Chelsea Manning Threatens to Cut "Her" Balls Off

[presence]

https://wikileaks.org/Bradley-Manning-Trial-FAQ.html
(https://wikileaks.org/Bradley-Manning-Trial-FAQ.html)



Chelsea Manning has filed a lawsuit against the United States Defense Department and the Department of the Army for denying her medical care for her gender dysphoria. It seeks a preliminary injunction requiring the Pentagon to provide “clinically appropriate treatment.”


While deployed as an intelligence analyst in Iraq, Manning provided WikiLeaks with around a half million classified documents, which exposed details of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, including war crimes like torture and summary executions. She is currently serving a 35-year prison sentence at Fort Leavenworth after being convicted of Espionage Act violations and other offenses on July 30, 2013.


She has spent more than a year trying to convince the Pentagon to provide her access to hormone therapy, but they have ignored her requests or insisted on denying her access to treatment—an alleged violation of her Eighth Amendment rights under the US Constitution.


The lawsuit [PDF (http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/Manning%20preliminary%20injunction%20motion.pdf)] accuses the Pentagon of prohibiting her “from expressing her female gender by growing her hair and otherwise following female grooming standards.” It

says she is “experiencing escalating distress and is

at serious risk of severe and imminent harm, including

resorting to self-surgery (

auto-castration) or suicide, because this medically necessary treatment is being withheld.”



http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/09/23/chelsea-manning-sues-pentagon-for-denying-her-urgently-needed-medical-care-for-gender-dysphoria/

[Working Poor]

Manning needs therapy to accept self the way they are...

[Carlybee]

To each his/her own but I don't think that's a reason for litigation

[dannno]

Maybe he is doing it for continued press so people don't forget about him and just let him rot in prison, like almost all would otherwise.

[Christian Liberty]

To each his/her own but I don't think that's a reason for litigation

While you are correct, the fact that he is in prison at all is a reason for litigation. He's a hero.

[cajuncocoa]

Why does no one consider the possibility that he/she had been given psych drugs to drive him/her crazy?

[Christian Liberty]

Why does no one consider the possibility that he/she had been given psych drugs to drive him/her crazy?

This is very likely the case

[specsaregood]

Why does no one consider the possibility that he/she had been given psych drugs to drive him/her crazy?

That'd be a hell of a threat to prevent future whistleblowers: if you leak information and get caught; we'll give you drugs to make you crazy enough to want to cut your own balls off.

[enhanced_deficit]

Maybe he is doing it for continued press so people don't forget about him and just let him rot in prison, like almost all would otherwise.

This.

This would put LGBT movement behind Obama in a fix.





Obama proclaims June LGBT Pride Month By Justin Snow (http://www.metroweekly.com/author/jsnow/) on May 30, 2014


http://www.metroweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Obama-14061591456_ed9aaaf9c4_z.jpgPhoto: Barack Obama. Credit: Official White House Photo by Pete Souza.

President Barack Obama declared June Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month in a proclamation released by the White House Friday and called on Americans to recommit themselves to finishing the work that remains for achieving full equality.

http://www.metroweekly.com/2014/05/obama-proclaims-june-lgbt-pride-month/

[RonPaulFanInGA]

It's really insulting to real women that the media keeps referring to Bradley Manning with feminine pronouns. In what way, shape or form is Manning a woman? Just because he says he "identifies" as one? I wasn't aware that was how the two sexes worked.


Chelsea Manning Sues Pentagon for Denying Her ‘Urgently-Needed’ Medical Care for Gender Dysphoria

Urgent? Why should taxpayers foot the bill for this? Prisoners shouldn't get cosmetic surgeries on our dime. This is about as "urgently-needed" as another prisoner's rhytidectomy.

Firedoglake also keeps calling Manning "her". This is a site that referred to itself as part of the "reality-based community" during the Bush years. Calling a man with a Y chromosome and a penis dangling between his legs "her" and "she" for no reason other than he wants to be referred to as such? Some "reality".

[Christian Liberty]

It's really insulting to real women that the media keeps referring to Bradley Manning with feminine pronouns. In what way, shape or form is Manning a woman? Just because he says he "identifies" as one? I wasn't aware that was how the two sexes worked.



Urgent? Why should taxpayers foot the bill for this? Prisoners shouldn't get cosmetic surgeries on our dime. This is about as "urgently-needed" as another prisoner's rhytidectomy.

Firedoglake also keeps calling Manning as "her". This is a site that referred to itself as part of the "reality-based community" during the Bush years. Calling a man with a Y chromosome and a penis dangling between his legs "her" and "she" for no reason other than he wants to be referred to as such? Some "reality".

I refer to Manning as he deliberately. I feel for him because I knew someone who was transgendered and I know its not easy for them. At the same time, if God created you a male, that's still exactly what you are.

I think Manning's actions were heroic. But he's still a man.

[Matt Collins]

This guy is really messed up in the head :(

[GunnyFreedom]

Why does no one consider the possibility that he/she had been given psych drugs to drive him/her crazy?

This has been my thought all along, frankly. :(

[KCIndy]

There's absolutely no doubt Manning was severely abused in captivity. It may still be going on, for all I know.

There are a wide variety of articles from numerous credible publications detailing the harsh treatment he received. Just do a search for "treatment of Bradley Manning" and see what comes up.

Solitary confinement. Forced nudity. Constant bullying and threats. Held in irons anytime outside the cell. For years. It would be enough to drive anyone insane.

Here's an excerpt from a 2012 article from Wired.com that gives just a few of the sickening details:

http://www.wired.com/2012/08/general-manning-jail-treatment/


Manning’s treatment during his detention was the subject of intense criticism. The ACLU called his treatment “gratuitously harsh” in a letter sent to U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates. And former State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley was forced to resign after publicly calling Manning’s treatment at Quantico “counterproductive and stupid.”

Manning, 23, was arrested in May 2010 in Iraq after telling a former hacker that he had leaked vast amounts of classified material to the secret-spilling site WikiLeaks. He was subsequently transferred to Kuwait, where he was detained for about two months before being moved to the Quantcico brig.

For most of his time at the brig, Manning was held in highly restrictive pretrial confinement. Designated a maximum-custody detainee under prevention-of-injury watch, or POI, he was confined to his cell for all but an hour a day, and has a number of other restrictions placed on him. At one point his clothes were taken away, and he was forced to sleep naked.

The brig maintained that Manning’s treatment was consistent with other prisoners placed under POI watch. But Manning’s attorney filed protests alleging mistreatment and indicating there was no legitimate reason for his client to be under protective watch.

“Manning was awoken at 0500 hours and required to remain awake in his cell from 0500 to 2200 hours,” Coombs claims in the latest motion, and says Manning “was not permitted to lie down on his rack during the duty day. Nor was Manning permitted to lean his back against the cell wall; he had to sit upright on his rack without any back support”.

He was also allowed only 20 minutes of “sunshine call” and was given no more than five minutes in the shower. When he was allowed out of his cell, his arms and legs were bound in metal shackles, preventing him from getting sufficient exercise. He was also given only a pair of running shoes that had no laces so that when he tried to walk in them, while shackled, the shoes fell off his feet, Coombs writes.

Manning was also forced to remove his clothes for an inspection after he protested his treatment.

“It is well established that forced nudity is a classic humiliation technique. The only permissible inference is that the Brig intended to punish Manning by subjecting him to humiliating treatment because Manning correctly pointed out the absurdity of his POI status,” Coombs asserts.

[jmdrake]

I refer to Manning as he deliberately. I feel for him because I knew someone who was transgendered and I know its not easy for them. At the same time, if God created you a male, that's still exactly what you are.

I think Manning's actions were heroic. But he's still a man.

Exactly. He/she is a hero.

[jmdrake]

There's absolutely no doubt Manning was severely abused in captivity. It may still be going on, for all I know.

There are a wide variety of articles from numerous credible publications detailing the harsh treatment he received. Just do a search for "treatment of Bradley Manning" and see what comes up.

Solitary confinement. Forced nudity. Constant bullying and threats. Held in irons anytime outside the cell. For years. It would be enough to drive anyone insane.

Here's an excerpt from a 2012 article from Wired.com that gives just a few of the sickening details:

http://www.wired.com/2012/08/general-manning-jail-treatment/

And people wonder why Edward Snowden doesn't come home?

[Christian Liberty]

There's absolutely no doubt Manning was severely abused in captivity. It may still be going on, for all I know.

There are a wide variety of articles from numerous credible publications detailing the harsh treatment he received. Just do a search for "treatment of Bradley Manning" and see what comes up.

Solitary confinement. Forced nudity. Constant bullying and threats. Held in irons anytime outside the cell. For years. It would be enough to drive anyone insane.

Here's an excerpt from a 2012 article from Wired.com that gives just a few of the sickening details:

http://www.wired.com/2012/08/general-manning-jail-treatment/

That's just awful. I wish I could remember all of these stories in all of my political debates. The US government is truly messed up.

[liberty2897]

While you are correct, the fact that he is in prison at all is a reason for litigation. He's a hero.


This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A FUCKING HERO. If HE wants to be a SHE, then so be it.. not my place to say. It is totally irrelevant , but the FACT still remains that this wonderful person put their fucking life on the line to expose a completely corrupt system. If you (RP forum) can't get behind that, then I'm in the wrong place.

[Christian Liberty]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A FUCKING HERO. If HE wants to be a SHE, then so be it.. not my place to say. It is totally irrelevant , but the FACT still remains that this wonderful person put their fucking life on the line to expose a completely corrupt system. If you (RP forum) can't get behind that, then I'm in the wrong place.

I honestly have to wonder if the government is making the transgender bit up to make soc cons less sympathetic. It won't work on me, despite my VERY strong opposition to transgenderism.

[jmdrake]

I honestly have to wonder if the government is making the transgender bit up to make soc cons less sympathetic. It won't work on me, despite my VERY strong opposition to transgenderism.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to FreedomFanatic again.

[liberty2897]

I honestly have to wonder if the government is making the transgender bit up to make soc cons less sympathetic. It won't work on me, despite my VERY strong opposition to transgenderism.

I am curious what your reasoning is for "VERY strong opposition to transgenderism". I don't really understand it myself, so maybe you can enlighten me some? I have people who work for me who reportedly fit this category, so I would like to be enlightened if you you have something informational.

[Dr.3D]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to FreedomFanatic again.
I've got ya covered.

[presence]

I am curious what your reasoning is for "VERY strong opposition to transgenderism". I don't really understand it myself


http://articles.mercola.com/ImageServer/public/2008/April/4.15synthetic.jpg


Mom I'm almost done with my BPA sippy, I need a triclosan wipe to clean my hands, before I go out and play in the atrozine lawn.

[amy31416]

I am curious what your reasoning is for "VERY strong opposition to transgenderism". I don't really understand it myself, so maybe you can enlighten me some? I have people who work for me who reportedly fit this category, so I would like to be enlightened if you you have something informational.

Live and let live. I don't care that Manning considers himself transgendered, nor do I care that these fellows are opposed to it--so long as neither party doesn't harm others.

Everyone is entitled to live their lives as they please.

[liberty2897]

in reply to presence
So, I take it that you have all the physics and life surrounding you figured out. I claim no such thing. If humans want to re-shape themselves into something non-traditional, I have no problem with that. I'm pretty sure that Bradley Manning, like it or not, is going to have more of an impact on the universe than you are.

[Dr.3D]

At a boy.... you can be anything you want to be. :D

[Christian Liberty]

I am curious what your reasoning is for "VERY strong opposition to transgenderism". I don't really understand it myself, so maybe you can enlighten me some? I have people who work for me who reportedly fit this category, so I would like to be enlightened if you you have something informational.
Theological reasoning: God created men as men and women as women, I'd hold that its a sin (though not a crime) to try to change it.

[liberty2897]

At a boy.... you can be anything you want to be. :D

Are you replying to me? Fuck you punk.

[liberty2897]

Theological reasoning: God created men as men and women as women, I'd hold that its a sin (thoYouugh not a crime) to try to change it.

Fuck... you guys are hopeless... I'm out for good.

[Dr.3D]

Are you replying to me? Fuck you punk.
Oh, I'm sorry....

At a girl.... you can be anything you want to be. :)

[satchelmcqueen]

i respect manning for what he has done with the video leaks and all, but if he want hormones to become a woman, then thats something he should do on his own. hey, id LOVE to have titties on my knees so i could play with them, but i dont expect you people to pay for it!

[Dr.3D]

i respect manning for what he has done with the video leaks and all, but if he want hormones to become a woman, then thats something he should do on his own. hey, id LOVE to have titties on my knees so i could play with them, but i dont expect you people to pay for it!
I'd pay money to see that.
Maybe we could take up a collection for you. :D

[amy31416]

Fuck... you guys are hopeless... I'm out for good.

How dare you...punk. Get offa my lawn!

[specsaregood]

Everyone is entitled to live their lives as they please.

But they are not entitled to have the rest of us pay for it.

[jkob]

Manning is a hero regardless of gender identity.

Part of me does wonder what effects that imprisonment has had tho in relation to this disorder

[Danke]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj8UxrnIcMM

[green73]

http://www.metroweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Obama-14061591456_ed9aaaf9c4_z.jpg
Are my tits exposed enough? Oh wait, you like dick.

[green73]

Look at the fucking gap in the Oval Office desk. What a charade.

[jonhowe]

Threads like this make me embarrassed to be a member of this forum. Here we have a bunch of free (NOT in federal prison for exposing war crimes of the most powerful government on earth), full grown adults snickering like children at Manning's CLEAR emotional anguish. Have you not all read her chats from before and during the leaks? This person was harassed and terrorized by bible thumping morons like some of the very people in this thread to the point of near suicide. Seriously; some of you need to grow the hell up. Even if Chelsea Manning wasn't a hero, she's a human f-ing being. Show some damn respect for the other people on this planet.


Maybe he is doing it for continued press so people don't forget about him and just let him rot in prison, like almost all would otherwise.

:rolleyes: Yeah. That's it. The 'guy' just wants attention.



Why does no one consider the possibility that he/she had been given psych drugs to drive him/her crazy?


Have you even followed Manning's story at all? Sex/Gender related emotional stress was what set the whole thing in motion. The fact that people here are snickering at and casting doubt upon them is pathetic.


It's really insulting to real women that the media keeps referring to Bradley Manning with feminine pronouns. In what way, shape or form is Manning a woman? Just because he says he "identifies" as one? I wasn't aware that was how the two sexes worked.


You weren't aware? Good, now you are, and that's all settled.


I refer to Manning as he deliberately.


That makes you an ass.



I honestly have to wonder if the government is making the transgender bit up to make soc cons less sympathetic. It won't work on me, despite my VERY strong opposition to transgenderism.

Again, have you followed this story? This part is not a new twist added after the fact, this is what kicked off the leaks in the first place.

How can you be OPPOSED to someone's natural state of being? Are you opposed to the color blind, too? What about us lefties? (Also: Wow, I keep responding to your disgusting posts, not sure why.)



i respect manning for what he has done with the video leaks and all, but if he want hormones to become a woman, then thats something he should do on his own. hey, id LOVE to have titties on my knees so i could play with them, but i dont expect you people to pay for it!

Sex change... on her own... in maximum security solitary... so you mean have her cut her balls off? Like the point of the whole thread? And don't expect others to pay??? We're paying to keep her in a heavily guarded federal cage for the next couple decades...

Let her out of jail and I'll pledge $100 to her sex change kick starter. But as long as she's behind bars, the choice is not hers.




But they are not entitled to have the rest of us pay for it.
... Did we all forget she's in federal prison? It's not like she can run to the bank, take out some money, and set an appointment with her doctor.

[fr33]

Why can't she raise money from donations to get the job done by a doctor? I'd donate and I doubt she'd have a problem in raising the money needed.

[thoughtomator]

I'm going to attribute this one to psychological damage wrought by his captivity.

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm going to attribute this one to psychological damage wrought by his captivity.
As previous people have stated, if you were unaware of this before now, you haven't been following the case too closely.

It is well known that Bradley Manning views himself as a woman. Before confinement, during confinement, and most probably after confinement.

More power to him. He one, has that right, and for two has been such a instrumental figure in bringing about debate on the Iraq invasion as to deserve the respect of any and everyone.

It's not some sort of conspiracy. The mockery is rather shameful.

[amy31416]

But they are not entitled to have the rest of us pay for it.

Never implied anything of the sort.

[Christian Liberty]

I honestly have to wonder if the government is making the transgender bit up to make soc cons less sympathetic. It won't work on me, despite my VERY strong opposition to transgenderism.

Someone posted this as a rep comment:


You are one sick person. Treat other human beings with the respect they deserve.

Oddly, it was a +rep. But, how in the world does anything I posted make me a 'sick person'?

[The Free Hornet]

It's really insulting to real women that the media keeps referring to Bradley Manning with feminine pronouns. In what way, shape or form is Manning a woman?

But is it a man? Is it insulting to all the real men who'd rather not have their (non-cancerous) nuts sliced off?

[Christian Liberty]

EDIT: just noticed it now. Whatever. Some of us don't go for the whole transgender thing, and I'm one of those.

[kcchiefs6465]

EDIT: just noticed it now. Whatever. Some of us don't go for the whole transgender thing, and I'm one of those.
It isn't about "going for."

Some people are easily offended.

He identifies as a woman. Whatever floats boats. He should be free and able to do whatever he wishes with his life. The cost of the procedure being negligible to keeping him in a maximum security basement being secondary to the precedent it would set.

I wish him the best of luck. It's shameful how heroes are treated in this country. And his sexual orientation being a large part of why he is marginalized plus a 'conservative' being the implementer of the war (which is as well shameful).

[Natural Citizen]

But, how in the world does anything I posted make me a 'sick person'?

I've always thought that folks who analyzed everything in theological terms of controversy suffered from some type of mental illness. Doesn't make me correct, it is just the impression I'm left with most of the time.

[jonhowe]

Why can't she raise money from donations to get the job done by a doctor? I'd donate and I doubt she'd have a problem in raising the money needed.

I think that's frowned upon when in solitary confinement.

[jonhowe]

Someone posted this as a rep comment:



Oddly, it was a +rep. But, how in the world does anything I posted make me a 'sick person'?

I gave you the plus rep. I decided a few months ago to stop neg repping people who bother me, but I also often feel the need to... "express myself". Snarky +reps are my happy compromise there. We are, theoretically, in this together.
(Edit 2: After typing this policy out it seems pretty stupid.)


You're a sick person because you're blinded by your bronze age laws. You're unable to accept facts of nature and understand this human being's suffering. The fact that you are "VERY opposed" to "transgenderism", I mean, I don't know how to respond to such willful ignorance. For you, as always, it's black and white. Your god supposedly made a man and a woman and therefor poor Chelsea manning is just some sick fool who needs to get well.


EDIT: If you're going to share my private message to you with the public, at least quote me; I stand by my vitriol!

[The Free Hornet]

You're a sick person because you're blinded by your bronze age laws.

What he said, FF!

How about you skip your next bible study class and read this story (http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/family/articles/2011/12/11/led_by_the_child_who_simply_knew/) or go out and meet some transgendered folk.


http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2011/12/11/1323581924_9814/539w.jpg

In conversation later, Wayne tells another story of how things have changed, for good and forever. He and the twins were getting out of the car recently, and he grabbed their hands to walk with them.

Jonas, being a teenage boy, shook his father off, while Nicole was happy to walk hand-in-hand, swinging arms.

“She’ll do that the rest of her life,’’ Wayne says with a wide grin. “It was an epiphany for me.’’

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/family/articles/2011/12/11/led_by_the_child_who_simply_knew/

[jmdrake]

Have you even followed Manning's story at all? Sex/Gender related emotional stress was what set the whole thing in motion. The fact that people here are snickering at and casting doubt upon them is pathetic.


Right. Because nobody in their right mind would be bothered enough by seeing video of civilians, including children and ambulance workers, gunned down by U.S. helicopters to actually do something about it. :rolleyes: Really, regardless of what anyone thinks about transgender, the whole he/she did it because of gender identity is a disgusting charade meant to get people to take their eyes off of the horror of what was released. And frankly if transgender people are that so mentally unstable that if they can't get an operation they'll violate national security then that would be a good reason to keep them out of the military. Seriously. Say if Manning had just been too broke to pay for the operation and it wasn't covered by military insurance but it was allowed? Reason to violate national security? I don't think such a narrative is really all that helpful to the LGBT community that you seem to think it is. The "He/she was pissed at the evil being done in our name" makes him a hero in my eyes regardless of his desire to change genders. But if this was all about changing genders....well that's asinine and dangerous. If you're that stress, leave the military.

[jmdrake]

What he said, FF!

How about you skip your next bible study class and read this story (http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/family/articles/2011/12/11/led_by_the_child_who_simply_knew/) or go out and meet some transgendered folk.

Well that story kinda kills the whole "Gender identity is genetic" argument.

[jmdrake]

I gave you the plus rep. I decided a few months ago to stop neg repping people who bother me, but I also often feel the need to... "express myself". Snarky +reps are my happy compromise there. We are, theoretically, in this together.
(Edit 2: After typing this policy out it seems pretty stupid.)


You're a sick person because you're blinded by your bronze age laws. You're unable to accept facts of nature and understand this human being's suffering. The fact that you are "VERY opposed" to "transgenderism", I mean, I don't know how to respond to such willful ignorance. For you, as always, it's black and white. Your god supposedly made a man and a woman and therefor poor Chelsea manning is just some sick fool who needs to get well.


EDIT: If you're going to share my private message to you with the public, at least quote me; I stand by my vitriol!

Unable to accept the facts of nature? So...if I decide I want to be genetically altered to be white, someone who is bothered by that is the one not accepting nature? Ummmm.....okay. On the SyFy TV show "Defiance" the "transvestites" are humans who want to be aliens. Some go so far as to cut the corneas off of alien cadavers (or in some cases living aliens) so that their eyes can look alien. Fiction I know, but I think it raises a very valid point. If at some point people decide they no longer really want to be people is that "natural"? I don't think the government should step in and stop such augmentation, but I don't think everyone is required to embrace it either. Recently there was a story of a woman who had a third breast surgically implanted like the mutant prostitute in the movie "Total Recall". I wouldn't interfere with that, but I don't call it natural either.

[acptulsa]

Right. Because nobody in their right mind would be bothered enough by seeing video of civilians, including children and ambulance workers, gunned down by U.S. helicopters to actually do something about it. :rolleyes: Really, regardless of what anyone thinks about transgender, the whole he/she did it because of gender identity is a disgusting charade meant to get people to take their eyes off of the horror of what was released. And frankly if transgender people are that so mentally unstable that if they can't get an operation they'll violate national security then that would be a good reason to keep them out of the military. Seriously. Say if Manning had just been too broke to pay for the operation and it wasn't covered by military insurance but it was allowed? Reason to violate national security? I don't think such a narrative is really all that helpful to the LGBT community that you seem to think it is. The "He/she was pissed at the evil being done in our name" makes him a hero in my eyes regardless of his desire to change genders. But if this was all about changing genders....well that's asinine and dangerous. If you're that stress, leave the military.

And we don't even know if this story is true. Sure, it's possible for news like this to leak out of a prison. But if a story like this gets made up, prison sure makes it hard to confirm or debunk it.

Looks like a classic case of deflection and distraction to me. And it's painfully obvious to me or anyone else who reads this thread that deflection and distraction will work against even us.

Expect hot breaking news about Snowden soon. Or maybe Assange--the Russians can't deny that one...

[thoughtomator]

@johnowe - A man who wants to cut his own balls off without a genuine medical rationale is objectively insane, and no amount of insisting otherwise and tantrum-throwing will change that. And if you think handing out neg reps is going to do anything but to call special attention to you in particular as a deeply-afflicted, PC-brainwashed idiot, you're insane, too.

[RJB]

Well the government wants to say where Manning can live, the way Manning can earn a living, etc... If the government wants that responsibility, then they should take the responsibility for Manning's medical desires, no matter how wacky.

(somewhat sarcastic)

[William Tell]

Oh boy, people are really will call Bradley whatever he wants, regardless of if it's true? Whats next? Calling Obama: Batman or Zeus or Thomas Jefferson if he wanted? Would you call Nicholas Cage 'Clark Gable'? Would you call me Steve Jobs?

Will you call Prince Charles an Eskimo even though you know better? Someone put 'he' in quotes in this thread when referring to Bradley Manning. Good grief, this is pathetic.

[presence]

Theological reasoning: God created men as men and women as women, I'd hold that its a sin (though not a crime) to try to change it.


http://www.cygnus-group.com/CIDM/bimodal.GIF

Then man invented estrogen mimicking chemicals... now we have:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Bimodal.png/220px-Bimodal.png

[jmdrake]

Oh boy, people are really will call Bradley whatever he wants, regardless of if it's true? Whats next? Calling Obama: Batman or Zeus or Thomas Jefferson if he wanted? Would you call Nicholas Cage 'Clark Gable'? Would you call me Steve Jobs?

Will you call Prince Charles an Eskimo even though you know better? Someone put 'he' in quotes in this thread when referring to Bradley Manning. Good grief, this is pathetic.

Proverbs 23:7 As a man thinketh in is heart so is he.

I'm going to start thinking I'm a millionaire.

[William Tell]

Proverbs 23:7 As a man thinketh in is heart so is he.

I'm going to start thinking I'm a millionaire.

Maybe some of these guys would call you one, but probably not.

[RJB]

I'm going to walk into the next Bilderberger meeting and tell them that I feel like I'm one of them. I'm sure security will embrace me for who I am.

[William Tell]

I'm going to walk into the next Bilderberger meeting and tell them that I feel like I'm one of them. I'm sure security will embrace me for who I am.

Yeah, they will 'embrace you' lol! :p

[jonhowe]

Right. Because nobody in their right mind would be bothered enough by seeing video of civilians, including children and ambulance workers, gunned down by U.S. helicopters to actually do something about it. :rolleyes: Really, regardless of what anyone thinks about transgender, the whole he/she did it because of gender identity is a disgusting charade meant to get people to take their eyes off of the horror of what was released. And frankly if transgender people are that so mentally unstable that if they can't get an operation they'll violate national security then that would be a good reason to keep them out of the military. Seriously. Say if Manning had just been too broke to pay for the operation and it wasn't covered by military insurance but it was allowed? Reason to violate national security? I don't think such a narrative is really all that helpful to the LGBT community that you seem to think it is. The "He/she was pissed at the evil being done in our name" makes him a hero in my eyes regardless of his desire to change genders. But if this was all about changing genders....well that's asinine and dangerous. If you're that stress, leave the military.

Read the transcripts. You clearly have not. I'm glad she didn't leave the military, btw, or we wouldnt have the leaks.


Unable to accept the facts of nature? So...if I decide I want to be genetically altered to be white, someone who is bothered by that is the one not accepting nature? Ummmm.....okay. On the SyFy TV show "Defiance" the "transvestites" are humans who want to be aliens. Some go so far as to cut the corneas off of alien cadavers (or in some cases living aliens) so that their eyes can look alien. Fiction I know, but I think it raises a very valid point. If at some point people decide they no longer really want to be people is that "natural"? I don't think the government should step in and stop such augmentation, but I don't think everyone is required to embrace it either. Recently there was a story of a woman who had a third breast surgically implanted like the mutant prostitute in the movie "Total Recall". I wouldn't interfere with that, but I don't call it natural either.

The boob story was a hoax. No one is "forcing" you to accept it, and I don't think anyone here, including me, wants the government to pay for it.


@johnowe - A man who wants to cut his own balls off without a genuine medical rationale is objectively insane, and no amount of insisting otherwise and tantrum-throwing will change that. And if you think handing out neg reps is going to do anything but to call special attention to you in particular as a deeply-afflicted, PC-brainwashed idiot, you're insane, too.

Another mental health expert, I'm glad we're surrounded. Leaving now to check into a nut house, because apparently being a decent human being makes me insane. Not FF, the guy who believes in magic written in bronze age books and applies them to modern times, me. I'm the crazy one for accepting that some peoples' sex differs from their gender, and for being ok with the idea of them using modern technology to remedy that. Sorry guys.



(P.S. Assuming there are historians in a couple of centuries, I'm glad I'm on the wrong side of this forum and the right side of history.)

[thoughtomator]

Another mental health expert, I'm glad we're surrounded. Leaving now to check into a nut house, because apparently being a decent human being makes me insane. Not FF, the guy who believes in magic written in bronze age books, me. I'm the crazy one for accepting that some people's sex differs from their gender, and being ok with the idea of them using modern technology to remedy that. Sorry guys.

Seriously, dude, if you have convinced yourself that deliberate self-mutilation of a biologically healthy human being is normal, natural, or good in any way for the well-being of an individual, there is something seriously wrong with your ability to think clearly.

Cutting his balls off and wearing a dress and makeup and taking estrogen and adopting a female name and everything else he can think of can't make him a woman, period. This is simply physically impossible to achieve. The most he can achieve is to be a mockery of a woman, and to say that this is the same as being a woman is grossly disrespectful of women in general.

[Dr.3D]

Sounds to me like these folks are more interested in rebellion against God than anything else. Seems they think, if God made me a man, I want to be a woman or perhaps the other way around.

[jmdrake]

Read the transcripts. You clearly have not. I'm glad she didn't leave the military, btw, or we wouldnt have the leaks.

I don't care to. Letting the world know about crimes against humanity being covered up by one's government should be considered a sacred human duty. There's no need to muddy the waters by "Well it's because he wanted to be a woman". In fact, if that's the case, that just makes me think such people aren't fit for the military.



The boob story was a hoax. No one is "forcing" you to accept it, and I don't think anyone here, including me, wants the government to pay for it.


Okay. Hoax or not, people alter their bodies in all sorts of unnatural ways.

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/85/8d/6c/858d6c4ccda8f6c3d30cfc762382a17a.jpg

Their right to do it doesn't make it natural. Again, if there was some gene therapy that could make me white I wouldn't take it. I should have a right to take it. And it wouldn't be wrong for someone else to think that wasn't a good idea. It's crazy that some in this movement have gone beyond "People should be free to do what they want to do" to "People should not be free to have their own opinions about what other people do."

Now I'm glad you don't want the government to pay for it. But if PFC Manning was a government employee who's salary wasn't enough to cover the surgery, how else was it going to be paid for other than being some kind of "health benefit"? (In other words, the government paying for it.) So the whole "Manning was persecuted by his gender identity issue and that's why he released the documents" argument is silly, transcripts or no transcripts. Whether he would have had to leave the military because the military frowned on transgender, or whether he would have had to leave the military to either find the money or the type of insurance that would cover the procedure, he still would have had to leave the military. But again, someone driven by gender identity to the point that that would be the main reason to release classified documents is unstable and shouldn't be in the military. I honestly don't believe that's the case. I bet if Bradley Manning were able to talk to the public unfiltered he would confirm that wasn't the case.

[The Free Hornet]

Well that story kinda kills the whole "Gender identity is genetic" argument.

Well, not an argument I made. Personally, I'm not sure "such-n-such was not a choice" is ever a good argument anyway.

That said, I would like medical opinions from people who believe in a single, unrepeatable case of resurrection after being dead for three days without the use of cryogenics two thousands years ago and documented about a hundred years after the facts in question.

That's a person who should be able to explain what's what.

[satchelmcqueen]

to your reply to me. you made my point with your answer. if YOU want to help manning pay for it then thats ok by me because its YOUR money.. but to use tax money for a sex change or any other thing that isnt medically needed like being sick, or something similar, then i dont think that just because someone wants hormones or any other thing should be allowed to get it. if thats the case, then all i would need to do to get titties on my knees would be to just do a crime, get arrested and then, while behind bars, start asking for the operation.
Threads like this make me embarrassed to be a member of this forum. Here we have a bunch of free (NOT in federal prison for exposing war crimes of the most powerful government on earth), full grown adults snickering like children at Manning's CLEAR emotional anguish. Have you not all read her chats from before and during the leaks? This person was harassed and terrorized by bible thumping morons like some of the very people in this thread to the point of near suicide. Seriously; some of you need to grow the hell up. Even if Chelsea Manning wasn't a hero, she's a human f-ing being. Show some damn respect for the other people on this planet.



:rolleyes: Yeah. That's it. The 'guy' just wants attention.





Have you even followed Manning's story at all? Sex/Gender related emotional stress was what set the whole thing in motion. The fact that people here are snickering at and casting doubt upon them is pathetic.



You weren't aware? Good, now you are, and that's all settled.



That makes you an ass.




Again, have you followed this story? This part is not a new twist added after the fact, this is what kicked off the leaks in the first place.

How can you be OPPOSED to someone's natural state of being? Are you opposed to the color blind, too? What about us lefties? (Also: Wow, I keep responding to your disgusting posts, not sure why.)




Sex change... on her own... in maximum security solitary... so you mean have her cut her balls off? Like the point of the whole thread? And don't expect others to pay??? We're paying to keep her in a heavily guarded federal cage for the next couple decades...

Let her out of jail and I'll pledge $100 to her sex change kick starter. But as long as she's behind bars, the choice is not hers.




... Did we all forget she's in federal prison? It's not like she can run to the bank, take out some money, and set an appointment with her doctor.

[cajuncocoa]

Yep. Keep arguing about who should pay for the surgery. Discrediting him/her is exactly what the Feds wanted. F*ckers.

[RJB]

Yep. Keep arguing about who should pay for the surgery. Discrediting him/her is exactly what the Feds wanted. F*ckers.

Exactly.

[jmdrake]

Well, not an argument I made. Personally, I'm not sure "such-n-such was not a choice" is ever a good argument anyway.

That said, I would like medical opinions from people who believe in a single, unrepeatable case of resurrection after being dead for three days without the use of cryogenics two thousands years ago and documented about a hundred years after the facts in question.

That's a person who should be able to explain what's what.

You're free to have your opinion that the resurrection of Jesus is a myth and FF is free to have his opinion that having a sex change is unnatural and a sin. Really, who cares? Everybody here seems in agreement that what Bradley/Chelsea Manning did was in the ultimate best interest of the country. And no. I don't believe the propaganda that it was because of "sex/gender related stress". Really, that's the argument the neocons want people to believe to distract from the real issue which is that the U.S. military was covering up war crimes.

[GunnyFreedom]

This is America. Someone should be free to carve their own body into chunks and plant themselves into the structure of a robot if that really what they want to do, and I should be free to say "that's a dumb idea" without getting stoned to death by the PC Police. Only reason I haven't gone off on it being a dumb idea, is that I suspect some psychological manipulation has taken place for the purpose of discrediting him, and so I tend to view him as a victim. I suspect that he may have formerly been struggling with the issue to some extent, but that it was used against him and amplified to the exponents in prison in the hopes of provoking the kind of behavior he is now exhibiting.

[Brian4Liberty]

There's absolutely no doubt Manning was severely abused in captivity. It may still be going on, for all I know.

There are a wide variety of articles from numerous credible publications detailing the harsh treatment he received. Just do a search for "treatment of Bradley Manning" and see what comes up.

Solitary confinement. Forced nudity. Constant bullying and threats. Held in irons anytime outside the cell. For years. It would be enough to drive anyone insane.

Here's an excerpt from a 2012 article from Wired.com that gives just a few of the sickening details:

http://www.wired.com/2012/08/general-manning-jail-treatment/

The government has once again violated the Constitution:


Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Now the question about whether denial of certain medical treatment is cruel or unusual is a murky area. Is it "medically necessary" for the life of the prisoner? Is it elective or cosmetic? One would have to categorize Manning's issue here as mental health care, but how is that handled? Do mentally ill prisoners receive drugs for their conditions?

One could argue that marijuana or alcohol are "medicines". Are those provided in prison?

Where is the cut-off point? Who decides? Tough questions to answer.

[Brian4Liberty]

Yep. Keep arguing about who should pay for the surgery. Discrediting him/her is exactly what the Feds wanted. F*ckers.

The government and Marxists get it both ways. They can demonize a transgender person on the one hand, and they can also demonize anyone who says anything remotely perceived as negative about that same person.

It's all about attacking the messenger, if that messenger has a message that is harmful to the statists. In this case the messenger was Manning.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

You weren't aware? Good, now you are, and that's all settled.

Sorry, I am not catering to anyones' fantasy, and it's frankly pathetic that you are. Bradley Manning has a penis and a Y chromosome, he's a male. Deal with it. I get that he wishes he wasn't, plenty of others wish they were taller, more handsome, smarter or whatever, but simply stating that you are doesn't change reality.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Yep. Keep arguing about who should pay for the surgery. Discrediting him/her is exactly what the Feds wanted. F*ckers.

Manning is the one asking for taxpayers to foot the bill for his purely unnecessary surgery. It is his own fault, unless you believe the government is hypnotizing him and forcing him to sue over this, or some such.

[Christian Liberty]

Manning is the one asking for taxpayers to foot the bill for his purely unnecessary surgery. It is his own fault, unless you believe the government is hypnotizing him and forcing him to sue over this, or some such.

I knew someone who killed himself over issues like these, and he wasn't being locked up for decades by the Feds for a heroic stand against tyranny. I don't buy the whole transgender thing either, but I can't even imagine how hard it would be for those involved. I say objectively that Bradley Manning is a man. That doesn't mean we should trivialize his plight.

And no, I don't think taxpayers should fund sex change surgery either. But then, I also don't think heroes should be locked up for exposing the crimes of their governments, and that's the far bigger issue to me.

[dillo]

Why does no one consider the possibility that he/she had been given psych drugs to drive him/her crazy?

Why bother giving someone drugs when most people can go equally as crazy from extended periods of isolation

[cajuncocoa]

Manning is the one asking for taxpayers to foot the bill for his purely unnecessary surgery. It is his own fault, unless you believe the government is hypnotizing him and forcing him to sue over this, or some such.
I think that's quite possible.

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

But they are not entitled to have the rest of us pay for it.


I respect your position.

But if Bradley/Chelsea Manning wants a set of fake tits and an inverted penis on the taxpayer dime, I suppose he's earned it.

It's the least we could do. Think about it. Throw in a fancy dress while we're at it, we ought...

[ChristianAnarchist]

Manning is the one asking for taxpayers to foot the bill for his purely unnecessary surgery. It is his own fault, unless you believe the government is hypnotizing him and forcing him to sue over this, or some such.

Not much of a fan of the sex-change idea myself but Manning is a hero for exposing the crap the goons were up to and he/she has been violated in so many ways by "the goons" that a successful civil suit (I know it ain't gonna happen) could result in millions in restitution at "tax fools" expense. I think that would pretty much cover any operation desired. Either way, the tax fools get to pay so what's the big deal??

[satchelmcqueen]

This is America. Someone should be free to carve their own body into chunks and plant themselves into the structure of a robot if that really what they want to do, and I should be free to say "that's a dumb idea" without getting stoned to death by the PC Police. Only reason I haven't gone off on it being a dumb idea, is that I suspect some psychological manipulation has taken place for the purpose of discrediting him, and so I tend to view him as a victim. I suspect that he may have formerly been struggling with the issue to some extent, but that it was used against him and amplified to the exponents in prison in the hopes of provoking the kind of behavior he is now exhibiting.you bring up a VERY good point here. something i didnt consider.

[Origanalist]

snip

(P.S. Assuming there are historians in a couple of centuries, I'm glad I'm on the wrong side of this forum and the right side of history.)

Self congratulatory mental masturbation. PC liberal talking points.

[Mani]

I have a bad feeling he or she is getting tortured....But not in the normal legal definition, but tortured nonetheless.

I'm sure the daily tortures are not doing much good to his psyche. Whatever gender issues he was battling prior to imprisonment, I'm sure they've mind fucked him to the point that he's completely lost, and then feed to the media what a crazy kook this guy is wanting the gov't to pay for his gender treatment.


Great way to distract the public is to turn him into a lost transgender freak who wants the gov't to take care of him. Kinda makes you forget what he did in the first place and what bad things he uncovered. Scrub scrub scrub..."Hey look it's a crazy guy that wants to be a girl and make you pay for it! Look at that folks!" Scrub Scrub Scrub those evil deeds away...

[jonhowe]

This is America. Someone should be free to carve their own body into chunks and plant themselves into the structure of a robot if that really what they want to do, and I should be free to say "that's a dumb idea" without getting stoned to death by the PC Police. Only reason I haven't gone off on it being a dumb idea, is that I suspect some psychological manipulation has taken place for the purpose of discrediting him, and so I tend to view him as a victim. I suspect that he may have formerly been struggling with the issue to some extent, but that it was used against him and amplified to the exponents in prison in the hopes of provoking the kind of behavior he is now exhibiting.

Of course her known gender issues were used against her. Even the supposedly freedom loving people on this forum are having trouble with it; imagine how some knuckle dragging jack-booted military prison guard is going to approach the issue.

[ChristianAnarchist]

What ever is happening to Manning, we should preface any comment with the term "hero". The whistleblower hero manning (fill in the blank...)

[Intoxiklown]

To replace "He / She", to save typing time, as well as avoiding falling into the labeling trap the media is trying to pass on regarding his gender, I propose Manning henceforth be regarded as shim

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Another mental health expert, I'm glad we're surrounded. Leaving now to check into a nut house, because apparently being a decent human being makes me insane. Not FF, the guy who believes in magic written in bronze age books and applies them to modern times, me. I'm the crazy one for accepting that some peoples' sex differs from their gender, and for being ok with the idea of them using modern technology to remedy that. Sorry guys.

(P.S. Assuming there are historians in a couple of centuries, I'm glad I'm on the wrong side of this forum and the right side of history.)

You know, you're not really making atheists look as pro-science as some of them like to squeal they are. Why are you so against simple biology, that states Manning is male? Why do you think if you 'think' you're something different, then you are? I really can't fathom how your brain works on this. If a 'furry' has, um, Species Identity Disorder, and says they're a fox, then we should call them a fox, right?

Spare the "right side of history in hundreds of years" stuff, Kreskin.

[dannno]

You know, you're not really making atheists look as pro-science as some of them like to squeal they are. Why are you so against simple biology, that states Manning is male? Why do you think if you 'think' you're something different, then you are? I really can't fathom how your brain works on this. If a 'furry' has, um, Species Identity Disorder, and says they're a fox, then we should call them a fox, right?

Spare the "right side of history in hundreds of years" stuff, Kreskin.

Biology, science, sexuality and gender are not binary.

[jllundqu]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to FreedomFanatic again.

How can one be opposed to transgenderism?? Many individuals are born with serious issues that don't need your religious mumbo jumbo judging them. I thought we got our rights as individuals (as Ron Paul often stated) and not because we belong to certain groups...

Does FF and JM not believe this?

[TheCount]

Of course her known gender issues were used against her. Even the supposedly freedom loving people on this forum are having trouble with it; imagine how some knuckle dragging jack-booted military prison guard is going to approach the issue.

She made it a central argument of her defense that she was emotionally unstable as a result of her sexuality and gender issues.

[jmdrake]

How can one be opposed to transgenderism?? Many individuals are born with serious issues that don't need your religious mumbo jumbo judging them. I thought we got our rights as individuals (as Ron Paul often stated) and not because we belong to certain groups...

Does FF and JM not believe this?

*sigh* Are you able to read? I clearly said that everyone has a right to do whatever but nobody has to approve of it. How can you not understand that? For the record vast majority of people who get sex change operations are not intergender. In fact someone arguing from your side of the argument posted an article about identical twins where one decided to have a sex change and the other didn't. No "religious mumbo jumbo" is needed to see that in that case no serious argument can be made that the twin that decided to get a sex change was "born with a serious issue." But so what? Seriously? Why do you feel the need to force your opinion on others? That's not what Dr. Paul is about.

One more time for people like you who don't understand freedom.

You have every right to do this to your body.

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/85/8d/6c/858d6c4ccda8f6c3d30cfc762382a17a.jpg

And someone has every right to have whatever opinion they wish about what you did.

Edit: And like most people in this thread, I believe this is all a big red herring. I don't know if the government has made this up, if Chelsey/Bradley has cracked under the pressure, or what. But only a complete moron and/or a neocon would believe the narrative that PFC Manning decided to leak the documents over "stress over his gender". Again, if that's the case then transgender people shouldn't be allowed in the military. But I don't believe that. I believe Manning released the documents because he was upset at the content of them.

[Christian Liberty]

To all the people who have mentioned my stance on this:

I think people should have the legal right to do whatever they want to their own bodies with regards to this stuff or anything else. I may not approve of it, but I'm not going to force them to do otherwise either.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

How can one be opposed to transgenderism??

Opposed, how? I am not for making a law to forbid an adult from choosing to become transgendered, I don't think anyone here supports that.

I draw the line, however, at using feminine pronouns (she, her, etc.) to describe a man, which Manning is. Hell, you can't even argue he's a woman because the surgery changed him yet. Manning, especially as of right now, is a male. Currently calling him a "her" is denying basic reality.

It's also hilarious how you refer to "religious mumbo-jumbo" while making this argument. Seriously, way to go dude. Make religious people seem sane next to the "logical" atheist that believes you can be anything you want to be, you just gotta believe. "I think I'm a woman, I think I'm a woman."

[jonhowe]

Opposed, how? I am not for making a law to forbid an adult from choosing to become transgendered, I don't think anyone here supports that.

I draw the line, however, at using feminine pronouns (she, her, etc.) to describe a man, which Manning is. Hell, you can't even argue he's a woman because the surgery changed him yet. Manning, especially as of right now, is a male. Currently calling him a "her" is denying basic reality.

It's also hilarious how you refer to "religious mumbo-jumbo" while making this argument. Seriously, way to go dude. Make religious people seem sane next to the "logical" atheist that believes you can be anything you want to be, you just gotta believe. "I think I'm a woman, I think I'm a woman."

No one thinks Manning is going to magically wish the penis away. There is a difference between one's sex and one's gender; that is the issue here. No one is arguing the Manning was born with female sex characteristics, but apparently she WAS born with female gender characteristics. You don't HAVE to use female pronouns if you don't want to, but purposefully doing the opposite is just rude. It'd be rude if this was just some random person, and it's even more so because this is a hero serving serious jail time for her actions we are talking about.

[jmdrake]

No one thinks Manning is going to magically wish the penis away. There is a difference between one's sex and one's gender; that is the issue here. No one is arguing the Manning was born with female sex characteristics, but apparently she WAS born with female gender characteristics. You don't HAVE to use female pronouns if you don't want to, but purposefully doing the opposite is just rude. It'd be rude if this was just some random person, and it's even more so because this is a hero serving serious jail time for her actions we are talking about.

Except you believe the only reason she did it was because she couldn't handle being a he which kinda takes away from the heroism a bit. Not because of the transgender issue, but "I'm having a hard time dealing with who I am" is a poor reason to violate military secrets. "The military is covering up something immoral and/or illegal" is a good reason to violate military secrets.

[TheCount]

Except you believe the only reason she did it was because she couldn't handle being a he which kinda takes away from the heroism a bit. Not because of the transgender issue, but "I'm having a hard time dealing with who I am" is a poor reason to violate military secrets. "The military is covering up something immoral and/or illegal" is a good reason to violate military secrets.

My understanding is that she didn't want to deploy in addition to all the gender/sexuality issues, and it was to 'get back' at the Army for deploying her. Was only a month into the deployment.

[Christian Liberty]

No one thinks Manning is going to magically wish the penis away. There is a difference between one's sex and one's gender; that is the issue here. No one is arguing the Manning was born with female sex characteristics, but apparently she WAS born with female gender characteristics. You don't HAVE to use female pronouns if you don't want to, but purposefully doing the opposite is just rude. It'd be rude if this was just some random person, and it's even more so because this is a hero serving serious jail time for her actions we are talking about.

HE is a hero. That doesn't mean he's a woman.


Except you believe the only reason she did it was because she couldn't handle being a he which kinda takes away from the heroism a bit. Not because of the transgender issue, but "I'm having a hard time dealing with who I am" is a poor reason to violate military secrets. "The military is covering up something immoral and/or illegal" is a good reason to violate military secrets.


My understanding is that she didn't want to deploy in addition to all the gender/sexuality issues, and it was to 'get back' at the Army for deploying her. Was only a month into the deployment.

Nobody knows WHY he did it, but the fact that there were war crimes happening is enough to convince me that Manning is a hero.

[fr33]

Well that story kinda kills the whole "Gender identity is genetic" argument.

I don't know what it is, why it's happening, and frankly it's very strange to me. I do have one friend that is in the process (or whatever you call it) of switching over to a female. His father did the same thing later in life. He's never done me wrong in any way. Just because I don't understand it, or even like that he's doing it, isn't a good enough reason for me to stop being a friend. He'll have to tolerate my non-pc way of talking about it (in good humor) though.

[jonhowe]

Except you believe the only reason she did it was because she couldn't handle being a he which kinda takes away from the heroism a bit. Not because of the transgender issue, but "I'm having a hard time dealing with who I am" is a poor reason to violate military secrets. "The military is covering up something immoral and/or illegal" is a good reason to violate military secrets.

I do not believe that is the only reason she did it and I don't think I said that. It was a major contributing factor to it, and almost certainly her emotional distress surrounding it lead to her being caught.


HE is a hero. That doesn't mean he's a woman.

You don't have to call her one if you don't want to; feel free to self identify as an ass.

[PRB]

hero turned troll? how exactly is cutting off an organ on yourself "threatening" anybody?

[PRB]

I do not believe that is the only reason she did it and I don't think I said that. It was a major contributing factor to it, and almost certainly her emotional distress surrounding it lead to her being caught.



You don't have to call her one if you don't want to; feel free to self identify as an ass.

you don't have to call me Michael Jordan if you don't want to.

[fr33]

you don't have to call me Michael Jordan if you don't want to.

You didn't have to make that post if you weren't a troll.

[jmdrake]

I don't know what it is, why it's happening, and frankly it's very strange to me. I do have one friend that is in the process (or whatever you call it) of switching over to a female. His father did the same thing later in life. He's never done me wrong in any way. Just because I don't understand it, or even like that he's doing it, isn't a good enough reason for me to stop being a friend. He'll have to tolerate my non-pc way of talking about it (in good humor) though.

+rep. I have a close relative who is either transitioning or has transitioned. He wasn't one of those "I want to be a girl" boys. He did go through a lot of crap as a kid and he has steadfastly refused to get any counseling for it. I know he's messed up in other ways and I feel that the sex change is more of a symptom than some expression of who he really is. That said I still love him and treat him with respect. My ex wife worked with a man who started transitioning after getting divorced. But he told her that if his ex wife would take him back he would marry her again. Now wouldn't that be screwed up? Bottom line, people have a right to do what they want. But nobody has a right to demand others think/feel they way they do about anything.

[PRB]

You didn't have to make that post if you weren't a troll.

You don't have to call me a troll if you don't want to.

[COpatriot]

He's locked up for telling the truth. Pure and simple.

I'm an atheist and I don't buy the whole transgender thing. That said, if you want to take a bunch of hormone treatments, mutilate your genitals, and look like something out of a horror movie, far be it from me to stop you. A local high school here voted some tranny dude as their homecoming queen. I could not help but laugh at the naïveté from both sides. Some people saw it as a sign of America's continuing moral decline while the other side saw it as this grand gesture of acceptance and understanding of transgender people. It's like everyone forgot what high school kids are like. They're mocking that person. The male students rallied support for their homecoming "queen" so they could turn their homecoming court into a circus freak show. I was in high school not too long ago and it's exactly what I would have done at that age.

[Christian Liberty]

You don't have to call her one if you don't want to; feel free to self identify as an ass.





What's wrong with being an ass?

[Dr.3D]

What's wrong with being an ass?
Yeah according to Matthew 21:5, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on an ass.

[PRB]

What's wrong with being an ass?

nothing, which is why you should feel free to be one.