Police brutality against 13 year olds caught on tape

[literatim]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6AYVn2yw4

Officer's name is Joey Williams

Hot Springs Police Department
Phone: (501) 321-6789
Fax: (501) 321-6708

Hot Springs Chamber of Commerce
Phone: 501-624-6807 & (501) 321-1700
Email: dave(at)hotspringschamber(dot)com

http://www.cityhs.net/about-hs-elected-officials.html

[Give me liberty]

Crazy :(

Whats wrong with skateboarding?
I dont think i have ever seen a law been against skateboarding.

[SeanEdwards]

Skateboarding is prohibited in many public areas because too many stupid children broke their ass on some random businesses property and then their parents sued the business for allowing their stupid children to skateboard there.

That video was lame. I wanted to see the cop use some pepper spray or a baton on those kids. LOL.

[torchbearer]

I just faxed the fascist. black background. white letters.

[torchbearer]

my fax failed. did anyone have this problem?

[BravoSix]

Here's my take.

And in the interest of full disclosure, let me say: I am a recently separated-from-employemnt police officer. It's a long story, but basically I left one position as a police officer in the northeast for a position elsewhere. Unfortunately, the second position didn't work out and I'm in the process of getting back into the profession.

The video does a piss poor job of documenting the totality of the circumstances. I would suspect there was some creative editing. I sincerely doubt that the underlying cause of the arrests were simply skateboarding. In fact, if you listen closely, the arrest was for fleeing when the first kid was told to stop for violating the city ordinance. Ordinance violations would rarely result in a physical arrest in and of itself.

Let us, for the moment, assume that the underlying cause for the arrest was legitimate, and focus on the tactics of the officers. I see nothing wrong up until the point at which he grabs the girl, who also attempts to flee when told she was going to be detained (admittedly, I have a hard time making out the audio at this point, so I don't know what exactly is said, but the officer seems to be ordering them towards the wall or something).

The officer quickly grabs the girl with an arm around the neck. Now, that is a poor tactic regardless. It affords little or no control. I think the officer should have immediately transitioned to a more effective measure which would have prevented the appearance that he was choking her.

As for the second guy - the one that tried to body slam the officer or something (I'm not sure what the purpose of that move was) in order to interfere wth the arrest, I would have likely punched him. For whatever reason, the officer grabbed that guy around the neck too.....again, a wholly useless move that accomplishes little more than looking worse than it it.

With all that said, I disagree with the very idea of the ordinance. However, I completely agree with the arrest of these people for fleeing the police. The difference between me and that officer is that I don't take my job so personal.

[torchbearer]

Here's my take.

And in the interest of full disclosure, let me say: I am a recently separated-from-employemnt police officer. It's a long story, but basically I left one position as a police officer in the northeast for a position elsewhere. Unfortunately, the second position didn't work out and I'm in the process of getting back into the profession.

The video does a piss poor job of documenting the totality of the circumstances. I would suspect there was some creative editing. I sincerely doubt that the underlying cause of the arrests were simply skateboarding. In fact, if you listen closely, the arrest was for fleeing when the first kid was told to stop for violating the city ordinance. Ordinance violations would rarely result in a physical arrest in and of itself.

Let us, for the moment, assume that the underlying cause for the arrest was legitimate, and focus on the tactics of the officers. I see nothing wrong up until the point at which he grabs the girl, who also attempts to flee when told she was going to be detained (admittedly, I have a hard time making out the audio at this point, so I don't know what exactly is said, but the officer seems to be ordering them towards the wall or something).

The officer quickly grabs the girl with an arm around the neck. Now, that is a poor tactic regardless. It affords little or no control. I think the officer should have immediately transitioned to a more effective measure which would have prevented the appearance that he was choking her.

As for the second guy - the one that tried to body slam the officer or something (I'm not sure what the purpose of that move was) in order to interfere wth the arrest, I would have likely punched him. For whatever reason, the officer grabbed that guy around the neck too.....again, a wholly useless move that accomplishes little more than looking worse than it it.

With all that said, I disagree with the very idea of the ordinance. However, I completely agree with the arrest of these people for fleeing the police. The difference between me and that officer is that I don't take my job so personal.

Educating law enforcement. Victimless crimes turn police officers into the enemy of the people. Who was the victim in this "crime". who was seeking the police to justify a violation of their rights? who in this video was seeing the police as heroes?
Victimless crimes turn cops into the enemy of the people. Not law enforcements fault. legislators create this environment.
What the hell is happening to the land of the free?

[torchbearer]

fax finally went through. email bounced back.

[torchbearer]

has anyone sent this video to a major news outlet?

[BravoSix]

Torchbearer, I agree with your points. I am Libertarian in much of my views, and believe that the police should take a smaller roll in law enforcement. That is, I think the large majority of common law is morally enforced (murder, rape, burglary, robbery, etc). The laws that protect your rights from infringement by others.

I do not think that the police should enforce such "victimless" laws. Yet, I don;t think that is the purpose of those spreading this video on the net, those writing, faxing, or calling the PD, etc. In fact, the title of this thread is "Police brutality...." It has nothing to do with an unjust law.

I was commenting on the issue of the manner in which the officer acted. I think he showed his ass. I think he went a bit nuts about a very minor issue. I do not think it rises to the level of brutality. I think the kids were out of line for running in the first place and physically interferring in the arrests. I think the officer was out of line for the unprofessional manner in which he acted.

I have been in similar situations. I have made unpopular arrests surrounded by a crowd of people vocally protesting my actions. I couldn't care less. The ight thing to do is not always the popular thing to do. However, it seems that the officer in this case decided to pursue prosecution against the female because she was voicing her displeasure....something I never felt the need to do.

I think the officer was unprofessional, acted emotionally to a charged situation, and took the kids' actions as a personal insult. For that, he was wrong. I still don't believe it rises to the status of brutality. To claim such, detracts from the times when a real "bad apple" is in our midst and commits true brutality against the citizenry.

Oh, and I also think those of you throwing around the term "facist" lack the ability to present a reasoned argument, and are also showing your ass.

[RP08]

When I was a skater many years ago this kind of treatment (and worse) was commonplace and without cause or explaination. Some times we couldn't go a whole day without an unprovoked roughing-up.

The cops would nearly always hassle kids who are just having fun and keeping to themselves. The cops ALWAYS were hoping someone would jerk their arm out of their clutches or give them a reason to say they saw them reaching in their pockets. Then it was hell to pay for that kid and pretty much guaranteed for his friends too, if they stuck around.

Of the hundreds of encounters we've had to that degree I can only remember maybe a handful of occasions where the cop(s) acknowledged our presence and either greeted us politely, or just kept moving along. Those were the exception encounters, NOT the rule, and believe me, it was so rare yet appreciated that I'd not forget.

It is my opinion that we, and every other skater I've ever known, gets roughed up from time to time, for the cops to get their little endorphine-boosting power-trip by way of someone they can say is "of suspicion" without putting themselves in actual danger against someone who potentially may have a weapon or act out violently (the real criminals).

When I see that video I just get a chuckle because it was always like that (and worse) for us, and yes, often the guys would run or "resist" because it was just about allways bul1sh!t accusations anyway and both us and the cops were keenly aware of that fact.

[torchbearer]

Torchbearer, I agree with your points. I am Libertarian in much of my views, and believe that the police should take a smaller roll in law enforcement. That is, I think the large majority of common law is morally enforced (murder, rape, burglary, robbery, etc). The laws that protect your rights from infringement by others.

I do not think that the police should enforce such "victimless" laws. Yet, I don;t think that is the purpose of those spreading this video on the net, those writing, faxing, or calling the PD, etc. In fact, the title of this thread is "Police brutality...." It has nothing to do with an unjust law.

I was commenting on the issue of the manner in which the officer acted. I think he showed his ass. I think he went a bit nuts about a very minor issue. I do not think it rises to the level of brutality. I think the kids were out of line for running in the first place and physically interferring in the arrests. I think the officer was out of line for the unprofessional manner in which he acted.

I have been in similar situations. I have made unpopular arrests surrounded by a crowd of people vocally protesting my actions. I couldn't care less. The ight thing to do is not always the popular thing to do. However, it seems that the officer in this case decided to pursue prosecution against the female because she was voicing her displeasure....something I never felt the need to do.

I think the officer was unprofessional, acted emotionally to a charged situation, and took the kids' actions as a personal insult. For that, he was wrong. I still don't believe it rises to the status of brutality. To claim such, detracts from the times when a real "bad apple" is in our midst and commits true brutality against the citizenry.

Oh, and I also think those of you throwing around the term "facist" lack the ability to present a reasoned argument, and are also showing your ass.

I associate a police state mentality with fascism... most notable. nazi germany. when police are beating down kids over skateboarding... kinda brings me visuals of a nazi like state.

[BravoSix]

Oh, my mistake....I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the post immediately preceeding mine. I hadn't realized that you used the term also. Sorry 'bout that.

[RP08]

With my previous post, please keep in mind that we were "skater punkers" through the 80's and 90's and expected to be misunderstood and labeled "misfits". It was part of the game, which is why we can laugh about it now.

The kids in that video looked pretty clean cut and "normal", but that kind of treatment from the police still doesn't seem all that surprising to me... WRONG!, certainly... but not all that surprising. Just an opinion.

[maggiebott]

You should be apologizing for even trying to make this cop sound legitimate!

Every cop I've ever run into is a worthless piece of shite who thinks laws are only for others. I paid fines because of skateboarding, they conviscated the board and I laid into that fucking cop who obviously have nothing better to do but pick on helpless kids.

There certainly wasn't any real crime in my town. The new keystone kop they hired had three accidents in two months which were all his fault. They kept the useless fat arse idiot anyway.


We have so many stupid laws now that in New Jersey you can be arrested for driving and smoking with a kid in the car. But the governer and the cops can drive 91 mph on their highways. Guess power and money do all the talking.

[torchbearer]

You should be apologizing for even trying to make this cop sound legitimate!

Every cop I've ever run into is a worthless piece of shite who thinks laws are only for others. I paid fines because of skateboarding, they conviscated the board and I laid into that fucking cop who obviously have nothing better to do but pick on helpless kids.

There certainly wasn't any real crime in my town. The new keystone kop they hired had three accidents in two months which were all his fault. They kept the useless fat arse idiot anyway.


We have so many stupid laws now that in New Jersey you can be arrested for driving and smoking with a kid in the car. But the governer and the cops can drive 91 mph on their highways. Guess power and money do all the talking.

Perfect example of what i was stating in a previous post. The laws themselves turn the cops into the enemy. I don't think that cops are born evil... i think the laws they are forced to enforce turn them into the enemies. We should focus our disdain toward the lawmakers that pit us peasant folk against each other... this is so much like the fuedal system. We even call our Shire Reeve. Sheriff.
a lil' history ed. for those that didn't know.

[angelatc]

has anyone sent this video to a major news outlet?

One of the comments says that a newspaper is reporting that the officer is on leave pending an investigation.

If he gets fired he can probably qualify for a job as a Julie Annie goon.

What happened to the good old days when the cops would have just grabbed the board then told you your parents would have to come retrieve them?

[BravoSix]

Maggiebott, please. I have no issue objectively discussing an issue with those of differing viewpoints, but so far all you have done is reacted irrationally, called names, and have failed to present anything even resembling a reasoned argument.

If anyone should apologize, it is you for the childish manner in which you act. In acting in such a way, you insult the intelligence of the membership on this forum.

I am not trying to legitimize the wrongdoings of this officer. On the contrary, I have given an honest account of what I see on the video as well as my opinions regarding it. You have done nothing but show your anti-police bias.

This incident has nothing to do with your hometown police department. I'm not wuite sure why you feel that it is relevant to this discussion.

I have many many, many, many more stupid, ignorant, assinine private citizens than I have met cops that fit that description. I don't however go about spouting filth about how every private citizen is a "worthless piece of shite who thinks laws are only for others".

You are showing your ass, so to speak. I respectfully request that if you cannot speak to me with the decency and respect I have afforded you that you please refrain from addressing me in your posts.

[torchbearer]

bump

[torchbearer]

be sure to contact these bozos and let them know americans don't approve of this behavior.

[torchbearer]

bump for tonight's viewers.

[Man from La Mancha]

What would the proper police response be, considering the "law" was broken. Should the cop just issue a ticket and take the board? What if the youth resists his board being taken? What if he curses the cop?

[cujothekitten]

I just edited the first post with all the contact information. If you want to repost the police stations fax and phone numbers feel free to do so. I wasn't sure if these were personal numbers or not and acted kind of quickly.

I think this is pretty horrible treatment for a cop and he should be reprimanded.

[torchbearer]

Hot Springs Chamber of Commerce

Phone: 501-624-6807 & (501) 321-1700
Email: dave(at)hotspringschamber(dot)com

Hot Springs, Arkansas Police Department

501.321.6789
501.321.6740
Email: bsouthard(at)cityhs(dot)net **SHUT DOWN!

[ShaneC]

What would the proper police response be, considering the "law" was broken. Should the cop just issue a ticket and take the board? What if the youth resists his board being taken? What if he curses the cop?


Ticket - yes.

Taken the board - maybe.

Cursing? - So what! That's a moral issue, and I see no reason for moral choices to be determined in a court of law.

I personally feel the officer was out of line and used excessive force for the "crimes" that were committed by those teens. I can see the editing done in the video. I don't know what happened during the cuts. I could be wrong, but i'm 99% sure that I'm right. The cop took things too far, based on what we see. The kids did break the law, (a B.S. Law, IMHO) but honestly, was that any worse than speeding in a residential area?