors at the bullet's impact. Does Sailors take exception to Diaz the way my neighbor took exception to me? I was leaving after a simple argument, but he kicks me. I'm walking away hoping he doesn't shoot me in the back, so is Diaz also just pulling away when Sailors takes exception and shoots at him anyway?

Anyway, not totally similar circumstances, but guess I'm saying that one thing can lead to another. The real kicker of my story is that my neighbor half-heartedly takes his landlord's side. I never speak with my neighbor friend again, but learn later that the landlord poisons the very dog that kept me off the porch that night. That landlord fuck was about the same age as Sailors, and died last year. All dogs and I say good riddance, you piece of shit. LOL.

[RonPaulMall]

One of his kids could have been in the car. Or one of his relatives kids. That was very irresponsible and he should have gotten a manslaughter charge at least. If this was a real threat the perp would have had to get out of the car to cause harm. Really, was he expecting a car bombing or something?

Read the article. He was charged with manslaughter, and that is what he ended up pleading guilty to.