The end of commercial fishing in New England

[Anti Federalist]

Regulation without Representation.

Nobody voted on this.

No congressional debate was ever held.

No elected "leader" is accountable.

By the stroke of one pencil neck's pen, ten thousand men lose their jobs.

And if a single one of them dare defied this order, they would quickly learn why NOAA has a SWAT team.

Fuck You, that's why. Now, take your welfare and move along.



New England coastal communities threatened by feds' ban on cod fishing

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/11/12/noaa-puts-ban-on-cod-fishing-hurts-family-businesses-and-coastal-communities/?intcmp=trending

WASHINGTON – Federal regulators slapped a six-month ban on most cod fishing off New England this week and are threatening to cut next year’s catch by up to 75 percent, in a move some say will destroy the livelihoods of fishermen across the region.

Starting Thursday, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is shutting down cod fishing from Provincetown, Mass., to the Canadian border, as part of a plan to reverse dwindling numbers of cod in the Gulf of Maine. That means no fishermen may trawl in NOAA-designated areas until April 30, 2015.
This comes on top of prior efforts by the U.S. and Canadian governments to restrict cod fishing in the nearby Georges Bank.

NOAA announced several measures, including the ban which expands no-fishing zones, on Monday. But fishermen whose livelihoods rely on catching cod, as well as the coastal communities that depend on money coming in from that industry, worry the new regulations will devastate them.

“It’s all over! I’m done,” Gloucester-area fisherman Joe Orlando told Boston’s Fox 25. “My grandfather’s done it, my father’s done it. I brought my kids into doing it.”

Orlando, whose family has been in the business for 40 years, is used to catching 700 to 2,500 pounds per day, he told Fox 25. But with NOAA’s no-fishing zones, coupled with limits on hauls, Orlando says his boat is now too small to make it into the allowable fishing zones which are farther offshore.

"And now I'm left with nothing. I just threw it all away," Orlando, who makes close to $150,000 per year from cod, said.

Regulators had already cut the 2013 catch limits of cod by 77 percent from the year before to 1,550 metric tons.

NOAA believes cod have been over-fished and the number of cod stocks have dried up. The scientists believe the best shot they have of avoiding a population collapse altogether is enforcing a ban.

Cod levels have dipped significantly for more than 20 years. Despite plans to rebuild the fish population in the Northeast, cod have failed to rebound and scientists don’t seem to know why.

“This is a stock that is in free fall,” NOAA regional administrator John Bullard told National Public Radio. He added that the numbers were the worst the agency has seen in four decades.

There are two types of cod that come from the U.S. -- Atlantic and Pacific cod. The new regulations apply only to the Atlantic kind, in the Gulf of Maine.

Atlantic cod generally is more abundant, and it's unclear whether the federal restrictions would result in prices rising -- or whether Pacific cod would simply take its place in some areas. (In most places, Pacific cod -- a larger fish that produces meatier fillets -- is slightly cheaper than Atlantic cod, which is smaller and sweeter-tasting) The U.S. also imports cod from countries like China, Russia and Iceland.

The U.S. also is a major cod supplier on the world market, providing more than two-thirds of the world's Pacific cod.

There have been sweeping fluctuations in cod stocks, and federal regulations for fishing them, for decades. NOAA officials, in response to industry concerns, last year tried to cushion the financial blow to fishermen by increasing the quota for haddock. Congress this year also approved more than $33 million in aid for the fishing industry in New England.

[invisible]

Well, they had to do something to increase demand for contaminated seafood from the Gulf Of Mexico.

[Anti Federalist]

Regulation without Representation.

Nobody voted on this.

No congressional debate was ever held.

No elected "leader" is accountable.

By the stroke of one pencil neck's pen, ten thousand men lose their jobs.

And if a single one of them dare defied this order, they would quickly learn why NOAA has a SWAT team.

Fuck You, that's why. Now, take your welfare and move along.



New England coastal communities threatened by feds' ban on cod fishing

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/11/12/noaa-puts-ban-on-cod-fishing-hurts-family-businesses-and-coastal-communities/?intcmp=trending

WASHINGTON – Federal regulators slapped a six-month ban on most cod fishing off New England this week and are threatening to cut next year’s catch by up to 75 percent, in a move some say will destroy the livelihoods of fishermen across the region.

Starting Thursday, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is shutting down cod fishing from Provincetown, Mass., to the Canadian border, as part of a plan to reverse dwindling numbers of cod in the Gulf of Maine. That means no fishermen may trawl in NOAA-designated areas until April 30, 2015.
This comes on top of prior efforts by the U.S. and Canadian governments to restrict cod fishing in the nearby Georges Bank.

NOAA announced several measures, including the ban which expands no-fishing zones, on Monday. But fishermen whose livelihoods rely on catching cod, as well as the coastal communities that depend on money coming in from that industry, worry the new regulations will devastate them.

“It’s all over! I’m done,” Gloucester-area fisherman Joe Orlando told Boston’s Fox 25. “My grandfather’s done it, my father’s done it. I brought my kids into doing it.”

Orlando, whose family has been in the business for 40 years, is used to catching 700 to 2,500 pounds per day, he told Fox 25. But with NOAA’s no-fishing zones, coupled with limits on hauls, Orlando says his boat is now too small to make it into the allowable fishing zones which are farther offshore.

"And now I'm left with nothing. I just threw it all away," Orlando, who makes close to $150,000 per year from cod, said.

Regulators had already cut the 2013 catch limits of cod by 77 percent from the year before to 1,550 metric tons.

NOAA believes cod have been over-fished and the number of cod stocks have dried up. The scientists believe the best shot they have of avoiding a population collapse altogether is enforcing a ban.

Cod levels have dipped significantly for more than 20 years. Despite plans to rebuild the fish population in the Northeast, cod have failed to rebound and scientists don’t seem to know why.

“This is a stock that is in free fall,” NOAA regional administrator John Bullard told National Public Radio. He added that the numbers were the worst the agency has seen in four decades.

There are two types of cod that come from the U.S. -- Atlantic and Pacific cod. The new regulations apply only to the Atlantic kind, in the Gulf of Maine.

Atlantic cod generally is more abundant, and it's unclear whether the federal restrictions would result in prices rising -- or whether Pacific cod would simply take its place in some areas. (In most places, Pacific cod -- a larger fish that produces meatier fillets -- is slightly cheaper than Atlantic cod, which is smaller and sweeter-tasting) The U.S. also imports cod from countries like China, Russia and Iceland.

The U.S. also is a major cod supplier on the world market, providing more than two-thirds of the world's Pacific cod.

There have been sweeping fluctuations in cod stocks, and federal regulations for fishing them, for decades. NOAA officials, in response to industry concerns, last year tried to cushion the financial blow to fishermen by increasing the quota for haddock. Congress this year also approved more than $33 million in aid for the fishing industry in New England.

[Danke]

I loathe to think of even more sailor with too much time on their hands...

[Dr.3D]

I don't get it.

Are these not the same article?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?462938-The-end-of-commercial-fishing-in-New-England

[donnay]

Well, they had to do something to increase demand for contaminated seafood from the Gulf Of Mexico.

Or the radioactive fish from the Pacific.

[phill4paul]

Then every fisherman needs to get together, arm themselves and just go do it. As an armada. I'll crew on a ship that would do that (even though I don't know jack-shit about cod-fishing). I'm a quick learn and I've got sea legs. As a bonus I will bring my arms and defend the vessel against all enemies domestic.

[Anti Federalist]

Then every fisherman needs to get together, arm themselves and just go do it. As an armada. I'll crew on a ship that would do that (even though I don't know jack-shit about cod-fishing). I'm a quick learn and I've got sea legs. As a bonus I will bring my arms and defend the vessel against all enemies domestic.

They did this in Canada for fuck's sake.

Bundy Ranch of the sea.

I know I'd do it, I already have gotten my head thumped protesting this shit, that has been going on for thirty years.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't get it.

Are these not the same article?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?462938-The-end-of-commercial-fishing-in-New-England

Yes, they are, I had two windows open and was deciding on which headline to use and a sat glitch decided both were going to get posted.

And now it's too late to delete or change one.

Mods, merge please.

Thanks

[Natural Citizen]

I already have gotten my head thumped protesting this shit, that has been going on for thirty years.

Yeah? Hm. No shit.

[Anti Federalist]

Yeah? Hm. No shit.

Yeah, back in the 80s, at a protest over new restrictions by the Mid Atlantic Fisheries Council in New Jersey.

Got roughed up by the asshole cops for not having a "permit" to exercise our First Amendment rights at the state house.

[Natural Citizen]

Yeah, back in the 80s, at a protest over new restrictions by the Mid Atlantic Fisheries Council in New Jersey.

Got roughed up by the asshole cops for not having a "permit" to exercise our First Amendment rights at the state house.

You know, I often wonder what a lot of the younger folks would do if they actually experienced the 80's and activism the way that it went down back then. It was much, much different and there was nobody out there jotting all of that down. It was rough, for sure. Going home with lumps was normal. With the www the way it is today I don't know that many understand the luxuries they have. And then we seem to want to fudge it all up with memes and whatnot. Scwewy...

I should probably clarify and acknowledge that they do go through it, I suppose. I think that the personable nature of it has diminished. If that makes sense.

Kind of like this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_u3YRZb74w

I suppose you know what came next. Heh...

[phill4paul]

They did this in Canada for fuck's sake.

Bundy Ranch of the sea.
ging and a cut.
I know I'd do it, I already have gotten my head thumped protesting this shit, that has been going on for thirty years.

If you know of any Captain's that are in for this than P.M. or call me. I'll work for food, lodging and a cut. I won't subjugate myself to getting licensed and tagged but that's kinda the purpose of this expedition. I'd like for some RPF's to maybe throw in some bucks or throw themselves aboard so we can have several cameras streaming. Be better than any "Deadliest Catch" episode ever produced.
I don't even like cod. But, I'd be all in.

[Anti Federalist]

If you know of any Captain's that are in for this than P.M. or call me. I'll work for food, lodging and a cut. I won't subjugate myself to getting licensed and tagged but that's kinda the purpose of this expedition. I'd like for some RPF's to maybe throw in some bucks or throw themselves aboard so we can have several cameras streaming. Be better than any "Deadliest Catch" episode ever produced.
I don't even like cod. But, I'd be all in.

I'll keep an eye on this and see if something stirs up.

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm up for another float if we can make a difference with it. I'll even bring my own steel copper brass and lead. :D

[GunnyFreedom]

(or even sans precious metals if we are going for PR)

[phill4paul]

I'll keep an eye on this and see if something stirs up.

Please do.

[Anti Federalist]

You know, I often wonder what a lot of the younger folks would do if they actually experienced the 80's and activism the way that it went down back then. It was much, much different and there was nobody out there jotting all of that down. It was rough, for sure. Going home with lumps was normal. With the www the way it is today I don't know that many understand the luxuries they have. And then we seem to want to fudge it all up with memes and whatnot. Scwewy...

I should probably clarify and acknowledge that they do go through it, I suppose. I think that the personable nature of it has diminished. If that makes sense.

Kind of like this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_u3YRZb74w

I suppose you know what came next. Heh...

As bad as getting shoved around and the random nightstick blow was, today, they'd just roll out in the APC shove some automatic rifles in your face and gas you.

[phill4paul]

I'm up for another float if we can make a difference with it. I'll even bring my own steel copper brass and lead. :D

AF, Gunny and me. Heh! I'm fuggin' in just to be in their presence for such a historic occasion.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsWt0PNaoTiTuLwy19MdZ3nXfQRlbXR PGGwRkIqaUn6HUrZSgX

[Natural Citizen]

As bad as getting shoved around and the random nightstick blow was, today, they'd just roll out in the APC shove some automatic rifles in your face and gas you.


Yes, I know. Gone are the days of getting in a good poke to the eye or a bite on the inner thigh while you were getting peppered with the club. I suppose that is what I was trying to say. Ah well...

[Anti Federalist]

Yes, I know. Gone are the days of getting in a good poke to the eye or a bite on the inner thigh while you were getting peppered with the club. I suppose that is what I was trying to say. Ah well...

It's a real gamble, the cops are unhinged, but cowards, mostly.

So you never know if you'll back them off, like Bundy Ranch, reach a status quo ante like Ferguson, or if they'll just go full retard and Waco or Bou Bou you.

[phill4paul]

It's a real gamble, the cops are unhinged, but cowards, mostly.

So you never know if you'll back them off, like Bundy Ranch, reach a status quo ante like Ferguson, or if they'll just go full retard and Waco or Bou Bou you.

Yup. It's about mitigating the outcome. Undaunted will. Live stream cameras. A knowledge of tactics ( we have a member of this board that is intimate with Coast Guard tactics). I'm in for this if you can get the support in the community AF. It only has to start with one to shame the rest into action.

[kahless]

Regulation without Representation.

Nobody voted on this.

No congressional debate was ever held.

No elected "leader" is accountable.

By the stroke of one pencil neck's pen, ten thousand men lose their jobs.

And if a single one of them dare defied this order, they would quickly learn why NOAA has a SWAT team.

^Forgetting this for a second, can you fill us in on the validity of the claims in the quote below?



Cod levels have dipped significantly for more than 20 years. Despite plans to rebuild the fish population in the Northeast, cod have failed to rebound and scientists don’t seem to know why.

“This is a stock that is in free fall,” NOAA regional administrator John Bullard told National Public Radio. He added that the numbers were the worst the agency has seen in four decades.

[oyarde]

I loathe to think of even more sailor with too much time on their hands...

Probably not end well . Pretty hard for a guy to replace 150k per yr . So , if he has one , no house payment , house ins , no boat payment , boat ins , property tax getting pd ......unless everything he owns is pd for , be out on his ass in a matter of months. Then what ?

[Inkblots]

Treating the fisheries as a public commons and then regulating it via quotas that are subject to all kinds of political pressure is madness. Surely there must be some way to privatize the fisheries? If each sea sector were someone's private property, the tragedy of the commons wouldn't be an issue, and fish stocks could be managed without political interference and, yes, Regulation without Representation as Anti-Fed says.

It wouldn't be easy, but I'm sure with careful planning it would be possible.

[scottditzen]

Treating the fisheries as a public commons and then regulating it via quotas that are subject to all kinds of political pressure is madness. Surely there must be some way to privatize the fisheries? If each sea sector were someone's private property, the tragedy of the commons wouldn't be an issue, and fish stocks could be managed without political interference and, yes, Regulation without Representation as Anti-Fed says.

It wouldn't be easy, but I'm sure with careful planning it would be possible.

Privatization could turn into an even worse nightmare. Man, I just don't say any good way to deal with this.

[Pericles]

He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

[Anti Federalist]

^Forgetting this for a second, can you fill us in on the validity of the claims in the quote below?

Taking count of a wild stock biomass is an inexact science, to put it in very mild terms.

A more accurate way is to say it is a WAG, or "wild assed guess". To hear the people in the business, there is more cod than ever, and obviously enough to sustain a commecial fishery. One of the reason that there won't ever be "the last fish caught" scenario, is the fact the cost is too prohibitive to chase a diminishing stock. You reach a point of negative returns (a "broker" trip - where you go out broke and come back broker) before a stock is wiped out.

I recall having a meeting once, back in the 80s, with the director of NMFS, Bill (?) Fox, who looked right across the table a group of us fishermen and flatly stated, "My job is to put half of you guys out of business".

That was an indirect catalyst for the protest that ended up with a bunch of us getting roughed up.

There is nothing to indicate to me that there is any hard science pointing to this decision, that it is much more heavily influenced by that same attitude.

And this is nothing new, there has been, in my lifetime, a well coordinated attack on every "independent" lifestyle or way of living, by government.

Fisherman, rancher, small farmer, indepenent trucker, small business owner...all are "disapproved" in the coming glorious future.

These people are hard to put a thumb on, you see, and must be stamped out, controlled, throttled and regulated...until dead.

Then theye will be coming for everybody else. This is already starting to happen, with "safety inspections" for private homes and apartments, "no refusal" blood draw roadblocks, "tax by mile" monitoring schemes and a host of others just like that.

And that's what people that didn't give a shit what was happening to these people, do not understand.

The precedent for total control and regulation without representation, was set by the tryannical decrees that have throttled the independent spirit in AmeriKa.

[coastie]

Yup. It's about mitigating the outcome. Undaunted will. Live stream cameras. A knowledge of tactics ( we have a member of this board that is intimate with Coast Guard tactics). I'm in for this if you can get the support in the community AF. It only has to start with one to shame the rest into action.

The only way this would work would for it to be overwhelming in numbers.

Always remember this...the NYPD has more members than the US Coast Guard.

Resources are few and far between.

Boarding Teams are usually comprised of 3 to 6 members that are inadequately trained, hate their job and just want to go back to the station and watch tv and play video games till they're off duty. Some stations at the most have 2 fully qualified boarding teams, maybe 3 if they call in the reservists that are actually qualified. Most of them have only one team - barely.

Same thing applies for the ships(cutters)there just isn't a whole lot of LE people on them.

Take their entire fleet, and cut it by at least a 1/3 at any given time due to maintenance and/or dry dock, or just being broken.

There is always a shortage of Law Enforcement types, both in desire to do it, and the lack of qualified people to even do it.

**A large number of reservists are FULL TIME COPS.**Something to keep in mind for obvious reasons.

I would gladly join up...as soon as someone pays up the ~ $25,000 I'll need for the next year's bills. Otherwise, I'll have to pop some popcorn and wish you guys luck.

[tod evans]

And this is nothing new, there has been, in my lifetime, a well coordinated attack on every "independent" lifestyle or way of living, by government.

Fisherman, rancher, small farmer, indepenent trucker, small business owner...all are "disapproved" in the coming glorious future.

These people are hard to put a thumb on, you see, and must be stamped out, controlled, throttled and regulated...until dead.

Then theye will be coming for everybody else. This is already starting to happen, with "safety inspections" for private homes and apartments, "no refusal" blood draw roadblocks, "tax by mile" monitoring schemes and a host of others just like that.

And that's what people that didn't give a shit what was happening to these people, do not understand.

The precedent for total control and regulation without representation, was set by the tryannical decrees that have throttled the independent spirit in AmeriKa.

Bears repeating!

[idiom]

The only way this would work would for it to be overwhelming in numbers.

Doesn't matter if the Cod are all dead.

Better off putting some effort into intense research into what's gone wrong.

[tod evans]

Cod food.....:cool:

3381

[CaptUSA]

Treating the fisheries as a public commons and then regulating it via quotas that are subject to all kinds of political pressure is madness. Surely there must be some way to privatize the fisheries? If each sea sector were someone's private property, the tragedy of the commons wouldn't be an issue, and fish stocks could be managed without political interference and, yes, Regulation without Representation as Anti-Fed says.

It wouldn't be easy, but I'm sure with careful planning it would be possible.

I agree. It seems that with GPS technology, we'd be able to sell off large sections of the waters to private ownership. I see no reason why it has to be different than land.
You could still have international seaways where ship traffic could travel while ensuring the private property rights of others' sea ownership. I know I'd take pretty good care of my section of the ocean if it meant more profitable sea life would migrate there.

[tod evans]

I agree. It seems that with GPS technology, we'd be able to sell off large sections of the waters to private ownership. I see no reason why it has to be different than land.
You could still have international seaways where ship traffic could travel while ensuring the private property rights of others' sea ownership. I know I'd take pretty good care of my section of the ocean if it meant more profitable sea life would migrate there.

I'm dead set against this idea!

All I see is a more intrusive government trying to manage it.

Not even discussing the men and women who have spent decades learning to fish open waters effectively....

[XNavyNuke]

Privatization could turn into an even worse nightmare. Man, I just don't say any good way to deal with this.

As the yield of cod becomes lower in both size and quality the price will go up to the point that cod aquaculture becomes more profitable. It is already well established in Norway. Our course the environmentalists don't like it either. This is about CONTROL pure and simple.

XNN

Rapid growth in European cod farming prompts fears from green groups (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/jun/22/european-cod-farming-norway)


Norway, which accounts for around 80% of the world's farmed cod production, increased its national production by 59% from 10,375 tonnes in 2007 to 16,523 tonnes in 2008. The figures, from the country's Directorate of Fisheries confirm the rapid growth in the cod farming industry, but they have prompted fears from green groups that the expansion will lead to more escapes from farms and contamination of the gene pool of wild populations.

"We are very concerned at the current levels of cod farming," said Nina Jensen, head of conservation at WWF Norway. "No environmental impact studies of cod farms have been done, there are no restrictions on location, there are no restrictions on the protection of spawning grounds and there are lots of fish that escape."

[Anti Federalist]

You could still have international seaways where ship traffic could travel while ensuring the private property rights of others' sea ownership. I know I'd take pretty good care of my section of the ocean if it meant more profitable sea life would migrate there.

And this wouldn't be an issue at all.

Surface vessel traffic, no matter how large, has no real impact on fish stocks.

The only conflict would be between fishing vessels and ships, but this is already well mitigated by centuries old "rules of the road" to avoid collisions and modern navigation equipment.

[CaptUSA]

And this wouldn't be an issue at all.

Surface vessel traffic, no matter how large, has no real impact on fish stocks.

The only conflict would be between fishing vessels and ships, but this is already well mitigated by centuries old "rules of the road" to avoid collisions and modern navigation equipment.
I was thinking about more of the "Get off my lawn" aspect. If I owned a section of ocean, I wouldn't want someone barging through unannounced and without payment regardless of their intention. It's my water. Doesn't matter if I use it to fish, use it for tidal generation, or sell access to it for travel. Hell, there could be lots of uses and you could make money in several different ways all at the same time. If you spill onto my water - I could sue. It just seems like there could be a new frontier of resource ownership with our GPS technology.

[kahless]

Taking count of a wild stock biomass is an inexact science, to put it in very mild terms.

A more accurate way is to say it is a WAG, or "wild assed guess". To hear the people in the business, there is more cod than ever, and obviously enough to sustain a commecial fishery. One of the reason that there won't ever be "the last fish caught" scenario, is the fact the cost is too prohibitive to chase a diminishing stock. You reach a point of negative returns (a "broker" trip - where you go out broke and come back broker) before a stock is wiped out.

I recall having a meeting once, back in the 80s, with the director of NMFS, Bill (?) Fox, who looked right across the table a group of us fishermen and flatly stated, "My job is to put half of you guys out of business".

That was an indirect catalyst for the protest that ended up with a bunch of us getting roughed up.

There is nothing to indicate to me that there is any hard science pointing to this decision, that it is much more heavily influenced by that same attitude.

And this is nothing new, there has been, in my lifetime, a well coordinated attack on every "independent" lifestyle or way of living, by government.

Fisherman, rancher, small farmer, indepenent trucker, small business owner...all are "disapproved" in the coming glorious future.

These people are hard to put a thumb on, you see, and must be stamped out, controlled, throttled and regulated...until dead.

Then theye will be coming for everybody else. This is already starting to happen, with "safety inspections" for private homes and apartments, "no refusal" blood draw roadblocks, "tax by mile" monitoring schemes and a host of others just like that.

And that's what people that didn't give a shit what was happening to these people, do not understand.

The precedent for total control and regulation without representation, was set by the tryannical decrees that have throttled the independent spirit in AmeriKa.

Sounds like every industry the government has it's hand in. They start by destroying the ability of the small business owner to compete leaving only the large national government approved corporate monopolies that can. I suspect their day will come to since this is just another stepping stone on the long road leading to nationalization of private industries. (if they ever get that far).

[charrob]

Wonder if it has anything to do with this:


Salt-Water Fish Extinction Seen By 2048 (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/salt-water-fish-extinction-seen-by-2048/)


Already, 29% of edible fish and seafood species have declined by 90% -- a drop that means the collapse of these fisheries. ... Worm and colleagues report their findings in the Nov. 3 issue of 'Science'.

[Dianne]

We are definitely going in the direction of the wealthy eating meat and fish, while those not well connected eat GMO cardboard. Feds are killing the cattle industry, seafood industry, fruit and veggies. Look at Michelle O's meals for the school kids... a slathering of boxed mashed potatoes and a Tyson pre-cooked chicken patty with a carton of milk. Do you think her kids eat that.. Do you think that beotch and its' adopted kids would ever touch that?

[green73]

I'm dead set against this idea!

All I see is a more intrusive government trying to manage it.

Not even discussing the men and women who have spent decades learning to fish open waters effectively....

You're dead set against property rights?

[tod evans]

You're dead set against property rights?

Nope, dead set against declaring the ocean divisible into parcels that would constitute taxable property.

[green73]

Nope, dead set against declaring the ocean divisible into parcels that would constitute taxable property.

Well who the hell worth their spit isn't against property taxes?

[phill4paul]

On day 2 I'm still all in AF. If there is an in to be had. Coupla weeks planning and a hell of a strategy could be formed between you Gunny, Coastie and myself.

[pcosmar]

Doesn't matter if the Cod are all dead.

Better off putting some effort into intense research into what's gone wrong.

Intense research?
They know why.. Foreign flagged ships just outside the legal limit,(or undetected within it), not subject to any restrictions.

It has been going on for decades. and it is known. I'm sure it is even in trade deals,, even if not written on paper.

[charrob]

Well, they had to do something to increase demand for contaminated seafood from the Gulf Of Mexico.


The Gulf of Mexico will never be the same. There's an area the size of Rhode Island covered in oil that is completely dead to all of life. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-29/oil-residue-size-rhode-island-covers-gulf-mexico-seafloor-result-macondo-well-disast All one has to do is look at Valdez Alaska to know generations from now that areas of the Gulf of Mexico will still be covered in oil and dead. And the oil is moving to other areas of the Gulf: fishermen off the southwest coast of Florida below Tampa and even fishermen as far away as the Florida Keys have found BP oil in their catches. The Gulf Restoration Network is a small group of volunteers who give of their time and talents and have found over 2.5 million gallons of oil being spilled off Louisiana every single year: and they admit: they only cover a tiny portion of the tens of thousands of oil rigs out there. As they've said: 'if we find this much oil spilling off oil rigs every year in the small areas that we look, just imagine how many gallons of carcinogenic oil are spilling off those oil rigs in its entirety'. Bonny Schumaker is a retired physicist from NASA and she does flyovers of the Gulf and films videos of literally mile after mile after mile after mile of oil sheen sitting on top the Gulf.

Sperm whales in the Gulf were shown to have higher toxins in their blubber than anywhere else on the planet:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geqs50-Cyc0

And, as you stated, what is being caught there is severely deformed -- shrimp with no eyes, fish having several tails... over 50,000 dolphins have died so far and thousands more in Barataria Bay are severely ill and dying slow, painful, deaths with lung disease in addition to other maladies that are consistent with the cancer-causing carcinogenic elements that are found within oil. I've watched videos year after year of mothers trying to prop up their dolphin calves for their first breath of air after birthing them, only to never see their still-born baby awaken. One mother stayed with her baby for over a week trying to push it up to breath, only to finally push it over to a small boat as if to ask the people in the boat to help her. It's heart wrenching what's going on down there. It really is.

Sea monsters and devoured jobs are sinking shrimp harvesters four years after the BP blowout (http://bellona.org/news/fossil-fuels/oil/2014-08-sea-monsters-devoured-jobs-sinking-shrimp-harvesters-four-years-bp-blowout)

[green73]

On day 2 I'm still all in AF. If there is an in to be had. Coupla weeks planning and a hell of a strategy could be formed between you Gunny, Coastie and myself.

You guys are like the baby boomers with a little extra zest. Bless ya. Good luck.

[oyarde]

Well who the hell worth their spit isn't against property taxes?

Nobody .

[oyarde]

He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

Yes

[CaptUSA]

Nope, dead set against declaring the ocean divisible into parcels that would constitute taxable property.

Are you also against dividing land into parcels for private ownership because it ends up being taxed?

[vita3]

Just wondering how overfished the Cod industry really is up there, in comparison to Real cod numbers?

[tod evans]

Are you also against dividing land into parcels for private ownership because it ends up being taxed?

I'm against the taxation of land, I'm also against the separation of mineral rights from land possession, so I could only imagine the bureaucratic hell oceanic division would create.

Government would grow her forces more than double trying to regulate and police private ocean space, look at the lawyers and court cases regarding land.

Theoretically dividing any tangible item into sections for private ownership is logical but given the fluid nature of the ocean the whole endeavor sounds illogical to me.

[GunnyFreedom]

On day 2 I'm still all in AF. If there is an in to be had. Coupla weeks planning and a hell of a strategy could be formed between you Gunny, Coastie and myself.

Same here. Because I'm self employed I can free up whatever schedule we want on a week's notice.

[56ktarget]

Look up tragedy of the commons before posting such nonsense

[acptulsa]

Look up tragedy of the commons before posting such nonsense

Look it up yourself. Then take a good look at the way Obama obeyed his own selfish 'enlightened self interest' when he let BP off the hook for a pittance after their aquatic genocide in the Gulf of Mexico.

[69360]

It's not just cod. There was no shrimp season this year at all and they cut the elver limit way down. Shrimp isn't really that profitable, but elvers were the second most profitable fishery here after lobster.

[Anti Federalist]

It's not just cod. There was no shrimp season this year at all and they cut the elver limit way down. Shrimp isn't really that profitable, but elvers were the second most profitable fishery here after lobster.

What right do some nebulous "they" have to just bankrupt families and put people out of business at the stroke of a pen?

Regulation without Representation.

[Anti Federalist]

The Gulf of Mexico will never be the same. There's an area the size of Rhode Island covered in oil that is completely dead to all of life. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-29/oil-residue-size-rhode-island-covers-gulf-mexico-seafloor-result-macondo-well-disast All one has to do is look at Valdez Alaska to know generations from now that areas of the Gulf of Mexico will still be covered in oil and dead. And the oil is moving to other areas of the Gulf: fishermen off the southwest coast of Florida below Tampa and even fishermen as far away as the Florida Keys have found BP oil in their catches. The Gulf Restoration Network is a small group of volunteers who give of their time and talents and have found over 2.5 million gallons of oil being spilled off Louisiana every single year: and they admit: they only cover a tiny portion of the tens of thousands of oil rigs out there. As they've said: 'if we find this much oil spilling off oil rigs every year in the small areas that we look, just imagine how many gallons of carcinogenic oil are spilling off those oil rigs in its entirety'. Bonny Schumaker is a retired physicist from NASA and she does flyovers of the Gulf and films videos of literally mile after mile after mile after mile of oil sheen sitting on top the Gulf.

Sperm whales in the Gulf were shown to have higher toxins in their blubber than anywhere else on the planet:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geqs50-Cyc0

And, as you stated, what is being caught there is severely deformed -- shrimp with no eyes, fish having several tails... over 50,000 dolphins have died so far and thousands more in Barataria Bay are severely ill and dying slow, painful, deaths with lung disease in addition to other maladies that are consistent with the cancer-causing carcinogenic elements that are found within oil. I've watched videos year after year of mothers trying to prop up their dolphin calves for their first breath of air after birthing them, only to never see their still-born baby awaken. One mother stayed with her baby for over a week trying to push it up to breath, only to finally push it over to a small boat as if to ask the people in the boat to help her. It's heart wrenching what's going on down there. It really is.

Sea monsters and devoured jobs are sinking shrimp harvesters four years after the BP blowout (http://bellona.org/news/fossil-fuels/oil/2014-08-sea-monsters-devoured-jobs-sinking-shrimp-harvesters-four-years-bp-blowout)

Trust me.

Not so.