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USAFCapt
11-07-2014, 05:29 PM
Are there any Rand Paul brochures in the making? I loved placing the Ron Paul Super Brochure in plane seatbacks, magazines, and door to door:

http://www.superbrochure.com/images/brochure1_lg.jpg

NY-Dano
11-07-2014, 05:51 PM
If Rand runs, this is best left to the campaign.

The main problem with these is that they cover too many issues. When voters look at something like this they might agree with 80-90% of what is listed but the few things they don't like will keep them from supporting a candidate. This is especially true in a primary where candidates agree on a multitude of issues to begin with... the differences matter even more.

Controlled messaging is key. The campaign would determine the issues important to each voter and engage them on those issues using carefully crafted language. This is best accomplished by an official campaign and not an independent effort.

I am certain the campaign, should it occur, will have ample opportunities for people to get involved... and that will be far more effective than these brochures.

devil21
11-07-2014, 05:57 PM
Oh boy here we go again....

By most accounts, the Ron Paul brochures were a negative.



Controlled messaging is key. The campaign would determine the issues important to each voter and engage them on those issues using carefully crafted language. This is best accomplished by an official campaign and not an independent effort.

There is room for common ground there. If the campaign wants to engage the grassroots (and not run another failed Paul Inc. Production), one of the moves they could make is actually hiring people to work on the campaign that understand the concerns and demographics of their respective regions and produce brochures that address those concerns. That way, there could be well produced and EFFECTIVE brochures created that are designed and sanctioned by the campaign that can engage the grassroots in distribution.

Natural Citizen
11-07-2014, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by NY-Dano

The campaign would determine the issues important to each voter...


Huh? I'm afraid you're going to have to explain this phenomenon to me in a little more detail. I've always thought that the American people sent people to represent their views and/or position on the issues. As well, it is the people who decide the issues if we go by the old of, by and for gag. So maybe my history and working knowledge of the political process for representation is a little different. Can you explain this a little better? I ain't that bright, it seems. Have our political processes for representation been repatriated in some way and I was watching cartoons or something and missed it?

I have to admit that it'll be a heck of an adjustment when I'm talking to the regulars about the way the world works and all of a sudden I have to tell them we can't talk about those things because I have this here peice of paper from a PAC or something telling us that those issues aren't any longer important and that we should just not discuss them because they aren't for us to decide. And then lord knows what the new list will be. Cripes. I like to think that I talk to smart people out in the wild and it'd sure be a problem if I went and insulted their intelligence by telling them that they don't get to decide the issues when it comes to representation and...look...here's this list of issues.."work with it" kind of thing.

Jiminy crickets. I can't believe they went and undid the of, by and for rule. Gosh. I liked that one. Whoda thunkit...pack structure one generation and then PAC structure the next. I can't keep up with this stuff.

NY-Dano
11-07-2014, 06:46 PM
Natural Citizen, I apologize if I wasn't clear and caused some confusion. All I meant was that different people are attracted to the message of liberty for different reasons and sometimes it is best to focus on areas of agreement than on differences. I probably should of said something like "the campaign would figure out how it can connect with individual voters and get them on board based on the issues they care about." I think I went wrong using the word "determine"... to cause vs to ascertain.

Natural Citizen
11-07-2014, 06:57 PM
I apologize if I wasn't clear and caused some confusion. All I meant was that different people are attracted to the message of liberty for different reasons and sometimes it is best to focus on areas of agreement than on differences. I probably should of said something like "the campaign would figure out how it can connect with individual voters and get them on board based on the issues they care about." I think I went wrong using the word "determine"... to cause vs to ascertain.

Oh. Okey dokey. Because I was thinking to myself "well, gosh, if we can't decide the issues any more when sending people to represent us with regard to those issues that we thought were issues except they aren't any more then surely we can decide what aren't considered issues and then scribble those up and pass them around." So that's good. I don't write too good these days. Plus I ain't that bright like I was saying. Using carefully crafted language ain't much my strong point either.

Thanks fer clarifying that, NY-Dano.

phill4paul
11-07-2014, 07:48 PM
Huh? I'm afraid you're going to have to explain this phenomenon to me in a little more detail. I've always thought that the American people sent people to represent their views and/or position on the issues. As well, it is the people who decide the issues if we go by the old of, by and for gag. So maybe my history and working knowledge of the political process for representation is a little different. Can you explain this a little better? I ain't that bright, it seems. Have our political processes for representation been repatriated in some way and I was watching cartoons or something and missed it?

I have to admit that it'll be a heck of an adjustment when I'm talking to the regulars about the way the world works and all of a sudden I have to tell them we can't talk about those things because I have this here peice of paper from a PAC or something telling us that those issues aren't any longer important and that we should just not discuss them because they aren't for us to decide. And then lord knows what the new list will be. Cripes. I like to think that I talk to smart people out in the wild and it'd sure be a problem if I went and insulted their intelligence by telling them that they don't get to decide the issues when it comes to representation and...look...here's this list of issues.."work with it" kind of thing.

Jiminy crickets. I can't believe they went and undid the of, by and for rule. Gosh. I liked that one. Whoda thunkit...pack structure one generation and then PAC structure the next. I can't keep up with this stuff.

You surely don't understand the Democratic PROCESS of this here Republic. ;)

eleganz
11-08-2014, 08:50 PM
I support grassroots efforts in getting this done. It doesn't need to be so detailed and talk about Rand's entire life, if grassroots were to do it, it should be something that is a positive message and a little about him (maybe talking bout his career as an opthamolagist before the senate and his good deeds providing pro bono work.

Grassroots doing work on their own gets things done and people have fun especially before any official campaign starts, it helps elevate Rand's recognition and favorability without getting deeply into the issues and turning people for or against him.

DeadheadForPaul
11-08-2014, 11:00 PM
I like your fire! I'd wait for the campaign to produce materials. Ron's handout was cluttered and had too many issues. There's also the risk of advancing a position which is not actually held by Rand. We will have our chances to promote Rand. Fortunately, he has done a great job getting things started so we don't have a huge name recognition problem like Ron did

Bastiat's The Law
11-08-2014, 11:40 PM
I like your fire! I'd wait for the campaign to produce materials. Ron's handout was cluttered and had too many issues. There's also the risk of advancing a position which is not actually held by Rand. We will have our chances to promote Rand. Fortunately, he has done a great job getting things started so we don't have a huge name recognition problem like Ron did

There's a sizable segment that don't know Rand or confuse him with Ron.

Bastiat's The Law
11-08-2014, 11:41 PM
I support grassroots efforts in getting this done. It doesn't need to be so detailed and talk about Rand's entire life, if grassroots were to do it, it should be something that is a positive message and a little about him (maybe talking bout his career as an opthamolagist before the senate and his good deeds providing pro bono work.

Grassroots doing work on their own gets things done and people have fun especially before any official campaign starts, it helps elevate Rand's recognition and favorability without getting deeply into the issues and turning people for or against him.

I really like your idea about focusing on Rand's career as an opthamolagist and his pro bono work.

Jamesiv1
11-09-2014, 12:01 AM
I bet the campaign will provide something for door-to-door, person to person, grassroots campaigning. I'm planning on joining my neighborhood Republican party group thingy - not because I am a Republican, but because I WANT RAND TO WIN!!!!!!!!

For the record, more than anything else I have voted for independents (usually straight ticket) - until Ron Paul came along. Never because I thought they could actually win, but simply to say 'screw you guys' to the Republicrats.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyltK6pmJGg

alucard13mm
11-09-2014, 12:02 AM
I seem to recall there were mix results and feelings for "Super Brochures" for the 2012 cycle.

I think we should only sell enough points or information to a potential voter to get their vote, not give them extra points or information that might turn that same potential voter off.

We should only talk about things a voter care about and try to work with them on those issues.

Bastiat's The Law
11-09-2014, 01:01 AM
I bet the campaign will provide something for door-to-door, person to person, grassroots campaigning. I'm planning on joining my neighborhood Republican party group thingy - not because I am a Republican, but because I WANT RAND TO WIN!!!!!!!!

For the record, more than anything else I have voted for independents (usually straight ticket) - until Ron Paul came along. Never because I thought they could actually win, but simply to say 'screw you guys' to the Republicrats.

Rupublicrats are killing us. If they stuck by Constitutional ideals they would have overwhelming support. I don't think the democratic party would recover and might become a permanent minority or regional party.

Bastiat's The Law
11-09-2014, 01:50 AM
That blazing red National Debt Chart is jaw-dropping when you look at it's exponential growth. Then tying it into the fall of purchasing power that Americans have experienced over the years with their dollars is brilliant. I think that's good information to get in front of the public.

DevilsAdvocate
11-09-2014, 06:55 AM
Me and few other guys here on RPF, including people with experience in mailers and distribution, looked at the balance sheet of the Super Brochure guys. We discovered that they were skimming something like 20-30% off the top (typical rate for a mailer is 2-3%). Not to mention they were vastly exaggerating the impact of the brochure, by any historic measure of the effectiveness of campaign brochures.

Basically it was a scam. A couple entrepreneurial spirits saw a whole bunch of naive suckers over in the Ron Paul campaign and decided to pounce.

We actually had one of the guys running the operation here on RPF trying to defend himself. He ended up going on a massive egotistical borderline megalomaniacal rant. If this thing actually gets taken seriously I might go back into the archives and find those posts just so people can be reminded of how crazy those guys are.

XNavyNuke
11-09-2014, 08:51 AM
There's a sizable segment that don't know Rand or confuse him with Ron.

And those in the media, and other general opposers of liberty, will be happy to contribute to the confusion.
XNN

philipped
11-09-2014, 12:41 PM
There's a sizable segment that don't know Rand or confuse him with Ron.

That may carry on till the primary debates. smh.

Bastiat's The Law
11-09-2014, 01:04 PM
And those in the media, and other general opposers of liberty, will be happy to contribute to the confusion.
XNN

Oh I'm sure they will on purpose.

alucard13mm
11-09-2014, 02:53 PM
Me and few other guys here on RPF, including people with experience in mailers and distribution, looked at the balance sheet of the Super Brochure guys. We discovered that they were skimming something like 20-30% off the top (typical rate for a mailer is 2-3%). Not to mention they were vastly exaggerating the impact of the brochure, by any historic measure of the effectiveness of campaign brochures.

Basically it was a scam. A couple entrepreneurial spirits saw a whole bunch of naive suckers over in the Ron Paul campaign and decided to pounce.

We actually had one of the guys running the operation here on RPF trying to defend himself. He ended up going on a massive egotistical borderline megalomaniacal rant. If this thing actually gets taken seriously I might go back into the archives and find those posts just so people can be reminded of how crazy those guys are.

Yeah. I recalled those events. People were worried super brochures were hurting ron by over selling unnecessary points that might turn a voter off.

I don't remember if it were campaign brochures or super brochures, but there was a page with coffins on it that offended or upset some voters.

As I said before, ask people what are the main issues and specifically try to win them over by discussing or giving brochures specific to those issues.

Bastiat's The Law
11-09-2014, 03:31 PM
Yeah. I recalled those events. People were worried super brochures were hurting ron by over selling unnecessary points that might turn a voter off.

I don't remember if it were campaign brochures or super brochures, but there was a page with coffins on it that offended or upset some voters.

As I said before, ask people what are the main issues and specifically try to win them over by discussing or giving brochures specific to those issues.

They carpet bombed Iowa and New Hampshire with those things and they turned out to be two of Ron's best states in raw numbers. I never ran into anyone upset by a handout.

William Tell
11-09-2014, 03:37 PM
They carpet bombed Iowa and New Hampshire with those things and they turned out to be two of Ron's best states in raw numbers. I never ran into anyone upset by a handout.

The campaign spent millions as well. Super brochure was a drop in the bucket, and only mailed to a fraction of voters. It was a poor use of resources, except perhaps in states where the campaign was not targeting voters.

Bastiat's The Law
11-09-2014, 03:50 PM
The campaign spent millions as well. Super brochure was a drop in the bucket, and only mailed to a fraction of voters. It was a poor use of resources, except perhaps in states where the campaign was not targeting voters.

People will spend their own money as they see fit. Some will opt to donate to the campaign, some brochures, and other won't vote at all. It's all an exercise in personal liberty so I applaud it.

William Tell
11-09-2014, 03:57 PM
People will spend their own money as they see fit. Some will opt to donate to the campaign, some brochures, and other won't vote at all. It's all an exercise in personal liberty so I applaud it.

Sure, do whatever you like. But as has been pointed out, the super brochures could have been sold for far less than they were. If there is a demand for such, I hope someone here will make competing ones with less skimming involved. I will also continue to point out that the campaign should provide, or at least sell pamphlets as they did last time. I by no means expect the campaign to be fully competent, but they should at least have campaign material. Also I think there should be more focus on local elections.

Bastiat's The Law
11-09-2014, 04:05 PM
Sure, do whatever you like. But as has been pointed out, the super brochures could have been sold for far less than they were. If there is a demand for such, I hope someone here will make competing ones with less skimming involved. I will also continue to point out that the campaign should provide, or at least sell pamphlets as they did last time. I by no means expect the campaign to be fully competent, but they should at least have campaign material. Also I think there should be more focus on local elections.

You just pointed out an opportunity in the market, let's see if anyone fills it. There was big demand for the brochures because the campaign material was awful in comparison. Reminds me of the commercials the campaign rolled out. Heck, the Youtube videos individual people made blew the campaign's commercials out of the water.

Just to remind you that the campaign doesn't always know best


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30yxHqSUva8

William Tell
11-09-2014, 04:07 PM
Just to remind you that the campaign doesn't always know best


This is known, but super brochure is not going to fix that. I hope someone relatively ungreedy fills the demand if there is one. I also hope liberty minded donors will look into some smaller candidates.

William Tell
11-09-2014, 04:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXCZVmQ74OA

TaftFan
11-09-2014, 04:14 PM
One or two issues brochures could be really effective. Guns on the front, abortion on the back for example.

Bastiat's The Law
11-09-2014, 04:20 PM
One or two issues brochures could be really effective. Guns on the front, abortion on the back for example.

It really depends on the county. I wouldn't send anti-abortion brochures to eastern Iowa for example.

philipped
11-09-2014, 05:17 PM
memes > brochures for the under 30 crowd plz.

Bastiat's The Law
11-09-2014, 05:31 PM
memes > brochures for the under 30 crowd plz.

Explain.

William Tell
11-09-2014, 05:36 PM
Explain.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56098497.jpg

philipped
11-09-2014, 05:56 PM
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56098497.jpg

^^^

philipped
11-09-2014, 06:01 PM
Explain.

Meme's will be a way more effective and simpler way to relay whatever message the candidate wants SPECIFICALLY for the under 30 crowd who will get wind of these through the internet come election time especially since it will be a Presidential one.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/70b927b31df27eb15f7c9d4fedadd4a3/tumblr_mr8rmkyeUh1r54qfqo1_1280.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SzBwrtCmW-4/T7VeXES0hsI/AAAAAAAADJM/Wk1AUTnQHjk/s1600/Ron+Paul+Meme.jpg

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/thefw.com/files/2012/08/Obama-meme-quickmeme.jpg

PatriotOne
11-10-2014, 09:17 AM
The campaign asked us through the backdoor to stop sending out the super brochures because they were hurting Ron....they were the ones that had coffins on them and other stuff like links to 911 Truth, etc.

I like the idea of a grassroot effort distributing brochures but I think the brochures should be done by the campaign.

Bastiat's The Law
11-10-2014, 02:26 PM
The campaign asked us through the backdoor to stop sending out the super brochures because they were hurting Ron....they were the ones that had coffins on them and other stuff like links to 911 Truth, etc.

I like the idea of a grassroot effort distributing brochures but I think the brochures should be done by the campaign.

I never seen brochures with 9/11 Truther or coffins in Iowa or NH. Not saying it didn't happen, but I've never seen them (seen thousands of the nice glossy ones in the OP), nor did I run into anyone offended by a brochure (again thousands of people). I'm starting to believe its an old wives' tale or perhaps a small-scale smear campaign.

Bastiat's The Law
11-10-2014, 03:06 PM
I don't know about you guys but this gives me goosebumps! Is it time for Rand's campaign yet :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Koo35fUk8

PatriotOne
11-11-2014, 08:34 PM
I'm starting to believe its an old wives' tale or perhaps a small-scale smear campaign.

Nope...I remember it quite well. The brochure went through some changes during the mailings. Some went out though with coffins and a link to a 9/11 Truth website (can't remember which one now though). Though some changes were made due to feedback but not before a lot were sent out.

I still like the idea of a mass mailing brochure by the grassroots but we def need approval by the campaign of what to send out. Lessons learned.

PatriotOne
11-11-2014, 08:34 PM
They create them and we buy them for pennies to mail. Sounds good to me..lol.

William Tell
11-11-2014, 08:48 PM
But I think you get cheaper mail rates if you have a big group, isn't it more expensive to put stamps on them?

TaftFan
11-11-2014, 09:23 PM
The 2012 Brochures had a recommendation to a video called something like "Federal Reserve Part 1" which was a Zeitgeist clip. So someone on the forum took a Mises Institute documentary and renamed it in hopes people would go to it instead.