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limequat
10-13-2014, 07:15 AM
There's been a few things this year that have moved me to donate cash to people that have been victimized by the state.
I'm a tightwad, this is new to me.
But it makes me think, as a group we could really inflict some pain and suffering on the state. Think of Shaneen Allen. She had broad support, but some of that was RPF sending donations and hassling the prosecutor. She was probably saved of 3-10 years of jail time by people like you and I sending $10 and phoning the dirty rats in NJ.

What are your top issues? Are there causes that you could really get behind to donate time or money?
A RPF project could address a top issue by 1) identifying a top cause 2) defining a scope that RPF could accomplish 3) executing and 4) reporting results.

Take the case of Baby Bou for instance. The 18 m/o baby boy was blown up in a SWAT raid. RPF is pretty good about bumping posts and maybe even sending a few bucks to help with medical expenses. But what about taking it a step further? Maybe buying a billboard to shame the Sheriff? What about organizing a protest to draw more media attention?

Would you be interested? What are your top causes?

GunnyFreedom
10-13-2014, 07:31 AM
Bump sub for later when not on phone

mosquitobite
10-13-2014, 07:57 AM
There's been a few things this year that have moved me to donate cash to people that have been victimized by the state.
I'm a tightwad, this is new to me.
But it makes me think, as a group we could really inflict some pain and suffering on the state. Think of Shaneen Allen. She had broad support, but some of that was RPF sending donations and hassling the prosecutor. She was probably saved of 3-10 years of jail time by people like you and I sending $10 and phoning the dirty rats in NJ.

What are your top issues? Are there causes that you could really get behind to donate time or money?
A RPF project could address a top issue by 1) identifying a top cause 2) defining a scope that RPF could accomplish 3) executing and 4) reporting results.

Take the case of Baby Bou for instance. The 18 m/o baby boy was blown up in a SWAT raid. RPF is pretty good about bumping posts and maybe even sending a few bucks to help with medical expenses. But what about taking it a step further? Maybe buying a billboard to shame the Sheriff? What about organizing a protest to draw more media attention?

Would you be interested? What are your top causes?

I love this idea!

My top issue though is one that every county likely deals with: how much nepotism is in county government? Schools and school boards as well.


A RPF project could address a top issue by 1) identifying a top cause 2) defining a scope that RPF could accomplish 3) executing and 4) reporting results.

I really think Abdulrahman Awlaki is one that we could/should have addressed better, especially around the timing of Rand's filibuster.

That's the kind of issue we need to address.

Obama on one side of a sign and Dick Cheney on the other with "Who is to blame for ISIS?" Then a webpage with the link of Cheney's "quagmire" video.

CaseyJones
10-13-2014, 09:19 AM
bumping for activism

CaseyJones
10-13-2014, 12:03 PM
How about starting up a general defense fund that can be voted on how to dispense on the forums by the primary donators?
And/Or creating a network of protestors in every state to picket police departments when these things happen?

CaseyJones
10-13-2014, 01:30 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?461327-Tuscaloosa-AL-to-Uber-Drivers-Stop-Driving-or-Face-Arrest

here is something, start actively fighting against the governments attempts to regulate this free market public transportation option out of existence

amy31416
10-13-2014, 03:46 PM
I love this idea!

My top issue though is one that every county likely deals with: how much nepotism is in county government? Schools and school boards as well.



I really think Abdulrahman Awlaki is one that we could/should have addressed better, especially around the timing of Rand's filibuster.

That's the kind of issue we need to address.

Obama on one side of a sign and Dick Cheney on the other with "Who is to blame for ISIS?" Then a webpage with the link of Cheney's "quagmire" video.

It really bothers me that Abdulrahman's assassination got almost zero attention, hell, it was wrong to assassinate his father, much less his child. Police militarization is a no-brainer for political activism in all the variations--greens, commies, republicans, dems, etc. Although republicans tend to worship military authority, while dems tend to worship gov't authority (same thing, I know.)

NorthCarolinaLiberty
10-13-2014, 05:51 PM
Right now I am better for donating time than I am cash. I do research, marketing, and writing/editing in my work, so I would be glad to contribute anything there. I don't have thoughts on issues, but the dog killings affect me a lot.

kcchiefs6465
10-13-2014, 07:33 PM
It really bothers me that Abdulrahman's assassination got almost zero attention, hell, it was wrong to assassinate his father, much less his child. Police militarization is a no-brainer for political activism in all the variations--greens, commies, republicans, dems, etc. Although republicans tend to worship military authority, while dems tend to worship gov't authority (same thing, I know.)
A bill board of a mangled drone victim I'd contribute to.

And I'm tapped out.

ClydeCoulter
10-13-2014, 07:37 PM
A bill board of a mangled drone victim I'd contribute to.

And I'm tapped out.

I'd donate for that too.

CaseyJones
10-13-2014, 07:39 PM
how about a blimp with "Damn The Man!" on it!!!

amy31416
10-13-2014, 07:53 PM
how about a blimp with "Damn The Man!" on it!!!

That'd end up being a joke--people are dying and we're paying for it, that needs to end. (I think you're joking, just sayin'.)

Origanalist
10-13-2014, 09:01 PM
How about starting up a general defense fund that can be voted on how to dispense on the forums by the primary donators?
And/Or creating a network of protestors in every state to picket police departments when these things happen?

So the poor slob who only had five bucks to throw in doesn't get a vote?

CaseyJones
10-13-2014, 10:22 PM
So the poor slob who only had five bucks to throw in doesn't get a vote?

no
but if you have a better idea let's hear it

Origanalist
10-13-2014, 11:04 PM
no
but if you have a better idea let's hear it

Sure, I'll donate to what I want to and bypass your fund. :) (jackass)

CaseyJones
10-13-2014, 11:21 PM
Sure, I'll donate to what I want to and bypass your fund. :) (jackass)

lol it was just an idea for doing something, I do know how much all you hate to actually do anything

Origanalist
10-13-2014, 11:26 PM
lol it was just an idea for doing something, I do know how much all you hate to actually do anything

I guess we can't all be as righteous as you, brother Casey.

CaseyJones
10-13-2014, 11:29 PM
I guess we can't all be as righteous as you, brother Casey.

I ain't your brother, I don't even like you fucking people but we either all hang together or we hang separately as someone once said, now quit niggling infantile points of order and lets do some shit instead of just philosofapping the day away shall we?

Origanalist
10-13-2014, 11:32 PM
I ain't your brother, I don't even like you fucking people but we either all hang together or we hang separately as someone once said, now quit niggling infantile points of order and lets do some shit instead of just philosofapping the day away shall we?

Define "you fucking people".

Origanalist
10-13-2014, 11:36 PM
And please expound on why the "primary donators" should get to decide what happens to my contribution. It sounds as lot like the republican party.

CaseyJones
10-13-2014, 11:50 PM
And please expound on why the "primary donators" should get to decide what happens to my contribution. It sounds as lot like the republican party.

doesn't have to be that way I was just suggesting an idea, we could make it so an elected board decided where best to send the money, but having everyone who donated a dime vote would be very messy and prone to gaming, but wouldn't it be good to have five ten or twenty K laying around so when something happened like the case of Shaneen Allen we could immediately send her the funds instead of slowly gathering it?

Mani
10-14-2014, 01:22 AM
War on Drugs/Police state I think are hot button issues that can bring about a lot of attention.


There are a lot of innocent families torn apart, killed, hurt, destroyed. There are plenty of open/shut cases that I think can be good rallying cries to get grassroots support and can go viral or can go further and get general public support.


I've seen some of the police killing dog stories rally communities together. I've seen certain fedbook pages come out and have lead to marches and demands from the local population and the issues become local news and even officers getting fired.


Shaneen Allen is a great example of making enough noise to cause change. That woman's life was going to be ruined no doubt if not for all the attention and noise.


I like the idea and I would hope we grab the low hanging fruit. The ones where it's clear we can show the public the war on drugs has gone too far or a SWAT team or officer have gone too far.

If we can bring about enough cases and start to show people the War on Drugs is killing or hurting too many innocent people, maybe we can get people to look at alternatives or change people's mindset that SWAT teams over a $40 meth deal are not the way to go.

Origanalist
10-14-2014, 06:36 AM
doesn't have to be that way I was just suggesting an idea, we could make it so an elected board decided where best to send the money, but having everyone who donated a dime vote would be very messy and prone to gaming, but wouldn't it be good to have five ten or twenty K laying around so when something happened like the case of Shaneen Allen we could immediately send her the funds instead of slowly gathering it?

Ya, I don't think I'm going to donate to a fund controlled by somebody who thinks of me as "you fucking people". It still sounds like the RNC. Too bad, it was a good idea.

William Tell
10-14-2014, 07:27 AM
Ya, I don't think I'm going to donate to a fund controlled by somebody who thinks of me as "you fucking people". It still sounds like the RNC. Too bad, it was a good idea.

Pretty sure Casey was calling you a stud.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
10-14-2014, 07:29 AM
lol

William Tell
10-14-2014, 07:32 AM
A fund is a nice idea, but I fear someone will call for the piggy bank to be broken every other time AF posts a cop story. Certainly there are lots of people who deserve help, but we don't have enough money between us.

Doing more projects would be good, don't know what sort though.

Origanalist
10-14-2014, 08:56 AM
Pretty sure Casey was calling you a stud.

That would mean a lot coming from a stud like him. I'm all a quiver.

CaseyJones
10-14-2014, 10:23 AM
Ya, I don't think I'm going to donate to a fund controlled by somebody who thinks of me as "you fucking people". It still sounds like the RNC. Too bad, it was a good idea.

I don't wanna administrate it I was just suggesting an idea, but hey any reason you need not to do anything

Origanalist
10-14-2014, 08:22 PM
I don't wanna administrate it I was just suggesting an idea, but hey any reason you need not to do anything

Your full of shit. Take your keyboard commando bullshit and shove it up your ass.

fr33
10-14-2014, 08:31 PM
I do like the idea of buying billboards to criticize police chiefs when they are in the wrong. Of course it needs to be done in a way that partially prevents someone from getting successfully sued by using the right wording and having the right type of organization rather than individual be bait for a lawsuit. Protesting is good but not as good as other things. I just don't really have time for it and live too far away from the city but I donate to things I support.

William Tell
10-14-2014, 08:32 PM
Your full of shit. Take your keyboard commando bullshit and shove it up your ass.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/fc/fc495636b053b8b493dc2e005ea9e093acb80f060eb667314c 3258b4fbb93a1e.jpg

CaseyJones
10-14-2014, 08:40 PM
Your full of shit. Take your keyboard commando bullshit and shove it up your ass.

well lets see..
I have gone to D.C. several times (on my own dime) to attend conferences and vote on straw polls, they used to joke Ron only won if I showed up
I have been in the inner circle on the planning of most of the money bombs after 07 and ran one
I have gone to several protests such as end the fed and restore the 4th etc
I have advised a few campaigns and consider one of the liberty congressmen a very good friend of mine and talk with him often
other myriad things as well as being a mod here

what have you done?


Define "you fucking people".

I think you have defined it well

Origanalist
10-14-2014, 08:50 PM
well lets see..
I have gone to D.C. several times (on my own dime) to attend conferences and vote on straw polls, they used to joke Ron only won if I showed up
I have been in the inner circle on the planning of most of the money bombs after 07 and ran one
I have gone to several protests such as end the fed and restore the 4th etc
I have advised a few campaigns and consider one of the liberty congressmen a very good friend of mine and talk with him often
other myriad things as well as being a mod here

what have you done?



I think you have defined it well

Well aint you special?

You voted in a straw poll.

You're a inner circle guy.

The Fed is still there and the Fourth is still being violated as much or worse than it was.

But on the plus side you are really fucking impressed with yourself.

Origanalist
10-14-2014, 08:51 PM
If you want me out of here wonder boy, ban me. you're a mod.

Carlybee
10-14-2014, 09:28 PM
lol it was just an idea for doing something, I do know how much all you hate to actually do anything

I'm out $13000... So far for the legal defense of a family member who refused a breath test and was forced to submit to a blood test. Probably another $2500 before the trial. So much as I'd love to help..tapped out. Not sure Santa will even be coming this year.

kcchiefs6465
10-14-2014, 09:33 PM
I'm out $13000... So far for the legal defense of a family member who refused a breath test and was forced to submit to a blood test. Probably another $2500 before the trial. So much as I'd love to help..tapped out. Not sure Santa will even be coming this year.
Smdh.

Bryan
10-14-2014, 10:22 PM
Alright all.... I think this is a good example of why general donation funds aren't for everyone, particular in the liberty movement. IMO, what's good is to establish the idea for something and allow for general donations but after that, there is no vote. Once a very specific case comes up then you can start a campaign to get funds for that very specific project in which everyone can then vote with their dollars and apply general funds as well. This can get more donations since it's a specific issue and you can really tie in the human element to it since it's real people and not just some generic thing.

Natural Citizen
10-14-2014, 11:37 PM
I've changed my line of thinking in the larger scheme of things and from a community driven perspective since the previous thought that I'd shared here. I also misjudged Casey Jones. So, sorry for that, Casey Jones. It happens. I actually understand your discontent in a way that I likely did not previously. Is what it is.

Anti Federalist
10-14-2014, 11:44 PM
I'm out $13000... So far for the legal defense of a family member who refused a breath test and was forced to submit to a blood test. Probably another $2500 before the trial. So much as I'd love to help..tapped out. Not sure Santa will even be coming this year.

Land of the free.

Why not start right here?

Anti Federalist
10-14-2014, 11:45 PM
I'm out $13000... So far for the legal defense of a family member who refused a breath test and was forced to submit to a blood test. Probably another $2500 before the trial. So much as I'd love to help..tapped out. Not sure Santa will even be coming this year.

Land of the free.

Why not start right here?

I'd chip in.

GunnyFreedom
10-15-2014, 12:51 AM
Actually, there are several different ways to make voting work fairly for something like this.

The simplest way would be a simple "one dollar equals one vote" paradigm. The guy who gives $100 has 100 votes, the guy who gives $5 has 5 votes.

Truth be told there is a legitimate reason for 'weighting' votes, because a bunch of $1 contributors can overwhelm the handful of $200 contributors and approve something awful. It would totally be worth $20 to a provocateur to line up 20 $1 contributions and ruin the dreams of the 5 $200 contributors.

On the other hand, is is also pretty shady to say only the people with the big money have any voice. That could equally end up manipulated in a different way.

So the simple answer is everybody who contributes votes, but the votes are weighted by amount. IE every $1 equals 1 vote.

There are still problems with what amounts to a direct democracy, of course. And a more complicated system could protect against that also. Model the selection system on the Constitutional Republic. Say, $1 = 1 vote to advance ideas into consideration, whereupon they are fleshed out and brought to the point of implementation, followed by a final 'each contributor gets 1 vote' to actually pull the trigger and launch the project. (or vice-versa, with the equal vote for consideration and the weighted vote for launching) A bit more complicated, but it also avoids the pitfalls of the either/or method.

Point being there are alternative routes available, and there is no reason for anybody to get bent out of shape trying to figure out a viable means of making projects arise from the community.

Bryan
10-15-2014, 01:52 AM
Thanks, NC. People have bad days sometimes and with what we are up against it's no wonder. We're in this fight for the long haul. I'm certainly not always thrilled with how things go down on the site but sometimes it's better to have too much passion and energy that can set things off then being a bunch of brain dead zombies.

CJs a good man, and I'd stand by him any day. He has brought a lot to the movement and does great at advancing activism. Wish we had a lot more like him.

Btw, I'd be interested to hear about your speaking experiences.

RonPaulIsGreat
10-15-2014, 04:09 AM
The dollar per x votes is the only real method.

It's pretty simple to implement. You create a bitcoin clone, called "donationcoin" or whatever. Set up a site, and send coins (voting rights) to the individuals wallet 10 coins / dollar rounded down after fees deducted. Then they can cash in those coins to vote. You don't get "permanent" voting rights with the coins either, you vote and the coin is gone. So, only vote if you really want a project, or really don't want one.

So, project one would be a list of user supplied possible initiatives.

1) Taxation is Theft Sign (vote send coin to address:akdkkekkk3k4k4k4k4k32423626.
to
20) Puppies are Fun Sign (vote send coin to address:ak3i9df9sd9f9asd9fa9sdfasdfaa.
And Vote. Next month have another vote.

osan
11-02-2014, 07:07 AM
How about starting up a general defense fund that can be voted on how to dispense on the forums by the primary donators?
And/Or creating a network of protestors in every state to picket police departments when these things happen?\

If a defense fund is to be established, make it formal. I am sure there are some who would like nothing better than to toss every last stinking one of the RPF employees into a cage. Taking in money and managing it would provide far too many low-hanging pretexts for that and/or shutting the site down, if handled casually. That means lawyer, which means money... unless you have pro bono resources, of course.

Don't make an easy target of yourselves to the IRS, because no doubt someone there will put eyes on this.

Weston White
11-02-2014, 07:50 AM
How about a reoccurring “Donate to the Poll Pool”’s? Meaning a new pool is generated via forum thread within a designated subforum, the most relevant current concerns are posted and discussed therein, then a voting poll is established by a designated moderator (or two), wherein all may donate to a general fund and submit their vote to the area concerning them the most the most popular concern is awarded the funding.

Also as an alternate option the funds could be distributed in proportion to the votes, e.g., a final tally on an enumerated item of 45% receives 45% of the funding achieved.

Either way, this would function on a reasonable timeframe so as to ensure adequate participation (30-day intervals); it should also be hot-linked on the main Website page and permit for both verified guest and anonymous forum member participation, while using PayPal or similar services.

osan
11-02-2014, 07:59 AM
The dollar per x votes is the only real method.

It's pretty simple to implement. You create a bitcoin clone, called "donationcoin" or whatever. Set up a site, and send coins (voting rights) to the individuals wallet 10 coins / dollar rounded down after fees deducted. Then they can cash in those coins to vote. You don't get "permanent" voting rights with the coins either, you vote and the coin is gone. So, only vote if you really want a project, or really don't want one.

So, project one would be a list of user supplied possible initiatives.

1) Taxation is Theft Sign (vote send coin to address:akdkkekkk3k4k4k4k4k32423626.
to
20) Puppies are Fun Sign (vote send coin to address:ak3i9df9sd9f9asd9fa9sdfasdfaa.
And Vote. Next month have another vote.

There could be a better method... here are my thoughts.

This whole "voting" thing fails for me because in theory you can still have money shunted to something to which you are in strong disagreement. For example, what if there was a woman to whom, for whatever reason, funds were being collected to buy her an abortion? No doubt some of us here would be very upset to know that their donation went to this cause. This is why voting is, IMO, a poor instrument.

This is an age of computer technology. Why not make the most of it and venture far beyond the limitations of voting? I am thinking of direct donation through RPF which would serve as a "holding company" of sorts for all the various causes. A cause to which to donate is established, listed with RPF, and people donate directly to it or do not. There is no questioning the path of a given donation. If Mr. Jones specifies his money for Cause A, it is only to that cause that it goes. Nobody but Mr. Jones dictates this. RPF becomes nothing more than a clearing house, so to speak, directing the donations as specified not by some third party committee of members, but rather by each donor himself. Members should be able to nominate situations for "cause status" and perhaps that could be voted upon by members... though this might become unwieldy, especially if many causes are nominated. Perhaps more practically workable would be for RPF to ID candidates, announce them for discussion and let members give their input, RPF reserving ultimate decision-making authority. This streamlines the process while providing a mechanism for keeping RPF rooted in reality by allowing comment to help guide the decision process. And when RPF pooches it in the eyes of a given member, that member at least retains the satisfaction that none of his donations will be routed along that path.

Donations are made directly to the cause specified by the donor, RPF serving as the delivery instrument only.

And why limit this to cash donations only? Granted, non-cash, material gift donations could become a very large operation in itself, necessitating non-trivial operational capital, I see no reason not to at least hold the notion in reserve for another day. One never can say for sure where things will lead. Perhaps a partnership with an organization such as Salvation Army to help those in acute need with material items such as clothing and furniture? Imagine, for example, an entry team comprised of nitwit wannabe tough-guy cops (talk about redundancy) botch a raid on the wrong home and burn it to the ground. The family, which waiting to get their lives back in order secure a place to live, but they have naught for clothing but that which clads their backs. With the sort of arrangement I suggest, they would be able to go shopping for temporary raiments on a very short-notice basis at very low cost to donors, special pricing having perhaps been arranged with the outlet source. I suggest Salvation Army mainly because costs would be lower than with, say, the likes of even a KMart and SA has a reputation for honest operations, unlike others such as Good Will.

Anyhow, that is the rough cut of my notion. Feel free to drill holes in it or amend it or toss it into the rotary file.

Anti Federalist
11-20-2014, 12:41 PM
I ain't your brother, I don't even like you fucking people but we either all hang together or we hang separately as someone once said, now quit niggling infantile points of order and lets do some shit instead of just philosofapping the day away shall we?

Huh, now I why Origanalist left...

acptulsa
11-20-2014, 01:13 PM
Casey did have a point, though. If the wise heads can't pull those heads in out of the clouds long enough to issue some marching orders, then the men of action have the right by default to go do something even if it's wrong.

green73
11-20-2014, 01:22 PM
Casey did have a point, though. If the wise heads can't pull those heads in out of the clouds long enough to issue some marching orders, then the men of action have the right by default to go do something even if it's wrong.

I can't speak for anybody else but I work every day trying to reach new people with the message of liberty, and have been doing so for the past seven years. I'd be willing to compare my hours worked with many of the loudmouthed statists here who get off their asses only when election time comes around.

acptulsa
11-20-2014, 01:48 PM
I'm not checking resumes, or pointing fingers, or checking to see if the fingers already pointed were pointed the right direction.

Two good men wound up playing lightning rod for one another, to no one's benefit. I'm trying to find out how they wound up talking past each other, and what it is that would turn that misspent energy into a useful dynamic.

If someone knows there's an obstacle but can't figure out what it is, have enough respect for him to figure it out for him. Because if his goals are the same as yours, then his obstacles are your obstacles.

And having a bunch of brilliant strategists who are too busy arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin to devise a proper battle plan is a serious obstacle.

If I could think of something to say so obnoxious that Originalist and CaseyJones came here and worked together to tear me a new one, I'd do it. And I'd wear my new, redundant exhaust chute with pride, too.

Brian4Liberty
11-20-2014, 03:26 PM
;)

3410

limequat
11-20-2014, 03:33 PM
^^^ No shit.

When I start this thread, I was thinking something like put Baby Bou's blown up face on a billboard in GA so thousands of people can see what a police state looks like. Chip-in to raise funds, contact the billboard company, make it happen. There doesn't need to be big egos here. Just a method to pool money for projects that people support.

Project X: Buy a billboard with Baby Bou's face on it, chip in <here>
Project Y: Organize a protest over cause A in city B, chip in <here>
...
Project N:

I'll circle back when I'm feeling more ambitious.

osan
11-20-2014, 04:27 PM
Casey did have a point, though. If the wise heads can't pull those heads in out of the clouds long enough to issue some marching orders, then the men of action have the right by default to go do something even if it's wrong.

Just last night, after the conclusion of my fourth really bad day in a row - my dog Hercules disappeared Sunday, but reappeared early this morning, thank God - I was about to post a thermonuke message of a similar timbre.

I appreciate the exchanges we have here, but at some point we need to put ribber on the road. This shit is NOT going to fix itself. I would also note that talking and lobbying and protesting is not likely to buy us anything worth the mention. Theye don't give a rat's patootie what you or I want. I know the admins are twitchy about calls for unequivocal material action of a certain nature, and I do not blame them. But it has become very clear to me after 30 years of very careful examination that our only remaining choices appear to be capitulation to the globalist juggernaut, or fighting - and I mean real fighting where people are injured and killed. I do not issue that opinion lightly or with any relish. But the fact is that we have become very lazy, complacent, and willfully ignorant. We have allowed Themme to march into our territories with barely a complaint. We have allowed Themme to alter the landscape of our perception such that thing which would have precipitated a civil war in 1950, pass as perfectly tolerable in 2014. That is not always a bad thing - after all, I doubt too many people opine the lapse of witch burnings. However, it is also not always a good thing either. We are being played like cheap fiddles and are barely responding anymore. This is a terminally bad sign, IMO.

So I can agree with the OP that it behooves us to get some movement afoot. Attract attention, positive AND negative. I believe forcing Theire hands is essential to getting the issues of this land settled without the namby-pamby packaging that never solves anything, but only serves to kick that can down the road one more time. Make no mistake about it: if and when Theye decide to drop the other shoe on us, there will be NOTHING half-baked about it. It will the fist of Stalin in one glove and that of Mao in the other. By then, it will be too late to mount any effective resistance. Remember how appalled everyone gets when they hearken back to the ways in which Hitler was supposed to have responded to failures in immediate, full-faith compliance, or that of the Khmer Rouge? Those will pale in comparison with what stands to be coming down the pike when these bastards decide it is time to spring the trap.

Can't say you have not been warned.

Just so nobody can accuse me of complaining without offering solutions, I offer a first step project: authoring of a document describing and defining the principles of proper human relations. If we have no clear map of what the world should look like, our positive actions can attain no good result, save by wild coincidence. There are many laudable documents out there, but none of them really pull it all together as a clear, complete, and correct gestalt. We have examples from groups like the Shire Society, ISIL, and so forth. There are my rantings at freedomisobvious. But there is no "white paper" or "bible" of proper human relations and I assert that without this there is no hope of attaining and maintaining freedom over the longer term because there will be no universal human standard of such relations. That being absent, people will continue to argue about how people should behave toward each other.

I submit that the authoring of such a tract stands to be the single most important document ever penned by humanity. To FINALLY identify the truly universal tenets of proper human relations in clear, correct, and complete form, devoid of all arbitrary and random nonsense such as we tend to find in religious texts, would represent a truly quantum advance in the "evolution" of the human race. Here I speak of those things that can be established through unbreakable logical instrumentality. It is possible and it is badly needed because if you look around, it is clear that the fundamental human animal is still hopelessly lost among the tortured mazes of concepts that lead them nowhere but to more trouble. Until recently, this was not that great a tragedy when viewed from 50,000 feet. It was a lot of work to kill one's enemies in large numbers. Today, mechanized warfare has made it very easy, and that is a huge problem for the species.

So why not begin at the beginning and get the foundation laid for the future of the human race? Does this not make sense to anyone?

green73
11-20-2014, 08:15 PM
Huh, now I why Origanalist left...

He's a gem that one.

Mani
11-20-2014, 09:24 PM
I submit that the authoring of such a tract stands to be the single most important document ever penned by humanity. To FINALLY identify the truly universal tenets of proper human relations in clear, correct, and complete form, devoid of all arbitrary and random nonsense such as we tend to find in religious texts, would represent a truly quantum advance in the "evolution" of the human race. Here I speak of those things that can be established through unbreakable logical instrumentality. It is possible and it is badly needed because if you look around, it is clear that the fundamental human animal is still hopelessly lost among the tortured mazes of concepts that lead them nowhere but to more trouble. Until recently, this was not that great a tragedy when viewed from 50,000 feet. It was a lot of work to kill one's enemies in large numbers. Today, mechanized warfare has made it very easy, and that is a huge problem for the species.

So why not begin at the beginning and get the foundation laid for the future of the human race? Does this not make sense to anyone?



I know the gov't has pissed all over the constitution, but is there any reason not to try and make it relevant again?

Bryan
11-20-2014, 11:31 PM
This thread makes me sad. Not only did Origanalist leave, but Casey did too. Perhaps its a case study of how things can go wrong when situations escalate. As I said before, Casey is a fine person and has been a great asset for the cause of liberty, the level of activism in the broader community however hasn't sat well with him as he wants to see more focus on it. I completely understand CJ's perspective, but if it's expressed in a way that is viewed poorly, it can lead to escalation as done here.

I can understand why people go-off, it's not something I like to see here, mod or not, but it's also a part of being a human at times. Sometimes members go off here, and when it's done by long standing members it needs to be taken in stride at some level. That's why our guidelines are just that, guidelines, and not hard fast rules. People aren't perfect, they have bad days, we get that. At some points however, it can be good to back away from something before it gets too hot. As well, no one should think that its OK for someone to be banned when there is escalation such as with this thread.

I certainly would like to see both Origanalist and Casey back, but obviously have no real control over that. I did talk to CJ on the phone for a while last week, he is doing good and we're on good terms. Still, this site is bigger than any one person, including myself or even Ron Paul. This site represents the ideas of liberty and as long as it is under good stewardship it will remain a beacon for those who seek a better path for our world. Providing good stewardship is one of my life goals, so I hope to see it thrive.

green73
11-20-2014, 11:45 PM
This thread makes me sad. Not only did Origanalist leave, but Casey did too. Perhaps its a case study of how things can go wrong when situations escalate. As I said before, Casey is a fine person and has been a great asset for the cause of liberty, the level of activism in the broader community however hasn't sat well with him as he wants to see more focus on it. I completely understand CJ's perspective, but if it's expressed in a way that is viewed poorly, it can lead to escalation as done here.

I can understand why people go-off, it's not something I like to see here, mod or not, but it's also a part of being a human at times. Sometimes members go off here, and when it's done by long standing members it needs to be taken in stride at some level. That's why our guidelines are just that, guidelines, and not hard fast rules. People aren't perfect, they have bad days, we get that. At some points however, it can be good to back away from something before it gets too hot. As well, no one should think that its OK for someone to be banned when there is escalation such as with this thread.

I certainly would like to see both Origanalist and Casey back, but obviously have no real control over that. I did talk to CJ on the phone for a while last week, he is doing good and we're on good terms. Still, this site is bigger than any one person, including myself or even Ron Paul. This site represents the ideas of liberty and as long as it is under good stewardship it will remain a beacon for those who seek a better path for our world. Providing good stewardship is one of my life goals, so I hope to see it thrive.

I am as always thankful that this site is in such wise and thoughtful hands.

TheTexan
11-21-2014, 12:13 AM
I offer a first step project: authoring of a document describing and defining the principles of proper human relations. If we have no clear map of what the world should look like, our positive actions can attain no good result, save by wild coincidence. ... To FINALLY identify the truly universal tenets of proper human relations

I don't think there is a universal set of principles of human relations that apply in all cases. Except for one: secession.

Barrex
11-21-2014, 06:48 AM
Well this escalated quickly...

This thread makes me sad. Not only did Origanalist leave, but Casey did too...bla bla bla:D...Providing good stewardship is one of my life goals, so I hope to see it thrive.

PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!

Activist/s that start/s activity should be given full control over his/their activity/thread. If original owners give up then that activity/thread can be given to those who are willing to take it over. Clear ownership, clear responsibility. Why is state such bad owner and entrepreneur? No on is in charge, no one owns it, no one is responsible (or everyone is everything).It is funny that anarchist and libertarians who preach private property = good management are adopting socialist model "owned by everyone=everyone is responsible" when it comes to organizing moneybomby and any other activity. There is no distribution of responsibility. I think this would prevent good activist fighting amongst each others over nothing. Casey and Originalist didnt even wanted to work together. People who organized Ron Paul Festival and are members of this forum didnt do it on this forum... and they should have. Why didnt they? This place was intended for that purpose........... but I have been ranting about this for a while with no effect so there is a chance that I am wrong.

P.s.

Yes I did call you all socialists.

mosquitobite
11-21-2014, 07:34 AM
I agree. In the war for good ideas or good projects, the one with the most support wins. The person who can "sell" their idea is often the one who wins. So there is a place for dissent, but the key is for people to keep it respectful and for the idea's owner to not take it personal. Yes, you may think it is a good idea - so let it be hashed out in a brainstorm and let everyone confirm it is a good idea.

The problem here seems to be there are too many negative Nancy's that won't just give their 2c on why it's a bad idea and move on - they cling to that negativity as if they own the opposing view.

Let the ideas fall where they may and let people support what they want! If I want to donate to a blimp, stop posting every 10 minutes to tell me why I shouldn't. Say your peace and move on. Don't donate and you're out nothing. If I donate, it didn't cost you anything personally. Bring a better idea, but not every idea needs to be pitted against another competing idea. It just gets us where we are - NOTHING happens.

willwash
11-21-2014, 08:14 AM
I vote for CPS defense as a primary focus.

Thoughts?

limequat
11-21-2014, 08:24 AM
I vote for CPS defense as a primary focus.

Thoughts?

If you want it, start it. If people support you, they'll donate. I would donate.


OK, separately...who knows how to start a chip-in???

mosquitobite
11-21-2014, 08:42 AM
I vote for CPS defense as a primary focus.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't be opposed to this idea, but we need a good poster case to take up, I believe.

How can we make big news of one poor family's case?

osan
11-21-2014, 11:39 AM
I know the gov't has pissed all over the constitution, but is there any reason not to try and make it relevant again?

It is certainly a more timid step. I reiterate my assertion that the American Constitution is a weak document. VERY weak in an abundance of places. The very fact that it provides a legal mechanism by which to steal from the people should be a loud and glaring clue.

I will grant that were we to conduct the political business of this nation in the terms of strict constructionism this land would be immeasurably better a place, but we would still be serfs in a manner and degree. Could I live with that? Yes. Were the men in positions of political power well educated, courageous, and wholly resistant to corruption of any sort in the discharge of their official duties, I daresay few people would have legitimate cause for complaint because 99%++ of governmental trespass would simply vanish.

But men are not like that. The are, on average, scumbags. Oh sure, the average man is "nice", but nice does not come even close to cutting it. I'd rather they were impossibly nasty but were also men of integrity who would live by the principles of proper human relations without exception. THEN the land would be a finer place. "Nice" rapidly loses all its value and appeal when such persons give in to the temptations of purse and power. All of a sudden "nice" betrays itself as a flimsily superficial quality upon which no man may reliably depend.

But let us put all that aside. One more flaw of our Constitution lays not in what it contains, but what it does not. It is said the Framers regarded right and wrong to be such blatantly obvious specifications of truth that they bore no explicit mention in their elegant little document. The Constitution may be a fine document for a nation of saints, but it is grossly inadequate in a land populated by mere men. At the very least, I would amend the Constitution to include a formally proven treatise listing the principles of proper human relations. And with that, a dictionary of relevant terms. This is the bare minimum, mind you. It precisely because the Constitution fails to address the basic meanings of the terms used therein and makes no litany of the principles underpinning proper human relations that the vermin of both sides of the aisle are able to pull off their outrageous stunts.

My reason for suggesting the authoring and peer-review of a treatise on proper human relations is precisely because people are generally so deep in ignorance of anything of this nature that it is impossible for them to know when they are being slipped the salami by smiling strangers bearing gifts and promises of free stuff. What is morally acceptable, mandatory, and prohibited is argued any of a thousand different ways and most of those arguments are made based in the most transparently flawed logic imaginable. Much of this is because nearly every issue facing us today has been boiled down to matters of mere opinion. This is precisely where the progressives have enjoyed their most glorious victory over the Individual. All opinions are equally valid, meaning that there is absolutely nothing worthy of a fight. This in turn reduces positive political reality to the realization of the the opinions of those who show the biggest political schlong and the most determined will to use it. IOW, might makes reality, pure and simple.

Some things are not matters of opinion and people need to know not only that this is true, but what those things are and come to an understanding, an appreciation, a respect, a valuation of these things. That respect should drive an attitude of willingness to fight for those things, not for "government's" sake, nor that of the "nation", but for oneself; for the love of one's life, his freedom, and those of his children, family, everyone he loves and values, and even those of his fellows to whom he is a complete stranger.

Without a well developed understanding, respect of, and love for these most basic and universally applicable tenets, no man is likely to be settled in his knowledge of right and wrong as exist in the plane of human affairs. Without that, he has no idea how to proceed - what to accept as tolerable and what to reject.

Unless we begin at the beginning, we doom ourselves and posterity to yet another iteration of the same old shit. People have been doing the EXACT same things for at least 8K years and the results have been perfectly uniform in terms of ultimate dispositions. That qualifies not as just mere insanity, but of a mental affliction of truly staggering monument. Seriously, how can anyone look back up human history and not be utterly abashed by what he sees? Same shit, different generation of dumbasses.

The choice is ours. I'm 57 and God willing I will not last very many more years because, to be honest, this world of endless corruption and stupidity has begun to bore me. I see no fascination in the petty idiocy of the common man and the grandiose stupidity of the government official. Therefore, it makes no difference to me whether those who whom the reins shall fall in a few short years choose freedom or serfdom. I've lived well and long enough to say I can go forward (downward???) now if I must. In another ten years I suspect I will more than ready to go, all else equal. My point is that I have no horse of note in this race. I can go this way or that as I am hopefully approaching my sunset before much longer. But what of the rest of you; the young people here? What of your children and grandchildren? Do you want them to grow up dumber than posts? If not, you'd better get your asses hopping because if you do not, they may grow in to people with just enough intellectual awareness to envy the posts.

The fundamentals are really important. If you trust nothing I ever wrote here or may yet write, at least trust that much as being true. I would not lie about such a thing and all bullshit modesty aside, I am a pretty fucking smart guy who has devoted entirely too much mental effort to this particular issue and have satisfied myself that my thoughts on it are optimally sound.

Set the stage - place the foundation soundly; for without this, the human race is going nowhere but right back into the pit of despair, out of which our generations had the privilege of being yanked from by the presumably well intentioned men who established America as humanity's new hope in escaping from the misery of the perennial tyrant. Well, we are right at the edge of the pit, one foot in and the other on a slick of synthetic motor oil. You need to choose what it is that you want and be clear and honest about it. If it is "freedom", you had damned best get yourself learned up on what the word means in actual practice. Otherwise you are wasting your time.

osan
11-21-2014, 11:44 AM
I don't think there is a universal set of principles of human relations that apply in all cases. Except for one: secession.

Secession is not a primitive. It is a composite, i.e., a complex conceptual structure. It is not a principle of human relations because it is no irreducible.

You will need to do better. Try once more.

osan
11-21-2014, 11:46 AM
I vote for CPS defense as a primary focus.

Thoughts?

Child Protective Services?

Well, I'll admit that it's a novel idea.

jllundqu
11-21-2014, 12:01 PM
I like the idea. Just start a fund, put AF in charge. //

limequat
11-22-2014, 12:55 PM
I started project #1. I encourage anyone to copy this thread and change the title:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?463581-Announcing-RPF-Project-1-Habersham-Co-Police-Shaming-%28Baby-Bou%29

I will be setting up a chip in to buy a billboard in GA to shame the Habersham Police for blowing up an 18 moth old baby.

Anti Federalist
11-22-2014, 01:19 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to this idea, but we need a good poster case to take up, I believe.

How can we make big news of one poor family's case?

Well, it seems to be just a matter of picking one.

One where the abuse is clear, where there is no ambiguity to sap sympathy for the victim of the state.

tangent4ronpaul
11-23-2014, 04:39 AM
I'm surprised I missed this thread till now (but happy I missed the in-fighting and drama) :D

Here is my recommendation for establishing and managing a slush fund:

First off, fundraising:
Bryan - would you be willing to donate one banner ad with all revenue from that going into the slush fund.
Secondly, many sites have a special sub-forum for paid members. In order to keep out provocateurs, have some hard requirements:
You must have joined before RP ended his second campaign cycle.
You must not have a pathetic post count.
You must have a decent rep score.
That's for an invite.
So maybe access to said private sub-forum and perhaps unlimited PM space or something.

Twice a year, $25 in dues are required. You can donate more, but you don't get more votes. Broken down:
$15 goes to the slush fund.
$5 buys you 5 and no more than 5 votes. If you use a vote, that dollar goes into the slush fund. If you don't use your vote, it goes in the slush fund anyway.
$5 goes fo forum expenses. HD's, Ram, whatever.

If you fail to pay bi-yearly dues, you don't get kicked out but you loose voting privs till you do. Everyone runs into hard times.

When the Judge was running Freedom Watch he had this piece of software where anyone can submit an idea and people can vote the idea up or down once. If enough people vote for an idea, it rises to the top and they did a show on it. I've seen it used on other sites and political campaigns and I think it's free, but don't know the name of it.

About once a month, driven either by an immediate need: ie: flashbanged baby/homeless family or a forum member with the unexpected death of a bread earner, etc. OR if there is not an immediate need, the top 4 voted items using the Judges system get put to a vote and paid members get a single vote for one of the ideas. All votes are secret till they are all in, then a winner is announced. In the event of a tie, there is a run off. The reward is 1/5th of the slush fund total at the beginning of the donor period, or less if all that is not needed. This could be supplemented by voluntary chip ins if needed.

Everyone is going to end up paying for stuff that wasn't their first choice and other times it would go the way you want.

The ancestors/wise owls forum would be for strategy/project planning. After Rand's first run we can open it up to good, new blood that have proven themselves.

What do you think?

-t

helmuth_hubener
02-27-2015, 12:06 PM
bumping for activism Seems a shame that Casey is now banned.

Barrex
02-27-2015, 12:39 PM
Seems a shame that Casey is now banned.

That is why I didnt see him for a while.... Why was he banned? Wasnt he moderator on here?

muzzled dogg
02-27-2015, 12:50 PM
How about a list of causes that could use support?

Let individuals decide which ones they donate to