Indiana cops shatter car window, extract passenger after alleged seatbelt violation [Archive]

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rambone

10-07-2014, 01:02 AM

HAMMOND, IN — After witnessing a motorist allegedly not wearing a seatbelt, police escalated a violent confrontation to the point of shattering a window to extract a passenger when he claimed not to have an ID.

“Oh my God, he’s pulling me over like I robbed a bank,” recalled Lisa Mahone, the driver and alleged seatbelt violator. “The whole situation was just crazy.”

Police drew their guns on the guy when he looked for his ID in his backpack. The passenger expressed reluctance to get out of the vehicle due to the officers’ aggressiveness and mentioned that “People are getting shot by the police.”

After being asked repeatedly for a supervisor, the officer responded: “Look at my shoulder, dumbass. I got bars.”

“You’re going to come out of the car one way or another,” the officer menaced. “You want your kids to see you come out through the window?”

That's when the window was shattered and the electric punishment began. The children were showered with shards of broken glass.

READ MORE: Police shatter car window, extract passenger after alleged seatbelt violation (www.policestateusa.com/2014/jamal-jones/)

http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Jamal-Jones-2.png

CPUd

10-07-2014, 01:31 AM

LOOK AT MY SHOULDER I GOT BARS DUMBASS

Mani

10-07-2014, 02:26 AM

http://www.myfoxcarolinas.com/story/26719562/hammond-family-claims-police-overstepped-their-authority-in-traffic-stop

CHICAGO (FOX 32 News) -

It started as a simple traffic stop and ended with a taser, tears and arrest -- and it was all caught on camera.

A family from Hammond said the video is dramatic evidence of police out of control. But Hammond police said they were left with no choice when one of the passengers refused a simple request.

The moment captured on cellphone video is now at the center of a lawsuit against Hammond police.

"The whole situation was just crazy," said Lisa Mahone.

Mahone, her boyfriend Jamal Jones, and Mahone's two children – 14-year-old Joseph and 7-year-old Janiya -- were driving in Hammond in late September. They were headed to Stroger Hospital in Chicago, where Mahone said doctors had called and said her mother was near death.

"I said 'oh my God, he's pulling me over like I robbed a bank,'" Mahone said.

Hammond police officers pulled Mahone over because she wasn't wearing a seat belt. She said she gave them her license and insurance card, but then things escalated when they asked for her boyfriend's ID.

With her son recording on his cellphone in the backseat, Mahone dialed 911.

"I gave him my license and insurance. I also let him know at the beginning to please hurry up because my mom is about to die," Mahone told 911.

Jones said he didn't have an ID to give to police because he recently got a ticket. When he reached into his book bag in the back seat to get the ticket, police drew their guns.

"I don't know you and I don't know what you're going to do," an officer told Jones. He responded, "That's why I have my windows up. I'm not no harm to you right now. I got my kids in the car and you're drawing your weapon."

Jones told FOX 32 News, "So once the kids were scared, I wasn't gonna get out of the car and leave my kids in the car. He was being so aggressive."

Jones then tried to give the ticket with his ID to police, but they refused to take it. He then asked the officers if they have a supervisor on the scene.

"You all got a white shirt?" Jones said. The officer responded, "Look at my shoulder dumb***. I got bars."

Police then continued to order Jones out of the car.

"You're going to come out of the car one way or another. You want your kids to see you come out through the window?" the officer said.

Mahone then again called 911 for a supervisor to come to the scene.

"I am scared. And the man--pulled a gun out. A gun! Why do my kids have to see that," Mahone told 911.

Three minutes after that call, police took action.

"Ma'am are you going to open the vehicle?" the officer said.

Mahone responded, "Why do you say somebody's not gonna hurt you? People are getting shot by the police--"

Suddenly, police broke open the window and tased Jones. Mahone's daughter began crying in the backseat after being sprayed with glass.

"I was just so sad. It was horrible," said daughter Janiya.

Police charged Jones with resisting law enforcement and refusal to aid an officer. The couple filed a federal lawsuit against Hammond police on Monday, with their attorney Dana Kurtz alleging the video shows officers clearly overstepped their authority.

"They had no probable cause, one, to even ask Jamal to get out of the car, or two, to engage in excessive force in tasering and arresting him," Kurtz said.

In a statement, Hammond police defend the officer's actions:

"The Hammond police officers were at all times acting in the interest of officer safety and in accordance with Indiana law... In general, police officers who make legal traffic stops are allowed to ask passengers inside of a stopped vehicle for identification and to request that they exit a stopped vehicle for the officer's safety without a requirement of reasonable suspicion."

Kurtz responded, "There was absolutely no search, no nothing to suggest there was criminal activity going on. And certainly not anything that would authorize to taser someone and pull them out of the car and shatter glass into the back seat with children present."

One of the officers involved in the confrontation has been involved in two prior excessive force lawsuits, with the City of Hammond making payouts to settle both cases.

Hammond police also said the officers wanted to write Jones a seat-belt ticket as well, which is why they asked for his ID. But Jones said he was wearing his belt and the cops never told him that.

So one of these officers has been harassing and attacking civilians TWO other times, and the CITY (tax payers) had to pay for his abuse...Now it's happening a THIRD TIME!?!?!

Third time he's being sued.

And nothing happens to him. The department releases it's statement...Officer Safety..blah blah blah. And things just continue...

Kudos to the kids for taping the whole thing. Smart kids. Also hopefully they learned valuable lessons.

SeanTX

10-07-2014, 06:27 AM

Ah, the good old "show me some ID!" method of escalating things strikes again. The woman showed her ID; I think in most states a passenger isn't required to present ID unless there is probable cause they committed a crime (of course, none of that matters anymore, the enforcers ARE the law and just do whatever they please).

I'm sure some strongly worded letters of disapproval will make things all better -- or an online petition. I think this was on Good Morning America earlier (I was in the shower so could just barely hear it) ; if so, good that it's getting some attention in mainstream news at least.

Anti Federalist

10-07-2014, 06:38 AM

I'm sure some strongly worded letters of disapproval will make things all better -- or an online petition. I think this was on Good Morning America earlier (I was in the shower so could just barely hear it) ; if so, good that it's getting some attention in mainstream news at least.
That, and voting harder.

moostraks

10-07-2014, 06:59 AM

fisharmor

10-07-2014, 07:25 AM

The will always carry this memory with them with regards to police. Long term life lesson that's for sure.

D.W.B.
They already knew.

And this is the last media we'll ever see on it.

However, the next time a giant of a man robs a convenience store and ends up dead, or a violent teenager tries to pummel someone's head into the concrete and ends up dead, there will be 25/8 news coverage on every major network for months.

I tell ya, if I was black, I'd have an endless stream of articles pointing out how the tendency to focus on shitheads like Mumia and Trayvon is, bar none, the chief remaining cause of racism in this country.... and it's not something white people are necessarily doing.

Czolgosz

10-07-2014, 08:12 AM

We need to educate people. Harder.

presence

10-07-2014, 08:13 AM

I can hear the voice but I don't want to listen
Strap me down and tell me I'll be alright

oyarde

10-07-2014, 09:27 AM

I never drive in that area.It is dangerous.

JK/SEA

10-07-2014, 10:08 AM

We need to educate people. Harder.

i don't know if we have to educate anyone, the stasi are doing that on their own, one tazer and beating and shooting at a time..

''hi, ima cop, and ima dumb fuck, so watch out''....

mosquitobite

10-07-2014, 10:22 AM

Everyone should have an app on their smart phone to record instances like this. Livestream.

SeanTX

10-07-2014, 10:32 AM

Everyone should have an app on their smart phone to record instances like this. Livestream.

As the technology becomes less expensive and better, it should be possible for most people to have an in-car system where you can just hit a button and in real-time record and upload video and audio of any raging Enforcer you may encounter.

Then links to these videos should be posted in local forums -- maybe if enough people start to see them then they will wake up (I know, many people refuse to do that, though I think part of that is "oh, that didn't happen here, things like that don't happen around here").

I'm sure that encounters like this must happen hundreds of times each day -- maybe not as intense, but still abusive and traumatizing for the victims being screamed and cursed at by their "protectors" -- for things like not wearing a seat belt.

jjdoyle

10-07-2014, 11:34 AM

That, and voting harder.

Exactly this. I don't know why we don't see it. Voting harder worked for the Founding Fathers. The people in positions of power are just concerned with our safety. Notice this important line from the department: "The Hammond police officers were at all times acting IN THE INTEREST OF OFFICER SAFETY..."

Last I checked, police officers are "protecting and serving", so that falls directly in line with their actions here. They are one of us. Some just can't see it.

Christian Liberty

10-07-2014, 11:39 AM

i don't know if we have to educate anyone, the stasi are doing that on their own, one tazer and beating and shooting at a time..

''hi, ima cop, and ima dumb fuck, so watch out''....

In my personal experience this isn't true, then again I am at a very conservative college. But in my personal experience most people are clueless to just how bad police are.

ZENemy

10-07-2014, 11:44 AM

I almost never carry ID on me unless I am driving. I would be dumbfounded to be harassed for not having it on me as a passenger. Smart children. The will always carry this memory with them with regards to police. Long term life lesson that's for sure.

I keep my ID IN the car, I do not carry it on me.

Ive been throw to the ground at least once for NOT having ID and I still do not carry it.

CPUd

10-07-2014, 11:45 AM

They will drop the charges, and settle out of court on the other lawsuit. Probably get about $25K out of it to not talk about it anymore.

FindLiberty

10-07-2014, 01:37 PM

Safety belt <> Contempt of cop <> Safety glass <> Taser <> Settlement

I do not like this circus

kahless

10-07-2014, 01:53 PM

Not sure which one tazed and broke the window but if it is the same one that has two prior excessive force lawsuits he is now endangering children. Yet not behind bars and I am guessing probably still allowed to be around kids. So much for CPS.

mac_hine

10-07-2014, 02:01 PM

Nothing new...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgLI5f_5TP8

SeanTX

10-08-2014, 06:20 AM

I saw this story again on GMA just now, and it was on the NBC Nightly News last night. Good that it's getting some attention -- a lot. Meanwhile, far worse cases (complete with even more dramatic video) never make the national news at all.

Deborah K

10-08-2014, 06:38 AM

Keith and stuff

10-08-2014, 09:15 AM

JK/SEA

10-08-2014, 09:22 AM

JK/SEA

10-08-2014, 09:25 AM

KCIndy

10-08-2014, 01:33 PM

Gunny's new sig needs to be read by every American.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?460922-Man-Records-Cops-Lying-amp-Illegally-Searching-His-Car-Threatening-To-Take-His-Newborn-to-CPS&p=5666780&viewfull=1#post5666780

You BET it does! Best I've read in a long, long time. In fact, I believe it's the best ever. Since he was the first to use it, I may have to pay him a franchise fee and lease the rights to it so I can use it myself ;) :D

Anti Federalist

10-08-2014, 02:48 PM

Deborah K

10-08-2014, 03:05 PM

You BET it does! Best I've read in a long, long time. In fact, I believe it's the best ever. Since he was the first to use it, I may have to pay him a franchise fee and lease the rights to it so I can use it myself ;) :D

I'm with ya.

acptulsa

10-08-2014, 03:13 PM

All 49 states that have adult seat belt laws should abolish them!

But but but buttt--the fedgov will take away all the money we paid in Federal Gas Taxes and not give it back!! How will we fix the roads?!

Muh ROOOOOOADS!!....

HOLLYWOOD

10-08-2014, 04:03 PM

Seltbelt laws were written by Auto Insurance companies... Of course they bought and paid for Washington DC to make this enslavement policy nationwide. Insurance companies win, because they can take refuse to pay on bodily injuries if someone injured, didn't wear a seatbelt.

Government loves this too... not only do they receive huge campaign donations from the insurance trust, but they also have a new Revenue generator in writting tickets and confiscating property.

Still reminds me of that Press Junket Dubya W. Bush had on signing the new "Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005''. Bush, " This Act will save American businesses a minimum of $20 Billion per year..."

Dubya just forgot to mention it was drafted and pushed by Banks/Credit Card companies/US Chamber of Fascism... :rolleyes:

It's all US FASCISM today.... the POLICE thugs are to keep the citizens as obedient milk cows to the state.

Keith and stuff

10-08-2014, 04:15 PM

Seltbelt laws were written by Auto Insurance companies...

I've been to hearings to create an adult seat belt law in New Hampshire. Some of the lobbyists included police organizations, AAA, the federal government, national health organizations and auto dealerships. There is a huge coalition out there pushing for seat belt laws. I even saw several some children testify.

Jackie Moon

10-08-2014, 04:49 PM

Being reported on morning local news this morning with partial video on Seattle news stations...

Another violation, another law suit, another settlement, and another day in Amerika dawns....

Makes me wonder how many more people are waking up lately to this shit. Gotta be a few more at least...

Cops are their own worst enemy.

Saw it on the local news here in Portland too. So it was probably aired on local news across the country... which I think has a greater effect than even national news broadcasts.

All 49 states that have adult seat belt laws should abolish them! Adult seat belt laws are designed to give police another way to harass drivers and passengers.

Around 10 years ago a friend brought up that he thought seat belt laws didn't make sense because not wearing a seat belt doesn't put anyone else at risk.

That was the first time I really thought about it and said, "hmm... yeah, why is that a law? Someone not wearing a seat belt can't hurt me so why should I care."

That friend is a cop now.

aGameOfThrones

10-08-2014, 04:56 PM

Cops Who 'Tasered' Man Accused of Excessive Force in the Past

Oct 8, 2014, 5:50 PM

Both of the Hammond, Indiana, police officers videotaped during a recent traffic stop that led to their breaking a car window and firing a stun gun at a passenger have been accused of using excessive force in the past, according to court documents.

In the most recent dispute, Lt. Patrick Vicari smashed the side window and Sgt. Charles Turner used the stun gun on Jamal Jones, the man riding in the front passenger seat, last month after, police said, Jones repeatedly refused to write his name down on a piece of paper and hand it to the officers. When he reached toward the back of the vehicle -- which, according to a lawsuit he filed this week, he did to retrieve a ticket that proved his identity -- he "was Tasered," the police report states.

Jones Monday sued Vicari, Turner, the City of Hammond and any other officers who were involved in the incident.

Vicari has been involved in three prior cases and Turner in a separate one in which they were accused of using excessive force, among other accusations. Each of the cases was settled before trial without either of the officers admitting wrongdoing, according to court records.

"Why is it that he's still there? said Yolanda Gray, who alleges in one of the three cases that Vicari tackled her to the ground in 2006 while looking for suspected criminals in her neighborhood. "Why is it that he has been promoted? Why is it that this is still going on?"

Police had surrounded Gray and her family's car and drew weapons because they were searching for suspects involved in a crime unrelated to the Grays, she told ABC News. When they were stopped by police, Gray and her family were just 200 yards from their home.

The police report states that officers stopped the vehicle after they noticed that neither the female driver, later identified as Jones' girlfriend, Lisa Mahone, nor Jones was wearing a seat belt.

When the officers approached the vehicle, according to the police report, Mahone showed her ID and car insurance but Jones didn't have any identification and allegedly refused repeatedly to write his name on a piece of paper. That contradicts the lawsuit, which claims that Jones "offered to write his information down for the officers, but the officers refused."

That isn't the only point of difference between the two documents, with the lawsuit alleging that the police also put spike strips under Mahone's car wheels and the police were "highly aggressive and placed Plaintiffs in fear for their safety."

The police report makes no mention of the strips, though the statement released by the Hammond Police Department in response to the lawsuit does say that an officer at the scene told Mahone about the strips.

"Vicari and Turner had no reasonable basis to believe that Jamal had committed any crime," the lawsuit states.

The Hammond Police Department has so far declined to release transcripts or recordings of Mahone's 911 calls or copies of a videotape taken from a camera mounted in one of the police cars at the scene.

Thomas McDermott, the mayor of Hammond, told the Northwest Indiana Times that he has seen portions of that videotape and says it shows Mahone attempting to flee the scene in the car. "She ran into a stop stick [or strips]," McDermott told the paper.

"If she would have kept going, it would have popped her tires. They were going to flee. They had no respect for the police officers at all. We have video of it."

The Hammond Police Department released a two-page statement reiterating much of the officers' report and standing by their actions.

"The Hammond Police officers were at all times acting in the interest of officer safety and in accordance with Indiana law," the statement said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/indiana-cops-tasered-man-accused-excessive-force-past/story?id=26051579

sam1952

10-08-2014, 05:05 PM

Didn't some guy just get shot recently trying to get his I.D. to show when asked for it? Kinda a lose lose situation sometimes.

Spikender

10-09-2014, 12:10 AM

My coworkers and I were watching this yesterday morning.

Their response delighted me. I'm seeing even some of my coworkers who are traditionally pro-cop starting to wake up a bit.

Mani

10-09-2014, 01:00 AM

All 49 states that have adult seat belt laws should abolish them! Adult seat belt laws are designed to give police another way to harass drivers and passengers. New Hampshire never created adult seat belt laws. Heck, NH still has old signs up saying that even children don't have to legally wear seat belts. This is partly why free staters worked so hard to stop Obama's push to create an adult seat belt law in NH in 2009. Take your bribe money and go F yourself Mr. President! We will never have seat belt laws in NH!

When I was in driving school 20+ years ago, I remember my driver's ed teacher told me that mandatory seatbelt laws were going into effect but it was a NON pull over offense (don't remember the correct terminology). They can't pull you over for a seatbelt violation. You would need pulled over for something else, and then they could tack on the seatbelt violation.

That was 20+ years ago, so either the law changed, or cops routinely pull people over for bogus reasons when in reality it's for a seatbelt violation.

Mani

10-09-2014, 01:02 AM

Didn't some guy just get shot recently trying to get his I.D. to show when asked for it? Kinda a lose lose situation sometimes.

"Show me your ID!".....goes to get his ID....."GET OUT OF THE CAR!!!" BLAM BLAM BLAM!! Dude gets shot within 8 seconds (edit 5 seconds) of encountering an officer, for being compliant and following orders. But not following conflicting orders at the same time....

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/cop-asks-for-mans-license-shoots-him-when-he-reaches-for-it/380775/

Jackie Moon

10-09-2014, 01:41 AM

When I was in driving school 20+ years ago, I remember my driver's ed teacher told me that mandatory seatbelt laws were going into effect but it was a NON pull over offense (don't remember the correct terminology). They can't pull you over for a seatbelt violation. You would need pulled over for something else, and then they could tack on the seatbelt violation.

That was 20+ years ago, so either the law changed, or cops routinely pull people over for bogus reasons when in reality it's for a seatbelt violation.

As much as it looks like a parody... this is a real commercial from the DOT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyx9ojyWLao

Mani

10-09-2014, 01:48 AM

Well it looks like in 2009 some of the states starting changing things around and it went from a "secondary enforcement" to "primary enforcement". (Secondary enforcement you could wave at them and point to your unbuckled self and they couldn't do anything).

I didn't know that law changed:

Florida: http://www.ungerandkowitt.com/traffic-ticket-blog/bid/138530/Can-You-Get-Pulled-Over-For-Not-Wearing-A-Seat-Belt

Wisconsin it also changed in 2009: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/vehicle/seatbelt/law.htm

Here's the study done in WI that helped push to change the law: http://uwphi.pophealth.wisc.edu/publications/issue-briefs/issueBriefv07n01.pdf

(snip)

Other Considerations
Discriminatory Enforcement
The U.S. is somewhat unique in the world
in the establishment of secondary en-
forcement provisions for seatbelt laws.
Secondary enforcement has been enacted
in many states in response to concerns
about the potential for discriminatory
enforcement of primary seatbelt laws.
While there is limited evidence on dis-
criminatory ticketing and the switch from
secondary to primary enforcement of
seatbelt laws, studies conducted in a num-
ber of states and cities in the U.S. have
shown no increases in the proportion of
tickets issued to African Americans and
Hispanics as compared to whites.
14,15, 16,
Further, lower seatbelt use among His-
panics and African Americans as com-
pared to whites has been observed in a
number of studies and has led to in-
creased calls for effo
rts to address these
disparities, including the implementation
of primary enforcement laws.
17, 15

(snip)

(So you're saying this law won't have any negative affect on minorities getting pulled over.....Right? Persons who wrote this article 8 years ago please watch above video...)

Personal Freedom
Consideration of seatbelt and other safety
laws often raises debate over the potential
for such laws to infringe on the freedom
of individuals to make decisions about
their own safety.
This is a long-standing philosophical de-
bate that cannot be addressed exclusively
with empirical evidence. However, pub-
lic policies are often made by weighing
the cost in loss of individual freedoms
against the potential benefit of the policy
to the community as a whole. In this
case, a switch to primary enforcement has
the potential to benefit the community as
a whole by reducing crash-related injuries
and deaths and their associated costs.
The majority of Americans appear willing
to accept this trade-off of personal liber-
ties in exchange for increased benefits to
the community. A Louis Harris Poll con-
ducted for Advocates for Highway and
Auto Safety in May, 2004, showed strong
support among the American public for
improving highway safety through public
policy interventions, with 80% supporting
primary enforcement seatbelt laws.
1

(snip)

(Oh yes, the whole...IF IT KEEPS US SAFE....argument....)

(It's always about the money.....)

"One-Time Federal Grants for Conversion
to Primary Enforcement"
In 2005, the federal government passed
transportation legislation that provides
one-time grants to states as an incentive to
encourage the passage of primary en-
forcement seatbelt laws. These grants
were set at 4.75 times a state’s annual
highway safety allocation, and would
provide for a one-time sum of approxi-
mately 15 million dollars for Wisconsin if
a primary enforcement law were adopted.

(So just SHOW ME THE MONEY. That's how they got almost the entire country to make seatbelt laws primary enforcement...)

So the morale of the story is.....Some states made seatbelt laws a secondary enforcement law to prevent minorities or others from getting unfairly treated by cops....And then the federal gov't said FREE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And then the states stampeded to get the free money.

CPUd

10-09-2014, 03:16 AM

It's primary enforcement in TN, and they are aggressive about it here, especially the THP.

jmdrake

10-09-2014, 04:01 AM

People laughed at me when I told them 20 plus years ago, that ths is what mandatory seat belt laws would lead to.

And even I was not enough of an agent of doom and gloom to predict cops would be manhandling people onto gurneys and sticking them with needles for their blood at DUI roadblocks.

Land of the free, my aching fucking ass.

I had an argument with a friend about this recently. I said that seatbelt laws were being used for unjustified stops. She agreed, but said the solution was using traffic cameras. :( :mad: http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/nervous/suicidal-smiley-emoticon.gif

KCIndy

10-09-2014, 07:12 AM

gaaah.

I've had it. Seriously.... my head is just about to explode. I can feel my blood pressure spiking.

As I've been driving overnight, I've listened to four or five different news programs cover this event... and....

IF I HEAR ONE MORE - JUST **ONE** MORE WHINY, SYCOPHANTIC BOOTLICKING TOADY UTTER THE WORDS "WELL, THIS JUST SHOWS WHY YOU SHOULD ALWAYS FOLLOW THE ORDERS OF THE POLICE. THEY BROUGHT THIS ON THEMSELVES!" I SWEAR I'M GONNA.... GONNA....

*sigh*

Aw, screw it. I should know better than to expect any sign of backbone from the 90% of the population classifiable as political invertebrates. :mad::mad:

Philhelm

10-09-2014, 07:35 AM

I keep my ID IN the car, I do not carry it on me.

Ive been throw to the ground at least once for NOT having ID and I still do not carry it.

That can get you shot, like the guy that reached for his driver's license after being pulled over for (I believe) a seatbelt violation.

Jackie Moon

10-09-2014, 05:13 PM

So the morale of the story is.....Some states made seatbelt laws a secondary enforcement law to prevent minorities or others from getting unfairly treated by cops....And then the federal gov't said FREE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And then the states stampeded to get the free money.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure these ads were made by the Feds and then each state just puts their own logo on it.

It's interesting that in searching for these I found some older seat belt ads.

The old ads used images of wrecks with a message that you should wear a seat belt for your own safety.

The new ads all focus on the message that you should wear a seat belt because police are everywhere and they will catch you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqVb7GN7kcI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3piuZh6I7mc

And this one is the exact opposite of the way a seat belt stop goes in real life:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8na0eWkID4

Anti Federalist

10-09-2014, 06:09 PM

showed strong
support among the American public for
improving highway safety through public
policy interventions, with 80% supporting
primary enforcement seatbelt laws.

Hate to say it again, but here's where Ron is wrong.

Freedom is not popular.

People do not want freedom.

They hate it, in fact.

And they will actively work against anybody advocating it.

That's not to say you cannot push back against these idiots.

All the states with no motorcycle helmet law, and push back against gun control are two examples.

But it takes some will to do it.