PDA

View Full Version : Ron Paul Blimp Email




Primbs
12-02-2007, 08:27 PM
RonPaulBlimp.com

///////////////////////////////////////////
A blimp? A blimp! :-)

Posted: 02 Dec 2007 06:32 PM CST
http://ronpaulblimp50.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/a-blimp-a-blimp/




Lets make the dream of the blimp a reality.

We NEED your sponsorship now!

The Ron Paul Blimp has captured our imaginations and gone viral in the blogosphere now lets take it to the skies! The inaugural launch will be at Elizabeth City, North Carolina on December 10th, 2007. Blimp graphics are being printed at this very moment, soon they will be soaring across America. Please make this dream a reality by going to http://www.RonPaulBlimp.com and sponsoring the Ron Paul Blimp Tour now.

We will not be forming a PAC (Political Action Committee) as discussed originally. Under a PAC donation contributions to the blimp would count towards the official campaign. For example, if a person contributed $100 towards the PAC then they would only be able to contribute $2,200 to the official campaign. Forming a PAC would also be a FEC legal nightmare due to regulations and restrictions. Click here for more information.

We created a plan that allows all of you to buy as much blimp as you want without having it count towards your current campaign contributions. Former chairman of the FEC, Brad Smith, one of the top U.S. election lawyers, has reviewed this plan. This updated legal arrangement offers the best of both worlds, no limits and virtually no regulations.

Think of the blimp as a giant floating billboard in the sky. You get to sponsor the message on that flying billboard in time slots. When your time is up the next sponsor in line gets to buy the message again.

Purchases of $5,000 or more come with 3 days of blimp flight time. You are welcome and encouraged to offer up any part of this time to the main stream media and/or local press to maximize the coverage of your paid message.

Get the Ron Paul Blimp to the Boston Tea Party by December 16th, 2007. Send the Ron Paul message to millions of people, NOW! Make your sponsorship at RonPaulBlimp.com.


Support the www.ronpaulblimp.com

alexpasch
12-02-2007, 08:28 PM
Nice to see the purchases of 5k come with 3 days blimp time.

What I want to see is a budget though...

alexpasch
12-02-2007, 08:30 PM
nevermind...they have one...yay!

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 08:31 PM
Trevor/Elijah to be paid $50,000/year each?

Staff

To get your message across with as much media attention as possible we need staff to alert the media in a coordinated fashion. To make sure the rallies are well organized.

Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen and had orginal concept for a Ron Paul Blimp in mid-June. Trevor will conduct most interviews with the press.
$900 week
Elijah Lynn - Individual who got momentum for this project going and made arrangements with fellow Ron Paul supporter.
$900 week
Jerry Collette - Paralegal and Manager
$1,000
Videographer 1 - Videographer 1 will be in the blimp filming the passengers or in other aircraft taping the blimp with the passengers in it. When not in the air they will also be taping another perspective.
$750 week
Videographer 2 - Videographer 2 will be on the ground filming all of the rallies and the aerial displays.
$750 week
Bryce - Company Media Coordinator
$1,000 week
Joe Amidon - Assistant Manager
$1,000
Joel Lemieux - On Location Media Coordinator
Voumteer - Expenses paid
Katherine
Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses

Outside Legal

Brad Smith - Former FEC chairman and one of the leading election lawyers in the country.

$10,000 retainer
$500 hour
Jim Fosbinder - Our first amendment attorney who will fight for our right to fly in restricted airspace. Whether we win or lose we will be making the headlines and getting major media attention.
$100 hour
Room and Board for those of us who will travel with the blimp to make sure we get as much mainstream media attention as possible. We need individuals with the blimp at all times to coordinate the rides and attract even more attention. We plan on having rallies with as much as 10,000 people.
Up to $100 per person per day

steph3n
12-02-2007, 08:33 PM
I'd recommend clicking the link given as it has links to the new transparency page

OptionsTrader
12-02-2007, 08:33 PM
If they start a pinksheets company, and sell stock BLMP.PK, I think I may throw up a little.

rrroae
12-02-2007, 08:35 PM
Well they did what we asked and I for one couldn't be more pleased with what I see.
The numbers look very reasonable and no one can question expenditures now.

Ilhaguru
12-02-2007, 08:36 PM
Nice, I hope to see donations grow substantially.


From Goodyearblimp.com:

"

What does Goodyear get in return for such an investment in the blimps?

The end result is corporate-name recognition and goodwill. Independent research has demonstrated that people are excited by seeing the blimp and are able to remember exactly when and where they saw it. Over sixty million Americans get a first-hand look at the three U.S. blimps every year, and millions more see the airships in South America and throughout the world via global network connections. The Goodyear blimps may be the best-known corporation symbol in the United States.

"
http://www.goodyearblimp.com/faqs/faqs_business.html


:)

KewlRonduderules
12-02-2007, 08:37 PM
I think this sounds pretty fair.

McDermit
12-02-2007, 08:41 PM
Haha. their salaries just increased by $100/week.

Staff

To get your message across with as much media attention as possible we need staff to alert the media in a coordinated fashion. To make sure the rallies are well organized.


Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen and had orginal concept for a Ron Paul Blimp in mid-June. Trevor will conduct most interviews with the press.

$1,000/week

Elijah Lynn - Individual who got momentum for this project going and made arrangements with fellow Ron Paul supporter.

$1,000/week
Jerry Collette - Paralegal and Manager
$1,000/week
Videographer 1 - Videographer 1 will be in the blimp filming the passengers or in other aircraft taping the blimp with the passengers in it. When not in the air they will also be taping another perspective.

$1,000/week

Videographer 2 - Videographer 2 will be on the ground filming all of the rallies and the aerial displays.

$1,000/week
Bryce Henderson- Company Media Coordinator
$1,000/week

Joe Amidon - Assistant Manager
$1,000/week
Joel Lemieux - On Location Media Coordinator
Volunteer - Expenses paid

Katherine
Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses

llamabread
12-02-2007, 08:42 PM
nevermind...they have one...yay!

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php

Where is the link to that on the actual site? I have been looking for ten minutes and can't find it! :mad: :confused: :o

McDermit
12-02-2007, 08:42 PM
Videographers just got a $250/wk raise too.

synthetic
12-02-2007, 08:43 PM
If they start a pinksheets company, and sell stock BLMP.PK, I think I may throw up a little.

Don't give them any ideas. They're probably changing the LLC to a corporation so they can launch an IPO now.

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 08:44 PM
Haha. their salaries just increased by $100/week.

Staff

To get your message across with as much media attention as possible we need staff to alert the media in a coordinated fashion. To make sure the rallies are well organized.


Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen and had orginal concept for a Ron Paul Blimp in mid-June. Trevor will conduct most interviews with the press.

$1,000/week

Elijah Lynn - Individual who got momentum for this project going and made arrangements with fellow Ron Paul supporter.

$1,000/week
Jerry Collette - Paralegal and Manager
$1,000/week
Videographer 1 - Videographer 1 will be in the blimp filming the passengers or in other aircraft taping the blimp with the passengers in it. When not in the air they will also be taping another perspective.

$1,000/week

Videographer 2 - Videographer 2 will be on the ground filming all of the rallies and the aerial displays.

$1,000/week
Bryce Henderson- Company Media Coordinator
$1,000/week

Joe Amidon - Assistant Manager
$1,000/week
Joel Lemieux - On Location Media Coordinator
Volunteer - Expenses paid

Katherine
Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses

LOL...so they did. So they did.

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 08:45 PM
Where is the link to that on the actual site? I have been looking for ten minutes and can't find it! :mad: :confused: :o

home---->click here for more information--->disclosure page

Mental Dribble
12-02-2007, 08:47 PM
What exactly are we paying for?
Disclosure/Transparency Page

You are paying for your message to be blasted across the airwaves, for it to be talked about by everyone. As part of your sponsorship we are including the following in the overall total cost. Our goal is to create the largest impact possible on local, national and global media. In order to do this we need to have people who are accountable for certain aspects and we need volunteers to help along the way


Skyship 600 monthly lease (normally a 6 month minimum is required but Airship Management Services gave us a break!)
$350,000

Skyship 600 Decals - Originally a banner was included but banner material was out of stock

$25,000 (normally $50,000-$100,000 but Airship Management Services gave us a discount)
Press Kits - We want to make a memorable impact on the press and give them something to remember their blimp ride, therefore we will be giving them a press kit consisting of.

Mylar Blimp Balloon, "Ron Paul Airforce" hat, "Ron Paul Airforce" T-shirt
$25
"Ron Paul Airforce Official crew" fleece jackets for the Blimp crew x 35 jackets
$30 each x $35 = Approx. $1,050

Streaming video cameras and 3G EVDO to WiFi wireless internet to stream the video. This journey should be available to everyone who wants to see it so we are goint to attempt to bridge some wireless internet cards and provide a quality signal to upload streaming video to the website.
Wirless internet device and installation
Possibly being donated by OC2 Secure Wireless
Otherwise up to $5,000 for a connection made up of bridged wireless cards.

High Quality WiFi Cameras
$1,000 each

GPS tracking system to track the current location of the blimp.
$50 month

Dedicated Web server
This server will host the website and stream the video from the onboard cameras LIVE!

It will also provide a map with realtime gps coordinates of the blimp
$150 month
Videographer equipment
HD Tape
$200-$1000 month

Airfare to fly lawyers in and out and other individuals who are key to making this work, as well as back home for holidays or family emergency's.
To be determined

Food for staff and volunteers who come along to help
To be determined by number of volunteers

Room and Board for those of us who will travel with the blimp to make sure we get as much mainstream media attention as possible. We need individuals with the blimp at all times to coordinate the rides and attract even more attention. We plan on having rallies with as much as 10,000 people. We will often be bunking on cots in the hangers at air fields where the blimp will be based along the tour. We have no plans for expensive hotels.
Cost To be determined - we do not yet know how much it will cost to rent the airpot hangers out
Staff

To get your message across with as much media attention as possible we need staff to alert the media in a coordinated fashion. To make sure the rallies are well organized.


Trevor Lyman - The man who made the This November 5th money bomb happen and had orginal concept for a Ron Paul Blimp in mid-June. Trevor will conduct most interviews with the press.

$1,000/week

Elijah Lynn - Individual who got momentum for this project going and made arrangements with fellow Ron Paul supporter.

$1,000/week
Jerry Collette - Paralegal and Manager
$1,000/week
Videographer 1 - Videographer 1 will be in the blimp filming the passengers or in other aircraft taping the blimp with the passengers in it. When not in the air they will also be taping another perspective.

$1,000/week

Videographer 2 - Videographer 2 will be on the ground filming all of the rallies and the aerial displays.

$1,000/week
Bryce Henderson- Company Media Coordinator
$1,000/week

Joe Amidon - Assistant Manager
$1,000/week
Joel Lemieux - On Location Media Coordinator
Volunteer - Expenses paid

Katherine
Volunteer - Fill Time - No expenses

Outside Legal
Brad Smith - Former FEC chairman and one of the leading election lawyers in the country.

$10,000 retainer
$500 hour
Jim Fosbinder - Our first amendment attorney who will fight for our right to fly in restricted airspace. Whether we win or lose we will be making the headlines and getting major media attention.

$100 hour

rrroae
12-02-2007, 08:48 PM
Videographers just got a $250/wk raise too.

I see that Elijah and Trevor just got a $100 a week raise as well.

You'd think they would have double checked their numbers before posting .

fletcher
12-02-2007, 08:49 PM
LOL. Everyone gets paid $50,000 a year. The blimp is a moneymaking scam.

McDermit
12-02-2007, 08:49 PM
Jokes are supposed to be funny. This one isn't.

Jagwarr
12-02-2007, 08:50 PM
I sent an email explaining that I will not be donating and to remove me thier email list. There are people up in NH right now giving thier time for free and these guys want $1K per week? I'm not going to be sheeped.

Mental Dribble
12-02-2007, 08:53 PM
I already donated myself... the amount i pledged. $50 bucks. But that does kinda seem like a lot to me (their weekly salary)... for something we are suppose to be working towards to better ourselves and our country.

I think they need to "cut spending". Show a true reflection of Ron Paul principles... hmmm this is tough for me though because I want it to fly so bad. I think this may be an example of some of the limits grass root support has... no centralized control makes it harder to be unified. But still, worth it.

cien750hp
12-02-2007, 08:54 PM
i think 750 a week would be reasonable

Paulitical Correctness
12-02-2007, 08:56 PM
I think more research should've been done before allowing the site and idea to go live.

The initial $350,000 is now more like 600k+

Regardless of intentions here, it does seem awful fishy. :(

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 08:59 PM
I sent an email explaining that I will not be donating and to remove me thier email list. There are people up in NH right now giving thier time for free and these guys want $1K per week? I'm not going to be sheeped.

+1
too bad i already donated...i mean bought advertising space...i mean a timeshare...
Too bad about that no refund policy. I think I will see if they will refund my money regardless.

I would also like to voice another concern. I am wondering if Trevor is spreading himself too thin with the blimp and the TeaParty. Maybe someone else should take over the TeaParty website (not me, that's for sure) as I think there has been some concern about the Teaparty website not being updated often enough.

Also, I am uncomfortable with Trevor having all of this real or perceived power when it comes to the grassroots. This is merely my personal opinion but I think our strength is in that we have no leader. And I liked it that way.

I would rather see "TeaParty Money Bomb a huge success and the mastermind behind it is yet another unknown" RATER THAN "Trevor does it again".

I just don't like how this seems to be turning into the "Trevor Show"

That's all. I'm glad they sent out some additional information.

Doriath
12-02-2007, 08:59 PM
i think 750 a week would be reasonable

It'll be about that, probably a bit less, after taxes.

Median annual household income in the US last year was a bit over $48k...we're talking about $52k for these guys. I don't see anyone getting rich on this.

noumenon
12-02-2007, 09:00 PM
I support the Ron Paul Blimp.
I think that going through with this will have a very positive impact on Ron Paul's campaign and it will catch a TON of attention.
If we fail and people back out, it could have very negative consequences and the media will be all over it.

I don't think they are trying to scam anyone.

ChrisV
12-02-2007, 09:00 PM
Can I get $1000 a week also? I voted in the poll when this whole thing was getting started.

constituent
12-02-2007, 09:00 PM
i'm sorry everyone, i want to remain neutral.... but this is getting ugly.

please, just stop. or someone start up a new blimp project, or something.... but damn, please at the very least start a ronpaulblimp forum or something... please,


really, this is ugly.

eric_cartman
12-02-2007, 09:01 PM
Questions:

1) Is the goal still to get the blimp to Boston in time for the tea party?

2) How much money needs to be collected to get the blimp off the ground? 350K? 500K?

3) By what date do we have to have this money collected by to have the blimp in Boston by the 16th?

4) If not enough money can be raised to get the blimp off the ground, either in time for the tea party, or ever... will people get a refund? will salaries to the blimp team still be paid?

5) Finance:

Total salaries for 1 week (7 people) = $6300
Total salaries for 1 month (7 people) = $25,200

Total Donated So Far = $25,950

6) After a few days of donations, we've raised enough to pay the staff, but nothing towards the blimp so far. Is it realistic to think we can get the blimp in Boston in time for the Tea Party?

7) If we can't get the blimp to Boston for the tea party, do we want a blimp?

In my opinion, i don't think you will raise the 350K + required to get the blimp off the ground, especially with 25K going down the drain every month. Though i totally support the idea, I am concerned that you will not get enough donation money in time to get the blimp to the tea party, and Ron Paul supporters will lose all or a portion of their donation to administrative costs, salaries for the blimp team, equipment that may never be used, etc.

Also, please provide a total cost breakdown for the blimp project. How much does it cost to fly the blimp for 1 month? Thank you for providing the salaries for the 7 people, but what about other costs? room + board, video equipment, flight suit jackets, spotlights, etc. Just a total cost breakdown of everything.

I would 100% support this project if it was agreed to give a 100% (or at least 95% +) refund of the donation if the blimp does not get to boston for the tea party or never flies for 1 month.

I think the blimp idea is great, but is only really practical and beneficial if we get it to the tea party. I think you should consider a cheaper alternative such as hot air balloons with giant ron paul signs attached or another suggested cheaper alternative advertising campaign in boston for the day.

if you can raise the .5 million per month... that would be great. i don't think you will be able too, but i might be wrong. I think a lot of the $5000 donations
pledges were pranks, and i know several supporters have dropped out because they don't like the 'who is ron paul' side or the for profit company. I am simply concerned that on the possibility that you fail, and don't raise enough money to ever have a blimp fly around the country... are ron paul supporters going to get a refund? If not, i'm not sure that's a risk many people want to be taking.

Chibioz
12-02-2007, 09:05 PM
I've tried to be pretty supportive of this, but I don't see why they need to pay themselves so much for this. That was not the purpose of the project, I can understand maybe needing enough to subsist if they were spending all of their time on this but I didn't sign on to give these people a new job, their mission is pretty simple and straightforward. I already donated $100, this is the grassroots and we are VOLUNTEERS.. I'm pretty disappointed with them giving themselves $50k/year jobs at our expense..

WachterZ
12-02-2007, 09:06 PM
I appreciate that you all are spending your time on this, but when so many others are doing just as much for free (like the RP riders, and all the folks flocking to NH!), so in my opinion those salaries are NOT justifiable (which is why I'm no longer donating to this project).

jcims
12-02-2007, 09:07 PM
Folks, consultants typically bill $1000 per DAY to do work. Many of the folks posting here would be taking a pay CUT at $1000 per week. These guys are going to be on the road, having to live on fast food and hotels, to get this message out. If i had to say anything, it would be that the staffing is too deep, but you can't honestly tell me that these guys are being absurd with the base salary.

Mental Dribble
12-02-2007, 09:09 PM
I just looked at it monthly.

With all of their salaries at a total of $28,000 for a month I guess thats not too bad. If they can bring in enough support to blow dec 16th out of the water it could be amazing. $378,000.00 isn't really that much more then the orginial amount asked.

It does cost money to make these things run. Being Disconnected from the hands on side of this makes it hard to get a grib on , but I am behind it!

I donated. I think its the right choice.

(P.S maybe they could cut their salaries just a little as a sign they are listening to our opinions and trying hard to make this work)

steph3n
12-02-2007, 09:10 PM
Folks, consultants typically bill $1000 per DAY to do work. Many of the folks posting here would be taking a pay CUT at $1000 per week. These guys are going to be on the road, having to live on fast food and hotels, to get this message out. If i had to say anything, it would be that the staffing is too deep, but you can't honestly tell me that these guys are being absurd with the base salary.

I guess mostly I'd question the media consultant, can we see any work that is/has been done?

Videographers, i think they should make this open to a our grassroots. :)

dcatman
12-02-2007, 09:11 PM
Folks, consultants typically bill $1000 per DAY to do work. Many of the folks posting here would be taking a pay CUT at $1000 per week. These guys are going to be on the road, having to live on fast food and hotels, to get this message out. If i had to say anything, it would be that the staffing is too deep, but you can't honestly tell me that these guys are being absurd with the base salary.

I bill $90/hr or $720/day for my steady work and 125+ an hour for my short term clients... $1000/week is nothing compared to that.

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 09:12 PM
I just looked at it monthly.

With all of their salaries at a total of $28,000 for a month I guess thats not too bad. If they can bring in enough support to blow dec 16th out of the water it could be amazing. $378,000.00 isn't really that much more then the orginial amount asked.

It does cost money to make these things run. Being Disconnected from the hands on side of this makes it hard to get a grib on , but I am behind it!

I donated. I think its the right choice.

(P.S maybe they could cut their salaries just a little as a sign they are listening to our opinions and trying hard to make this work)

this is a good point. I am behind the blimp idea as well. I hope they lower their salaries as a sign of good will.

McDermit
12-02-2007, 09:12 PM
Folks, consultants typically bill $1000 per DAY to do work. Many of the folks posting here would be taking a pay CUT at $1000 per week. These guys are going to be on the road, having to live on fast food and hotels, to get this message out. If i had to say anything, it would be that the staffing is too deep, but you can't honestly tell me that these guys are being absurd with the base salary.

Consultants have the experience and qualifications to be able to demand such salaries. These guys don't. Come on... a locksmith and a web designer who's only half a step above amateur?

jcims
12-02-2007, 09:12 PM
I appreciate that you all are spending your time on this, but when so many others are doing just as much for free (like the RP riders, and all the folks flocking to NH!), those salaries are NOT justifiable.

Where are the capable volunteers stepping up to do the work?

constituent
12-02-2007, 09:13 PM
1) $25,000 (normally $50,000-$100,000 but Airship Management Services gave us a discount)
Press Kits - We want to make a memorable impact on the press and give them something to remember their blimp ride, therefore we will be giving them a press kit consisting of.

2) Mylar Blimp Balloon, "Ron Paul Airforce" hat, "Ron Paul Airforce" T-shirt
$25
"Ron Paul Airforce Official crew" fleece jackets for the Blimp crew x 35 jackets
$30 each x $35 = Approx. $1,050

3) GPS tracking system to track the current location of the blimp.
$50 month

It will also provide a map with realtime gps coordinates of the blimp
$150 month
Videographer equipment

4) HD Tape
$200-$1000 month

5) Airfare to fly lawyers in and out and other individuals who are key to making this work, as well as back home for holidays or family emergency's.
To be determined

6) Food for staff and volunteers who come along to help
To be determined by number of volunteers

7) Room and Board for those of us who will travel with the blimp to make sure we get as much mainstream media attention as possible. We need individuals with the blimp at all times to coordinate the rides and attract even more attention.


feel free to ignore, just going to drop my opinion on a few things, take it or leave it.

1) $25,000 for press kits? who will be paid for making/printing/etc. these
press kits? is $25,000 at cost or cost-plus?

2)c'mon.

3) gimme a break

4) that's a pretty big range for HD tape it seems to me

5) so let me get this right; salary of 52K + airfare back and forth, " to fly
lawyers in and out and other individuals who are key to making this work,
as well as back home for holidays or family emergency's.
To be determined

Please define "other individuals who are key," what is a "family emergency," and for which holidays?

At this point I'm thinking, is it absolutely necessary that Trevor or Elijah babysit the blimp the whole time? Is that not the job of the Blimp Co. and the Crew?

6) "volunteers?" i can see where that's going (yea, i'll walk out on that assumption limb, this ain't in a vacuum after all)

7) well, i think the quoted area says it better than i could.... sums it all up really.

Anyway, if you want to smooth over the dead reputation and kissy kiss some grassroots PR together, you might want to consider some of the things listed above... if the sole motivation is renting a blimp for a month or two and getting the word out about ron paul, that is the sole motivation correct?

steph3n
12-02-2007, 09:13 PM
Consultants have the experience and qualifications to be able to demand such salaries. These guys don't. Come on... a locksmith and a web designer who's only half a step above amateur?

They aren't getting $1000 a day either :confused:

dcatman
12-02-2007, 09:14 PM
Where are the capable volunteers stepping up to do the work?

Good point! This endeavor will require the full time and attention from these organizers and I don't think asking them to starve for any cause is fair.

Cyclone
12-02-2007, 09:14 PM
1. I have worked tirelessly along side all of you for months. I never asked for anythings.

2. When we have run newspaper ads none of us ever thought or considered paying the salary of the newspaper editor.

And no one ever answered any of these questions:

Since questions are not allowed about this project, I am sure I will be flamed for starting this, but I have asked these questions and it appears the post got buried because I never got an answer, so here goes:

I have a few simple questions:

1. How much money are the folks who are running this project going to make? (All of them)?

2. Where is the money going that is coming in as revenue from the advertising sales that is above and beyond your operating expenses?

3. Why is this a for profit venture, Elijah's post did not explain anything to me?

4. How long does this thing need to be in the air and why?

5. What happens if this project never gets off the ground, do the people that have donated so far get their money back?

6. When you write that there will be no refunds are you talking about for the advertising venture? If so, how can you do that? Don't people who pay for advertising usually get what they paid for? How often do folks agree to such a deal?

7. You make it clear under the Terms of Purchase that "you are not making a donation to any political candidate or committee. " This implies that you cannot use any excess funds you make from the advertising to help Ron Paul in any way or support other grass roots efforts to support him either, including supporting grass roots efforts for any TV, radio, or newspaper ads.

8. I have a million questions about your terms of service because every other sentence seems to contradict the one before, but these are minor - not of course to those that would be purchasing from you - but they are minor to the people who are outright donating to your project.

jcims
12-02-2007, 09:14 PM
Consultants have the experience and qualifications to be able to demand such salaries. These guys don't. Come on... a locksmith and a web designer who's only half a step above amateur?

Nice... What should they get paid then? Minimum wage? Should they sell their homes so they can do this?

Cyclone
12-02-2007, 09:17 PM
Nice... What should they get paid then? Minimum wage? Should they sell their homes so they can do this?

November troll. They should get paid nothing. None of us have ever gotten paid and we have worked a hell of a lot harder than ole Trevor here. None of us would ever steal the money of donors to put in our own pockets. This blimp is not worth 100k plus the salaries of all the others and the maintenance for this project.

xexkxex
12-02-2007, 09:17 PM
I like the new art work going on the bottom :)

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/images/BlimpModel.jpg

steph3n
12-02-2007, 09:19 PM
November troll. They should get paid nothing. None of us have ever gotten paid and we have worked a hell of a lot harder than ole Trevor here. None of us would ever steal the money of donors to put in our own pockets. This blimp is not worth 100k plus the salaries of all the others and the maintenance for this project.

But I didn't give up my home in TX or in FL to do it, I still have my job.
Now I am not so sure about the quitting job thing, but I have to say it is a big commitment.

Cyclone
12-02-2007, 09:20 PM
1. I have worked tirelessly along side all of you for months. I never asked for anythings.

2. When we have run newspaper ads none of us ever thought or considered paying the salary of the newspaper editor.

And no one ever answered any of these questions:

Since questions are not allowed about this project, I am sure I will be flamed for starting this, but I have asked these questions and it appears the post got buried because I never got an answer, so here goes:

I have a few simple questions:

1. How much money are the folks who are running this project going to make? (All of them)?

2. Where is the money going that is coming in as revenue from the advertising sales that is above and beyond your operating expenses?

3. Why is this a for profit venture, Elijah's post did not explain anything to me?

4. How long does this thing need to be in the air and why?

5. What happens if this project never gets off the ground, do the people that have donated so far get their money back?

6. When you write that there will be no refunds are you talking about for the advertising venture? If so, how can you do that? Don't people who pay for advertising usually get what they paid for? How often do folks agree to such a deal?

7. You make it clear under the Terms of Purchase that "you are not making a donation to any political candidate or committee. " This implies that you cannot use any excess funds you make from the advertising to help Ron Paul in any way or support other grass roots efforts to support him either, including supporting grass roots efforts for any TV, radio, or newspaper ads.

8. I have a million questions about your terms of service because every other sentence seems to contradict the one before, but these are minor - not of course to those that would be purchasing from you - but they are minor to the people who are outright donating to your project.



When you run a for profit company and all of the profits are going into your pockets and you don't intend to spend a dime on the campaign, you don't need a PAC. What for? This is a business, like the liberty dollar that is stealing Ron Paul's name without their permission in order to make hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Go ahead Trevor defenders: attack me personally and ignore all of my logic. Have fun.

xexkxex
12-02-2007, 09:21 PM
home---->click here for more information--->disclosure page

I still can not find any of these pages from the home page....I think I am losing my mind?

steph3n
12-02-2007, 09:21 PM
When you run a for profit company and all of the profits are going into your pockets and you don't intend to spend a dime on the campaign, you don't need a PAC. What for? This is a business, like the liberty dollar that is stealing Ron Paul's name without their permission in order to make hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Go ahead Trevor defenders: attack me personally and ignore all of my logic. Have fun.

non profits, charity and PACs all pay staff!

michaelwise
12-02-2007, 09:22 PM
Hey, quit whining about how much the crew is going to be paid. Try to look at the big picture. When you see the impact this project will have, you will understand. Heck, those guys running the show for us, will have to go find themselves new jobs when the blimp project is finished in less than a year. Also, our country will probably be bankrupt by then and they'll probably have an even tougher time finding a new job after this ones done. Hell, we raised 4.2 million in one day, funding this thing should be easy.

McDermit
12-02-2007, 09:22 PM
Where are the capable volunteers stepping up to do the work?

They don't want us. My email went unanswered.

My ex owns a multimillion media firm (by which I'm also employed) and either or both of us would gladly replace Trevor, Elijah, Joe, and Bryce - for free. No expenses paid or anything. All 4 could step down, that would save the blimp $208k/yr.

constituent
12-02-2007, 09:22 PM
Nice... What should they get paid then? Minimum wage? Should they sell their homes so they can do this?

perhaps it is just time for folks to cool their jets. no one has to, and everyone can keep trying to trudge along, but again, this is just ugly and should stop for the sake of all parties involved whether for or against.

rest and regroup.... or don't, keep pushing it. perhaps no one should quit their jobs just yet, and everyone should try and start fresh w/ a clean slate.

i'm not that big into the blimp, though it was an alright idea. so again, i ain't got horse in this race, and so you can take my advice or ignore it. but we'd all be well served if a few folks would just own up to the fact that this has turned into a blunder and save some face, effort, and grassroots cohesion.


really, this is doing too much unnecessary harm, screw the risk/return factor. consider what this sorta funk has been contributing to lately. Then ask yourself, "is whatever reason i'm in this for the right reason?"




......





have you answered that question yet?




out loud or in your mind????





it doesn't matter. If you've answered that question
already, either 'yes' or 'no,' then you really don't have
a clue and need to cool your jets for a few days.


my .02

McDermit
12-02-2007, 09:23 PM
Nice... What should they get paid then? Minimum wage? Should they sell their homes so they can do this?

They shouldn't be paid. As long as their are competent volunteers willing to step up, there is no reason for them to be taking any money.

Mental Dribble
12-02-2007, 09:24 PM
Its a huge commitment. Also remember the yare shooting for ONE MONTH to start with. If it works and gets noticed maybe longer. But I doubt it will run for a YEAR! So drop the talk of 52k dollar salaries and be realistic.

People have bills, families, responsibilities, we cant expect them to go bankrupt for this movement.

SUPPORT THE BLIMP! I DID

llamabread
12-02-2007, 09:24 PM
I still can not find any of these pages from the home page....I think I am losing my mind?

Same here. Couldn't find it again. Can I be losing my mind too?

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 09:25 PM
I still can not find any of these pages from the home page....I think I am losing my mind?

interesting...it seems to be gone now.
hmmmm

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 09:25 PM
Same here. Couldn't find it again. Can I be losing my mind too?

It has disappeared within the last 10 minutes

McDermit
12-02-2007, 09:25 PM
How does no one take issue with the fact that Elijah has no job description, no experience (unless we lose the blimp keys) and has only been visible in the grassroots since Nov 12th? He joined this forum before even becoming a meetup member. And now he's aiming to make $52k/yr off of this?

He jumped in and started pushing for this project... and now what's happening to it?

steph3n
12-02-2007, 09:25 PM
They don't want us. My email went unanswered.

My ex owns a multimillion media firm (by which I'm also employed) and either or both of us would gladly replace Trevor, Elijah, Joe, and Bryce - for free. No expenses paid or anything. All 4 could step down, that would save the blimp $208k/yr.

They are answering, send a PM to elijah if you wish, he has been answering me sometimes it takes a while he is spending many hours on this.

xexkxex
12-02-2007, 09:28 PM
One more thing guys.... Giving the name of this thread....

...is the first post in this thread the "Mass E-mail" that was suppose to go out to day??

...because if it was...I didn't get it.

But, I'm not worried for my sake of not getting it because I am on this board.

I was worried about those who do not frequent the board who might have not gotten the E-mail....if it was in fact sent out.

steph3n
12-02-2007, 09:29 PM
One more thing guys.... Giving the name of this thread....

...is the first post in this thread the "Mass E-mail" that was suppose to go out to day??

...because if it was...I didn't get it.

But, I'm not worried for my sake of not getting it because I am on this board.

I was worried about those who do not frequent the board who might have not gotten the E-mail....if it was in fact sent out.

I think maybe it was supposed to go out at midnight, I noticed one date on it was the 3rd

jcims
12-02-2007, 09:30 PM
November troll. They should get paid nothing. None of us have ever gotten paid and we have worked a hell of a lot harder than ole Trevor here. None of us would ever steal the money of donors to put in our own pockets. This blimp is not worth 100k plus the salaries of all the others and the maintenance for this project.

You're talking past tense Cyclone. None of these guys have been paid for the efforts that they have put into it to date either...your judgment of the value of their efforts notwithstanding. They are trying to think big here. As I've already said, I think the company is padded too deep with people, but I don't have a problem with a few folks getting paid a sustenance salary while they devote every waking hour to the effort.

The blimp will not get noticed unless there is someone hammering relentlessly at the local media along the way. Who is going to coordinate that? Who is going to get the local meetup groups involved? Who is going to handle the legal issues associated with giving rides? Who is going to manage the $350K in cash that is donated? Who is going to monitor the blimp crew to make sure they are keeping their end of the bargain? Who is going to make command decisions on necessary artwork changes, blimp routes, weather issues, interviews, engagements? Who is going to wring every last penny out of this effort? You? From your keyboard? This forum is proof positive that you can't get anything done by committee...to many people whining when things don't go their way. This effort needs someone to shepherd it along for it to be effective...are you going to walk away from your home, your job, your life and everything to do this? And even if you were willing, can you get enough supporters in here to support you in that effort?

If so, go for it...

Primbs
12-02-2007, 09:30 PM
The Ron Paul campaign has about 100 paid staff. Some make a lot and some don't. Some staffers add to the campaign and some don't. Every campaign will have some projects that create a positive return and some projects won't do so well.

Already the Blimp has been in countless newspaper stories worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Once it is up in the air, television will certainly cover the Blimp.

People can't all work for free. Especially an intensive project such as this needs dedicated full time guidance.

Remember this will be a grassroots facilitator. Rallies can take place around the blimp, there can be contests for where to send the blimp and we will also get media coverage.

There are many campaign staffers on other campaigns that are making 10 K to 20 K a month. Some campaigns dine at the most expensive hotels. Some campaigns charter expensive jets to get around.

The blimp is a frugal operation compared to other operations. And those other operations are not getting any media attention like the blimp will get.

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 09:33 PM
They don't want us. My email went unanswered.

My ex owns a multimillion media firm (by which I'm also employed) and either or both of us would gladly replace Trevor, Elijah, Joe, and Bryce - for free. No expenses paid or anything. All 4 could step down, that would save the blimp $208k/yr.

I vote for McDermit and company

cien750hp
12-02-2007, 09:36 PM
I vote for McDermit and company

seconded. professionals for free=fantastic.

however, i think we'd all like to have a look at your company/background before

Primbs
12-02-2007, 09:37 PM
Trevor has a track record to back up his success. He very likely to do it again.

Cyclone
12-02-2007, 09:37 PM
1. I have worked tirelessly along side all of you for months. I never asked for anythings.

2. When we have run newspaper ads none of us ever thought or considered paying the salary of the newspaper editor.

And no one ever answered any of these questions:

Since questions are not allowed about this project, I am sure I will be flamed for starting this, but I have asked these questions and it appears the post got buried because I never got an answer, so here goes:

I have a few simple questions:

1. How much money are the folks who are running this project going to make? (All of them)?

2. Where is the money going that is coming in as revenue from the advertising sales that is above and beyond your operating expenses?

3. Why is this a for profit venture, Elijah's post did not explain anything to me?

4. How long does this thing need to be in the air and why?

5. What happens if this project never gets off the ground, do the people that have donated so far get their money back?

6. When you write that there will be no refunds are you talking about for the advertising venture? If so, how can you do that? Don't people who pay for advertising usually get what they paid for? How often do folks agree to such a deal?

7. You make it clear under the Terms of Purchase that "you are not making a donation to any political candidate or committee. " This implies that you cannot use any excess funds you make from the advertising to help Ron Paul in any way or support other grass roots efforts to support him either, including supporting grass roots efforts for any TV, radio, or newspaper ads.

8. I have a million questions about your terms of service because every other sentence seems to contradict the one before, but these are minor - not of course to those that would be purchasing from you - but they are minor to the people who are outright donating to your project.



Will someone answer these questions please?

rory096
12-02-2007, 09:38 PM
Will someone answer these questions please?
Why don't you email them directly to the staff? inquiries@RonPaulBlimp.com

cien750hp
12-02-2007, 09:38 PM
Trevor has a track record to back up his success. He very likely to do it again.

i don't doubt trevor would do great, but if people will do it for free and are professionals and better than him, i think they are the way to go.

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 09:39 PM
One more thing guys.... Giving the name of this thread....

...is the first post in this thread the "Mass E-mail" that was suppose to go out to day??

...because if it was...I didn't get it.

But, I'm not worried for my sake of not getting it because I am on this board.

I was worried about those who do not frequent the board who might have not gotten the E-mail....if it was in fact sent out.

I did not receive this email either

fletcher
12-02-2007, 09:39 PM
Trevor has a track record to back up his success. He very likely to do it again.

No he doesn't. He built a website from some else's idea and the grassroots made it happen. This isn't even grassroots anymore.

Primbs
12-02-2007, 09:40 PM
i don't doubt trevor would do great, but if people will do it for free and are professionals and better than him, i think they are the way to go.

How can they be better than Trevor. He just set the world record for raising the most money in one day online.

4.2 million dollars.

rory096
12-02-2007, 09:41 PM
No he doesn't. He built a website from some else's idea and the grassroots made it happen. This isn't even grassroots anymore.
This isn't grassroots in the same way that a ChipIn raising money to hire a company to create and air an ad isn't grassroots. If you don't like it, go work on some other project, like the letter-writing campaign.

Mental Dribble
12-02-2007, 09:41 PM
Will someone answer these questions please?

mmany of them are already answered. Did you read the disclosure page?

constituent
12-02-2007, 09:43 PM
to be fair, it isn't technically grassroots anymore. it is some media company now.

i'll keep it off of the personal/psychoanalytical level for right now.

fletcher
12-02-2007, 09:44 PM
How can they be better than Trevor. He just set the world record for raising the most money in one day online.

4.2 million dollars.

He did no such thing. He built a website. The grassroots made $4.2 million for Paul. If the grassroots doesn't support the blimp it will fail, regardless of the involvement of someone that once built a website.

cien750hp
12-02-2007, 09:44 PM
How can they be better than Trevor. He just set the world record for raising the most money in one day online.

4.2 million dollars.

because they are professionals. but we do not know. the moneybomb was a success though, but maybe trevor and elijah could do video or something. just eliminate some positions.

also someone on here offered free web hosting, tea party is currently on that. we should use that instead of paying.

RobC
12-02-2007, 09:47 PM
I got a message from RonPaulBlimp.com at 9:24 EST

The message looks great and I've already paid my pledged amount.

I suppose everyone else should get theirs shortly.

jcims
12-02-2007, 09:47 PM
They don't want us. My email went unanswered.

My ex owns a multimillion media firm (by which I'm also employed) and either or both of us would gladly replace Trevor, Elijah, Joe, and Bryce - for free. No expenses paid or anything. All 4 could step down, that would save the blimp $208k/yr.

I'm sorry i missed your offer, McDermit. All i see is people complaining that these guys are asking for a salary. I just don't see how this project is going to be effective without one or two full time employees doing the legwork, and i don't understand why everyone is going nuts over the guys getting paid for that time. It would be one thing if they could keep their day job, but this isn't that kind of effort.

At this point there are so many flaming arrows heading their direction, an olive branch here and there are going to be hard to notice. If this blows up much more, they may start looking for the type of help you're offering.

jcims
12-02-2007, 09:48 PM
because they are professionals. but we do not know. the moneybomb was a success though, but maybe trevor and elijah could do video or something. just eliminate some positions.

also someone on here offered free web hosting, tea party is currently on that. we should use that instead of paying.

They are looking at doing tons of streaming video and live content, I think that would stretch the generosity of any host.

TCrage
12-02-2007, 09:50 PM
How can they be better than Trevor. He just set the world record for raising the most money in one day online.

4.2 million dollars.

OMG

I can't believe anyone here would say that. I gave $1,000 on Nov 5 and I didn't know or care who he is. It was a DATE. Everyone decided to give on that DATE. Just as Dec 16 is just a DATE. No more, no less. All the viral marketing was done by us. He only provided a simple web site so we could see pledge counts.

Mental Dribble
12-02-2007, 09:52 PM
Thank you for your donation Tcrage. Will you be giving on the 16th?

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 09:54 PM
OMG

I can't believe anyone here would say that. I gave $1,000 on Nov 5 and I didn't know or care who he is. It was a DATE. Everyone decided to give on that DATE. Just as Dec 16 is just a DATE. No more, no less. All the viral marketing was done by us. He only provided a simple web site so we could see pledge counts.

+1
This is not the Trevor Show and neither was Nov. 5th

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 09:55 PM
November troll. They should get paid nothing. None of us have ever gotten paid and we have worked a hell of a lot harder than ole Trevor here. None of us would ever steal the money of donors to put in our own pockets. This blimp is not worth 100k plus the salaries of all the others and the maintenance for this project.

You don't believe you should pay a man for his work? When someone here does something freely, that is a privilege grant.

of course, a privilege granted later becomes a right expected.

Sacrifice is not a virtue. And demanding free services of others is communism and socialism. If you believe in property rights and self rights... which are the same thing, then you have to believe a man owns his labor and owes it to no cause but his own.

I understand your anger, but you can't demand others to sacrifice like you have or they have no worth... that is insulting. :(

xexkxex
12-02-2007, 09:56 PM
+1
This is not the Trevor Show and neither was Nov. 5th

I concur. ;)

That being said...I would like to say that i have no objection to the blimp project and will be donating my money as planned on Wed.

Go Ron Paul Blimp!!!!!

Primbs
12-02-2007, 09:56 PM
Other projects may not even be noticed by the voters or the media.

Letter campaigns are great, except Iowa voters are getting hundreds of letters already. TV and radio ads are good but there will be hundreds of thousands of ads in the media for Iowa and New Hampshire and the other states.

Worse if we get close to running the same number of ads as Romney, he will write himself a new check for TV and radio for ten million dollars and negate some of our efforts. Despite Romney's ads, he is already falling behind Huckabee in Iowa. There is no way Romney will ever let us outspend him when Romney has 100 to 200 million dollars.

Anything that is different from the typical media mix has a high chance of success for being noticed and talked about. That is why a blimp is vital to cut through the media.

Do you really think George Stephanopolis of ABC is really going to cut Ron Paul any slack in the media unless Ron Paul does something spectacular that cannot be ignored by the media?

RobC
12-02-2007, 09:57 PM
My 2 cents is that it is still grassroots. It is still supported and paid for by the individuals contributing and is not organized or sponsored by the campaign.

It is still considered grassroots if you purchase signs from a for profit store or for a newspaper ad. It is OUR unpaid for participation that makes it grassroots.

Please let's not get so bent out of shape just because someone might actually get paid for honest work. Nothing is for free (even my time costs me time and energy away from other interests).

Besides - really - who cares what it is called. What is important is getting Ron Paul's message out and getting him elected.

Primbs
12-02-2007, 10:01 PM
November 5th was a collaborative effort that was successful because of the grassroots. Some people made it work a little better than others.

Somebody had to take the initiative to set up the website.

AAjax
12-02-2007, 10:08 PM
i don't doubt trevor would do great, but if people will do it for free and are professionals and better than him, i think they are the way to go.

That just makes fiscal sense, and much closer to the nature of this movement.

AAjax
12-02-2007, 10:10 PM
How can they be better than Trevor. He just set the world record for raising the most money in one day online.

4.2 million dollars.

Ok, he did the website and maintained it, but the people raised the money. Trevor seems like a great guy, but we made Nov 5th a success, not any one person. (As i hope he would tell you)

rory096
12-02-2007, 10:11 PM
Ok, he did the website and maintained it, but the people raised the money. Trevor seems like a great guy, but we made Nov 5th a success, not any one person. (As i hope he would tell you)
Right, and we are necessary to make the blimp a success. Trevor's just helping get it all organized.

Dustancostine
12-02-2007, 10:13 PM
I vote for McDermit and company

+1

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 10:24 PM
That just makes fiscal sense, and much closer to the nature of this movement.

And then Trevor can focus SOLELY on TeaParty07.com...where we actually need him

rory096
12-02-2007, 10:26 PM
And then Trevor can focus SOLELY on TeaPart07.com...where we actually need him
But I thought teaparty07 wasn't trevor's doing at all and everyone else is doing all the work. What's for him to do there?

Mental Dribble
12-02-2007, 10:27 PM
Ok, he did the website and maintained it, but the people raised the money. Trevor seems like a great guy, but we made Nov 5th a success, not any one person. (As i hope he would tell you)


He has already mentioned that in his interviews, he does nto take credit for the whole thing. The media needs a person and point of contact and he is it because he set up the site. Hes a great spoke person for the efforts of us all.

robinlynn
12-02-2007, 10:32 PM
If the blimp staff wants to be paid 52K per year plus travel expenses that is their right. They should ask for whatever amount they think they deserve.

however, I would wager a guess that most of the grassroots who were planning to pledge are making less money per year, volunteering for free, and covering their own expenses to make ron paul president.

And at 52K per year, I imagine that trevor and elijah will be getting paid more than most of the ron paul campaign staff.

That said, I don't have any problem with them making this into a business venture and wish them the best. I really hope to see the blimp in boston on the 16th... even though I'm still coming to terms with the "who is ron paul/google ron paul" slogan.

Hopefully there are some wealthy individuals out there who will take this project under their wing and get the blimp off the ground.

Cali4RonPaul
12-02-2007, 10:42 PM
I really do hope this project takes off, however I will be standing on the sidelines for now.. If people donate their hard earned cash and you guys get close enough to the target, I will drop my contribution in.. but Im wary to put funds to this at the moment.. because i have my doubts.

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 11:55 PM
Elijah,

How about instead of a refund you make it clear that if the blimp does not fly, the money will be contributed to ________ (Operation Live Free or Die, Granny Warriors, etc).

I think this would make people as comfortable as a refund promise would. And you could avoid the problems with promising a refund.

WIN-WIN

seapilot
12-03-2007, 12:29 AM
52000 a year after the IRS takes thier share to pay for the NSA to monitor this site (14000) that should leave 36000 to live on , well by spring of 2008 one might be able to buy a weeks worth of groceries with that.

The Look on wonkette subscribers faces and MSM when its flying overhead....priceless

wxflyguy
12-03-2007, 12:39 AM
Ladies and gents--

All I have to say is that blimp lift-off is set for 1 week from now with a planned date to have it in Boston on the 16th to coincide with the Tea Party. Keep it in the following perspective...help the project out for the next 2 weeks and you'll see what it an do on the way to Boston and afterwards.

For those who have pledged money and are now having second thougts, give at least half of what you pledged and watch to see what your investment turns into, but don't just write off the project completely.

You guys rock...I'm just stoked to be a part of the REVOLUTION!!

torchbearer
12-03-2007, 12:40 AM
Ladies and gents--

All I have to say is that blimp lift-off is set for 1 week from now with a planned date to have it in Boston on the 16th to coincide with the Tea Party. Keep it in the following perspective...help the project out for the next 2 weeks and you'll see what it an do on the way to Boston and afterwards.

For those who have pledged money and are now having second thougts, give at least half of what you pledged and watch to see what your investment turns into, but don't just write off the project completely.

You guys rock...I'm just stoked to be a part of the REVOLUTION!!

We are glad to have you here.

alexpasch
12-03-2007, 12:50 AM
52k is not a lot...I'm in my early 20s and I make more than that...

Successful people who do things right tend to make more than 52k/year...

steph3n
12-03-2007, 12:50 AM
52k is not a lot...I'm in my early 20s and I make more than that...

Successful people who do things right tend to make more than 52k/year...

Most everyone in south beach makes more, this is where Trevor left.

jt_54321
12-03-2007, 01:03 AM
IMHO, both sides have merit. When the contribution is coming from grass root volunteers, a salary like $1,000/month looks a lot. But it is also true, there is no free lunch.

Looking at what at Treveor has accomplished so far, like Nov 5th money bomb, I would give him the benefit of doubt and continue with my small contribution.

Let us wait for 1-2 months and see the progress. Then we can always decide not to contribute. But now is not the right time for bickering. Let us have patience for 1 full month at least and review later again.

The campaign needs our efforts and money NOW, let us not lose sight of a forest worrying about a tree...

Thanks, jt

click4dwilson
12-03-2007, 01:11 AM
Ladies and gents--

All I have to say is that blimp lift-off is set for 1 week from now with a planned date to have it in Boston on the 16th to coincide with the Tea Party. Keep it in the following perspective...help the project out for the next 2 weeks and you'll see what it an do on the way to Boston and afterwards.

For those who have pledged money and are now having second thougts, give at least half of what you pledged and watch to see what your investment turns into, but don't just write off the project completely.

You guys rock...I'm just stoked to be a part of the REVOLUTION!!

Wow that was a transparent attempt to suck every last nickel out of people.

stefans
12-03-2007, 01:12 AM
Most everyone in south beach makes more, this is where Trevor left.

I don't really see the point of this discussion - but I'd like to get to know the person, who is in the process of starting a business and already makes 52k/year.

must be a good business model. (hint, hint)

steph3n
12-03-2007, 01:13 AM
I don't really see the point of this discussion - but I'd like to get to know the person, who is in the process of starting a business and already makes 52k/year.

must be a good business model. (hint, hint)

they are not "already making 52k/year" they are raising funds for a blimp down payment first and foremost.

BTW according to the average's PACs are a great business model for those that think 52k a year is a lot:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:T7Q35bK8JVwJ:www.pac.org/files/2004%2520PAC%2520Admin%2520Compensation%2520Survey .ppt+PAC+salaries&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

tmg19103
12-03-2007, 01:24 AM
If this project had not lost sight of what true grassroots is about (giving time and effort with the only expected return being RP in the White House) and if it had not become this bloated money making/ego boosting/career building project - I could and would have given a substantial amount of money to this.

Too bad, because it is not a bad idea if you take away all the lawyers and those who don't need to be paid. Just have the pilot and co-pilot fly the blimp to key locations while the MeetUps in those locations contact the media, get rallies going, promote it, etc. - for free.

torchbearer
12-03-2007, 01:35 AM
If this project had not lost sight of what true grassroots is about (giving time and effort with the only expected return being RP in the White House) and if it had not become this bloated money making/ego boosting/career building project - I could and would have given a substantial amount of money to this.

Too bad, because it is not a bad idea if you take away all the lawyers and those who don't need to be paid. Just have the pilot and co-pilot fly the blimp to key locations while the MeetUps in those locations contact the media, get rallies going, promote it, etc. - for free.

You forget that this is made possible by grassroots. Oh yeh- forgot. Profit is not a sin.

tmg19103
12-03-2007, 01:51 AM
You forget that this is made possible by grassroots. Oh yeh- forgot. Profit is not a sin.

The point of a grassroots effort is not to make a profit in order to maxamize profit to the campaign.

The grassroots making phone calls, writing letters, handing out literature, giving money on their own - all on their own dime is what grassroots is about.

A campaign raising money thorugh a professional fundraiser who takes a cut is not grassroots. A for-profit blimp where the porfits do not go to the campaign is not grassroots.

I have no prob with the blimp. I just think it has become a bloated, over managed bureaucracy with too many employees.

OferNave
12-03-2007, 02:13 AM
The point of a grassroots effort is not to make a profit in order to maxamize profit to the campaign.

The grassroots making phone calls, writing letters, handing out literature, giving money on their own - all on their own dime is what grassroots is about.

A campaign raising money thorugh a professional fundraiser who takes a cut is not grassroots. A for-profit blimp where the porfits do not go to the campaign is not grassroots.

I have no prob with the blimp. I just think it has become a bloated, over managed bureaucracy with too many employees.

I think you might be drasticly underestimating how much work those employees have taken upon themselves, and how much they're going to accomplish in the next few months. It will be like having a second campaign.

I've been following this whole thing from the beginning, read the emails, the threads, every page on the site, etc... it started out simply enough, and it took me a bit by surprise when the thing started evolving, but I see where they're going with it, and I think it's smart. I also think I was naive at first about how simple it would be to simply rent a blimp - maybe we all were.

tmg19103
12-03-2007, 02:23 AM
I think you might be drasticly underestimating how much work those employees have taken upon themselves, and how much they're going to accomplish in the next few months. It will be like having a second campaign.

I've been following this whole thing from the beginning, read the emails, the threads, every page on the site, etc... it started out simply enough, and it took me a bit by surprise when the thing started evolving, but I see where they're going with it, and I think it's smart. I also think I was naive at first about how simple it would be to simply rent a blimp - maybe we all were.

Well, I hope it works out. I'll focus my efforts elsewhere.

OferNave
12-03-2007, 03:39 AM
Well, I hope it works out. I'll focus my efforts elsewhere.

And that's cool. :) Whatever you do will be appreciated (I hope).

Man from La Mancha
12-03-2007, 04:16 AM
They don't want us. My email went unanswered.

My ex owns a multimillion media firm (by which I'm also employed) and either or both of us would gladly replace Trevor, Elijah, Joe, and Bryce - for free. No expenses paid or anything. All 4 could step down, that would save the blimp $208k/yr.
Where was this offer 2 weeks ago or last summer when Trevor suggested this blimp? Please do start up another project or jump on one that you see here.

.

OferNave
12-03-2007, 04:47 AM
Hey - a blimp project representative has started a thread, and is answering all questions:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=46258

leonster
12-03-2007, 05:34 AM
You don't believe you should pay a man for his work? When someone here does something freely, that is a privilege grant.

of course, a privilege granted later becomes a right expected.

Sacrifice is not a virtue. And demanding free services of others is communism and socialism. If you believe in property rights and self rights... which are the same thing, then you have to believe a man owns his labor and owes it to no cause but his own.

I understand your anger, but you can't demand others to sacrifice like you have or they have no worth... that is insulting. :(


I understand what you're saying but....

Ok, both sides need to step back a moment and realize that most of the people here are not trying to sabotage something... there ARE a few, perhaps, but almost everyone who has posted in this thread wants to see the blimp up and flying. The people disagreeing with you (I mean "you" generally, to everyone)... just remember, they aren't the "enemy" or anything. Let's be respectful to each other here...



With that said... I understand what you are saying. It's wrong to DEMAND people to sacrifice their time, jobs, ability to pay bills, etc.

..but I don't think anyone (or hardly anyone) is demanding Trevor, Elijah, or anyone, to sacrifice in this way. If anyone is demanding this, or has this attitude... please think about it long and hard.



But in my opinion, what they are saying is this: if Trevor, Elijah, et al, cannot do this project full-time without being paid... that's fine and understandable.

But there probably ARE other people that can step in for many of the duties... and that WOULD be willing to do it for free.

Why not allow them to volunteer? If they are capable, that is...

Cyclone
12-03-2007, 05:34 AM
Here were my questions:

I have a few simple questions:

1. How much money are the folks who are running this project going to make? (All of them)?

2. Where is the money going that is coming in as revenue from the advertising sales that is above and beyond your operating expenses?

3. Why is this a for profit venture, Elijah's post did not explain anything to me?

4. How long does this thing need to be in the air and why?

5. What happens if this project never gets off the ground, do the people that have donated so far get their money back?

6. When you write that there will be no refunds are you talking about for the advertising venture? If so, how can you do that? Don't people who pay for advertising usually get what they paid for? How often do folks agree to such a deal?

7. You make it clear under the Terms of Purchase that "you are not making a donation to any political candidate or committee. " This implies that you cannot use any excess funds you make from the advertising to help Ron Paul in any way or support other grass roots efforts to support him either, including supporting grass roots efforts for any TV, radio, or newspaper ads.

8. I have a million questions about your terms of service because every other sentence seems to contradict the one before, but these are minor - not of course to those that would be purchasing from you - but they are minor to the people who are outright donating to your project.



Here was my answer:

Please visit www.RonPaulBlimp.com and read over the Terms of Sale, FAQ's and How This Works sections. There will be a Transparency section added tonight that addresses what all adds up to the $400,000 a month. There will also be a document on why we switched from a PAC to an advertising agency posted later today or early tommorow. If these documents do not address your concerns please email me with your remaining questions and I will do my best to provide all the information you need.

We want the Ron Paul Blimp Tour to be an exciting and satisfying event for all of our customers.


Katharine Memole
Customer Relations
www.RonPaulBlimp.com


Most of my questions are still unanswered. But I find it interesting they have hired a customer relations person when all we ever wanted to do was rent a blimp and have it fly around with Ron Paul's name on it.

Perhaps, the transparency section will answer all questions.

leonster
12-03-2007, 05:41 AM
If this project had not lost sight of what true grassroots is about (giving time and effort with the only expected return being RP in the White House) and if it had not become this bloated money making/ego boosting/career building project - I could and would have given a substantial amount of money to this.

Too bad, because it is not a bad idea if you take away all the lawyers and those who don't need to be paid. Just have the pilot and co-pilot fly the blimp to key locations while the MeetUps in those locations contact the media, get rallies going, promote it, etc. - for free.

...On the other hand, I DO understand you, too... but it's unrealistic to think that we could get lawyers of the caliber they have (former FEC chairman) without any pay... so I do believe it is necessary to pay SOME people.

And yes, it is necessary to have a final coordinator. A project like this cannot be TOTALLY decentralized. Should we let the board members vote on every little decision, flight plan, every stop, who gets tickets, what media can ride, etc. etc.? I think that would be a recipe for dissension and ill feelings among people here. So it IS necessary to have a coordinator, pretty much full-time, and if the best available option is to have a paid coordinator, then that's fine with me.

But why so many employees?

leonster
12-03-2007, 05:48 AM
The point of a grassroots effort is not to make a profit in order to maxamize profit to the campaign.

The grassroots making phone calls, writing letters, handing out literature, giving money on their own - all on their own dime is what grassroots is about.

A campaign raising money thorugh a professional fundraiser who takes a cut is not grassroots. A for-profit blimp where the porfits do not go to the campaign is not grassroots.

I have no prob with the blimp. I just think it has become a bloated, over managed bureaucracy with too many employees.

Another way of thinking about this is... Ok, let's say we DO pay $24,000/month in salaries that do not go into the campaign, then... that is a loss to the campaign.... and the $350,000 is, as well.

Will the added attention and publicity make up for this, by making more new people aware of Ron Paul, so that enough new people will join the movement... and the $375,000 will be (more than) made up by additional people donating?

My guess is that yes, we could stand to make at least this much more in donations from new converts (not to mention, more importantly, the VOTES from new converts). But who knows... it's a risk.

In my eyes, a risk worth taking.

But we need to get more ppl involved and donating, to get this off the ground.



Here is a question to anyone who pledged but hasn't donated:

Why?

What can be done to ease your fears about donating/motivate you to donate?

Cyclone
12-07-2007, 07:18 PM
I still want an answer to number 2.

2. Where is the money going that is coming in as revenue from the advertising sales that is above and beyond your operating expenses?

Can we get an answer to that?

Now I have some more questions:

A. Are the advertisements you are selling the same thing as the donations? Is there going to be any kind of advertisement on the blimp or is this just a way to get donations by going around FEC laws?

B. I noticed today that now XM radio and others want their name on the outside of the blimp. Is this thing going to look like a Race car? How much are you selling that space for and how much of the space are you planning to sell?

C. Where does the money that comes from this additional revenue for putting names on the sides of the blimp go? Into the business?

D. If this business venture is so profitable why do are asking for people who are donating to Ron Paul to pay for your business, including jackets for the crew, cameras for the videographer that you are paying?

E. How much is your lawyer charging? 500 an hour? 1500 an hour? 2000? How many hours are you expecting to use him? How many hours have you paid him for already?

F. So, tell me if I am wrong about this: the people who are trying to get Ron Paul elected are giving you what will amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars so that you can have a business where you make money, put it in your pocket and fly a blimp around?

G. Why are the grass roots supporters buying cameras for this deal?

H. Why are the grass roots supporters paying for your attorneys for your business venture?

I. Or are they?

J. Is there a difference between a donation and a "purchase" of advertising time on the blimp? Or have you merged the two?

K. What if an abortion clinic or a used car lot wants to advertise on the blimp, is that ok?

I. What kind of ads will you be running on this blimp and where will they be? On the bottom, running along like a Times Square sign? Or are there no ads at all and this is just a euphemism for donation?


J. If people purchase these "ads" is it possible they will get in trouble with the FEC if the FEC decides this is not an acceptable way to receive money for a project? How can you know what the FEC will do? How can you answer that?



To that last person who asked why I haven't donated:

1. I don't have any desire to pay money to Trevor for doing something for Ron Paul, I have been working 90 a week for free since this all began, so have many others.

2. I have no desire to purchase expensive jackets for the crew so they can look cute.

3. I have no desire to purchase an entire airship when all I ever wanted was for someone to rent a blimp, have their crew run the whole darn thing, and pay them a small amount per week for the privilege: something like 3k a week or something.

4. I have no desire to pay up to a million dollars for a blimp to be in the air; I see a million other more worthwhile projects that need money. Ads in magazines, ads in newspapers, helping to pay for yard signs.

5. I have been in Boston in December. It is freezing and gray and wet and snowy and people walk with their heads down against the wind with scarves up to their eyes and hats down to their eyebrows. Just looking up lets in freezing cold air. A. I can't imagine how a blimp can fly in a lot of the weather I have seen in Boston in the winter and B. I can't imagine how anyone could see it among the gray clouds.

6. I don't pay Ron Paul supporters to help out Ron Paul. I pay money to the campaign so they can hire who they want, but I don't pay other supporters to sit at booths or hand out literature, or make signs, or write articles, or get involved in their local GOP or go door to door with slim jims, or make phone calls to people in Iowa for a straw poll, or donate money to a spam charity event, or any other of the hundreds of thousands of things we all do for Ron Paul because we support him, not because we are looking for ways to support ourselves.

7. WE ALL ARE WORKING HARD FOR RON PAUL. NONE OF US ARE ASKING FOR A DIME. NOT ONE. SHOULD A MAN GET PAID FOR HIS LABOR, YES. SHOULD A MAN GET PAID TO VOLUNTEER HIS LABOR? I THINK NO. THAT IS WHAT THE WORD VOLUNTEER IS ALL ABOUT. AND DON'T YOU DARE TELL ME ABOUT HOW MUCH WORK THEY ARE DOING. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF US ON THIS BOARD WHO HAVE BEEN WORKING THAT HARD AND HARDER SINCE THE DAY THIS CAMPAIGN BEGAN AND WE DO IT FOR NOTHING. ASK BRADLEY OF DC HOW MUCH TIME HE HAS PUT IN LATELY. ASK LORD XAR. ASK SKIINGFF. ASK LIBERTYEAGLE. ASK ARAVOTH. Not one of them asked for a penny and never would from any of the people here. We were all in this together. We used to be. And the ones not on this board are probably working the hardest because they are not just talking about doing things, they are out there doing them. For free, because we all believe in this cause.

Lew Rockwell took a 350k hit this year because of all his articles for Ron Paul took him out of some kind of tax status that cost him a fortune, but he said he would rather give up the money than stop helping Ron Paul.

So, should a man get paid for his labor? Of course. Should a volunteer? That kind of defies the definition. Imagine if all the people who went down to help folks during Katrina and gave of themselves, their time, their money, etc. demanded to be paid for helping? What would you think of them?

slantedview
12-07-2007, 08:00 PM
that's a whole lot of questions there. how about posting them in the "questions" subforum.

Cyclone
12-08-2007, 03:03 AM
Oh gosh, what is the limit?