Frein Captured

[sparebulb]

ABC is reporting that Frein has been captured alive.

We won't hear too much more about this outside of the high-fives and back-slapping from the regulator class. I don't think there will be a trial to answer some interesting questions.

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspected-pennsylvania-killer-eric-frein-captured-article-1.1993651


Suspected Pennsylvania cop killer Eric Frein captured: report
The 31-year-old accused in the Sept. 12 ambush shooting that killed a state trooper and wounded a second was captured Thursday after a near two-month run, 6ABC reported.


His run is over.

Suspected Pennsylvania cop killer Eric Frein has been captured, according to a local report.

The 31-year-old accused in the Sept. 12 ambush shooting that killed a state trooper and wounded a second was captured Thursday afternoon after a near two-month run, 6ABC reported.


http://6abc.com/news/sources-suspected-cop-killer-eric-frein-captured/373904/


POLICE: SUSPECTED COP KILLER ERIC FREIN CAPTURED

CANADENSIS, Pa. (WPVI) -- Pennsylvania State Police confirm they have captured Eric Frein, the man accused of killing a trooper last month.

"I can confirm that we have taken Eric Frein into custody. Further information will be released at a later time," Tfc. Connie Devens, Pennsylvania State Police Community Services Officer, said in a statement.

Sources tell Action News, Frein was captured in a hangar after law enforcement closed in on him Thursday afternoon.

A law enforcement source called Frein a "coward."

Frein is charged with opening fire outside the Blooming Grove barracks on Sept. 12, killing Trooper Bryon Dickson and seriously wounding Trooper Alex Douglass.

More details will be released this evening they said.

[tangent4ronpaul]

CNN is going into some detail about it.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Anyone remember Rudolf?

Can you imagine how different this would have been if it was 12 guys instead of 1
If the local population supported them instead of phoning in sighting tips.

-t

[ghengis86]

Anyone remember Rudolf?

Can you imagine how different this would have been if it was 12 guys instead of 1
If the local population supported them instead of phoning in sighting tips.

-t

Much like the Ebola/US Healthcare system, a dozen Freins would overwhelm law enforcement. And if they coordinated their tactics? Shit, the pigs would be cut to ribbons. Frein A carries out a diversion (local mall bomb threat), waits for pigs to arrive en masse, Freins B-L establish overlapping LOF with their .308's and its game over. Disburse and repeat with modified strategy.

Large occupational forces can never pacify local, 4th-gen, asymmetric warriors.

[phill4paul]

Catch him taking a "nappy?" If you've killed cops then you don't surrender. It'll be interesting to here how this went down.

[Suzanimal]

CANADENSIS, Pa. (WPVI) -- Pennsylvania State Police confirm they have captured Eric Frein, the man accused of killing a trooper last month.

"I can confirm that we have taken Eric Frein into custody. Further information will be released at a later time," Tfc. Connie Devens, Pennsylvania State Police Community Services Officer, said in a statement.

Sources tell Action News, Frein, 31, was captured in an aiport hangar Thursday afternoon.

Sources say Frein surrendered to federal marshals who were on routine patrol inside an abandoned airport hangar at the old Birchwood Pocono Airpark.

Frein told investigators he was armed and then gave up his weapon, sources tell Action News.

A law enforcement source called Frein a "coward."

...



http://6abc.com/news/sources-suspected-cop-killer-eric-frein-captured/373904/

[staerker]

I will take this down, if and when I determine he is guilty of murder. Until then:

http://s13.postimg.org/vw9s3ujmv/hero.png

[presence]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1O2IIsIAAAyax-.jpg

[tangent4ronpaul]

Apparently the weather got him. Since the start, temps have dropped 30 degrees and it was below freezing at night.
He had a hunting rifle with him when caught and the marshals service are the ones that tracked him down.
He did not put up a fight.
Like Dorner, he lost weapons and supplies in a car accident early on.
I have no idea why he stayed in the area...
I bet he is kicking himself right now for not taking flying lessons...

-t

[Pericles]

ABC is reporting that Frein has been captured alive.

We won't hear too much more about this outside of the high-fives and back-slapping from the regulator class. I don't think there will be a trial to answer some interesting questions.
Like this guy later found dead in his cell http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45881535/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/utah-officer-killed-others-wounded-shootout/#.VFLJqleHRvY

[RJB]

Catch him taking a "nappy?" If you've killed cops then you don't surrender. It'll be interesting to here how this went down.

I've spent time alone living off the land for up two weeks at a time. I can only imagine what two months and being hunted can do to a man.
There's the law of 3s

3 minutes without oxygen and you die.
3 hours without shelter in bad weather and you die.
3 days with out water and you die (I've gone longer)
3 weeks without food and you die (almost did that)
3 months without love and you die

This all played hell on his psyche, I'm sure.

[Danke]

3 months without love and you die

.

lol, I'm going on 30 years.

[Spikender]

They call Frein a coward, but it's hard to take that seriously coming from the law enforcement who rolled around en masse with automatic guns, armor, and dogs and harassed people who even remotely looked like Frein.

[RJB]

lol, I'm going on 30 years.

You have us :)

[phill4paul]

Apparently the weather got him. Since the start, temps have dropped 30 degrees and it was below freezing at night.
He had a hunting rifle with him when caught and the marshals service are the ones that tracked him down.
He did not put up a fight.
Like Dorner, he lost weapons and supplies in a car accident early on.
I have no idea why he stayed in the area...
I bet he is kicking himself right now for not taking flying lessons...

-t

He supposedly was a survivalist. So... I got nothing when they say weather was a factor.

[phill4paul]

lol, I'm going on 30 years.

Do you want it? Do you need it?

[tod evans]

Can you imagine how different this would have been if it was 12 guys instead of 1
If the local population supported them instead of phoning in sighting tips.

-t

As soon as Boobus quits believing what the TeeVee says this'll become reality...

In the meantime however....

[RJB]

He supposedly was a survivalist. So... I got nothing when they say weather was a factor.
So am I. I occasionally teach primitive and general survival skills but as Clint Eastwood says:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0

[tangent4ronpaul]

He supposedly was a survivalist. So... I got nothing when they say weather was a factor.

Fire becomes really important in freezing weather.
That's hard to pull off when drones with thermal optics are out hunting for you.
Build small and sit close and do it under a tree to break up the smoke.
Still, that's quite a signature.

-t

[Pericles]

Apparently the weather got him. Since the start, temps have dropped 30 degrees and it was below freezing at night.
He had a hunting rifle with him when caught and the marshals service are the ones that tracked him down.
He did not put up a fight.
Like Dorner, he lost weapons and supplies in a car accident early on.
I have no idea why he stayed in the area...
I bet he is kicking himself right now for not taking flying lessons...

-t

I'm guessing that the people who do this stuff work on the escape plan as an afterthought or don't plan for contingencies. Over half the effort needs to go into the egress phase of the operation. Ingress and the raid itself are relatively easy in comparison to a successful egress.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I'm guessing that the people who do this stuff work on the escape plan as an afterthought or don't plan for contingencies. Over half the effort needs to go into the egress phase of the operation. Ingress and the raid itself are relatively easy in comparison to a successful egress.

Yeah, messing up his car must have put a serious dent in his plans. Still he had pre-positioned stuff all over so it seems like his plan was to stay in the area.
Why on earth didn't he do this in the spring?
I guess the trial is going to be his soapbox. Wonder why on earth he did this??? :confused:

-t

[phill4paul]

I'm guessing that the people who do this stuff work on the escape plan as an afterthought or don't plan for contingencies. Over half the effort needs to go into the egress phase of the operation. Ingress and the raid itself are relatively easy in comparison to a successful egress.

Agreed. I had thought that the car that was stolen and ended up in N.Y. was him. Why the hell remain in the area if all your caches are compromised? Either he is a dipshit or a psy-op.

[ghengis86]

Yeah, messing up his car must have put a serious dent in his plans. Still he had pre-positioned stuff all over so it seems like his plan was to stay in the area.
Why on earth didn't he do this in the spring?
I guess the trial is going to be his soapbox. Wonder why on earth he did this??? :confused:

-t

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I wonder if he had a history with these 2 cops?
I remember he left out some pipe bombs as booby traps but he could have killed a lot of cops with a scoped rifle.
Maybe he thought he was going to get away with the original shooting and they wouldn't know who did it???

-t

[sparebulb]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1O2IIsIAAAyax-.jpg

Did they break his nose?

If so, more indications of who the real cowards are.

[Anti Federalist]

Good run Eric.

[ghengis86]

I wonder if he had a history with these 2 cops?
I remember he left out some pipe bombs as booby traps but he could have killed a lot of cops with a scoped rifle.
Maybe he thought he was going to get away with the original shooting and they wouldn't know who did it???

-t

If I recall, there were allegations in the other thread that the officer who lived - not the one who died - was invoked in some sort of affair with a person close to Frein (sister or wife or something).

[PaulConventionWV]

lol, I'm going on 30 years.

That means you're dead inside.

[presence]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1O8ZoLCIAAEANq.jpg

[Christian Liberty]

Yes he could have been innocent, and yes, he could have had good reason to do what he did in this particular case, but why we are ASSUMING those htings I don't know.

I hope the truth comes out at trial, whatever it is, but I don't expect it to.

[amy31416]

lol, I'm going on 30 years.

Pffft. I love you whether you like it or not.

[devil21]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1O2IIsIAAAyax-.jpg

Looks remarkably well maintained, even a fresh shave, for someone that's been in the woods for nearly two months.

[phill4paul]

Looks remarkably well maintained, even a fresh shave, for someone that's been in the woods for nearly two months.

Two months, haggard, starved, stressed and beaten by the weather.

[staerker]

Yes he could have been innocent, and yes, he could have had good reason to do what he did in this particular case, but why we are ASSUMING those htings I don't know.

I hope the truth comes out at trial, whatever it is, but I don't expect it to.

No one can say with certainty what happened. But am I going to assume he is guilty? No, I will assume he is innocent. And as an innocent man who evaded statist thugs for so long, he has no doubt inspired many.

I think the critical mass of those who see cops for what they really are, is approaching.

[Slave Mentality]

He does look a bit chubby for a dude that's been on the lamb in the wild for two months. Took an ass whooping too. Probably while cuffed.

[sparebulb]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1O8ZoLCIAAEANq.jpg

Seeing this picture reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me. He raised hogs back in the 80's and sold a bunch to an operator who came out to his place to pick up a load. Every hog that got a little aggressive, the buyer would take a thick piece of iron rebar and smash them in the face and break their noses. He didn't care about their health because they were going to slaughter, he just didn't want them fighting. My friend was pretty horrified, but they weren't his hogs anymore.

Frein belongs to the cops now.

[Anti Federalist]

Seeing this picture reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me. He raised hogs back in the 80's and sold a bunch to an operator who came out to his place to pick up a load. Every hog that got a little aggressive, the buyer would take a thick piece of iron rebar and smash them in the face and break their noses. He didn't care about their health because they were going to slaughter, he just didn't want them fighting. My friend was pretty horrified, but they weren't his hogs anymore.

Frein belongs to the cops now.

Wonder how many copsuckers fully approve of whatever assbeating he was given?

Cops are pissed they couldn't just kill him outright.

[Zippyjuan]

More info. They caught him walking back to his hideout in the abandoned airport hanger. http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/30/us/pennsylvania-trooper-shooting-suspect/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


After nearly seven weeks on the run, suspected cop killer Eric Matthew Frein is in custody, Pennsylvania State Police spokeswoman Connie Devens said Thursday.

According to a local government official briefed on the matter, Frein was caught at an abandoned airport between Henryville and Tannersville. He was reportedly taken into custody without incident.

A U.S. Marshal's Service special operations team tracked Frein to the abandoned airport while it was in process of clearing the area, according to a law enforcement source with knowledge of the capture.

Its work, that source said, was also aided by intelligence and eyewitness accounts gathered throughout the course of the manhunt.

Frein was armed with two guns when he was arrested, according to another law enforcement source. One was a pistol and the other a rifle, the source said.

A separate law enforcement official told CNN that knives were recovered from Frein's hiding place, and that authorities are currently searching the area for more weapons.

Frein, 31, is suspected in the September 12 ambush shooting that left Cpl. Bryon Dickson dead and Trooper Alex T. Douglass wounded outside the Pennsylvania State Police barracks in Blooming Grove.

"Let me assure everybody here ... justice will be served," Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett said Thursday night at a news conference about Frein's capture.

Prosecutors intend to seek the death penalty for Frein, Pike County District Attorney Raymond Tonkin told reporters.

The suspect is now sitting in a cell at the same barracks outside which the two officers were ambushed, authorities said. He was cuffed with Cpl. Dickson's handcuffs, officials said.


The search

The weeks-long search yielded a mishmash of purported personal effects.

Police have said they found an empty pack of Serbian cigarettes. Frein claims to have fought with Serbians in Africa and has studied Russian and Serbian languages, according to the FBI, which named him one of its Ten Most Wanted fugitives.

Two fully functional pipe bombs and soiled adult diapers were also found, perhaps used by Frein to stay in a stationary position for long periods of time.

Police have not spoken about a possible motive for the crime, other than that Frein has talked and written about hating law enforcement. Authorities have said a review of a computer hard drive used by Frein shows that he had planned the attack for years.

The manhunt involved as many as 1,000 officers at times, some from other states. The search for the self-styled survivalist cost at least several million dollars.

[Mani]

The only surprising thing is he has just a broken nose. How was he not shot 4,000 times by LEO's?

[Anti Federalist]

"Let me assure everybody here ... justice will be served," Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett said Thursday night at a news conference about Frein's capture.

Oh, goody...

[Occam's Banana]

A law enforcement source called Frein a "coward."

[T]he FBI [...] named him one of its Ten Most Wanted fugitives.

The manhunt involved as many as 1,000 officers at times, some from other states. The search for [Frein] cost at least several million dollars.

Frein, 31, is suspected in the [killing of Cpl. Bryon Dickson ... Frein] was cuffed with Cpl. Dickson's handcuffs, officials said.

......


"Let me assure everybody here ... justice just us will be served," Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett said [...]

Fixed that for you, guv ...

[Christian Liberty]

No one can say with certainty what happened. But am I going to assume he is guilty? No, I will assume he is innocent. And as an innocent man who evaded statist thugs for so long, he has no doubt inspired many.

I think the critical mass of those who see cops for what they really are, is approaching.

He should certainly be assumed innocent ACCORDING TO THE LAW but I'm personally not going to make any assumption. Admittedly, the fact that they cared this much to catch him is telling, but it could well just be that they felt like it was an insult to their honor that a "cop killer" was able to get away for so long.

If he IS guilty my moral assessment is going to be somewhat complicated and wishy-washy. I certainly understand why someone would want to lash out at the State like this. At the same time, cops are so brainwashed themselves into thinking their actions are justified, and 90% of the populace with them, that I have a hard time just saying "yeah, I don't really care what happens to them, period." I think its sort of hypocritical for the State to sentence him for this, but I'd have a hard time (as a juror) voting "not guilty" if there was loads of eviddence that he did it combined with no evidence of a better motive than just "he was a cop."

Regarding "what cops are", they are definitely aggressors, the problem is that they often don't realize it. I don't think that's in and of itself on the same level as committing murder. It CAN be, but I don't think it automatically is.


Wonder how many copsuckers fully approve of whatever assbeating he was given?

Cops are pissed they couldn't just kill him outright.

If they killed him without a trial I'd support putting them to death for murder. If they beat him up I'd sentence them for assault, and the penalty should still be death because they have the might of the State defending said assault. But of course, the State protects its own.

[William Tell]

If they killed him without a trial I'd support putting them to death for murder. If they beat him up I'd sentence them for assault, and the penalty should still be death because they have the might of the State defending said assault. But of course, the State protects its own.
I know this is sort of off topic for this thread, but I don't understand why you have such a double standard for cops. I can understand holding them up to the same standard as a normal citizen. And I can understand holding them up to Biblical standards. What I don't get, is why you randomly support the death penalty based on what appears to be solely ancap prejudice.

You have made up your own set of capital crimes, 'Freedom Fanatics Torah' we could call it.

[Mani]

"Let me assure everybody here ... justice will be served," Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett said Thursday night at a news conference about Frein's capture.


Anti Federalist: Oh, goody...



Did he say it with an evil grin while cracking his knuckles and putting on latex gloves? Coz I got a feeling Frein is going to find out the meaning of justice by a whole lot of men in blue. Not sure if Frein has enough bones in his body to receive all the justice he's about to be given.

[squarepusher]

I see no reason to support this guy who probably killed 2 people.

[William Tell]

I see no reason to support this guy who probably killed 2 people.

How dare you?! you gotta pick a side, cuz everyone else is doin' it!:D

[aGameOfThrones]

yay, Halloween is un-cancelled.


http://memeguy.com/photos/images/when-my-massive-porn-collection-has-been-discovered-on-my-laptop-27432.gif

[thoughtomator]

Dumbass. Can't believe he was within a thousand miles of there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifmRgQX82O4

[RonPaulFanInGA]

They used Bryon Dickson's handcuffs, and drove Frein off in Dickson's old squad car. How petty and cheesy.

Since I doubt he was cuffed originally with Dickson's handcuffs, I can only assume they kept them around and changed the cuffs out.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I see no reason to support this guy who probably killed 2 people.

1 dead, 1 wounded.

-t

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

If he planned it for years, then it's hard to figure why he did it so close to their den. He had to figure a whole lot of them would be scrambled in minutes. Also hard to figure why he'd do it with cold whether approaching rather than in April.

[Spikender]

They used Bryon Dickson's handcuffs, and drove Frein off in Dickson's old squad car. How petty and cheesy.

Since I doubt he was cuffed originally with Dickson's handcuffs, I can only assume they kept them around and changed the cuffs out.

Don't worry, the cops aren't done jacking off just yet. They are going to rub this in Frein's and everybody else's faces for as long as they can.

[S.Shorland]

Maybe they'll make him live in Dickson's house,adopt his kids and give him his old job with a promotion.

[staerker]

He should certainly be assumed innocent ACCORDING TO THE LAW but I'm personally not going to make any assumption. Admittedly, the fact that they cared this much to catch him is telling, but it could well just be that they felt like it was an insult to their honor that a "cop killer" was able to get away for so long.

Well, it is more than just about the law. And I am more of a no assumptions type of guy too, but this is about reputation. I think you're forgetting...

The institution of government is evil. By worldwide standards, our government is corrupt. It has been known to utilize false flags regularly. The very institution of a police force is evil. By our government's standard, our police force is corrupt.

Couple that with that fact that I been presented zero evidence of any crime.

If an 'assumption' were to ever be made, this one is it. Am I saying definitively that he is innocent? No. I am saying there is zero reason to believe otherwise.

[Philhelm]

lol, I'm going on 30 years.

But I've always had the impression that you were older than 30.

[presence]

Eric Frein surrendered to U.S. marshals, did not put up a fight, state police said

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/AP_Eric_Frein_bc_141031_16x9_608.jpg

They ordered him to surrender and fall to his knees, Noonan said, and Frein complied.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1R1P9NIEAMQ_4j.jpg


funny looks like they beat his face in

528174264948916224

[Spikender]

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/AP_Eric_Frein_bc_141031_16x9_608.jpg

"He got on his knees and surrendered his face to the officer's fists peacefully"

[RonPaulIsGreat]

I always get a little sad when someone gets captured that the powers that be really want. I guess, I just don't like any system that is inescapable. It doesn't really have to do much with the "crime". There is just something wrong with a system that always gets their man when they really want to. Don't like that.

Of course, they don't always get their man, when it is deemed a crime of low importance, like the murder of some nobody.

[pcosmar]

He supposedly was a survivalist. So... I got nothing when they say weather was a factor.

"If it ain't rainin', we ain't trainin'."

;)

[S.Shorland]

They let filmstars get away with drug 'offences' time after time into rehab because they give people the impression or hope that escape is possible (or we wouldn't suspend disbelief when watching them in some state sanctioned support role)

I always get a little sad when someone gets captured that the powers that be really want. I guess, I just don't like any system that is inescapable. It doesn't really have to do much with the "crime". There is just something wrong with a system that always gets their man when they really want to. Don't like that.

Of course, they don't always get their man, when it is deemed a crime of low importance, like the murder of some nobody.

[Root]

Boo!!! I was Rooting for the guy. Sad they found him so close to home. I had hoped he'd be in another state. I'm sure he will see plenty of "just-us"

[AuH20]

This is a complicated case at first glance. I hope he had a legitimate reason for killing and injuring the state troopers. With that said, I'm not buying the whole coward angle being parroted on the news. When they send a SWAT team to your home at 3 AM, wouldn't that be considered "cowardly?"

[tod evans]

When they send a SWAT team to your home at 3 AM, wouldn't that be considered "cowardly?"

Absolutely!

[oyarde]

This is a complicated case at first glance. I hope he had a legitimate reason for killing and injuring the state troopers. With that said, I'm not buying the whole coward angle being parroted on the news. When they send a SWAT team to your home at 3 AM, wouldn't that be considered "cowardly?"

Yes , bad form in fact .

[Anti Federalist]

I always get a little sad when someone gets captured that the powers that be really want. I guess, I just don't like any system that is inescapable. It doesn't really have to do much with the "crime". There is just something wrong with a system that always gets their man when they really want to. Don't like that.

Of course, they don't always get their man, when it is deemed a crime of low importance, like the murder of some nobody.

They don't even come close.

The only time you can count on them "getting their man" is when an orgasm of resources spew forth to catch somebody accused of killing one of the King's Men.


Report Shows High Number of Unsolved Murders in U.S.

Posted: Jun 04, 2010 12:58 AM EST Updated: Jun 04, 2010 10:31 AM EST

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/12593189/report-shows-high-number-of-unsolved-murders-in-us

LAS VEGAS- Each year 6,000 killers get away with murder in America. That's according to a study of FBI records. The study found the rate of solved homicides since 1980 nationwide is 63%. In Clark County, the rate is 57%.

[Ender]

I see no reason to support this guy who probably killed 2 people.

It's the "probably" that's important.

Innocent until PROVEN guilty is an essential to freedom- not vs/vs.

[pcosmar]

It's the "probably" that's important.

Innocent until PROVEN guilty is an essential to freedom- not vs/vs.

Exactly.
There is an accusation that he shot the Cops.. but little proof of such. Just the media repeating the accusation.

just like the Dorner incident. Accusations,, repeated by media,, with no actual evidence presented.

[JK/SEA]

didn't put up a fight......yet he looks like Foreman after Ali kicked his ass......wait...he must've tripped getting into the car or somethin'...

[Anti Federalist]

didn't put up a fight......yet he looks like Foreman after Ali kicked his ass......wait...he must've tripped getting into the car or somethin'...

Poor bastard is gonna "trip on the soap in the shower" 100 times in the next few weeks.

[JK/SEA]

Poor bastard is gonna "trip on the soap in the shower" 100 times in the next few weeks.

being in hell has many definitions...

i don't condone what he 'ALLEGEDLY' did................but i completely understand why...

[specsaregood]

With that said, I'm not buying the whole coward angle being parroted on the news.

I can only assume they started spreading that meme when they picked up that some people were starting to push a hero meme online and around. Wouldn't want any other would-be shooters to think they would come off as heros/noble or any such idea. Make sure anybody wishing to copy his actions knows before hand that they will go down in the books as a coward.

[Christian Liberty]

I know this is sort of off topic for this thread, but I don't understand why you have such a double standard for cops. I can understand holding them up to the same standard as a normal citizen. And I can understand holding them up to Biblical standards. What I don't get, is why you randomly support the death penalty based on what appears to be solely ancap prejudice.

What do you mean "ancap prejudice" exactly?

I explained why. Its because of the sheer amount of power involved. Those people have the legal right to have their way with you, and you will be killed if you resist. That's why.


You have made up your own set of capital crimes, 'Freedom Fanatics Torah' we could call it.

I could take an accusation like this from a theonomist, but the average Christian just totally makes up their list of crimes as they go along. At least I have reasons for mine.

[Anti Federalist]

I can only assume they started spreading that meme when they picked up that some people were starting to push a hero meme online and around. Wouldn't want any other would-be shooters to think they would come off as heros/noble or any such idea. Make sure anybody wishing to copy his actions knows before hand that they will go down in the books as a coward.

That is the reason for the overwhelming cop response, and why they'll kill this man inside of two years.

You do not DARE raise your hand to a King's Man, knave,

I'm surprised they don't draw and quarter him and send his body parts to all four corners of the King's Realm, like they did to William Wallace.

[jonhowe]

I will take this down, if and when I determine he is guilty of murder. Until then:

http://s13.postimg.org/vw9s3ujmv/hero.png

Hero for doing what? Either he shot someone unprovoked (and he's a murderer) or he didn't (and hes a guy running around in the woods for no particular reason).

[AuH20]

Hero for doing what? Either he shot someone unprovoked (and he's a murderer) or he didn't (and hes a guy running around in the woods for no particular reason).

We really don't know what his motivations are. He could be a complete crackpot for all we know.

[Sonny Tufts]

Innocent until PROVEN guilty is an essential to freedom- not vs/vs.

Tell that to the people on this thread who have already convicted the police of beating Frein.

[jonhowe]

just like the Dorner incident. Accusations,, repeated by media,, with no actual evidence presented.

What do you mean no evidence presented? Do you want them to fly you out to the crime scene so you can investigate yourself?

[jonhowe]

We really don't know what his motivations are. He could be a complete crackpot for all we know.

True enough. He could have had a reason in his head to kill the cop, but that does not justify him in taking another human life. Unless he was in imminent danger, which does not seem to be the case in the initial shooting.

[JK/SEA]

What do you mean no evidence presented? Do you want them to fly you out to the crime scene so you can investigate yourself?

uh...no...we get our facts from Hannity around here...

[pcosmar]

What do you mean no evidence presented? Do you want them to fly you out to the crime scene so you can investigate yourself?

NO.
That is what a trial is for. But he was executed (Dorner) without trial.

(the intent to execute was clear from the citizens shot)

[pcosmar]

True enough. He could have had a reason in his head to kill the cop, but that does not justify him in taking another human life. Unless he was in imminent danger, which does not seem to be the case in the initial shooting.

There is such a thing as Justifiable Homicide..
I have no idea if this was the case. but then I have no idea if he was in, fact, the shooter.

It is clear that he was not "hunting cops" as was reported earlier. If he had been,, there would have been more dead cops.
He may have been hiding simply because he knew he was set up for it.
It is not likely he will get a fair trial

[jonhowe]

uh...no...we get our facts from Hannity around here...

My point is, unless you go there yourself and see the evidence in person, there's always someone presenting the news to you. pcosmar always brings this up as a reason not to believe the "official story". But it is ALWAYS the case.

By his logic Frein might not even exist. He might be a completely made up person.

[pcosmar]

By his logic Frein might not even exist. He might be a completely made up person.

As with all stories presented by people that are known liars,, any story is questionable.

[JK/SEA]

As with all stories presented by people that are known liars,, any story is questionable.

wouldn't it be nice to live in a society where everyone was truthful and forthright?...

This is why i donate to SETI....

[pcosmar]

wouldn't it be nice to live in a society where everyone was truthful and forthright?...


It would be nice if honesty was not so damn rare.

If reporters actually asked questions, rather than parroting the "Official Reports". or worse yet,,copy/pasting AP and Reuters.

My personal suspicion,, after following this case loosely.. is that IF he did in fact kill this cop,, it was for a specific reason,, and whether that reason was a good one or not,,, would be up to a jury to decide.

There is obviously more to this than the propaganda outlets want to publish.

[staerker]

Hero for doing what? Either he shot someone unprovoked (and he's a murderer) or he didn't (and hes a guy running around in the woods for no particular reason).

Really? He is a hero because for seven weeks he single-handedly outwitted a corrupt government who used 9.6 million FRNs worth of resources.

You and I know that, if innocent, he wasn't "running around in the woods for no particular reason."

[tangent4ronpaul]

There is such a thing as Justifiable Homicide..
I have no idea if this was the case. but then I have no idea if he was in, fact, the shooter.

It is clear that he was not "hunting cops" as was reported earlier. If he had been,, there would have been more dead cops.
He may have been hiding simply because he knew he was set up for it.
It is not likely he will get a fair trial

OK, I'll bite. This is what stinks about the whole story:

They found his SUV crashed in a swamp 3 days after the shooting. In it they found 2 rifle cases, supplies, his drivers licence and shell cases from the shooting...
First off, his license plates would be enough to ID the SUV as his. Why did he leave his drivers licence in there? It sort of reminds me of that totally unscathed passport found on the ground in front of the WTC on 9/11 - really fishy.

Second, they didn't have the rifle until yesterday. You need physical possession of a firearm before you can forensically match ejection and fireing pin marks to it, so how did they know that brass was associated with the shooting?

They announced really too soon that he was captured with the murder weapon. Even being put in the front of the line and given a rush priority, that's way too fast for the results to definitely say that.

So yeah, some fishy things here.

-t

[jonhowe]

Really? He is a hero because for seven weeks he single-handedly outwitted a corrupt government who used 9.6 million FRNs worth of resources.

You and I know that, if innocent, he wasn't "running around in the woods for no particular reason."

Outwitting people we already know to be incompetent is a heroic thing? Causing millions of dollars to be wasted paying cops' over time is heroic?

Obama outwitted the american people and is wasting money; he must be a hero!

[pcosmar]

Hero for doing what? Either he shot someone unprovoked (and he's a murderer) or he didn't (and hes a guy running around in the woods for no particular reason).

Or option three,, he is innocent and was running because he was accused and had no way of defending himself against the charge,, or those trying to kill him.

Or option 4,, he shot a criminal that is/was being protected by the State.

I have come to NO Conclusions.

[pcosmar]

They announced really too soon that he was captured with the murder weapon. Even being put in the front of the line and given a rush priority, that's way too fast for the results to definitely say that.

So yeah, some fishy things here.
-t
Yeah,, sort of like Dorner"s weapon,, (which he never used)
The sniper rifle that was displayed after his death.

Did they recover that intact rifle from the burned out home,, or from his burned out truck?

http://kytx.images.worldnow.com/images/21083357_BG1.jpg

[staerker]

Outwitting people we already know to be incompetent is a heroic thing? Causing millions of dollars to be wasted paying cops' over time is heroic?

Obama outwitted the american people and is wasting money; he must be a hero!

He outwitted the modern surveillance state, not some beat cop.

And really? You seriously think he spent that money? Did he collect that money? Did he sign the check? My goodness, assign responsibility where you know it is due. Our corrupt government wasted that money.

You last statement does not follow.

[devil21]

It would be nice if honesty was not so damn rare.

If reporters actually asked questions, rather than parroting the "Official Reports". or worse yet,,copy/pasting AP and Reuters.

My personal suspicion,, after following this case loosely.. is that IF he did in fact kill this cop,, it was for a specific reason,, and whether that reason was a good one or not,,, would be up to a jury to decide.

There is obviously more to this than the propaganda outlets want to publish.

I'm pretty well convinced, after checking out evidence dug up by independent investigators on other websites, that this whole thing was a police drill scenario and most of the story is fabricated. People will believe what they want to believe I guess....

[Anti Federalist]

Good run Eric.

Got a neg rep for that.

I stand by it.

Good run...made a whole squadron of the hut hutting police state look like a bunch of jackasses, and helped to keep them from ruining other people's lives and days, (see graphics posted that show tickets and police actions down by some +40% in the effected counties) for a full seven weeks.

Maybe some baby burning SWAT raid never happened because the asshole cops were too busy hunting down the desperate and dangerous Eric Frein.

[TheCount]

Don't you mean that people will disbelieve what they want to disbelieve?

The news report that a US Gov paid rocket launch crashed is automatically believed, because it fits with a 'the government is incompetent' worldview. On the flip side, any news story which could appear negative for liberty causes is automatically disbelieved.

[pcosmar]

Don't you mean that people will disbelieve what they want to disbelieve?

The news report that a US Gov paid rocket launch crashed is automatically believed, because it fits with a 'the government is incompetent' worldview. On the flip side, any news story which could appear negative for liberty causes is automatically disbelieved.

I do not start with any preconceived notion,, beyond that the government and media are essentially dishonest.

I observe.. I seek information elsewhere. and I sometimes come to a conclusion,,

Regardless,, I start with a position of skepticism. I make my own decisions and come to my own conclusions on what I believe.

[devil21]

Don't you mean that people will disbelieve what they want to disbelieve?

Seems to me to be the same thing. 6 or a half dozen?



The news report that a US Gov paid rocket launch crashed is automatically believed, because it fits with a 'the government is incompetent' worldview. On the flip side, any news story which could appear negative for liberty causes is automatically disbelieved.

Exploding rocket had video evidence, at least. Evidence of the actual background of the person purported to be "Eric Frein" is very, very different than the background presented by the media and is in no way aligned with libertarian ideology. Unless one considers being an avid communist and a military intelligence operative to be "libertarian".

[aGameOfThrones]

Got a neg rep for that.

I stand by it.

Good run...made a whole squadron of the hut hutting police state look like a bunch of jackasses, and helped to keep them from ruining other people's lives and days, (see graphics posted that show tickets and police actions down by some +40% in the effected counties) for a full seven weeks.

Maybe some baby burning SWAT raid never happened because the asshole cops were too busy hunting down the desperate and dangerous Eric Frein.


The Eric Frein Event showed the "Freedoms" you "have" when a Holy Cop gets murdered. Now they can continue throwing grenades at babies sleeping in their cribs all "innocent" and shit.

[TheCount]

Regardless,, I start with a position of skepticism. I make my own decisions and come to my own conclusions on what I believe.

Okay, starting from a position of skepticism, what makes more sense:

1) The government executed a poorly organized $10 million manhunt to find a self-trained "survivalist" criminal and only found him due to luck.

2) The government executed a flawless false flag with 0 leaks whatsoever, used the situation for 0 legislative benefit, and ended the operation after 7 weeks having accomplished... what, closing some park land during the hunting season? Inconveniencing locals? Harassing a guy who walks to work?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Okay, starting from a position of skepticism, what makes more sense:

1) The government executed a poorly organized $10 million manhunt to find a self-trained "survivalist" criminal and only found him due to luck.

2) The government executed a flawless false flag with 0 leaks whatsoever, used the situation for 0 legislative benefit, and ended the operation after 7 weeks having accomplished... what, closing some park land during the hunting season? Inconveniencing locals? Harassing a guy who walks to work?

1 sounds like SOP.

2 well, they established a precedent for violating peoples civil rights and got practice doing martial law, Just like Boston and got practive doing manhunts and using shiny new cop toys. Doing a zero leak false flag isn't hard if there are only a handful of conspirators and they are the ones giving the orders and finally it's a bit early for any legislation to come out of this. Might want to watch PA elections, though...

-t

[TheCount]

2 well, they established a precedent for violating peoples civil rights and got practice doing martial law, Just like Boston and got practive doing manhunts and using shiny new cop toys. Doing a zero leak false flag isn't hard if there are only a handful of conspirators and they are the ones giving the orders and finally it's a bit early for any legislation to come out of this.

So, no tangible benefit.

[devil21]

So, no tangible benefit.

As many tangible benefits as can be derived from a 'realistic' training exercise. I'm still not entirely clear on how this whole thing went down but my bet based on extensive research (admittedly by others) is that "Eric Frein", a highly trained military intelligence officer, was set loose in the woods as the target of a manhunt under a fake story perpetuated by the media, thus giving local and federal authorities free reign to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do. Cordoning off neighborhoods, playing in the woods for weeks with their toys at taxpayer expense, testing public reactions and compliance to warrantless searches, "shelter in place" orders, prohibition of use of public land on order alone (agenda 21-esque), etc. There is evidence that an active shooter drill scenario was scheduled for 2014, as far back as 2012, in the same county that this occurred in.

There was the original report of a cop being shot and a person-of-interest being immediately taken into custody but that narrative quickly was replaced by the Frein survivalist story. Not sure if there really was a shooting in the very beginning but I'm convinced everything that happened after those initial reports was drill scenarios. We'll probably never know the exact story but it's most certainly NOT the story the media and LEO brass have been passing off.

Never let a crisis go to waste, after all.

(eta: if anyone wants a link to the evidence and research just PM me)

[PaulConventionWV]

Wonder how many copsuckers fully approve of whatever assbeating he was given?

Cops are pissed they couldn't just kill him outright.

Why couldn't they... why didn't they?

[Spikender]

Why couldn't they... why didn't they?

He's going to be more useful alive.

They can jack off the police state in our faces even longer with his life spared.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Why couldn't they... why didn't they?

1) he surrendered
2) The Marshal Service arrested him, not the cops.

-t

[fr33]

I was hoping he'd escape the area and never get caught.

[Christian Liberty]

I always get a little sad when someone gets captured that the powers that be really want. I guess, I just don't like any system that is inescapable. It doesn't really have to do much with the "crime". There is just something wrong with a system that always gets their man when they really want to. Don't like that.

Of course, they don't always get their man, when it is deemed a crime of low importance, like the murder of some nobody.

Yeah, I can sympathize with that.

[sparebulb]

1) he surrendered
2) The Marshal Service arrested him, not the cops.

-t

These two facts lead me to believe that he was watching them more closely than they will give him credit for, and that he executed a well-reasoned strategy to surrender with the maximum chances of living through it.

Whether he lives through trial and his ultimate delivery to prison or the gallows is another matter.

[presence]

1) he surrendered
2) The Marshal Service arrested him, not the cops.

-t


Its my understanding that they weren't even looking for him and stumbled upon him during a routine airport patrol. Frein was unarmed.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Its my understanding that they weren't even looking for him and stumbled upon him during a routine airport patrol. Frein was unarmed.

It's hard to justify installing air conditioning in an unarmed man.

-t

[Working Poor]

Maybe it is a false flag I haven't checked the area this happened in but I wonder if there is some kind of gun grab bill or something in the state congress this happened in?

Anyway I could think of a lot better way to spend my time than plotting to kill anyone for any reason. Killing is stupid, thinking about killing is stupid but, on the other hand maybe it is a way of culling the stupid.

I think I will go see if I can find some sunshine and rainbows somewheres...

[pcosmar]

Okay, starting from a position of skepticism, what makes more sense:

1) The government executed a poorly organized $10 million manhunt to find a self-trained "survivalist" criminal and only found him due to luck.

2) The government executed a flawless false flag with 0 leaks whatsoever, used the situation for 0 legislative benefit, and ended the operation after 7 weeks having accomplished... what, closing some park land during the hunting season? Inconveniencing locals? Harassing a guy who walks to work?

Of those choices I would take choice 2.
Zero leaks because only a few knew that the flag was false,, all the cops are dumb-asses just following orders. (like they would question orders anyway) And they were well paid anyway.
As to what benefit,,
I expect that the "police need more support" will be trotted out. And the locals need to be conditioned to the police state.

Perhaps they wanted to flush out any would be supporters. I am guessing there are several potential "benefits" that I have not even considered.

[Dr.3D]

It's hard to justify installing air conditioning in an unarmed man.

-t
It's a wonder they didn't do it anyway and arm him afterwards.

[squarepusher]

This is beginning to look like a false flag. Wake up, Sheeple.
They probably had him in a holding cell for 2 months then released him Wednesday when they were ready to "capture" him

[jonhowe]

He outwitted the modern surveillance state, not some beat cop.

And really? You seriously think he spent that money? Did he collect that money? Did he sign the check? My goodness, assign responsibility where you know it is due. Our corrupt government wasted that money.



I think we can all agree (except for Squarepusher, below) that Frein is a pretty bright guy. He knew this type of manhunt would happen; he anticipated it and planned for it, apparently for years. What was accomplished? Millions of dollars wasted. An innocent man dead (yes, he's a cop. Cops are people. A lot aren't good people. Many are criminals. There is no reason to assume this one was, though, and CERTAINLY no reason has been presented, legal or otherwise, to justify his murder). Judging by how this forum has rallied behind him, I wouldn't be surprised if he delivers some faux-liberty manifesto next.


Everyone on this forum knows our government is corrupt and wastes money. Most people in this COUNTRY accept that, to some degree.


This is beginning to look like a false flag. Wake up, Sheeple.
They probably had him in a holding cell for 2 months then released him Wednesday when they were ready to "capture" him

You literally just made that up. On the spot. There is no more evidence of that then there is that I was born on Mars. But you don't know where I was born, and Mars is the furthest away thing I can think of at the moment, so I'm just going to claim I was born there. Now accept it as true or you're a sheep.




The Eric Frein Event showed the "Freedoms" you "have" when a Holy Cop gets murdered. Now they can continue throwing grenades at babies sleeping in their cribs all "innocent" and shit.



Jesus H Christ, I thought this was a forum that believed in INDIVIDUAL rights. The cop Frein shot HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THROWING GRENADES AT BABIES! As far as we know, he was just like every other cop; someone to be wary around, likely a jerk, but not someone you can simply shoot on sight.

Frein has had internet access; if he wanted to give his side of the story, if he was being framed for example, why hasn't he? This doesn't make him GUILTY, but it makes these wide eyed "maybe he had a good reason!" theories seem even more ridiculous.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Frein has had internet access; if he wanted to give his side of the story, if he was being framed for example, why hasn't he? This doesn't make him GUILTY, but it makes these wide eyed "maybe he had a good reason!" theories seem even more ridiculous.

SIMPLY ACCESSING THAT SHIT IS HOW THEY TRACK YOU DOWN AND KILL YOU.

-t

[jonhowe]

SIMPLY ACCESSING THAT SHIT IS HOW THEY TRACK YOU DOWN AND KILL YOU.

-t

He allegedly used the internet to plan this attack for years. He had time to put up a manifesto had wanted to. Unless every piece of information we're getting is false (in which case there may BE no Frein!), this was not a spur of the moment thing; his pre-planning was what allowed him to survive/evade for 7 weeks. It was premeditated, planned, supplies were hidden strategically, and if he had wanted to give a reason for the attack he could have.

Unless he dies in the next couple of days, in custody, we're going to get to hear his side at some point. I honestly worry he's going to come out with a "if only we had voted Ron Paul" type statement, but perhaps I'm just being paranoid due to all the hero worship of an alleged murderer on this forum (I've really never seen anything like it!).

Also, they tracked him down and DIDN'T kill him. We should be glad of that, and I'm sure he counts himself as lucky, given how trigger happy cops often are (or, maybe he's just smart and made sure the Marshals got him 1st, as someone mentioned. In which case I'm sure he'll be smart enough to get at least some of his story out. Assuming he has one, and it's something other than "I hate cops and shot some").

We SHOULD be outraged that they obviously beat the shit out of the guy before they got him in front of the cameras. We SHOULD be outraged that police agencies waste money and abuse power every single day. We SHOULD be outraged that cops are disproportionately thuggish and nasty. But we should NOT be calling an alleged murderer a hero just because his victim was a random cop instead of a random 'civilian'.

[fr33]

Jesus H Christ, I thought this was a forum that believed in INDIVIDUAL rights. The cop Frein shot HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THROWING GRENADES AT BABIES! As far as we know, he was just like every other cop; someone to be wary around, likely a jerk, but not someone you can simply shoot on sight.

Surely you already know individual rights aren't really recognized by the laws on the books in this country or in the assortment of states involved in this empire. Find me a cop "on the beat" that hasn't locked someone up for a crime without a victim and you will have found that needle in a barn full of haystacks.

You want us to sit back and take it while hoping that in another hundred years of voting things change while they kill or cage us.

As far as I'm concerned, the war on drugs is the war on us and I realize who my enemy is. He and she wear badges and uniforms and they put that target on themselves. Good riddance to them when they get their comeuppance.

[Tod]

Surely you already know individual rights aren't really recognized by the laws on the books in this country or in the assortment of states involved in this empire. Find me a cop "on the beat" that hasn't locked someone up for a crime without a victim and you will have found that needle in a barn full of haystacks.

You want us to sit back and take it while hoping that in another hundred years of voting things change while they kill or cage us.

As far as I'm concerned, the war on drugs is the war on us and I realize who my enemy is. He and she wear badges and uniforms and they put that target on themselves. Good riddance to them when they get their comeuppance.

The REAL enemy is the everyday person who obediently pays his taxes and obeys unjust laws.......because if no one did as they were told, Hitler would have just been a crazy nutjob preaching on the corner.

Read Larken Rose's new book, "The Most Dangerous Superstition", he lays it out much better than I ever could.

[fr33]

The REAL enemy is the everyday person who obediently pays his taxes and obeys unjust laws.......because if no one did as they were told, Hitler would have just been a crazy nutjob preaching on the corner.

Read Larken Rose's new book, "The Most Dangerous Superstition", he lays it out much better than I ever could.

I own the book. I just haven't read it yet. Probably because it's going to be a lot of stuff that I already know.

The author also made this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cElTyqJkMEw

But here's the thing; if a kidnapper without a badge or uniform attacks me, people like jonhowe are ok with me killing them. Put that magic cloak on them and I'm just supposed to put up with it.

Admittedly, to me it would have been even better had Frein been in court or in the process of being arrested when he started shooting. The authorities don't recognize our rights and the people that support them don't either for the most part. I can't help but supporting targeting those in charge of violating us. They chose that job. Deal with the consequences.

[Dianne]

I'm pretty well convinced, after checking out evidence dug up by independent investigators on other websites, that this whole thing was a police drill scenario and most of the story is fabricated. People will believe what they want to believe I guess....

Well that would explain why his hairstyle, lenth, shape, style etc. did not change after 45 days in the woods. I just assumed he brought a personal hairdresser to the mountains with him lol...

[Czolgosz]

Surely you already know individual rights aren't really recognized by the laws on the books in this country or in the assortment of states involved in this empire. Find me a cop "on the beat" that hasn't locked someone up for a crime without a victim and you will have found that needle in a barn full of haystacks.

You want us to sit back and take it while hoping that in another hundred years of voting things change while they kill or cage us.

As far as I'm concerned, the war on drugs is the war on us and I realize who my enemy is. He and she wear badges and uniforms and they put that target on themselves. Good riddance to them when they get their comeuppance.

+1

[staerker]

I think we can all agree (except for Squarepusher, below) that Frein is a pretty bright guy. He knew this type of manhunt would happen; he anticipated it and planned for it, apparently for years. What was accomplished? Millions of dollars wasted. An innocent man dead (yes, he's a cop. Cops are people. A lot aren't good people. Many are criminals. There is no reason to assume this one was, though, and CERTAINLY no reason has been presented, legal or otherwise, to justify his murder). Judging by how this forum has rallied behind him, I wouldn't be surprised if he delivers some faux-liberty manifesto next.


Everyone on this forum knows our government is corrupt and wastes money. Most people in this COUNTRY accept that, to some degree.

Once again, you are mistaking one party's actions for another's.

Frein did not ' waste ' any of the money, and is therefore not responsible in *any* way, for how it was handled.

The only information we have on the issue comes from a single, corrupt first party.

The same entity that lies° to us on a daily basis. Add it up man.

°and steals, and beats, and imprisons.

[jonhowe]

Once again, you are mistaking one party's actions for another's.

Frein did not ' waste ' any of the money, and is therefore not responsible in *any* way, for how it was handled.

The only information we have on the issue comes from a single, corrupt first party.

The same entity that lies° to us on a daily basis. Add it up man.

°and steals, and beats, and imprisons.

I'm not mistaking anything. Frein is 100% responsible for the wasted money, assuming he is found guilty of killing the officer. He (or whoever committed the crime) anticipated, and purposefully kicked off, a manhunt.

Someone sniped a cop. Frein is the main suspect. We have no reason to believe he's being framed (no apparent motive to do so, no apparent defense of his actions, he's a known marksman and survival enthusiast, his sister says he probably did it, known to dislike law enforcement, etc), at least not yet. We should all support his right to a fair and impartial trial (meaning, they 100% have to move it out of the area) with a strong and competent defense. The facts deserve to be heard. But we should not all be supporting someone BECAUSE they may have shot a cop, which is the issue here.




Surely you already know individual rights aren't really recognized by the laws on the books in this country or in the assortment of states involved in this empire. Find me a cop "on the beat" that hasn't locked someone up for a crime without a victim and you will have found that needle in a barn full of haystacks.

You want us to sit back and take it while hoping that in another hundred years of voting things change while they kill or cage us.

As far as I'm concerned, the war on drugs is the war on us and I realize who my enemy is. He and she wear badges and uniforms and they put that target on themselves. Good riddance to them when they get their comeuppance.

I'm sorry (actually, I'm not), but the war on drugs and the corruption among police does not justify murder at random.

You may hate cops, but I'm sure this cop's son misses his dad just as much the victims of police violence do. It's not your place, or Frein's place, to decide who lives or dies simply because you don't like the state of the nation right now.

[tod evans]

I'm not mistaking anything. Frein is 100% responsible for the wasted money, assuming he is found guilty of killing the officer. He (or whoever committed the crime) anticipated, and purposefully kicked off, a manhunt.

Oh bullshit!

I've not seen kops roll out this type of parade for anyone but another kop...


Someone sniped a cop. Frein is the main suspect. We have no reason to believe he's being framed (no apparent motive to do so, no apparent defense of his actions, he's a known marksman and survival enthusiast, his sister says he probably did it, known to dislike law enforcement, etc), at least not yet. We should all support his right to a fair and impartial trial (meaning, they 100% have to move it out of the area) with a strong and competent defense. The facts deserve to be heard. But we should not all be supporting someone BECAUSE they may have shot a cop, which is the issue here.

I have no reason to believe what's set forth in the newz by governments spokesmen, what you believe is your prerogative.





I'm sorry (actually, I'm not), but the war on drugs and the corruption among police does not justify murder at random.

No it doesn't but kops, ALL KOPS, have declared a war, they're armed and dangerous, obviously hunting the citizenry so this particular instance might actually be vengeance for the kops behavior in which case I wouldn't view it as murder.




You may hate cops, but I'm sure this cop's son misses his dad just as much the victims of police violence do. It's not your place, or Frein's place, to decide who lives or dies simply because you don't like the state of the nation right now.

Nor is it some low IQ kops place to decide which citizen gets gunned down in the street like a dog, or which woman gets assaulted or baby blown up yet that's exactly what's happening in this war they've declared.

If you're so against fighting back that's up to you but when you talk bad about some dude with the balls to use their own tactics back on them I've got to wonder whose agenda you're pushin'?

[otherone]

You may hate cops, but I'm sure this cop's son misses his dad just as much the victims of police violence do. It's not your place, or Frein's place, to decide who lives or dies simply because you don't like the state of the nation right now.

The "state of the nation" is why no one should believe anything claimed by the police or the media.

[Anti Federalist]

Jesus H Christ, I thought this was a forum that believed in INDIVIDUAL rights. The cop Frein shot HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THROWING GRENADES AT BABIES! As far as we know, he was just like every other cop; someone to be wary around, likely a jerk, but not someone you can simply shoot on sight.

Is it war, or is it not?

Believe me, it is not what I want, but I'm not the one pushing it.

I'm not the one using military equipment, applying military rank to myself, using military tactics and running around saying we are at war.

Well, they called down the thunder, and therefore they cannot legitimately cry tears when the "enemy" strikes back. (Regardless of what Frein's motivations may or may not have been.)

This is as ridiculous as the wide eyed wonder at some jihadist shooting a soldier in Canada recently.

The nation's enforcers have been bombing and blowing shit up in the Middle East for 50 + years now, at the direction of the Great White Father in DC.

Don't act all surprised when somebody strikes back, and strikes back at the uniform.

Don't want to be collectivized?

Don't join a gang.

That's precisely what they tell us.

That said, I still don't condone what he allegedly did.

I understand it, based on what we know.

And I still say it was good thing that police enforcement activity was down over 40 percent in the area while everybody was hut hutting around in the woods.

That's one little girl that didn't get a bullet in the brain from a wrong house SWAT raid.

That's one man's life that was not ruined for driving home after having an after work beer at the bar.

That's one homeless man who didn't get a police beating.

That's one baby that didn't get a grenade in the face.

That's one little boy's dog that didn't get shot.

That's one woman that didn't get sexually assaulted on the side of the road looking for drugs.

Maybe, if people would pay attention, they could capitalize on that, and move to reduce the police force in the area by 40 percent, since it's obvious anarchy and mayhem does not follow when enforcement of the King's Rules drops by 40 percent.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm not mistaking anything. Frein is 100% responsible for the wasted money, assuming he is found guilty of killing the officer. He (or whoever committed the crime) anticipated, and purposefully kicked off, a manhunt.

Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this as well.

Not one tenth of the resources that went into this would have been expended had you or I or some other mundane been killed.

Whether that was anticipated or the purpose of it, is open to debate, but nobody but the cops are responsible for the massive police response.

They could have responded in the same fashion as they would have for one of us, and none of this manhunt nonsense and the loss of money to area businesses would have happened.

And they probably would have caught him more quickly as well.

But no, can't have that, this man dared raise his hand against a King's Man, which is the same as assaulting the King himself, and all this was a warning to any other uppity mundanes in the Occupied Zone.


It's not your place, or Frein's place, to decide who lives or dies simply because you don't like the state of the nation right now.

Cops claim that right over us.

Under the CFC, if you so much as twitch funny, a cop can blow you away and claim that he felt his safety was at risk, and skate.

[Chester Copperpot]

We really don't know what his motivations are. He could be a complete crackpot for all we know.

Maybe he was trying to get suspended from work with pay?

[NewRightLibertarian]

Frein is no hero, but I'm not going cry over the cops he killed. If you join the police, you join a violent dangerous criminal gang. Just like I don't shed tears when a Crip or a Blood is murdered, I don't get sappy when one of these pigs is killed either.

[phill4paul]

Don't act all surprised when somebody strikes back, and strikes back at the uniform.

Don't want to be collectivized?

Don't join a gang.

Exactly.

[daviddee]

...

[presence]

Don't act all surprised when somebody strikes back, and strikes back at the uniform.

Don't want to be collectivized?

Don't join a gang.



Epic.

[pcosmar]

Someone sniped a cop. Frein is the main suspect. .

That is the story. but it is only the story because that is what the Police Spokesman says.

I have no idea. Perhaps he died of a heart attack,, but they needed a training exercise.
or perhaps it was "friendly fire" and they don't want to say that.

We have only the word of the Paid Mouthpiece.

[outspoken]

Frein is a spineless coward and there's no place in a civilized society for such a psychopath assuming he is guilty as charged. I can't believe that any of those that follow and support Ron Paul could condone such callous acts of violence. Yes, there's a few bad cops (just like any other profession) and we have govt that overplays it authoritarian hand but snipping off innocent people doing their job is evil.

[specsaregood]

Frein is a spineless coward and there's no place in a civilized society for such a psychopath assuming he is guilty as charged. I can't believe that any of those that follow and support Ron Paul could condone such callous acts of violence. Yes, there's a few bad cops (just like any other profession) and we have govt that overplays it authoritarian hand but snipping off innocent people doing their job is evil.

How do you know the cop he killed was innocent? Do you expect that same authoritarian hand to tell you if he wasn't innocent? Just wondering..
As for me, the jury is still out.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Frein is a spineless coward and there's no place in a civilized society for such a psychopath...


Eh, it wouldn't be my style if it ever came to some desperation; however, there are many situations like this. Short of some kind of volleying between two parties, then most other situations mean that you get some kind of advantage on the other person.

A sniper is not the only example. One might be dropping bombs on a sleeping enemy. Maybe you fire at an enemy with his side to you. I heard a soldier tell how he shot his prisoner in the back of the head while they were walking because the soldier was afraid of eventually falling asleep.

Killing a person is going to be of hell of a crazy thing no matter how it's done.

[osan]

Apparently the weather got him. Since the start, temps have dropped 30 degrees and it was below freezing at night.
He had a hunting rifle with him when caught and the marshals service are the ones that tracked him down.
He did not put up a fight.
Like Dorner, he lost weapons and supplies in a car accident early on.
I have no idea why he stayed in the area...
I bet he is kicking himself right now for not taking flying lessons...

-t

Yes, this is perplexing. I'd have been in Patagonia by now.

[osan]

lol, I'm going on 30 years.


Do you want it? Do you need it?

For pity's sake... get a room.

[osan]

He supposedly was a survivalist. So... I got nothing when they say weather was a factor.


I'm guessing that the people who do this stuff work on the escape plan as an afterthought or don't plan for contingencies. Over half the effort needs to go into the egress phase of the operation. Ingress and the raid itself are relatively easy in comparison to a successful egress.


Yeah, messing up his car must have put a serious dent in his plans. Still he had pre-positioned stuff all over so it seems like his plan was to stay in the area.
Why on earth didn't he do this in the spring?
I guess the trial is going to be his soapbox. Wonder why on earth he did this??? :confused:

-t


Agreed. I had thought that the car that was stolen and ended up in N.Y. was him. Why the hell remain in the area if all your caches are compromised? Either he is a dipshit or a psy-op.

There is much here that does not add up, and not adding up has become the norm.

[Anti Federalist]

Frein is a spineless coward and there's no place in a civilized society for such a psychopath assuming he is guilty as charged. I can't believe that any of those that follow and support Ron Paul could condone such callous acts of violence. Yes, there's a few bad cops (just like any other profession) and we have govt that overplays it authoritarian hand but snipping off innocent people doing their job is evil.

You and I have different ideas of what a spineless coward is:

http://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/1440617_1401421287-1583.jpg?w=780

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aXkia0Y9rLw/U4zC2U4QeeI/AAAAAAAAKcQ/s_pkFY9IldM/s1600/Sheriff-Joey-Terrell-Quote1.png

[osan]

Looks remarkably well maintained, even a fresh shave, for someone that's been in the woods for nearly two months.

There was something about the photo that was bothering me. I was thinking it was the nose, but in fact it was this. Good, astute catch.

I am usually loathe to make too many assumptions, but I will go out on a limb on this one and say that this clean-shave makes no sense to me whatsoever. This barbered state suggests to me that either he had nothing to do with that of which he is accused or someone pooched the set (as in film). Who in hell is going to bother shaving when every moment of every day for 8 weeks is spent evading capture in 5-minute chunks?

I despise facial hair on myself. I look like an escaped child-molester and it is very uncomfortable... not to mention plainly gross. Even so, were I in that position I would not be spending so much as one second thinking of breaking out the razor. In fact, a razor would not be in my zombie bag in the first place.

If someone has a good explanation of this, I would love to see it.

[osan]

I think the critical mass of those who see cops for what they really are, is approaching.

Not likely.

Have you ever considered that all this abuse is nothing fancier than a training regimen designed to break us to the harness?

Turn it up and keep it up. After a while the perception of "normal" is altered and as the violence to the psyche wicks up, it notices less and less what is really happening.

This is Cognitive Psychology 101. How do you think the Marines churn out their killers?

[osan]

Seeing this picture reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me. He raised hogs back in the 80's and sold a bunch to an operator who came out to his place to pick up a load. Every hog that got a little aggressive, the buyer would take a thick piece of iron rebar and smash them in the face and break their noses. He didn't care about their health because they were going to slaughter, he just didn't want them fighting. My friend was pretty horrified, but they weren't his hogs anymore.

Frein belongs to the cops now.

Sadly for me, my reaction would have been to work the prick over with his own iron bar. Such brands of cruelty I avoid at nearly any cost because I do not want to go to prison for maiming or killing someone. I don't do abuse.

Speaking of critters, tonight I traded one of my bucks, Samson, for a registered Boer doe (goats). She is very pretty and Sammy is going to a good home.

[osan]

I know this is sort of off topic for this thread, but I don't understand why you have such a double standard for cops. I can understand holding them up to the same standard as a normal citizen. And I can understand holding them up to Biblical standards. What I don't get, is why you randomly support the death penalty based on what appears to be solely ancap prejudice.

You have made up your own set of capital crimes, 'Freedom Fanatics Torah' we could call it.

Any violation of the public trust should be met with draconian consequences. If you need this explained to you, there is no explanation that would lead you to get it.

[osan]

1 dead, 1 wounded.

They were both already dead on the inside.

[osan]

"He got on his knees and surrendered his face to the officer's fists peacefully"

I'm rather surprised they did not take turns skull-fucking him.

[idiom]

We SHOULD be outraged that they obviously beat the shit out of the guy before they got him in front of the cameras. We SHOULD be outraged that police agencies waste money and abuse power every single day. We SHOULD be outraged that cops are disproportionately thuggish and nasty. But we should NOT be calling an alleged murderer a hero just because his victim was a random cop instead of a random 'civilian'.

So close but so far.

Maybe Frein is properly outraged at the Police State, and you simply haven't been pushed far enough yet to see it.

The way the state operates is on track to generate a revolution eventually.

[osan]

The Eric Frein Event showed the "Freedoms" you "have" when a Holy Cop gets murdered. Now they can continue throwing grenades at babies sleeping in their cribs all "innocent" and shit.

Million-dollar idea: Manufacture grenade-resistant windows. Want to bet they'd sell like hotcakes?

Just imagine the first stupid bastard cops to thump a grenade against one of these, only to have it land in their own kissers. I'd pay money to see it. I'd pay extra to be able to cheer without fear of being the next person to experience the wrong end of a SWAT raid.

A triple-pane window, the middle being 1" thick bandit barrier. Shoot, you'd make a fortune just off sales in the South Bronx.

[Anti Federalist]

Million-dollar idea: Manufacture grenade-resistant windows. Want to bet they'd sell like hotcakes?

Just imagine the first stupid bastard cops to thump a grenade against one of these, only to have it land in their own kissers. I'd pay money to see it. I'd pay extra to be able to cheer without fear of being the next person to experience the wrong end of a SWAT raid.

A triple-pane window, the middle being 1" thick bandit barrier. Shoot, you'd make a fortune just off sales in the South Bronx.

There is ballistic film that can be applied to existing windows that would work.

http://www.azalphaglass.com/Ballistic_Film.html

[squarepusher]

You and I have different ideas of what a spineless coward is:

http://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/1440617_1401421287-1583.jpg?w=780

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aXkia0Y9rLw/U4zC2U4QeeI/AAAAAAAAKcQ/s_pkFY9IldM/s1600/Sheriff-Joey-Terrell-Quote1.png

Here is the difference. The police accidentally grenaded the kid (they obviously didn't mean to do that to a baby). Frein purposely killed the police offer (while in a hiding surprise attack).

Now, you can fault the police for being a part of the raid that, their line of work, or other, but there is a difference. The real blame is the laws/code that says the officers need to do these raids to get drug offenders. The officers are just doing their job, so lets change their jobs so they wont be doing that anymore.

[Anti Federalist]

Here is the difference. The police accidentally grenaded the kid (they obviously didn't mean to do that to a baby). Frein purposely killed the police offer (while in a hiding surprise attack).

Now, you can fault the police for being a part of the raid that, their line of work, or other, but there is a difference. The real blame is the laws/code that says the officers need to do these raids to get drug offenders. The officers are just doing their job, so lets change their jobs so they wont be doing that anymore.

I could not care less about any Nuremberg Defenses.

I was merely commenting on what I consider to be the properties of a spineless coward.


“Pray for the children, pray for the baby, pray for the family,” Terrell said. “It makes you do some soul-searching, and it makes you question, ‘Are you doing what you’re supposed to be doing?’”

That was the sheriff right after it happened.

He knows what he's doing and did was wrong, and deliberately hid behind his badge and position of authority to tell everybody to Fuck Off.

Spineless Coward.

[Anti Federalist]

Here is the difference. The police accidentally grenaded the kid (they obviously didn't mean to do that to a baby). Frein purposely killed the police offer (while in a hiding surprise attack).

Now, you can fault the police for being a part of the raid that, their line of work, or other, but there is a difference. The real blame is the laws/code that says the officers need to do these raids to get drug offenders. The officers are just doing their job, so lets change their jobs so they wont be doing that anymore.

Just doing their jobs, amirite?


It was when the third officer walked in that the 90-pound teen was stunned with a Tazer and fell to the floor.

According to Antohony Owens, a family friend, Vidal Collapsed backwards on to the floor the two officers jumped on top of the 5ft 3 100 lb Vidal to restrain him.

As Vidal’s Father tried to step in and grab the screw driver the Southport Police Officer that had instructed the other officers to use their tasers, moved between the father and the pile of people on the floor and said “We don’t have time for this” and shot Vidal Once in the chest as the other two Officers held him on the floor.

Vidal’s father then grabbed the officer as he was lining himself up for another shot.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-shoots-dead-unarmed-tased-subdued-teen-we-time-this-bang/#KSvUsLcAYdmcx5Vi.99

[Anti Federalist]

Here is the difference. The police accidentally grenaded the kid (they obviously didn't mean to do that to a baby)

There was all sorts of indications that there were young children in the home, that were deliberately ignored in order for the raid to proceed.

If you or I did that, regardless of "accidental" circumstances, we'd be in jail.

[jonhowe]

So close but so far.

Maybe Frein is properly outraged at the Police State, and you simply haven't been pushed far enough yet to see it.

The way the state operates is on track to generate a revolution eventually.

That seems like a pretty dumb way to operate...

And maybe he is. If he is, I look forward to hearing it. He hasn't given any indication so far... but I see you're convinced because you "pushed far enough" and made up that little story in your head (like most people here).


You and I have different ideas of what a spineless coward is:


It's almost, ALMOST, like it's possible for there to be more than one bad guy in a story...

Almost.


That is the story. but it is only the story because that is what the Police Spokesman says.

I have no idea. Perhaps he died of a heart attack,, but they needed a training exercise.
or perhaps it was "friendly fire" and they don't want to say that.

We have only the word of the Paid Mouthpiece.

Again. By that logic we don't know if Frein even exists. So why support him?


How do you know the cop he killed was innocent? Do you expect that same authoritarian hand to tell you if he wasn't innocent? Just wondering..
As for me, the jury is still out.

Well, he was never convicted (or accused) of a crime punishable by death. Unless you've heard something I've havent?


Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this as well.

Not one tenth of the resources that went into this would have been expended had you or I or some other mundane been killed.

Yes. We all know that. Whoever shot the cop knew that too; that was the WHOLE FREAKING POINT, clearly. Hence the pre-planning, the supplies, etc.

The only thing the shooter has accomplished in this story is to get the country to like cops again. Random murder is NOT a way to win hearts and minds. This is what this forum agrees when it comes to foreign policy; why isn't it when it comes to cops?


Is it war, or is it not?

It is not. Only the congress can declare war ;)

But seriously, no, it is not a war between people and cops. They may act like it sometimes, but that doesn't make it so.





This is literally the only place I find myself "defending" police (and trust me, I'm not doing that; this manhunt was an absolute waste/travesty, as are most major police activities). It's shocking how this forum subscribes to peace and a right to life, unless you're a cop.

[jonhowe]

There was all sorts of indications that there were young children in the home, that were deliberately ignored in order for the raid to proceed.

If you or I did that, regardless of "accidental" circumstances, we'd be in jail.

You are arguing against us like we think the raid was a great idea and totally justified and that no one should get in trouble for this kind of thing and cops drink free at our place. Like we're thrilled this baby is disfigured and cops give us tingles up our legs. I hope you realize that's not the case; no one here thinks that.

But the dead cop didn't grenade the baby. And even if he did, it is not a crime punishable by death.

[Occam's Banana]

Here is the difference. The police accidentally grenaded the kid (they obviously didn't mean to do that to a baby). Frein purposely killed the police offer (while in a hiding surprise attack).

The police who "accidentally" grenaded Baby Bou Bou did so in the course of attempting to kidnap a man who (so far as I have heard) had done NO harm to any person or property.

But crimes committed by police as part of "just doing their jobs" are officially sanctioned by the state.
Crimes committed against police are not.

The murderers of Kelly Thomas, Aiyana Jones, Eric Garner, Jose Guerena, etc., etc., ad nauseum have badges.
They will NOT be punished (with exceedingly rare exceptions).

Eric Frein does not have a badge.
Eric Frein WILL be punished.

THAT is the only difference here.

I can't help but wonder: if I tried to capture a man who had done nothing wrong and was no threat to me just in order to "fine" him (i.e., extort money from him) and/or lock him up in a cage, and I "accidentally" grenaded a baby in the process of doing so, would you be here explaining how it was "just an accident" and that I "obviously didn't mean to do that to a baby?" Or would you just denounce me as a vicious baby-mangling criminal? If you have a shred of decency, you would do the latter - so why should it make any difference if I happened to have a government-issued badge?


Now, you can fault the police for being a part of the raid that, their line of work, or other, but there is a difference. The real blame is the laws/code that says the officers need to do these raids to get drug offenders. The officers are just doing their job, so lets change their jobs so they wont be doing that anymore.

Ah, the old "just doing their jobs" dodge.

Well, Nazi concentration camp guards were "just doing their jobs," too. [h/t Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)]
(So I suppose your advice to Jews, gypsies, etc. would have been for them to "change their overseers' jobs" ... :rolleyes:)

Why should it be incumbent upon the victims to "change the jobs" of their victimizers - instead of incumbent upon the victimizers to change their jobs (or just stop doing those jobs)? (And if most of them are the "good apples" they are allegedly supposed to be, why do they need someone else to "change their jobs" for them?)

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The real blame is the laws/code that says the officers need to do these raids to get drug offenders.

Legislation does not dictate the enforcement of that legislation. Police have wide discretion in the laws that they enforce. Police are one third of government, equal to that of legislators who pass these laws.

The police are not robotic entities incapable of choice. They make choices. Choices become actions. Actions have consequences.

[tod evans]

Oh bullshit!

I've not seen kops roll out this type of parade for anyone but another kop...



I have no reason to believe what's set forth in the newz by governments spokesmen, what you believe is your prerogative.






No it doesn't but kops, ALL KOPS, have declared a war, they're armed and dangerous, obviously hunting the citizenry so this particular instance might actually be vengeance for the kops behavior in which case I wouldn't view it as murder.





Nor is it some low IQ kops place to decide which citizen gets gunned down in the street like a dog, or which woman gets assaulted or baby blown up yet that's exactly what's happening in this war they've declared.

If you're so against fighting back that's up to you but when you talk bad about some dude with the balls to use their own tactics back on them I've got to wonder whose agenda you're pushin'?


11-02-2014 01:01 AM
jonhowe
Thread: Frein Captured
You are a frightening person.

How about discussing your problem out here in the open?

Cowardly behind the scene drive by negative rep makes me ask you this question again;

If you're so against fighting back that's up to you but when you talk bad about some dude with the balls to use their own tactics back on them I've got to wonder whose agenda you're pushin'?

Whose agenda are you pushin; Jon-boy?

What is it about me that frightens you?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tod, I don't what's up with this damn forum. You post the Get-a-Rope emoticon and people freak out. I dig an extra layer of detail and people think I'm creepy.

I think a lot of forum posting is catharsis, but there are limits to this nonsense. I can't imagine how a person would constantly jump out of his skin if a grenade disfigured his baby's face. I mean really--what kind of reaction do people expect when someone blatantly shoots your dog? I mean, geez already--there has to be a defined limit in what a person will tolerate. You can't just keep pushing people like they're some kind of garbage already. Enough already.

[phill4paul]

Sadly for me, my reaction would have been to work the prick over with his own iron bar. Such brands of cruelty I avoid at nearly any cost because I do not want to go to prison for maiming or killing someone. I don't do abuse.

Indeed. What someone does to their hogs on their property is one thing. What they do to their hogs on my property is something else entirely.

[phill4paul]

It is not. Only the congress can declare war ;)

Controlled Substances Act (CSA), Title II of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970. 91st United States Congress. ;)


It's shocking how this forum subscribes to peace and a right to life, unless you're a cop.

Perhaps it is because cops are transgressors against peace and a right to life?

[pcosmar]

Again. By that logic we don't know if Frein even exists. So why support him?



Who said I support him? I do not know him. I do not know if his presented persona is a complete fabrication,, or has some basis in reality.

I observe.

I oppose the Police State. I am opposed to authoritarianism.. ( the polar opposite of Liberty)
I oppose the massive waste. the violation of rights. and the arrogance.

Frein is irrelevant. I have no idea if he was a fabricated persona for a training op,, or some real person on a private mission.
My information about him was provided by people that are known liars,, and as such, is suspect.

[pcosmar]

But the dead cop didn't grenade the baby. And even if he did, it is not a crime punishable by death.

I have no idea of what crimes he has never been charged with,,

There are various crimes committed every day by state enforcers that are never investigated nor charges filed by the corrupt and complicit courts.

Oh,, and btw..

an armed assault on a home and injury to a child in the process, is a crime worth immediate execution on the spot.
A dangerous animal that would do such is a threat to all. and should be put down immediately.

[tod evans]

Million-dollar idea: Manufacture grenade-resistant windows. Want to bet they'd sell like hotcakes?

Just imagine the first stupid bastard cops to thump a grenade against one of these, only to have it land in their own kissers. I'd pay money to see it. I'd pay extra to be able to cheer without fear of being the next person to experience the wrong end of a SWAT raid.

A triple-pane window, the middle being 1" thick bandit barrier. Shoot, you'd make a fortune just off sales in the South Bronx.

Lexan

It can be laminated to make bullet-proof "glass", although "bullet-resistant" is more accurate for the thinner windows, such as are used in bullet-resistant windows in automobiles. The thicker barriers of transparent plastic used in teller's windows and barriers in banks are also polycarbonate. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate)

Several decades ago I was involved in retrofitting a looney-bin with Lexan windows, one of the salesmans demonstrations was to empty a 1911 into a piece of 1/2".....

[tod evans]

I have no idea of what crimes he has never been charged with,,

There are various crimes committed every day by state enforcers that are never investigated nor charges filed by the corrupt and complicit courts.

Oh,, and btw..

an armed assault on a home and injury to a child in the process, is a crime worth immediate execution on the spot.
A dangerous animal that would do such is a threat to all. and should be put down immediately.

The laws they use in their courts that encompass RICO and the various conspiracy statutes could quite readily be applied to all kops and their co-conspirators in the "Just-Us" system.....

It is not just tacit cooperation they exhibit, they take public oaths and make public declarations of war. :mad:

[presence]

Perhaps it is because cops are transgressors against peace and a right to life?

Perhaps those of us that have luckily been spared their abuse are suffering from

"survivors guilt", "vicarious traumatization", and "cognitive dissonance"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_guilt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_traumatization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Which leave a state of parataxic distortion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parataxic_distortion

yearning for transference of accomplishment to overcome the unfelt but ever present threat from the brutal hands of the despot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transference


Something, something, something...Whatever my rage for the day.

pretty much that

[jonhowe]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tod, I don't what's up with this damn forum. You post the Get-a-Rope emoticon and people freak out. I dig an extra layer of detail and people think I'm creepy.

I think a lot of forum posting is catharsis, but there are limits to this nonsense. I can't imagine how a person would constantly jump out of his skin if a grenade disfigured his baby's face. I mean really--what kind of reaction do people expect when someone blatantly shoots your dog? I mean, geez already--there has to be a defined limit in what a person will tolerate. You can't just keep pushing people like they're some kind of garbage already. Enough already.




How about discussing your problem out here in the open?

Cowardly behind the scene drive by negative rep makes me ask you this question again;

If you're so against fighting back that's up to you but when you talk bad about some dude with the balls to use their own tactics back on them I've got to wonder whose agenda you're pushin'?

Whose agenda are you pushin; Jon-boy?

What is it about me that frightens you?

OH CRAP YOU CAUGHT ME! I got home from a 12 hour shift at work (yes, on Saturday) last night and came on here and called you scary (you are, you aren't the only one I said that to, and yet you're the only one with a big enough ego to feel the need to publicize my big bad wolf tactics) all as part of a plan to push my agenda to... make cops shoot more people? I don't know. Keep trying to figure it out; I'm definitely interested in what you make up next :rolleyes:




Seriously though. Tod. What frightens me is you think random murder of 1 person is justified by the actions of an entire population of other people. That's the same moral justification that had us invade Iraq (Saddam scary!), Libya, etc. Whose agenda are YOU pushing?

I'm sorry that it suddenly became popular to be pro-war on this forum (but only against cops).

[tod evans]

OH CRAP YOU CAUGHT ME! I got home from a 12 hour shift at work (yes, on Saturday) last night and came on here and called you scary (you are, you aren't the only one I said that to, and yet you're the only one with a big enough ego to feel the need to publicize my big bad wolf tactics) all as part of a plan to push my agenda to... make cops shoot more people? I don't know. Keep trying to figure it out; I'm definitely interested in what you make up next :rolleyes:




Seriously though. Tod. What frightens me is you think random murder of 1 person is justified by the actions of an entire population of other people. That's the same moral justification that had us invade Iraq (Saddam scary!), Libya, etc. Whose agenda are YOU pushing?

I'm sorry that it suddenly became popular to be pro-war on this forum (but only against cops).

Hystronics much?

I see kops in one light, that being the ground soldiers of a government that has declared war on its citizens.

If that scares you? GOOD! It should.

I respect your right to behave as you wish in the face of an open declaration of war while you sir attempt to misdirect and confuse the issue at hand.

I very clearly stated that I had no knowledge of Mr Frein's motives and that I placed no creedence in the government's propaganda. Do not attribute your impressions of my typed words as something other than what they actually say.

I have ASKED you what your agenda is, I haven't ascribed one to you....

[phill4paul]

I'm sorry that it suddenly became popular to be pro-war on this forum (but only against cops).

I think pro-defense would be the proper word. Defense can take many forms. Including offense.

[RJB]

In the scheme of things, I'm less intimidated by "scary" Tod in internet land than the unknown police officer tailing me for no reason.

[jonhowe]

Who said I support him? I do not know him. I do not know if his presented persona is a complete fabrication,, or has some basis in reality.

I observe.

I oppose the Police State. I am opposed to authoritarianism.. ( the polar opposite of Liberty)
I oppose the massive waste. the violation of rights. and the arrogance.

Frein is irrelevant. I have no idea if he was a fabricated persona for a training op,, or some real person on a private mission.
My information about him was provided by people that are known liars,, and as such, is suspect.

I may have mistaken another post, calling him a hero, for yours. If so I apologize.

I also oppose the police state. I oppose the federal reserve, but despite my proximity to their NY HQ, you don't see me sitting across the street with a sniper rifle downing people. That would be both immoral (murder) and illogical (it would make people sympathize with the Fed, the most dangerous and radical institution on the planet right now).

Part of the problem in this thread is that people are debating 2 sides of 2 issues without much differentiation.:
A. Did Frein shoot the cop?
B. Is it ok to shoot cops?

A. We won't know for sure either way until more info comes out (IF it does). I don't see anyone on here calling for a summary execution of the guy (the one side of the argument), but I do see people on here who seem to know for 100% sure that he did not. That, I find curious.
B. I can't believe it's even being debated, but I guess it's good to see that Ron Paul supporters can by hypocrites too. Anti war/violence overseas, pro war/violence against cops. The fact that the grenaded baby story (a travesty that should have seen several cops jailed) even made it into this thread is proof of the hypocrisy; it's like when Bush would reference 9/11 as justification for Iraq. There was no real connection, but if you can get people scared they're easier to convince!

[jonhowe]

In the scheme of things, I'm less intimidated by "scary" Tod in internet land than the unknown police officer tailing me for no reason.

I'm scared of anyone who thinks random murder is ok. That includes most cops, and now Tod as well.

[tod evans]

I'm scared of anyone who thinks random murder is ok. That includes most cops, and now Tod as well.

You lying piece of shit!

Random murder eh?

Good God man there's certainly free government clinics that'll provide you with meds in NY.

It's the "random murder" that occurs on citizens daily by kops that I'm against, I'm also against government's agents assaulting and harassing citizens...

[jonhowe]

You lying piece of shit!

Random murder eh?

Good God man there's certainly free government clinics that'll provide you with meds in NY.

It's the "random murder" that occurs on citizens daily by kops that I'm against, I'm also against government's agents assaulting and harassing citizens...



Yes, random murder, eh. I'm against random murder by cops, too. There's plenty of threads about those. Ive shared and discussed them. on Facebook, and with friends and family a hundred times.

Again, no one here is supporting random murder by cops. YOU are supporting random murder OF cops.

[tod evans]

Yes, random murder, eh. I'm against random murder by cops, too. There's plenty of threads about those. Ive shared and discussed them. on Facebook, and with friends and family a hundred times.

Again, no one here is supporting random murder by cops. YOU are supporting random murder OF cops.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

Find where I have advocated or even "supported" the random murder of kops, go ahead, if you need help with the quotation button that can be provided.

You're a real yellow bellied piece of work.

[edit]

By the way;

What is your agenda Jon-boy?

Throwing false accusations around only serves to obfuscate the issue...

[pcosmar]

I'm scared of anyone who thinks random murder is ok.

Random?

I am a generally peaceful old hippy. but I am not a pacifist.
I am an advocate of self defense and community defense. I am second Amendment supporter.

The Second Amendment is there to keep government in check. and to shoot them if they overstep their bounds.

It is self defense/community defense from the Government.

Police are a threat. By their very existence,,they are a threat. I have no issues with someone addressing that threat.
http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm


“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.


“An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).


“One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).


The fact is,, the scourge known as "police" should not exist,, and should not be tolerated in a free society.

The Fact is, we are not in a free society.

[Danke]

Million-dollar idea: Manufacture grenade-resistant windows. Want to bet they'd sell like hotcakes?

Just imagine the first stupid bastard cops to thump a grenade against one of these, only to have it land in their own kissers. I'd pay money to see it. I'd pay extra to be able to cheer without fear of being the next person to experience the wrong end of a SWAT raid.

A triple-pane window, the middle being 1" thick bandit barrier. Shoot, you'd make a fortune just off sales in the South Bronx.

I think these would work.
http://www.hurricanewindow.com

My friend has these type of windows in his Florida home.

[sparebulb]

I think these would work.
http://www.hurricanewindow.com

My friend has these type of windows in his Florida home.

How about applying a film made by our friends from Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing.



3M™ Impact Protection Attachment Systems

Highest level of protection. This unique window protection system combines the toughness of 3M™ Ultra Safety and Security Films with an adhesive or profile attachment system. Choose either 3M Impact Protection Adhesive or 3M Impact Protection Profile depending upon your frame and overall aesthetic needs. This combination system attaches the filmed window to the window frame, creating a robust shield that significantly outperforms window film-only systems. It's extra assurance against impact energy from severe weather, earthquakes and forced entry events—with enough strength to handle even bomb blasts.

[jjdoyle]

Here is the difference. The police accidentally grenaded the kid (they obviously didn't mean to do that to a baby). Frein purposely killed the police offer (while in a hiding surprise attack).

Now, you can fault the police for being a part of the raid that, their line of work, or other, but there is a difference. The real blame is the laws/code that says the officers need to do these raids to get drug offenders. The officers are just doing their job, so lets change their jobs so they wont be doing that anymore.

No, the police purposefully grenaded that child. How did they not mean to do it?
They went into the situation in willful ignorance at best, and used a potentially lethal weapon. They ignored the obvious around them. A vehicle with a carseat or two in it. Toys in the front yard. And, the obvious fact the suspect's vehicle wasn't even at the house. But, they are protected from their actions because of a uniform and a piece of shiny metal they wear?

And, for all I know, Eric Frein acted in the defense of his brother and his brother's family. He was apparently at his brother's wedding as best man, and if he heard his brother and sister-in-law take a typical oath, "to death to us part", maybe Eric Frein took that seriously? Saw/heard of a problem in the marriage? Maybe his brother was being threatened?

We know there was a sister-in-law connection reported in one story about a possible affair with the guy killed, but the media isn't really addressing it or mentioning it as a potential motive.

But, with the fact that we know there was one potential connection here with the guy killed, and Frein wasn't targeting the public, I would say Frein was addressing a problem with his family. Nothing more. The only reason he got attention and a massive manhunt, is because it was one of the King's men in uniform.

[PaulConventionWV]

1) he surrendered
2) The Marshal Service arrested him, not the cops.

-t

Well, I've never known surrender to stop the cops from shooting someone, but point taken on #2. I'll admit I'm not sure what the difference is.

[Anti Federalist]

It is not. Only the congress can declare war ;)

But seriously, no, it is not a war between people and cops.

They may act like it sometimes, but that doesn't make it so.

This is literally the only place I find myself "defending" police (and trust me, I'm not doing that; this manhunt was an absolute waste/travesty, as are most major police activities). It's shocking how this forum subscribes to peace and a right to life, unless you're a cop.

I think this is the critical point at which we disconnect.

I do think there is a war on.

The government has equipped the local troops with military equipment, military training, they have assigned themselves military rank and awards and honors, and they say, repeatedly, that they (the cops) are at war with us.

Now, if the Russians, or the Chinese, or the Iranians invaded your neighborhood, started bossing everybody about, stole people's property without any legal or moral justification, put millions of people in prison across the nation, many of whom being innocent, grenaded sleeping babies, shot sleeping little girls and grandmothers carrying out botched raids, rolled around in tanks and APCs and helicopters, randomly shot people's dogs, and just, in general, started acting like a standing army of oppression and control, what would you do?

Write some SWLODs to the local commander?

Vote harder to get rid of them?

Or would you be inclined to take a shot at one of them, chuck a Molotov cocktail into one of their tanks or perhaps sabotage a road or bridge?

That's what happens in war, a war they started.

And a war that could end if they had desire for it to end.

But, it is war, regardless, and things like this happen in war.

It always amazes me amongst the "AmeriKa First" crowd, the disbelief and crocodile tears that get shed when some poor bastard gets shot or blown up by an IED in some far flung corner of the world that we have been invading and occupying for decades.

What, it never occurred to you that somebody might strike back, and it would not be at a time and place and target of your choosing?

(ETA - Just to make clear, I'm not lumping you in that group, just making a comment.)

[Anti Federalist]

Second, police response to the law in question. A SWAT team is like a military unit.

You can moan all you want about the militarization of the police and all of that but your tears will not change a thing.

Get used to that theme, BTW.

When I was on SWAT our view is that "We will always win....even if we have to burn down your entire house by bombing it....we will win". Period.

Inside the mind of a SWAT cop.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?381476-Inside-the-mind-of-a-SWAT-cop

[Anti Federalist]

And all of what I said is predicated on an unknown, and that is, "what was Frein's motivation?"

We don't know.

It could be that he had a legitimate hard on for these particular cops.

Or cops in general.

Or he could just be a kook that decided to "role play" his re-enacting hobby for real.

The whole thing could be a staged drill and set up.

Who fucking knows anymore with these assholes.

But assuming his gripe was: "I have had enough of this standing army of occupation that has declared war on all of us", then who got targeted really doesn't matter.

[phill4paul]

Inside the mind of a SWAT cop.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?381476-Inside-the-mind-of-a-SWAT-cop

Nuh-uh. Not all SWAT cops think that. I'm sure there are "good apples" that refuse to participate if they are at the wrong address or don't have a proper warrant. I'm sure it happens all the time. There are some that probably even stop the other cops from doing something unlawful. I bet they arrest the "bad cops" all the time. To lump them all into the same group is collectivism, man. /s :rolleyes:

[Chester Copperpot]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tod, I don't what's up with this damn forum. You post the Get-a-Rope emoticon and people freak out. I dig an extra layer of detail and people think I'm creepy.

I think a lot of forum posting is catharsis, but there are limits to this nonsense. I can't imagine how a person would constantly jump out of his skin if a grenade disfigured his baby's face. I mean really--what kind of reaction do people expect when someone blatantly shoots your dog? I mean, geez already--there has to be a defined limit in what a person will tolerate. You can't just keep pushing people like they're some kind of garbage already. Enough already.

I want to see what this guys beef with the cops was.. IF he was the one who actually shot anybody... If a cop shot my dog I wouldnt indiscriminately go after any cop. But I would get back at the cop who shot my dog.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm sorry that it suddenly became popular to be pro-war on this forum (but only against cops).

I've had this argument with klamath already.

I am not pro war, I want nothing more than peace and liberty.

But I am not a pacifist.

If faced with an aggressor, I will defend myself as best as possible.

I'm trying as hard as I can to prevent it coming to that, because, (among a million more important reasons) frankly, I'm too old and fat to go humping 50 clicks through the woods every day and sleep on rocks.

So part of that effort includes bringing police abuses to constant light, and emphasizing that, if you (cops) keep pushing, there will be more Freins and Dregas and Smiths.

You (cops) can end this right now, turn back from the abyss, reject the federalization and reject the training that says your friends and neighbors and family are "hostiles" in "enemy territory".

Turn in "bad cops".

Tear down the "blue wall".

It's all on you.

Refuse to do so, and take this to the next level, and you will more than likely be destroyed.

There are many millions more of us than of you.

[osan]

Here is the difference. The police accidentally grenaded the kid (they obviously didn't mean to do that to a baby).

Seems I will be repeating myself... again. The police made a deliberate act. That grenade did not lob itself into the house and crib. They are guilty of negligent homicide at the very least, and that is being impossibly kind to them, affording them a benefit of doubt they merit in no degree. What they MEANT is irrelevant to the fact that they destroyed that poor child's face and they should all be executed for it. No question in my mind. They all should be sat into an electric chair and be given the juice. You can make whatever excuses for them you please. That is part of what it means to be free. Likewise, we are free to regard you as evil's apologist.


Frein purposely killed the police offer (while in a hiding surprise attack).

So much FAIL... so little time.

Firstly, it has not yet been established that Frein is the killer. FAIL.

Secondly, if he was, but motives are yet to be determined, much less assessed as invalid. FAIL^2.

This is sufficient to demolish your position in toto. You're welcome and no, there is no charge... this time.


Now, you can fault the police for being a part of the raid that, their line of work, or other, but there is a difference.

Yes yes... and this turnip truck over here is red, whereas the one over there is orange. Whoopdie friggin' doo.


The real blame is the laws/code that says the officers need to do these raids to get drug offenders.

Bullshit and a lie. There is NOTHING on the planet that requires them to obey orders to commit felonious acts against their fellows. They are criminals, prima facie, by virtue of what they do. They are not even under pain of death for refusing such orders. All they need do is walk away an trespass not. But no, they CHOOSE to do what they do without duress. Once again, your logic fails miserably.


The officers are just doing their job, so lets change their jobs so they won't be doing that anymore.

If you came to my house just doing your job in this manner, 100% that you'd be shot. Just following orders == FAIL. Blind adherence == FAIL. Categorical compliance == FAIL. Everything about your stated position, explicit or tacit, == FAIL.

This form of ignorant mendacity is particularly inspirational of a desire to slap someone for its bald and intolerable obscenity.

Just doing their jobs... Jesus Christ... you need to tell us you were being sarcastic and then you need to become more adept at being sarcastic.

[osan]

But I am not a pacifist.


Actually, I believe that you are.

What you are not is a passivist.

Mennonites are passivist. "Good" ones, anyhow. They will make no attempt to prevent you from harming them. I respect the courage of their convictions, but despise the idiocy of their choice of belief. But that is all part of being free men.

I am a pacifist, but I will abide no abuse of my person.

[Anti Federalist]

Actually, I believe that you are.

What you are not is a passivist.

Mennonites are passivist. "Good" ones, anyhow. They will make no attempt to prevent you from harming them. I respect the courage of their convictions, but despise the idiocy of their choice of belief. But that is all part of being free men.

I am a pacifist, but I will abide no abuse of my person.

pac·i·fist
ˈpasəfəst/
noun
noun: pacifist; plural noun: pacifists

1.
a person who believes that war and violence are unjustifiable.
"she was a committed pacifist all her life"
synonyms: peace-lover, conscientious objector, passive resister, peacemaker, peacemonger, dove
"you know, even pacifists can support their nation's armed forces"
antonyms: warmonger

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Definition of PASSIVISM
: a passive attitude, behavior, or way of life

[specsaregood]

I want to see what this guys beef with the cops was.. IF he was the one who actually shot anybody... If a cop shot my dog I wouldnt indiscriminately go after any cop. But I would get back at the cop who shot my dog.

Is Frein still in federal custody or in state/local police custody now?

Whats the over/under on him living or keeping his tongue intact until he gets a chance to talk?

[Anti Federalist]

Is Frein still in federal custody or in state/local police custody now?

Whats the over/under on him living or keeping his tongue intact until he gets a chance to talk?

Vegas odds, or me, personally?

Personally, I'd say 50/50.

[phill4paul]

Vegas odds, or me, personally?

Personally, I'd say 50/50.

I'd say he 0%. Psych eval. Meds. "Therapy." What goes on behind closed doors stays behind closed doors. That's if he isn't in Vegas yukking it up with some handlers. And again....what goes on behind closed doors.....

[RJB]

I'd say he 0%. Psych eval. Meds. "Therapy." What goes on behind closed doors stays behind closed doors. That's if he isn't in Vegas yukking it up with some handlers. And again....what goes on behind closed doors.....

I notice nobody ever gets off on the insanity clause these days, yet the ones involved in incidents like this get diagnosed as crazy enough to get drugged out of their minds at least long enough for the trial and forgotten afterwards.

[KCIndy]

Is Frein still in federal custody or in state/local police custody now?

Whats the over/under on him living or keeping his tongue intact until he gets a chance to talk?


Pretty low, I would guess. :(

We've all seen the pictures of Frein's bloodied face. The "authorities" have waved off any concern:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2816424/Eric-Frein-s-handwritten-note-detailing-escape-police-ambush-left-one-Pennsylvania-State-Trooper-dead-public-charged-murder.html

Officers said the 31-year-old survivalist sustained the facial injuries while he was being held down in an abandoned hangar during his capture, after 48 days on the run from law enforcement in Pennsylvania.


Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

[phill4paul]

I notice nobody ever gets off on the insanity clause these days, yet the ones involved in incidents like this get diagnosed as crazy enough to get drugged out of their minds at least long enough for the trial and forgotten afterwards.

http://www.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/article_photos/james-inline.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1402888!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/colorado-shooting-james-holmes.jpg

[The Free Hornet]

The real blame is the laws/code that says the officers need to do these raids to get drug offenders. The officers are just doing their job, so lets change their jobs so they wont be doing that anymore.

This is the norm, not the exception:


For Hollingsed, he regularly witnessed the shortcomings in existing laws that sometimes handcuffed his officers from being as effective as they could in fighting drugs. Why not do something about it, he thought.

The police department found a willing partner to carry the bills to Raleigh for them, namely Sen. Jim Davis, R-Franklin. The Waynesville Police Department gathered notebooks full of information to present to Davis in addition to wording for the bills to illustrate why each piece of legislation was important.

http://www.smokymountainnews.com/news/item/11188-police-help-push-new-laws-through-legislature

Come on pusher, you should be better than this.

[Chester Copperpot]

Is Frein still in federal custody or in state/local police custody now?

Whats the over/under on him living or keeping his tongue intact until he gets a chance to talk?

TBH, I wouldnt be surprised if he got Jack Rubied while in the lockup and suffered a "heart attack"

[jonhowe]

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

Find where I have advocated or even "supported" the random murder of kops, go ahead, if you need help with the quotation button that can be provided.

"I see kops in one light, that being the ground soldiers of a government that has declared war on its citizens. "

That enough for you?


No? Ok, here's another:

"...ALL KOPS, have declared a war, they're armed and dangerous, obviously hunting the citizenry so this particular instance might actually be vengeance for the kops behavior in which case I wouldn't view it as murder."


Ask and you shall receive.

[jonhowe]

I've had this argument with klamath already.

I am not pro war, I want nothing more than peace and liberty.

But I am not a pacifist.

If faced with an aggressor, I will defend myself as best as possible.

I'm trying as hard as I can to prevent it coming to that, because, (among a million more important reasons) frankly, I'm too old and fat to go humping 50 clicks through the woods every day and sleep on rocks.

So part of that effort includes bringing police abuses to constant light, and emphasizing that, if you (cops) keep pushing, there will be more Freins and Dregas and Smiths.


AF, you are honestly one of my "liberty" heroes. It hurts me to think that you think so little of my posts on this issue, after all you've done to bring me around, so please allow me to explain:
Your exposure of police abuse over the last 6-7 years (IE, since I've been here) have helped me to bring a number of my friends and family around to the liberty movement. Between here and ZeroHedge (I'm assuming that AntiFederalist on ZH is you, but I don't actually know), you have been one of the main drivers of my intellectual move towards liberty. Maybe it's just my affinity for dogs, but your threads are often the ones that leave me the most enraged at police, and are a main contributor towards my current thoughts on policing in the US. You are well spoken, prolific, and passionate. But I cannot agree that the aggressive tactics of Cop A, Cop B, and Cop C, allows for the murder of Cop D; just like the aggressive nature of Pit Bulls A, B, and C, do not justify the summary execution of Pit Bulls D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, H, L, M, N, O, P (Q, R, S, T, U [V, X, Y and Z]).

Until Cop D (in this case, the victim of a murder, it would seem) is convicted of a capital offense (which MANY cops SHOULD be convicted of, but not THIS one, at least not that he's been accused of), he has a right to not be shot at random. His family does not deserve to lose a father and a husband because some OTHER cops deserve jail for police abuses. Until you prove to me that the victim (and I'm referring to the dead man, here) deserved death, I won't be praising Frein. Just as I see the Pit Bull culls around the country as (non-human) genocidal and evil.




You (cops) can end this right now, turn back from the abyss, reject the federalization and reject the training that says your friends and neighbors and family are "hostiles" in "enemy territory".

Turn in "bad cops".

Tear down the "blue wall".

It's all on you.

Refuse to do so, and take this to the next level, and you will more than likely be destroyed.

There are many millions more of us than of you.


It's not "all on" them. We, as citizens of these USA, have allowed the laws of this country to get out of hand. The entire idea of modern policing comes from the power of democratic tyranny of the majority. Cops reflect the very, very worst of any society that chooses to select them in the way we do. If you choose criminals as cops, your cops will be criminal. We gave them this power; we can remove it by refusing to obey their petty authority en masse. Meanwhile, shooting them at random only gets the wrath of god called down on your ass.


(Again. I am not claiming that being a cop is a victimless crime. But it is not a CAPITAL crime for a GIVEN INDIVIDUAL if that GIVEN INDIVIDUAL has not committed a capital crime. Until I hear proof that frein was in mortal danger from this cop, I see no justification for his murder.)

[tangent4ronpaul]

Well, I've never known surrender to stop the cops from shooting someone, but point taken on #2. I'll admit I'm not sure what the difference is.

When the cops think you killed one of their own, especially if it's their department - they are usually indistinguishable from a lynch mob.

THe Marshal Service, OTOH, is responsible for transporting prisoners and when they escape, are responsible for bringing them back alive. Kind of like bounty hunters. They don't do law enforcement. They are about prisoners and escapees.

-t

[jonhowe]

When the cops think you killed one of their own, especially if it's their department - they are usually indistinguishable from a lynch mob.


-t

And this is not OK. Intentionally provoking cops into outsized responses (as the shooter, possibly Frein, did here) certainly doesn't help anything, and allows for justification for further outsizes responses.




Members here seem to enjoy projecting their own ideas onto this blank slate that is Frein.
Thought: "Cops are evil: Frein shot 2 to start the revolution!"
Reality: "Policing in this country is fucked: Frein shot 2 cops and gave people a reason to support cops again!"

[tod evans]

"I see kops in one light, that being the ground soldiers of a government that has declared war on its citizens. "

That enough for you?


No? Ok, here's another:


"...ALL KOPS, have declared a war, they're armed and dangerous, obviously hunting the citizenry so this particular instance might actually be vengeance for the kops behavior in which case I wouldn't view it as murder."


Ask and you shall receive.

So, somehow in your feeble mind, me believing what kops have said repeatedly is "supporting the random murder of kops"?

Or.......since you chose to use a quote where I stated my view on murder charges in a warzone, do you see that as "supporting the random murder of kops"?

Either way that's quite a reach there Ace, it takes some real mental gymnastics to even try to draw that analogy let alone succeed...

Keep searching, maybe I've posted something in another thread that'll reach the bar because these examples fall far short of proving your point.

[jonhowe]

So, somehow in your feeble mind, me believing what kops have said repeatedly is "supporting the random murder of kops"?

Or.......since you chose to use a quote where I stated my view on murder charges in a warzone, do you see that as "supporting the random murder of kops"?

Either way that's quite a reach there Ace, it takes some real mental gymnastics to even try to draw that analogy let alone succeed...

Keep searching, maybe I've posted something in another thread that'll reach the bar because these examples fall far short of proving your point.

Let me clarify with you before I respond in full:

Is your issue with my use of the word "random", the word "murder", or the word "cop"? I said you supported the random murder of cops (to be fair, you call them kops, which makes it easier to not consider them humans, I understand), in response to which you called me a "lying piece of shit" (FWIW, anytime I post the word "shit" my post gets deleted, but I'm a "radical" here it seems). Was the murder not "random"? It clearly appears to have been; there seems to be no history between the victims and the current suspect. Was it not "murder" to kill a man standing around outside a police HQ? It clearly appears to have been. Was he not a cop? He clearly appears to have been. Do you not support this action? You clearly appear to.
So which part are you accusing me of lying about?


Or, put another way: I can see the police HQ on Amsterdam Ave and 170th Street out my bedroom window; is there any moral reason why I shouldn't purchase a grenade launcher on the black market and blow it up? I mean, I've had nothing but positive interactions with them (HINT: I'm white in a black/hispanic area), but I know that OTHER cops in NYC are bad/evil/corrupt (think Staten Island cops, for example). Is it OK if I kill some of the good ones if I have the chance that I might blow up some of the bad ones? And by "bad ones", I mean nonconvicted individuals who happen to be in and/or around a police station (IE, the shooter/Frein's targets).


EDIT: Tod, you call me a coward often on these forums (this isn't the 1st time), but I'd like to point out that any intelligent person can now figure out exactly where I live, and of course, my full name, simply from my username and posts in this thread. Did I put too much trust in the members of this forum? Part of my feeble mindedness, perhaps?

[tod evans]

"Supporting the random murder of kops" would fly in the face of the terms of service for RPF..

I don't know that this particular case was "random", do you?

Further I fail to see how "support" can be derived from either the understanding that government has openly declared war on its citizens or more importantly my belief that shooting enemy combatants isn't "murder".

Let's take a leap of faith here and assume that the propaganda is correct and there's actually a dead kop, (I haven't seen the body), who's to say that said kop was killed by Mr Frein?

If one believes that there's a dead kop and that he was killed by Mr Frein how does he draw the conclusion that the act was indeed "random"?

I'm going to sidebar for a moment;
In the instance of dead pitbulls I'm able to differentiate between feral dogs running in a pack indiscriminately killing or maiming other mammals and family pets protecting their family or property.
Kops are **** sapiens (not necessarily human) so I'm going to attribute to them the power of deductive reasoning, given that they have the ability to reason and are required to band together in a pack by virtue of their chosen vocation, I don't have a problem viewing that pack in the same light as I would the pack of feral dogs.
Bloodlust is an interspecies phenomenon that comes from engaging in warlike behavior, packs of animals that attack weaker prey often fight amongst themselves once the prey is vanquished.

Where is the speculation about the presumably dead kop and the actions he may have taken that predicated his death?

Are you in possession of anything that can substantiate the allegation that Mr Frein actually murdered him?

It's entirely possible that at some point in the future I could support the actions of the alleged kop killer but for now, and here on RPF I question everything released by the propaganda arm of government. I also very carefully point out the behaviors of the feral pack of government employees who fight in this war on the citizenry and I do not accept contradictory views of their vocation as honest or truthful...

When someone attempts to attribute criminal, or even contrary to the TOS, behavior too me, such as you have, I will immediately call them on it, if they persist in their false allegations I will object more strongly and in harsher terms.

My opinion of your moral turpitude, ie; cowardice, is based solely on your speech here. I could care less where you live, anyone who sympathizes with the governments warriors isn't someone I'll choose to be around. Be safe in your kop infested inter-city cage, they'll protect you as long as you're useful...


[edit]

Typing with insomnia leads to ramblin' on my part, there's two pointed questions I'll address the remainder I'll ignore.


So which part are you accusing me of lying about?

The part where you attempt to attribute behavior to me that skirts the TOS at RPF and borders on criminal, specifically "support" as in actively encourage which I have never done.


is there any moral reason why I shouldn't purchase a grenade launcher on the black market and blow it up?

Earlier I spoke of government funded clinics that provide free meds, you might wish to avail yourself of those.

[presence]

I cannot agree that the aggressive tactics of Cop A, Cop B, and Cop C, allows for the murder of Cop D

Much like not being Jewish in Nazi Germany, apparently it hasn't been brought to YOUR door yet: There is no war going on against YOU.

When Cop A sexually assaults YOUR wife,

http://www.lookintoit.org/images/Roadside%20Cavity%20Searches4.jpg

when Cop B shoots YOUR labrador,

http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/coeur-dalene-arfie.jpg


and when Cop C roughs up YOUR KID and puts him in a cage for a decade over possession of illegal flowers...



Then maybe... just maybe: that spark of resistance will be lit.


For many of us, not yet personally involved, in this WAR against freedom...

there is this intense vicarious pain we feel that simply doesn't subside; doesn't fade; doesn't go away...

Day after day, it is refreshed by the images we find in the media:


http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1332215/thumbs/s-KIM-NGUYEN-large.jpg?6

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/21/article-2104228-11D66E27000005DC-942_306x354.jpg

http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Video/__NEW/_News%20Channel/nc_grenade_140707.nbcnews-video-reststate-480.jpg

http://tftppull.freethoughtllc.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/blogger-image-1100182094.jpg

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/assets_c/2011/01/Alexander%20Landau%20police%20beating%201-thumb-300x378.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RL81B7roTY4/0.jpg


I wake up in the middle of the night and see these faces; the cruelty branded in my subconscious.


And when the only redemption we get from any of this is civil damages; SANCTIONS paid by the TAX PAYER, that smug callousness; that irreverent despotism makes Cop D




http://i.imgur.com/c072Szv.jpg

wearing the gang banger uniform







http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site577/2013/0206/20130206__Christopher-Dorner_200.JPG

far beneath any sympathy many of us can muster.

[limequat]

/thread

[Anti Federalist]

AF, you are honestly one of my "liberty" heroes. It hurts me to think that you think so little of my posts on this issue, after all you've done to bring me around, so please allow me to explain...

Thank you.

I do not "think little" of what you have posted, I understand your point completely.

Like I said, I think our disconnect is that you don't believe that we have had a war declared upon us, whereas I do.

And when you have war brought right to your door, one does not care about the relative moral worth of the man wearing the uniform.


It's not "all on" them. We, as citizens of these USA, have allowed the laws of this country to get out of hand. The entire idea of modern policing comes from the power of democratic tyranny of the majority. Cops reflect the very, very worst of any society that chooses to select them in the way we do. If you choose criminals as cops, your cops will be criminal. We gave them this power; we can remove it by refusing to obey their petty authority en masse.

Well, hell, I'm voting as hard as I can.

Seriously, there comes a point where you just have to resist regardless of how many others may think differently.


Meanwhile, shooting them at random only gets the wrath of god called down on your ass.

No doubt.

[jjdoyle]

I'm voting as hard as I can.

I'm voting as hard as I can.

I'm voting as hard as I can.

This is the solution, and you are leading by example.
I'm not sure if all of my letters, emails, and phone calls actually make a difference, but at least if I waste my time showing up to vote, I know others are doing the same at the end of the night when I see the results reported. It makes me feel like I'm part of a team, and a great American.

Also, while you might be voting as hard as you can and that is awesome, please make sure to continue to donate every spare dime YOU have to the liberty organizations. We have been making such great progress, in many key areas. They just need more money to write more letters, submit more petitions, and lobby more congressmen.

[Christian Liberty]

(Again. I am not claiming that being a cop is a victimless crime. But it is not a CAPITAL crime for a GIVEN INDIVIDUAL if that GIVEN INDIVIDUAL has not committed a capital crime. Until I hear proof that frein was in mortal danger from this cop, I see no justification for his murder.)





I mostly agree, but to play devil's advocate, is kidnapping people for drug use not a capital crime? I'm not necessarily saying every single cop does that (I honestly don't know) but there are many who do.

Mind you, I also usually factor in a mitigating factor for ignorance.

[nobody's_hero]

lol, I'm going on 30 years.

3 decades then. You may still have time.

[presence]

if someone walloped the guy as retribution for his alleged despicable deeds, that’s unacceptable

http://www.timesleader.com/news/editorial/50628513/OUR-VIEW-Freins-face-deserves-closer-look


Frein suffered the injuries
"while they had him down on the pavement" (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2014/11/us_marshals_hunch_led_eric_fre.html)

- US Marshall Service



http://imgick.lehighvalleylive.com/home/lvlive-media/width620/img/breaking-news_impact/photo/16225646-mmmain.jpg



"There was no struggle with law enforcement," Bivens said.
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2014/11/eric_frein_stories_differ_on_h.html




What happened to Frein’s face matters, because it says something about how much faith all of us can place in our law enforcement officers to do the right thing. They’re entrusted to stick to the rules when the public is following their every move and, more so, when no one is watching.



"I think we all know for a fact he didn't get it in the woods," Tiffany Frein
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/04/tiffany-frein_n_6101194.html

[devil21]

The clean shaven survivalist Eric Frein has now been charged with "terrorism", due to his alleged statements against the government prior to his alleged shooting of a cop that was fucking his brother's wife.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/13/eric-frein-suspect-in-pennsylvania-state-trooper-ambush-charged-with-terrorism/?intcmp=latestnews



The two counts of terrorism stem from Frein allegedly shooting the two troopers with purpose of influencing the policy of government and affecting the conduct of government, according to a criminal complaint filed in Pike County, Pa.
.............
According to an affidavit filed in Pike County, Frein, 31, also wrote a letter to his parents in December that was discovered on a thumb drive seized along with more than 100 items at the time of his arrest.

"Our nation is far from what it was and what it should be," Frein wrote in the letter. "There is so much wrong and on so many levels only passing through the crucible of another revolution can get us back the liberties we once had. I do not pretend to know what that revolution will look like or even if it would be successful."

[Czolgosz]

I support Frein.

[alucard13mm]

Wait wait... Frein is being charged with terrorism? It seems to me that the only people Frein terrorized was the police and was mostly harmless to everyone else.

But.. we just had a Muslim guy beheading some christian ladies in a food processing plant... And the Fort Hood shooter that was shooting military personnel because the military was killing Muslims. Those other guys are just work related violence.

It is kinda funny how the government and media is so easily call for terrorism charges against white people... Sucks to be a white man in todays time.

[staerker]

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct

Did you get that, slave?

[tod evans]

Quote Originally Posted by http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition
18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct

So you're supposed to lie down and whimper when governments agents screw your kin....

Got it...:rolleyes:

[limequat]

"Terrorism" is when the people use force against the state.
The word for when the state uses force against the people is "Peace-keeping".

[limequat]

"Tension is high at the moment and the time seems right for a spark to ignite a fire in the hearts of men."

- Eric Frein, according to an affidavit

Careful guys. This could be a dog whistle.

[squarepusher]

It is kinda funny how the government and media is so easily call for terrorism charges against white people... Sucks to be a white man in todays time.

what planet are you living on?

Terrorism simply means someone made you scared. Its subjective, did Frein make people scared? Then he is a terrorist.

[limequat]

Wait wait... Frein is being charged with terrorism? It seems to me that the only people Frein terrorized was the police and was mostly harmless to everyone else.

But.. we just had a Muslim guy beheading some christian ladies in a food processing plant... And the Fort Hood shooter that was shooting military personnel because the military was killing Muslims. Those other guys are just work related violence.

It is kinda funny how the government and media is so easily call for terrorism charges against white people... Sucks to be a white man in todays time.

Uh...I don't think race has anything to do with it. It sounds like Frein was genuinely trying to incite revolution. In which case...well...it kinda is terrorism. But you know what they say: one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[limequat]

So you're supposed to lie down and whimper when governments agents screw your kin....

Got it...:rolleyes:

Adultery is not a capital offense. Besides, this isn't about that. It's ostensibly about the next american revolution.

[amy31416]

what planet are you living on?

Terrorism simply means someone made you scared. Its subjective, did Frein make people scared? Then he is a terrorist.

So you could definitely call many gov't actors, cops and even teachers terrorists with that definition.

[pcosmar]

"Tension is high at the moment and the time seems right for a spark to ignite a fire in the hearts of men."

- Eric Frein, according to an affidavit

Careful guys. This could be a dog whistle.

This is aimed at the patriots of Bundy Ranch. It ain't over.

[pcosmar]

. It sounds like Frein was genuinely trying to incite revolution.

Well,, that is how they are portraying it.
(and it is possible)
I am still suspicious of the whole story.

[FloralScent]

Adultery is not a capital offense.

No, but it should be.

[brushfire]

No, but it should be.
http://new2.fjcdn.com/comments/As+an+aspiring+writer+it+gives+me+a+weird+combinat ion+_00bf998e5af9a20546bf4984ec5366f5.jpg

[Pericles]

Adultery is not a capital offense.

You are not a Muslim, I presume?

[squarepusher]

So you could definitely call many gov't actors, cops and even teachers terrorists with that definition.

it just depends if you are in a position to enforce the rule, or not.

[FloralScent]

http://new2.fjcdn.com/comments/As+an+aspiring+writer+it+gives+me+a+weird+combinat ion+_00bf998e5af9a20546bf4984ec5366f5.jpg


Let me clarify, I don't think the state should prosecute adultery, but if some swinging dick gets shot boning a married woman, that should fall under the "he needed killin'" defense à la Dan Sickles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Sickles).

[Valli6]

The clean shaven survivalist Eric Frein has now been charged with "terrorism", due to his alleged statements against the government prior to his alleged shooting of a cop that was fucking his brother's wife.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/13/eric-frein-suspect-in-pennsylvania-state-trooper-ambush-charged-with-terrorism/?intcmp=latestnews
The comments on this story - dated today - are closed?

Comments are currently closed for this article
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/13/eric-frein-suspect-in-pennsylvania-state-trooper-ambush-charged-with-terrorism/?intcmp=latestnews


I'm trying to understand the motive - or at least the alledged motive.
I've heard nearly zero discussion of motive. :confused:

They're implying Frein picked these 2 cops at random, to kill, in order to start a revolution.
Court papers say Frein called it an "assassination" to "wake people up."
And they've determined this from a 6 paragraph letter he sent to his parents in December of 2013 complaining about the government.
Quote:

"Our nation is far from what it was and what it should be," Frein's letter begins. "There is so much wrong and on so many levels only passing through the crucible of another revolution can get us back the liberties we once had. I do not pretend to know what that revolution will look like or even if it would be successful."
He didn't know either of these two cops, and never had any dealings with any cops before?
Is that it? That's the entire story we're going to get?

[amy31416]

it just depends if you are in a position to enforce the rule, or not.

So those in a position to enforce the rule can not be terrorists?

[acptulsa]

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct

Did you get that, slave?

All voters are terrorists. Got it.

And if all voters are terrorists, I guess that makes grassroots activists the ringleaders. Next thing you know, the Missouri Highway Patrol will be pulling people over just because they have the wrong campaign's bumper sticker on their cars...

Oh, wait...

[Pericles]

So those in a position to enforce the rule can not be terrorists?

QED along the lines of Treason doth never prosper, for if it prosper, none dare call it treason.

[Anti Federalist]

So you're supposed to lie down and whimper when governments agents screw your kin....


18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct

Got it...:rolleyes:

Of course, it is perfectly legal to intimidate, coerce and terrorize us Mundanes.

https://can2-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/petitions/photos/000/005/049/original/babbyboo.jpg

http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/january2014/140114thomas.jpg

http://www.lewrockwell.com/assets/2014/02/nick-christie-pepper-sprayed-300x225.jpg

[tod evans]

Of course, it is perfectly legal to intimidate, coerce and terrorize us Mundanes.


Terrorist!

[devil21]

The comments on this story - dated today - are closed?


I'm trying to understand the motive - or at least the alledged motive.
I've heard nearly zero discussion of motive. :confused:

They're implying Frein picked these 2 cops at random, to kill, in order to start a revolution.
Court papers say Frein called it an "assassination" to "wake people up."
And they've determined this from a 6 paragraph letter he sent to his parents in December of 2013 complaining about the government.
Quote:

He didn't know either of these two cops, and never had any dealings with any cops before?
Is that it? That's the entire story we're going to get?

Im still convinced the entire thing, or at least 95%, was a long police drill. Everything after the initial reports of a shooting and a person-of-interest-in-custody, however, has been turned into forwarding a political agenda. The only motive given in early reports was that one of the cops shot was screwing Frein's brother's wife. This new terrorism add-on follows this political agenda, imo. The narrative since those initial reports all have been a little too convenient toward who the feds (SPLC actually) have spent years trying to demonize.

(btw Ive noticed a trend that comment sections on msm articles that chronicle events that show evidence of being drills/faked/etc are closed quickly or are never opened in the first place. too many people are catching on to the shenanigans and posting comments about it.)

[Occam's Banana]

And this is not OK. Intentionally provoking cops into outsized responses (as the shooter, possibly Frein, did here) certainly doesn't help anything, and allows for justification for further outsizes responses.

Members here seem to enjoy projecting their own ideas onto this blank slate that is Frein.
Thought: "Cops are evil: Frein shot 2 to start the revolution!"
Reality: "Policing in this country is fucked: Frein shot 2 cops and gave people a reason to support cops again!"

Reality: One man shot a couple of cops in Pennsylvania - and thousands of cops from several states spent weeks and millions of dollars disruptively hut-hutting around and harassing innocent people and making a huge spectacle of the affair. Meanwhile in New Orleans, it is revealed that cops just flat-out ignored over 1,000 reports of sex crimes against mundanes (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?462969-Report-reveals-Police-Detectives-ignored-over-1-000-Sex-Crime-Related-Calls).

I do not condone what Frein did - but there is NO "justification" for such lopsidedly "outsized" responses. Whatever condemnation one man like Frein might deserve for his actions as an individual, it is the cops who are a FAR greater danger to society and who deserve FAR greater condemnation.

However grave Frein's sins may be, there is NO good reason to cater to the sensibilities of the sort of people who regard those sins as "a reason to support cops." Those who find any "justification" for the "outsized response" to Frein's actions merely because those actions were directed against cops (rather than mundanes) are beyond being reasoned with. They are the sort of people who would find some excuse for "justification" no matter what Frein's motives may have been.

Regardless of what one thinks of Frein, the copsuckers should NOT be pandered to. If it is to be in any way conceded that the cops' grotesquely disproportionate response is somehow "justified" by Frein's actions or motives (especially when contrasted with the cops' responses to the victimization of mundanes), then one might as well just give up criticizing cops at all ...

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Sounds to me like a guy who had certain political views. Just like everyone else. Sounds also like a guy who took exception to somebody jacking around his brother. The political views sounds incidental to the main action.

You won't hear about this in the news. Local news outlets won't pursue it because they need to have a good relationship with law enforcement to get those juicy stories.

[Suzanimal]

JUST IN: The cost of the Frein manhunt
Police estimate cost at $10 to $11 million


PENNSYLVANIA —News 8 has learned more about the cost of the Eric Frein manhunt and what police say may have been his motive for shooting state troopers.

State Police Commissioner Frank Noonan estimated the cost to catch Frein was between $10 and 11 million.

This comes a day after new court documents shed light on a possible motive for his opening fire on the police barracks on Sept. 12.

Police say after Frein's capture he told them he was upset with the government and wanted to make a change, but there was no one worth voting for. He told them he shot the troopers because he wanted to "wake people up."

In a letter police say Frein wrote to his parents, he said "tension is high" and "the time seems right for a spark to ignite a fire in the hearts of men."

Here's a breakdown of the Frein manhunt from Pennsylvania State Police:

Salaries $657,468.81
Wages $257.25
Over Time $6,890,864.35
Benefits $2,778,618.87
Oth Emp Pd Benefits $148,707.28

Personnel Services
$10,475,916.56

Travel $66,359.30
Utilities/Comm $13,418.63

Services $57,404.58

Rentals/Leases $324.00
Supplies $10,428.31

Equipment (NFA) $9,989.95

Inventory Exp $151,691.99

Oth Op Expenses $261,119.70
Operational Expenses $570,831.28
COMMITMENT ITEM HIER
$11,046,653.02


http://www.wgal.com/news/just-in-the-cost-of-frein-search/29729458

[Spikender]

It's nice to see that one cop killer is worth millions while all of the mundane killers get filed into a backlog.

[LibForestPaul]

Of course, it is perfectly legal to intimidate, coerce and terrorize us Mundanes.

https://can2-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/petitions/photos/000/005/049/original/babbyboo.jpg

http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/january2014/140114thomas.jpg

http://www.lewrockwell.com/assets/2014/02/nick-christie-pepper-sprayed-300x225.jpg

I really want a shirt with a pic of that baby.
This is your police state in action.
Suck it and see.

[devil21]

http://www.wgal.com/news/just-in-the-cost-of-frein-search/29729458

Over Time $6,890,864.35

[osan]

I really want a shirt with a pic of that baby.

It is my most profound wish and hope that the good people of America will come to their senses and put men such as these to terrible, agony-laced ends. It is too good for them, but I will settle myself with even that meager justice.

Would that I could chase them for eternity throughout the catacombs of Hell, for I would make such a show of it that the Devil himself would flee in open terror of my wrath.

[Anti Federalist]

It is my most profound wish and hope that the good people of America will come to their senses and put men such as these to terrible, agony-laced ends. It is too good for them, but I will settle myself with even that meager justice.

Would that I could chase them for eternity throughout the catacombs of Hell, for I would make such a show of it that the Devil himself would flee in open terror of my wrath.

I thought of the following when I read that.

This was penned in response to a case from two years ago, where cops, bless their hearts, showed up un-announced, to inform a family that their son had just been murdered.

And shot the family dog for them.

"Hey! He wasn't using Poochy anymore, was he?"



Screwtape Wept

http://www.theagitator.com/2012/07/12/screwtape-wept/

Thursday, July 12th, 2012

My Dear Wormwood,

As discussed in my last letter, your patient’s decision to join the police department seemed a mixed development at best. It is true that Hell follows no law save the most ancient, “Eat or be eaten.” But as a general rule we want to discourage the creatures from obeying any laws, even of their own devising. Despite the best efforts of our most fiendish disputants, we in the Lowerarchy are unable, as yet, to remove from their laws all that reeks of the Enemy, such as justice, temperance, chastity, and respect for their fellow vermin. Still, we have made great strides in this age toward bending those who enforce the laws, such as your patient, to the commendable vices of cruelty, corruption, graft, influence-peddling, and the forsaking of oaths. So I did not discourage your patient’s occupation, as long as he could be steered onto a path which would eventually bring him to Our Father’s House.

Until I received this report from our colleague Skrimcheez, who is in charge of the local newspaper editor: Henrico police shoot pet as they notify family of son’s homicide. As you can see, the report is lavishly illustrated, and spares no detail. It appears that your patient, while performing his mundane duty of notifying one of the humans that her child had been murdered, discharged his weapon into the child’s dog. Your patient claimed to have done so out of fear (no doubt of your urging) that the animal posed a threat to the patient’s safety. I have carefully read the report, and it raises several questions regarding your care of the patient.

The first of which is: ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND? What kind of FUCKING LUNATIC would shoot the GOD-DAMNED FAMILY DOG as he was approaching the GOD-DAMNED FAMILY HOME to notify them that THEIR SON HAD BEEN MURDERED? YOU ASSHOLE! Hell is TOO GOOD for this son of a bitch! I thought I was cruel! I thought I was merciless, but YOU…

(Here the manuscript breaks off, and is resumed in another hand.)

In my rage and fury at reading of your despicable patient’s exploits, I find that I have transformed into a vampire bat. My secretary shall compose the remainder of this letter under my dictation.

There are some things, Wormwood, that are too vile even for us. Admittedly, before today, I could not have named one of those things. But shooting the family dog, on the way to notifying the family that its son has been found murdered in the street, is such a thing. Hell has majesty, Wormwood. Even the foulest fiend in the most abysmal of our pits would not sink to such a depth.

Rest assured, Wormwood, that your patient has found his place in Our Father’s House. Indeed he shall be most welcome here. We shall make a sport of him, a plaything, a feast to be savoured slowly with all the cruelty our tormentors can devise. And yet, for all of the anguish that shall be his, for eternity and more, his torment will only barely exceed what he has brought upon this family.

Common murderers are, as the Americans put it, a dime a dozen. It takes a special cruelty, one I would call beyond diabolical if there could be such a thing, to kill the family dog before notifying the family of a death.

Your disgusted uncle,

Screwtape.

(Signed in his abysmal excellency’s disability by his secretary, Toadpipe, B.S.M., D.T.)