The USS Liberty Truthers Were Right. Guess What? So are the 9/11 Ones

[James_Madison_Lives]

So the problem with the crazy conspiracy troofers is it turns out they were right. Declassified Israeli cables and even the Jerusalem Post (http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/declassified-israeli-cables-add-evidence-usaliberty-no-accident/article/414951) confirm that Israel attacked USS Liberty deliberately, it was not an accident. What? Forty years of saying no flag was visible on the LIberty and that it was an "accident" was a lie?

Fox News: "Ex-Navy Official: 1967 Israeli Attack on U.S. Ship Was Deliberate" (http://www.foxnews.com/story/2003/10/23/ex-navy-official-167-israeli-attack-on-us-ship-was-deliberate/)


[Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Admiral Thomas] Moorer's panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a U.S. ship. Among them: Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war.




It's called a false flag attack, exactly what "truthers" have been saying. That's also what Truthers say about 9/11.

For people who don't believe the official story about 9/11, the only question is who and why. For those who do, you need 9/11 101 (http://*****://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xif0jIT_ZM), and that's okay. The Lavon Affair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair) was designed to keep troops friendly to Israel in Egypt, by bombing the UK and American embassies. No CT. Settled history. An Israeli defense minister had to resign over it.

USS Liberty, Lavon Affair. Anyone see a pattern here? Stab an ally in the back, blame Muslims. Then watch him do your fighting for you.

In the documentary of USS Liberty survivors The Day Israel Attacked America, the survivors who were attacked exonerate the Jewish people. Find out the criminals who did it, and set history straight.

For why Israel would want America in Iraq and the Middle East as a result of 9/11, we only need to look at the words of Zionist hawks within the Bush administration who were in key positions on 9/11. That means Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a938rumsfeldoutofcontact#a938rums feldoutofcontact), Dov Zakheim, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, Eliot Abrams, full list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...administration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Associations_ with_Bush_administration)

In 1998 Feith and Perle wrote a paper for Netanyahu, repeating the Israeli Neocon plan to bust up the Arab states into Sunni and Shiite warring factions, exactly what is happening today:


"Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right..." - "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Rea lm)



These guys were the Project for a New American Century "crazies" in Colin Powell's words. (http://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/sep/12/Iraqandthemedia.politicsphilosophyandsociety) Note they occupied the levels of government necessary to manipulate the scheduling of the multiple war games (http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/defense/wargames.html) which put most of the fighter interceptor fleet over Canada and the North Atlantic on 9/11, a major shortcoming in the air defenses never addressed by the 9/11 Commission.

And of course, Project for a New American Century member Dick Cheney allowed the incoming aircraft assumed to be Flight 77 to hit the Pentagon, when he had it locked on radar (http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/alibis/cheney.html) and was being asked if it should be shot down as it approached. If the "standing orders" had been shoot-down orders then it would have been shot down, therefore Cheney was being asked to countermand a stand-down order, 9/11 Commission Report. (http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing2/9-11Commission_Hearing_2003-05-23.htm) The Pentagon was hit a full half hour after the second tower had been hit, and all aircraft heading for protected airspace and not identifying themselves had to be assumed to be hostile.

The keys to the kingdom, and Israeli Mossad to step in and do the dirty work for 9/11. How much evidence do Americans need that false flag attacks are real?

If you don't believe it, listen to the USS Liberty survivors below. The same people who were calling USS Liberty "troofers" crazy and merely anti-semitic are the calling the 9/11 truthers crazy too. But guess what? The USS Liberty "troofers were right." And so are the 9/11 ones. Please sit down and study these. Unless we want to be the last free generation in America.

New documentary The Day Israel Attacked America - The Survivors Speak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5mu79ygShs

Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former Director of Studies at US Army War College, General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research, makes argument that CIA and Israeli Mossad did 9/11. Same pattern: drag US into Israel's wars in Middle East.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjJFHZ10C5I

[TaftFan]

Press TV is state-funded[11] and is a division of the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB). IRIB is independent of the Iranian government, but is said to be close to the country's conservative political faction, especially the elite Revolutionary Guards.[2] Its head is appointed directly by the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.[2] PressTV headquarters are located in Tehran, Iran.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_TV#Funding_and_management

[James_Madison_Lives]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_TV#Funding_and_management

The problem with your logic is Dr. Alan Sabrosky isn't PressTV. He is former Director of Studies at US Army War College, and holder of the General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research.

[James_Madison_Lives]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_TV#Funding_and_management

But for that matter PressTV is no more a state run propaganda organ than American TV.

[TaftFan]

The problem with your logic is Dr. Alan Sabrosky isn't PressTV. He is former Director of Studies at US Army War College, and holder of the General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research.

Not true according to this.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/alan-sabrosky.3760/

[Anti Federalist]

Nice job of "sliding" there.

Here is what should be kept at the forefront:


Declassified Israeli cables add evidence USS Liberty no accident

By Ralph Lopez Nov 14, 2014 in World

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/declassified-israeli-cables-add-evidence-usaliberty-no-accident/article/414951

A Special Report by the Chicago Tribune details declassified cables, from the Israeli State Archive, which add further evidence that Israel knew it was attacking an American ship as it attacked the USS Liberty.

Last month, a new documentary broadcast a tape for the first time, of Israeli military transmissions during the attack, which established that the ship was confirmed to be U.S. by 2:14pm that day, local time. The timeline of the attack establishes that the attack continued for another hour after that time.

The point being, that the crazy conspiracy theorists were, once again, right all along.

And we'll (I consider myself an unrepentant 9/11 "truther") be shown to be right about 9/11.

50 odd years from now, when nobody knows or cares or gives a shit, when the AmeriKa is full blown police state with "hot tyranny" on the streets and total corruption in the ruling class, due to, in no small part, the actions taken by government after 9/11 and justified by the alleged events of that day.

[James_Madison_Lives]

Nice job of "sliding" there.

Here is what should be kept at the forefront:



The point being, that the crazy conspiracy theorists were, once again, right all along.

And we'll (I consider myself an unrepentant 9/11 "truther") be shown to be right about 9/11.

50 odd years from now, when nobody knows or cares or gives a shit, when the AmeriKa is full blown police state with "hot tyranny" on the streets and total corruption in the ruling class, due to, in no small part, the actions taken by government after 9/11 and justified by the alleged events of that day.

Correct. It's a pattern. The false flag attack is a standard tool of Israeli foreign policy, going at least as far back as the Lavon Affair when Mossad planted bombs in the American and British embassies and then fingered the Muslim Brotherhood. From Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

The Lavon Affair refers to a failed Israeli covert operation, code named Operation Susannah, conducted in Egypt in the Summer of 1954. As part of the false flag operation,[1] a group of Egyptian Jews were recruited by Israeli military intelligence to plant bombs inside Egyptian, American and British-owned civilian targets, cinemas, libraries and American educational centers. The bombs were timed to detonate several hours after closing time. The attacks were to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Communists, "unspecified malcontents" or "local nationalists" with the aim of creating a climate of sufficient violence and instability to induce the British government to retain its occupying troops in Egypt's Suez Canal zone.

The USS Liberty was another, intended to draw the US into war against Egypt in the middle of the Six Day War, but it failed when the sailors of the Liberty wouldn't let their ship sink, thus leaving witnesses. That's when the "accident" cover-up was concocted.

Now on 9/11 anyone with a brain knows by now that 3 towers built to support five times their weight don't fall in seconds because an airplane hit them (one not even hit.) They only question remaining is WHO and WHY. The answer is in the perpetrators' own words, it's not as if they've been making any secret of their desires to overthrow Saddam and remake the map of the Middle East through years of bloody murder and regime change.

From Project for a New American Century, "Rebuilding America's Defenses" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#.22New_Pearl_ Harbor.22):


"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor"

Who was Project for a New American Century? It was the Neocon "crazies" in the Bush White House, Colin Powell's words, who were all ready with a plan to invade Iraq the day after 9/11, Dick Cheney, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, Eliot Abrams, full list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Associations_ with_Bush_administration

In 1998 Feith and Perle wrote a paper for Netantahu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Rea lm) repeating the age-old Israeli Neocon plan to bust up the Arab states into Sunni and Shiite warring factions, exactly what is happening today:


"Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right..." - "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Rea lm)."

The paper says "an important Israeli objective." But Israel has nowhere near the land army needed to knock out Saddam and occupy Iraq. Only one country does: the US. Maybe Feith and Perle already knew the US would be in Iraq someday.

Then confirmed Mossad agents are arrested dancing and high-fiving in NYC, filming the towers as they burned, and they are caught driving around in vans filled with explosives. But somehow it's already getting blamed on bin Laden (who denies it (http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rep2/obl-2001-interview.html)) and 19 Arab party boys.

Iraq today isn't a "disaster" which is the media meme. It's exactly what was planned: a weak, divided, mess unable to oppose Israeli regional ambitions. And American boys did the dying, dying the crappiest deaths you can imagine, rolling out of Humvees screaming and on fire, where the best thing your buddies could do was let you die because of the pain you would be in for the rest of your life if you lived.

Police scanner audio and the "dancing Israelis":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVkzdTerRCQ

[FloralScent]

a group of Egyptian Jews were recruited by Israeli military intelligence...

I wonder if they were paid or if they just did it out of tribe loyalty.

[DFF]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_TV#Funding_and_management

You know, I've heard better coverage of wars and domestic affairs on evil "state-sanctioned" PressTV and Russia Today than any of the private US MSM.

ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN...and so on, are all in lockstep regarding US foreign policy. There is no fundamental difference between them.

[enhanced_deficit]

But for that matter PressTV is no more a state run propaganda organ than American TV.

I'm not we can trust PressTV, US TV supported mideast interventions/freedom wars and PressTV was critical of them.

[James_Madison_Lives]

I'm not we can trust PressTV, US TV supported mideast interventions/freedom wars and PressTV was critical of them.

If the Pope went on the cartoon channel and spoke you wouldn't be listening to the cartoon channel, you'd be listening to the Pope. You are confusing the medium with the messenger.

In this case a former Director of Studies at US Army War College, Dr. Alan Sabrosky. His teaching and research appointments have included the United States Military Academy, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Middlebury College and Catholic University; adjunct professorships at Georgetown University and the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS).

[Indy Vidual]

Cui bono?


edit:
Blame Bono :p
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/01/09/opinion/opinionspecial/bonosub.jpg

[green73]

You know, I've heard better coverage of wars and domestic affairs on evil "state-sanctioned" PressTV and Russia Today than any of the private US MSM.

ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN...and so on, are all in lockstep regarding US foreign policy. There is no fundamental difference between them.

The latter are actually worse for they pretend to be private.

[TheCount]

In this case a former Director of Studies at US Army War College, Dr. Alan Sabrosky.


According to the Press Office of the Army War College, in the mid-1980s, Sabrosky served as a civilian administrator at a research department of the college, supervising the publication of papers written within that department. His job title was "Director of Studies" because he supervised publishing studies done within a department of the college. He was a mid-level civilian manager at a military college, without access to the sort of highly classified material of the sort he now fraudulently claims to have.

http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2010/05/alan-sabrosky-large-majority-of-us-jews.html


The rest of the claims are similarly dubious. For example, he's not on the emeritus faculty list at Johns Hopkins:
http://www.sais-jhu.edu/faculty-directory?field_profile_campus_nid_1=All&field_last_name_value_1=S&field_profile_program_nid=All&field_faculty_type_tid_1=

Here's the best list of stuff he's published that I can find. You can judge for yourself:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_st_date-desc-rank?qid=1416538439&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3AAlan+Ned+Sabrosky&sort=date-desc-rank

[LibForestPaul]

Nice job of "sliding" there.

Here is what should be kept at the forefront:



The point being, that the crazy conspiracy theorists were, once again, right all along.

And we'll (I consider myself an unrepentant 9/11 "truther") be shown to be right about 9/11.

50 odd years from now, when nobody knows or cares or gives a shit, when the AmeriKa is full blown police state with "hot tyranny" on the streets and total corruption in the ruling class, due to, in no small part, the actions taken by government after 9/11 and justified by the alleged events of that day.

Reichstang fire?

[enhanced_deficit]

If the Pope went on the cartoon channel and spoke you wouldn't be listening to the cartoon channel, you'd be listening to the Pope. You are confusing the medium with the messenger.

In this case a former Director of Studies at US Army War College, Dr. Alan Sabrosky. His teaching and research appointments have included the United States Military Academy, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Middlebury College and Catholic University; adjunct professorships at Georgetown University and the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS).

TWS (that was sarcasm).

[James_Madison_Lives]

TWS (that was sarcasm).

uhhoh. Well anyhow Sabrosky bases his assertion not only on his conversations with brass military and intel, but in this video makes a pretty common sense argument based on three elements, access, ability, and motivation. A combination of rogue CIA and Israeli Mossad meets all three. He says only a few covert ops organizations in the world have the technology and expertise to pull off three fairly sophisticated demolitions, stand-down the air defenses, remote crash the planes, get rid of the evidence, etc. in a hugely complex operation. Then there's the cover-up, every big network and newspaper in your pocket because if they fall out of line they get anthrax letters (http://911research.wtc7.net/post911/terror/anthrax.html).

Here is a former German Inteliigence and Defense Minister, Andreas Von Bulow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_von_B%C3%BClow), describing how and why these things are done. He says these nutballs think they are always at war and a few casualties on your side are "acceptable" in war.

Andreas Von Bulow: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_von_B%C3%BClow)


"Planning the attacks was a master deed, in technical and organizational terms. To hijack four big airliners within a few minutes and fly them into targets within a single hour and doing so on complicated flight routes! That is unthinkable, without backing from the secret apparatuses of state and industry."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsQio3tV3b0

[James_Madison_Lives]

Here's the best list of stuff he's published that I can find. You can judge for yourself:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_st_date-desc-rank?qid=1416538439&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3AAlan+Ned+Sabrosky&sort=date-desc-rank

That is actually a fairly impressive list of publications. He's an academic so these are policy wonk journals. In one he is a co-author with Paul Warnke, the chief arms control negotiator under Jimmy Carter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Warnke

You can't successfully attack Sabrosky's creds, you'll have to think of another approach.

[TheCount]

That is actually a fairly impressive list of publications.

Did you look at the topics? Do they establish any credibility? Are they at all related to what he's talking about now that he's a generic "truther scientist?"

[enhanced_deficit]

If this is confirmed, it would shatter the aipac sponsored notion that zionists/zionist regime care deeply about US interests and those of US troops as the closest ally in the whole wide world.

Related

Motives behind Israel and ISIS attacks against Syria
(http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?464212-Motives-behind-Israel-and-ISIS-attacks-against-Syria&)We had learnt about Israel's motives for attacking Syria over the years but what are motives of ISIS for attacking christian friendly secular regime of Syria? Do the two have same motives & goals?

Adm. Thomas Moorer, writing in the July-August 1997 issue of The Link magazine:
"Israel was preparing to seize the Golan Heights from Syria despite President Johnson's known opposition to such a move.... And I believe Moshe Dayan concluded that he could prevent Washington from becoming aware of what Israel was up to by destroying the primary source of acquiring that information - the [I]USS Liberty."

Source: The Link, July-August 1997

[James_Madison_Lives]

If this is confirmed, it would shatter the aipac sponsored notion that zionists/zionist regime care deeply about US interests and those of US troops as the closest ally in the whole wide world.

There is already enough evidence to present to a grand jury. Dick Cheney's behavior in the command bunker just before flt 77 hit the Pentagon is already in the 9/11 Commission Report. Leon Mineta who was US Secretary of Transportation told the commission that Cheney didn't shoot down flt 77 even though he had it locked on radar.

Mineta to Commission (http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/alibis/cheney.html):


There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y

Cheney is suspect number one, espacially as he took charge when he wasn't even in the chain of command. Number 2 after commander in chief is SecDef, in this case Rumsfeld. While we're at it we can also sit Rumsfeld down and ask what he was doing taking photo ops on the Pentagon lawn when he was supposed to be in charge and directing the air defenses. http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a938rumsfeldoutofcontact#a938rums feldoutofcontact

Then you could always take another approach, start with Rudy Giuliani who ordered all the steel evidence shipped to China (http://www.911research.com/sept11/analysis/evidence.html) and melted under his authority as Mayor of New York. Ask him who ordered it, and work up the ladder.

While we are at it we could also ask Rudy why he ran like a yellow-bellied rat when he had been warned that the first tower was about to blow instead of telling everybody and saving lives. See the NYC firefighters below.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-mo2PIHcis


As for Israel's role, we could start by asking Mike Chertoff who was head of Crminal Division at DOJ why he deported the confirmed Mossad agents who were caught high-fiving and filming the towers as they burned. See below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVkzdTerRCQ

[osan]

So the problem with the crazy conspiracy troofers is it turns out they were right. Declassified Israeli cables (http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/declassified-israeli-cables-add-evidence-usaliberty-no-accident/article/414951) show Israel attacked USS Liberty deliberately, it was not an accident, and the latest desperate fall-back position is "it was a spy ship." Which it was.

What? Forty years of saying no flag was visible on the LIberty and that it was an accident was a lie? That still admits that it was deliberate, and the only question is why.
I'll stick with Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Moorer (http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-moorer.html): The plan was to sink the Liberty, blame Egypt, and draw the US into war on the Israeli side, by cold-bloodedly murdering hundreds of Americans. It's called a false flag attack, exactly what "truthers" have been saying. That's also what many Truthers say about 9/11 (with help from a Cheney faction of the CIA.)

In both cases the object is a blame an enemy so the United States will obliterate him. A third example of this tactic by Israel is the Lavon Affair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair), when Mossad planted bombs in the American and British embassies in order to get British troops to stay. A defense minister was forced to resign over the it.

Now that the veil of lies is coming unglued, guess what else Israeli Mossad was behind? Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former Director of Studies at US Army War College, General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research, makes argument that CIA and Israeli Mossad did 9/11. Same pattern: drag US into Israel's wars in Middle East.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjJFHZ10C5I


But... but...

Global warming...

Evil corporations...

Gay marriage...

Ferguson...

Nine-eleven... no, WAIT!

Ummm.... did I say "global warming?"

[osan]

50 odd years from now, when nobody knows or cares or gives a shit, when the AmeriKa is full blown police state with "hot tyranny" on the streets and total corruption in the ruling class, due to, in no small part, the actions taken by government after 9/11 and justified by the alleged events of that day.

And acceded to by the timid and hopelessly corrupt majority of the American public from at least two sigmas to the "right" of the meaner, all the way to the bottom of the feces-clogged barrel.

[John F Kennedy III]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_TV#Funding_and_management

Will you Israeli apologists ever quit?

[dillo]

I don't know how you can say its a false flag, the idea behind a false flag is to not get indentified and moreover to get the blame placed on someone else. Maybe with a submarine, but not a bomber plane.

[James_Madison_Lives]

I don't know how you can say its a false flag, the idea behind a false flag is to not get indentified and moreover to get the blame placed on someone else. Maybe with a submarine, but not a bomber plane.

Again Israel's plan was to sink the Liberty, kill all the sailors and leave no witnesses. That is why they machine-gunned the life rafts.

[thoughtomator]

USS Liberty Truthers come up with the truth of what LBJ did?

Doesn't seem to me that you got the truth unless you got an explanation of LBJ's actions, which were key to the whole thing.

[jonhowe]

In this case a former Director of Studies at US Army War College, Dr. Alan Sabrosky. His teaching and research appointments have included the United States Military Academy, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Middlebury College and Catholic University; adjunct professorships at Georgetown University and the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS).

What does director of studies at US Army War College do? Not what you think. It's like when Obama calls himself a constitutional scholar: "Sabrosky served as a civilian administrator at a research department of the college, supervising the publication of papers written within that department. His job title was "Director of Studies" because he supervised publishing studies done within a department of the college. He was a mid-level civilian manager at a military college..."

A few teaching positions at middle tier colleges, and giving a couple of lectures of Georgetown does NOT get one access to classified information that Israel did 9/11. NO position at the US Army War College would get one access to such information!


You know, I've heard better coverage of wars and domestic affairs on evil "state-sanctioned" PressTV and Russia Today than any of the private US MSM.

ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN...and so on, are all in lockstep regarding US foreign policy. There is no fundamental difference between them.

But you won't see RT report fairly about internal russian issues (persecution of minorities, the police state they have in effect, etc). The US is acting badly enough that RT needs merely report on it without filter, but that does NOT make them unbiased or a good source of real news.

[jonhowe]

Well anyhow Sabrosky bases his assertion not only on his conversations with brass military and intel, but in this video makes a pretty common sense argument based on three elements, access, ability, and motivation. A combination of rogue CIA and Israeli Mossad meets all three. He says only a few covert ops organizations in the world have the technology and expertise to pull off three fairly sophisticated demolitions, stand-down the air defenses, remote crash the planes, get rid of the evidence, etc. in a hugely complex operation.

There is no evidence Sabrosky had ANY connections with "top brass" or access to "intel". And there is no evidence of demolitions or remote crashes on 9/11.

Whatever video you're about to post, I've already seen it.



EDIT: How does a forum dedicated to Ron Paul manage to veer so far away from his foreign policy?

[jmdrake]

Nice job of "sliding" there.

Here is what should be kept at the forefront:

Declassified Israeli cables add evidence USS Liberty no accident

By Ralph Lopez Nov 14, 2014 in World

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/w...article/414951

A Special Report by the Chicago Tribune details declassified cables, from the Israeli State Archive, which add further evidence that Israel knew it was attacking an American ship as it attacked the USS Liberty.

Last month, a new documentary broadcast a tape for the first time, of Israeli military transmissions during the attack, which established that the ship was confirmed to be U.S. by 2:14pm that day, local time. The timeline of the attack establishes that the attack continued for another hour after that time.

The point being, that the crazy conspiracy theorists were, once again, right all along.

And we'll (I consider myself an unrepentant 9/11 "truther") be shown to be right about 9/11.

50 odd years from now, when nobody knows or cares or gives a shit, when the AmeriKa is full blown police state with "hot tyranny" on the streets and total corruption in the ruling class, due to, in no small part, the actions taken by government after 9/11 and justified by the alleged events of that day.

^This


There is no evidence Sabrosky had ANY connections with "top brass" or access to "intel".

Okay. So? Does that "debunk" the declassified cables? Rhetorical question.


And there is no evidence of demolitions or remote crashes on 9/11.

Actually there is. Check my sig. You might not agree with the conclusions of said evidence but to say it doesn't exist at this point is dishonest.



Whatever video you're about to post, I've already seen it.



EDIT: How does a forum dedicated to Ron Paul manage to veer so far away from his foreign policy?

Ummm...huh? I didn't know Ron Paul's foreign policy was dedicated to AIPAC. Seriously facts are facts and foreign policy is foreign policy. If the USS Liberty attack was deliberate, and it seems that it might have been, discussing that in no way "veers" away from Ron Paul's foreign policy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb3vF6Vcjr0

[parocks]

With all those words, you're missing

Rabbi Dov Zakheim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dov_S._Zakheim

the Wikipedia doesn't cover it much, but

1) A shit ton on money was discovered missing on 9/10

2) Zakheim was in charge of that money

3) Zakheim was involved in remote controlled planes.

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43927
DoD financial experts, Zakheim said, are making good progress reconciling the department's "lost" expenditures, trimming them from a prior estimated total of $2.3 trillion to $700 billion. And, he added, the amount continues to drop.

And here's what the conspiracy people think about this
http://www.rense.com/general75/latest.htm
Latest On Rabbi Zakheim And The Missing $2.3 Trillion

That there above is the story. It's a conspiracy source, so it could all be BS. I don't know. But I'd look there if I wanted answers.



I'm not one who is going to be finding out new stuff here.

I've known about the USS Liberty since before 9/11. There was a website around back in the day called Liberty Forum. Their biggest issue was the USS Liberty. There were like 100 survivors and 100% of them all said that yes, they knew it was a US ship. It's nice that Israel is admitting it, but I always thought it was settled fact.

Yes, Israel really loves the false flag op. Certainly, knowing that Israel intentionally attacked a US ship to get us into their war on their side tends to bias ones theories about 9/11. There really isn't the evidence for 9/11 that there is about USS Liberty.





Correct. It's a pattern. The false flag attack is a standard tool of Israeli foreign policy, going at least as far back as the Lavon Affair when Mossad planted bombs in the American and British embassies and then fingered the Muslimh o Brotherhood. From Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair


The USS Liberty was another, intended to draw the US into war against Egypt in the middle of the Six Day War, but it failed when the sailors of the Liberty wouldn't let their ship sink, thus leaving witnesses. That's when the "accident" cover-up was concocted.

Now on 9/11 anyone with a brain knows by now that 3 towers built to support five times their weight don't fall in seconds because an airplane hit them (one not even hit.) They only question remaining is WHO and WHY. The answer is in the perpetrators' own words, it's not as if they've been making any secret of their desires to overthrow Saddam and remake the map of the Middle East through years of bloody murder and regime change.

From Project for a New American Century, "Rebuilding America's Defenses" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#.22New_Pearl_ Harbor.22):


Who was Project for a New American Century? It was the Neocon "crazies" in the Bush White House, Colin Powell's words, who were all ready with a plan to invade Iraq the day after 9/11, Dick Cheney, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, Eliot Abrams, full list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Associations_ with_Bush_administration

In 1998 Feith and Perle wrote a paper for Netantahu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Rea lm) repeating the age-old Israeli Neocon plan to bust up the Arab states into Sunni and Shiite warring factions, exactly what is happening today:



The paper says "an important Israeli objective." But Israel has nowhere near the land army needed to knock out Saddam and occupy Iraq. Only one country does: the US. Maybe Feith and Perle already knew the US would be in Iraq someday.

Then confirmed Mossad agents are arrested dancing and high-fiving in NYC, filming the towers as they burned, and they are caught driving around in vans filled with explosives. But somehow it's already getting blamed on bin Laden (who denies it (http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rep2/obl-2001-interview.html)) and 19 Arab party boys.

Iraq today isn't a "disaster" which is the media meme. It's exactly what was planned: a weak, divided, mess unable to oppose Israeli regional ambitions. And American boys did the dying, dying the crappiest deaths you can imagine, rolling out of Humvees screaming and on fire, where the best thing your buddies could do was let you die because of the pain you would be in for the rest of your life if you lived.

Police scanner audio and the "dancing Israelis":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVkzdTerRCQ

[jonhowe]

Actually there is. Check my sig. You might not agree with the conclusions of said evidence but to say it doesn't exist at this point is dishonest.




Ummm...huh? I didn't know Ron Paul's foreign policy was dedicated to AIPAC. Seriously facts are facts and foreign policy is foreign policy. If the USS Liberty attack was deliberate, and it seems that it might have been, discussing that in no way "veers" away from Ron Paul's foreign policy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb3vF6Vcjr0

There is no evidence of demolitions on 9/11.

Ron Paul's foreign policy has a strong basis on the idea of blowback being the main cause of 9/11, not 'mossad'.

[pcosmar]

There is no evidence of demolitions on 9/11.


Yes,, there is.

But it is being suppressed.
There is plenty of evidence.

[enhanced_deficit]

Jerry Converse publicly honored 47 years after he was killed aboard USS Liberty (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?463659-Jerry-Converse-publicly-honored-47-years-after-he-was-killed-aboard-USS-Liberty&)

[asurfaholic]

There is no evidence of demolitions on 9/11.



Exactly. Because there is an abundance of evidence of sky scrapers collapsing in free fall into its own footprint due to "fire." Including one building which was not hit by a plane.

Oh wait..

[PRB]

But for that matter PressTV is no more a state run propaganda organ than American TV.

Sorry, I keep forgetting, who runs our media? Jews? Liberals? or the government?

[James_Madison_Lives]

There is no evidence of demolitions on 9/11.

Ron Paul's foreign policy has a strong basis on the idea of blowback being the main cause of 9/11, not 'mossad'.

I just presented to you reams of evidence that:

- Teams of Mossad agents were confirmed and present in NYC on 9/'11 (http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html), some of them filming the towers burning, high-fiving, and posing for pictures flicking cigarette lighters. Some teams were caught driving vans filled with explosives. According to police audio below one van had a mural of a plane diving into NYC on it. You can't say those Mossad guys don't have a sense of humor. From well-respected NYC newspaper the Jewish Forward, regarding just one of the teams (http://historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091604israelissue#a091604israeli ssue):


"The FBI will later conclude at least two of the five are Mossad agents and that all were on a Mossad surveillance mission."

- They were deported by Michael Chertoff, head of the criminal division of the FBI over the objection of field agents.

- Israeli foreign policy thinkers for decades have articulated a strategy of overthrowing Saddam, and fracturing the Middle East into warring Sunni and Shiite factions. That is exactly what is happening today, enabled by the events of 9/11. General Wes Clark even let the cat out of the bag when he said the plan was to "take out 7 countries in 5 years." They are behind scheduled only because of the unexpected ferocity of the Iraqi resistance.

Infuential Israeli Neocon Oded Yinon, in his paper “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties” (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33220.htm)(1982):


"In Iraq, a division into provinces along ethnic/religious lines as in Syria during Ottoman times is possible. So, three (or more) states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul, and Shi'ite areas in the south will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish north."

Bush administration foreign policy gurus Richard Perle and Douglas Feith, in a paper they wrote for Netanyahu in 1998:


"Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right..."

The name of that famous paper is "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Rea lm)

Note "the realm" to Feith and Perle, high US policy officials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Associations_ with_Bush_administration), refers to Israel, not the US. Feith and Perle were only two of the Project for a New American Century Neocons in perfect placement on 9/11, at the top of the Defense Department. NOTE: israel does not have the land army to "remove" Saddam from power. Whose army were Feith and Perle talking about 1n 1998? Saddam was too well-entrenched for a coup or assassination attempt, which is why Bush said there was no choice but to invade.

Moreover, soon after 2000 the US becomes swamped with Israeli agents posing as "art students" scouting out government buildings. From the thoroughly documented site History Commons:


January 2000: Israeli Spy Ring Begins Penetrating US (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a0100spyringbegins#a0100spyringbe gins)

A DEA government document later leaked to the press [Drug Enforcement Agency, 6/2001] suggests that a large Israeli spy ring starts penetrating the US from at least this time, if not earlier. This ring, which will later become popularly known as the “art student spy ring,” is later shown to have unusual connections to the events of 9/11. [Insight, 3/11/2002] READ MORE... (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a0100spyringbegins#a0100spyringbe gins)

9/11 is fulfilling the Israeli agenda perfectly. Iraq is not a "disaster" as the media repeats, it is a resounding success. Weak, helpless Muslim states unable to oppose Israeli hegemonic ambitions. People like Feith and Perle running the Defense Department.

Please address these hard facts and stop saying sillly things like "there is no evidence of demoltion."

Wes Clark: They are going to do 5 countries in 7 years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw

Police transmissions, vans full of explosives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EVkzdTerRCQ

The "dancing Israelis" (http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html) later on an Israeli talk show, saying they were in NYC to "document the event." How did they know there was going to be an event?
Oded Ellner
https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/ijboghZBB86_c2w9gliVEXWt2VkB-d-FCqahOuz81QqWpcb2u9OtoKk89E5RY-oLe6-4pbCq0q4k2FlGbTIcdUBl9JqCUSk24NHtmfqQZTvVpmGSafPwj qvZJGCq8Pno3PzSxzEb=s0-d-e1-ft#http://cdn.historycommons.org/images/events/a799_oded_ellner_2050081722-8742.jpg

Omer Marmari
https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/K8GOGwNF4nHE2EeLyEPzU-fX-xR8s__-ErCdfQpS2JeDn6Un8OMBttR_Vvn81XndDLL3k9gBG5hA7BTqLR huqKkfVm-Vr8glPrKETaVlSAG6IgaQBBZvGjDSrUzWi_g785NUuFItyQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://cdn.historycommons.org/images/events/a800_omer_marmari_2050081722-8773.jpg

Kurzberg brothers in studio audience of Israeli talk show "We were there to document the event."
https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/D30b0BHaO0AzR7fyo11-MCf171-5XpmN5Sp-rbuGwQ8H4llovgltQwGFnMpTRJYKXurVURsuO649i3t7aPQIPV G_lXxZkSQS=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.bollyn.com/public/Kurzberg_brothers.JPG

[James_Madison_Lives]

With all those words, you're missing

Rabbi Dov Zakheim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dov_S._Zakheim

the Wikipedia doesn't cover it much, but

1) A shit ton on money was discovered missing on 9/10

2) Zakheim was in charge of that money

3) Zakheim was involved in remote controlled planes.

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43927
DoD financial experts, Zakheim said, are making good progress reconciling the department's "lost" expenditures, trimming them from a prior estimated total of $2.3 trillion to $700 billion. And, he added, the amount continues to drop.

And here's what the conspiracy people think about this
http://www.rense.com/general75/latest.htm
Latest On Rabbi Zakheim And The Missing $2.3 Trillion

That there above is the story. It's a conspiracy source, so it could all be BS. I don't know. But I'd look there if I wanted answers.



I'm not one who is going to be finding out new stuff here.

I've known about the USS Liberty since before 9/11. There was a website around back in the day called Liberty Forum. Their biggest issue was the USS Liberty. There were like 100 survivors and 100% of them all said that yes, they knew it was a US ship. It's nice that Israel is admitting it, but I always thought it was settled fact.

Yes, Israel really loves the false flag op. Certainly, knowing that Israel intentionally attacked a US ship to get us into their war on their side tends to bias ones theories about 9/11. There really isn't the evidence for 9/11 that there is about USS Liberty.

Dov Zakheim, CFO of the Pentagon at the time $2.3 TRILLION goes missing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpWqdPMjmo&feature=player_embedded) from the Pentagon, which was announced THE DAY BEFORE 9/11, was also a member of Project for a New American Century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Associations_ with_Bush_administration) and the inventor, through his company SPC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dov_S._Zakheim), of "anti-hijack" software which allowed ground controllers to take control of an airliner remotely and guide it toward a target. The name of the software is FTS for Flight Terminbation System, an image from the SPC website is below.

"SPC Flight Termination System" (http://www.sysplan.com/capabilities/radar/fts/)

http://www.sysplan.com/images_content/radar/products/fts/FTS.jpg

Remember Project for a New American Century is the Neocon think tank which in 1998 wished for a "new Pearl Harbor" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#.22New_Pearl_ Harbor.22) to allow the US to overthrow Saddam.

In 2001 George Bush lied about such technology which allowed "air traffic controllers to land distressed planes by remote control" being "far in the future." (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a100201raytheon#a100201raytheon) The technology had already been tested out (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a100201raytheon#a100201raytheon) at Halloran AFB in NM.

This would explain how the 9/11 planes took complex, far inland flight paths, requiring sophisticated navigation, to thread a needle three times in a row. German Defense Minister Andreas Von Bulow commented on this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_von_B%C3%BClow):


"Planning the attacks was a master deed, in technical and organizational terms. To hijack four big airliners within a few minutes and fly them into targets within a single hour and doing so on complicated flight routes! That is unthinkable, without backing from the secret apparatuses of state and industry."

Flight paths on 9/11:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Flight_paths_of_hijacked_planes-September_11_attacks.jpg

Of course remote control technology is old. We see it in the air over Afghanistan every day, where pilots sitting in Nevada are controlling the drones. See "Who Did 9/11: Technology of Autopilot/Remote Flight. Motive, Means, Opportunity" (http://911explained.blogspot.com/search?q=zakheim)

Zakheim is also a hardcore Zionist whose father was a member of Irgun (http://open.salon.com/blog/gordon_wagner/2010/07/19/dov_zakheim_retires_from_booz_allen_hamilton), the terrorist organization which bombed British targets in order to found Israel. Many think he was the mastermind in the US of 9/11.

From History Commons: (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a100201raytheon#a100201raytheon)

http://cdn.historycommons.org/images/events/376_raytheon_remote7272050081722-9278.jpg

"A Raytheon 727 lands in New Mexico in August, 2001. [Source: Associated Press] It is reported that the US company Raytheon landed a 727 six times in a military base in New Mexico without any pilots on board. This was done to test equipment making future hijackings more difficult, by allowing ground control to take over the flying of a hijacked plane." [Associated Press, 10/2/2001; Der Spiegel (Hamburg), 10/28/2001]

[ZENemy]

Sorry, I keep forgetting, who runs our media? Jews? Liberals? or the government?

Jewvermenterals!

[mosquitobite]

USS Liberty survivors still hold a commemoration event in Washington DC every year, to which, every year, US Congressmen and Defense Department officials are invited to attend. To date, not a single congressman or DoD official has attended. The survivors have pledged to try to continue to have the ceremony each year for as long as any of them remain alive.

Not even Ron Paul?

[enhanced_deficit]

Let's wait till all the facts come out.

So far we know that Iraq War Truthers and Lavon Affair Truthers were right. If USS Liberty is confirmed by MSM as False Flag, then it would go on same list.

[DFF]

The US needs to dump Israel in the worst kind of way then follow Bolivia's lead, and reclassify it as a terrorist state.

[James_Madison_Lives]

The US needs to dump Israel in the worst kind of way then follow Bolivia's lead, and reclassify it as a terrorist state.

It won't happen until we start knocking off GOP congressmen in primaries, this batch kowtows to Israel. We are getting close and have good candidates - Alan Arcand, Jim Bussler, Josh Tucker, but they need to run again to close the money gap. You can't beat people with 10-1 money advantage by campaiging for 12 months before the primary, but if they build on their 2014 showings and keep right on campaigning like the last election never happened, they might. I say 2016 is when we have to get our country back or it's gone for good.

"Congressional challengers put up fight despite incumbent money" (http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/op-ed-incumbents-swamp-challengers-with-money-100-to-1-still-get-fight/article/395377)

[James_Madison_Lives]

Let's wait till all the facts come out.

So far we know that Iraq War Truthers and Lavon Affair Truthers were right. If USS Liberty is confirmed by MSM as False Flag, then it would go on same list.

I'd say when it is coming from the Jerusalem Post and the Israeli State Archives, it's confirmed.

[Peace Piper]

Of course remote control technology is old. We see it in the air over Afghanistan every day, where pilots sitting in Nevada are controlling the drones.

Since at least 1984


The Controlled Impact Demonstration (or colloquially the Crash In the Desert) was a joint project between NASA and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) aimed at acquiring data, as well as demonstrating and testing new technologies...

... The tests involved the efforts of NASA, Langley RC, Dryden RC, the FAA, and General Electric, and required more than 4 years of work before the test occurred in 1984. The aircraft was remotely controlled for the tests, and numerous test runs were undertaken prior to performing the actual impact...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/CID_practice.jpg/1280px-CID_practice.jpg
Boeing 720 flying under remote control in California circa 1984

...Over a series of 14 flights...the aircraft made approximately 69 approaches, to about 150 feet (46 m) above the prepared crash site, under remote control...

On the morning of December 1, 1984, the test aircraft took off from Edwards Air Force Base, California, made a left-hand departure and climbed to an altitude of 2,300 feet (700 m). The aircraft was remotely flown by NASA research pilot Fitzhugh Fulton from the NASA Dryden Remotely Controlled Vehicle Facility.

That was 30 years ago, 17 years before 911
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Impact_Demonstration

[James_Madison_Lives]

Since at least 1984


The Controlled Impact Demonstration (or colloquially the Crash In the Desert) was a joint project between NASA and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) aimed at acquiring data, as well as demonstrating and testing new technologies...

... The tests involved the efforts of NASA, Langley RC, Dryden RC, the FAA, and General Electric, and required more than 4 years of work before the test occurred in 1984. The aircraft was remotely controlled for the tests, and numerous test runs were undertaken prior to performing the actual impact...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/CID_practice.jpg/1280px-CID_practice.jpg
Boeing 720 flying under remote control in California circa 1984

...Over a series of 14 flights...the aircraft made approximately 69 approaches, to about 150 feet (46 m) above the prepared crash site, under remote control...

On the morning of December 1, 1984, the test aircraft took off from Edwards Air Force Base, California, made a left-hand departure and climbed to an altitude of 2,300 feet (700 m). The aircraft was remotely flown by NASA research pilot Fitzhugh Fulton from the NASA Dryden Remotely Controlled Vehicle Facility.

That was 30 years ago, 17 years before 911
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Impact_Demonstration


What's amazing that, knowing not a single thing more about 9/11 than what is already on the public record, any prosecutor would already have a pretty solid case and list of suspects. How often do criminals leave written evidence that they would like to see "a new Pearl Harbor" and then be in exactly the right positions to make that Pearl Harbor happen, when it actually does?


"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" - Project for a New American Century, whose members include Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Dov Zakheim, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, Eliot Abrams,in the document Rebuilding America's Defenses. full list here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Associations_ with_Bush_administration).

[enhanced_deficit]

On a different p note, why free US media never talks about/honors USS Liberty heroes on its anniversaries? Without internet , many people including myself would never have even heard about it.

[enhanced_deficit]

There is already enough evidence to present to a grand jury. ..

Two words:
Ferguson Grand Jury.

[James_Madison_Lives]

On a different p note, why free US media never talks about/honors USS Liberty heroes on its anniversaries? Without internet , many people including myself would never have even heard about it.

For the same reason Congress gives Netanyahu 20 standing ovations. The more people know about the Liberty the More people realize Israel is a terrorist state which is sucking the US dry to fulfill its expansionist Middle East agenda.

Trailer to The Day Israel Attacked America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9iSwsYPpdc

[James_Madison_Lives]

Two words:
Ferguson Grand Jury.

Justice for 9/11 will require a true sweep of congress which will mean the appointment of committee chairs who will start calling in people like Cheney and asking why he let Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, or ask Rudy Giuliani why he ordered the destruction of the steel evidence.

[enhanced_deficit]

While not opposed to thorough independent investigation, I'm not convinced that 9/11 was a Lavon Affair type event based on what is reported in MSM so far.

Canadian MP who presented 9/11 inquiry petition in House named 3rd Most Valuable Politician (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?464664-Canadian-MP-who-presented-9-11-inquiry-petition-in-House-named-3rd-Most-Valuable-Politician&)

[James_Madison_Lives]

While not opposed to thorough independent investigation, I'm not convinced that 9/11 was a Lavon Affair type event based on what is reported in MSM so far.

Canadian MP who presented 9/11 inquiry petition in House named 3rd Most Valuable Politician (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?464664-Canadian-MP-who-presented-9-11-inquiry-petition-in-House-named-3rd-Most-Valuable-Politician&)

No one who fully understands what Galileo said can believe the official story, which is that zillions and zillions of tons of concrete (usually all in caps for the American dummies) drove the "plunger" faster and faster toward the ground, as it one floor collapsed on top of the next. What is wrong with that is there is no such thing as objects falling faster as they get heavier. All objects fall at the same speed, through air, regardless of weight. That's Galileo.

The falling concrete could only have fallen much slower than free-fall speed, because of the resistance beneath it. The virtual free-fall speed is the dead giveaway. Mass can only fall as fast as something falls through thin air if it is falling...through thin air. That's what a demolition is. The structure is cut up all and once, and is pieces falling through air.

[TheCount]

The falling concrete could only have fallen much slower than free-fall speed, because of the resistance beneath it. The virtual free-fall speed is the dead giveaway.

I see that you say "virtual free-fall" which implies that it is not free fall. Did you measure the speed? At what speed did the building fall, and how does that compare to the collapse of other buildings?

[Legend1104]

Lets hope that Obama doesn't call for an investigation. Then Republicans will claim the report was dem. biased and that it is false etc. etc.

It needs to be done by a Republican Congress/Senate.

[James_Madison_Lives]

I see that you say "virtual free-fall" which implies that it is not free fall. Did you measure the speed? At what speed did the building fall, and how does that compare to the collapse of other buildings?

You can follow a piece of the debris which was blown out and fallng through the air and see that the demolition line is approximately keeping pace with it. That is free fall speed, the speed at which an object falls through air, which is actually an acceleration of 10 meters^3 (it accelerates at a rate of ten meters per second, per second.)

Solid steel is 8,000 times denser than air and so that is the order of magnitude by which the falling mass would have been slowed, had it been "plowing" through the frame below. Think of how fast a steel beam would be dropping to earth through a giant bottle of Prell shampoo, like that old commercial where they drop a pearl into the bottle to show how viscous it is. Steel is many times more resistant than even that.

More notably, you can see the tower frames being cut to pieces and blown out at explosive speeds.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIi0I5v5ZXw

Galileo demonstration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z789eth4lFU



how does that compare to the collapse of other buildings?

No building in history has ever collapsed in this manner without it being a demolition, never mind 3 of them in one day. In very bad fires, parts of buildings have collapsed after raging infernoes lasting 12-20 hours, but still most of the building remains standing.

Windsor tower, burned 20 hours
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/docs/windsor4.jpg
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/docs/windsor6.jpg

WTC core assembly under construction
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/enr/construction_1.jpg

[TheCount]

You can follow a piece of the debris which was blown out and fallng through the air and see that the demolition line is approximately keeping pace with it. That is free fall speed, the speed at which an object falls through air, which is actually an acceleration of 10 meters^3 (it accelerates at a rate of ten meters per second, per second.)


So, no, and no.



Windsor tower, burned 20 hours
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/docs/windsor4.jpg


Would you care to describe what happened to the steel sections of this tower?

Was it always as asymmetrical as it is in this picture you've linked?

[James_Madison_Lives]

So, no, and no.




Would you care to describe what happened to the steel sections of this tower?

Was it always as asymmetrical as it is in this picture you've linked?

This looks pretty asymmetrical to me, and the partial collapse took place over the course of hours, piece by piece. Repeat after me: vertical steel support columns do not squash flat in seconds because a little kerosene splashed on them. That's all jet fuel is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/docs/windsor6.jpg

Timeline of Windsor partial collapse
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/windsor.html
Time Collapse Situation
1:29 East face of the 21st floor collapsed
1:37 South middle section of several floors above the 21st floor gradually collapsed
1:50 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:02 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:11 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:13 Floors above about 25th floor collapsed Large collapse of middle section at about 20th floor
2:17 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:47 Southwest corner of 1 ~ 2 floors below about 20th floor collapsed
2:51 Southeast corner of about 18th ~ 20th floors collapsed
3:35 South middle section of about 17th ~ 20th floors collapsed Fire broke through the Upper Technical Floor
3:48 Fire flame spurted out below the Upper Technical Floor
4:17 Debris on the Upper Technical Floor fell down

[jmdrake]

I see that you say "virtual free-fall" which implies that it is not free fall. Did you measure the speed? At what speed did the building fall, and how does that compare to the collapse of other buildings?

WTC 7 fell in 5.9 seconds. A comparable building known to have been a controlled demolition took 10 seconds. WTC 7 fell as fast, or faster, than a typical controlled demolition.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?391227-Calculations-to-prove-WTC-7-fell-at-quot-free-fall-quot-speed&highlight=free+fall

[dannno]

WTC 7 fell in 5.9 seconds. A comparable building known to have been a controlled demolition took 10 seconds. WTC 7 fell as fast, or faster, than a typical controlled demolition.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?391227-Calculations-to-prove-WTC-7-fell-at-quot-free-fall-quot-speed&highlight=free+fall

Yes, because it was a very expensive, discreet and highly advanced controlled demolition.

[TheCount]

This looks pretty asymmetrical to me, and the partial collapse took place over the course of hours, piece by piece. Repeat after me: vertical steel support columns do not squash flat in seconds because a little kerosene splashed on them.

The steel sections of the building weakened and collapsed due to the heat of the fire? I'd heard that wasn't possible.


Was this building supported by a distributed series of vertical supports and a stiff outer skin?


Is there a reason that you chose that view of the building rather than something like this?

http://www.iklimnet.com/hotelfires/imagesfire/slide0008_image013.jpg

[TheCount]

WTC 7 fell in 5.9 seconds. A comparable building known to have been a controlled demolition took 10 seconds. WTC 7 fell as fast, or faster, than a typical controlled demolition.

Does controlled demolition cause the building to fall at free fall speed?

[idiom]

Since at least 1984


The Controlled Impact Demonstration (or colloquially the Crash In the Desert) was a joint project between NASA and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) aimed at acquiring data, as well as demonstrating and testing new technologies...

... The tests involved the efforts of NASA, Langley RC, Dryden RC, the FAA, and General Electric, and required more than 4 years of work before the test occurred in 1984. The aircraft was remotely controlled for the tests, and numerous test runs were undertaken prior to performing the actual impact...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/CID_practice.jpg/1280px-CID_practice.jpg
Boeing 720 flying under remote control in California circa 1984

...Over a series of 14 flights...the aircraft made approximately 69 approaches, to about 150 feet (46 m) above the prepared crash site, under remote control...

On the morning of December 1, 1984, the test aircraft took off from Edwards Air Force Base, California, made a left-hand departure and climbed to an altitude of 2,300 feet (700 m). The aircraft was remotely flown by NASA research pilot Fitzhugh Fulton from the NASA Dryden Remotely Controlled Vehicle Facility.

That was 30 years ago, 17 years before 911
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Impact_Demonstration

But I thought the Truthers were right about the planes being holograms???

We all know jet fuel couldn't bring the towers down, which is why the planes were loaded as standard with the chem-trail mixes that burn at much hotter temperatures.

Officially, the hijackers were from a CIA built and trained operation, but another part of the government wanted to frame the CIA by making it look like CIA trained Saudi operatives hijacked planes and took down the towers, when really all the passengers were secretly killed in the airport lobby so that holograms could fly into the towers as explosives were set off that had been planted during the 1970's when the towers were built as a cold war false flag that was never used.

Is that the bit the truthers are right about?

I am confused.

[acptulsa]

Does controlled demolition cause the building to fall at free fall speed?

Which controlled demolition? No two are the same. One size fits all never fits.

An object which is aerodynamic, or heavy enough that it doesn't much matter if it's aerodynamic or not, will fall at free fall speed if it is suddenly left with no means of support whatsoever. Period.


I am confused.

Then I guess COINTEL is doing its job. Or you aren't looking hard enough, or bright enough, to separate the wheat from the chaff. And the Official Report is definitely a fine example of chaff.

[acptulsa]

Has to be the weather...

[TheCount]

Which controlled demolition? No two are the same. One size fits all never fits.

An object which is not particularly aerodynamic, or heavy enough that it doesn't much matter if it's aerodynamic or not, will fall at free fall speed if it is suddenly left with no means of support whatsoever. Period.

I'm trying to decipher how one building can fall at near free fall speed like a controlled demolition would fall, but then later in the same thread I learn that a controlled demolition fell slower. Does that mean that conspiracy involved downward-shaped explosives or rockets that actually propelled the WTC sections toward the ground at faster than free fall speeds?

[TheCount]

But I thought the Truthers were right about the planes being holograms???

We all know jet fuel couldn't bring the towers down, which is why the planes were loaded as standard with the chem-trail mixes that burn at much hotter temperatures.

Officially, the hijackers were from a CIA built and trained operation, but another part of the government wanted to frame the CIA by making it look like CIA trained Saudi operatives hijacked planes and took down the towers, when really all the passengers were secretly killed in the airport lobby so that holograms could fly into the towers as explosives were set off that had been planted during the 1970's when the towers were built as a cold war false flag that was never used.

Is that the bit the truthers are right about?

I am confused.

That's the simple conspiracy that brought down the south tower. Two different, unrelated, and infinitely more complex conspiracies used different techniques to take down the other buildings. One was the jewnukes revealed by Veterans Today. (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/09/11/the-day-the-world-fell-down-9-11-was-a-nuclear-attack/) The other was an orbital laser weapon as discovered by Dr. Judy Wood. (http://wheredidthetowersgo.com/about/) The fact that it all happened within hours is evidence that the conspiracies were closely related and perhaps orchestrated by allied groups.

[jmdrake]

Does controlled demolition cause the building to fall at free fall speed?

I'm just reporting the facts. WTC 7 fell as fast or faster than the typical controlled demolition. Whether or not that is quite "free fall speed" is irrelevant. It's much faster than the theorized "progressive collapse" would be.

[jmdrake]

Then I guess COINTEL is doing its job. Or you aren't looking hard enough, or bright enough, to separate the wheat from the chaff. And the Official Report is definitely a fine example of chaff.

^This.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to acptulsa again.

[HVACTech]

I'm trying to decipher how one building can fall at near free fall speed like a controlled demolition would fall, but then later in the same thread I learn that a controlled demolition fell slower. Does that mean that conspiracy involved downward-shaped explosives or rockets that actually propelled the WTC sections toward the ground at faster than free fall speeds?

ya know.. I have seen some pretty asinine questions asked in my time. but that one takes the cake.
with luck, I have immortalized it by replying with a quote.

[phill4paul]

Then I guess COINTEL is doing its job. Or you aren't looking hard enough, or bright enough, to separate the wheat from the chaff. And the Official Report is definitely a fine example of chaff.


^This.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to acptulsa again.

Covered.

[Mach]

Was cruising around and seen a comment on a video, I already know this, but it was a good quick overview of Jet/Airliner fuel for anyone that hasn't ever really dug into this stuff.... or the ones still in denial........................... I know.


cody yoder
3 weeks ago

Hello youtubers, I am A1C Yoder in the US air force. My career field is repairing piece of shit C - 130's and KC - 135's fuel cell systems inside the wings. Jet fuel is my specialty. my afsc is 2a654.
Military uses a quality of jet fuel known as JP-8. Air liners use Jet A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_fuel). For both grades of fuel they have a very high volatility measurment. Meaning they vaporize, very fast and consume a whole lot of oxygen. They don't burn very hot to be honest. that isn't the design of jet fuel, the design is to create a lot of pressure and use a lot of oxygen. In fact, air planes require pressure systems in order to pressurize the engins to push even more oxygen into them. To say that "oh it was jet fuel that burned metal slabs and giant concrete support beams" is absolutely absurd people. You've seen videos and aftermath of air plane crashes right? do you see the air plane being burnt to molten steel? do you see them burning for hours? Absolutely not!

The Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwq04_KhCeI

[idiom]

Then I guess COINTEL is doing its job. Or you aren't looking hard enough, or bright enough, to separate the wheat from the chaff. And the Official Report is definitely a fine example of chaff.

Oh, just skipping the question then. Which 9/11 truthers are right? A lot of the claims are mutually exclusive.

Anything to back up one particular thread, or are going to go with the generally intellectually dishonest, "God revealed the truth of 9/11 to me personally in a vision" instead of "Something is fucky, but that is all the detail I have."

[Peace Piper]

I'm just reporting the facts. WTC 7 fell as fast or faster than the typical controlled demolition. Whether or not that is quite "free fall speed" is irrelevant. It's much faster than the theorized "progressive collapse" would be.

Here's what NIST says:


11. In a video, it appears that WTC 7 is descending in free fall, something that would not occur in the structural collapse that you describe. How can NIST ignore basic laws of physics?

In the draft WTC 7 report (released Aug. 21, 2008; available at http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/wtc_draftreports.cfm), NIST stated that the north face of the building descended 18 stories (the portion of the collapse visible in the video) in 5.4 seconds, based on video analysis of the building collapse. This time period is 40 percent longer than the 3.9 seconds this process would have taken if the north face of the building had descended solely under free fall conditions. During the public comment period on the draft report, NIST was asked to confirm this time difference and define the reasons for it in greater detail.

To further clarify the descent of the north face, NIST recorded the downward displacement of a point near the center of the roofline from first movement until the north face was no longer visible in the video. Numerical analyses were conducted to calculate the velocity and acceleration of the roofline point from the time-dependent displacement data. The instant at which vertical motion of the roofline first occurred was determined by tracking the numerical value of the brightness of a pixel (a single element in the video image) at the roofline. This pixel became brighter as the roofline began to descend because the color of the pixel started to change from that of the building façade to the lighter color of the sky.

The approach taken by NIST is summarized in NIST NCSTAR Report 1A, Section 3.6, and detailed in NIST NCSTAR Report 1-9, Section 12.5.3.

The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:


Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)
Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity

This analysis showed that the 40 percent longer descent time—compared to the 3.9 second free fall time—was due primarily to Stage 1, which corresponded to the buckling of the exterior columns in the lower stories of the north face. During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below. This is consistent with the structural analysis model, which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above. In Stage 3, the acceleration decreased as the upper portion of the north face encountered increased resistance from the collapsed structure and the debris pile below.
http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtc7.cfm


From David Chandler


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVCDpL4Ax7I

More from Consensus911.org:

In its initial report on the building collapses, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) discussed only the Twin Towers, omitting WTC 7. A separate report on this building was repeatedly delayed because, in the words of project director Shyam Sunder, “We’ve had trouble getting a handle on building No. 7.”[4] NIST’s Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 was released in November 2008 (when the Bush administration was ready to leave office). NIST offered a computer-generated graphical simulation to finally explain the collapse.

Snip

A building undergoing progressive collapse would come down in a sequential manner. Sections would be expected to fail as they lost support. However, from measurements of the collapse time, it could not have been progressive or sequential:

From the time of the collapse of the East Penthouse to the onset of global collapse, the building appeared, from all external signs, to retain its overall integrity. The transition from total support to freefall was sudden.[8] The building fell with a horizontal roofline, implying that catastrophic failure across the entire width of the building (100 meters east to west) occurred virtually simultaneously within a fraction of a second...
http://www.consensus911.org/point-wtc7-4/

NIST Refuses to release its computer models citing "public safety".

There's this too:


8. Why did WTC 7 collapse, while no other known building in history has collapsed due to fires alone?

The collapse of WTC 7 is the first known instance of a tall building brought down primarily by uncontrolled fires. The fires in WTC 7 were similar to those that have occurred in several tall buildings where the automatic sprinklers did not function or were not present. These other buildings, including Philadelphia's One Meridian Plaza, a 38-story skyscraper that burned for 18 hours in 1991, did not collapse due to differences in the design of the structural system (see the answer to Question 9).

Lots of "firsts" that day

[Slave Mentality]

Oh, just skipping the question then. Which 9/11 truthers are right? A lot of the claims are mutually exclusive.

Anything to back up one particular thread, or are going to go with the generally intellectually dishonest, "God revealed the truth of 9/11 to me personally in a vision" instead of "Something is fucky, but that is all the detail I have."

We will probably never know the real truth, but if you still believe the official story you are just blind. I don't get involved in any of the truther crap, but I also have a good sense of when I am wading through bullshit. The official story is just as much bullshit as the wildest conspiracy story out there.

What has happened in years since the operation is enough evidence that plans were ready in waiting. That wasn't by accident.

[vita3]

"What has happened in years since the operation is enough evidence that plans were ready in waiting. That wasn't by accident."

Exactly.

[jmdrake]

Oh, just skipping the question then. Which 9/11 truthers are right? A lot of the claims are mutually exclusive.

Anything to back up one particular thread, or are going to go with the generally intellectually dishonest, "God revealed the truth of 9/11 to me personally in a vision" instead of "Something is fucky, but that is all the detail I have."

You are asking the wrong question. Famous Sherlock Holmes quote. "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever else is left, no matter how improbable, is the truth."

Consider all of the people who have been freed from death row due to DNA evidence. The DNA evidence shows that their conviction was based on an official story that turned out to be impossible. Did the DNA evidence show who the "real killer" was? Not always. So that could lead people with multiple conflicting theories of what really happened. So what?

One impossibility is what happened to the steel from the collapse of the towers. One independent researcher proved that this simply couldn't happen from the type of fires reported, especially with regards to WTC 7. He also shows that what happened to the steel could be replicated using thermite and that thermite is capable of cutting both horizontal and vertical beams and explosively blowing out steel rivets such that "dust puffs" of the type seen during the collapse can be created. I keep these experiments in my signature so that people like you can be informed.....if that's what you want to be.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?272532-9-11-Experiments-The-Great-Thermate-Debate&p=3026993

[otherone]

You are asking the wrong question. Famous Sherlock Holmes quote. "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever else is left, no matter how improbable, is the truth."



Agreed.
The real questions are "who benefited from the event?" and "what data was permanently lost from the pentagon and buildings in NYC?"
We can work backwards from there.

[libertygrl]

The US needs to dump Israel in the worst kind of way then follow Bolivia's lead, and reclassify it as a terrorist state.

Won't happen any time soon. There was a coup after 9-11. The State Dept., Defense Dept., Pentagon, etc., are all run by Zionists. They are in complete control.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhS6B9U13aY

[acptulsa]

Agreed.
The real questions are "who benefited from the event?" and "what data was permanently lost from the pentagon and buildings in NYC?"
We can work backwards from there.

Don't forget the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, which like WTC7 (the one which was not hit by an airplane and was shielded from the bulk of the falling debris by WTC6, and which fell even though WTC6 didn't) just happened to be a repository of federal trial evidence.

[James_Madison_Lives]

The steel sections of the building weakened and collapsed due to the heat of the fire? I'd heard that wasn't possible.


Was this building supported by a distributed series of vertical supports and a stiff outer skin?


Is there a reason that you chose that view of the building rather than something like this?

http://www.iklimnet.com/hotelfires/imagesfire/slide0008_image013.jpg

Um, that building is still standing. Was even of weaker construction than the towers.

[TheCount]

Was even of entirely different construction than the towers.

Fixed.

[unknown]

https://i.postimg.cc/tR2Kr03w/world.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Snowball]

Does controlled demolition cause the building to fall at free fall speed?


Don't forget the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, which like WTC7 (the one which was not hit by an airplane and was shielded from the bulk of the falling debris by WTC6, and which fell even though WTC6 didn't) just happened to be a repository of federal trial evidence.

Building 7 also housed Giuliani's Emergency Command Center, on the 23rd Floor. It was devised as an anti-terrorism surveillance hub.
https://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/background/wtc7.html

All the best video and electronic and recorded information was taken down when they destroyed Bulding 7.
It is highly likely that some of the operations that carried out the events were manged from this command centre.


We all know Larry Silverstein had become "owner" of the building, and that he said the decision was made to "pull it", but what most don't know is that Larry was only a placeholder for Blackstone. Blackstone was led by its founder, Peterson (real name Petropoulos), who also was Chairman of Lehman Bros, and the sitting Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). Blackstone wrote the mortgage on Building 7 to Silverstein, and was the primary beneficiary of the insurance policy.

The link above has some structural info on how Building 7 was redone to build the Command Centre and its properties. Like the WTC, it was rigged with nuclear mini-bombs while Securacom (changed its name to Stratesec) were running security. Notice how Marvin Bush was on the bod and Wirt Walker who is a cousin of both the Bushes and Roosevelts started the co.
WTC was actually "attacked" before the towers. Both Barry Jennings, deputy of the centre, and another witness say that explosions in the lobby occurred, (to keep the public out). He was RIP'd.
https://www.wikispooks.com/wiki/Barry_Jennings
https://911truth.org/stratesec-walker-secret-business/
http://911blogger.com/news/2010-09-03/history-wirt-dexter-walker-russell-company-cia-and-911?fbclid=IwAR3X1Mu9XqD_kP1NEwG_o1arhJgP4ALVFQbSs xDO0moOu5_6Oncd2kxoeuI

[acptulsa]

https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/alexa-whats-the-melting-point-of-steel-and-whats-the-combustion-temperature-of-jet-fuel-9-11-conspiracy-theory-comic.jpg

[acptulsa]

https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/how-much-proof-do-you-need-to-admit-9-11-was-an-inside-job-magically-appearing-passports-magically-colapsing-buildings-magically-disappearing-planes-magical-diagonally-cut-support-beams.jpg