Blimp Project: Be Informed!

[skiingff]

So everyone in this main forum, which likely receives 90+% of the site traffic can be informed... can we please leave this post here?

$52,000 per year salaries will be paid to 8 blimp staff. That's $416,000 per year in salaries alone. On top of that; all food, room & board, and airfare expenses incurred by staff will be paid for by "donation" money.

Source: http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php

In comparison, let's take U.S. Soldiers, who get most of their living expenses paid for just like the blimp staff. But they only start out at $18,000 per year, not $52,000.

Talk about big government. Sheesh.

Blimp staff: getting paid 3x as much to do "work" 1,000x easier:
Fly around in a blimp all day.

Not on my dime.

EDIT: For the record, I don't necessarily think the idea itself is bad. I do, however, take issue with people trying to profit BIGTIME from the grassroots. They get all their living expenses paid for, + airfare etc., and still want 52k? This is pure greed... I say cut the salaries in half.



EDIT 2:

5 of the 7 salaries have been cut in half, and from what I understand the "goal" is to get the blimp off the ground before paying salaries. Furthermore, the Blimp company has agreed to allow a citizen watchdog "committee" have complete access to the budget and financial records -- we need to get such committee established ASAP.

There's still thousands of dollars that could easily be cut from the proposed blimp expenses (we work hard for our money, and we expect others will treat it as such, and not spend like a bunch of drunken sailors). But I commend the blimp staff for acknowledging our concerns and acting in accordance.

Therefore, despite any shortcomings, I encourage everyone to get with the program, so we can get this thing in the air and act as a team.

[Mental Dribble]

Great, not on your dime. I'm supporting the effort and many others are as well.

This event will not go on for a year so your 416,000 number is bogus. Secondly these people are giving up their full time jobs for this. We need motivated, intelligent people planning this. You can't always rely on people who have to steal moments away from work and after class to run this campaign. Get with it man.

[kotetu]

how about listing what the 8 people are doing. $26 dollars an hour (assuming they are working on this full time), is not much these days, even if it is a lot more than a lot of people are making.

[paulitics]

There is a such thing as an opportunity cost. If these people quit working, than they should be compensated. Let the market decide, if its excessive, than someone else can volunteer for less money perhaps. All in all, the idea is good.

[Indy Vidual]

Many people are finally ready for real change.

http://www.1life1time.com/images/rp.jpg


Congressman Ron Paul: Archives (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html) (Dr. Ron Paul in his own words and brilliant writings)

[Mental Dribble]

Indy, I love your simple message. Its so True.

[Emac]

.
Probably ok to put it as $8000 per week in staff salaries.

Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen and had orginal concept for a Ron Paul Blimp in mid-June. Trevor will conduct most interviews with the press.
$1,000/week
Elijah Lynn - Individual who got momentum for this project going and made arrangements with fellow Ron Paul supporter.
$1,000/week
Jerry Collette - Paralegal and Manager
$1,000/week
Videographer 1 - Videographer 1 will be in the blimp filming the passengers or in other aircraft taping the blimp with the passengers in it. When not in the air they will also be taping another perspective.
$1,000/week
Videographer 2 - Videographer 2 will be on the ground filming all of the rallies and the aerial displays.
$1,000/week
Bryce Henderson- Company Media Coordinator
$1,000/week
Joe Amidon - Assistant Manager
$1,000/week
Joel Lemieux - On Location Media Coordinator
Volunteer - Expenses paid
Katherine
Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses
Webmaster/Web developer (added 12/02/2008 @ 8:10 MST)
$1,000/week

[Emac]

Legal expenses, $10,000 retainer, $500 per hour and $100 per hour.

Brad Smith - Former FEC chairman and one of the leading election lawyers in the country.
$10,000 retainer
$500 hour
Jim Fosbinder - Our first amendment attorney who will fight for our right to fly in restricted airspace. Whether we win or lose we will be making the headlines and getting major media attention.
$100 hour

[Pete Kay]

Whoa! I hadn't been following this development with the outrageous salaries. I make $600 dollars a week. There's no way I'm giving those guys my money. I've gotten sick of Trevor Lyman trying to take credit for November 5th. That was a grassroots movement. He wasn't the mastermind and now it seems that it has gotten to his head and expects him and all his buddies to get fat salaries. It's sad to see that something that started out with such good intentions should become such a perfect example of corruption in politics.

[fletcher]

Big government's got nothing on Trevor and Elijah. Pure greed. Disgusting.

[tremendoustie]

I originally pledged, but no way would I donate to this boondoggle in its current state. If people want to donate, good for them, and I'd certainly love to see a Ron Paul blimp in the sky, but this type of extravagance will eat up all the donations. In my opinion, we don't need to pay full time staff to conduct interviews, be "managers" whatever that means, "media coordinators", and a full time dedicated webmaster? I work hard for my money. Do we really think they'll be that many interviews, every day, that we multiple full time people on it?

Go for it if you have the money, it'd be great to see a blimp in the sky, but I'm going to put my money where most of it won't be eaten up paying non-experts top wages to perform jobs that look like 1 hour a day max.

And "Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen" -- WTH?? I am very grateful to him for setting up the website, as I'm sure we all are, and for the hard volunteer work he's put in, but unless he donated 4 million that I don't know about or was behind all of the numerous youtube videos and the endless internet promotion that we all worked hard at, this is BS. We all did it.

We just need to pay the blimp company to fly the blimp around. Maybe one person on a semi-volunteer basis to work out tickets and ride with the press in the blimp. That's it.

[Ron LOL]

.
Probably ok to put it as $8000 per week in staff salaries.

Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen and had orginal concept for a Ron Paul Blimp in mid-June. Trevor will conduct most interviews with the press.
$1,000/week
Elijah Lynn - Individual who got momentum for this project going and made arrangements with fellow Ron Paul supporter.
$1,000/week
Jerry Collette - Paralegal and Manager
$1,000/week
Videographer 1 - Videographer 1 will be in the blimp filming the passengers or in other aircraft taping the blimp with the passengers in it. When not in the air they will also be taping another perspective.
$1,000/week
Videographer 2 - Videographer 2 will be on the ground filming all of the rallies and the aerial displays.
$1,000/week
Bryce Henderson- Company Media Coordinator
$1,000/week
Joe Amidon - Assistant Manager
$1,000/week
Joel Lemieux - On Location Media Coordinator
Volunteer - Expenses paid
Katherine
Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses
Webmaster/Web developer (added 12/02/2008 @ 8:10 MST)
$1,000/week
Are these true figures, or just something you whipped up for the sake of illustration? These jobs aren't even close to being worth the same salary...much less $1,000/wk.

[skiingff]

Here is a convincing argument.


I find it interesting how clearly the blimp project represents what has happened with our Federal government.

The blimp project started out as a simple 200K grass roots idea to promote Ron Paul but has ballooned into a 500K per month project.

Add spot-lights...

Add chase cars...

Add mini-blimps...

Add lawyers...

Add marketing staff...

Add managers to supervise...

The project grows by the hour...

Surely, Rudolph the red nosed reindeer will needed to guide this blimp tonight... for a fee.

Individuals who raise objections here are attacked in the most disgusting manners and reported to The Department of RonPaulForums security.

Threads about this are moved to obscure sections of the forum so that they will not be discussed. CNN would be proud of this tactic.

Soon, I expect to hear about a 3rd party financing plan to get the project up an running quickly... Surely, this blimp is so important that we must have it now and can pay for it later.

[Second_Tier_My_Ass]

I guess it all depends on how badly we want this.

Personally, it sounds like this plan will keep the government out of it as much as possible. If we formed a PAC, any money donated to the blimp fund would basically be money which could never be donated to RP's campaign. In the long run, paying the salary of a few people might be a small price to pay. However, I THINK SOME DRASTIC CHANGES NEED TO BE MET BEFORE MOST PEOPLE WILL JUMP ON BOARD WITH THIS PLAN.

The staff ABSOLUTELY MUST be cut by several people. I don't think they really need all those people. Here's how I see it...


Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen and had orginal concept for a Ron Paul Blimp in mid-June. Trevor will conduct most interviews with the press.
$1,000/week

I can see the need to have ONE PERSON who would be in charge of talking with the media and doing interviews and organizing when to bring people aboard and drop them off. Yes, one person can easily do all of this.

Elijah Lynn - Individual who got momentum for this project going and made arrangements with fellow Ron Paul supporter.
$1,000/week

OK, but what is his job??? I don't care what he did in the past. What are we going to PAY HIM to do??? Seems to me he doesn't even have a job, so this position is easily cut.

Jerry Collette - Paralegal and Manager
$1,000/week

Managing what? The pilots are flying it. A route and timetable can be set up easily, by just about anyone. What is there to manage? And we already have 2 high-priced lawyers. Cut this person.

Videographer 1 - Videographer 1 will be in the blimp filming the passengers or in other aircraft taping the blimp with the passengers in it. When not in the air they will also be taping another perspective.
$1,000/week
Videographer 2 - Videographer 2 will be on the ground filming all of the rallies and the aerial displays.
$1,000/week

I don't think we need 2 videographers. Do you have any idea how many people have camcorders and an internet connection in this country? Trust me, once this blimp starts flying over major cities, there will be hundreds, if not thousands of youtube videos of it. Ron Paul supporters ALREADY film all of the rallies anyway. We don't need anybody on the ground filming the blimp. As for the airborne videographer... well, doesn't the media bring their own cameras anyway? It's not like the MSM is going to use footage that we shoot. They'll just shoot their own footage of the blimp. The price is too high for some neat little clips of the inside of the blimp. We don't need it, we can't afford it. Both videographers are cut (along with the price of the camcorders, laptops and other video equipment.

Bryce Henderson- Company Media Coordinator
$1,000/week

Again, I thought Trevor was going to be talking with the media. Cut this person.

Joe Amidon - Assistant Manager
$1,000/week

If we don't need a manager, we sure as hell don't need an assistant manager. Cut.

Joel Lemieux - On Location Media Coordinator
Volunteer - Expenses paid

Volunteer? Sounds great!

Katherine
Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses

Volunteer? Sounds great!

Webmaster/Web developer (added 12/02/2008 @ 8:10 MST)
$1,000/week

Are you telling me there isn't a tech-savvy person somewhere on these forums who would be willing to watch after the blimp website for free? Seriously, how much updating does it require? This can easily be a volunteer-based position, and it can involve the help from multiple people to lighten the load. Cut this position.



There, THIS IS HOW RON PAUL WOULD RUN THIS PROJECT, and therefore, as Ron Paul supporters, this is how we should run it.

What's wrong with having the pilots fly the blimp and letting a few supporters (people who donated a lot) ride for a bit, but otherwise allow the blimp to speak for itself? I can understand having one person onboard to coordinate stuff and talk with the media, and if Trevor wants to do it and receive a weekly salary for his troubles, I'd let him. But this project has quickly become bloated. The important message is on the outside of the blimp, not the people within who don't necessarily speak for the campaign or for the grassroots movement. Clearly, we don't need to have so many people involved. Keeping the staff down to a minimum would allow for much more flying time.




ATTN: TREVOR or anyone else involved with the organization of the blimp idea...

You have very little time (only a few days) to make these changes, or it will become too late. People are upset by what is taking place and I urge you to listen. I believe the plan I've set in place would work far greater than the current plan because my plan would piss off less people and they would be more willing to donate. The goal here is to put a f*cking Ron Paul blimp in the air, not to start a company with a full staff with full-time paying jobs. It was a good idea to avoid setting up a PAC and doing all of this privately, but this project has gone way overboard. You don't need 99% of the things you've listed in order to reach this goal.

I see that you have several volunteers on your staff. That is admirable, and I wish there was more of this taking place. All you had to do was ask for volunteers on these forums and your inbox would have been flooded with people who would actually be willing to take leave from their jobs for a week or two at a time and go help out with the blimp project. It could have been a truly grassroots effort, and it still can be!!!

PLEASE, I BEG OF YOU, listen to these words before it is too late!!!

[Pete Kay]

And "Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen" -- WTH?? I am very grateful to him for setting up the website, as I'm sure we all are, and for the hard volunteer work he's put in, but unless he donated 4 million that I don't know about or was behind all of the numerous youtube videos and the endless internet promotion that we all worked hard at, this is BS. We all did it.




Exactly. I originally thought the press was uninformed by stating that Trevor was behind November 5th. It turns out that Trevor is actually promoting himself as the mastermind. It's such a joke. He didn't come up with the idea and I didn't even know about his website until a few days before the 5th. It was viral marketing. I learned about it through youtube and blog postings. His gigantic ego will ruin these fundraising events. It's not about him, it's about everybody. Ron Paul has the sense to acknowledge this. Too bad Trevor doesn't.

[fletcher]

Are these true figures, or just something you whipped up for the sake of illustration? These jobs aren't even close to being worth the same salary...much less $1,000/wk.

It's real.
http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php

[Elijah]

Exactly. I originally thought the press was uninformed by stating that Trevor was behind November 5th. It turns out that Trevor is actually promoting himself as the mastermind. It's such a joke. He didn't come up with the idea and I didn't even know about his website until a few days before the 5th. It was viral marketing. I learned about it through youtube and blog postings. His gigantic ego will ruin these fundraising events. It's not about him, it's about everybody. Ron Paul has the sense to acknowledge this. Too bad Trevor doesn't.

Trevor uses every chance he gets to tell the media it was NOT HIS IDEA. It is not his fault if the news decides to LEAVE IT OUT!

[Mental Dribble]

He said the idea sprang up when he saw someone propose a mass one-day online fundraising drive in a Ron Paul meetup group. - ABC news

NOT TAKING CREDIT THERE.

I could spend more time finding many more quotes where trevor talks about the massive grassroots but I dont have any more time to waste on you nay sayers. Really guys and gals, do you truely believe in your hear that your helping the campaign by being so negative? If you dont agree, carry on and move out to something else, dont try to bring others down around you. FIND COMMON GOALS, BRIDGE THE GAP and GET THINGS DOWN. Your turning into the same people that block progress in congress, its so very very sad... I dont understand why you cant see that...

[skiingff]

Trevor uses every chance he gets to tell the media it was NOT HIS IDEA. It is not his fault if the news decides to LEAVE IT OUT!

Elijah, would you be willing to address the salary issue?

Personally, I like the blimp idea.

I realize what's going on. I take a long time to respond to most issues; because I sit back and watch and gather facts first.

My concern is with the salaries. I believe they're excessive. We all know the blimp staff will have the power to appropriate money for their living expenses no matter what. Why, then, the additional 52k on top of that?

Would you be willing to cut the salaries in half? Why or why not?

[Bodhi]

Big government's got nothing on Trevor and Elijah. Pure greed. Disgusting.

I second that. I watched Elijah as a new forum member with very few posts bring up the idea for the blimp and then start asking for hundreds of thousands in donations. That in itself was a red flag.

Now trever has joined in. He has been given a lot more credit than he deserves in my opinion. He didn't come up with the November 5th idea, he just built a simple website. The November 5th victory has very little to do with Trevor or his website and everything to do with Ron Paul and his message. The way I see it he may be using the media attention for self promotion and self profit.

Now together they are asking for salaries? Buyer beware on this one.

I think they are trying to milk the Ron Paul gravy train. I can stand the "webmasters" that make a quick pro Ron Paul website full of ads and then use the members of this forum to generate traffic and a quick buck for themselves but what is going on with this blimp is way beyond that.

Everyone is free to do what they want with their own money and if they don't see a problem with what is happening then go for it.

Personally, all I can do is call it like I see it and this one has SCAM written all over it.

[Isupportliberty]

1k dollars a week? you have got to be kidding us...

# Katherine

* Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses

Now that's something I can support. None of us who spend our time out there canvassing and talking with potential supporters do it for a salary. We do it because we are on a mission to help get Dr. Paul's message out there. We volunteer our time and energy for this great cause and we don't ask for anything in return. Shame on those trying to profit from this collaborative effort. I can't support the blimp idea in its current state... it feels tainted.

[skiingff]

1k dollars a week? you have got to be kidding us...

# Katherine

* Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses

Now that's something I can support. None of us who spend our time out there canvassing and talking with potential supporters do it for a salary. We do it because we are on a mission to help get Dr. Paul's message out there. We volunteer our time and energy for this great cause and we don't ask for anything in return. Shame on those trying to profit from this collaborative effort. I can't support the blimp idea in its current state... it feels tainted.

Amen brother.

I have requested an official explanation from Elijah and am still awaiting it.

[saahmed]

annual salary? i thought this was just for a month, maybe two. Beyond that it is pretty pointless. I personally think the cost on this is too high and not worth it, but if people are willing to fund it i guess it doesnt hurt.

[tremendoustie]

1k dollars a week? you have got to be kidding us...

# Katherine

* Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses

Now that's something I can support. None of us who spend our time out there canvassing and talking with potential supporters do it for a salary. We do it because we are on a mission to help get Dr. Paul's message out there. We volunteer our time and energy for this great cause and we don't ask for anything in return. Shame on those trying to profit from this collaborative effort. I can't support the blimp idea in its current state... it feels tainted.

+1

[OferNave]

Whoa! I hadn't been following this development with the outrageous salaries. I make $600 dollars a week. There's no way I'm giving those guys my money. I've gotten sick of Trevor Lyman trying to take credit for November 5th. That was a grassroots movement. He wasn't the mastermind and now it seems that it has gotten to his head and expects him and all his buddies to get fat salaries. It's sad to see that something that started out with such good intentions should become such a perfect example of corruption in politics.

Woa... hold on there. Feel free to share your opinion on whether the salaries are fair, but don't lay false accusations on Trevor. He has never taken credit for Nov 5. I've heard him interviewed a dozen times, and every time he comes off as uncomfortable when the reporter asks "how'd you do it?", and he has to reiterate that it wasn't his idea, he just helped with the website, and it was everyone donating and spreading the word that made it happen, etc.

The reason he's become a center of attention is because people like having heroes, and people like human stories. That's hardly Trevor's fault. The way I judge situations like that (because they happen ALL the time), is how a person uses his new status - and Trevor has remained both productive and cooperative since. That tells me what I need to know.

Argue the details of the blimp project all you like, but don't slander a genuinely good and dedicated person like Trevor.

[PeacePlan]

I just hope a bunch of money that could have went to Ron Paul on the 16th does not get wasted if this does not fly. I hope they hold all monies collected and refund them if they do not receive enough cash to make this happen?

If say only 250k is taken in will it still fly? Will the money be spent even if it is not enough?

[ProfNo]

These salaries are definitely excessive (except for the lawyers, which I think is fair). This should be a labor of love, and many people would do it for a lot less---and even for nothing.

Why should I care? If I don't like it, don't donate, right?

The problem is, all of these issues are slowing up the project from being completed, i.e., getting the blimp in the air.

The real way to do this would be to not have so many people on the staff---it looks like too many people wanted in the gravy train. All you need is one paid staffer, and everything else could be volunteer. If people are giving their money, they will certainly give their time.

Seriously, Trevors job is to "talk to the press" and he gets 1000 a week for this? His website for the 5th caught on, but remember that half the people that contributed did not even pledge.

[leipo]

This turned out to be a disaster.

[skiingff]

This turned out to be a disaster.

This isn't a disaster, IMO. But the excessive salaries and benefits must go. Then no one would be arguing.

EDIT:
No other volunteers get paid 52k salaries + benefits. We volunteer because we believe in the cause, not because we can profit from it. If the Revolution continues to go downhill like this... everyone will be adding in salaries for their volunteer activities. Ridiculous. We must put our foot down in principle to this craziness.

We're all still awaiting an official response as to why they need 52k + living expenses. Who are we really helping advance here? Ron Paul, or some fat cats who will be made that much wealthier?

Principle.

[Benaiah]

bump because people need to know this.

[Drknows]

I agree pay for a lawyer or two and one guy to travel around with the blimp. All you have to do is let us know where the blimp is going to be at.


And the meetups will be alerted.

[tremendoustie]

Woa... hold on there. Feel free to share your opinion on whether the salaries are fair, but don't lay false accusations on Trevor. He has never taken credit for Nov 5. I've heard him interviewed a dozen times, and every time he comes off as uncomfortable when the reporter asks "how'd you do it?", and he has to reiterate that it wasn't his idea, he just helped with the website, and it was everyone donating and spreading the word that made it happen, etc.

The reason he's become a center of attention is because people like having heroes, and people like human stories. That's hardly Trevor's fault. The way I judge situations like that (because they happen ALL the time), is how a person uses his new status - and Trevor has remained both productive and cooperative since. That tells me what I need to know.

Argue the details of the blimp project all you like, but don't slander a genuinely good and dedicated person like Trevor.

I agree that I havn't seen Trevor take credit. He should inform whoever wrote

# Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen and had orginal concept for a Ron Paul Blimp in mid-June. Trevor will conduct most interviews with the press.

* $1,000/week

at
http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php

That his description is not accurate.

Also, I'd encourage them to describe exactly what all these people will be doing full time for $1000 dollars a week plus living expenses, because last time I checked "Individual who got momentum for this project going and made arrangements with fellow Ron Paul supporter." Is not a job description, and "will conduct most interviews with the press." is not 40 hours a week. Funny, most people get interviewed for free.

And, let's consider this:

# Videographer 1 - Videographer 1 will be in the blimp filming the passengers or in other aircraft taping the blimp with the passengers in it. When not in the air they will also be taping another perspective.

* $1,000/week

# Videographer 2 - Videographer 2 will be on the ground filming all of the rallies and the aerial displays.

* $1,000/week

We need two full time videographers all year??!?! How much flipping video of the blimp do we need?!?! And I didn't realize you could get 52K plus living expenses sitting in a blimp filming, apparently I need to consider a career switch.

Of course, we all know that no one ever films or produces videos of Ron Paul events for free. I mean, who in their right mind would show up at a Ron Paul event or ride in a blimp, videotape it, and edit a video without getting paid thousands of dollars? *One moment, I'm told, yes, there are thousands of Paul videos made by volunteers for free. Apparently many are on some newfangled interweb place they call "you tube". Who knew.

# Bryce Henderson- Company Media Coordinator

* $1,000/week

Again, what exactly does this entail that hasn't already been covered? And is this realistically 40 hours a week?

# Jerry Collette - Paralegal and Manager

* $1,000/week

# Joe Amidon - Assistant Manager

* $1,000/week

Managers!! Just what we need to make sure that person sitting in the blimp making 52K doesn't have his lens cap on.

Webmaster/Web developer (added 12/02/2008 @ 8:10 MST)

* $1,000/week

Why is this ongoing full time? After the website is finished, what more needs to be done? Uploading pictures and video? Apparently our highly paid full time videographers can't do that.

Lastly we come to:

# Katherine

* Volunteer - Full Time - No expenses

Thank you so much Katherine. Someone gets it.

[driller80545]

I wouldn't take on the responsibility of a 350000.00 lease no matter what you paid me. I appreciate what these people are doing, it seems that they are covering every corner, and I think that $1000/wk is probably not near enough considering the loss of sleep and ulcers involved in the commitment!

[James R]

I agree with some salaries and disagree with others. Look at it on a case-by-case basis:
- Instead of paying $1,000/week each for two video people, pay $1,500 a month for various random video guys at whatever location the blimp is at. At many of the locations there would be someone willing to do this for free. That would be a massive and effective cut right there. We want the press to do most of the filming.
- There are plenty of webmasters who will do the website for free, and do a professional high-quality job at it.

That would cut the overhead expenses by quite a lot.

But I disagree on other items and think they are needed:
- Media coordinator: A well-spent investment if this person achieves local coverage at least once a week.
- Trevor Lymann: I expect him to ask for/take whatever he absolutely needs to cover his living expenses. If that ends up being 1,000/week, okay. Not sure if we really need Trevor, but if Elijah feels like he is needed then he has my weak support on that point.
- Elijah: He has quit his job and shown by his budget that he very well may need that much money. Also, he's the one guy thats most likely to get in trouble if something goes wrong. (FEC, accident, etc)
- Paralegal and assistant manager (who is part of legal team): Whether or not we'd get more money with a PAC is debatable. A lot of us would prefer a PAC but what they have set up seems to be reasonable as well.

[qwerty]

why aren´t the people behind this thing answering these questions...


The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php

Actually the 38.000 donors made it happen.....

:rolleyes:

[~River~]

First of all the blimp idea is not good for the following reasons;

1. for $350,000 the amount of people that could be reached with that money through radio spots, printed advertising or other means far outwieghs what could be reached with a blimp

2. If blimp advertising was truly effective then why don't we see 2000 blimps flying around advertising for other companies

I think that the offical campaign could find much better use for that type of money than could a team of 8 plus the hired crew for a blimp could ever do.

this is so obviously a scam to try and cash in on the Ron Paul phenomenon. If they wanted to fund a blimp for like 2 days to fly over Boston it would be a totally different story but to ask for salaries for 8 people to fly around is absolutely rediculous. why do we need 8 people to fly around in the blimp anyways? can't the hired crew handle that? can't those positions be manned by volunteers? the answer is YES. there are many Ron Paul supporters that would gladly give up a portion of their time to help.

I say donate to the official campaign and not to this rediculous waste of money! If they need a salary then go find a job like the rest of us and volunteer to the cause.

they formed a LLC for profit to operate this blimp ,wtf?

[Bodhi]

I wouldn't take on the responsibility of a 350000.00 lease no matter what you paid me. I appreciate what these people are doing, it seems that they are covering every corner, and I think that $1000/wk is probably not near enough considering the loss of sleep and ulcers involved in the commitment!

Welcome to the forums driller80545. While I respect your opinion, I do disagree. This is a grassroots effort not a for profit effort. No one has to take on the responsibility for the lease other than the company that leases the blimp.

I thought the whole blimp idea was a bit shadey from the beggining, but I would have donated $50 bucks or so to it just because is would be cool to see a blimp with Ron Paul's name on it. However, this appears to be a for profit endeavor. I know there are plenty of people who would happily work on the blimp for free and to pay someone to support Ron Paul is absurd.

In my opinion, if you need to be paid to support Ron Paul, then he is probably not the candidate for you. Tens of thousands of people give up their free time every day because they understand the message and believe in RP. They never ask for money or even a pat on the back.

If you want to be paid to support your candidate then go "work" for Hillary or Romney.

[Pete Kay]

Woa... hold on there. Feel free to share your opinion on whether the salaries are fair, but don't lay false accusations on Trevor. He has never taken credit for Nov 5. I've heard him interviewed a dozen times, and every time he comes off as uncomfortable when the reporter asks "how'd you do it?", and he has to reiterate that it wasn't his idea, he just helped with the website, and it was everyone donating and spreading the word that made it happen, etc.

The reason he's become a center of attention is because people like having heroes, and people like human stories. That's hardly Trevor's fault. The way I judge situations like that (because they happen ALL the time), is how a person uses his new status - and Trevor has remained both productive and cooperative since. That tells me what I need to know.

Argue the details of the blimp project all you like, but don't slander a genuinely good and dedicated person like Trevor.

I have emailed dozens of news organizations pointing out that Trevor was not behind November 5th, the grassroots was. I never thought that Trevor was the one saying this, but right there on the blimp website it says: "Trevor Lyman, the man behind November 5th". Is he not involved in the blimp and its website? If he is so uninvolved in the project that a completely false statement like that would be made, then why does he deserve $1000 a week? I didn't slander him. He slandered himself.

News articles have continued to appear labeling Trevor as the mastermind behind the 5th and now they are saying he is behind December 16th. This is a huge slap in the face to the grassroots. He needs to speak out about and put a press release and make it official, because I am getting tired of hearing about how he is some master e-bundler. It's like a knife in the back of all the Ron Paul supporters that have dedicated s much of their own free time for this movement.

[tremendoustie]

Welcome to the forums driller80545. While I respect your opinion, I do disagree. This is a grassroots effort not a for profit effort. No one has to take on the responsibility for the lease other than the company that leases the blimp.

I thought the whole blimp idea was a bit shadey from the beggining, but I would have donated $50 bucks or so to it just because is would be cool to see a blimp with Ron Paul's name on it. However, this appears to be a for profit endeavor. I know there are plenty of people who would happily work on the blimp for free and to pay someone to support Ron Paul is absurd.

In my opinion, if you need to be paid to support Ron Paul, then he is probably not the candidate for you. Tens of thousands of people give up their free time every day because they understand the message and believe in RP. They never ask for money or even a pat on the back.

If you want to be paid to support your candidate then go "work" for Hillary or Romney.

Amen. How many people would love to be on a Ron Paul Airforce Official crew" for free. How many would make videos of rallies or riding in the blimp for free. How many would work on the website for free. How many would contact the press or screen press inquiries for free. I bet there is even a lawyer or two out there who might be willing to chip in some time. Maybe there should be one full time expense paid volunteer to coordinate everything, but this is ludicrous.

[PeacePlan]

First of all the blimp idea is not good for the following reasons;

1. for $350,000 the amount of people that could be reached with that money through radio spots, printed advertising or other means far outwieghs what could be reached with a blimp

2. If blimp advertising was truly effective then why don't we see 2000 blimps flying around advertising for other companies

I think that the offical campaign could find much better use for that type of money than could a team of 8 plus the hired crew for a blimp could ever do.

this is so obviously a scam to try and cash in on the Ron Paul phenomenon. If they wanted to fund a blimp for like 2 days to fly over Boston it would be a totally different story but to ask for salaries for 8 people to fly around is absolutely rediculous. why do we need 8 people to fly around in the blimp anyways? can't the hired crew handle that? can't those positions be manned by volunteers? the answer is YES. there are many Ron Paul supporters that would gladly give up a portion of their time to help.

I say donate to the official campaign and not to this rediculous waste of money! If they need a salary then go find a job like the rest of us and volunteer to the cause.

they formed a LLC for profit to operate this blimp ,wtf?

When I saw it a couple of weeks ago it was promoted as a chance that you might get to ride in it if you donated. Now it looks like it will be full of people that are not donating but getting paid by the donors to ride around in it. They even get their lodging and meals.

Are the spots still open for donors to ride?

[Bodhi]

Amen. How many people would love to be on a Ron Paul Airforce Official crew" for free. How many would make videos of rallies or riding in the blimp for free. How many would work on the website for free. How many would contact the press or screen press inquiries for free. I bet there is even a lawyer or two out there who might be willing to chip in some time. Maybe there should be one full time expense paid volunteer to coordinate everything, but this is ludicrous.

Right on, there are countless people out there who would do all of these things for free and be glad that they are giving their time to support Ron Paul.

[Eric23]

Doesn't really seem like a grassroots effort to me anymore with all these salaries. I think my money would be better spent going to the campaign.

[Pete Kay]

Trevor uses every chance he gets to tell the media it was NOT HIS IDEA. It is not his fault if the news decides to LEAVE IT OUT!

It says so right on the blimp website that Trevor is the man behind November 5th. Was that the media lying right there? Give me a break. I had great respect for Trevor, but he has soiled his reputation with this blimp fiasco.

[DjLoTi]

Wow. There are *tons* of people who work their *** off, and I mean WORK their *** off for Ron Paul stuff, and get paid ZILTCH, ZERO, NADDA, NOTHING

What a wonderful life to fly around in a blimp, feeling like a king, living the bad-ass life in the spot light, and getting paid really nice $$$$ for it.

I've worked ridiculous amount of hours to get Ron Paul radio up, and I've probably literally had a net personal income from the entire 6 months I've been working on it of about $200. And I'm in the military, so I'm already working hard and bringing home nothing. I loved the blimp idea. I def. don't see the need for massive $$$$ for 'paid salaries'. I think that's quite a bit outlandish.

I still wasn't going to donate to the blimp one way or another. I don't make enough money. lol

[Pete Kay]

Wow. There are *tons* of people who work their *** off, and I mean WORK their *** off for Ron Paul stuff, and get paid ZILTCH, ZERO, NADDA, NOTHING

What a wonderful life to fly around in a blimp, feeling like a king, living the bad-ass life in the spot light, and getting paid really nice $$$$ for it.

I've worked ridiculous amount of hours to get Ron Paul radio up, and I've probably literally had a net personal income from the entire 6 months I've been working on it of about $200. And I'm in the military, so I'm already working hard and bringing home nothing. I loved the blimp idea. I def. don't see the need for massive $$$$ for 'paid salaries'. I think that's quite a bit outlandish.

I still wasn't going to donate to the blimp one way or another. I don't make enough money. lol

Thanks for the work that you've done. We couldn't be succesful in this movement without people like you. I do my part, but I can't match the sacrifices that you and others make. We are in your debt.

[driller80545]

I hear about all these people who will do this blimp deal for free, but no one is doing it. If you can do it for free, do it. I will donate. But you are not doing it. You are only complaining about the people who are doing it. Frankly, I harbor much more respect for people who do things, rather than for people who can only criticize them for doing it. If all this massive advertising (which is sorely, sorely needed) can be done for free by the grass roots, then get it going. I need to know where to donate to this cause. Otherwise, I will donate to the people who are actually doing something. Thank you.

[DjLoTi]

The big payment for me is RP in the white house. That's *all* I care about. As long as RP gets in the white house I don't care if I walk away with nothing or a gazalion dollars, all the better. Who needs money when the country is going down the drain?

When people start caring about money, *that's* when they forget what they should be caring about, and that's freedom for the world. No money can buy that.

I know a bunch of 'blimp donors' are not maxed out, so I def. think the whole thing is maybe not a good idea, esp. considering all these circumstances.

[vodalian]

Wow. There are *tons* of people who work their *** off, and I mean WORK their *** off for Ron Paul stuff, and get paid ZILTCH, ZERO, NADDA, NOTHING

What a wonderful life to fly around in a blimp, feeling like a king, living the bad-ass life in the spot light, and getting paid really nice $$$$ for it.

I've worked ridiculous amount of hours to get Ron Paul radio up, and I've probably literally had a net personal income from the entire 6 months I've been working on it of about $200. And I'm in the military, so I'm already working hard and bringing home nothing. I loved the blimp idea. I def. don't see the need for massive $$$$ for 'paid salaries'. I think that's quite a bit outlandish.

I still wasn't going to donate to the blimp one way or another. I don't make enough money. lol

A bit outlandish is an understatement. So many people work their asses off every day for nothing in return in the name of activism. I'm really starting to question these supposed 'Ron Paul supporters', especially the ones who are trying to convince people to waste their money on everything BUT Ron Paul. It seems to me that this may be an attempt by certain people to sway his campaign.

The irony in all of this is the man that this is supposedly all for is an ECONOMIST and a FINANCIAL CONSERVATIVE.

[Bodhi]

I hear about all these people who will do this blimp deal for free, but no one is doing it. If you can do it for free, do it. I will donate. But you are not doing it. You are only complaining about the people who are doing it. Frankly, I harbor much more respect for people who do things, rather than for people who can only criticize them for doing it. If all this massive advertising (which is sorely, sorely needed) can be done for free by the grass roots, then get it going. I need to know where to donate to this cause. Otherwise, I will donate to the people who are actually doing something. Thank you.

I see your point. We can make it real simple. Ask for people to fill the "paid" positions on the blimp for free, my guess is there will be many takers. I can only speak for myself, but I would trust a Ron Paul supporter who is not being paid over a Ron Paul "supporter" that asks for a salary.

[vodalian]

I hear about all these people who will do this blimp deal for free, but no one is doing it. If you can do it for free, do it. I will donate. But you are not doing it. You are only complaining about the people who are doing it. Frankly, I harbor much more respect for people who do things, rather than for people who can only criticize them for doing it. If all this massive advertising (which is sorely, sorely needed) can be done for free by the grass roots, then get it going. I need to know where to donate to this cause. Otherwise, I will donate to the people who are actually doing something. Thank you.

Great, then I expect you will be also paying all of the thousands of other activists who get off of their asses every day for Ron Paul and ask for nothing in return?

It's strange how you people act like THERE MUST BE A BLIMP?!!!1111 Like Ron Paul won't be elected unless we pay some dudes to go on vacation in a blimp... Right...

Just imagine if this wasted money was put into activism, organizing rallies, printing up information.. Etc, but I guess 'certain people' don't want that.

[DjLoTi]

I'm really starting to question these supposed 'Ron Paul supporters'

Yeah, I must admit I know first hand what you're saying. People have egos and pockets to fill. It's real America, unfortunately. This movement is really based on an unselfish principle, but at the same time I know people who don't have a job because the economy sucks and have kids to feed, and are skilled people.

That doesn't seem to be the case for this blimp project. I've got to say, that yes it's hard work and takes time to plan big things, and yeah personally I think some kickback is deserved if someone puts in really hard work, but $1,000 a week per 'video photographer' for 2 of them? pleasee... that's nuts.

I mean if they have to quit their job and literally can't survive with bills and living, then yeah, they deserve it... if for no other reason then there's no other way people can quit their job.

but making grassroots events into a profitable business is risky business. Might sound funny since RPR went for-profit since we made over 1,000$ in our 6 months of existence and we had to per FEC laws, but becoming a company was the last thing on my mind.

#1, and always #1, should be Ron Paul, the movement, the message, the prosperity.

Unfortunately some people let fame get to their heads and it turns into "omg me me me me me!!!"

I've been around here for a long time, doing a lot of things, one of the first people on this forum. I really recommend against funding this blimp project, unless you're maxed out and you have no problem paying 1,000$ a week to 2 video photographers.

[PeacePlan]

I see your point. We can make it real simple. Ask for people to fill the "paid" positions on the blimp for free, my guess is there will be many takers. I can only speak for myself, but I would trust a Ron Paul supporter who is not being paid over a Ron Paul "supporter" that asks for a salary.

They will not go for this - they have set up a business. We all know you could get volunteers but I can tell ya it ain't gonna happen. If they don't get paid now they will stop working on it and let it fail IMO

They will not continue the work without getting a check.

[DjLoTi]

And also just even enough that the concept would fly ( pardon the pun ) is a caution flag enough. The people who think $1,000 for a video photographer per week is fair are the same people who are running this entire project. Caution flag!

[vodalian]

I've been around here for a long time, doing a lot of things, one of the first people on this forum. I really recommend against funding this blimp project, unless you're maxed out and you have no problem paying 1,000$ a week to 2 video photographers.

Why do people have this idea that if you're maxed out, you have to start throwing your money away?


Hey all maxed people, send your money this way!!!


Seriously though, if these people actually gave a damn about the campaign, they would be spending the money on various activism tools, or spending it on organizing rallies, not paying people's salaries to do something everyone else does for free.. Jeez, it's like this is a foreign idea or something. We have plenty of activists, we don't need to pay for more just because they refuse to work for free like everyone else.

[Bodhi]

They will not go for this - they have set up a business. We all know you could get volunteers but I can tell ya it ain't gonna happen. If they don't get paid now they will stop working on it and let it fail IMO

They will not continue the work without getting a check.

If they won't continue work without getting a check then they are obviously in it for the money and not for Ron Paul.

[tremendoustie]

Some of these positions can just be eliminated without even asking for volunteers. Have a rally, invite people in the blimp, videos will happen. For the rest, we need a clear breakdown of exactly what each person listed would be doing for 40 hours a week, and then see what positions can be filled by volunteers. Even if it turns out there is a solid 40+ hours of hard work a week for a particular position, that cannot be filled by a volunteer/multiple volunteers, the outlandish salaries must go. Let's make this a project everyone can get behind. If the organizers are really intent upon helping Ron Paul rather than getting cushy jobs, they'll welcome the process. We shall see.

[DjLoTi]

Yeah if you're maxed out I personally still think it's a bad idea, but I don't think anybody who's not maxed out should fund this at all. If you are maxed, and you think it's reasonable, I'm not going to tell anybody what to do with their money. I think I tried hard enough anyway to imply I think it's a really bad idea. lol

[DjLoTi]

Why don't we find the blimp company they're using, figure out the costs exactly, and then see how cheap we can pull this off?

From what I remember, we pay them 250K and they fly the blimp. That's it. We pay, they fly. 250K for a month. idk HOW it got so expensive, now double the money. lol. wow

[PeacePlan]

If they won't continue work without getting a check then they are obviously in it for the money and not for Ron Paul.

Thats my guess - I could and hope I am wrong.. Read their website looks to me like they have set up a business for advertising and it is for profit.

[Alan84]

As it seems what most people are thinking, I would like the expenses for workers to be cut drastically along with other things. If this doesn't happen, I'm sure many people will not donate. I know I won't.

[DjLoTi]

Being for profit isn't the problem. That's just a 'label'. It's what they're asking to make the blimp fly.

They've raised 43K already, which I'd just like to say is more then what I've made in my 2 and 1/2 years being in the military.

They want to fly a month, which is 4 weeks. That 43K has only paid the salaries to the staff, paid for the cameras, and paid for the 'fleece jerseys'.

We haven't even gotten to the full cost of the blimp. lol. All of a sudden, the main point of this is lost. And, like they say, the money is non-refundable. I hope this works out for you folks.

[tremendoustie]

Why don't we find the blimp company they're using, figure out the costs exactly, and then see how cheap we can pull this off?

From what I remember, we pay them 250K and they fly the blimp. That's it. We pay, they fly. 250K for a month. idk HOW it got so expensive, now double the money. lol. wow

I think, if they're not willing to trim this down to something like one or two expense paid volunteers and a bunch of pure volunteers, then this is exactly what we should do. Someone should set up a separate site, and we can all donate to that. Pay the company 250K, they can fly it around, and be done with it. I would donate $100, for starters. I'm sure we would also get lots of volunteers to do some of the functions they described at $1000 a week.

[~River~]

The fact that they have formed a company to advertise Ron Paul and are using these forums to do it is disgusting. I'm absolutely sickened by what I see.

I am sorry but these are not our friends here, they are only looking to make a profit.

The whole thing goes against what we all believe in as RP supporters. wasteful spending, and bueracracy.

[LibertyEagle]

Skiingff,

All I have to say is, Thank You for writing this!!! Two thumbs up.

[Midnight77]

Looks like this project is going down faster than the WTC on 9/11.

This is what happens when people get opportunistic. That was not the goal of this whole thing. And now our Grassroots is being divided because of this.

If we would have never started this blimp idea, this wouldn't have been an issue for anyone. And we would still be a unit.

Trevor would have no problem getting a good job with what he did on the 5th on his resume.

But as the story always goes, people see an opportunity, so it's only natural to want to profit off of it.

Trevor & Elijah, I don't know what to say. You guys are great, and none of us want to see you guys lose anything from starting this project, but this thing is going down fast. We only have $43,000 raised and you can see that public opinion isn't looking good right now in making this a business opportunity. I certainly don't mean to criticize, but maybe you guys should have looked into this and researched opinion on turning this into a business before diving right in with it, selling homes, etc.

My best advice is if you still want to go into business together, by all means. But let's end this project if this is the direction it's going to go in. You guys are good people. None of us want to see you take a fall over this.

[OferNave]

First of all the blimp idea is not good for the following reasons;

1. for $350,000 the amount of people that could be reached with that money through radio spots, printed advertising or other means far outwieghs what could be reached with a blimp

I seriously doubt that. Think about this - the campaign estimated they got $5-10M of free publicity from the Nov 5 press coverage. A blimp flying everywhere for a few months is equally as press-worthy, if not more so - especially with all the local press covering it in each location it goes to. It would impossible for this to not pay itself off ten times over. Afterall, TV and radio coverage for New Hampshire alone - one of the smallest states in the nation - has cost well over a million dollars. A blimp is cheap by comparison, and gets us coverage everywhere.


2. If blimp advertising was truly effective then why don't we see 2000 blimps flying around advertising for other companies

Well, you don't see 2000 blimps because there are diminishing returns after the first one, which has novelty value. As for why nobody has even one blimp - lack of vision. We are innovating, like we've been doing all year. Reinventing politics. Everything has a first time, like Ross Perot's infomercials. This will be the first time for a blimp.

[DjLoTi]

Yeah but we got to be realistic. 43K has already been donated. We don't have a lot of time to get this going. I think the Ron Paul supporters really have to ask themselves if this is gonna work.

If the guys running this thing say 'my way or no way', that's the way it's gonna be. If someone comes along and says ' yo i can do it way better ', first they better have serious cred, and second we better figure this out quick.

I can say one thing for sure is that I'm very glad I'm not involved with this project. I've been involved with a lot of projects, notably RPR but also the Ron Paul riders and big rallies and other things.

it's either going to happen or it's not going to happen, and it's either going to be on their terms or it's not going to be on their terms, but the people involved need to figure it out, I just hope I can help people make the right decision, because we're talking serious money .. I mean, like I said, I haven't made that much money in my entire 2 and 1/2 years in the military, and they're not even fully covering costs to run the LITTLE stuff, they haven't even started chipping away at the main cost of the blimp itself.

[Dan Klaus]

Some of these positions can just be eliminated without even asking for volunteers. Have a rally, invite people in the blimp, videos will happen. For the rest, we need a clear breakdown of exactly what each person listed would be doing for 40 hours a week, and then see what positions can be filled by volunteers. Even if it turns out there is a solid 40+ hours of hard work a week for a particular position, that cannot be filled by a volunteer/multiple volunteers, the outlandish salaries must go. Let's make this a project everyone can get behind. If the organizers are really intent upon helping Ron Paul rather than getting cushy jobs, they'll welcome the process. We shall see.


QFT! Wow - cut half the staff and expenses and get this thing flying...I won't donate though with things as they are....

[tremendoustie]

I guess it all depends on how badly we want this.

Personally, it sounds like this plan will keep the government out of it as much as possible. If we formed a PAC, any money donated to the blimp fund would basically be money which could never be donated to RP's campaign. In the long run, paying the salary of a few people might be a small price to pay. However, I THINK SOME DRASTIC CHANGES NEED TO BE MET BEFORE MOST PEOPLE WILL JUMP ON BOARD WITH THIS PLAN.

The staff ABSOLUTELY MUST be cut by several people. I don't think they really need all those people. Here's how I see it...


Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen and had orginal concept for a Ron Paul Blimp in mid-June. Trevor will conduct most interviews with the press.
$1,000/week

I can see the need to have ONE PERSON who would be in charge of talking with the media and doing interviews and organizing when to bring people aboard and drop them off. Yes, one person can easily do all of this.

Elijah Lynn - Individual who got momentum for this project going and made arrangements with fellow Ron Paul supporter.
$1,000/week

OK, but what is his job??? I don't care what he did in the past. What are we going to PAY HIM to do??? Seems to me he doesn't even have a job, so this position is easily cut.

Jerry Collette - Paralegal and Manager
$1,000/week

Managing what? The pilots are flying it. A route and timetable can be set up easily, by just about anyone. What is there to manage? And we already have 2 high-priced lawyers. Cut this person.

Videographer 1 - Videographer 1 will be in the blimp filming the passengers or in other aircraft taping the blimp with the passengers in it. When not in the air they will also be taping another perspective.
$1,000/week
Videographer 2 - Videographer 2 will be on the ground filming all of the rallies and the aerial displays.
$1,000/week

I don't think we need 2 videographers. Do you have any idea how many people have camcorders and an internet connection in this country? Trust me, once this blimp starts flying over major cities, there will be hundreds, if not thousands of youtube videos of it. Ron Paul supporters ALREADY film all of the rallies anyway. We don't need anybody on the ground filming the blimp. As for the airborne videographer... well, doesn't the media bring their own cameras anyway? It's not like the MSM is going to use footage that we shoot. They'll just shoot their own footage of the blimp. The price is too high for some neat little clips of the inside of the blimp. We don't need it, we can't afford it. Both videographers are cut (along with the price of the camcorders, laptops and other video equipment.

Bryce Henderson- Company Media Coordinator
$1,000/week

Again, I thought Trevor was going to be talking with the media. Cut this person.

Joe Amidon - Assistant Manager
$1,000/week

If we don't need a manager, we sure as hell don't need an assistant manager. Cut.

Joel Lemieux - On Location Media Coordinator
Volunteer - Expenses paid

Volunteer? Sounds great!

Katherine
Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses

Volunteer? Sounds great!

Webmaster/Web developer (added 12/02/2008 @ 8:10 MST)
$1,000/week

Are you telling me there isn't a tech-savvy person somewhere on these forums who would be willing to watch after the blimp website for free? Seriously, how much updating does it require? This can easily be a volunteer-based position, and it can involve the help from multiple people to lighten the load. Cut this position.



There, THIS IS HOW RON PAUL WOULD RUN THIS PROJECT, and therefore, as Ron Paul supporters, this is how we should run it.

What's wrong with having the pilots fly the blimp and letting a few supporters (people who donated a lot) ride for a bit, but otherwise allow the blimp to speak for itself? I can understand having one person onboard to coordinate stuff and talk with the media, and if Trevor wants to do it and receive a weekly salary for his troubles, I'd let him. But this project has quickly become bloated. The important message is on the outside of the blimp, not the people within who don't necessarily speak for the campaign or for the grassroots movement. Clearly, we don't need to have so many people involved. Keeping the staff down to a minimum would allow for much more flying time.




ATTN: TREVOR or anyone else involved with the organization of the blimp idea...

You have very little time (only a few days) to make these changes, or it will become too late. People are upset by what is taking place and I urge you to listen. I believe the plan I've set in place would work far greater than the current plan because my plan would piss off less people and they would be more willing to donate. The goal here is to put a f*cking Ron Paul blimp in the air, not to start a company with a full staff with full-time paying jobs. It was a good idea to avoid setting up a PAC and doing all of this privately, but this project has gone way overboard. You don't need 99% of the things you've listed in order to reach this goal.

I see that you have several volunteers on your staff. That is admirable, and I wish there was more of this taking place. All you had to do was ask for volunteers on these forums and your inbox would have been flooded with people who would actually be willing to take leave from their jobs for a week or two at a time and go help out with the blimp project. It could have been a truly grassroots effort, and it still can be!!!

PLEASE, I BEG OF YOU, listen to these words before it is too late!!!

I approve of this message. Please do this for the good of the campaign. I suppose we will see now where priorities are at.

[LibertyEagle]

When this whole thing began, it was to put a blimp in the air for a short period of time. Like a month. Now, it has blossomed into a full year endeavor with a company springing up with more than a few full-time employees. Someone has gotten carried away.

If we do not do well in the primaries through Super Tuesday, we aren't going to need to fund a blimp. Much less pay the salaries and living expenses of a bunch of people so that they can either ride around in a blimp all day, or any of the other support people. If this thing is ever going to get off the ground, it seems to me that we need to return to the basics. Putting a blimp in the air for a month and seeing if it is worth it. We don't need to fund a new company for that to happen. What happened to the idea of RENTING a blimp for a month?

[DjLoTi]

This will be the first time for a blimp.

I think the blimp is a wonderful idea! But it's now less of an 'idea' and more of a 'business market' for some individuals. The Nov. 5th thing was really just an idea. Ron Paul radio and Ron Paul forums was an idea, Ron Paul riders was an idea, and then we did it! We didn't require anything up front or some kind of $1,000 a week salary.

Mike of the Ron Paul riders is riding a bicycle from Los Angeles to Washington DC. He's never ridden a bike cross country before. He's on the streets, talking to people, every single town. Donate to that guy. I think he deserves it a little more then Trevor and these other 'video photographers' and 'web designers' do, personally.

[Indy Vidual]

Volunteers are vital, so are profit-makers.
Maybe allowing people to make money of the Revolution is a great way to make it grow. :)

```
Many people are finally ready for real change.

http://www.1life1time.com/images/rp.jpg

Congressman Ron Paul: Archives (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html) (Dr. Ron Paul in his own words and brilliant writings)

[LibertyEagle]

Why don't we find the blimp company they're using, figure out the costs exactly, and then see how cheap we can pull this off?

From what I remember, we pay them 250K and they fly the blimp. That's it. We pay, they fly. 250K for a month. idk HOW it got so expensive, now double the money. lol. wow

Good idea.

[~River~]

I seriously doubt that. Think about this - the campaign estimated they got $5-10M of free publicity from the Nov 5 press coverage. A blimp flying everywhere for a few months is equally as press-worthy, if not more so - especially with all the local press covering it in each location it goes to. It would impossible for this to not pay itself off ten times over. Afterall, TV and radio coverage for New Hampshire alone - one of the smallest states in the nation - has cost well over a million dollars. A blimp is cheap by comparison, and gets us coverage everywhere.



Well, you don't see 2000 blimps because there are diminishing returns after the first one, which has novelty value. As for why nobody has even one blimp - lack of vision. We are innovating, like we've been doing all year. Reinventing politics. Everything has a first time, like Ross Perot's infomercials. This will be the first time for a blimp.

IF you truly think that the blimp is the way to go and you believe it will create a massive media event that is great but for them to form a for profit company to do it is scandaliss. The fact is that what you are talking about is a $350,000 gamble that the media will cover it and make headlines out of it. '

You compare this to Nov.5th and the fact is that Nov 5th was an incredible day where we broke records for fundrasing and to be truthful the media still downplays it and still did not give the coverage it deserved. So, tell me what makes you think that a $350,000 blimp plus salaries for 8 people and living expenses is going to create a whirlwind of media coverage above what happened on Nov 5th?

You mention diminishing returns after the first blimp and I totally agree with you and I think it plays right into the point I made that we don't need a blimp flying around the country over and over. I would fully support a volunteer effort where the only cost is the blimp itself if it were to fly over a few events like the 16th of December in Boston. They don't even know if they can fly over the SuperBowl and it is a far stretch for them to say it is a First Amendment thing.

The real point is that if you all believe that is a good way to spend your money it is your choice but for me I am not going to chip in to pay for salaries for 8 people to joyride. They have no place making a profit from this.

[Ozwest]

Sounds like a bunch of sour grapes!

A thousand dollars a week to put your ass on the line, quit your job for maybe one or two months, and maybe lose it.

Stop being a bunch of judgemental naysayers.

If I was going to pull off a scam, I certainly wouldn't do it in front of the media and a bunch of people who believe in the second Amendment.

No grifters here.

[tomaO2]

So much for this being a grassroot, vounteer effort.

This is completely unlike anything, ANYONE else is doing to support Ron Paul and I don't mean that in a good way.

It's morphed into something unrecognizable from what enyone here in the forums could have thought. Anything the organizers could have thought.

The organisers really should have stepped back and rethought everything when they realised what they had to do. I mean... Lawyers, 1000$ dollar saleries for positions no one thought of, banner costs (25k? It was free before). I can't believe what has happened here. I know the organisers wanted this to happen but I can't help but feel that if they had bothered to step back and look at the project again I really don't think they would have continued.

The costs are balloning. The structure is totally different. I'm very uneasy about this project. After all the morphing, it doesn't feel like something I would want to be a part of anymore.

[Ozwest]

Purple writing makes me uneasy.

[tremendoustie]

Sounds like a bunch of sour grapes!

A thousand dollars a week to put your ass on the line, quit your job for maybe one or two months, and maybe lose it.

Stop being a bunch of judgemental naysayers.

If I was going to pull off a scam, I certainly wouldn't do it in front of the media and a bunch of people who believe in the second Amendment.

No grifters here.

That's the point. These people should not be quitting their jobs. I don't think it's a scam, I don't think they're going to take the money and run, I just think it's a wasteful boondoggle. We need one paid position max, to fly around in the blimp and organize volunteer efforts. The current plan is unbelievably wasteful.

[OferNave]

That's the point. These people should not be quitting their jobs. I don't think it's a scam, I don't think they're going to take the money and run, I just think it's a wasteful boondoggle. We need one paid position max, to fly around in the blimp and organize volunteer efforts. The current plan is unbelievably wasteful.

Yes, let's be clear about that. No one, and I mean NO ONE, would be stupid enough to take the money and run from a group of people 100k strong that call themselves a revolution and are likely well armed. :)

[Ozwest]

How is leaving a good job, under the scrutiny of thousands of Libertarian X's, for diddly squat monies, considered easy street theft?

Stop mouthing off, and consider the alternatives.

[Bodhi]

That's the point. These people should not be quitting their jobs. I don't think it's a scam, I don't think they're going to take the money and run, I just think it's a wasteful boondoggle. We need one paid position max, to fly around in the blimp and organize volunteer efforts. The current plan is unbelievably wasteful.

I don't think we even need one paid position for this. There are a ton of people out there that would do it for free.

People trying to make money off of Ron Paul digust me beyond belief.

If they want to be paid for their efforts go "work" for Hillary or Romney.

[Drknows]

That's the point. These people should not be quitting their jobs. I don't think it's a scam, I don't think they're going to take the money and run, I just think it's a wasteful boondoggle. We need one paid position max, to fly around in the blimp and organize volunteer efforts. The current plan is unbelievably wasteful.

+1000

Here's a thread to ask questions.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=46258

.

[rfbz]

So they've raised 43K so far. According to ronpaulbimp.com, $50,000 gets 90 hours (and this cost is probably inflated to include all the paid staff). Take away all these paid positions and just get this thing up there now, and could probably be up a good 7 days or more with the funds they have. If they were to do this, we could see the results and observe how effective it is without spending more money.

[leonster]

Sounds like a bunch of sour grapes!

A thousand dollars a week to put your ass on the line, quit your job for maybe one or two months, and maybe lose it.

Stop being a bunch of judgemental naysayers.

If I was going to pull off a scam, I certainly wouldn't do it in front of the media and a bunch of people who believe in the second Amendment.

No grifters here.


I LOVE the idea of the blimp, and several times in the past few weeks have defended it from naysayers.

Yet to me... it's NOT the fact that it's a company--that's ok.

It's the fact that we don't NEED a huge staff for the blimp. As someone else said, having a huge blimp wandering around in the sky speaks for itself. I understand the need for legal counsel, and I could understand ONE paid position to work on this full-time, perhaps... but everything else could be volunteers.

Put out the call to the board... people will be willing to do all of these positions for FREE.

[Pete Kay]

All this arguing is pointless. This blimp project has failed. Trevor and his buddies saw the money rolling in and got carried away. Now no one is going to support this thing. It doesn't matter what happens now. Trust has been destroyed and they can't win it back. It's a shame. It was a great idea. Too bad they got greedy.

[Ozwest]

Obviously we have a bunch of people who have never owned or run a business.

Ya gotta crawl before you can walk.

From my experience, in a short time these guys have done a good job of covering the bases.

Some of you know stuff all.

[Andrew76]

So everyone in this main forum, which likely receives 90+% of the site traffic can be informed... can we please leave this post here?

$52,000 per year salaries will be paid to 8 blimp staff. That's $416,000 per year in salaries alone. On top of that; all food, room & board, and airfare expenses incurred by staff will be paid for by "donation" money.

Source: http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php

In comparison, let's take U.S. Soldiers, who get most of their living expenses paid for just like the blimp staff. But they only start out at $18,000 per year, not $52,000.

Talk about big government. Sheesh.

Blimp staff: getting paid 3x as much to do "work" 1,000x easier:
Fly around in a blimp all day.

Not on my dime.

EDIT: For the record, I don't necessarily think the idea itself is bad. I do, however, take issue with people trying to profit BIGTIME from the grassroots. They get all their living expenses paid for, + airfare etc., and still want 52k? This is pure greed... I say cut the salaries in half.

Nice one. Here's a thought... since no one's forcing you to pay for this.... ...

don't.

Whew! Solved that one real fast.

If you don't want to support this, then don't send them money. How is this even an issue?

[tremendoustie]

How is leaving a good job, under the scrutiny of thousands of Libertarian X's, for diddly squat monies, considered easy street theft?

Stop mouthing off, and consider the alternatives.

The alternative is a project run without ludicrous amounts of waste. I don't want the project to end, and I'm hoping the organizers return this to something everyone can get behind. My purpose is not to dump on them, it is for reform. Most of these positions are completely unnecessary, and there absolutely would be many people willing to fulfill the remaining functions without getting paid, or with only expenses covered. It is disturbing that the initial reaction was to create a slew of $75000 positions without considering what the grassroots could do for free. We might even be able to get some grassroots legal help. One person to coordinate efforts, with living expenses paid, is all we need. At least describe what the purpose of each position is, and try to get volunteers first!

[leonster]

Nice one. Here's a thought... since no one's forcing you to pay for this.... ...

don't.

Whew! Solved that one real fast.

If you don't want to support this, then don't send them money. How is this even an issue?

For me personally, I really care that we get a blimp up and start getting the attention I am sure it will bring.

But if we're going to do that... we need support. And many people are NOT supporting it right now. I've put in double my (small) pledge, but we need MANY more people to do so, and to get there, I think the blimp needs to return to a grassroots feel.

I don't want a slick, packaged product. I want people to look up in the sky and see the blimp, wonder about it, then later on the news find out it was just a bunch of grassroots people, that cared enough to put a blimp up in the sky for their guy. Underdog stories make for better TV than a professionally-marketed blimp would... especially on local TV.

[mkrfctr]

Ya too bad the blimp is not filled with hydrogen - I hope this whole thing goes down in flames - just to spite those behind it and their pompous attitudes.

+1 to what Second_Tier_My_Ass said - unbelievable the amount of staffing bloat this thing has accrued so quickly.

[tremendoustie]

All this arguing is pointless. This blimp project has failed. Trevor and his buddies saw the money rolling in and got carried away. Now no one is going to support this thing. It doesn't matter what happens now. Trust has been destroyed and they can't win it back. It's a shame. It was a great idea. Too bad they got greedy.

No! We can make this happen. The organizers need to come up with a plan that's mostly volunteer based, and I for one would jump right back on board, and donate my $100 pledge. One semi-paid position, maaayybee legal council, and a bunch of volunteers. It's a great idea, but it should not be run like a first class federal government beuracracy.

[Ozwest]

The blimp will be off the ground for one or two months.

Stop extrapolating ridiculous camparisons to snipers in Iraq.

Be rest assured, the business plan that has been set forth in a limited time-scale, is not amateur and ill-conceived.

These guys are doing their best. Trump would be proud.

[OferNave]

Hey - a blimp project representative has started a thread, and is answering all questions:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=46258

[Pete Kay]

Nice one. Here's a thought... since no one's forcing you to pay for this.... ...

don't.

Whew! Solved that one real fast.

If you don't want to support this, then don't send them money. How is this even an issue?

Oh don't worry. I won't. Most of us won't. Look at the pledges and the actual money donated so far. People aren't supporting this. End of story.

[Bodhi]

Oh don't worry. I won't. Most of us won't. Look at the pledges and the actual money donated so far. People aren't supporting this. End of story.

I just hope the people that donated get their money back. It was a crazy idea that actually might have worked if it was not for greed.

[Pete Kay]

I just hope the people that donated get their money back. It was a crazy idea that actually might have worked if it was not for greed.

I know. It sucks. All that money should have went to Ron Paul's campaign. He actually knows how to spend it properly. At least people didn't send in $350k like they had pledged. I'm glad that at the very least, the blimp site was open about it's extravagant expenditures. That way people could easily see what a farce this is.

[eloquensanity]

1k dollars a week? you have got to be kidding us...

# Katherine

* Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses

Now that's something I can support. None of us who spend our time out there canvassing and talking with potential supporters do it for a salary. We do it because we are on a mission to help get Dr. Paul's message out there. We volunteer our time and energy for this great cause and we don't ask for anything in return. Shame on those trying to profit from this collaborative effort. I can't support the blimp idea in its current state... it feels tainted.

Also what about the people who have uprooted their families to work in NH till the primaries. One guy gave up his Google job to volunteer. No one is paying them a salary.

I guess people will support it financially if they want to but I think I will help support the NH folks so they have food and supplies, they are working their butts off in the cold.

[usmcZ]

I know. It sucks. All that money should have went to Ron Paul's campaign. He actually knows how to spend it properly. At least people didn't send in $350k like they had pledged. I'm glad that at the very least, the blimp site was open about it's extravagant expenditures. That way people could easily see what a farce this is.


I don't understand why you are trying to destroy the efforts of others so vehemently? I can see maybe bringing some information to the light of the general browser on the forum, but you keep denouncing them as if they are supporting Guliani or something.

You've made your point, nice, why not let it die? People that think it is a good idea can donate, those that don't, won't. What they are doing definitely takes some effort and time, by far, and I believe it is a good idea, since it will help bring more attention to Dr. Paul.

[derekjohnson]

So everyone in this main forum, which likely receives 90+% of the site traffic can be informed... can we please leave this post here?

$52,000 per year salaries will be paid to 8 blimp staff. That's $416,000 per year in salaries alone. On top of that; all food, room & board, and airfare expenses incurred by staff will be paid for by "donation" money.

Source: http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php

In comparison, let's take U.S. Soldiers, who get most of their living expenses paid for just like the blimp staff. But they only start out at $18,000 per year, not $52,000.

Talk about big government. Sheesh.

Blimp staff: getting paid 3x as much to do "work" 1,000x easier:
Fly around in a blimp all day.

Not on my dime.

EDIT: For the record, I don't necessarily think the idea itself is bad. I do, however, take issue with people trying to profit BIGTIME from the grassroots. They get all their living expenses paid for, + airfare etc., and still want 52k? This is pure greed... I say cut the salaries in half.

Is this going to delay the blimp getting in the air? If so, maybe they should focus on the first 30 days and worry about salaries and a year long project after the tea party and Iowa. The Blimp needs to be in the air ASAP.

[~River~]

according to poll roughly 65% of us think salaries are exessive

[Bodhi]

We should really focus on raising money for people to ride around in a blimp and loose focus on getting delegates. That way I am sure we will win the nomination. Let's pay them lots of money to ride around in that blimp!!!!

[BlueGecko]

Check out the questions thread

But my main peeve is why not CALL FOR QUALIFIED VOLUNTEERS before you hire staff at least check

Many people would be proud to say in 10 years before Ron Paul became president, I took a unpaid leave from work and helped coordinate/ film/ ect. the now famous Air Force Ron since I was a professional cameraman and wanted to help

[ggibson1]

I HONORED my pledge... so should all of YOU...

Apparently many Paul supporters only want socialism...

Amazing. They only believe in Paul as long as no capitalism is involved!!


Freaking amazing...

HOLD on! I got a solution... lets round up as many college students and unemployed people that know NOTHING about doing this sort of thing and let them try doing this... that way I can feel all good about how no money was used to fund the expenses of living for these people...

Amazing...

[tremendoustie]

If I am going to fund what is apparently a private company to promote RP, would it not be reasonable for me to require that it be proven the money will not be wasted? The current staffing plan looks like a complete boondoggle to me.

This is capitalism at work: They provide a god awful staffing plan, I say no way in heck until it's cleaned up and wages are reasonable, if they do it, they get my money. Satisfying the customer (me) in this case means you don't pay $2000 a week for full time videographers when videos will be made anyway for free, twice the normal salary for a webmaster, two managers doing goodness knows what, a huge legal team, and tons of money for other positions volunteers would do just fine at. I have no problem with one reasonably paid position at least, but for each position that will not be cut there needs to be a clear business case, an explanation of why volunteers will not work for that position, and a commensurate salary to the (clearly defined) duties performed. I want this to happen, because I think this is overall a terrific project. I also thank and salute those who have put a lot of effort and time into this.

[Birdlady]

I read up to page 8, but here is what I get from most of the posts:
"I am jealous because I spent time helping to RP elected and I didn't get paid" WAH!! "If I didn't get paid, then NO ONE should". WAH!


There are a lot of people on this board who are afraid of those who make money from selling RP shirts, bumper stickers, signs, etc. Or those taking a cut from an ebay auction or garage sale. There's the general concensus here that you can't make money while supporting RP. It's unAmerican or selfish, greedy etc.

Yet when a rich man placed an ad in USA TODAY, it was spectacular. He was a hero. These boards lit up for a week after that ad was announced. Everyone was so happy!. YAY.

You can't have it both ways.
Either you allow people to make money in whatever way you wish or you don't get these big ideas becoming a reality.

It was your choice to give your time to RP for free. Do not take your frustration and jealousy out on Trevor and everyone else on this project. They are asking for money and if you do not support the money, then don't donate rather than slandering and name calling like we are in 4th grade again.

This type of in-fighting is what hurts us. Every day I see something like this brewing on these boards. Face it, you just love to stir drama!

[speciallyblend]

there is no greed here,maybe everyone needs to check airline salarys etc,this is minimal,

trevor and elijah you have my 25 bucks and ill try to donate more.everyone of you who are naysayers,need to quit your jobs and go help the blimp then, instead of demanding this or bitching about things.
this project is on the up and up and anyone questioning this should do more research before talking out there a__.

its valid to have concerns,from where im sitting every concern has been addressed.

this idea can be an example on why HQ would never have an idea because so many would shoot the idea down,even at grassroots level we have bitching to deal with,but luckily most of it is pointless.
I SAY SUPPORT THE BLIMP IF YOU LIKE,if not come up with your own idea and fund it and stop posting crap on something your not donating to anyway geez,if your not donating to the project,then why are you spending your time bitching about it,go come up with your own idea and fund it,pretty simple,clear cut and dry;)

if you have a valid concern then post it and it will be addressed, i have faith in trevor and elijah anyone who doubts them,in my eyes most be a east coaster with no trust,but i understand if your an east coaster and dont trust people thats what usually happens on the east coast another factor to move west. I generally have trust in humans,maybe thats my problem,but its better to trust then to not trust anyone. people intrusted me to purchase radio ads with their donation,guess what?? i did use the money for radio ads. if you dont trust someone,,i would look within yourself,before bashing others for their ideas to promote Ron Paul.

Kenny Griffin

[leglock]

I don't think anyone is jealous towards Trevor.

I donated on November 5th because the GRASSROOTS spammed it on every RP related YouTube videos. I donated to show my support to Ron Paul because I want him as the next President, I'm sure that's why everyone donated on that day.

I wasn't at all aware of any V references when I made up my mind to donate that day. When I went to the "ThisNovember5th" website, I saw all the unnecessary V for Vendetta, the dark colors, the blood, and all these things that could cause unnecessary media attention. I urged Trevor to change it. In fact, a lot of people on the forums were already urging him to change it. He refused to change it for a number of days.

He's been doing things that we don't agree with for a long time...

[me3]

For the cost of this blimp, Lawrence Lepard's Ad could be run in USA Today (again), the Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The New York Times, and the LA Times.

Just some food for thought.

[Pete Kay]

I HONORED my pledge... so should all of YOU...

Apparently many Paul supporters only want socialism...

Amazing. They only believe in Paul as long as no capitalism is involved!!


Freaking amazing...

HOLD on! I got a solution... lets round up as many college students and unemployed people that know NOTHING about doing this sort of thing and let them try doing this... that way I can feel all good about how no money was used to fund the expenses of living for these people...

Amazing...

This is a perfect example of capitalism. They are selling a product and we decided we don't want to buy it. Why should we waste our money? Anybody that feels they are selling a good product, well then you are welcome to spend your money. Isn't that how capitalism works? Or is it self righteous people yelling at others telling them to spend their money when they don't want to? That sounds more like socialism to me.

[twdahm]

I'm glad people are starting to talk and realize Trevor is getting a big head, I have been saying it for weeks. Now these sallaries are proving it. I will do any one of those jobs volunteer no pay!

[speciallyblend]

I read up to page 8, but here is what I get from most of the posts:
"I am jealous because I spent time helping to RP elected and I didn't get paid" WAH!! "If I didn't get paid, then NO ONE should". WAH!


There are a lot of people on this board who are afraid of those who make money from selling RP shirts, bumper stickers, signs, etc. Or those taking a cut from an ebay auction or garage sale. There's the general concensus here that you can't make money while supporting RP. It's unAmerican or selfish, greedy etc.

Yet when a rich man placed an ad in USA TODAY, it was spectacular. He was a hero. These boards lit up for a week after that ad was announced. Everyone was so happy!. YAY.

You can't have it both ways.
Either you allow people to make money in whatever way you wish or you don't get these big ideas becoming a reality.

It was your choice to give your time to RP for free. Do not take your frustration and jealousy out on Trevor and everyone else on this project. They are asking for money and if you do not support the money, then don't donate rather than slandering and name calling like we are in 4th grade again.

This type of in-fighting is what hurts us. Every day I see something like this brewing on these boards. Face it, you just love to stir drama!

ditto +1 beginning to turn into tmz.com next thing we find is the forum member causing all the problems is britney spears;)

[twdahm]

BTW we have almost raised enough to pay one persons salary so far..... SOURCE www.ronpaulblimp.com WAY TO GO (sarcasim)

[speciallyblend]

everyone has an opinion,if you dont like the blimp then shut up unless your donating.
Try funding your own idea,then present,but get ready to be attacked no matter what your idea is,unless your donating to this project,then your im and posting is just nonsense and dribble. enuff said now instead of attacking make your own plan,then plan it then excute it.i warn yopu,you will be attacked from a good portion of users,no matter what your idea is,so good luck since everyone knows all here. look forward to reading more posts by the kings and queens who havent even donated to it,but seem to have their opinions,gotta love america,people bitching about things they dont even have a hand in,yep we do live in AMERICA.

[ClayTrainor]

awww man... i can see the blimp project falling apart :(

this sucks

[speciallyblend]

BTW we have almost raised enough to pay one persons salary so far..... SOURCE www.ronpaulblimp.com WAY TO GO (sarcasim)

go back to hannity forms,if you havent donated to this,geez show me where you pledged or donated? if not , you have nothing worth saying. if you did donate,then you have a right to be concerned,but i doubt you did,if so then im wrong,until then i doubt you have spent a dime so why are you even here? for moral support? if so go join huckabee or thompson we dont need your positive views here;)(sarcasm)

[twdahm]

The interesting thing is once the pledges got up to 450,000's all the sudden they started taking salaries before that there was no talk about it.....

(personally I think alot of the pledges were Huck supporters that had no intent on giving just trying to get the number up)

[LibertyEagle]

bump

[LibertyEagle]

It was your choice to give your time to RP for free. Do not take your frustration and jealousy out on Trevor and everyone else on this project. They are asking for money and if you do not support the money, then don't donate rather than slandering and name calling like we are in 4th grade again.

This type of in-fighting is what hurts us. Every day I see something like this brewing on these boards. Face it, you just love to stir drama!

Let's be honest about what happened here. People became upset when Trevor took it upon himself to change the rules of game, midstream. What had started out as a grassroots endeavor, seems to have been changed by Trevor into an opportunity for him to launch a business with grassroots dollars.

The people have a right to get their questions answered. If Trevor would just come here and answer them, everything would have probably calmed down about this whole deal, long ago.

[born2drv]

I don't think it really matters anymore anyways. How much have people donated? Like $50k? That will pay for what, 6 weeks of "salary" with NO BLIMP?

Give me a break. What a shame such a great idea was so poorly executed by greedy and stupid individuals who wanted to weasel around campaign finance laws.

[constituent]

Mike of the Ron Paul riders is riding a bicycle from Los Angeles to Washington DC. He's never ridden a bike cross country before. He's on the streets, talking to people, every single town. Donate to that guy. I think he deserves it a little more then Trevor and these other 'video photographers' and 'web designers' do, personally.

X1000

Pay Mike 10X all of their salaries. He deserves it. Don't forget that he rode through the wildfires in california to get where he is. While the millionaires from mansions were getting massages on FEMA, he was riding a bike through it, trying to rent a truck through it, trying to stay in crummy motels to do it.

Yet, little chip-in love? Seriously, make a statement and give 350K to the Ron Paul Rider.... I'm sure he's got people behind him who could get that blimp rented.... and wouldn't it be awesome to have live webcam updates of the Ron Paul Rider from the Ron Paul blimp?

That'd be too cool.

[fireworks_god]

Well, the blimp idea was a good one. Sucks those who organized it had to ruin it. Oh well.

[twdahm]

Hate to beat the dead horse but this is now TWO unsuccesful events in a row people. Nov 30th and the Blimp. The news will have a blast with this one also.. Maybe you will all realize Trevor is not all you guys made him out to be. (like I have been saying for weeks.....) Oh yeah I forgot Im a Huck supporting whinner...

[davidhperry]

Hate to beat the dead horse but this is now TWO unsuccesful events in a row people. Nov 30th and the Blimp. The news will have a blast with this one also.. Maybe you will all realize Trevor is not all you guys made him out to be. (like I have been saying for weeks.....) Oh yeah I forgot Im a Huck supporting whinner...

I don't know about Trevor's intentions (which I take to be good) but I don't like us making fodder for the media.

If people still want to give money to the idea in it's current state, let them. Otherwise, it'll wither on the vine naturally.

[BlueGecko]

The blimp can happen lets just get some communication going!!! This can be saved, it was pushed suddenly on people but we can fix this. Well if Liberty LLC listens to concerns...anyway they have the contract to the only blimp that size available for December so I hope this can be worked out

[Mark]

Let's be honest about what happened here. People became upset when Trevor took it upon himself to change the rules of game, midstream. What had started out as a grassroots endeavor, seems to have been changed by Trevor into an opportunity for him to launch a business with grassroots dollars.

The people have a right to get their questions answered.

If Trevor would just come here and answer them,

everything would have probably calmed down about this whole deal, long ago.

They sent a woman to do it.

[iskimtsnow]

I completely agree with post #14. WWRPD. I support this project and think it is a great idea. I know it looks like there are alot of negative postings but I think it is just people who truly want to see this be a success. I also think a lot of the concern stems from two issues. First the expenses are currently unlimited and that makes people uncomfortable. They imagine 4 star hotels and fine dining, that may not be what is intended but that is the image in my head. Second I don’t think most people are opposed to salaries and decent ones at that, but the payroll looks FAT. Three or four coordinators are all that would be necessary for this. Finding qualified volunteer webmasters and videographers should be no problem. I am uncomfortable paying the salary of 10 people when it looks like 3 would do fine. The other stuff like jackets are trivial matters in the overall budget. Address the unlimited expenses and the number of staff and I think the controversy ends today! Think Professional, lean and mean

[CelestialRender]

They sent a woman to do it.

Way to make yourself look credible.

[Channing]

What's the problem?

Either you like the way the project is set up (and they are at least transparent about that) then donate or if you don't then don't donate.

If the project fails then you can start own Ron Paul blimp project.

[akovacs]

Yeah, I think that's too much. Living expenses as well as compensation for things that they still have to pay for outside of it (mortgage/rent, car payments, etc) should be more than adequate, and I suspect that it's much less than $52k/year.

I will donate anyway because I think the idea is good, but if I had any say, this should be changed.

[michaelwise]

I doubled my donation to the Ron Paul Blimp Project.
I can see the big impact that this project will make with Ron Paul Name recognition.
The paultry sum that will be spent on administration costs, pales in comparison to the boost in name recognition that we are all trying to achieve with our efforts. The formation of a corporation to deal with the limitations of a PAC was brilliant.

[Mark]

CelestialRender Way to make yourself look credible.?? The pictures of the person on their profile/avatar was a woman.

Are you saying the person is a man?

[LibertyEagle]

They sent a woman to do it.

What are you talking about?:confused:

[Santa Barbarian]

Don't let this project die just because these people want to be compensated for their time.

Let go of the egos and comparing your efforts to another.

We are only going to get one shot at freedom and this pettiness of not wanting to contribute just because someone might get paid is incredibly selfish.

Be the better person and get this blimp in the air and we'll be rewarded.

[mconder]

how about listing what the 8 people are doing.

Ya, what are they doing? Are they making the Blimp themselves?

[Ozwest]

Mark, Do you have a personal problem?

[Mark]

What are you talking about?:confused:

You mentioned they should just answer questions, and a lady was/is doing that now.

She did last night and some this morning.

[mconder]

I get paid 85K+ a year at my day job, but when I volunteer for RP, I find that I pay to be a volunteer. I don't see why we can't find 40 part time volunteers, like myself, who will handle all of this Blimp business for free.

I find the whole thing to be a bit of a scam. There I said, "SCAM ALERT!" Let thy wrath come down upon me now!

[Mark]

Mark, Do you have a personal problem?

naw I'm good man, do you?

[Mark]

I get paid 85K+ a year at my day job, but when I volunteer for RP, I find that I pay to be a volunteer. I don't see why we can't find 40 part time volunteers, like myself, who will handle all of this Blimp business for free.

I find the whole thing to be a bit of a scam. There I said, "SCAM ALERT!" Let thy wrath come down upon me now!

Someone already offered to cover all costs and get the blimp in Boston by the 16th. They turned the offer down . :( :confused:

[kevinblack]

I can't understand people complaining about these salaries. Of course you are welcome to vote with your wallet but at least try to put this into perspective before (and I say this with the utmost respect) whining.

Is there any other candidate trying to put something like this together? Not by a long shot. If any other candidate attempted this type of project the total cost will run into the multiple million dollar territory. The fact that THEY ARE MAKING THIS HAPPEN is incredible and they deserve and get MY thanks. I honestly appreciate the transparency with which they are approaching this process and I believe that projects like this are the only realistic chance Ron Paul has at surprising in the primaries.

I am traveling to Boston on the 15th and will be there for the teaparty. If on that day there is a Ron Paul blimp dropping tea on the harbor I am going to go NUTS.

[reduen]

I get paid 85K+ a year at my day job, but when I volunteer for RP, I find that I pay to be a volunteer. I don't see why we can't find 40 part time volunteers, like myself, who will handle all of this Blimp business for free.

I find the whole thing to be a bit of a scam. There I said, "SCAM ALERT!" Let thy wrath come down upon me now!

I'm with you here Condor, I find that everything I have done for the campaign has cost me money. (A bunch, but gladly..)

I would volunteer to help with this project for free. As it stands, I will not donate to such a cause as this..

[Mark]

I get paid 85K+ a year at my day job, but when I volunteer for RP, I find that I pay to be a volunteer. I don't see why we can't find 40 part time volunteers, like myself, who will handle all of this Blimp business for free.

I find the whole thing to be a bit of a scam. There I said, "SCAM ALERT!" Let thy wrath come down upon me now!

Here's the post of the offer to cover all costs.



Hand the project over to me I will take it on and fund all startup expenses on my own and take no salary....

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=518973#post518973


That's what they turned down.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[NerveShocker]

... they just cut salaries in half to 500$ a week... we have asked enough from them. We need to band together and support them and this project.

www.RonPaulBlimp.com

[Malakai0]

Wow I just looked at that page. Excessive spending much?

[skiingff]

5 of the 7 salaries have been cut in half, and from what I understand the "goal" is to get the blimp off the ground before paying salaries. Furthermore, the Blimp company has agreed to allow a citizen watchdog "committee" have complete access to the budget and financial records -- we need to get such committee established ASAP.

There's still thousands of dollars that could easily be cut from the proposed blimp expenses (we work hard for our money, and we expect others will treat it as such, and not spend like a bunch of drunken sailors). But I commend the blimp staff for acknowledging our concerns and acting in accordance.

Therefore, despite any shortcomings, I encourage everyone to get with the program, so we can get this thing in the air and act as a team.

[skiingff]

P.S. I plan to fulfill my pledge now.

[Wilkero]

Some people seem upset that they formed an LLC to do this, but I think you may be reading too much into that. First, they're probably worried about liability issues arising from this type of endeavor. An LLC will effectively limit their personal liability. Second, LLCs are incredibly cheap and easy to set up, so it makes more sense to do that rather than try to set up some other form of business organization like a corporation or limited liability partnership.

I've tried to read everything, but I may have missed if someone already mentioned this.

[JordanL]

Q & A


Why would you PAY people to do all of these things for the blimp project?

There are several reasons that you would want to pay a reasonable sallary as part of the blimp project.


Paying a reasonable sallary helps all of the employees focus on their work with full effort and availability.
It increases personal liability to their work. (i.e. if someone is being paid for their work, they perform that work better).
It helps fill in holes that otherwise might not be filled. (For instance, having fulltime videographers... sure, someone might help part of the time... but GUARNTEED to be available and ready ALL of the time?)
It helps legitimize the loophole around the FEC regulations.


Why form an LLC?

This has to do with how the FEC regulates non-profit organizations. An LLC is one of the cheapest and most functional forms of incorporation, and being a corporation frees up the group from all of the FECs red tape.

BUT, this is almost surely likely to be legally challenged. Thus, to escape the red tape, you must legitimize the company as a company by paying and retaining reasonable staff and salaries.

The extra money you pay to the employees is in effect a fee to completely disregard FEC regulations and monkey business. Whether or not you think being free of the FECs unconstitutional regulations is WORTH the extra costs is a personal matter.

So what exactly is the process for the blimp?

When you send money via the website, you are not "donating" you are "purchasing". It's a subtle difference, but one that matters a LOT in a legal sense. The purchase is for a set amount of time in the air using one of many pre-determined messages.

So why do the people involved get paid so much?

Clearly you haven't heard that the dollar is collapsing and inflation is rampant. ;) If you honestly think that the current sallaries are grossly greedy, please revisist the reasoning for "reasonable sallary" and then watch "Ron Paul: House of Cards": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaxdUPNYj2s

The dollar isn't worth what it used to be.

[libertarian4321]

Did it occur to anyone that a "blimp" may not be the best use of funds, even if it is legitimate?

[Wilkero]

Why form an LLC?

This has to do with how the FEC regulates non-profit organizations. An LLC is one of the cheapest and most functional forms of incorporation, and being a corporation frees up the group from all of the FECs red tape.


Sorry to quibble over terms, but LLC stands for "Limited Liability Company". Creating an LLC is NOT the same as incorporating (which is creating a corporation). There are several differences. For example, the owners of an LLC are called "members" but the owners of a corporation are "stockholders" or "shareholders." LLC's do not have stock, they have membership interests. Income from an LLC is is taxed as individual income to the owners, unless they elect to be taxed as a C-corp. Corporations may elect to be taxed as pass-through entities (S-corps.), but otherwise they are subject to double taxation. LLCs and corporations are really only similar insofar as they both grant limited liability to the owners.

[JordanL]

Sorry to quibble over terms, but LLC stands for "Limited Liability Company". Creating an LLC is NOT the same as incorporating (which is creating a corporation). There are several differences. For example, the owners of an LLC are called "members" but the owners of a corporation are "stockholders" or "shareholders." LLC's do not have stock, they have membership interests. Income from an LLC is is taxed as individual income to the owners, unless they elect to be taxed as a C-corp. Corporations may elect to be taxed as pass-through entities (S-corps.), but otherwise they are subject to double taxation. LLCs and corporations are really only similar insofar as they both grant limited liability to the owners.

I'm a business student. I know all of this.

But I'm not about to go and try and explain our convoluted legal system to people when what I set out to do was simplify things for them.

[ARealConservative]

I can't believe a no answer is currently sitting in second place.

I think we need to outsource the labor.......like to Iowa. You coastal people are setting the wage scale too high :D

[Wilkero]

I'm a business student. I know all of this.

But I'm not about to go and try and explain our convoluted legal system to people when what I set out to do was simplify things for them.

Calm down. I wasn't attacking you. I was simply correcting your mistake.

[JordanL]

Calm down. I wasn't attacking you. I was simply correcting your mistake.

That did come off a bit snappish.

I wasn't "retaliating", just letting you know what I didn't care about the particulars in this instance. ;)

[UtahApocalypse]

I knew nothing of this and I am truly sick to my stomach now. This is obviously some people being opportunistic. There are 100's is not 1000's of supporters who volunteer time, expertise for many projects. Maybe we should have started a fund to pay Micheal $1000/week for riding across country alone after I had to quit from being sick. He NEVER Asked for it, He bareley has asked for ANY help. Now this blimp thing is coming and asking to pay salaries to people?? Absolute BULL SHIT! We support Ron Paul because we want our country back, its not make a fast buck.

[Mark]

Did it occur to anyone that a "blimp" may not be the best use of funds, even if it is legitimate?

Yes. It was indeed a thought.

And it's been confirmed since all of the personal attacks began on people asking serious and legitimate questions about simple concerns.

[Ball]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/2/1362599_02bcdea730.jpg?v=0

[Benaiah]

I was thinking about donating money to the blimp project, but no longer will after seeing that they're going to make money off it.

[tonyTheBest]

I think the grassroot campaign is supposed to be volunteered. I appreciate Trevor tremendously but this thing can be backfired big time.
I don't know what Trevor is thinking. The blimp project is 1-month long, what he is getting from this one is only 2000 bucks max but he might have just destroyed his credibility.

[Jagwarr]

I wish I never have heard of the blimp project as it has put a damper on some of my enthusiasm.

I was thinking of going up to NH but now I just feel like I'd be a fool doing so.

While I would be up in NH giving my time and money, these other guys are going to be blimping around and MAKING money on Dr. Paul's name.

I know I shouldn't think this way but I am having a difficult time shaking it.

[ItsTime]

PM if you come to New Hampshire. Im Pauling it for free too. So are the 1000s of meet up groups and we wont stop because some people are trying to become famous off grassroots money.


I wish I never have heard of the blimp project as it has put a damper on some of my enthusiasm.

I was thinking of going up to NH but now I just feel like I'd be a fool doing so.

While I would be up in NH giving my time and money, these other guys are going to be blimping around and MAKING money on Dr. Paul's name.

I know I shouldn't think this way but I am having a difficult time shaking it.

[Ball]

My two cents:

I LOVE the idea of a blimp for the early primaries and I'd love to donate $100 for the BLIMP. It has good potential to get local news coverage wherever it goes.

But what is with the salaries and HD video? If you want HD video, fly the blimp over CNN and TiVo it. How many shots of a blimp do you need, anyway? What is this, wild safari? $300k can buy a lot of bus tickets to mob any event with unpaid Ron Paul supporters.

The local bike shop is a for-profit LLC and has lower personnel costs. You don't need a huge crew of chrome-polishers or the OJ dream team to get this project off the ground legitimately. Hell, one full-time employee working minimum is enough to claim you're legit.

C'mon guys, what were you thinking? I suppose one way to look at it is the salaries are a small percentage of the blimp cost, but that ignores what people are paying for. Unless you know a millionaire who really really likes HD footage of a blimp, this isn't a plan for success. It looks like you got a little ahead of yourselves.

This is a grass-roots effort with small money. I've donated my time and money to local groups and I'm going to NH soon. I'm not saying the pilot has to sleep in the blimp, but I would if it meant getting the project to fruition. You need a passion for things other than big ideas and big projects.

[Ball]

Alright, I looked at the site again and I'm going to contribute what I originally promised: $25.

I think you guys have your hearts in the right place, and while I think projects should start small and grow as funds become available, I think this is what will happen anyway out of necessity. Ideas are a dime a dozen, but you folks have put effort behind this to make it happen.

Time is of the essence, so I say contribute now and hopefully you guys will cash a reality check, too. I'd contribute more, but I need to save money for Operation Live Free or Die (I might need a scarf!).