Gov't fines couple for declining to host gay marriage on farm

[green73]

Cynthia and Robert Gifford are caught in a same-sex nightmare. They’ve been forced to defend themselves against claims that they’re lesbian-hating homophobes.

“We respect and care for everyone!’’ Cynthia Gifford told me. “We had an openly gay man working for us this past season,’’ she said.

“We’ve had a woman who’s transitioning to be a man. We don’t discriminate against anyone.’’

But the government of the state of New York sees things differently. The Giffords, who own the bucolic Liberty Ridge Farm in upstate New York, were ordered to pay a total of $13,000 — a $10,000 fine to the state and another $1,500 to each member of a lesbian couple to compensate them for “mental anguish.’’ All because the Giffords, devout Christians, refused to hold a same-sex wedding ceremony on the property on which they live, work and have raised a daughter, 17, and a son, 21.

cont.
http://nypost.com/2014/11/10/couple-fined-for-refusing-to-host-same-sex-wedding-on-their-farm/

[oyarde]

I will not be hosting any marriages on my farm as well , or paying any fines .

[oyarde]

I do not have any handicapped or pregnancy parking as well , LOL

[jkr]

$10,000 fine to the state

[oyarde]

$10,000 fine to the state

Yes , since the state worked so hard for that money .

[aGameOfThrones]

$10,000 fine to the state

they are the victims(where no real victims are found).

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I think the people being fined were afraid that their real pigs would be eaten by these human pigs.

Pigs will eat just about anything.











https://********************************/2014/11/lesbian_wedding_denied.jpg

[Dr.3D]

$10,000 fine to the state
That's just an excuse to rob those folks. Times are tight and the state is looking for ways to increase revenue.

[jmdrake]

And this is why some of us are against same sex marriage. It's going to end up clashing with religious freedom. Get the state out of marriage. Marriage can be equalized without forcing gay marriage down the throats of people who, rightly or wrongly, don't agree with it.

[EBounding]

It's funny...the same sex couples and activists were never threatened with fines or jail before the definition of State marriage changed. Now they're using the State to punish people who can't accommodate their ceremony.

The genie's out of the bottle though. Even if the govt got out of marriage, couldn't these people still file a complaint to the State for discrimination?

[jmdrake]

It's funny...the same sex couples and activists were never threatened with fines or jail before the definition of State marriage changed. Now they're using the State to punish people who can't accommodate their ceremony.

The genie's out of the bottle though. Even if the govt got out of marriage, couldn't these people still file a complaint to the State for discrimination?

That depends on the law in the particular state. But if the federal government ever weighs in on gay marriage these stupid lawsuits will likely take on a federal connotation. Getting the government out of marriage is a way to deal with the "equality" issue without opening up Pandora's box even further.

[puppetmaster]

What about the farmers mental anguish ? Screw these nasty ass lesbians.

[bunklocoempire]

I would define "mental anguish" as being forced to do something at gunpoint -and not as being denied something that wasn't mine.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

being conditioned to be taught that the government is your god, like in the USSR

[aGameOfThrones]

I would define "mental anguish" as being forced to do something at gunpoint -and not as being denied something that wasn't mine.


I want to go in your house and watch tv, but you won't let me. I got mental anguish now.

[PaulConventionWV]

It's funny...the same sex couples and activists were never threatened with fines or jail before the definition of State marriage changed. Now they're using the State to punish people who can't accommodate their ceremony.

The genie's out of the bottle though. Even if the govt got out of marriage, couldn't these people still file a complaint to the State for discrimination?

That's probably true. Marriage laws really have nothing to do with discrimination laws. They're both wrong, but not letting gay couples get state marriage licenses still wouldn't stop the barrage of anti-discrimination lawsuits and complaints, which the state is bound to act on regardless of marriage "equality."

[PaulConventionWV]

I think the people being fined were afraid that their real pigs would be eaten by these human pigs.

Pigs will eat just about anything.











https://********************************/2014/11/lesbian_wedding_denied.jpg

You can almost tell what a self-absorbed, entitled prick a person is just by looking at them these days.

[presence]

so much for



escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed

[jmdrake]

That's probably true. Marriage laws really have nothing to do with discrimination laws. They're both wrong, but not letting gay couples get state marriage licenses still wouldn't stop the barrage of anti-discrimination lawsuits and complaints, which the state is bound to act on regardless of marriage "equality."

^That is not true. You have to understand the synergy of state action. Read IRS v. Bob Jones University to understand. In that case BJU was stripped of its tax exempt status because it refused to allow interracial dating. Stupid yes. But they should have a right to be stupid. The Supreme Court's holding was that since the executive branch had struck down segregation of the military, the judicial branch had struck down separate but equal, and the legislative branch had enacted the 1964 civil rights act, segregation went against "public policy" and since the tax exempt status was for charities and since charities are supposed to further public policy, BJU should have its tax exempt status revoked.

Now apply that same "logic" to gay marriage. The SCOTUS is a hairs breadth from striking down all laws restricting state recognized marriages to between 1 man and 1 woman. The executive branch has effectively accepted gay marriage by overturning DADT. And recently someone was arguing here at RPF that restricting marriage to a man and a woman is a form of "gender discrimination". Well "gender discrimination" is covered by the 1964 civil rights act. Now granted, that logic was over the top ridiculous, but the SCOTUS has recently had some over the top ridiculous 5-4 decisions. We already have pastors being "legally" pressured to turn over sermons to see if they have "anti-gay" language in them.

Nothing happens in isolation.

[satchelmcqueen]

with respect to freedom of choice and more importantly private property issues, i really hope those two that got (stole) $1500 each use that money to buy the biggest dildo ever made and fuck each other with it until they bleed out. as for the state getting $10000, well they can go fuck themselves to.

[phill4paul]

And this is why some of us are against same sex marriage. It's going to end up clashing with religious freedom. Get the state out of marriage. Marriage can be equalized without forcing gay marriage down the throats of people who, rightly or wrongly, don't agree with it.

If "marriage is one man - one women" proponents spent the amount of time getting government out of marriage as they did keeping gays from marrying it would already be a done deal.

[jmdrake]

If "marriage is one man - one women" proponents spent the amount of time getting government out of marriage as they did keeping gays from marrying it would already be a done deal.

As you well know, the overwhelming majority of Americans on all sides of any issue fully embrace government at all levels. Maybe we could get the "one man - one woman" proponents to see the value of getting the government out of marriage if all libertarians spoke on that as a united front. But instead half (guestimate) fall into the "Well we've got to expand the government role in the meantime to be fair" camp.

Edit: And your argument reminds me of those who say "We need NAFTA for free trade". When others of us say "Managed trade isn't free trade. Get the government out of negotiations of trade between individuals altogether" the response is "But aren't you against protectionism?"

[LibForestPaul]

And this is why some of us are against same sex marriage. It's going to end up clashing with religious freedom. Get the state out of marriage. Marriage can be equalized without forcing gay marriage down the throats of people who, rightly or wrongly, don't agree with it.

All as planned. More faux liberal/conservative paradigms.

[phill4paul]

As you well know, the overwhelming majority of Americans on all sides of any issue fully embrace government at all levels. Maybe we could get the "one man - one woman" proponents to see the value of getting the government out of marriage if all libertarians spoke on that as a united front. But instead half (guestimate) fall into the "Well we've got to expand the government role in the meantime to be fair" camp.

Edit: And your argument reminds me of those who say "We need NAFTA for free trade". When others of us say "Managed trade isn't free trade. Get the government out of negotiations of trade between individuals altogether" the response is "But aren't you against protectionism?"

We've discussed my argument before. You even agreed with it. Basically, since so much law is wrapped up in the marriage laws, then the best proposal would be simply allowing anyone to declare, anyone, a beneficiary with regard to government programs directed at married couples. It could be a brother, mother, brother, sister, best friend, lover. At that point start getting the government out of determining certain benefits provided to "couplings", period.

[bunklocoempire]

I want to go in your house and watch tv, but you won't let me. I got mental anguish now.

Aww shit! Sorry about that. What do I owe you? Your muscle men?

*gets checkbook*

Ya know we really don't even have the most flamboyant of tvs. I wish you would've asked around, maybe next door -they got a nice one they'd be willing to share with you, but hey, it's your choice and your musclemen, and my tv, so here's your check.

[oyarde]

Well , one thing I can say . This has lead to exactly where I knew it would .

[Suzanimal]

NY Court: Farmers to Be Re-Educated, Pay Fines for Not Hosting Homosexual Wedding

(CNSNews.com) – A couple who hosts occasional wedding ceremonies on their New York farm have lost an appeal to overturn the $13,000 in fines levied against them by the state’s human rights agency, which ruled that their refusal to host a wedding for two women was discriminatory.

On Jan. 14, the New York Supreme Court, Appellate Division, Third Department, upheld the agency’s order and the fines, a decision the Alliance Defending Freedom - which represented Robert and Cynthia Gifford - said amounted to confirming, “that the government can punish the Giffords for declining to coordinate a ceremony that conflicts with their conscience.”

The couple lives in a barn they built on their farm and have occasionally hosted weddings on the first floor and the surrounding backyard area, according to ADF.

“After the agency ruled that the Giffords were guilty of ‘sexual orientation discrimination,’ it fined them $10,000, plus $3,000 in damages and ordered them to implement re-education training classes designed to contradict the couple’s religious beliefs about marriage,” a press release issued following the court decision stated.

AD FEEDBACK
In order to comply with the order, the couple will have to attend those “re-training” classes or have a “trainer” come to them, according to ADF.

“All Americans should be free to live and work according to their beliefs, especially in our own backyards,” ADF legal counsel Caleb Dalton, who argued before the court on behalf of the couple in Gifford v. Erwin, said in a statement. “The government went after both this couple’s freedom and their ability to make a living simply for adhering to their faith on their own property.

“The court should have rejected this unwarranted and unconstitutional government intrusion, so we will consult with our client regarding appeal,” Dalton said.

ADF attorneys argued that the First Amendment prohibits the government from forcing a wedding coordinator like Cynthia to plan and participate in a ceremony that violates her faith.

“The appeals court decision, however, sidestepped that argument and is allowing the government coercion to continue,” the ADF press release stated.

ADF explained the background of the case: “On Sept. 25, 2012, Melisa McCarthy called Cynthia Gifford, inquiring about the use of the farm for her upcoming same-sex ceremony. Because of her Christian faith’s teachings on marriage, Cynthia politely told McCarthy that she and her husband don’t host and coordinate same-sex ceremonies but left open an invitation to visit the farm to consider it as a potential reception site. Instead, McCarthy and her partner filed a complaint with the Division of Human Rights.”

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/ny-court-farmers-be-re-educated-pay-13000-fines-not-hosting-homosexual?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=CNS&utm_term=facebook&utm_content=facebook&utm_campaign=n-gay-wedding

[Weston White]

Sexual orientation discrimination versus religious discrimination. The latter is enshrined in the First Amendment and yet gets trumped by the courts, and the former which which skews the XIV Amendment and due process, generally? Also, Obergefell v. Hodges was decided in 2015--compelling all states to acknowledge same sex marriages.

[angelatc]

Re-education camps.

Just wow...

[otherone]

Sexual orientation discrimination versus religious discrimination. The latter is enshrined in the First Amendment and yet gets trumped by the courts, and the former which which skews the XIV Amendment and due process, generally?

Negative Rights are long-dead in Amerika. All Rights are filtered through Leviathan.

[William Tell]

NY Court: Farmers to Be Re-Educated, Pay Fines for Not Hosting Homosexual Wedding http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/ny-court-farmers-be-re-educated-pay-13000-fines-not-hosting-homosexual?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=CNS&utm_term=facebook&utm_content=facebook&utm_campaign=n-gay-wedding


Well , one thing I can say . This has lead to exactly where I knew it would .

Yep. Standing up to the Mob is not safe.

[presence]

The farmer really could have handled this issue by fencing in few hundred hogs in the same field in the week prior to the two lesbo pigs getting hitched.

[Origanalist]

The farmer really could have handled this issue by fencing in few hundred hogs in the same field in the week prior to the two lesbo pigs getting hitched.

They would have been sued for millions in emotional damages. And probably lost their farm. The only freedom left is the freedom to accept whatever you're told to accept.

[kpitcher]

What the couple should actually be trained in is how to run a business. If they don't want to host any event then they should learn how to say no without getting themselves into trouble.

They should be allowed to be bigots on their own property. This just looks like a state funding scam to enforce PC.

Although would they be getting the same sort of news if they refused to host an inter-racial marriage? Not that long ago religion was used as a reason to be against that.

[Anti Federalist]

Re-education camps.

Just wow...

Did any of us doubt, really, that this was where all this nonsense was leading?

And this is just the start...

Arbeit macht frei

[Anti Federalist]

They would have been sued for millions in emotional damages. And probably lost their farm. The only freedom left is the freedom to accept whatever you're told to accept.

You got a problem with this?

Yeah, didn't think so.

Move along now.

[bunklocoempire]

I imagine that some hunted down the line might want to get their "$10,000" worth. All totally preventable.

It's not about money -like rape isn't about sex.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

if you don't put on a dress you're hateful towards trans women

[idiom]

so much for

Lot never did make it to the mountains, He asked God to switch to precision aristrikes. Turns out God can do that.

[GunnyFreedom]

flabbergasted.

"Re-education."

'Murika!