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Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:23 AM
My name is Katharine and you can see me under Media on the Ron Paul blimp site. Please ask questions in this thread or email them to: inquiries@ronpaulblimp.com


P.S. I am not a lawyer and I do not know everything. I think I can clarify a lot of things and provide helpful information. Please do not consider anything I say to be legally binding. If I contradict the website it trumps me until I can get it fixed if it's wrong and it trumps me forever if I'm wrong. Basically, I'm going to do my best to answer your questions in a straightforward and honest manner but I make no absolute guarantees that I am right.


*I have unthinkingly been using Liberty Advertising as shorthand for Liberty Political Advertising so please take note that Liberty Political Advertising is the real name of this company.

vodalian
12-03-2007, 03:24 AM
Are you guys currently hiring?

PeacePlan
12-03-2007, 03:26 AM
Can we volunteer to ride around on the blimp and do your jobs for free?

Bodhi
12-03-2007, 03:26 AM
Good question, I not only know people who would be more than happy to take a pay cut but might actually work for free on the project because they believe in the message and Ron Paul.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:27 AM
Are you guys currently hiring?

To the best of my knowledge there is only one position that that they actively hiring for and that is treasurer. They posted a want ad on the forums a week ago and were unsucessful.

vodalian
12-03-2007, 03:28 AM
To the best of my knowledge there is only one position that that they actively hiring for and that is treasurer. They posted a want ad on the forums a week ago and were unsucessful.

Sweet, I can do that job! Who should I email my resume to?

synthetic
12-03-2007, 03:30 AM
Question.

Did you miss the memo? This isn't a volunteer effort. Jobs are starting at $52,000 a year. And those guys are just riding on the blimp with a cell phone camera or something. Renegotiate your terms, it sounds like you have real responsibilities that actually deserves a paycheck.

Abobo
12-03-2007, 03:30 AM
Are there any plans for the blimp to come to the West Coast?

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:34 AM
Can we volunteer to ride around on the blimp and do your jobs for free?


I currently do my job for free but answering 100's of emails, copywriting and editing is about a 6 hour-8 hour a day job and at some point I may be willing to accept pay but I want to see the blimp in the air first. There are others who work at Liberty Advertising who have been doing volunteer work for RP full time for months and who have exhausted their savings. I have no problem with them taking money instead of starting to sell off personal belongings.

When the flight plan went up an hour ago the site lost Transparency and a PAC headings that were posted on the site but that should be fixed in the morning. That document contains a lot of information about where the money is going. I also know that full job and duty descriptions will probably be posted with each position before long.

On a logistical level...maintaining media contacts and getting things done is hard enough logistically with a handful of collaborators, a huge group of volunteers doing the core jobs that are paid would throw things into total chaos, in my opinion.

xexkxex
12-03-2007, 03:35 AM
Hello Katharine.

I wanted to ask about this entry in the flight plan....


Dump Tea Into Harbor from Blimp
Sun, Dec 16, 6pm - 8pm

Could you elaborate on this for us? Thanks.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:35 AM
Can we volunteer to ride around on the blimp and do your jobs for free?


P.S. Where does the idea that we will be riding around on the blimp come from? I am confused.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:37 AM
Good question, I not only know people who would be more than happy to take a pay cut but might actually work for free on the project because they believe in the message and Ron Paul.


A lot of the people currently working on the project did just that but I think you'll agree that most of us do not have more than a couple months living expenses in savings (if that) and some of the people who organized this have been living off their savings for several months now. ..amd the money is running out. These people are not easily replaceable, once you know the ropes, have the media contacts and relationships with reporters you become invaluable.

Second_Tier_My_Ass
12-03-2007, 03:37 AM
Many people are concerned that the project has appeared to become "bloated." Like hiring 2 videographers? We would only need two if we needed to film the blimp from in the air AND on the ground AT THE SAME TIME. Why would we need to do that? Can't one videographer film some while in the air, and then maybe a week later or something film some from the ground? Or how about no videographer at all? The media has lots of cameras, I believe. Also, a webmaster? Just make a public thread on this forum. I guarantee someone (or several people) can do that job for free. Many people (myself included) think there should be drastic cuts in the size of the staff, at least for now anyway until we get the blimp airborne, and many people are holding back donations because of their frustrations. What do you plan to do about this, if anything?

vodalian
12-03-2007, 03:38 AM
I currently do my job for free but answering 100's of emails, copywriting and editing is about a 6 hour-8 hour a day job and at some point I may be willing to accept pay but I want to see the blimp in the air first. There are others who work at Liberty Advertising who have been doing volunteer work for RP full time for months and who have exhausted their savings. I have no problem with them taking money instead of starting to sell off personal belongings.

When the flight plan went up an hour ago the site lost Transparency and a PAC headings that were posted on the site but that should be fixed in the morning. That document contains a lot of information about where the money is going. I also know that full job and duty descriptions will probably be posted with each position before long.

On a logistical level...maintaining media contacts and getting things done is hard enough logistically with a handful of collaborators, a huge group of volunteers doing the core jobs that are paid would throw things into total chaos, in my opinion.

Hey, could you link me with who I should email my resume to? If that treasurer position is still open, I'm the man for the job! I just cave a couple of questions:

Will I be able to also ride in the blimp?
Will the pay be a check or direct deposit? And how will it work? Weekly? Biweekly? etc
Thanks in advance.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:39 AM
Sweet, I can do that job! Who should I email my resume to?


inquiries@ronpaulblimp.com


*On a side note, look up the old thread on the treasurer. To qualify for this job you must have strong relevant work experience and a bit of proof that you are a legitimate and active Ron Paul supporter.

macdee
12-03-2007, 03:42 AM
I'm all for the Ron Paul blimp project and went to make my donation. Only problem though was that the number of minutes listed on the ronpaulblimp website did NOT match the number when making the donation through Google! That's a major problem! You guys need to fix this ASAP! When you fix this, then I will make my donation to this project. How could you miss this? You need to get somebody on this ASAP. Thanks.

I had my credit card out and everything! I had to cancel the transaction! Geeezzz

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:43 AM
Question.

Did you miss the memo? This isn't a volunteer effort. Jobs are starting at $52,000 a year. And those guys are just riding on the blimp with a cell phone camera or something. Renegotiate your terms, it sounds like you have real responsibilities that actually deserves a paycheck.

Once the blimp is in the air I will be willing to take some pay. I haven't been sacrificing for Ron Paul as long as others involved in this have. I've just been sacrificing because I have kids and a grad student hubby. :-) I'm thinking a stipend, nothing like real world pay..

vodalian
12-03-2007, 03:44 AM
inquiries@ronpaulblimp.com


*On a side note, look up the old thread on the treasurer. To qualify for this job you must have strong relevant work experience and a bit of proof that you are a legitimate and active Ron Paul supporter.

Sure, no problem, that's understandable. I will email my resume ASAP!


I really hope I get hired! My wife and I could use the money.. I mean, hell I'm already a free activist, I might as well start getting paid for it, right? :) Especially considering the pay will be FAR better than I get now!

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:45 AM
Are there any plans for the blimp to come to the West Coast?

The blimp that is taking off on the 10th and heading to Boston will not be on the west coast because of how much time over unpopulated areas the flight there would take. However, there is another blimp that may become available in your neck of the woods and if we can get blimp Ron Paul 1 fully funded we may be able to have a Ron Paul 2 for the West Coast and the superbowl.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:46 AM
Question.

Did you miss the memo? This isn't a volunteer effort. Jobs are starting at $52,000 a year. And those guys are just riding on the blimp with a cell phone camera or something. Renegotiate your terms, it sounds like you have real responsibilities that actually deserves a paycheck.


P.S. Once we get things all set for people to purchase sponsorship we plan to go into the Transparency document and account for how many hours and what the job responsibilities are for the various positions.

xexkxex
12-03-2007, 03:48 AM
Just in case.......I think you may have missed this question on the bottom of page one....

Hello Katharine.

I wanted to ask about this entry in the flight plan....


Dump Tea Into Harbor from Blimp
Sun, Dec 16, 6pm - 8pm


Could you elaborate on this for us? Thanks.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:48 AM
Hello Katharine.

I wanted to ask about this entry in the flight plan....



Could you elaborate on this for us? Thanks.


I don't know for sure but right off the top of my head I feel like this is the 1st Ammendment lawyer's domain and we are planning on "exercising free speech". I will ask around in the next day or so.

xexkxex
12-03-2007, 03:49 AM
I don't know for sure but right off the top of my head I feel like this is the 1st Ammendment lawyer's domain and we are planning on "exercising free speech". I will ask around in the next day or so.

Thanks!

BrianK
12-03-2007, 03:51 AM
If on the off chance not enough has been raised by Wednesday, are there plans in action to either get a loan to ensure it goes up or now that its is officially an advertising company maybe the Paul campaign could purchase the shortfall to meet the bare 1 month minimum? (Run-sentences suck but it's late and I'm tired)

The media already knows about this and it would greatly discredit us now if this were not to happen for some reason. I would just appreciate knowing we have some form of a backup in mind. Wednesday is coming real fast.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 03:57 AM
Many people are concerned that the project has appeared to become "bloated." Like hiring 2 videographers? We would only need two if we needed to film the blimp from in the air AND on the ground AT THE SAME TIME. Why would we need to do that? Can't one videographer film some while in the air, and then maybe a week later or something film some from the ground? Or how about no videographer at all? The media has lots of cameras, I believe. Also, a webmaster? Just make a public thread on this forum. I guarantee someone (or several people) can do that job for free. Many people (myself included) think there should be drastic cuts in the size of the staff, at least for now anyway until we get the blimp airborne, and many people are holding back donations because of their frustrations. What do you plan to do about this, if anything?


There have already been drastic cuts made from what was originally proposed. Not salary wise but as far as the additional operational budget goes. I will look into the details as far as having 2 videographers goes and get back to you.

The Ron Paul Blimp Tour is being run by a business, a very new and exciting kind of business at that. As such it requires great legal representation and that is just not free. If you look on the webpage you'll notice that lawyers make up 4 out of 9 people working on this. That is one of the reasons this looks a little bloated.

The full-time webmaster is an absolute must. Once the blimp is in the air the website will have live footage, GPS coordinates, 100's of thousands, perhaps even a million simunltanous viewers and it will have to be managed by one person who can dedicate him or herself to it full-time.

Please continue to ask questions if I am not addressing all of your concerns.

tangent4ronpaul
12-03-2007, 03:58 AM
On a logistical level...maintaining media contacts and getting things done is hard enough logistically with a handful of collaborators, a huge group of volunteers doing the core jobs that are paid would throw things into total chaos, in my opinion.

BS - the state Meetups already do this on a local level.

why pay someone to start from scratch and recreate what is already in place?

-n

Mark
12-03-2007, 04:01 AM
Question about salaries:

The money collected so far will cover a little over a month's salary for:

8 people at $1000/week

52 weeks x 8000$/week = $416,000


416,000 $ / 12 months = 34,666.66 $/month


$43,750 collected - $34,666 = $8084


so, $43,750 collected is equal to about 1 month plus 1 week salary. 5 weeks = $40,000, so about 5 1/2 weeks salary.

Question:

When are salaries going to start being paid?




I currently do my job for free but answering 100's of emails, copywriting and editing is about a 6 hour-8 hour a day job and at some point I may be willing to accept pay but I want to see the blimp in the air first. There are others who work at Liberty Advertising who have been doing volunteer work for RP full time for months and who have exhausted their savings. I have no problem with them taking money instead of starting to sell off personal belongings.

When the flight plan went up an hour ago the site lost Transparency and a PAC headings that were posted on the site but that should be fixed in the morning. That document contains a lot of information about where the money is going. I also know that full job and duty descriptions will probably be posted with each position before long.

On a logistical level...maintaining media contacts and getting things done is hard enough logistically with a handful of collaborators, a huge group of volunteers doing the core jobs that are paid would throw things into total chaos, in my opinion.

Drknows
12-03-2007, 04:01 AM
Once the blimp is in the air I will be willing to take some pay. I haven't been sacrificing for Ron Paul as long as others involved in this have. I've just been sacrificing because I have kids and a grad student hubby. :-) I'm thinking a stipend, nothing like real world pay..

Yes but you guys shouldn't be looking at this like a long term goal. The majority of the grassroots just wanted this up for the 16th.

I understand expenses that it cost to get started and what not. But 1,000 a week and 10 people to manage a blimp that already comes equipped with a pilot and a crew is a bit much.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:01 AM
Hey, could you link me with who I should email my resume to? If that treasurer position is still open, I'm the man for the job! I just cave a couple of questions:

Will I be able to also ride in the blimp?
Will the pay be a check or direct deposit? And how will it work? Weekly? Biweekly? etc
Thanks in advance.

Even though the tone of your questions belies your claims that you actually want to work with Liberty Advertising I will provide answers to the best of my ability.

To the best of my knowledge no one who is working on this project has been promised blimp rides (I haven't and am not taking any). Payment arrangements have not been set up for anyone, the only reason payment is on the Transparency document is so that no sponsor will be decived if we get things set up to pay some people soon.

Second_Tier_My_Ass
12-03-2007, 04:05 AM
The full-time webmaster is an absolute must. Once the blimp is in the air the website will have live footage, GPS coordinates, 100's of thousands, perhaps even a million simunltanous viewers and it will have to be managed by one person who can dedicate him or herself to it full-time.

Please continue to ask questions if I am not addressing all of your concerns.

I guess my main complaint is that none of those things you just listed are needed in order to get the blimp in the air and on its way to New England, which is essentially our primary goal with this project.

I think it would be wise to delay even talking about live footage, GPS coordinates, a webmaster, multiple videographers, etc, until we have raised the necessary funds to fly the blimp. Once we're well on our way, if there appear to be excess funds at that point, then you could green light these other ideas.

Mark
12-03-2007, 04:07 AM
the only reason payment is on the Transparency document is so that no sponsor will be decived if we get things set up to pay some people soon.

Will the pay be "retroactive" for any period of time when people start to receive salaries?

macdee
12-03-2007, 04:08 AM
I had my credit card out and filled in all the information required for the Google payment. I had signed up for the $2,500 contribution reserving 4.5 hours on the blimp. When the complete transaction button came up to confirm my contribution, it said that I had purchased 100 minutes. What? How does 4.5 hours translate to 100 minutes? I canceled this transaction of course.

How are people going to get behind this project when the the numbers don't add up? The blimp team managing this project really needs to correct this discrepancy ASAP. Anyone that made a contribution needs to receive a new email concerning the minutes that they had purchased since the numbers are wrong on the Google transaction page. Get those emails out and describe the correction!

I'm going to wait till this is fixed! Then I'll make my contribution to the Ron Paul Blimp project. Members of the blimp management team need to address this issue by posting here on the RonPaulForums page as well. There's little time and we want to get contributions coming in for our Tea Party 07!

I'm sure it was an oversight. Bump in the road... bump in the road... but enough already! It needs to be fixed ASAP! Like NOW

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:10 AM
I'm all for the Ron Paul blimp project and went to make my donation. Only problem though was that the number of minutes listed on the ronpaulblimp website did NOT match the number when making the donation through Google! That's a major problem! You guys need to fix this ASAP! When you fix this, then I will make my donation to this project. How could you miss this? You need to get somebody on this ASAP. Thanks.

I had my credit card out and everything! I had to cancel the transaction! Geeezzz


We flagged this problem already and hope it will be fixed tommorow morning. The times per sponsorship amount on the website are accurate. The times in Google checkout are not. We realized that the amounts of time on the main site had not been calculated using a flat rate and we corrected that today. We just forgot that Google checkout doesn't get that info. automatically. If you buy now you will still recive the time listed on the site even if Google is off but feel free to wait until that is corrected.

PeacePlan
12-03-2007, 04:10 AM
Are you going to hold this money for a while to see if you have enough?

Will you start drawing weekly checks?

Is there back pay for work that has been already done?


When are you going to start using these donations and for what purpose first?

I am concerned if we have back pay involved the donations of 40,000 may already be gone?

You say you are transparent on your site make sure expenditures are included.

How about an online ledger that is updated of what is taken in and what is spent?

Do have current bills and fees that you intend to pay with donations?

tangent4ronpaul
12-03-2007, 04:11 AM
I don't know for sure but right off the top of my head I feel like this is the 1st Ammendment lawyer's domain and we are planning on "exercising free speech". I will ask around in the next day or so.

well, if we can do that why can't we drop G W Bush amero (fake dollar bills) with a RP flier on the other side on the Fed Reserve sites we visit?

-n

Mark
12-03-2007, 04:14 AM
Are you going to hold this money for a while to see if you have enough?



Yeah, I was wondering about that too.

Will everyone wait until the Blimp is ready (in the air) to collect pay?

Being paid from that point on, without retroactive salary?

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:15 AM
If on the off chance not enough has been raised by Wednesday, are there plans in action to either get a loan to ensure it goes up or now that its is officially an advertising company maybe the Paul campaign could purchase the shortfall to meet the bare 1 month minimum? (Run-sentences suck but it's late and I'm tired)

The media already knows about this and it would greatly discredit us now if this were not to happen for some reason. I would just appreciate knowing we have some form of a backup in mind. Wednesday is coming real fast.


This will happen by Wednesday because we will do everything possible to serve our customers and make sure all those who made legitimate pledges are comfortable purchasing sponsorship. The blimp owner has been willing to speculate a little so far because we are a new and exciting company with an advertising angle that he likes. I think we can show that his confidence in us was not ill founded.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:19 AM
BS - the state Meetups already do this on a local level.

why pay someone to start from scratch and recreate what is already in place?

-n

Because the blimp is a real time, live, continuous project and playing relay with it among people who cannot be held accountable like employees can is difficult. I wish it could be a pure grassroots effort but it was not possible to do it that way.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:20 AM
Yes but you guys shouldn't be looking at this like a long term goal. The majority of the grassroots just wanted this up for the 16th.

I understand expenses that it cost to get started and what not. But 1,000 a week and 10 people to manage a blimp that already comes equipped with a pilot and a crew is a bit much.


Liberty Advertising is currently working on one big project, The Ron Paul Blimp Tour. In future there is every likelihood that Liberty Advertising will have other clients that like the Liberty brand.

Mark
12-03-2007, 04:22 AM
Because the blimp is a real time, live, continuous project and playing relay with it among people who cannot be held accountable like employees can is difficult. I wish it could be a pure grassroots effort but it was not possible to do it that way.

Mckarnin, I asked about when people start to get paid. Did you see that question?

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:23 AM
I guess my main complaint is that none of those things you just listed are needed in order to get the blimp in the air and on its way to New England, which is essentially our primary goal with this project.

I think it would be wise to delay even talking about live footage, GPS coordinates, a webmaster, multiple videographers, etc, until we have raised the necessary funds to fly the blimp. Once we're well on our way, if there appear to be excess funds at that point, then you could green light these other ideas.

We can get a blimp in the air but if we can't follow up with information about its location, and feedback for those who purchased sponsorships there will be a lot of discontent. We have to set those things up a little in advance of our need. Time will be of the essence. The blimp takes off on the 10th and less than a week later will be flying over the biggest moneybomb ever and will generate tons of new sponsors. We have to be prepared.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:25 AM
Will the pay be "retroactive" for any period of time when people start to receive salaries?

The attorneys who were consulted initially may have money due to them but I know that none of the others have any intention of taking retroactive pay of any kind.

BrianK
12-03-2007, 04:25 AM
This will happen by Wednesday because we will do everything possible to serve our customers and make sure all those who made legitimate pledges are comfortable purchasing sponsorship. The blimp owner has been willing to speculate a little so far because we are a new and exciting company with an advertising angle that he likes. I think we can show that his confidence in us was not ill founded.

I agree that this is an amazing new paradigm shift in the world of advertising. I'm amazed at the legal minds that came up with it, truly I am. I'm just worried about there not being enough time to reach the fundraising deadlines. If Elijah had thought up this idea 2 or 3 months earlier I would not at all be concerned, its just a matter of I find I can't go to sleep because I keep refreshing the forum page, looking for some assurances that this beautiful dream won't end up in the almost was bin. Please just a wink-wink or a nudge-nudge that says there is some kind of backup plan in place. You don't even have to say what it is, just something to allow my troubled mind to sleep.

Second_Tier_My_Ass
12-03-2007, 04:26 AM
Liberty Advertising is currently working on one big project, The Ron Paul Blimp Tour. In future there is every likelihood that Liberty Advertising will have other clients that like the Liberty brand.

Does this mean that if, for example, the Rudy Giuliani campaign came to you for help in doing something similar, that you would?

I guess what I'm asking is, this project was founded upon the belief in liberty and freedom by the Ron Paul grassroots movement, and ultimately it lead to the creation of your company. Would you work with someone who you didn't think upheld those same beliefs? Clearly the Ron Paul grassroots would have a huge problem if you started helping the Giuliani campaign. But if he asked for your help and you denied him, then as a legitimate company, how can you justifiably entangle your personal beliefs with your business, especially as a start-up company in need of business?

I know this is a difficult question (among several that I've asked tonight), and for that I must apologize, but it's important that we know the answer. Thank you SO MUCH for doing this for us.

Mark
12-03-2007, 04:28 AM
Also, it was nice to see that refunds will be made after expenses are paid.

What expenses are they? Salary, office, promotion, lawyers?

A detailed list of deductible expenses would be nice too.

So we would know what to expect in a refund.

Mark
12-03-2007, 04:33 AM
The attorneys who were consulted initially may have money due to them but I know that none of the others have any intention of taking retroactive pay of any kind.

Thanks. Yeah, Lawyers are expensive. :)

It would be nice if everyone waited until the blimp is in the air before getting paid.

As per my figures earlier,

so far only about 5 1/2 weeks worth of pay for 8 people has been collected.

At that rate, if people got paid ahead of the blimp flying,

it could be very detrimental to actually getting the blimp in the air.

A list on the site of, who and when, are getting paid would be nice.

OferNave
12-03-2007, 04:33 AM
My name is Katharine and you can see me under Media on the Ron Paul blimp site. Please ask questions in this thread or email them to: inquiries@ronpaulblimp.com

Thank you for jumping in here and being responsive. I hope you continue to do so.

Go blimp!

macdee
12-03-2007, 04:34 AM
Just want to say Thank You Mckarnin for doing such a great job in answering all these questions. It means a lot to people. Thanks again Mckarnin.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:36 AM
The first purpose that trumps all else where money is concerned is to get the blimp in the air and that means paying the blimp company. Now, I addressed retroactive payments (regarding money for work done before this time) earlier but will say right now that if were were to raise enough for the blimp and not enough to pay anyone but the lawyers the blimp will lift off. If the others have to wait a few weeks after the blimp lifts off to get paid because of that prioritzation there is a chance they might take pay starting from the date the blimp lifted off or even from today if the money is there for it. But everyone is firmly in agreement that getting the blimp off the ground is #1.

We have already discussed forming a volunteer accountability committee to whom we will submit our info for audit. This will happen once we get this thing going if we are able to coordinate it.

I will look into the current bills and fees for you.

I think weekly checks are out until enough money for the blimp itself is secured.



I may have missed something. Please let me know if I didn't address all your concerns.





Are you going to hold this money for a while to see if you have enough?

Will you start drawing weekly checks?

Is there back pay for work that has been already done?


When are you going to start using these donations and for what purpose first?

I am concerned if we have back pay involved the donations of 40,000 may already be gone?

You say you are transparent on your site make sure expenditures are included.

How about an online ledger that is updated of what is taken in and what is spent?

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:38 AM
Mckarnin, I asked about when people start to get paid. Did you see that question?


If you read further you'll see more info. I do not think anyone will draw pay if it means not getting the blimp into the air. If payments have to be delayed due to prioritizing the paymetns to the blimp owner I expect that people may collect pay retroactively to the 1st of December when all of this was kicked off or retroactively to the launch date but not retroactively to anytime in November or earlier.

Mark
12-03-2007, 04:44 AM
If you read further you'll see more info. I do not think anyone will draw pay if it means not getting the blimp into the air. If payments have to be delayed due to prioritizing the paymetns to the blimp owner I expect that people may collect pay retroactively to the 1st of December when all of this was kicked off or retroactively to the launch date but not retroactively to anytime in November or earlier.


Thanks Mckarinin!

The blimp being ready to fly asap is very important to me.

Expenses draining what has come in, before the blimp is flying, is a concern for me.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:44 AM
I agree that this is an amazing new paradigm shift in the world of advertising. I'm amazed at the legal minds that came up with it, truly I am. I'm just worried about there not being enough time to reach the fundraising deadlines. If Elijah had thought up this idea 2 or 3 months earlier I would not at all be concerned, its just a matter of I find I can't go to sleep because I keep refreshing the forum page, looking for some assurances that this beautiful dream won't end up in the almost was bin. Please just a wink-wink or a nudge-nudge that says there is some kind of backup plan in place. You don't even have to say what it is, just something to allow my troubled mind to sleep.

I'll get back to you on that but for now does this help ;-)?

tangent4ronpaul
12-03-2007, 04:45 AM
Because the blimp is a real time, live, continuous project and playing relay with it among people who cannot be held accountable like employees can is difficult. I wish it could be a pure grassroots effort but it was not possible to do it that way.

YEAH RIGHT!

This is supposed to be a grassroots effort and the grassroots has TOTALLY ROCKED so far!

Get rid of the control freak attitude - that looses elections.

btw: the WiFi completely breaks down when going cross country and may not be so hot in some cities. I would feel a lot better with the $50,000 gyroscope steady camera and microwave downlink to news stations if we are talking about pissing money away on salaries and equipment. (after the basic blimp is bought and paid for, of course).

-n

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:46 AM
Does this mean that if, for example, the Rudy Giuliani campaign came to you for help in doing something similar, that you would?

I guess what I'm asking is, this project was founded upon the belief in liberty and freedom by the Ron Paul grassroots movement, and ultimately it lead to the creation of your company. Would you work with someone who you didn't think upheld those same beliefs? Clearly the Ron Paul grassroots would have a huge problem if you started helping the Giuliani campaign. But if he asked for your help and you denied him, then as a legitimate company, how can you justifiably entangle your personal beliefs with your business, especially as a start-up company in need of business?

I know this is a difficult question (among several that I've asked tonight), and for that I must apologize, but it's important that we know the answer. Thank you SO MUCH for doing this for us.

My understanding is that our company has a brand image of its own to maintain and that is the Liberty Brand. No advertising incompatible with the Liberty Brand would be accepted. I can look into that further if you like?

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:48 AM
Also, it was nice to see that refunds will be made after expenses are paid.

What expenses are they? Salary, office, promotion, lawyers?

A detailed list of deductible expenses would be nice too.

So we would know what to expect in a refund.

I'll put that on my list of things to look into. I have a feeling that costs for the blimp owner to make the signage may be one of the main expenses.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:49 AM
Thank you for jumping in here and being responsive. I hope you continue to do so.

Go blimp!

You're welcome. I am happy to help. I want to see this blimp fly, even if it's just on tv.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:50 AM
Just want to say Thank You Mckarnin for doing such a great job in answering all these questions. It means a lot to people. Thanks again Mckarnin.

You're welcome. I am signed on for the duration so please continue to ask questions you may have ans send people to the email I listed or to this thread.

Second_Tier_My_Ass
12-03-2007, 04:51 AM
We can get a blimp in the air but if we can't follow up with information about its location, and feedback for those who purchased sponsorships there will be a lot of discontent. We have to set those things up a little in advance of our need. Time will be of the essence. The blimp takes off on the 10th and less than a week later will be flying over the biggest moneybomb ever and will generate tons of new sponsors. We have to be prepared.

I still don't quite understand. I mean yeah, the GPS tracking and updated website with live video will be awesome for all of us online Ron Paul supporters. But that's not what this blimp is for. This blimp is for the people who haven't heard of him or who have heard of him but haven't yet been convinced to find out more. It's for the sake of increased name-recognition.

I don't see why a person would see the blimp, wonder who Ron Paul is, and then go online to the blimp website to watch it in real time when it is right outside their house. It is unnecessary for our goals, in my honest opinion. Again, I think only if we have a surplus of funds AFTER we're airborne, should we begin talking about doing anything extra. Oh well, this is the last time I'll bring this issue up, I promise.


My understanding is that our company has a brand image of its own to maintain and that is the Liberty Brand. No advertising incompatible with the Liberty Brand would be accepted. I can look into that further if you like?

Nope, that's all I wanted to know. I had a feeling that was true, but wanted to hear you say it publically. Hehe.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 04:58 AM
YEAH RIGHT!

This is supposed to be a grassroots effort and the grassroots has TOTALLY ROCKED so far!

Get rid of the control freak attitude - that looses elections.

btw: the WiFi completely breaks down when going cross country and may not be so hot in some cities. I would feel a lot better with the $50,000 gyroscope steady camera and microwave downlink to news stations if we are talking about pissing money away on salaries and equipment. (after the basic blimp is bought and paid for, of course).

-n


I agree that the grassroots kicks a** but when people tried to organize this in that way legal barriers, donation caps and legal and administrative work that would have delayed this project by weeks or months kept coming up.

We would be simpletons not to desire a high level of control and accountability when we are talking about making a $350,000+ purchase. I do not think anyone at Liberty Advertising (except the lawyers) are control freaks, just responsible.

Drknows
12-03-2007, 05:00 AM
Just one more question...


So when did you guys decide to turn this into a for profit business? Before or After the pledges were raised?

macdee
12-03-2007, 05:01 AM
Thank you Mark. You have good points and I personally appreciate you concern. It keeps everyone on track and honest!

We have to get all the pledges fulfilled now for this project. I'm good to go when the Google transaction page is corrected for the minutes purchased. I'm good for 2,500.

The Ron Paul Blimp management team is dedicated to this project and are personally taking time off from their regular jobs to get it done. I for one am not expecting them to suffer financially in their support for Ron Paul. Their helping US for God's sake!

The primaries are just weeks away and we need the media exposure! It's worth millions! Everything is set up... and were doing it now. Make your contributions to The Ron Paul blimp... the R3VOLUTION is NOW!

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:01 AM
I still don't quite understand. I mean yeah, the GPS tracking and updated website with live video will be awesome for all of us online Ron Paul supporters. But that's not what this blimp is for. This blimp is for the people who haven't heard of him or who have heard of him but haven't yet been convinced to find out more. It's for the sake of increased name-recognition.

I don't see why a person would see the blimp, wonder who Ron Paul is, and then go online to the blimp website to watch it in real time when it is right outside their house. It is unnecessary for our goals, in my honest opinion. Again, I think only if we have a surplus of funds AFTER we're airborne, should we begin talking about doing anything extra. Oh well, this is the last time I'll bring this issue up, I promise.



Nope, that's all I wanted to know. I had a feeling that was true, but wanted to hear you say it publically. Hehe.



I can certainly look into this further but the GPS and related goodies make up a very small portion of operating expenses compared to the return they will generate for our sponsors, who will be able to see their advertisement live. I also think we will be encouraging the media and other blimp lovers to get hooked on where the blimp is. I'm sure YouTube's will spring up to help us with that.

Don't worry, bring stuff up until you are satisfied. If you still have questions about this my job isn't finished.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:03 AM
Just one more question...


So when did you guys decide to turn this into a for profit business? Before or After the pledges were raised?

Not 100% sure but I think the transition occured when we realized that this wasn't happening as a PAC and we were going to have to bring in a crew to run a business.

OferNave
12-03-2007, 05:04 AM
I, like everyone else, was taken by surprise as the project started evolving in the last few days into its current incarnation. But I see where you guys are going with this, and the level of professionalism you are shooting for is not quite doable grassroots style. Grassroots is powerful, but it's good at some things, and bad at others.

I think perhaps more people might understand the difference, and why it's important (and why the expenses are what they are), once they start seeing the results after the 10th.

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 05:04 AM
I think your great volunteering so with all due respect...this is crazy

Why no post "Need Cameramen, Publicists, Lawyers" before you hire people, there are thousands of members on here many qualified to help, several members have already offered why not hire them since they'll work for Expenses or FREE. Especially webmaster 1000k a week? What the hell ? First ask for volunteers then discounts from paid RP fans. LAST hire full time workers.

I know you are forming a company but if you want to start if off RP name then follow RP mantras. The originally 350k for staff with pilots, ground crew, ect. covered essential costs. This is insane the amount of overhead. Cameramen not in short supply if you noticed their is a writers strike in Hollwood so lots of series/ shorts/ tv movies are on hold. There could be a RP fan that would have done it for expenses, same for many positions.

Cut the fat or you probably will get burned to be honest.

All I ask before you hire, look for FREE help!!!!! That's the point of grassroots were more than a piggy bank, we have skills, abilities, we can do things beside fund companies !!


Katherine you have so far said that you are volunteering and that is commendable however if you feel that you cannot continue to work for free please POST in order to see if someone will take the job for free or expenses before you think that you are irreplaceable...no offense.

I know I can choose not to donate and I might get flamed for posting but I want to see this blimp and if I thought it would fly under this present scheme I would keep my mouth shut, but you know how many meetups/ local ads/ slim jims a million or two can fund ?

pointe
12-03-2007, 05:06 AM
Thanks for taking questions.

I see that they have a stop listed to "Dump tea into harbor from the blimp". I thought earlier it was listed that they were NOT going to throw anything out of the blimp. Will they?

(I can't find the original post stating they would not.)

Drknows
12-03-2007, 05:09 AM
Not 100% sure but I think the transition occured when we realized that this wasn't happening as a PAC and we were going to have to bring in a crew to run a business.

I remember when it was!

It was when elijah switched the pledges around from 2,300 to 5,000 to 10,000 on the site about 3 weeks ago. He kept saying the details are coming but he never said anything about this until you were able to collect real money.

I

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:10 AM
Just a link you may find interesting: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=48

Look at the scores for different percentages of money spent on administration. As it currently stands, at a rate of $400,000 for a month of sponsorship there is $50,000 left after the blimp itself is paid for. That means the total percentage of incoming money spent on lawyers, employee pay, computer and web technology, extras like media packets and flight jackets comes to 8%. If we were a charity we would be getting stellar ratings.

I am not telling anyone not to ask questions. I am just pointing out that we are well within the administrative cost guidelines for highly rated charities.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:11 AM
I, like everyone else, was taken by surprise as the project started evolving in the last few days into its current incarnation. But I see where you guys are going with this, and the level of professionalism you are shooting for is not quite doable grassroots style. Grassroots is powerful, but it's good at some things, and bad at others.

I think perhaps more people might understand the difference, and why it's important (and why the expenses are what they are), once they start seeing the results after the 10th.

We certainly hope so.

pointe
12-03-2007, 05:12 AM
In the FAQ you list this as not being a "commercial flight":


"We have been told that the blimp will fly over the Super Bowl and Times Square for New Years. Has the proper research been done to get the security clearance for these incredibly restricted regions of air space?

Those spaces are restricted for commercial and pleasure flights. This flight is neither."

Since you are now a for profit advertising LLC selling timeshares, couldn't this be construed as a "commercial flight"?

Thanks...

Man from La Mancha
12-03-2007, 05:13 AM
Why wouldn't you except people including lawyers that would be willing to work for free or for $1, to replace the paid for jobs?

.

tremendoustie
12-03-2007, 05:14 AM
The problem is, this was started, and pledges were taken, as a grassroots effort. To then convert this project into a launching pad for a private company is disingenous. The idea was that the organizers would help organize the project because they supported Ron Paul, not because they wanted to make profit off of Ron Paul supporters.

If the organizers want to start a company, they should do so independently of the grassroots. If the grassroots decided that a private company was worth hiring and chose it that would be one thing, but to start a project as a grassroots effort, take pledges, and then co-opt it for profit and to launch a company is highly immoral in my opinion.

Also, the current plan is very wasteful. We have many, many people who produce videos for free and post them online. There is no need for "videographers". Many grassroots supporters would immediate create videos of the blimp and rallies on their own. Why do we need two managers??!? Why do we need a full time web tech when many people would volunteer for the job? What exactly will Trevor and Elijah working on for 40+ hours a week, because media interviews sure aint it.

The original plan was to rent a blimp for the month. That is what people signed up for, and that is what should be done. Maybe one person to coordinate volunteer efforts could get living expenses, but this is wasteful.

We did not donate money to help launch a company, we donated it to pay for the blimp and to promote Ron Paul!!!

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 05:17 AM
ust a link you may find interesting: http://www.charitynavigator.org/inde...t.view&cpid=48

Look at the scores for different percentages of money spent on administration. As it currently stands, at a rate of $400,000 for a month of sponsorship there is $50,000 left after the blimp itself is paid for. That means the total percentage of incoming money spent on lawyers, employee pay, computer and web technology, extras like media packets and flight jackets comes to 8%. If we were a charity we would be getting stellar ratings.

I am not telling anyone not to ask questions. I am just pointing out that we are well within the administrative cost guidelines for highly rated charities.

OK but why not ASK if anyone can do for free?

If there was a post looking for volunteer cameraman that is experienced and has film credits that will volunteer for expenses paid for a month ? I would say you would get however many you need. I for one know a few documentary workers who are RP fans that could do this for expenses and small stipend (probably a 1/4 or 1/5 of there 1000 a week.

Listen to Ron Paul let the free market decide, offer the option

Drknows
12-03-2007, 05:19 AM
The problem is, this was started, and pledges were taken, as a grassroots effort. To then convert this project into a launching pad for a private company is disingenous. The idea was that the organizers would help organize the project because they supported Ron Paul, not because they wanted to make profit off of Ron Paul supporters.

If the organizers want to start a company, they should do so independently of the grassroots. If the grassroots decided that a private company was worth hiring and chose it that would be one thing, but to start a project as a grassroots effort, take pledges, and then co-opt it for profit and to launch a company is highly immoral in my opinion.

Also, the current plan is very wasteful. We have many, many people who produce videos for free and post them online. There is no need for "videographers". Many grassroots supporters would immediate create videos of the blimp and rallies on their own. Why do we need two managers??!? Why do we need a full time web tech when many people would volunteer for the job? What exactly will Trevor and Elijah working on for 40+ hours a week, because media interviews sure aint it.

The original plan was to rent a blimp for the month. That is what people signed up for, and that is what should be done. Maybe one person to coordinate volunteer efforts could get living expenses, but this is wasteful.

We did not donate money to help launch a company, we donated it to pay for the blimp and to promote Ron Paul!!!

i will speak my mind freely now, This exactly why elijah held off telling us about this for profit business venture 3 weeks ago when he raised the amount you could pledge. and its also why you took down the transparency page from the main site. until all the emails went out and the pledges were fulfilled.

You guys knew the grassroots would never promote this bullsh&t idea if we knew we had to pay a EXTRA 150k for a advertising agency.


AM I RIGHT? or am i right?


*edit this another reason they both avoided posting here and answering questions.

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 05:21 AM
PS love the way you hide the TRANSPARENCY PAGE

Mark
12-03-2007, 05:21 AM
I am not telling anyone not to ask questions. I am just pointing out that we are well within the administrative cost guidelines for highly rated charities.



It might help if all employees pledged not to be paid until the blimp is flying.

No "retroactive" pay, just, start getting paid once the promise has been fulfilled to have a Ron Paul blimp in the air.

And also, pledge not to spend any money on the business as a whole except for whatever is needed for the blimp.

Is that possible? I know you can't speak for others now without asking, but,

a pledge from everyone to not make any money from this until the blimp actually flys would be nice.

Would you ask all involved to put off getting paid until we see real results first?

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:22 AM
I think your great volunteering so with all due respect...this is crazy

Why no post "Need Cameramen, Publicists, Lawyers" before you hire people, there are thousands of members on here many qualified to help, several members have already offered why not hire them since they'll work for Expenses or FREE. Especially webmaster 1000k a week? What the hell ? First ask for volunteers then discounts from paid RP fans. LAST hire full time workers.

I know you are forming a company but if you want to start if off RP name then follow RP mantras. The originally 350k for staff with pilots, ground crew, ect. covered essential costs. This is insane the amount of overhead. Cameramen not in short supply if you noticed their is a writers strike in Hollwood so lots of series/ shorts/ tv movies are on hold. There could be a RP fan that would have done it for expenses, same for many positions.

Cut the fat or you probably will get burned to be honest.

All I ask before you hire, look for FREE help!!!!! That's the point of grassroots were more than a piggy bank, we have skills, abilities, we can do things beside fund companies !!


Katherine you have so far said that you are volunteering and that is commendable however if you feel that you cannot continue to work for free please POST in order to see if someone will take the job for free or expenses before you think that you are irreplaceable...no offense.

I know I can choose not to donate and I might get flamed for posting but I want to see this blimp and if I thought it would fly under this present scheme I would keep my mouth shut, but you know how many meetups/ local ads/ slim jims a million or two can fund ?

I respect your opinions on this matter and understand where you are coming from. Pretty much everyone (besides the high end lawyers) came into this project for free. No one was expecting or promised money. It became legally necessary to do this as a business and not a PAC or pure grassroots effort. Those who are working on this project have proven themselves to be loyal, reliable and talented. Payments legitimize those who do this work as workers at a business and also guarantees that we can keep those who are already keeping pace and excelling at this project with us instead of having to gamble with a revolving door of untested volunteers.

I do not consider myself to be irreplaceable but I have a unique combination of skill sets that make me very well suited as far as talent and temperment go for this job. Liberty Advertising may exist well into the future but for now we are dealing with a one-month long project. Coming up with a group of effective and commited people this fast who form a good team and who are working very well together is rare. We don't fight, we respect eachother's ideas, we don't waste time with egos. This is a solid group of ethical people and the free market will decide. If one of us fails to hold up our end of the bargain a replacement will be found.

Please continue to communicate your concerns to us.

macdee
12-03-2007, 05:23 AM
You keep repeating yourself Mark. Your question has been answered. Again... again... and yet again!

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:24 AM
Thanks for taking questions.

I see that they have a stop listed to "Dump tea into harbor from the blimp". I thought earlier it was listed that they were NOT going to throw anything out of the blimp. Will they?

(I can't find the original post stating they would not.)

I think it may be tied to exercising our 1st Amendment rights. We have a 1st Amendment lawyer.

Edited because I don't write amendment often.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:26 AM
I remember when it was!

It was when elijah switched the pledges around from 2,300 to 5,000 to 10,000 on the site about 3 weeks ago. He kept saying the details are coming but he never said anything about this until you were able to collect real money.

I

If you could state more clearly what you are implying it would help me to reply. I can answer one part and that is that we were unable to collect real money until we had set things up legally and that didn't happen until we were an LLC, Liberty Advertising.

Iwantbatteries
12-03-2007, 05:27 AM
Your repeating yourself Mark.

stay good mark, stay good!

Mark
12-03-2007, 05:27 AM
Will you post a list of sponsors, of course with each one's permission, so we can see who has pledged for the Ron Paul Blimp?

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:27 AM
In the FAQ you list this as not being a "commercial flight":


"We have been told that the blimp will fly over the Super Bowl and Times Square for New Years. Has the proper research been done to get the security clearance for these incredibly restricted regions of air space?

Those spaces are restricted for commercial and pleasure flights. This flight is neither."

Since you are now a for profit advertising LLC selling timeshares, couldn't this be construed as a "commercial flight"?

Thanks...


I will get an answer for you on that. I do know that there was a lot of legal research done and things were set up accordingly.

pointe
12-03-2007, 05:29 AM
I will get an answer for you on that. I do know that there was a lot of legal research done and things were set up accordingly.


Deleting my original response since you changed yours :p

Also modified the quoted text.


Thanks for your response. I am impressed with the cordial replies you have been giving to many posts that have been rather charged.

macdee
12-03-2007, 05:34 AM
I pledged 500 dollars for this project. I will be contributing 2,500. I would like to know how much you have contributed to this project, with your permission of course.

My contribution is being made by myself as an individual on my own. I hope I'm on the top of your list of sponsors!

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:39 AM
Why wouldn't you except people including lawyers that would be willing to work for free or for $1, to replace the paid for jobs?

.


Well, for one we have some paid workers because this is a business. Secondly, we needed top notch legal representation and we got the former chairman of the FEC. If you can find someone equivalent who will work for a dollar I am sure Liberty Advertising would be happy to be introduced. As far as the other employees and lawyers go, yes I am sure there are some people who would be willing to work for $1 full time (perhaps they have a bit of money in savings) but to be honest most talented, high-energy people who work 16+ hour days for weeks on end require pay for practical reasons (food, shelter, telephone, etc...). When the payroll makes up a fairly small percentage of the total costs I don't see the sense in trading talented people who have proven themselves for new, unproven people just because the proven folks are too hard up after prolonged full-time non-profit volunteering to work pro bono anymore.


***Warning, my own personal opinions factor in to this message highly***

Without talent and hard-work there is no blimp. The blimp would not be where it is now, in fact it would probably not have even entered our imaginations were it not for Trevor and Elijah. I don't think a little pay so they can relax and focus is a bad thing. They've shown they have the talent to make this dream become a reality and I think swapping them out for independently wealthy volunteers over a few thousand when we are talking about a $400,000 project (that will generate millions more in free advertising) is a bad idea.

Mark
12-03-2007, 05:40 AM
I pledged 500 dollars for this project. I will be contributing 2,500. I would like to know how much you have contributed to this project, with your permission of course.

My contribution is being made by myself as an individual on my own.

Nothing yet, all my available money is going to Ron Paul right now, plus the Granny Warriors for their plane flyover at NASCAR races.

I'm currently unemployed, and eating Ramen noodles for food. I don't have money to send now.

Yet, I've sent RP and the Granny's in total about $600, and I want to have money to donate for the teaparty.

I have this month's rent covered, but, I need a job soon in order to continue having a place to live.

Mark
12-03-2007, 05:43 AM
You keep repeating yourself Mark. Your question has been answered. Again... again... and yet again!

What question did I repeat?

I posted one, others posted afterwards were answered, so I thought she missed mine.

A question about pledging not to receive pay until the blimp flys, is different than asking when people start to get paid. Isn't it?

She answered she wasn't sure about retroactive pay, so I asked if people getting paid would promise to wait until the blimp flys to get paid.

tangent4ronpaul
12-03-2007, 05:44 AM
I'll put that on my list of things to look into. I have a feeling that costs for the blimp owner to make the signage may be one of the main expenses.

why was the cost of the sign initially included/free and now is not? (because the guy that owns the blimp is a RP supporter).

Why was it initially supposed to be painted directly on the blimp and now is a banner to be draped over it?

What would the retro-fit time be to put a scrolling banner on instead or later?

-n

btw: could you put the detailed research page back up? I wanted to go over some things in that again and cache a copy!

thanks,

-n

BrianK
12-03-2007, 05:44 AM
I bet that a lot of the naysayers might relax if there was some act of faith from the the official campaign. Have you guys convinced the official campaign to pay for your services? Even if they only bought 2.7 minutes as a symbolic gesture it might help you a lot.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:47 AM
The problem is, this was started, and pledges were taken, as a grassroots effort. To then convert this project into a launching pad for a private company is disingenous. The idea was that the organizers would help organize the project because they supported Ron Paul, not because they wanted to make profit off of Ron Paul supporters.

If the organizers want to start a company, they should do so independently of the grassroots. If the grassroots decided that a private company was worth hiring and chose it that would be one thing, but to start a project as a grassroots effort, take pledges, and then co-opt it for profit and to launch a company is highly immoral in my opinion.

Also, the current plan is very wasteful. We have many, many people who produce videos for free and post them online. There is no need for "videographers". Many grassroots supporters would immediate create videos of the blimp and rallies on their own. Why do we need two managers??!? Why do we need a full time web tech when many people would volunteer for the job? What exactly will Trevor and Elijah working on for 40+ hours a week, because media interviews sure aint it.

The original plan was to rent a blimp for the month. That is what people signed up for, and that is what should be done. Maybe one person to coordinate volunteer efforts could get living expenses, but this is wasteful.

We did not donate money to help launch a company, we donated it to pay for the blimp and to promote Ron Paul!!!


When the pledges were taken they were just that, pledges. No one took any money until the new Ron Paul Blimp site was operational and the Terms of Sale were published. No one is being compelled legally to make good on their pledge with a purchase of sponsorship.

Many of those involved regret the fact that they could not make this a reality legally as a grassroots effort. Of course necessity turned into Liberty Advertizing which is a very uniquely structured business that may cause a major paradigm shift in the advertising world and the political world.

I am already looking into the videographer question for an earlier poster and will get back to you both. I have been working closely with Trevor and Elijah for days and can tell you that the conference calls, text editing, legal consulting start in the AM and run into the AM daily. Trevor is engaged with several phone and in person interviews on a daily basis as well as doing the interfacing with the graphics people and the blimp people and the media people and the flight plan people, etc... So far I have yet to see either of them work what appears to be less than a 15 hour day.

Please continue to make inquiries if I didn't answer all of your questions.

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 05:48 AM
Without talent and hard-work there is no blimp. The blimp would not be where it is now, in fact it would probably not have even entered our imaginations were it not for Trevor and Elijah. I don't think a little pay so they can relax and focus is a bad thing. They've shown they have the talent to make this dream become a reality and I think swapping them out for independently wealthy volunteers over a few thousand when we are talking about a $400,000 project (that will generate millions more in free advertising) is a bad idea.


Ok obviously there is a large discrepancy betweeen the two camps. Baby steps? Offer the webmaster job for expenses/ small stipend see if anyone bites?
Offer cameramen for volunteer/ small stipend plus expenses ?
Have direct link to transparency page on web site?

Please take back to group/ trevor/ whoever

Sorry if come across as angry but whether you're expenses are justifiable or not, you need to get the blimp to fly= need support. A way to get support is work with RP forums. Independently wealthy volunteers ? Alot of people are wealthy but would donate a full month or two of their life to RP. Super tuesday is two months from now. Many people would use up vacation/ take leave/ sabbatical without having to be wealthy. The point is that the original revolution took sacrifices, and that was inspiring to not only to look back on but to those who joined the cause.

moberley
12-03-2007, 05:48 AM
The problem is, this was started, and pledges were taken, as a grassroots effort. To then convert this project into a launching pad for a private company is disingenous. The idea was that the organizers would help organize the project because they supported Ron Paul, not because they wanted to make profit off of Ron Paul supporters.

If the organizers want to start a company, they should do so independently of the grassroots. If the grassroots decided that a private company was worth hiring and chose it that would be one thing, but to start a project as a grassroots effort, take pledges, and then co-opt it for profit and to launch a company is highly immoral in my opinion.

Also, the current plan is very wasteful. We have many, many people who produce videos for free and post them online. There is no need for "videographers". Many grassroots supporters would immediate create videos of the blimp and rallies on their own. Why do we need two managers??!? Why do we need a full time web tech when many people would volunteer for the job? What exactly will Trevor and Elijah working on for 40+ hours a week, because media interviews sure aint it.

The original plan was to rent a blimp for the month. That is what people signed up for, and that is what should be done. Maybe one person to coordinate volunteer efforts could get living expenses, but this is wasteful.

We did not donate money to help launch a company, we donated it to pay for the blimp and to promote Ron Paul!!!

It bothers me when people refer to "the grassroots" deciding something or other. The grassroots is a linguistic shorthand (just like "society") and as such doesn't make decisions. It is possible to determine that the grassroots supports something post facto by observing the individual choices of the people involved, but that isn't the same thing. Even a brief period of reading of discussions among identified supporters of Ron Paul will quickly reveal that opinions are very divergent.

If Liberty Political Advertising succeeds it will do so because individuals have chosen to do business with them. If people choose not to do business then it will fail. That is the only way to logically determine what the "grassroots" has decided.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:48 AM
ust a link you may find interesting: http://www.charitynavigator.org/inde...t.view&cpid=48

Look at the scores for different percentages of money spent on administration. As it currently stands, at a rate of $400,000 for a month of sponsorship there is $50,000 left after the blimp itself is paid for. That means the total percentage of incoming money spent on lawyers, employee pay, computer and web technology, extras like media packets and flight jackets comes to 8%. If we were a charity we would be getting stellar ratings.

I am not telling anyone not to ask questions. I am just pointing out that we are well within the administrative cost guidelines for highly rated charities.

OK but why not ASK if anyone can do for free?

If there was a post looking for volunteer cameraman that is experienced and has film credits that will volunteer for expenses paid for a month ? I would say you would get however many you need. I for one know a few documentary workers who are RP fans that could do this for expenses and small stipend (probably a 1/4 or 1/5 of there 1000 a week.

Listen to Ron Paul let the free market decide, offer the option



I will be investigating this further and getting back to you with better information about the videography.

macdee
12-03-2007, 05:49 AM
Mark... We've all already given to the Ron Paul campaign. The Ron Paul Blimp project is for us that have made the maximum contribution. I have only 1,000 dollars left for the BIG TEA PARTY 07. With all the negative questions you have concerning the Ron Paul Blimp project, I had mistakenly though that you were contributing to this project. My mistake.

Mark me down on your list of sponsors for the Ron Paul R3VOLUTION blimp!

Man from La Mancha
12-03-2007, 05:50 AM
Without talent and hard-work there is no blimp. The blimp would not be where it is now, in fact it would probably not have even entered our imaginations were it not for Trevor and Elijah. I don't think a little pay so they can relax and focus is a bad thing. They've shown they have the talent to make this dream become a reality and I think swapping them out for independently wealthy volunteers over a few thousand when we are talking about a $400,000 project (that will generate millions more in free advertising) is a bad idea.
Thank you for the answer, but I would think that people that have proved themselves my becoming independantly wealthy in their chosen occupation would be the most idea ones, I agree the FEC pro is worth it, but don't these already rich lawers care as much for Freedom as we do?. I will support this project no matter what is decided, but I would think the PR benifits of having top people working for nothing would creat a large impact.

.

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 05:52 AM
I have been working closely with Trevor and Elijah for days and can tell you that the conference calls, text editing, legal consulting start in the AM and run into the AM daily. Trevor is engaged with several phone and in person interviews on a daily basis as well as doing the interfacing with the graphics people and the blimp people and the media people and the flight plan people, etc... So far I have yet to see either of them work what appears to be less than a 15 hour day.


I dont think Trevor and Elijah are the big worry that people are discussing, some might think 1000 is a little much but I SUPPORT these two. It's all the extra staff hired when there was...
NO CALL FOR VOLUNTEERS.

Please we need to cut fat, these two are hardworking longstanding supporters, where are the others resumes? What's with assistants not being able to be volunteer, why same salary 1k ?

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:52 AM
i will speak my mind freely now, This exactly why elijah held off telling us about this for profit business venture 3 weeks ago when he raised the amount you could pledge. and its also why you took down the transparency page from the main site. until all the emails went out and the pledges were fulfilled.

You guys knew the grassroots would never promote this bullsh&t idea if we knew we had to pay a EXTRA 150k for a advertising agency.


AM I RIGHT? or am i right?


*edit this another reason they both avoided posting here and answering questions.


The current amount of sponsorship is less than 10% of what was pledged so all pledges have not been fulfilled.

The "Transparency" and "Why not a PAC" pages both were removed accidentally when the flight plan was posted it must have caused the page to revert to the earlier version. Elijah and Trevor went offline at 4:30 PM right before those 2 items disappeared and I wanted to let them sleep so I just informed them by email and it should be fixed later this morning.


They haven't been posting here because they have been so busy. The only reason I have been able to do it is because I haven't slept since yesterday AM because I thought it was worth the investment to answer people's questions.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:55 AM
Will you post a list of sponsors, of course with each one's permission, so we can see who has pledged for the Ron Paul Blimp?

That is in the works and will be programmed as soon as the absolute essentials are all set.

vodalian
12-03-2007, 05:55 AM
The current amount of sponsorship is less than 10% of what was pledged so all pledges have not been fulfilled.

The "Transparency" and "Why not a PAC" pages both were removed accidentally when the flight plan was posted it must have caused the page to revert to the earlier version. Elijah and Trevor went offline at 4:30 PM right before those 2 items disappeared and I wanted to let them sleep so I just informed them by email and it should be fixed later this morning.


They haven't been posting here because they have been so busy. The only reason I have been able to do it is because I haven't slept since yesterday AM because I thought it was worth the investment to answer people's questions.

Well, hopefully your 1k per mo webmaster get's it sorted soon. :)

Mark
12-03-2007, 05:56 AM
Mark... We've all already given to the Ron Paul campaign. The Ron Paul Blimp project is for us that have made the maximum contribution. I have only 1,000 dollars left for the BIG TEA PARTY 07. With all the negative questions you have concerning the Ron Paul Blimp project, I had mistakenly though that you were contributing to this project. My mistake.

Mark me down on your list of sponsors for the Ron Paul R3VOLUTION blimp!

Who said I wasn't? I didn't. See, people follow me around and talk junk to me.

I PM'd you.

Excuse me if I'd like some clear facts before I give my money to someone.

And please quit trying to antagonize me. Thank you!

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:57 AM
why was the cost of the sign initially included/free and now is not? (because the guy that owns the blimp is a RP supporter).

Why was it initially supposed to be painted directly on the blimp and now is a banner to be draped over it?

What would the retro-fit time be to put a scrolling banner on instead or later?

-n

btw: could you put the detailed research page back up? I wanted to go over some things in that again and cache a copy!

thanks,

-n

Made a note and will look into it after some sleep.

voytechs
12-03-2007, 05:57 AM
***Warning, my own personal opinions factor in to this message highly***

Without talent and hard-work there is no blimp. The blimp would not be where it is now, in fact it would probably not have even entered our imaginations were it not for Trevor and Elijah. I don't think a little pay so they can relax and focus is a bad thing. They've shown they have the talent to make this dream become a reality and I think swapping them out for independently wealthy volunteers over a few thousand when we are talking about a $400,000 project (that will generate millions more in free advertising) is a bad idea.

I agree with you. Lets get'er done.

For those that feel very strongly against paid for profit organizations, feel free to start you own not-for profit competing company, and let the market decide. You have 7 days to get off the ground.

Otherwise, there isn't that much time left until Wednesday and its time to fulfill our pledges to make this baby fly. I especially like the idea of a second blimp at the superbowl. Lets not get too anal about this. You buy bumper stickers, yard signs, RP clothing, billboards from various advertisers, and these are all for profit companies. Now we have a major advertising company, dedicated 100% to RP, and thinking really really big with ways to promote Ron Paul, as cheaply as possible. All you got to do is buy their product which is in its purity "promote Ron Paul from the air outside of MSM control" and get "Air Force Ron #1" off the ground.

Man from La Mancha
12-03-2007, 05:58 AM
They haven't been posting here because they have been so busy. The only reason I have been able to do it is because I haven't slept since yesterday AM because I thought it was worth the investment to answer people's questions.Thank you so much it helps tremendously! Could you ask for volunteers that can contact the Company 24 hrs day to answer questions 24 hr a day in this forum so then you too can get some sleep.:)

.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 05:58 AM
I bet that a lot of the naysayers might relax if there was some act of faith from the the official campaign. Have you guys convinced the official campaign to pay for your services? Even if they only bought 2.7 minutes as a symbolic gesture it might help you a lot.

To the best of my knowledge it would joepardize everything we are doing if an official campaign for any official were to become involved. I will check to make sure I answered accurately later.

Dutch
12-03-2007, 06:01 AM
The transparency page is still there - there's just no link to it.

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php

Dutch

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 06:04 AM
[I]Well, hopefully your 1k per mo webmaster get's it sorted soon. [/I

Its 1k a week

Didn't you hear, the free market does not apply to RP forums subsection Blimp

(Meaning their were no bids although its a reasonable guess the lowest bid would be $1)

BrianK
12-03-2007, 06:04 AM
To the best of my knowledge it would joepardize everything we are doing if an official campaign for any official were to become involved. I will check to make sure I answered accurately later.

Thank you. Please keep in mind, I'm not saying they have any involvement in the running of your company. But if you are an advertising company it seems logical that they can legally purchase your services just as they purchase TV/Radio ads. I know you have some good lawyers that know much more about this than me though.

John P Slevin
12-03-2007, 06:05 AM
It is absolutely absurd to question the motivations of those running the blimp project.

The consistent complaint here is based on ignorance of campaign finance law. I have years of experience with PACs. Anyone can check the facts I'll recite below at fec.gov

The ignorance of those who seek to belittle the Liberty Advertising people simply is stunning. A PAC CANNOT donate more than 5,000.00 to the Ron Paul campaign. A PAC CANNOT accept more than 2,300.00 per donor, AND, depending on which kind of PAC was formed, the money given could COUNT AGAINST money which otherwise could be donated to Ron Paul's campaign.

The reason(s) for the change in media messages, the logos on the blimp, also is caused by federal campaign law. Law dictates that one CANNOT list Ron Paul's campaign website and say it is not an ad for the campaign. It IS. The law sees it that way.

What those involved with Liberty Advertising have done, what they are offering, is a brilliant solution to a problem all of us have. They've got a kick-ass team over there. Bringing Brad Smith on board is simply the BEST way to proceed.

All those questioning motives because Liberty Advertising is a for profit company ought to ask themselves a basic question. If people wanted to fleece supporters, couldn't they do so by posing as a non profit?

OF COURSE THEY COULD. PACs pay money too...salaries, bonuses, etc, anything is allowed, as long as it is reported.

Those who have criticized the blimp project should read something, learn something before they speak.

American campaign finance laws make it very difficult for people to get together and throw the bums out. That is the whole point of campaign finance law, to protect those in power.

I sleep better each night knowing that people like Trevor et al exist, that they have the desire, imagination, spark, ambition and the pure ability to attempt something like this.

More power to them.

The decision to create a new company in order to put the blimp in the air, to put it in real simple terms, is brilliant.

Mark
12-03-2007, 06:05 AM
See mac, I asked a question at 6:21, it's now 7:05, and still no answer, so,

I suspect she missed my question about pledging to not get paid until the blimp is paid for:


Today, 06:21 AM

Would you ask all involved to put off getting paid until we see real results first? (blimp is in the air)

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 06:05 AM
Without talent and hard-work there is no blimp. The blimp would not be where it is now, in fact it would probably not have even entered our imaginations were it not for Trevor and Elijah. I don't think a little pay so they can relax and focus is a bad thing. They've shown they have the talent to make this dream become a reality and I think swapping them out for independently wealthy volunteers over a few thousand when we are talking about a $400,000 project (that will generate millions more in free advertising) is a bad idea.


Ok obviously there is a large discrepancy betweeen the two camps. Baby steps? Offer the webmaster job for expenses/ small stipend see if anyone bites?
Offer cameramen for volunteer/ small stipend plus expenses ?
Have direct link to transparency page on web site?

Please take back to group/ trevor/ whoever

Sorry if come across as angry but whether you're expenses are justifiable or not, you need to get the blimp to fly= need support. A way to get support is work with RP forums. Independently wealthy volunteers ? Alot of people are wealthy but would donate a full month or two of their life to RP. Super tuesday is two months from now. Many people would use up vacation/ take leave/ sabbatical without having to be wealthy. The point is that the original revolution took sacrifices, and that was inspiring to not only to look back on but to those who joined the cause.



Sacrifices have been made and will continue to be made. One point that is more emotional than business oriented is the fact that all those who were involved in this project (way before it became an LLC) were constantly bombarded with threatening emails and PM's or people who didn't like some little item who bombed their email from multiple addresses with hate mail, or those who posted rude messages on forums repeatedly. There is a lot of pressure when you take this much responsibility. That is what those involved with this have done, take on a lot of personal responsibility and put their reputations on the line to get this blimp into the air.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 06:08 AM
Thank you for the answer, but I would think that people that have proved themselves my becoming independantly wealthy in their chosen occupation would be the most idea ones, I agree the FEC pro is worth it, but don't these already rich lawers care as much for Freedom as we do?. I will support this project no matter what is decided, but I would think the PR benifits of having top people working for nothing would creat a large impact.

.

This topic has generated much discussion on our end and will continue to do so. I will be sure to take all of your concerns to future discussions of payment.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 06:09 AM
Well, hopefully your 1k per mo webmaster get's it sorted soon. :)

Thanks :-P

Man from La Mancha
12-03-2007, 06:10 AM
I sleep better each night knowing that people like Trevor et al exist, that they have the desire, imagination, spark, ambition and the pure ability to attempt something like this.

More power to them.

The decision to create a new company in order to put the blimp in the air, to put it in real simple terms, is brilliant.Welcome aboard, hope you will post more. I think the no. 1 problem is a lack of communication to the people that will be donating and answering their objections.

.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 06:11 AM
Thank you so much it helps tremendously! Could you ask for volunteers that can contact the Company 24 hrs day to answer questions 24 hr a day in this forum so then you too can get some sleep.:)

.

I'll see. Liberty Advertising has to be careful about who can reply to their emails and speak on their behalf. Not that I'm so great but it takes some screening. :-)

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 06:14 AM
See mac, I asked a question at 6:21, it's now 7:05, and still no answer, so,

I suspect she missed my question about pledging to not get paid until the blimp is paid for:


Today, 06:21 AM

Would you ask all involved to put off getting paid until we see real results first? (blimp is in the air)


Got it and I'll ask.

tremendoustie
12-03-2007, 06:14 AM
It bothers me when people refer to "the grassroots" deciding something or other. The grassroots is a linguistic shorthand (just like "society") and as such doesn't make decisions. It is possible to determine that the grassroots supports something post facto by observing the individual choices of the people involved, but that isn't the same thing. Even a brief period of reading of discussions among identified supporters of Ron Paul will quickly reveal that opinions are very divergent.

If Liberty Political Advertising succeeds it will do so because individuals have chosen to do business with them. If people choose not to do business then it will fail. That is the only way to logically determine what the "grassroots" has decided.

Fair enough. It is true, though, that in a grassroots situation oftentimes one person or a few people agree to take the lead in developing a particular idea, with the support of others. My point is that it is dishonest to those people who supported the leaders in developing an idea, if those leaders turn around and use their position to do something entirely different. If they had been clear about their intentions from the beginning, people would have the option of choosing different leaders. Moreover, this case is especially flagrant, because many of the people who pledged based on the earlier idea will go ahead and donate money without realizing the whole plan has changed.

That said, it's good to hear that Trevor et al are working so hard, and I thank them for their efforts. I still don't agree with using this as a platform to launch a company, but it's good to have some transparency. I think it is very important that on the website a clear description of what the responsibilities for each position will be, and what will occupy those 40+ hours be included. Also, I think there are definitely positions that could be eliminated. A clear business case should be outlined for each position, and salaries should be commensurate with the duties performed. A clear reason should be given why the particular position could not be handled by the grassroots, if it cannot.

We should have a discussion about each position and whether we need it to be a paid staff position, or if it should exist at all. Normally, as a private company, the leaders would have the right to run it as they see fit, but since this was started by co-opting a grassroots effort, I think at the very least you have a responsibility to let the supporters have some control over what functions should and should not be performed by paid staff.

macdee
12-03-2007, 06:14 AM
I was cooking my diner. Did I miss anything?

vodalian
12-03-2007, 06:15 AM
Thanks :-P

Hey, don't thank me, thank the donors! :)

moberley
12-03-2007, 06:15 AM
I expect that you already plan to do so, but do you plan to include the responses to questions you're answering on the official Liberty Advertising website? I don't mean immediately as I realize some of the answers are still developing and that you're making this effort by delaying sleep. But it would be nice.

Kudos for your public web forum diplomacy. A skill that must not be underrated.

Man from La Mancha
12-03-2007, 06:16 AM
Sacrifices have been made and will continue to be made. One point that is more emotional than business oriented is the fact that all those who were involved in this project (way before it became an LLC) were constantly bombarded with threatening emails and PM's or people who didn't like some little item who bombed their email from multiple addresses with hate mail, or those who posted rude messages on forums repeatedly. There is a lot of pressure when you take this much responsibility. That is what those involved with this have done, take on a lot of personal responsibility and put their reputations on the line to get this blimp into the air.I hope you realize they are probably trolls or people that are haters of Ron just trying to derail all your efforts.


.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 06:16 AM
Fair enough. It is true, though, that in a grassroots situation oftentimes one person or a few people agree to take the lead in developing a particular idea, with the support of others. My point is that it is dishonest to those people who supported the leaders in developing an idea, if those leaders turn around and use their position to do something entirely different. If they had been clear about their intentions from the beginning, people would have the option of choosing different leaders. Moreover, this case is especially flagrant, because many of the people who pledged based on the earlier idea will go ahead and donate money without realizing the whole plan has changed.

That said, it's good to hear that Trevor et al are working so hard, and I thank them for their efforts. I still don't agree with using this as a platform to launch a company, but it's good to have some transparency. I think it is very important that on the website a clear description of what the responsibilities for each position will be, and what will occupy those 40+ hours be included. Also, I think there are definitely positions that could be eliminated. A clear business case should be outlined for each position, and salaries should be commensurate with the duties performed. A clear reason should be given why the particular position could not be handled by the grassroots, if it cannot.

We should have a discussion about each position and whether we need it to be a paid staff position, or if it should exist at all. Normally, as a private company, the leaders would have the right to run it as they see fit, but since this was started by co-opting a grassroots effort, I think at the very least you have a responsibility to let the supporters have some control over what functions should and should not be performed by paid staff.



Look back a few posts and you'll see a much more eloquent post than what I am capable of right now explaining how the changes had to be made to comply with FEC laws.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 06:17 AM
I was cooking my diner. Did I miss anything?



Me drooling on the keyboard. I am going to bed in a minute.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 06:19 AM
I expect that you already plan to do so, but do you plan to include the responses to questions you're answering on the official Liberty Advertising website? I don't mean immediately as I realize some of the answers are still developing and that you're making this effort by delaying sleep. But it would be nice.

Kudos for your public web forum diplomacy. A skill that must not be underrated.


I am taking notes as I read questions of things that need to be answered and we very well might include some of them in the FAQ section. We have been so busy writing the essentials that we haven't had much time for extras yet.

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 06:19 AM
Me drooling on the keyboard. I am going to bed in a minute.


Get plenty of rest and sweet dreams

Thank you for everything your doing. If anything now you have the most important job as communication and understanding will lead to support and funding.

Thanks for replying to our questions

BrianK
12-03-2007, 06:20 AM
Me drooling on the keyboard. I am going to bed in a minute.

Sleep when the blimps up!!

I KEED, I KEED. I'm also quite envious as I have to go start the work day, having wasted my entire night chatting on the forums.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 06:20 AM
I'm leaving. Will try to catch up on questions this afternoon.

voytechs
12-03-2007, 06:22 AM
I sleep better each night knowing that people like Trevor et al exist, that they have the desire, imagination, spark, ambition and the pure ability to attempt something like this.

More power to them.

The decision to create a new company in order to put the blimp in the air, to put it in real simple terms, is brilliant.

I totally agree. A full time professional advertising company that is going to come up with new innovative ways to promote Ron Paul on massive scale. Its unbelievable, I'm so excited.

Guys think of it this way. We're evolving our grassroots efforts to a higher plane of professionalism. Our competition already uses these kind of for-profit advertising companies, but they spend dozens of millions of dollars more on them with much smaller results. We may have a better advertising company then Ron Paul's campaign itself.

Mark
12-03-2007, 06:24 AM
Got it and I'll ask.


Thanks Mckarnin, I just personally feel that the blimp flying asap is most important.

If I see a blimp flying, I'll be much more likely to donate than before it flys.

You know, no one pays for a pair of jeans before the factory is making them. ;)

Dutch
12-03-2007, 06:24 AM
It is absolutely absurd to question the motivations of those running the blimp project.

The consistent complaint here is based on ignorance of campaign finance law. I have years of experience with PACs. Anyone can check the facts I'll recite below at fec.gov

The ignorance of those who seek to belittle the Liberty Advertising people simply is stunning. A PAC CANNOT donate more than 5,000.00 to the Ron Paul campaign. A PAC CANNOT accept more than 2,300.00 per donor, AND, depending on which kind of PAC was formed, the money given could COUNT AGAINST money which otherwise could be donated to Ron Paul's campaign.

The reason(s) for the change in media messages, the logos on the blimp, also is caused by federal campaign law. Law dictates that one CANNOT list Ron Paul's campaign website and say it is not an ad for the campaign. It IS. The law sees it that way.

What those involved with Liberty Advertising have done, what they are offering, is a brilliant solution to a problem all of us have. They've got a kick-ass team over there. Bringing Brad Smith on board is simply the BEST way to proceed.

All those questioning motives because Liberty Advertising is a for profit company ought to ask themselves a basic question. If people wanted to fleece supporters, couldn't they do so by posing as a non profit?

OF COURSE THEY COULD. PACs pay money too...salaries, bonuses, etc, anything is allowed, as long as it is reported.

Those who have criticized the blimp project should read something, learn something before they speak.

American campaign finance laws make it very difficult for people to get together and throw the bums out. That is the whole point of campaign finance law, to protect those in power.

I sleep better each night knowing that people like Trevor et al exist, that they have the desire, imagination, spark, ambition and the pure ability to attempt something like this.

More power to them.

The decision to create a new company in order to put the blimp in the air, to put it in real simple terms, is brilliant.

This post needs to be a sticky.
Welcome to the forums, sir. You are most welcome.

Dutch

moberley
12-03-2007, 06:31 AM
Fair enough. It is true, though, that in a grassroots situation oftentimes one person or a few people agree to take the lead in developing a particular idea, with the support of others. My point is that it is dishonest to those people who supported the leaders in developing an idea, if those leaders turn around and use their position to do something entirely different. If they had been clear about their intentions from the beginning, people would have the option of choosing different leaders. Moreover, this case is especially flagrant, because many of the people who pledged based on the earlier idea will go ahead and donate money without realizing the whole plan has changed.

I understand this point and I wasn't really responding to that part of your earlier comment. I disagree but frankly my disagreement appears to stem from a different choice of base principles and therefore I see nothing either of us can gain from arguing it in this forum.


We should have a discussion about each position and whether we need it to be a paid staff position, or if it should exist at all. Normally, as a private company, the leaders would have the right to run it as they see fit, but since this was started by co-opting a grassroots effort, I think at the very least you have a responsibility to let the supporters have some control over what functions should and should not be performed by paid staff.

This seems like a reasonable request, and is probably good politics. I have seen several people make a similar point, and I suspect that Liberty Advertising will discuss it. I'm a third party observer (and as a foreigner I'm not legally allowed to do business with them anyway) so I can't speak for them. I am glad to see that some of the disputes are being aired more peaceably as this project develops.

orion846
12-03-2007, 06:35 AM
i don't have the patience to read this entire thread, but i need to say that as a professional webmaster, someone who puts food on the table through this trade... the idea that you're paying someone $1000/week to make updates to what i see at www.ronpaulblimp.com seems to be the absolute dream job of a life-time. let's forget for a second taht a ton of people here would do it for free... the idea that that site requires $1000/week of work is LUDICROUS... INSANE... RIDICULOUS! until you axe at least THAT position, you cannot possibly expect any of us to take you seriously and think this has anything to do with ron paul as opposed to making someone $

tremendoustie
12-03-2007, 06:37 AM
*redundant, deleted

vodalian
12-03-2007, 06:37 AM
i don't have the patience to read this entire thread, but i need to say that as a professional webmaster, someone who puts food on the table through this trade... the idea that you're paying someone $1000/week to make updates to what i see at www.ronpaulblimp.com seems to be the absolute dream job of a life-time. let's forget for a second taht a ton of people here would do it for free... the idea that that site requires $1000/week of work is LUDICROUS... INSANE... RIDICULOUS! until you axe at least THAT position, you cannot possibly expect any of us to take you seriously and think this has anything to do with ron paul as opposed to making someone $

Exactly, that's the problem. It appears like they are bloating almost every cost.. over $1,000 for jackets?! give me a break.

I'm also a webmaster on the side and boy, what I'de give to make 4k per month...

Just imagine if this 4k per person/month was all spent on Ron Paul rallies and other various events..

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 06:41 AM
It seems to me that if they would OFFER the positions ASK for volunteers that would help immensly in solving this division.

Let's leave the no-bid contracts to Bush and Halliburton especially when some people want to get paid $1 for helping (silly rules make you take a salary but it can be a dollar)

Man from La Mancha
12-03-2007, 06:43 AM
Exactly, that's the problem. It appears like they are bloating almost every cost.. over $1,000 for jackets?! give me a break.

I'm also a webmaster on the side and boy, what I'de give to make 4k per month...

Just imagine if this 4k per person/month was spent on Ron Paul rallies..I can see the jackets, it's not a bad price for 30. I want one too. They should give out exclusive jackets for different levels of giving. But the web thing?

.

RP4Pres2008
12-03-2007, 06:43 AM
Why hasn't Trevor posted on the forums to explain why he used the grassroots to start a business?

Does he feel ashamed?

jcims
12-03-2007, 06:45 AM
i don't have the patience to read this entire thread, but i need to say that as a professional webmaster, someone who puts food on the table through this trade... the idea that you're paying someone $1000/week to make updates to what i see at www.ronpaulblimp.com seems to be the absolute dream job of a life-time. let's forget for a second taht a ton of people here would do it for free... the idea that that site requires $1000/week of work is LUDICROUS... INSANE... RIDICULOUS! until you axe at least THAT position, you cannot possibly expect any of us to take you seriously and think this has anything to do with ron paul as opposed to making someone $

It's more than just updates...they are planning live GPS feeds, streaming video through load-balanced EVDO connections, etc. In all seriousness, if you started today, how long would it take you to get that developed, QA'd, load tested and stabilized on production systems? How much babysitting would a system like that take, and what do you do when suddenly the hosting provider opens the trap door on you? Remember all the venom in the TeaParty threads when GoDaddy was going limp on Trevor? Think how bad it would be here? Full time webmaster is an insurance policy against embarrassing outages, and i don't know many capable ones that would earn much less than $50K in a commercial setting.

If a competent webmaster offered to do the work for the Blimp project for less money, i'm sure they wouldn't force the full salary upon them.

Ozwest
12-03-2007, 06:47 AM
RP4Pres2008.

Stop playing the fool.

jcims
12-03-2007, 06:48 AM
Why hasn't Trevor posted on the forums to explain why he used the grassroots to start a business?

Does he feel ashamed?

Possibly because the answer has already been provided a number of times.

RP4Pres2008
12-03-2007, 06:51 AM
RP4Pres2008.

Stop playing the fool.

Explain this...

RP4Pres2008
12-03-2007, 06:51 AM
Possibly because the answer has already been provided a number of times.

And that answer is?

OferNave
12-03-2007, 06:52 AM
It's more than just updates...they are planning live GPS feeds, streaming video through load-balanced EVDO connections, etc. In all seriousness, if you started today, how long would it take you to get that developed, QA'd, load tested and stabilized on production systems? How much babysitting would a system like that take, and what do you do when suddenly the hosting provider opens the trap door on you? Remember all the venom in the TeaParty threads when GoDaddy was going limp on Trevor? Think how bad it would be here? Full time webmaster is an insurance policy against embarrassing outages, and i don't know many capable ones that would earn much less than $50K in a commercial setting.

Exactly.

Everyone bitching about the number of employees, or the salary, or why do we need a full time this or that, why can't volunteers do it - doesn't know the first damn thing about starting a company. I've been a software engineer for eleven years, almost entirely at internet startups, technology and entrepreneurship is my passion. I completely understand this situation, and the ignorance being displayed by those who don't would be perfectly excusable if not for the fact that it is so frikkin VEHEMENT.

Can I get some shout outs from folks who have been involved in creating businesses and know what I'm talking about?

orion846
12-03-2007, 06:57 AM
It's more than just updates...they are planning live GPS feeds, streaming video through load-balanced EVDO connections, etc. In all seriousness, if you started today, how long would it take you to get that developed, QA'd, load tested and stabilized on production systems? How much babysitting would a system like that take, and what do you do when suddenly the hosting provider opens the trap door on you? Remember all the venom in the TeaParty threads when GoDaddy was going limp on Trevor? Think how bad it would be here? Full time webmaster is an insurance policy against embarrassing outages, and i don't know many capable ones that would earn much less than $50K in a commercial setting.

If a competent webmaster offered to do the work for the Blimp project for less money, i'm sure they wouldn't force the full salary upon them.

I have the skills and portfolio to prove I can do all of this. My current job requires I develop .NET/SQL2k5 along with content management systems and social networking components for hundreds of sites. I also am responsible (a team of 3) for keeping these 200-something sites online 24/7 - I would do this site for $500/week EASILY (even that's too much, I'd probably go lower if someone gave me a cool speech about Ron Paul and freedom) - PM me if this seriously about getting paul elected, and not about abusing the enthusiasm of the grassroots.

Ozwest
12-03-2007, 07:07 AM
RP4Pres2008.

I'm 49, and have been a hands - on worker with my mostly younger employees my whole life.

I have experience, and respect.

Mark
12-03-2007, 07:08 AM
Can I get some shout outs from folks who have been involved in creating businesses and know what I'm talking about?



Never like this one where the rules completely changed as soon as real money came in.

I believe the answer to the question about the reason for the business was answered
when an article or something was posted that Trevor had the idea for a company
after the Nov 5th event, maybe before, or after.

I'm not sure on the exact time, but, I think the Blimp just happened to work
in league with his planned company.

He was going to start a political ad company, and a great vehicle for an ad is a Blimp.

Thus, The Ron Paul Blimp.

I think the idea for a company was first, the blimp second,

and the LLC when it was deemed capable to work that way.

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 07:12 AM
Exactly.

Everyone bitching about the number of employees, or the salary, or why do we need a full time this or that, why can't volunteers do it - doesn't know the first damn thing about starting a company. I've been a software engineer for eleven years, almost entirely at internet startups, technology and entrepreneurship is my passion. I completely understand this situation, and the ignorance being displayed by those who don't would be perfectly excusable if not for the fact that it is so frikkin VEHEMENT.


I've been involved in a technology startup actually and in order for the company to succeed we needed to not take salaries for a few months, for some of us that meant moving into friends/ back home/ sleeping at office/ eating ramen. But thats beside the point...

It's not the amount of employees it the fact their not asking for grassroots (aka free/ survival expenses) help. If the company is unable to find said positions then yes hire people but FIRST see if you can recruit qualified volunteers.

I mean we are grassroots funding no 2 mil starting venture capital with a few mil cash injections


Nothing personal about this guy but I need an example from the website

Joe Amidon
Retired Attorney
Assistant Manager of Company


Joe is an attorney who practiced for 25 years in Wisconsin before
retiring to Asheville, NC. He managed the legal division of holding
company operating a dozen subsidiary businesses in the real estate
investment, construction, demolition and waste disposal fields,
supervising in house counsel and outside litigation. He also conducted
federal and state environmental, and other business related litigation
as trial counsel. Since coming to Asheville, he has done some legal
consulting work and built spec homes as a contractor.

Joe joined the company because sponsorship political advertising on blimps
and other ideas the company is floating sounded like to much fun to miss
out on.


What is he doing for the company?, he is retired does he require 4k a month for what he does? Was there NO similarly qualified person who would do this for free/ expenses or a small stipend????? Did you bother to ask ?

Probably get flamed for this but cmon 4k and we have past FEC chairman, and a First Amendment Attorney on retainer, a full time paralegal and now a retired lawyer.

Sure hes a great guy and maybe we need him and he is worth way more than 4k hes going to be paid a month but could we know why

Ozwest
12-03-2007, 07:14 AM
Too many are over analyzing this, and do not understand the the restrictions involved in running a small business.

These guys are doing all the right things.

Mark
12-03-2007, 07:17 AM
Too many are over analyzing this, and do not understand the the restrictions involved in running a small business.

These guys are doing all the right things.

Ozwest, maybe you know. Didn't Trevor have the idea of starting a company first, before the Blimp Project?

Ozwest
12-03-2007, 07:18 AM
This is a small business. It is a risky adventure.

To somehow think this is a scheme to rip-off people is ridiculous.

Lighten up people.

Ozwest
12-03-2007, 07:22 AM
If Trevor wanted to make big bickies ripping people off, he would not do it in such a manner.

You guys are going to fuck yourselves.

RP4Pres2008
12-03-2007, 07:29 AM
If Trevor wanted to make big bickies ripping people off, he would not do it in such a manner.

You guys are going to fuck yourselves.

Take it easy man. You're starting to go overboard here. People obviously have questions/doubts, let them be asked.

Mark
12-03-2007, 07:31 AM
If Trevor wanted to make big bickies ripping people off, he would not do it in such a manner.

You guys are going to fuck yourselves.

You gotta admit though Ozwest, it was brilliant to start his company this way.

OferNave
12-03-2007, 07:32 AM
Ozwest, maybe you know. Didn't Trevor have the idea of starting a company first, before the Blimp Project?

Please don't waste our time with conspiracy theories. Stick to legit questions about future plans, and stop insinuating. I don't understand how you can pretend to be trying to accomplish anything positive like this, and if that isn't what you're trying to accomplish, you will cease to get responses.

OferNave
12-03-2007, 07:34 AM
Too many are over analyzing this, and do not understand the the restrictions involved in running a small business.

They think it's possible to manage something this massive and complex by public committee. :) "I think we should have a discussion about each staff position." The insanity is staggering.

Mark
12-03-2007, 07:40 AM
Please don't waste our time with conspiracy theories. Stick to legit questions about future plans, and stop insinuating. I don't understand how you can pretend to be trying to accomplish anything positive like this, and if that isn't what you're trying to accomplish, you will cease to get responses.

The term "conspiracy theories" is well known as a COINTELPRO method.

It doesn't work anymore.

Asking if the idea for the Political Advertising Company was conceived
before he "floated" the idea around for a blimp

is a very legitimate one because he didn't tell us that.

In fact, if it is true,

he used the grassroots to start his company with a hugely expensive project.

Ozwest
12-03-2007, 07:52 AM
Umm, I am an old pro at running a small business, and it ain't easy.

Most people don't understand the phone calls, writing. planning, that goes with early mornings and sleepless nights. I ran my business without any Holidays for 15 years.

Now I'm bullshitting on this forum, chilling and self sustaining.

The overheads proposed by these talented people are miniscule. Stop procrastinating, and get on with it.

The blimp is magical.

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 07:53 AM
Can I get some shout outs from folks who have been involved in creating businesses and know what I'm talking about?

I directed the IS operations for medium-sized companies for 20 years before retiring. Based on salaries I was paying when I retired this summer, $52K for a dedicated webmaster/internet administrator would be very reasonable. We were paying ours about $60K, plus a full benefit package and I felt like I was getting a bit of a bargain.

Ozwest
12-03-2007, 08:00 AM
These guys are putting their ass on the line not for a year, but at best 2 or 3 months.

These long-term analogies just don't hold up.

tangent4ronpaul
12-03-2007, 08:03 AM
It is absolutely absurd to question the motivations of those running the blimp project.

The consistent complaint here is based on ignorance of campaign finance law. I have years of experience with PACs. Anyone can check the facts I'll recite below at fec.gov

The ignorance of those who seek to belittle the Liberty Advertising people simply is stunning. A PAC CANNOT donate more than 5,000.00 to the Ron Paul campaign. A PAC CANNOT accept more than 2,300.00 per donor, AND, depending on which kind of PAC was formed, the money given could COUNT AGAINST money which otherwise could be donated to Ron Paul's campaign
.

PROVE IT! - I WANT LINKS!!!!

-n

tangent4ronpaul
12-03-2007, 08:05 AM
Your other argument has already been debunked!

-n

twdahm
12-03-2007, 08:06 AM
The interesting thing is once the pledges got up to 450,000's all the sudden they started taking salaries before that there was no talk about it.....

(personally I think alot of the pledges were Huck supporters that had no intent on giving just trying to get the number up)

Ozwest
12-03-2007, 08:09 AM
Jesus Christ,

Rip off Ron Paul supporters.

No country to escape to.

Cause they're everywhere!

Michigan11
12-03-2007, 08:10 AM
Exactly.

Everyone bitching about the number of employees, or the salary, or why do we need a full time this or that, why can't volunteers do it - doesn't know the first damn thing about starting a company. I've been a software engineer for eleven years, almost entirely at internet startups, technology and entrepreneurship is my passion. I completely understand this situation, and the ignorance being displayed by those who don't would be perfectly excusable if not for the fact that it is so frikkin VEHEMENT.

Can I get some shout outs from folks who have been involved in creating businesses and know what I'm talking about?


(Please Read)
Another startup, business owner here, of more than 13 years.

Unless you have experience in starting up something similar, you have no idea what is required to achieve a project like this. This is what these guys(trevor and whoever) are finding out right now. Along the way, this man discovered his unique passion and talent for promoting, I believe, and his soul is alive, and he is running with the ideas (our ideas). Lets use this man's passion for our cause.

Sit down and take the time to figure out exactly how you could do this project. Go into the fine details: research the laws, try securing a short term contract with a blimp company(mention you have no money, but you are hoping it will be there). Try organizing in disciplined fashion all logistics: when - timing, where - air restrictions, weather, how - donations, accepting credit cards, wire transfers, tax forms, laws, accounting, etc......(i would have to spend a week just to figure out the questions I should be asking, let alone finding answers/solutions to impediments).

Now, how are you and a couple of your (volunteer) friends, going to handle all this work, in between your own personal matters, work, kids, family, whatever it is you do and your friends do. This isn't a job in which you know what to do or are told what to do in simple order. That is not how this works or any business for that matter. The 'unknown' possibilities are infinite.

I am semi-new here, and I am only following what I read and what my gut instinct is telling me. Trevor did a fantastic job setting up the 5th site, and he did a fantastic job setting up the tea party site. He alone didn't accomplish those events, we the donors and promotors did, yet he did step up and take the initiative, therefore he is a leader, thus far in my book. Without that leadership, would we have gotten this far in the exposure with the media? I don't know, because there are so many individuals taking so many intiatives themselves, we are a group of individuals. But so far his track record is solid. He is what I call an asset to this revolution.

Finally, he brought us to this new idea, the blimp. They had an idea, we grasped on to it, once things looked like the project was clear for takeoff, they found out like most entrepreneurs do in a start up, there are road blocks that often sap the intial energy and spirit, but these roadblocks had to be overcome. Let's keep in mind, this effort was put forth by the free will of an individual(s). So now things are setup to run this operation, and an unpainted available blimp awaits.

The question is, do you donate?

A famous quote - 'I can take a shit in a box and mark guaranteed on it, if it makes you feel better'

twdahm
12-03-2007, 08:14 AM
(Please Read)
Another startup, business owner here, of more than 13 years.

Unless you have experience in starting up something similar, you have no idea what is required to achieve a project like this. This is what these guys(trevor and whoever) are finding out right now. Along the way, this man discovered his unique passion and talent for promoting, I believe, and his soul is alive, and he is running with the ideas (our ideas). Lets use this man's passion for our cause.

Sit down and take the time to figure out exactly how you could do this project. Go into the fine details: research the laws, try securing a short term contract with a blimp company(mention you have no money, but you are hoping it will be there). Try organizing in disciplined fashion all logistics: when - timing, where - air restrictions, weather, how - donations, accepting credit cards, wire transfers, tax forms, laws, accounting, etc......(i would have to spend a week just to figure out the questions I should be asking, let alone finding answers/solutions to impediments).

Now, how are you and a couple of your (volunteer) friends, going to handle all this work, in between your own personal matters, work, kids, family, whatever it is you do and your friends do. This isn't a job in which you know what to do or are told what to do in simple order. That is not how this works or any business for that matter. The 'unknown' possibilities are infinite.

I am semi-new here, and I am only following what I read and what my gut instinct is telling me. Trevor did a fantastic job setting up the 5th site, and he did a fantastic job setting up the tea party site. He alone didn't accomplish those events, we the donors and promotors did, yet he did step up and take the initiative, therefore he is a leader, thus far in my book. Without that leadership, would we have gotten this far in the exposure with the media? I don't know, because there are so many individuals taking so many intiatives themselves, we are a group of individuals. But so far his track record is solid. He is what I call an asset to this revolution.

Finally, he brought us to this new idea, the blimp. They had an idea, we grasped on to it, once things looked like the project was clear for takeoff, they found out like most entrepreneurs do in a start up, there are road blocks that often sap the intial energy and spirit, but these roadblocks had to be overcome. Let's keep in mind, this effort was put forth by the free will of an individual(s). So now things are setup to run this operation, and an unpainted available blimp awaits.

The question is, do you donate?

A famous quote - 'I can take a shit in a box and mark guaranteed on it, if it makes you feel better'

Hand the project over to me I will take it on and fund all startup expenses on my own and take no salary....

OferNave
12-03-2007, 08:27 AM
Hand the project over to me I will take it on and fund all startup expenses on my own and take no salary....

There's room in the sky for more than one blimp. In fact, we could really use a second one on the west coast, especially for the super bowl.

No one is stopping you. Go for it. If you do a good job, I'll even jump in.

expatinireland
12-03-2007, 08:27 AM
The site states: "No limits for U.S. individuals."

The implication of this statement is that non US individuals may contribute with limits.

First of all what is a US individual?

I am an American living overseas. Am I a US individual and will the site allow me to contribute?

Can foreign nationals contribute with limits?

The site could be a bit clearer about this.

There are over 100,000 Americans living in Ireland alone so I hope you, unlike the official campaign website, facilitates donations from Americans living overseas.

Americans living overseas are generally better educated and higher in income than resident Americans so it is a terrible thing to ignore those of us living over seas. Last week Bill Clinton featured at a party here in Ireland raising over $200,000 from 100 Americans for his wife's campaign.

TIA for your response.

By the way great job Mckarnin fielding all these difficult questions.

John P Slevin
12-03-2007, 08:35 AM
Michigan11,

RIGHT ON! I am a business owner, and my business specifically IS PACs.

There was no way to do this, and these bright people found a way.

Support them, oppose them, whatever, but don't speak until you know something. NO PAC can accomplish the purpose which these people have found a way to accomplish. Anyone who doubts this need only go to fec.gov and read the laws.

It CANNOT be done by a PAC, that is why they switched to a for profit company. Hiring Brad Smith was the right way to go, and why knock what you cannot do. I challenge any of Trevor's critics to explain why he is wrong and they are right.

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 08:40 AM
How, how are you and a couple of your (volunteer) friends, going to handle all this work, in between your own personal matters, work, kids, family, whatever it is you do and your friends do. This isn't a job in which you know what to do or are told what to do in simple order. That is not how this works or any business for that matter. The 'unknown' possibilities are infinite.

I am semi-new here, and I am only following what I read and what my gut instinct is telling me. Trevor did a fantastic job setting up the 5th site, and he did a fantastic job setting up the tea party site. He alone didn't accomplish those events, we the donors and promotors did, yet he did step up and take the initiative, therefore he is a leader, thus far in my book. Without that leadership, would we have gotten this far in the exposure with the media? I don't know, because there are so many individuals taking so many intiatives themselves, we are a group of individuals. But so far his track record is solid. He is what I call an asset to this revolution.

Finally, he brought us to this new idea, the blimp. They had an idea, we grasped on to it, once things looked like the project was clear for takeoff, they found out like most entrepreneurs do in a start up, there are road blocks that often sap the intial energy and spirit, but these roadblocks had to be overcome. Let's keep in mind, this effort was put forth by the free will of an individual(s). So now things are setup to run this operation, and an unpainted available blimp awaits.

The question is, do you donate?

A famous quote - 'I can take a shit in a box and mark guaranteed on it, if it makes you feel better'

Quote Tommy Boy

Anyway everyone keeps saying volunteer like their all 18 year old kids that don't know anything. If you read my posts there was requests to ask for QUALIFIED VOLUNTEERS. Are you trying to say theres no one who would go work with the blimp? Not saying volunteer as in two hours a day from home. There are people who would take leave off work/ sabbatical and help with this. I am not saying 3 people run this from their computers or 30. Just a way to lower expenses if ASK if any qualified people would mind coming out and help make this happen.

Example before paying a webmaster 1k a week post the requirements/ job description and see if any QUALIFIED people would like to do it for no/ low cost. Maybe a owner of web development company would do it for the free advertising. 4000 a month saved

Example hollywood is slow right now due to writers strike, maybe there are professional QUALIFIED people who would like to be the cameramen and don't need 1k a week to do it. If you can get a few series/ documentary crew whose production have stopped/ canceled to come out for 2 months that's 1k*2k*4k = 8,000 dollars a month saved.

Ron Paul Airforce Official crew" fleece jackets for the Blimp crew x 35 jackets
$30 each x $35 = Approx. $1,050
Good Price for a jacket but if your getting 1k a week maybe you could deduct it from your paycheck.

# Press Kits - We want to make a memorable impact on the press and give them something to remember their blimp ride, therefore we will be giving them a press kit consisting of.
# Mylar Blimp Balloon, "Ron Paul Airforce" hat, "Ron Paul Airforce" T-shirt
Why not sell these online to everyone and use a small markup to pay for free ones for press

# Dedicated Web server 150 month
People have posted offering servers at their company/ farm before for tea paprty.

#Airfare to fly lawyers in and out and other individuals who are key to making this work, as well as back home for holidays or family emergency's.
Ask for friend coupons from the forums people who work at airlines get very discounted standby tickets for friends (some companies only do families but many have ones you can offer to non family members as long as you dont sell)


To tired to continue but you get the idea...I hope !

JohnnyWrath
12-03-2007, 08:44 AM
If the organizers want to start a company, they should do so independently of the grassroots. If the grassroots decided that a private company was worth hiring and chose it that would be one thing, but to start a project as a grassroots effort, take pledges, and then co-opt it for profit and to launch a company is highly immoral in my opinion.

+1

Mark
12-03-2007, 08:44 AM
Michigan11,

RIGHT ON! I am a business owner, and my business specifically IS PACs.

There was no way to do this, and these bright people found a way.

Support them, oppose them, whatever, but don't speak until you know something. NO PAC can accomplish the purpose which these people have found a way to accomplish. Anyone who doubts this need only go to fec.gov and read the laws.

It CANNOT be done by a PAC, that is why they switched to a for profit company. Hiring Brad Smith was the right way to go, and why knock what you cannot do. I challenge any of Trevor's critics to explain why he is wrong and they are right.

They didn't switch, they had the idea for the company first, before starting the LLC.

Before the blimp idea was passed around too, I believe.

The blimp just happens to fit with the company they wanted to start.

They just didn't tell us about wanting to start the company,

they only mentioned the blimp.

Minuteman
12-03-2007, 08:48 AM
I have a question.

I have noticed you will be inviting press to your landings and be giving tours etc. Do you have a qualified spokesperson to handle media question about Ron Paul. The media are professionals and are capable of asking very tough questions. If put on the spot will your Press Contact be able to answer them.

Say a major news organization ask you about Gold Standard vs. Fiat Money, will you be able to answer it. I chose this to ask because its a very very complicated issue that the average person has a hard time understanding or explaining.

JWallace
12-03-2007, 08:49 AM
(Please Read)
....Unless you have experience in starting up something similar, you have no idea what is required to achieve a project like this. This is what these guys(trevor and whoever) are finding out right now. Along the way, this man discovered his unique passion and talent for promoting, I believe, and his soul is alive, and he is running with the ideas (our ideas). Lets use this man's passion for our cause.......Finally, he brought us to this new idea, the blimp. They had an idea, we grasped on to it, once things looked like the project was clear for takeoff, they found out like most entrepreneurs do in a start up, there are road blocks that often sap the intial energy and spirit, but these roadblocks had to be overcome. Let's keep in mind, this effort was put forth by the free will of an individual(s). So now things are setup to run this operation, and an unpainted available blimp awaits.

The question is, do you donate?

Agreed

Mark
12-03-2007, 08:50 AM
If the organizers want to start a company, they should do so independently of the grassroots. If the grassroots decided that a private company was worth hiring and chose it that would be one thing, but to start a project as a grassroots effort, take pledges, and then co-opt it for profit and to launch a company is highly immoral in my opinion.



+1



+1

To do it without telling us he already wanted to start a Political Ad company was wrong too, if it's true.

If so, he used us to get start up money.

Mark
12-03-2007, 08:52 AM
Hand the project over to me I will take it on and fund all startup expenses on my own and take no salary....

ding! ding! ding!

We have a winner folks!

TCrage
12-03-2007, 08:54 AM
ding! ding! ding!

We have a winner folks!

I with ya, brother!! WTF is going on around here?!

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 08:58 AM
My name is Katharine and you can see me under Media on the Ron Paul blimp site. Please ask questions in this thread or email them to: inquiries@ronpaulblimp.com


Since Mckarnin was kind enough to start this thread SPECIFICALLY for questions and answers about the blimp project, can we PLEASE not load it up with all sorts of irrelevant discussion about whether this is a good project or not? She's going to be busy enough answering legitimate questions without wading through pages of discussion trying to find the questions she needs to get answered.

Thanks for your consideration of her time.

PeacePlan
12-03-2007, 08:58 AM
There is also a big problem with the donations. When I first looked at the pledge page it was saying if you donated 25 you could win a day on the blimp and if you gave 5,000 you got 3 days for sure no matter what. I think a bunch of people who signed on as 5,000 dollar donors did so to get those 3 days. That part of the deal now seems to be gone and so are the donors.

I know I told my son that if I won a day on the blimp he could ride it for me. Now it looks like it will be full of paid staff and not the grass root supporters - I bet the money does not come in at least the big 5,000 buck donations that were told they would get 3 days?

rancher89
12-03-2007, 09:03 AM
I don't see a chip-in link on the web site? Where do I go to chip in?? Can you add the chip in results and the link to chip in to the web site?

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 09:15 AM
The site states: "No limits for U.S. individuals."

The implication of this statement is that non US individuals may contribute with limits.

First of all what is a US individual?

I am an American living overseas. Am I a US individual and will the site allow me to contribute?

Can foreign nationals contribute with limits?

The site could be a bit clearer about this.

There are over 100,000 Americans living in Ireland alone so I hope you, unlike the official campaign website, facilitates donations from Americans living overseas.

Americans living overseas are generally better educated and higher in income than resident Americans so it is a terrible thing to ignore those of us living over seas. Last week Bill Clinton featured at a party here in Ireland raising over $200,000 from 100 Americans for his wife's campaign.

TIA for your response.

By the way great job Mckarnin fielding all these difficult questions.



I am still trying to double check on this and have US individuals clarified. It is my understanding that only US citizens can purchase time because this is a political advertising company. I'll get back to you with more.


Thanks!

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 09:20 AM
They didn't switch, they had the idea for the company first, before starting the LLC.

Before the blimp idea was passed around too, I believe.

The blimp just happens to fit with the company they wanted to start.

They just didn't tell us about wanting to start the company,

they only mentioned the blimp.


Mark,


Trevor had every intention of doing the blimp as a PAC until it became totally apparent that it just wasn't going to work that way. Gosh I wish the PAC link on the blimp site were up right now.... Well, getting back to my reply, Trevor has about 100 ideas at any given time and some kind of company may have been one of them but no one set up the blimp project as an excuse to set up a for-profit company. It was done out of legal necessity.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 09:24 AM
I have a question.

I have noticed you will be inviting press to your landings and be giving tours etc. Do you have a qualified spokesperson to handle media question about Ron Paul. The media are professionals and are capable of asking very tough questions. If put on the spot will your Press Contact be able to answer them.

Say a major news organization ask you about Gold Standard vs. Fiat Money, will you be able to answer it. I chose this to ask because its a very very complicated issue that the average person has a hard time understanding or explaining.


Because Liberty Advertising is a business that does not perform political advocacy I do not think that any employee of Liberty Advertising will be agressively discussing Ron Paul's views on the issues. I am sure that local meetups and supporters may come to blimp landings and address the media's questions that pertain specifically to Ron Paul's political views. I will check into this further.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 09:25 AM
Since Mckarnin was kind enough to start this thread SPECIFICALLY for questions and answers about the blimp project, can we PLEASE not load it up with all sorts of irrelevant discussion about whether this is a good project or not? She's going to be busy enough answering legitimate questions without wading through pages of discussion trying to find the questions she needs to get answered.

Thanks for your consideration of her time.



Thanks FreeTraveler! Don't even ask why I am back on after 2 hours of sleep.

Green Mountain Boy
12-03-2007, 09:28 AM
Mckarnin,

On the blimp schedule, it says the blimp will be in Boston on Friday and on Saturday the 15th with a "rally" on Saturday.

The Boston Tea Party Rally is taking place on Sunday the 16th. Will it not be there for the main event?

Mark
12-03-2007, 09:28 AM
Thanks FreeTraveler! Don't even ask why I am back on after 2 hours of sleep.

Did you see where the person offered to take over the project and cover all costs?

Is that cool with Trevor?

JohnnyWrath
12-03-2007, 09:29 AM
Because Liberty Advertising is a business that does not perform political advocacy I do not think that any employee of Liberty Advertising will be agressively discussing Ron Paul's views on the issues.

What exactly, or WHOM, WILL Trevor be promoting when he speaks to the media if he isn't allowed to even promote Ron Paul?

KewlRonduderules
12-03-2007, 09:35 AM
Hand the project over to me I will take it on and fund all startup expenses on my own and take no salary....

If true, then I think this will end all conflict immediately.

I, on the otherhand, am not against the current project.

Afterall, Dr. Paul does support free market enterprise.

RP4Pres2008
12-03-2007, 09:36 AM
Because Liberty Advertising is a business that does not perform political advocacy I do not think that any employee of Liberty Advertising will be agressively discussing Ron Paul's views on the issues. I am sure that local meetups and supporters may come to blimp landings and address the media's questions that pertain specifically to Ron Paul's political views. I will check into this further.


What exactly, or WHOM, WILL Trevor be promoting when he speaks to the media if he isn't allowed to even promote Ron Paul?

So now this isn't even a Ron Paul project? I am so lost as to what this has turned into...

Also the meetup groups can't videotape or get in contact with the media for exposure, but they are called upon to do all the talking for Ron Paul where ever the blimp goes?

twdahm
12-03-2007, 09:55 AM
Hate to beat the dead horse but this is now TWO unsuccesful events in a row people. Nov 30th and the Blimp. The news will have a blast with this one also.. Maybe you will all realize Trevor is not all you guys made him out to be. (like I have been saying for weeks.....) Oh yeah I forgot Im a Huck supporting whinner...

Green Mountain Boy
12-03-2007, 09:57 AM
Hate to beat the dead horse but this is now TWO unsuccesful events in a row people. Nov 30th and the Blimp. The news will have a blast with this one also.. Maybe you will all realize Trevor is not all you guys made him out to be. (like I have been saying for weeks.....)

Please keep posts here on topic. I've asked a legitimate question, and you're just cluttering it up with garbage.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 09:58 AM
So now this isn't even a Ron Paul project? I am so lost as to what this has turned into...

Also the meetup groups can't videotape or get in contact with the media for exposure, but they are called upon to do all the talking for Ron Paul where ever the blimp goes?


I am unaware of any restrictions like what you describe. To the best of my knowledge meetups can videotape and contact the media about Ron Paul as much as they want whether about the blimp or any other event that is significant for them.

The advertising that we are providing for our customers will promote inquiry into Ron Paul. I do not think that we, as a business, are allowed to have our employees promote Ron Paul's specific political stances. I will look into the legalities of all this.

Liberty Advertising will have a spokesperson on hand to give the media information about the Ron Paul Blimp Tour, it's itinerary, crowds coming out to see it, the sponsors of the Ron Paul Blimp tour, etc...

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 09:58 AM
Because Liberty Advertising is a business that does not perform political advocacy I do not think that any employee of Liberty Advertising will be aggressively discussing Ron Paul's views on the issues. I am sure that local meetups and supporters may come to blimp landings and address the media's questions that pertain specifically to Ron Paul's political views. I will check into this further.

The advertising that we are providing for our customers will promote inquiry into Ron Paul. I do not think that we, as a business, are allowed to have our employees promote Ron Paul's specific political stances. I will look into the legalities of all this.




Are you kidding me ? They won't even be allowed to explain his positions then why all the press positions ? What are they there to talk about ? How pretty blimps are ? :mad:

WTF

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 10:01 AM
What exactly, or WHOM, WILL Trevor be promoting when he speaks to the media if he isn't allowed to even promote Ron Paul?


I have to look further into our legal obligations with the legal team. I can say at this point that it should be no problem at all for any representative of Liberty Advertising to discuss the Ron Paul Blimp Tour, rallys or events at landing sites, number of people in attendance, information about our sponsors. I think there is a bit more that can be discussed as well, I just want to avoid misleading people by overstating what we can say.

FunkBuddha
12-03-2007, 10:02 AM
My question is this. Since you guys have lawyers on board now. Is there any way that the man who made $100,000 of false pledges and admitted to it publicly can legally held accountable for his actions?

BTW, I think the way that this Blimp project has been handled so far is excellent. I don't have money to contribute, but I would've been hesitant to contribute the old PAC way because of legal ramifications with the FEC.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 10:03 AM
Hate to beat the dead horse but this is now TWO unsuccesful events in a row people. Nov 30th and the Blimp. The news will have a blast with this one also.. Maybe you will all realize Trevor is not all you guys made him out to be. (like I have been saying for weeks.....) Oh yeah I forgot Im a Huck supporting whinner...


You didn't ask a question but I would like to ask if you seriously consider $500,000+ in one day to be a failure when there was about a week to promote it?

Green Mountain Boy
12-03-2007, 10:03 AM
Mckarnin, Did you see my question?

On the blimp schedule, it says the blimp will be in Boston on Friday and on Saturday the 15th with a "rally" on Saturday.

The Boston Tea Party Rally is taking place on Sunday the 16th. Will it not be there for the main event?

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 10:03 AM
Thanks FreeTraveler! Don't even ask why I am back on after 2 hours of sleep.

I don't need to ask. I understand committment to an ideal and dedication to a job, and know those concepts have no relationship to how much you're paid.

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 10:05 AM
Did you see where the person offered to take over the project and cover all costs?

Is that cool with Trevor?

That person, although relatively new to the forum and with no proven track record, is free to start a competing project if he wishes to do so. He has no right to take over someone else's project just because he wants to. What is it about free markets that people don't understand?

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 10:06 AM
Hate to beat the dead horse but this is now TWO unsuccesful events in a row people. Nov 30th and the Blimp. The news will have a blast with this one also.. Maybe you will all realize Trevor is not all you guys made him out to be. (like I have been saying for weeks.....) Oh yeah I forgot Im a Huck supporting whinner...

...and which projects are you spearheading that we can all get behind to get dollars or votes for the good doctor?

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 10:08 AM
Because Liberty Advertising is a business that does not perform political advocacy I do not think that any employee of Liberty Advertising will be aggressively discussing Ron Paul's views on the issues. I am sure that local meetups and supporters may come to blimp landings and address the media's questions that pertain specifically to Ron Paul's political views. I will check into this further.

The advertising that we are providing for our customers will promote inquiry into Ron Paul. I do not think that we, as a business, are allowed to have our employees promote Ron Paul's specific political stances. I will look into the legalities of all this.




Are you kidding me ? They won't even be allowed to explain his positions then why all the press positions ? What are they there to talk about ? How pretty blimps are ? :mad:

WTF


I still have to check this out legally. The point of the blimp all along has been to get massive attention for Ron Paul from the media and people throught the country and to shoot his name recognition through the roof.

Even if specific Ron Paul views cannot be parroted on behalf of Liberty Advertising I am sure that those involved can speak on a personal level about who they support politically.

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 10:10 AM
Mckarnin, Did you see my question?

On the blimp schedule, it says the blimp will be in Boston on Friday and on Saturday the 15th with a "rally" on Saturday.

The Boston Tea Party Rally is taking place on Sunday the 16th. Will it not be there for the main event?


I think that is a typo. I will be double checking.

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 10:11 AM
Free Traveler

I think they should take some input and consider. Yes it is there project but they changed alot of things quickly without the back and forth thats usual in this forum. People want to donate they just want concerns addressed. And for starting another project this was the only company that would do short term contracts/ open for RP at least for that type of blimp.

My concern, their wasting money by not utilizing the grassroots

Mckarnin
12-03-2007, 10:14 AM
My question is this. Since you guys have lawyers on board now. Is there any way that the man who made $100,000 of false pledges and admitted to it publicly can legally held accountable for his actions?

BTW, I think the way that this Blimp project has been handled so far is excellent. I don't have money to contribute, but I would've been hesitant to contribute the old PAC way because of legal ramifications with the FEC.


We are a business now but there was no business on the page where pledges were taken and that page just represented what we anticipated doing. Thus, those who pledged are under no legal obligation to sponsor advertising and we are under no legal obligation to make good on the original website's promises. That said insofar as is humanly possible we have been working to make good on every statement we can from the initial site. We consider it a duty of honor to get as close as possible to what the pledge sitestated and hope that those who are happy with the blimp as it now proceeding will consider themselves to have a duty of honor to make good on their pledges by purchasing sponsorship of the Ron Paul Blimp Tour.

twdahm
12-03-2007, 10:16 AM
...and which projects are you spearheading that we can all get behind to get dollars or votes for the good doctor?

Its not about spearheading projects thats were you all have it wrong its about handling the projects properly and these last two have NOT been. Even though Nov. 30th raised 500k it was a failure because Trevor decided to make press releases about how much money we were going to raise from HIS idea (which we didnt meet the goal) instead of waiting until the day was over and send a press release about how much money we raised... And the Blimp has become a money making project for him and a few select staff members. I can reccomend two website developers that will manage the site for free not 1,000 bucks a week....

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Free Traveler

I think they should take some input and consider. Yes it is there project but they changed alot of things quickly without the back and forth thats usual in this forum. People want to donate they just want concerns addressed. And for starting another project this was the only company that would do short term contracts/ open for RP at least for that type of blimp.

My concern, their wasting money by not utilizing the grassroots

My complaint isn't with anyone asking legitimate questions of the organizers of this project. That's why they started the thread, after all.

My concern is with those who think this is a socialist haven and they can take over other people's efforts by shouting, throwing temper tantrums, and insisting on having their own way. It's not hard to tell from reading the posts which are which.

OferNave
12-03-2007, 10:18 AM
Ok, listen up all you whiny bitches [Admin - remove name calling ] et's prove it), then I'm going to make you an offer. Not because you deserve it - I can't legally give you what you deserve. But because this project is too important to too many thousands of people (yes, thousands, based on the pledges) to let a handful of you ruin it.

For every $10 you donate, I will donate $1 to cover the 8% of overhead that offends you. That way you get to have it your way - just a blimp, with no administrative overhead.

Who wants in?

KewlRonduderules
12-03-2007, 10:20 AM
Its not about spearheading projects thats were you all have it wrong its about handling the projects properly and these last two have NOT been. Even though Nov. 30th raised 500k it was a failure because Trevor decided to make press releases about how much money we were going to raise from HIS idea (which we didnt meet the goal) instead of waiting until the day was over and send a press release about how much money we raised... And the Blimp has become a money making project for him and a few select staff members. I can reccomend two website developers that will manage the site for free not 1,000 bucks a week....

You have a lot of criticisms about the blimp. If you indeed have a business plan, I would appreciate it (and as well as others) if you can post it up so everybody can evaluate it.

Let's hear your business plan, drawings, funding, and other ideas that you speak of.

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 10:22 AM
Its not about spearheading projects thats were you all have it wrong its about handling the projects properly and these last two have NOT been. Even though Nov. 30th raised 500k it was a failure because Trevor decided to make press releases about how much money we were going to raise from HIS idea (which we didnt meet the goal) instead of waiting until the day was over and send a press release about how much money we raised... And the Blimp has become a money making project for him and a few select staff members. I can reccomend two website developers that will manage the site for free not 1,000 bucks a week....

You're certainly entitled to your opinion about the 30th. You're also welcome, according to the organizers, to send information about any employees you recommend to the blimp organizers.

If you're not happy about the way this project is organized, you're welcome to start your own. You're also free to withhold your funds and energies for projects you choose to support. Beyond that, I don't believe you have any right to insist on anything. This is a free market, not a democracy or a socialist organization.

InRonWeTrust
12-03-2007, 10:22 AM
These salaries are killing the project. Just listen to the people and drop these salaries.

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 10:24 AM
These salaries are killing the project. Just listen to the people and drop these salaries.

Where can I go to contribute to the blimp project that you're organizing, that will be staffed entirely by volunteers?

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 10:25 AM
Ofernave

To get that number did you leave out expenses (hotel, food, travel, flights) and legal fees ;) Or did you estimate ?

Just wondering because they can add up quick. Ever hired a lawyer, billable hours at 100 for first amendment lawsuits. 500 for Past Fec chairman. I know their needed just did you count that in overhead.

Where can I go to contribute to the blimp project that you're organizing, that will be staffed entirely by volunteers?

Nope only one available December on short term contract they have. At least that size

InRonWeTrust
12-03-2007, 10:26 AM
The salary thing violates the spirit of everything that has happened with Ron so far. And obviously, if you did not notice, people are pissed off and are crying foul.

There are plenty of people who will do all of this for free.

The way to solve this problem is to eliminate the salaries for now, and if the blimp works out over a month or two, then ask for salaries. If the thing is a success, people will be glad to do it.

BlueGecko
12-03-2007, 10:29 AM
The salary thing violates the spirit of everything that has happened with Ron so far. And obviously, if you did not notice, people are pissed off and are crying foul.

There are plenty of people who will do all of this for free.

The way to solve this problem is to eliminate the salaries for now, and if the blimp works out over a month or two, then ask for salaries. If the thing is a success, people will be glad to do it.
Reply With Quote

One month run without salaries ?

Anyway just get the creators on here to justify costs like hiring webmasters when people will do it for free and cameramen that make more in NH than California

twdahm
12-03-2007, 10:31 AM
You're certainly entitled to your opinion about the 30th. You're also welcome, according to the organizers, to send information about any employees you recommend to the blimp organizers.

If you're not happy about the way this project is organized, you're welcome to start your own. You're also free to withhold your funds and energies for projects you choose to support. Beyond that, I don't believe you have any right to insist on anything. This is a free market, not a democracy or a socialist organization.

You guys and quoting your democracy or socialist crap it simple -- just proper planning. You can go back and look at the forums I was expressing no to set a goal for the 30th we had 2200 people registerd and Trevor sends a press release that we are going to raise 2.5 mill? does that math add up yeah if everyone gives 10x what they pledged $1,000.00 a person. I am saying COMMON SENSE. The structure of the blimp paying the unecessary sallaries is crazy. I dont ming paying a couple but lets get real some of those jobs are not needed like the web developer for 1,000k a week!

CelestialRender
12-03-2007, 10:32 AM
My complaint isn't with anyone asking legitimate questions of the organizers of this project. That's why they started the thread, after all.

My concern is with those who think this is a socialist haven and they can take over other people's efforts by shouting, throwing temper tantrums, and insisting on having their own way. It's not hard to tell from reading the posts which are which.

A-Freakin-Men.

This is not a Trevor hate thread. This is not a thread for your new idea for a different or better blimp venture.

This is a thread for questions to be answered by a rep of Liberty Advertising.

KewlRonduderules
12-03-2007, 10:33 AM
twdahm,

please post your plan. You have my attention as well as others. We would like to see what you have to say.

Preferably on another post.

Mark
12-03-2007, 10:36 AM
I hesitate to jump in because

OferNave already emailed me calling me names and such, but,

I did ask a question a long time ago and it was overlooked.


twdahm did say that he would handle the project at no cost.

Sounds like a perfect solution to me.

Is Trevor cool with that? (again) :)

DanK
12-03-2007, 10:45 AM
This project already has people running it and the organizational structure is working. Bringing in a new leader, briefing him on everything that is going on, etc. would take craploads of time that they do not have. If there's going to be any chance to get it in time for the 16th, you can't be kicking Trevor out now. Some of the other positions, maybe, but that's already been talked about over and over again.

Jagwarr
12-03-2007, 10:45 AM
Since this project was first proposed over six months ago, could you explain why we are now in a position of only having 48 hours to raise $200k?

Who is responsible for putting the blimp project in such a position? Have they been replaced?

How much capital (money) did the President and Vice President use of their own money to start this company?

So that we may have a feel for the competence of this new company, what were the last two employement postions held by the President and Vice President of the Blimp company?

Thank you

BrianK
12-03-2007, 10:46 AM
Just to clear things up because this seems to be coming up over and over.


Money gets spent in this order as I currently understand it:
1. Lawyers. Yuck but unavoidable.
2. Paying that first month to get it off the ground.
3. salaries. (retroactive?)
4. Additional flight time.

Am I wrong?

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 10:48 AM
I hesitate to jump in because

OferNave already emailed me calling me names and such, but,

I did ask a question a long time ago and it was overlooked.


twdahm did say that he would handle the project at no cost.

Sounds like a perfect solution to me.

Is Trevor cool with that? (again) :)

twdahm is certainly entitled to start his own project. Do you have a website for it yet? I may want to donate.

twdahm
12-03-2007, 10:50 AM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=519690#post519690

hillertexas
12-03-2007, 10:50 AM
The site states: "No limits for U.S. individuals."

The implication of this statement is that non US individuals may contribute with limits.

First of all what is a US individual?

I am an American living overseas. Am I a US individual and will the site allow me to contribute?

Can foreign nationals contribute with limits?

The site could be a bit clearer about this.

There are over 100,000 Americans living in Ireland alone so I hope you, unlike the official campaign website, facilitates donations from Americans living overseas.

Americans living overseas are generally better educated and higher in income than resident Americans so it is a terrible thing to ignore those of us living over seas. Last week Bill Clinton featured at a party here in Ireland raising over $200,000 from 100 Americans for his wife's campaign.

TIA for your response.

By the way great job Mckarnin fielding all these difficult questions.

I second this question. It has been implied that foreigners cannot sponser the blimp. I thought the whole point of becoming a LLC was to avoid such limitations. How can a privately owned LLC fall under the jurisdiction of the FEC?
Are you saying that someone from say Ireland could not buy a billboard in the US?
I am confused as to why there are limitations on foreign support when this is now a private business and doesn't even say "president" or "election" or really anything political on the blimp.

Thanks.

twdahm
12-03-2007, 10:52 AM
twdahm is certainly entitled to start his own project. Do you have a website for it yet? I may want to donate.

Im not starting my own project people are taking what i said out of context I said I would cover start up expenses and take no sallary..... We can get this done on a voluteer basis. The problem is greed is getting involved wether you want to admit it or not....

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 10:52 AM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=519690#post519690

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=46360

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 10:54 AM
Im not starting my own project people are taking what i said out of context I said I would cover start up expenses and take no sallary..... We can get this done on a voluteer basis. The problem is greed is getting involved wether you want to admit it or not....

Then go for it! I'm all for anybody starting a blimp project who wants to. You don't have any right to hijack an existing project, however. Hijackers tend to run in to buildings, I've noticed. :D Even Rudy knows that.

Man from La Mancha
12-03-2007, 10:56 AM
Since this project was first proposed over six months ago, could you explain why we are now in a position of only having 48 hours to raise $200k?

Who is responsible for putting the blimp project in such a position? Have they been replaced?

How much capital (money) did the President and Vice President use of their own money to start this company?

So that we may have a feel for the competence of this new company, what were the last two employement postions held by the President and Vice President of the Blimp company?

Thank youIt was only proposed that long ago. It was only the last 3 weeks that it became serious thanks to Elijah. Over $350k has to be raised. The CEO of the blimp company which is over 20 yr old is backing this venture with large discounts so I think has he judged these people competent and the other professionals that have signed up with them have the confidence in them. Go to the website and learn more.



http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1539/blackwsmalldv3.gif (teaparty07.com)ronpaulblimp.com...donate both

twdahm
12-03-2007, 10:57 AM
Then go for it! I'm all for anybody starting a blimp project who wants to. You don't have any right to hijack an existing project, however. Hijackers tend to run in to buildings, I've noticed. :D Even Rudy knows that.

CAN YOU READ? I said Im NOT!!!

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 10:58 AM
CAN YOU READ? I said Im NOT!!!

Oh, so you're just here to tell somebody else how to run their project? Glad we got that cleared up. Thanks! :)

Mark
12-03-2007, 11:01 AM
CAN YOU READ? I said Im NOT!!!

Obviously not.

I even asked twice about it with no response.

Apparently, they must not want the blimp to fly.

You could call the blimp company now and have it ready on time.

They still have to raise $300,000+ in a couple of days.

You seem to be the only solution twdahm.

Why won't they accept it? Your offer.

Mark
12-03-2007, 11:02 AM
Oh, so you're just here to tell somebody else how to run their project? Glad we got that cleared up. Thanks! :)

Would you please let the lady answer FreeTraveler?

twdahm
12-03-2007, 11:03 AM
Oh, so you're just here to tell somebody else how to run their project? Glad we got that cleared up. Thanks! :)

Grassroots WE ARE ALL PITCHING IN...

Mark
12-03-2007, 11:04 AM
Grassroots WE ARE ALL PITCHING IN...

Word, we've got each other's back Friend.

twdahm
12-03-2007, 11:07 AM
This is not Trevors project this our project, this is not George Bushs country this is our country. We should have input......

BrianK
12-03-2007, 11:09 AM
3 basic types here

1: Supporters of the project in it's current setup.
2: Supporters of the original concept but not the current setup.
3: People who disliked a blimp from the start.

#3 well I don't see many posting from that frame of mind. So no worries there.

#1 and 2 You both have valid points of view but making nasty comments at each other does neither of you good. People have every right to honestly question the way this is being handled given it origins in the grassroots community. That being said, simply telling Elijah and Trevor to work for free or hand over their company also helps nobody. They won't take a dime unless until the first month is fully paid for. Nobody but the lawyers will. If it is a success and it gets funded for more than the bare minimum then I personally think they have every right to take a salary to keep it going. You can disagree with that. But please lets all discuss these issues with some civility. We're all on the same team.

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 11:09 AM
This is not Trevors project this our project, this is not George Bushs country this is our country. We should have input......

Nope, sorry, this is Trevor's project now. You're welcome to start your own if you wish, but you're not entitled to hijack his efforts, and we don't believe in having some statist dictator take his efforts away from him and give them to someone you happen to approve of.

Don't you understand Dr. Paul's message at all??

Mark
12-03-2007, 11:10 AM
This is not Trevors project this our project, this is not George Bushs country this is our country. We should have input......

QFT == Quoted for Truth (shhh.. don't tell Bush that, he thinks he's dictator)

hillertexas
12-03-2007, 11:13 AM
"Originally Posted by expatinireland
The site states: "No limits for U.S. individuals."

The implication of this statement is that non US individuals may contribute with limits.

First of all what is a US individual?

I am an American living overseas. Am I a US individual and will the site allow me to contribute?

Can foreign nationals contribute with limits?

The site could be a bit clearer about this.

There are over 100,000 Americans living in Ireland alone so I hope you, unlike the official campaign website, facilitates donations from Americans living overseas."



I second this question. It has been implied that foreigners cannot sponser the blimp. I thought the whole point of becoming a LLC was to avoid such limitations. How can a privately owned LLC fall under the jurisdiction of the FEC?
Are you saying that someone from say Ireland could not buy a billboard in the US?
I am confused as to why there are limitations on foreign support when this is now a private business and doesn't even say "president" or "election" or really anything political on the blimp.

Thanks.

Mark
12-03-2007, 11:13 AM
telling Elijah and Trevor to hand over their company



Who said that?

Someone just said they would get the blimp in the air at no cost (to others) at all.

Really, where's the room for further discussion? Go for it!

Trevor still has his company, Blimp flys on time. Problem solved. Period.

twdahm
12-03-2007, 11:16 AM
Nope, sorry, this is Trevor's project now. You're welcome to start your own if you wish, but you're not entitled to hijack his efforts, and we don't believe in having some statist dictator take his efforts away from him and give them to someone you happen to approve of.

Don't you understand Dr. Paul's message at all??

I think you dont understand the message... its about the people not one pereon beniffitng from us or one persons ideas foced upon all of us--yes free market but we have the same goals lets just get it done but not only benefitting certian people this is all for Dr. Ron?!?! dont you get it? Greed screws everyting up

BrianK
12-03-2007, 11:16 AM
"Originally Posted by expatinireland
The site states: "No limits for U.S. individuals."

The implication of this statement is that non US individuals may contribute with limits.

First of all what is a US individual?

I am an American living overseas. Am I a US individual and will the site allow me to contribute?

Can foreign nationals contribute with limits?

The site could be a bit clearer about this.

There are over 100,000 Americans living in Ireland alone so I hope you, unlike the official campaign website, facilitates donations from Americans living overseas."



I second this question. It has been implied that foreigners cannot sponser the blimp. I thought the whole point of becoming a LLC was to avoid such limitations. How can a privately owned LLC fall under the jurisdiction of the FEC?
Are you saying that someone from say Ireland could not buy a billboard in the US?
I am confused as to why there are limitations on foreign support when this is now a private business and doesn't even say "president" or "election" or really anything political on the blimp.

Thanks.

McKarnin, this is one I would also like an answer to.

Mark
12-03-2007, 11:20 AM
McKarnin, this is one I would also like an answer to.

She's probably not here now. No answers for a while. Maybe later.

robinlynn
12-03-2007, 11:20 AM
first off, thanks for volunteering for this project.

I was wondering about the new price for the blimp banners. originally the cost of $350K included the banners and a 10 person ground crew for the blimp. in the new budget, there is a price of $25K on top of the $350K for the blimp. can you explain why this is?

Also, imo, the project does not need 2 full time videographers. I've worked in tv for ten years, and personally think that one videographer is enough. Ron Paul himself has 1 videographer... and he seems to be doing just fine that way.

I really want to donate to this blimp. But I'm worried about all of the changes that have taken place and the price increases.

thank you

NerveShocker
12-03-2007, 11:21 AM
Great job answering questions and informing everybody. It seems you have even convinced the people who have been completely skeptical the entire time. All I'm wondering is why these people were so convinced it was a scam before even though they have no info. Either way great job now I suspect many will stop spamming negative comments. I really hope next time before attacking and damaging their own effort people will wait for the information.

www.RonPaulBlimp.com

CelestialRender
12-03-2007, 11:22 AM
I think you dont understand the message... its about the people not one pereon beniffitng from us or one persons ideas foced upon all of us--yes free market but we have the same goals lets just get it done but not only benefitting certian people this is all for Dr. Ron?!?! dont you get it? Greed screws everyting up

The profit motive is what makes capitalism work. Most of us are working for the sole profit of getting RP elected, but we're also not working full time.

If I was working full time for RP, I would have to demand a salary as well; else, I wouldn't be able to support myself.

OferNave
12-03-2007, 11:28 AM
This is not Trevors project this our project, this is not George Bushs country this is our country. We should have input......

You are sorely mistaken.

Are you at all familiar with the world of Free/Open Source software? This grassroots movement works like that.

Someone takes a leadership role and starts a project. Everyone is free to give the person input, or volunteer to assist in any way. The project creator has full control. The creator is usually cooperative, and with large projects will delegate responsibility often, but when the need arises, the creator's absolute word is respected, because that is the only way it works. Ultimately, nothing great can be done by a committee.

The same exact roles apply here. You start the project, the project is yours. Anyone who disagrees can start their own. Anyone who wants to can participate in any project that allows them to.

You guys keep acting as if this project belongs to you. It doesn't. You need to understand that. Nov 5 didn't belong to you, or me. I liked it, so I pledged and donated. The tea bag mailing project doesn't belong to you or me. I like it, so I'm participating. The tea party rally in Boston doesn't belong to you or me. I like it, so I'm going, and I've offered to help flyer the town the day before.

Are you starting to understand your flawed premise?

And before you keep repeating the same tired old "he tricked us!" routine, no one collected any money until after the new structure was made clear. At most, all you did was submit your email address. They didn't "use our money to start their company", because there was no money collected until after the company was created and announced, replacing the previous site. No one lost anything, no one was used. The previous form of the project was replaced because it was found to be impossible to continue it in the originally envisioned manner. That's called a reality check. That's no one's fault - except maybe the FEC.

Now, the only thing left is to give constructive criticism that the administrative costs are too high. And even then, understand that you are the consumer in a consumer/producer relationship. The most you have the right to do is say whether or not you are interested in the product, and why. And if the overhead was the only problem, I already offered to pay it for you, and have not been taken up on it.

I don't see what's left. If you continue to persist, everyone is going to ignore you completely.

Mark
12-03-2007, 11:31 AM
OferNave

Are you starting to understand your flawed premise?



It's all clear here.

rrroae
12-03-2007, 11:32 AM
Who said that?

Someone just said they would get the blimp in the air at no cost (to others) at all.



Quit.

If someone were really serious, we'd have a detailed plan outlining how they would propose to do such. You're being hostile because you're upset Elijah and Trevor turned our grassroots movement into their personnal business venture.

We get it.

Many others aren't to thrilled about it either. Ok?

So if we look at this rationally, we have 2 choices.

1.) Make the blimp happen with Elijah's and Trevor's company

2.) Do everything we can to hijack the blimp because we're ticked it turned into a business venture which wil probably benifit Elijah and Trevor.

What would you propose we do?

...And you know full well it's too late to change management now if we're to have any chance of being in Boston by the 16th.

FreeTraveler
12-03-2007, 11:32 AM
Are you starting to understand your flawed premise?


Beautifully stated. Thanks!

Mark
12-03-2007, 11:38 AM
Quit.


What would you propose we do?

if we're to have any chance of being in Boston by the 16th.

I proposed it in the part you cut off.


Probably the only way to get the blimp in Boston by the 16th

is the person willing to cover the cost themselves.

Unless you think $300,000+ will come in in a couple of days.