Fragmenting and defeat of the Ron Paul Militia?

[Bradley in DC]

Pretty insightful article

http://seconddigitalfrontier.blogspot.com/2007/12/fragmenting-and-defeat-of-ron-paul.html

[Ron Paul Fan]

That wasn't insightful at all. The grassroots taking their marching orders from the campaign? What the hell is going on here? If it were up to Bydlack, November 5th would have never happened and December 16th would be non-existent! If people want to start a project and get a blimp going, why should the campaign come in and axe it? If people want to start a day to raise a lot of money, why should the campaign come in and axe it? This blog says that the grassroots is unfocused and counterproductive! How dare he! Does he realize what this grassroots support has achieved thus far? He bashes Ron Paul for being incompetent, he bashes us for being counterproductive, and he's the insightful one? Good God.

"No army can stop an idea whose time has come." -Ron Paul

[derdy]

Yeah, I didn't find it too insightful. I thought that the media would use November 30th to highlight division, which they did a little bit. So this isn't so suprising. With the transparency of the forums, they can take drama from the boards and make it appear much more of a problem than it really is.

Sure the blimp has plenty of nays and an equal amount of yeas, but that's one of the branches on our big tree that sprung from the grassroots.

I think we're doing well, but we need to do more. The blimp is going to happen and I can't afford to contribute to it. If I could I would, but

[MozoVote]

The forums can appear to be a squabbling mess to an outsider. But it is the crackling fire of freedom. They can't understand how all this motivation results in "surges" at straw polls and money bomb days.

Interesting that he focused on the blimp project - that one does have some problems. But IMO that's because it did not take the "lean command and individual effort" model that has deen deployed in other projects.

[CelestialRender]

It's insightful...if he's right. Which I don't think he will be.

The blimp's now at $50,000, which means that it's victory seems inevitable. There will be squabbles over whether the money was well-spent, but that will hardly "fracture a movement".

[Madison]

This campaign is paid for and owned by the grassroots, period. Ron Paul himself has stated unequivocally many times that it is about us, not him, that it is our revolution and he is merely a figurehead.

[Pharoah]

Ron Paul thanks us for inviting him to the Revolution - he understands us and we understand him.

[Bradley in DC]

That wasn't insightful at all. The grassroots taking their marching orders from the campaign? What the hell is going on here? If it were up to Bydlack, November 5th would have never happened and December 16th would be non-existent!

I think his main point is that if the official campaign gave better guidance to us on what they needed done and left it up to us to do it both the official campaign's goals would be met better and the grassroots would be better able to meet those goals. And yes, the behavior of some supporters at times is counter-productive.

[rpfreedom08]

True, I do think and have said on many occasions that we need to elect one or two people as grassroots representatives to the Ron Paul campaign.

[RonPaulFTFW]

Wait a second... he isn't a figurehead.

The queen is a figurehead.

We want him to have real power.


The important thing is that we all work together and translate our online passion to getting out the vote. That's it. It's ok to disagree, just don't get butthurt and tear down the movement.

[MsDoodahs]

:rolleyes:

[Adamsa]

November 30th did divide us a bit (it was a pretty stupid idea), but that doesn't mean people stopped being Ron Paul supporters. If anything it has us more determined for Iowa and NH.

[huchahucha]

Ah, wiff the undeniable stench of bullshit from yet another person that just doesn't get it. The grassroots seems fractured to the "experts" because nobody has ever ran a campaign like this before. The fact that Ron Paul is consistently the only candidate that continues to increase incoming funds each quarter and at the same time has followers paying out of their pocket for innovative, EXPENSIVE advertising schemes like the USA Today ad and the blimp completely blows this guys assumptions out of the water. The campaign managers know if they try to get in the way of us, they are going to be steam rolled.

[FreeTraveler]

The grassroots is the best example of a free market in action that this country has seen, possibly forever. That the products of this free market are efforts to promote the good doctor is secondary to that statement, although primary to the grassroots movement.

What we're seeing here is the explosion of a new paradigm, and one that will never be captured by any candidate who does not believe in liberty and the power of the free marketplace.

In the long term, only the message of Liberty can survive, because any socialist or fascist, top-driven program, will lose to a competing product supported by a free market of ideas.

Whether we started soon enough to win the battle for the good doctor, there is no doubt that if free-market projects such as this continue in support of candidates who support those free-market ideas, the political world has been changed in amazing ways, and will never be the same again.

This is what the MSM, with their belief that Hillary or Rudy could have gotten the same results, either totally fails to understand or refuses to acknowledge.

This is what disturbs me about the Blimp nay-sayers. They're trying to bring the old socialist, control by the masses paradigm to a market where it signifies nothin but noise and fury. Compete or go away; you don't get to control the masses by shouting anymore. That was the old model; this is the new.

[hard@work]

I think his main point is that if the official campaign gave better guidance to us on what they needed done and left it up to us to do it both the official campaign's goals would be met better and the grassroots would be better able to meet those goals. And yes, the behavior of some supporters at times is counter-productive.


I would say what we need is goals outlined along with status updates.

You know, not trying to herd cats or anything... but this is what we need.

[philistineau]

Those that wanted to donate on the 30th did, those that did not, didn't.

I didn't, because I am saving for the 16th and decided that enough would donate on the 30th to give the campaign a boost in funds. We are now at a level where would should be able to spend at a level similar to any other front running candidate. That was only my opinion though and I respect the opinion of others.

The fact that we let each individual decide when, how, how much, if at all they were going to donate, is what makes this movement so strong.

[philistineau]

I would say what we need is goals outlined along with status updates.

You know, not trying to herd cats or anything... but this is what we need.


This is the path we should avoid - as soon as we start "organizing" into a collective, we lose the free market energy that has got us where we are today.

We are not a disorganized rabble, we are intelligent individuals making decisions.

[Wilkero]

I think his main point is that if the official campaign gave better guidance to us on what they needed done and left it up to us to do it both the official campaign's goals would be met better and the grassroots would be better able to meet those goals. And yes, the behavior of some supporters at times is counter-productive.

I agree with Bradley about this being his main point, but I think he actually detracts from it by trying to use the blimp project as supporting evidence. Given that we got the project off the ground (sorry, couldn't help myself), it remains to be seen whether or not it's effective.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Doesn't the blimp site specifically ask people to donate only if they haven't maxed out their campaign contributions? That seems pretty reasonable to me.

Once you've maxed out, it would be kind of arrogant for the campaign to tell you what to do with the rest of your money. Not Ron Paul-like at all.

[FreeTraveler]

This is the path we should avoid - as soon as we start "organizing" into a collective, we lose the free market energy that has got us where we are today.

We are not a disorganized rabble, we are intelligent individuals making decisions.

QFT

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=46360

[RobertJ]

The eleitists cannot understand how such a huge amount of people like us can get done what we get done, even with squabbling here and there between us. This my friends, is what makes us what we are. Anyone who does not have differences of opinion is just another ideological sheep. Disagreements are a good thing, that is the whole point. I may not like what the guy/gal posted above me here has to say but I`m sure each of us would give our lives for their rights to say what they had to say. I`m not saying I disagree with the post above me, I`m just waxing philosophical as to make a point. People who alway walk in lockstep have no ideas, they are sheep, and they are why America is falling.

[goRPaul]

I'm a firm believer that when we start telling other people what to do and what not to do, that's where division occurs. Other than that, we are a very unified group, so lets keep our division to a minimum. Lets try not to "run other people's lives" by trying to run the campaign.

And as far as the official campaign not guiding us, I think it would be rather ironic if they did, because that's the opposite of what he's promising to do as president. We are a spontaneous grassroots effort, only good ideas will motivate us. Whoever takes it upon themselves to control us will only divide us.

[FreeTraveler]

This thread got me so fired up about the power of the free market, I had to make a thread about it! :D

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=46360

[Dary]

What I find amusing about the whole thing is that they miss the whole point that we actually HAVE a grassroots to begin with.

Things can get pretty dicey around here for sure, but I don't feel fractured or separated at all from any of you. We are a diverse bunch. Freedom brings us together. We all have opinions and some of us are most passionate about them. Last I checked, that's a good thing.

You'll never hear the words.. "Rudy's grassroots campaign showing fractures", because Rudy (or any other candidate for that matter) doesn't have a grassroots campaign.

They may have a few supporters, but they most certainly don't have a grassroots campaign.

[crhoades]

What I find amusing about the whole thing is that they miss the whole point that we actually HAVE a grassroots to begin with.

Things can get pretty dicey around here for sure, but I don't feel fractured or separated at all from any of you. We are a diverse bunch. Freedom brings us together. We all have opinions and some of us are most passionate about them. Last I checked, that's a good thing.

You'll never hear the words.. "Rudy's grassroots campaign showing fractures", because Rudy (or any other candidate for that matter) doesn't have a grassroots campaign.

They may have a few supporters, but they most certainly don't have a grassroots campaign.

Good Post.