Shockwaves in Stockton as Judge Rules That City Can Sever Pension Obligations

[AuH20]

I thought I'd never see the day. Yes, the beast bleeds. It bleeds!

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/10/01/6752346/calpers-bankruptcy-stockton.html

[jllundqu]

Sucks to be a tax tick in Stockton...

[surf]

CalPERS.... their market influence can't be overstated. boy it'd be nice to slap those bastards upside the head a few times.

it'd be nice if the judge just came out and said it's the effing cops pensions that are truly hindering the ability to keep this thing partially funded.

[Keith and stuff]

Maybe every big city in CA should declare bankruptcy?

[tod evans]

Good! :D

[idiom]

What can't be paid, won't be paid.

[bunklocoempire]

It's only a mistake if you don't learn anything.


“The retirees and the city’s employees have already given taken enough,” said Jason Rios, a lawyer representing retirees in the case.


FIFY J-dog.

Pray for easy lessons.

[GunnyFreedom]

I certainly oppose these guys getting ginormous pensions as much as anybody here, and while I do get some sense of Schadenfreude, a small part of my brain keeps knocking and asking if this stuff was originally under a contract, and if so, it it just OK to willy-nilly ignore contractual obligations?

Like I said, I am not coming at this from the perspective of someone trying to defend these enormous pensions. I think they are utterly indefensible. I'm just wondering if there is some kind of contract obligation being abandoned here.

[Schifference]

Contracts are often broken through bankruptcy.

[GunnyFreedom]

Contracts are often broken through bankruptcy.


Good answer!

[HOLLYWOOD]

Contracts are often broken through bankruptcy.Here's a refresher from the previous buffoon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmSQ9lmEZqU

Exception: If you owe the government... or one of their huge campaign contributors, or even a country, isn't that correct Argentina?

[osan]

I certainly oppose these guys getting ginormous pensions as much as anybody here, and while I do get some sense of Schadenfreude, a small part of my brain keeps knocking and asking if this stuff was originally under a contract, and if so, it it just OK to willy-nilly ignore contractual obligations?

Like I said, I am not coming at this from the perspective of someone trying to defend these enormous pensions. I think they are utterly indefensible. I'm just wondering if there is some kind of contract obligation being abandoned here.

This was the first thing that came to my mind as well. That said, it is a legal fact that any contract whatsoever can be broken.

Besides, contract or no contract, if the obligated party doesn't have the cashola, the beneficiaries get no payola.

[satchelmcqueen]

Here's a refresher from the previous buffoon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmSQ9lmEZqU

Exception: If you owe the government... or one of their huge campaign contributors, or even a country, isn't that correct Argentina?
when i watched this, i was still a sleep after being so pissed at ross perots treatment in the 90s, i went back to sleep. when i heard this speech by dick head bush, i was wondering what the real deal is behind this.

[ClydeCoulter]

Hmm, I wonder if my aunt will be affected? My uncle was head of the maintenance department for the city of Stockton and he retired from there. Now that he passed away just over a year ago, my aunt has been getting some of his retirement from Cal-pers.

Yeah, I guess it sucks to work until retirement and then part of your investment gets dumped.

Contracts can be broken...like the Constitution or like any other word given.

I hope everyone doesn't get everything they have ever worked toward taken and shaken from them.

I guess, on the bright side, in a trillion years, who will give a fuck?

edit: Also, my uncle lost 1/2 million in a portfolio with a company that went bankrupt. So yeah, contracts are broken, and some get away with the goods. But, then again, in a trillion years....

[HOLLYWOOD]

when i watched this, i was still a sleep after being so pissed at ross perots treatment in the 90s, i went back to sleep. when i heard this speech by dick head bush, i was wondering what the real deal is behind this.I cannot find the video, but there's another public propaganda press junket by W Bush on the Bankruptcy 2005 Bill.

In that video, Bush says something like, "This bill holds debtors accountable and will save in losses to corporations over $20 billion each year." That's the same year the GOP House, Senate, & WH, ran up ~ $560 Billion in debt... Which of course, will never be paid back or ever intended to do so. Once again, the 'responsible hypocrite's that contribute to the bankruptcy/default/economic collapse of the nation, long after these charlatans are enriched and gone.

[AuH20]

I wonder if these people truly thought that they would get guaranteed 8-10% for the rest of their lives. You have to be a goddamn idiot to believe that this phony market can produce such a yield. That's why I can't feel sorry for any of these workers. They actively colluded to exploit the system with their gluttonous union representation and bought politicians but they didn't count on the system going insolvent.

[thoughtomator]

Maybe every big city in CA should declare bankruptcy?

They all will, eventually. Should or should not won't enter into it.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

This is so wrong.... Don't people understand that public employees deserve more, and guaranteed everything they could ever want until after they die, as still have to pay the 70 year old wife for 20 years.

I'm so upset it's like they treating them like normal people or something. Unacceptable, I'd appeal.

[ClydeCoulter]

I wonder if these people truly thought that they would get guaranteed 8-10% for the rest of their lives. You have to be a goddamn idiot to believe that this phony market can produce such a yield. That's why I can't feel sorry for any of these workers. They actively colluded to exploit the system with their gluttonous union representation and bought politicians but they didn't count on the system going insolvent.

I wonder if all the idiots out there think they are going to get to keep anything, whether gold, silver, cash or anything in this screwed up world. Hey, they shoot horses, I hear.

[phill4paul]

This was the first thing that came to my mind as well. That said, it is a legal fact that any contract whatsoever can be broken.

Besides, contract or no contract, if the obligated party doesn't have the cashola, the beneficiaries get no payola.

^^^ How I feel regarding this whole "social" contract.

[surf]

I wonder if these people truly thought that they would get guaranteed 8-10% for the rest of their lives. You have to be a goddamn idiot to believe that this phony market can produce such a yield. That's why I can't feel sorry for any of these workers. They actively colluded to exploit the system with their gluttonous union representation and bought politicians but they didn't count on the system going insolvent.
it's not like those return rates are obscene historically - we've grown too familiar with <1% interest rates. that said, I don't disagree with your points other than the ingrained belief that government fund operators are superior - similar to Bernie Madoff.... it's like Madoff w/the same level of auditing.

[osan]

I wonder if these people truly thought that they would get guaranteed 8-10% for the rest of their lives. You have to be a goddamn idiot to believe that this phony market can produce such a yield. That's why I can't feel sorry for any of these workers. They actively colluded to exploit the system with their gluttonous union representation and bought politicians but they didn't count on the system going insolvent.

Of course they thought that. We are talking of MEANERS here... American meaners. The meaner is not only ignorant, but boastfully so. A great plurality of them are actually proud of it. They made their beds, replete with some small number of strategically positioned nails; let them now lie down for the rests they so richly deserve.


I wonder if all the idiots out there think they are going to get to keep anything, whether gold, silver, cash or anything in this screwed up world. Hey, they shoot horses, I hear.

One of the $64 questions, methinks. I am wondering whether, in the event Bammy or some other government stooge announces the pending confiscation of precious metals and/or other assets people tend to hold dearly, whether that would precipitate a shooting war of greater or lesser proportions I remain in my state of fidgety piquedness to finally see from what Americans are made today. My money is on "mush", but my hopes are on "steel".

[Root]

Stockton retirees called the decision a slap in the face. “Employees operated in good faith,” said Anthony Delgado, a retired Stockton police officer who attended the hearing. “Retirees and active employees could be left holding the bag. It goes against every fiber of my being.”

I have zero sympathy for these people. They chose to work for an institution that has a long history of lying, manipulation, theft and violence towards others. Now they are shocked that's it happened to them.

[AuH20]

I have zero sympathy for these people. They chose to work for an institution that has a long history of lying, manipulation, theft and violence towards others. Now they are shocked that's it happened to them.

what goes around, comes around. It may take a long time, but you always have to keep an eye out for that boomerang.

[HOLLYWOOD]

The biggest problem is a government PONZI PENSION. Instead of giving a discount today when you invest your retirement every paycheck, the colluding clowns in government management and government unions conspire to reward themselves now with well above salaries and benefits, as well as provide inaccurate or downright false projections on incoming revenues and growth to justify their elite future retirement/benefits packages. This is the fraud conducted by most government organizations today, whether it be; City, County, State, or Federal... all these unfunded liabilities, which the political clowns collude today, approving it all, are all long gone 20 years down the road when the retirement/benefits PYRAMID scheme collapses and emergency actions are propagandized to steal more from the individual or unsuspecting public.

Of course you have other schemes of government, like borrowing against the individual/people's Social Security to enrich their own careers and falsely support their constituents now, for someone else to pay from the borrowing later down the road.

A look at the private sector...

Then there's the private sector... an entirely different animal between corporate and oligarch powers that conclude with their government pals in all 3 branches... whether it be bankruptcy courts, corporate welfare, corporate write-offs, bailouts, rebates, reduced expense, or the unions, it's all a scam. I'm currently watching that Billionaire welfare queen Donald Trump and his casinos in New Jersey. He's going to court to kill the employees pension deals through bankruptcy proceedings while doing a refi, and seeking favors from the rigged courts and NJ politicians. He's also seeking reduced taxes on earning/revenues, as well as property taxes, etc... not a bad thing, but it is he that seeks the welfare at the expense of the public in his left hand, while he's building his taxpayer subsidized golf resorts and hotels in other states out of his right hand. Today is "D-Day" for a judge to rule on Trump's PLAZA and Taj Mahal, et al casinos, employee pensions, benefits, and the corporate welfare raiding bondholders like Carl Icahn in Atlantic City.

Frankly why is a judge getting involved in a contract between Trump and the employees? It's Trump that wanting the 'bought & paid for' government clowns in gowns to dictate which contracts can be broken? It appears the privileged and ruling class want to dictate the risk and stick someone else with the problem.