Announced overhead costs amount to an extra 10% to 15%

[James R]

Deriving information from the posted at http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php page:

Startup Costs:
$25,000 "Paint Job"
$10,000 Lawyer Retention fees
$1,000 Crew jackets (in case media films inside blimp)

Monthly Costs:
$350,000 Blimp
$36,000 Salaries for 10 employees, two of them unpaid.
Video & Website Equipment $650/month
Undetermined: Lawyer costs
Undetermined: Travel & Food for traveling employees: Undetermined

Profit: Elijah has stated his initial goal is a 1% profit.

My opinion is that a 10% to 15% overhead cost for the blimp is reasonable.

[Doriath]

Agreed.

[synthetic]

Profit: Elijah has stated his initial goal is a 1% profit.

They are pocketing $1000 each, every week, at the expense of the grassroots. The company is the profit.

Lets try it this way. Its irrelevant if the company turns a profit. No, wait...

Lets take it a step further. Its impossible for the company to turn a profit. They don't have a product. They have nothing to sell. They are raising money through donations and putting large amounts directly into their pockets.

[millerjd]

They are pocketing $1000 each, every week, at the expense of the grassroots. The company is the profit.

Lets try it this way. Its irrelevant if the company turns a profit. No, wait...

Lets take it a step further. Its impossible for the company to turn a profit. They don't have a product. They have nothing to sell. They are raising money through donations and putting large amounts directly into their pockets.

Profit has nothing to do with if the employees get paid. Non-profit employees get paid. The difference between non-profit and profit is actually marginal. If you have a credit union, any money they make either has to go to employees (which is cost, not profit) or reinvested into the company instantly instead of reporting capital. Having capital is just saying you have cash-in-bank over operating expenses. Due to legal implications of non-profits and the elections, and time constraints, it's easy to see why it's easier to set it up the way it is. A good example of this is a credit union versus a bank... Credit unions make money too, but they technically never post a profit.

[steph3n]

They are pocketing $1000 each, every week, at the expense of the grassroots. The company is the profit.

Lets try it this way. Its irrelevant if the company turns a profit. No, wait...

Lets take it a step further. Its impossible for the company to turn a profit. They don't have a product. They have nothing to sell. They are raising money through donations and putting large amounts directly into their pockets.

Educate yourself before making baseless claims.
2004 PAC salaries
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:T7Q35bK8JVwJ:www.pac.org/files/2004%2520PAC%2520Admin%2520Compensation%2520Survey .ppt+PAC+salaries&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

[bbachtung]

I find it difficult to believe that no one would be willing to be the webmaster for less than $1,000 per week; I know that there are plenty of people running Ron Paul sites for free.

Press kits?!? Are you kidding me? I though that the novelty of the blimp itself would attract the press' attention?

Crew jackets? Ridiculous.

I don't know how much the FEC lawyer charged them to give them misinformation, but the following from the blimp website is flat wrong:



We will not be forming a PAC (Political Action Committee) as discussed originally. Under a PAC donations to the blimp would count towards donations to the official campaign. For example, if a person contributed $100 towards the PAC then they would only be able to contribute $2,200 of the $2,300 maximum to the official campaign. Forming a PAC would also be a FEC legal nightmare due to regulations and restrictions.

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/PAC_Explanation.php

The limits are $2,300 per election per federal candidate, and $5,000 per federal PAC per calendar year. http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/citizens.shtml

[alexpasch]

I believe the reason the PAC is not like the 5k PACs is because it's for a specific candidate...your argument has been mentioned before and this has been the reason given. But then again I'm sure you know more than the FEC lawyer...

Most of the haters here have no appreciation for the amount of work it took to get this thing up and running. They think we're paying these guys 1k a week to hand out slim jims.

The PAC vs. LLC thing is all in your head. The reality is that there is NO DIFFERENCE in the amount the organizer pockets.

[Bakkhus]

I find it difficult to believe that no one would be willing to be the webmaster for less than $1,000 per week; I know that there are plenty of people running Ron Paul sites for free.[/url]

You can absolutely get one for half that price, if not a recent college grad for free. In addition, with all do respect to Trevor, Elijah, and the rest; people don't know any of you. I expect that I am like a lot of people in saying that I won't be donating unless I see posted on the website a full resume and professional portfolio from all those who are are being paid (except the FEC Chairman). That isn't much to ask when you are asking for such salaries.

[Abobo]

You can absolutely get one for half that price, if not a recent college grad for free.

I'm a website designer and I would do the site for FREE -- but there's a problem. Since I need money to stay alive I would have to continue my current job. So, they would not be getting a full-time website designer, they would be getting someone doing it in spare time.

Their reasoning for paying so much is to allow the designer to do it full-time. Not just as one of many projects.

$4,000 a month for full-time monitoring, editing, and updating isn't much. Let alone not being paid a upfront fee for developing the site.

[BlueGecko]

Before a job salary is called "Reasonable" offer it to the boards for qualified people to Volunteer either for free or expenses!!!!!

[Abobo]

Before a job salary is called "Reasonable" offer it to the boards for qualified people to Volunteer either for free or expenses!!!!!

No, that may get you the cheapest rate. But a "reasonable" rate would be one you could expect to find in the open market. And a full time website developer is not cheap.

[Bakkhus]

No, that may get you the cheapest rate. But a "reasonable" rate would be one you could expect to find in the open market. And a full time website developer is not cheap.

True. Some of the best are quite expensive. But before we can justify such an expenditure, I would suggest that the person's professional portfolio of websites that he or she has worked on in the past needs to be posted on the website. Otherwise, we don't know if that fee is "reasonable" or not. The current website certainly doesn't reflect the work of a top notch website developer. It could easily have been created in a few hours using Yahoo Pagebuilder.

[leonster]

I find it difficult to believe that no one would be willing to be the webmaster for less than $1,000 per week; I know that there are plenty of people running Ron Paul sites for free.

Yes, does seem steep... but in this case, I think it's good to be a paid position. It's been explained that this site will be extensive and real-time. A volunteer could certainly do an extensive website, but what happens when something goes wrong? Remember when the TeaParty site went down, and we couldn't get it up b/c the operator was a volunteer? Well, if you hire an employee, then you have real accountability--it's his JOB to be accountable for it running smoothly. A volunteer could set up an amazing site, but then if something goes wrong, maybe he's unavailable or busy with other things and can't fix it right away...

No, I think a paid position is the way to go, here. Maybe $1,000 is too much, though.


Press kits?!? Are you kidding me? I though that the novelty of the blimp itself would attract the press' attention?

Mostly agreed. I guess I'm not familiar with this kind of thing... but honestly, it seems more powerful to me to have VERY SIMPLE press materials, highlighting that this project truly came from a group of concerned citizens, and this ISN'T a typical campaign.

By simple materials, I mean really simple... like fact sheets that come from their own printers or a photocopier, a few photos, a printed flight plan... something along those lines.

Making it too professional-looking seems counter-productive to me. Maybe that's just me, though. "Folksy" will get much more positive coverage on the local news, I would think.



Crew jackets? Ridiculous.

The idea isn't bad, to have staff be identifiable... but the cost seems rather high. Aren't there more affordable options?

You know, my favorite Ron Paul picture is one where he is sitting alone in a chair, and his cheap sneakers are clearly visible. It shows he's humble... and more importantly, shows he PERSONALLY practices what he preaches on fiscal conservatism.

[voytechs]

Lets take it a step further. Its impossible for the company to turn a profit. They don't have a product. They have nothing to sell. They are raising money through donations and putting large amounts directly into their pockets.

You missed the point. Their product is "advertising Ron Paul from the AIR and producing major media buzz about it over hundreds of different towns and several states." To me that is one hell of the a product that costs as little as $25. Hell I spent about $700 on slim-jims, bumper stickers and yard signs already. I am willing to buy 2.7 minutes of the most amazing advertising even if its for 2.7 minutes (think 2.7 minutes of hover over a major football event), hell I am going to buy 10.8 minutes all for Ron Paul.

If you know of another company that will do this, point me to them and if they provide better advertising for less, I will purchase their product. But until then stop whining and trying to derail this project. I wish we had more advertising companies willing to advertise Ron Paul this cheap. We're not talking about a billboard on some highway here or water tower we can lease. We have a giant billboard in the sky that we command to go anywhere we want. Oh there is more. It will give rides to MSM reporters so they can produce the most amazing articles about Ron Paul in history of politics. Thats worth $25, or $100 bucks.

[vodalian]

The idea isn't bad, to have staff be identifiable... but the cost seems rather high. Aren't there more affordable options?


This is the problem that many have, including myself. I personally couldn't care less if people donate for a blimp, which is why I never complained before, but this kind of wasted spending is going to really hurt Ron Paul's campaign, I really wish people would think about this instead of going with what's cool and popular sounding.

Renting a blimp = Might work
Supporting people's livelihood at 4k per mo per person = not good
Buying expensive (UNNEEDED) little nicknacks = not good

It's like they looked at the costs and increased them wherever they can, this is what I'm suspicious of. I can EASILY lower the amount they need and still have the EXACT same outcome (media wise).


This started as a goal to get a blimp up and it has turned into an entire business with tons of bloated fees and salaries that sprung up out of nowhere.

[vodalian]

The idea isn't bad, to have staff be identifiable... but the cost seems rather high. Aren't there more affordable options?


This is the problem that many have, including myself. I personally couldn't care less if people donate for a blimp, which is why I never complained before, but this kind of wasted spending can really hurt Ron Paul's campaign, I really wish people would think about this instead of going with what's cool and popular sounding.

Renting a blimp = Might work
Supporting people's livelihood at 4k per mo per person = not good
Buying expensive (UNNEEDED) little nicknacks = not good
Obviously bloating the fees so that you can make more profit = not good

This started as a goal to get a blimp up and it has turned into an entire business with tons of bloated fees and very generous salaries that sprung up out of nowhere. What a waste of grassroots money, I really hope that this little dash for cash doesn't affect Ron Paul's campaign too bad.

[BlueGecko]

Ok I understand that you worry the low bid would be a bad quality job. Not true many people who are good at what they do would volunteer. Not saying accept person who will do for free because it's cheap but if there is a Qualified person that wants to why not offer? plus the more volunteers the less the other expenses will be trust me. The attitude of a volunteer vs. paid employee is vastly different.
Plus maybe the paid employees would feel guilty by volunteers are lower their salaries sort of like RP returning part of his Congressional Budget. :D

Dedicate some of your life to others. Your dedication will not be a sacrifice. It will be an exhilarating experience because it is an intense effort applied toward a meaningful end.

[Rhys]

I'm starting to feel like this is doing more good for Liberty Ads then is for Ron Paul. I love a grass roots blimp. I'm ok with a corporate blimp that says Ron Paul, but I don't want to pay for it.

There's a lot of us doing expensive work for free.

I'm an advertiser.graphic designer.web designer. I'm more than willing to VOLOUNTEER time. I could make press kits for free. I could make a logo for your jacket for free. Hell, I could even install the graphics on the blimp for free as I do city buses some times.

But not about me... there's lawyers and accountants and everything right here in the community. We've all donated our highly expensive and sought after services.

Now, the blimp people have decided there's money to be made from us. I understand they want money and I understand they're not asking for much... However, with all the glitz and glamour and fame, I think Ron Paul is becoming less important to Liberty than is the prestige. I only say this because out of all the people who do stuff for Ron Paul, why did these three people first get to own the blimp... second, get paid.

I think we'd all love to get paid.

Last, if Liberty uses ever bit of money for the blimp... very cool. If they pay people, fine. However, these people should not just be message board buddies. They need to be qualified and experienced. I don't want to donate to you guys, I want to donate to Ron Paul.

So, pay your salary. Profit 0%, not 1%. If you MUST profit, then start a company with a product and sell it. And if Liberty Ads takes off after the blimp, on the capitol we donated for a blimp.... that's rude. The whole reason of Liberty Ads is so we can have a blimp... not the worlds largest and cheapest to the owners, promotions company.

But MOST of all... the Blimp is exciting because it's grass roots. If it ceases to be so, it's just a stupid blimp and all the blimp naysayers will be right. I love the blimp idea, if it doesn't get co-oped by people who see a lucrative opportunity.

[ItsTime]

HOW MUCH HAS BEEN RAISED MINUS EXPENSES SO FAR???

Thank you that is all.

[Bakkhus]

Last, if Liberty uses ever bit of money for the blimp... very cool. If they pay people, fine. However, these people should not just be message board buddies. They need to be qualified and experienced.

Absolutely. If you want a salary and are asking grass roots Paul supporters to pay for it, show us your professional portfolios and resumes. What people also always seem to forget when discussing this salary issue is the tremendous free publicity that the main people involved will be getting from this endeavor, which will be extremely valuable to their professional careers.

[Ethek]

Absolutely. If you want a salary and are asking grass roots Paul supporters to pay for it, show us your professional portfolios and resumes. What people also always seem to forget when discussing this salary issue is the tremendous free publicity that the main people involved will be getting from this endeavor, which will be extremely valuable to their professional careers.

True, but this smacks of jealousy. The peole behind this have traits that have put them in the position they are in. The blimp will fly or it will not at this point using this framework and no other. I think its an unbelievable opprotunity for the campaign. The campaign is all I am worried about. Trevor had the notion and the savvy to get the ball rolling on the 5th. Thats already put him in the spotlight. Elysia is the guy behind the blimp idea. Thats his road to fame.

The whole concept of 'whose getting mine first' reminds me allot of the entitlement system. I see this newly formed LLC as an asset for defending the constitution. The Dems have Moveon.org. I am sure that is a grotesque bureaucracy... but you can bet they would love a socialist paradise. I would spend my whole life opposing that. We need to build a framework to combat all of the these 'owned' media outlets. Sorry it couldn't be me on the ride... but this is important to me, its got my vote.

[Bakkhus]

True, but this smacks of jealousy. The peole behind this have traits that have put them in the position they are in. The blimp will fly or it will not at this point using this framework and no other. I think its an unbelievable opprotunity for the campaign. The campaign is all I am worried about. Trevor had the notion and the savvy to get the ball rolling on the 5th. Thats already put him in the spotlight. Elysia is the guy behind the blimp idea. Thats his road to fame.

The whole concept of 'whose getting mine first' reminds me allot of the entitlement system. I see this newly formed LLC as an asset for defending the constitution. The Dems have Moveon.org. I am sure that is a grotesque bureaucracy... but you can bet they would love a socialist paradise. I would spend my whole life opposing that. We need to build a framework to combat all of the these 'owned' media outlets. Sorry it couldn't be me on the ride... but this is important to me, its got my vote.

I can understand your point but I think you are coming at this from the wrong angle. The whole point about establishing this company was supposedly to be able to put the blimp in the air, not to establish another Moveon.org company. If they wanted to do that, then fine start a company and take donations for its operation. I bring up the resume and portfolio issue because they are asking to take part of my donations to pay their salary. And as a quality-conscious consumer I want to know what I am getting for that money. I want to donate to the blimp and cover the basic expenses of the people involved but it is quite troubling to me when simple things like running a spellcheck on the website isn't done and they have to rely on forum members to point out typos and grammatical mistakes.